LOL!

They won't tell you the location until the date of the meeting? Sounds like a Muslim rave party to me.

Imagine the CAIR reaction,if some christian leader would make such a comment about destroying Mecca....
Adela,USA.

Dear Mr. Spencer,
I am a Muslim by birth, but quite concerned that Islam is finally about to implode by its own weight of agglomerating ball of stupidity. The reason is the Muslims denegrated their most progressive philosopher of Muslims, Ibn Rushed who 800 years ago who urged believers to let commonsense and logic prevail even in religion. Muslims made him a non-person and embraced a madman Imam Ghazaly(actually lost his mind at 38) as their hero philosopher, thinker who cemented Islam into a religion of legalized lying. He is the sweetheart of especially the Sunni faction of Islam. I can send you the exact quotation. He was the the antithesis of Ibn Rushd. Ghazaly is also "credited" establishing the criteria of an obedient wife by admonition for women to keep men's sexual appetite satisfied "to submit even if she is in the middle of cooking". Such luminaries of Sunni Muslims did not have the decency ofadmonishing Muslim men to be inteligent husbands and be better judge of the circumstances of the moment rather than being a sexual animals.

Ibn Rushed was followed by Western thinkers and that's why West is Advanced. The Muslims are now suffering from the truth of "Use It or Lose It". They have divorced commonsense for so long that that they have lost it altogether and for good. Muslims have mastered the art of never DEBATING any issue, just listen to the sermons from Imams, come in like mules and leave the mosques like mules, no gain from the mosques. They are intellectually emasculated lot because of terrorizing picture of Hell conjured up in Quraan and invoked even for as little as children wasting food in dinner gatherings as is the practice of Imam Daoudi at Charleston mosque in West Virginia.

But the problem with the contents of your website is that you are on the opposite extreme of Muslims which is equally obnoxious. You don't seem to have conveniently noticed the tolerating part of Islam, the veneration of Mary and Jesus, even testifying that "those who follow Jesus will be given pre-eminence until the day of judgement" (Surah Aal-i-Imran, verses 52 - 55).

The whole difference is when muscle ruled the world, Muslims ruled. But now when brain is to rule the world, Muslims are the losers.

Dear Mr. Ashraf,

Thank you for your message. Actually I am well aware of "the tolerating part of Islam." Unfortunately, however, "the veneration of Mary and Jesus" to which you refer and your quotation of Sura 3:52-55 has nothing to do with tolerance of actual Christians in the world today, who are considered to be accursed by Allah for worshipping Jesus as the Son of God ("the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them" At-Tauba, verse 30 -- Sura 9:30). The "tolerating part of Islam" has meant for Christians throughout history discrimination, humiliation, and worse -- NEVER equality of rights and dignity with Muslims -- in accord with the command that Jews and Christians "pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (At-Tauba verse 29). This is a historical fact with abundant documentation from many countries around the world. For details I refer you to my own books and those of the great historian Bat Ye'or. And above all I invite you to dare to acknowledge these historical and present-day injustices, which few Muslims have been willing to do, and denounce them.

Cordially,
Robert Spencer

To Mohammad Ashraf: I'd just like to know if you can tell me how many Muslims you have access to or come in contact on any given day.

Can you please let me know?

Thanks,

D.C. Watson

Mohammad, I reviewed your comments to Mr. Spencer. The "tolerating" part of Islam you speak of shouldn't have to be searched for or sought out by us. It's not our responsibility to seek and find portion of Islam out and embrace it.

I opine that it's every Muslim's true duty to expose this "tolerant" side. It's also the responsibility of all Muslims to denounce, and stamp out Islamic extremism.

Radical Islam has made its agenda very clear. To wipe out the West. As far as being obnoxious goes, Islamic radicals are the most intolerant, intrusive, jingoistic, obnoxious members of the human race.

This is why I asked you how many Muslims you are in contact with, because if they want to be respected and accepted, their silence with regard to terrorism is certainly not helping their cause. Any more attacks to our nation are going to result in Muslims, tolerant or not, paying the price for their Islamic radical brothers and their activity.

It's far past time for "moderate Islam" to get off their asses and clean their own mess up. That mess being Usama Bin Laden and his horde of murderous gypsies. We want peace, but we'll win war. There is NO paradise with 72 virgins waiting on senseless murderers. All Muslims need to know this. It's a load of crap.

This isn't a "hate site". We are not Islamophobes, as the moron at CAIR likes to label everyone that thinks differently than Islamists do. There are people on this site that know more about the Koran/Qur'an that most Muslims do.

I think we're all tired of having our intelligence insulted by Imams and their supporters. Remember, if they attack us, we attack them.....no body wants that, but we'll do what we must, and radical Islam's punishment will spill over into the entire religion.

D.C. Watson, Ohio USA

Messrs Spencer & Nathan,
Thank you gentlemen. If the aim is to pursue commonsense, our discourse may achieve something good because we are coming from different backgrounds but endeavoring to meet at the point of rationality.
The human conflict is a multifactorial phenomenon. Apart from religious dogmas, it the vested interests (clegy of previous religions torturing and crucifying the newer voices). If anyone claimed to be another Prophet now, most likely Muslims would persecute or crucify him like Jews did to Christ.
With a Masters degree in chemical engineering and obtaining a Naturopathic Physician's qualification, I feel very comfortable with a natural gravitation towards scientific logic and commonsense.
It simply looks the Prophets did their part in their times of human knowledge and understanding as the best way to make humans behave better, but with lessons learnt from the previous experiences (because at some point humans must have engaged in sex without regard to who is a brother or a sister, and at Qur'an's time the prohibited relations were defined). There do seem to be many contradictions in the Holy books but some deeply meaningful revelations too of the order of of modern times' scientific revelations of Einstein - the Theory of Relativity(that's why none of the books should be burned out of hand, otherwise I would have thought the same as Nathan). And the poor Prophets only invited cruelty fordoing the thinking.
Prophet Muhammad's life was full of atrocities and persecution against him - Bedouines, Jews & Christians.
Commonsense tells us if he did practice turning the other cheek and not change his doctrine, he would not have beyond age 33 also like Jesus.
The haphazard sequence of Qur'an does suggest that Prophet Muhammad was tp answer questions from right and left most of the time. Rather than consistency, rhyming was more of the ensnaring quality of expressions, an asset Prophet Muhammad had. The urdu poetry 'ghazal' is a direct cultural derivation of Qur'anic pattern.
Coming to the problems I as a scientist, fascinated by the beauty of God's climax of creation - the human body's functions, I have severe reservation about CONTRADICTIONS anywhere, in Bible, Qur'an etc. God's words cannot/ must not be ambiguous.
I am very disappointed to have a list of about 20 contradictions in Qur'an, but equally I cannot imagine if Christ was born today the same way (Holy conception but dirty human vaginal delivery) the scientific age street wise Christians would accept the enigmatical story built after Holy Mary stays with her cousin Sarah for three months. There was NO REASON God should not have used other more convincing ways of lowering His 'son' twinkling down from the sky slowly or sprouting slowly out of a trunk of a tree etc. rather than jeopardizing a woman's reputation (a Jewish friend of mine even 2000 years later said "Oh, Jesus was son of Joseph, born out of wedlock). I for one have a real struggle with that even though Qur'an says roughly and briefly what Bible described earlier.

As for wars, killing, conquering, history is full with it. Alexander the Great conquered land just because it was there (my place of birth The Indus Valley) finally taught him a lesson he had never learned anywhere else. As the Syrian born Imam at Charleston, WV states the justification of conquring adjacent lands by Arabs that they lay in the way to where Muslims wanted to send/ spread 'the message' to (When I asked him "Should Irael not have the same right today to go beyond Golan heights?", "But today we have other means, radio, television" he said (this is the typical Arab slick culture. While the incessantly peaceful Muhammad had to escape Mecca to save his life (he was not a fighting man then) and could return only with a big human contingent came prepared to fight, that time his old time enemies did not put up a fight. It would been another tragedy if Muhammad let himself be crucified by Jews, more likely by Christians (the more imediate to feel challenged by the message.

Violence: It is a shameful fact of history that three out of four "companion" successors of Prophet Muhammad were murdered by internal intrigues, the last one in a mosque - All a result of lack of prudence in formally naming a successor, carrying on the policy of appeasement of "companions" policy for too long on part of the Prophet. The result: His "companions" schemed like foxes and fought like dogs. The ultimate result: Prophet's own family traveling as a missionary caravan to Koofah was almost entirely massacred by Syrian Muslims, the "believers" in Muhammad's own religion. It happened at Karbala, the town in international news again and the center of mass killing in the mosques again. That massacring of Prophet's family by Syrian Muslims, an "honor" that no other nation in the world has ever "earned", was the flash point of todays worldwide phenomenon of Sunni/ Shiia animosity. So murdering even other Muslims even in the places of their worship while knelt down in prayers is the venom consuming Muslims. Have Jews or Christians ever massacred other bretheren in synagoges, churches? Alas, violence is so germane to Muslims' psyche.
This is not to say that there is no blood on Christians' sleeves, or America does not have blood on its sleeves of so many nations, countries.
On Jihad, what America is doing today in the world is a jihad too, it just is not in Western dictionany. Any American soldiers being killed on others' soils, when they get attacked, they are eulogized by George Bush just as the Palestinian mother eulogised her own childrens as martyres in thier actions against
On the Jewish/Palestinian question, many months ago, I sent a note to the Palestininan born President of Islamic Association of WV about the contradiction/ in sensitivity of "God taket the land from whover He wishes, and God giveth the land whoever He wants", he had no answer until today. Why must God e so arbitrary?

Unnecessary stationing of American sildiers after 1991 on Saudi soil only one hour's drive from Saudi capitol was enough to enrage 15 out of 19 highjackers to commit suicidal crash on twin towers. Conquring Iraq now under false pretexts for the sake of oil will create one more nation enimical against the West. These are more plolitical than apparently religious struggles. Yes the religious fervance has been invoked by the war mongerers, including Saddam when he was loosing.

Mass killing: There has not been a more colossal mass murdering than atom bombs on Japan when the atom bombs were invented not as a deterrant, but to be used and actually dropped. So the West has yellow blood on its sleeves too.

I think only a God-fearing honesty of purpose can lead us to salvation for humanity, not a dishonest monkey business, even cheating our own nations by leading with lying.
Sincerely,
Ashraf

First.....Japan....Pearl Harbor came before Hiroshima and Nagasaki....Second.....American Jihad? Call it what you will, but it too began after 9/11/2001.

You are quite obviously educated, Muhammad. However, you still seem to have that "Justify the killings" mentalitiy I see from many Muslim apologists.

Please utilize your God given intelligence to educate your fellow Muslims that either this terrorism is stamped out by Islam, or eventually through any channel necessary, Islam, which by the way is still the minority religion, will be stamped out.

Radical Islam has chosen the wrong nation to try. They may have done some damage to our relationship with Spain, but if it hits the streets here, the radicals are going to be destroyed. And six million Muslims along with CAIR won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

Please, I ask you. Educate your people, before all of you pay the penalty for Radical Islam. Millions of Americans are ready to destroy Islam as a whole. Don't kid yourself. I beleive in freedom of religion, as long as that religion doesn't blow up my fellow Christians and Americans. That type of action is not religious, it's more like that of a cult.

D.C.

Dear Mr. Watson.

I can tell You the Americans are not alone. Millions of Europeans are ready too. We are tired of the radical muslims - in any ways. From their
women who demonstrate their radical belive by wearing their od clothing in common space to their outcry for special treatment.
They want respecpt - and they give despecpt.
They want wellfare - and they dont work.
Most of the Danish Women are working.And the muslims are looking at the Danish women as are we hores, stupid and dhimmi.
When I look at my grandchildren- I feel sorrow .Because we have opened the gate for the radical muslims -and they will be a pest for the comming generations. What have we done!

Danish women, Whores? I don't think so.

Danish women are some of the most goregous, beautiful women on God's green earth. Thank you for this post, because Radical Islam needs to be surrounded, and smothered.

Europe used to be feared by all, especially the Soviet Bloc. Now, Islamists look at Europe as fair game. Extremism has to be stomped out.
Many of the Muslim women here are also on welfare while trying to mass breed. They don't work, or even speak our language.

Keep up the fight, and don't let them look down their noses at you. Next time they do, ask them what the hell they're looking at. Although, they may not understand a word you're saying.

D.C.

Mr. Ashraf,

Comments and questions.

Yes, we dropped two atomic bombs on Japan - in a war we did not start. We also dropped warning leaflets beforehand, giving the Japanese government time to surrender if it chose. The Germans and the Japanese both had atomic bomb projects going on. We got there first.

"Mass killing: There has not been a more colossal mass murdering than atom bombs on Japan ..."

Not true. Over twice as many Chinese died (over 360,000, mostly civilians and prisoners) during what the history books now call 'The Rape of Nanking" as the combined death toll of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Of course, that was done over a period of about 4 months with bayonets, swords, and guns. So I guess it is more "acceptable".

Or The Holocaust - over 6 million Jews, gypsies, and other undesireables.

Or the genocide in Ruanda - over 500,000 dead.

"Unnecessary stationing of American sildiers after 1991 on Saudi soil only one hour's drive from Saudi capitol was enough to enrage 15 out of 19 highjackers to commit suicidal crash on twin towers." That's also not true. Osama bin Ladin did not want US troops in Saudi Arabia eeven before the (First?) Gulf War. His goal has always been to destabilize the royal family of Saudi Arabia so he could take over. It's all about power.

"Conquring Iraq now under false pretexts for the sake of oil..." In 1991, we could have taken the Saudi, Kuwaiti, and Iraqi oilfields. Who could have stopped us?

Enough history. Now two questions.

How do you think the Muslim world would react to a picture similar to the one above based on the mosque in Mecca?

My second question should be easy for an engineer to answer: Is the Qur'an completely true? Yes or no?

jay

To Mr. Spencer/ Nathan/ Watson
Would it not be great if w could discuss the issues on C-SPAN and invite someone from conservative Islamic community too.

As an independent thinking Muslim I can tell you that Islam's and Muslims' problems are manifold. Here is a short list (taken from the material I am compiling for a book):

1: Under the threat of horrifying decription of Hell (even worse than that described in Bible) Muslims are told to believe, and not question. But sadly another place God is resentfully asking "Why don't people think upon Qur'an. Between such contradiction, where do you go? So contradictions are even a worse problem than those in Bible, because stage by stage, Prophets and Holy books were made to deal more and more issues of human life. So the more you speak/ delve in the more questions arise!

2: "Hadiths" is most notoriously manipulated source of "guidance" the poor Muslims which have been created out of culture of lies devised by the manipulative "companion" successors of Prophet Muhammad (the political struggle initiated immediately at the demise of Prophet ensued huge integrity problems among Muslims such that three out of four "companions" of the Prophet were mudered by internal intrigues, and within a generation's time span, almost entire family of Prophet Muhammad was massacred by Syrian Muslims at Karbala (again in news these days) enrout to preaching mission in a caravan of 72 including women and children. The venomous vehemence of that incident is mourned in the world even today after 1400 years the mention of which gives a nasty squirm to clergy (Imams) hailing from Syria. The dead body of the murdered leader of the entourage Muhammad's own grandson Hussein was intently trampled by horses' hoofs so as to break every bone in the body, his head severed and carried atop a spear with women of that family made to follow and travel behind all the way to Damascus.
3: Unfortunately the Sunni majority of Muslims is so wedded to the writings of Imam Ghazaly who "wrote the book" in lying and deception in achieving anything "good" according to interpretation of the do-gooder. The most involved with the fundamentalists and extrenists in Islam is the Hadiths (Sayings of the Prophet-mostly attributed to him by deception to serve the ends of political aspirants starting with his demise). Any book of Hadith is held so close to Qur'an as if it were inseparable, and the hanging threat of Hellfire has through centuries emasculated Muslims keeping them from even questioning some of most ridiculous 'sayings' attributed to the Prophet. Ask Imam Daoudi of Charleston, WV mosque, hailing from the culture of murderers of Muhammad's family any question about his favourite hadith insinuating "a miracle of the Prophet" -"Milking of the Unmarried sheep" (I may give the details of this another time) his ultimate default answer is "Well, that's hadith!" How in the world can you expect intelligence from such crowd?
4: The orthodox Muslims fancy of feeling exulted by carrying on even in this day and age the puported acts of the Prophet (called 'Sunnah') in those pre-medieval times of social, political environment. They imagine they can fit them in today's commerce, politics, social activities. What can you do to deal with such brains?

I am simply frustrated, folks.
Sincerely,
Ashraf

Vivi,

I understand what your talking about. The contradiction of muslims and perversion is amazing. In my job I can see much of the traffic from the Middle East and what they access on the inter net. I would have to say that their lust for pornography is not any less the the rest of the world. Though they would have us believe they are above this vise.

It is well documented that the Jihadist who attacked on 9/11 spent the night before visiting Nude dancing clubs and other places most Americans would never visit.

Islams view of woman is completely disgusting. Woman are absolutely beautiful and God has set down the law for the way they are to be viewed and treated. The Quran misses the mark completely.

Ashraf, we are frustrated too.. That's why it's important to teach Muslims, and admit it, many of whom haven't read the Koran because of illiteracy, that life is a gift from God.

That killing innocent people because they are of a different faith is wrong, and is punishable by a trip to hell. Educated Muslims have got to stand up and take charge of this mess. They're is no other peaceful option. Brainwashed Muslims and Muslim converts need to be cleansed.

Islam will suffer greatly if this doesn't happen. Hate preaching Imams should not only be removed from the mosques, but excommunicated from this "peaceful religion" as soon as they're identified.

The facade is over with. Islam is not looked at as peaceful because no one of Muslim faith stands forward and fights terrorism. They don't even speak out against it, for fear of being considered unfaithful to Islam, which is a crock.

One thing that Muslims could do right from the start is to banish the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR). The reasons for this are quite clear, and well documented.

Their use of the word "Islamophobe" warrants one to vomit. They are not a group that Moderate Muslims want as their speaking body. They advertised on their site for Muslims to contact American lawmakers to protest the banning of hijabs in France, where Muslims marched in protest of the banning of their headgear.

Waste of time, everyone's time. However, have they marched in protest of terrorism? Hell no they haven't. Hamas would be very unhappy with them for doing something such as that. I understand your frustration. I'd be humiliated to be a part of a religion that acts this way.

Not being hypocritical, I am embarrassed and ashamed of these Catholic priests and their molestation crimes. They should be punished to the full extent of the law. Now, with that being said, how about some Muslims start ridding the world of the gypsy fungus known as Radical Islamic jihad.

Will you help? or not?

Ashraf,

some simple questions.

Do you recognize a Jewish Israel as a lagitimate country?

Do you see the act of suicide bombings against Israel or any other country as a simple murder?

Do you beleive the war on terrorism is actually a crusade against Islam?

Do you believe that Islam is the only religion that has a right to exist?

Do you believe the west would be better as a controled Islamic state?

Dear Mr. Ashraf - all tthe quotes from the Koran and historical citings will not change our minds about Islam. Looking at the BIG picture, we see Islam as an oppressive, totalitarian religion. The evidence is abundant throughout the world. If you want to demonstrate that we are incorrect about our assessment, immediate, active reform if necessary. If so-called moderate Muslims are silent and allow the radicals to proceed, they are giving tacit approval of the violence that you verbally forswear.

What are YOU, Mr. Ashraf, going to do about it? I mean, what are you doing about it NOW? I can probably bet my bottom dollar that all you are doing is reproaching us and not taking the necessary steps to make any changes in your local or worldwide Muslim community.

Thank you for your post.