A "danger for the foreseeable future"? What does George Tenet mean? Does he think that somehow the central tenets of Islam will be changed, in ten years, or twenty? And just how does he propose to foster that change? Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Laskar Jihad, Jaish-e-Mohammed, and a thousand other groups, named and nameless, will always be a danger as long as Islam exists.

The best one can do is to

1) minimize the danger by stopping Muslim migration to the dar al-Harb (and expelling as many Muslims as can legally be achieved -- not least by examining whether the loyalty oath that new citizens are required to take can logically be squared with the ideology of Islam, that necessarily forbids real loyalty to an Infidel nation-state and requires only one kind of loyalty -- to Islam and fellow Muslims. Hence all those who are Believers, and who take the oath of loyalty, are almost without question, falsely swearing their allegiance. This is an unpleasant matter to raise but it happens to be both true and relevant.

2) suppress the economic weapon -- used to buy weaponry, to bribe diplomats, jouranlists, etc. (Saddam Hussein's subveentions were the wind-swept tip of the sand dune)-- by taxing oil. Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., Kuwait, Iran, Algeria, Iraq all have acquired major weaponry, and pushed the Muslim agenda (hardly limited to the Jihad against Israel, though that is what we in the West have been led to believe is their sole aim, nicely tarted up for public consumption as "justice for the (recently-fabricated) Palestinian people"). Saudi Arabia will not, and cannot, stop the support of many of its people, even if it really wanted to (and it does not) for mosques and madrasas everywhere. Muslims cannot be expected to stop supporting the spread of Islam -- it is central to the faith. And the spread of Islam itself, not terrorism alone, represents a threat to the political, economic, intellectual, and moral wellbeing to all Infidels -- and even, one must suggest, to those people born into Islam, and who, in their own beings, feel they cannot escape from its smothering embrace.

3) deprive all Muslim states of major weaponry. It is ludicrous to become preoccupied with winning "hearts and minds" -- stony hearts, primitive minds -- in Iraq, and somehow forgetting to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program, which is far more dangerous to Infidel interests than anything that can now happen in Iraq. Stop all military aid to Egypt; do not reward Pakistan with F-16s but make sure that Musharraf understands that, given what A. Q. Khan and the Pakistani military have done, he is lucky to be allowed by the Americans to keep any of his weaponry beyond the level of a rifle or a jeep -- which, come to think of it, is all any Muslim state needs to suppress its local version of Al Qaeda.

4) play plangently on the theme of "Islam as a vehicle of Arab imperialism" especially among those non-Arab populations that have felt most keenly that imperialism. Let the Iranians rediscover their pre-Islamic roots; remind them constantly of how the PLO was instrumental in inflicting Khomeini upon them. Tie it to the long history of Arab-Persian hatred. Do nothing to discourage resentment, and implicate, where necessary, all of Persian history -- not forgetting the tale of Firdousi, who is said to have saved Persian from being replaced by Arabic through the quality of his Shahnameh. As with the Turks, who are also quick to separate themselves, for Western visitors, from "the Arabs," do whatever it takes to encourage such sentiments in Iran. Stress the superiority of Persian civilization to that of the desert Arabs.

5) similarly, in Afghanistan stress the cult of Sheikh Massoud -- killed by Al Qaeda. A postage stamp is not enough; create a cult of personality around this figure that will carry with it an implicit message against the Muslim Arabs who manipulate and exploit non-Muslim Arabs for their own ends. Ditto with Indonesia. There are local forces, within each of these countries, that realize Islam must be tamed, just as Ataturk came to that conclusion, but are unsure how to do it. Help them to make the case in each of their countries, to go against the idea of the umma, the Muslim community. Some of them know it is for their own good, for the war that Islam has always carried within it, is now out in the open, and the Infidel world is losing patience. It will not be the mixture as before, not even in Western Europe.

Hugh,

Wonderful policy critique! The only thing that I can add is that we (the US), at least, must reduce our consumption of foreign oil by 1/3. I am positive that we can do this within a relatively short time by using our ingenuity and need not cause major economic disruption.

Chop the Saudis, our REAL enemies off at the knees!

The free world will always be on the defensive with only reaction to attacts as an option unless we fing a way to go on the offence. I suggest that we advise al muslim countries that if another terrorest attact occures we will target one of their leaders palaces and after 24 hour notice destroy it and if it doesnt stop we will keep picking muslim targets until they are back to living in tents. If they harm ou citisens in their countries we will react a la Iraq. In the meantimewe will offer all the aide we can to help these countries promote free enterprise and jobs for their people . John Duckworth

Total security can not be achieved or even approached in an open society. There are measures that can be taken that would preserve our freedoms and yet give us a small measure of security but they are not politically possible. Taking the fight to the enemy is one course of action and may be the only option we have outside of surrender. Islamic maddrases are turning out hate filled jihadists by the tens of thousands. These enjoy the support and protection of the more moderate population of Muslims. In this view our future does not look bright. I would rather take my chances of dieing in a terrorist attack than give up my freedoms.

Spain will recover, they have not pulled their troops or planning to, all they said is that they will think about it. Nothing more

hugh,

you would have fit in well in 1950's-1960's cia...

to bad it was a organization filled with and run by if tried criminals and former gestapo....

your methods have failed in the past and will fail again... you cannot solve the solution by enforcing oppressive restrictions on a ethnic and religous group nor by manipulating these people as if they where subhuman... (and by these people i mean the majority middle eastern and muslim population not the minority of who are jihadi's)

and for the dimwit who advised bombing the govt buildings and then later the civilian populace in the middle east as retaliation for a terrorist attack ... and the countries are going to help us after that... you need to learn something about diplomacy and foreign policy....

Joseph,

You tell me why it is ok for them to bomb Military and civilian targets at will. But if we even hint of doing the same we are dimwitted hate filled war mongering Nazi's.

Joey - We all understand that the Jihadists will not stop their unrelenting attack on our civilization. (At least, any informed person with half a brain understands.) And, they must understand that we, unlike some others, will never cave in. No policy change will ameliorate their hatred. They hate us because we exist. Period!

We dislike them because of their actions and because we now know that wish to include us in the Caliphate. (You didn't think we could figure that out, did you?) No chance, lost of luck!

Go to their websites and tell them to stop. Tell them that their policies ae unacceptable. Peace and tolerance are a two-way street. Throw a bomb at me, and I'll be sure to lob one back.

Joey, Hugh has more knowledge of Islam and their tactics in his middle finger than you have in your entire person.

He is one of many on here that can make people like you look like an ass without you even knowing it's happening to you. I just want to know how in the world you can see to type this garbage you send to this great site when your head is in buried in the sand.

Are you the European poster boy for Preparation H?

Respectfully not,

D.C.

how do you honestly think that we can win a "war on terrorism" by bombing inocent people? just because our enemys do it does not mean that it is acceptable to respond in the same manner. how many muslims do you think actually spend all there time wishing for and trying to create the new caliphate i suspect it is not many. though i bet if you drop a bomb on the ayatolah's house in iran i bet it would be alot more....

does anyone actually socialize with muslims here maybe your perspective would change if you actually had friendly relations with someone who is middle eastern on practices islam.

As our culture dives deeper and deeper into
sin and perverseness (I live in Multnomah County, OR where the homosexual marriage licenses continue to be issued) Al Queda and their friends get bolder and bolder. Could there be a direct correlation here?
In the book of Judges, the enemies of Israel got stronger and Israel got weaker as Israel fell into disobedience.

If the rats behave like needles and hide in haystacks, then I guess the haystack will need to be destroyed. The innocent or uninvolved will need to move away from the haystack to avoid destruction.

Since unlike our enemy, we are civilized, we will most likely give them time to evacuate before the needles, and the haystacks are vaporized.

Nice try Joseph.

In this war of will between Islamofacists and civilization the most troubling issue is that mainstream Muslims around the world refuse to "clean their own house" of murdering terrorists. Their silence and inaction are revealing.

Ordinary Muslims may not be actively pursuing the new Caliphate but they also are not turning the Islamofacists in to their local police.

By example, the American people would never tolerate Christian terrorists inciting hatred for Muslims and blowing up innocent civilins around the world. Nor would any other civilized people.

Civilization has no recourse other than tracking down and exterminating these sociopathic killers and the national leaders who give them sustenance.

Civilized people of the world have a moral obligation to personally fight terror.

Lugh Lampfhota

Bruce,

You make a good point. But I do not believe it is the moral majority of this country that is falling into disobedience. To me it seems it is only a very vocal immoral minority.

Our own left wing media outlets perpetrate the lie, and unfriendly outside entities are very happy to oblige in spreading it. Both would have it thought by the world that we are self-indulgent immoral people. This simply is not the case.

When the moral majority gets their voice and says enough is enough then our image will change. Will it make a difference to islamofacist? I do not believe so. We are so far away in ideology I do not believe we can find common ground. A winner take all war is the only way I see this being resolved.

"Islam should be scrutinized and identified as an expansionist totalitarian theocracy that is hostile to all who do not adhere to its principles."

Yaliqe, welcome to http://www.faithfreedom.org/ , where ex-muslims like Ali Sina are doing just that.

As a matter of fact, we arguably won WWII by bombing innocents. The Japanese leadership had a "we love death more than you love life" ideology and had substantial support from the population. The numerous atrocities had brought out our Jacksonian heritedge to say "We will simply kill you all unless you surrender unconditionally."

Some people question whether there might have been another way, but it definitely worked. We could do it today. Literally one day, today. Not necessarily that we SHOULD, but we COULD. Sufficient determination at less-extreme methods would be sufficient (and far more palatable), if we really mean it.

Part of the problem is that the evil of Leftism has weakened our resolve to fight a crusade. After June 1941, the USSR was (nominally) on our side, so the left dutifully followed instructions and supported the war. Today, Marxists and their kin in their alliance with our enemies (ANY enemy is automatically their friend) poison our society into weakness. You can see that in Europe already.

If we listen to the transies and pomos, we might well have no choice in the future but to kill 1 billion innocent people or be killed ourselves.

Hugh:

I agree with you totally. I have been saying what you wrote, for over 30 years. This war is not a matter of race, it is a matter of an ideology that is fascist to its core but masquerades as a religion. I have only one misgiving. Expellimg Muslims ould be tantamount to ethnic cleansing and leads us into a moral quagmire. I would much prefer to exchange Muslims in the West for the terribly persecuted Christians in Islamic nations. No ethnic cleansing, no moral quagmire. Besides exchange of populations is legitimate in legal terms and has been an option that has been excercised; India-Pakistan, Greece-Turkey,Eritrea-Ethiopia, Cyprus.

Iran is the nation to watch. Iranians are keenly aware that their once great civilisation, once a match for the Greeks, was destroyed by the barbarian hordes from the desert. Not for the first time in history that this has happened. But we should not assist the Iranians in any material way. The Iranians have to get so fed up with the mullahs, that they not only get rid of them but the ideology that sustains the mullahs. I'm hoping for a situation similar to what happened in eastern Europe; the destruction of just not communism but the ideology of Marxism as well.

---------------

Now to Joseph, who would not like us to reciprocate the actions of the enemy. A policy such as yours, gives an immediate strategic and tactical advantage to the Jihadis, who after all are waging the Jihad on behalf of the Ummah. Killing the Jihadis is no good, as they are absolutely certain of getting 72 virgins.
At some point we will have to atke acytion against the Ummah. If we dont, then t allows the Jihadis to wage war on us civilians, without any fear of concommitant action against their own supporting infrastructure. That is a sure fire way to hand the enemy an advantage that he would ruthlessly exploit.
Remember what Churchill said after the Blitz of London, " The Nazis have sown the wind, they will now reap the whilwind". By this he did not mean that, only the mansions of top Nazis would be subject to RAF attention.

Joey, you are a mass of unconsidered contradictions. In the first post you advocate taking the fight to the enemy. Where, exactly would you do that? Obviously not Europe, where you say you would rather be blown apart than risk any of your liberties. And you object to sending troops to the Middle East. So where would you fight?

Next, you explain that jihadis have the support and protection of more "moderate" Muslims. In your next post you say that the moderate Muslim majority must not have oppressive restricions placed on them. Which is it Joey? Do the moderates support the jihadis or should we treat them as enlightened friends? You don't know, but you do manage to call another poster a "dimwit". Joey, I believe it takes one to know one.

Finally, you ask if anyone knows any Muslims. I do, Joey. Do you? Because your views on the moderates seem schizophrenic, I wonder if you do. But wait, you seem to display the same lack of critical reasoning skills as many Muslims. Perhaps you do know them after all. cheers joey, and don't let logic or consistency cloud your views.

You are right to note that Kerry is the getting the appeaser vote. He has already been endorsed by Spain's Mr. Bean, er....Zapatero. And now he was endorsed by the wildly anti-semitic former leader of Malaysia, Mahathir. In fact Mahathir manages to endorse Kerry and take a paranoid, anti-jewish line in the same statement!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/18/122934.shtml

Kerry doesn't want it to be known that he has friends like these, so he quickly played down the fact that he is the candidate of appeasement and anti-Semitism.

There are two Joseph’s posting. I just made one post. I spelled my name with a capital “J”. As to the answer about taking the fight to the enemy means to continue what we are doing now in Afghanistan and Iraq. Give fair warning and then back it up with action. I would think that this would be better than sitting on our hands.

Little joey (joseph) - I'm sure that most Muslims haven't thought much about the Caliphate in the past because it didn't seem a possible reality. I bet they are actively thinking about it now because they would greatly benefit .

We have all made some good points, and we all realize that the world is moving closer to a wide-scale armed conflict. This should have been nipped in the bud decades ago, but as usual, serious matters escape most people in the West until they are deep in it.

All the peace marching in the world won't stop the Jihadists. Capturing the leaders won't stop them. God knows what will. But in any case we must try.

I just heard a C-Span presentation by Schoenfeld. He mentioned that the Muslim world hates Israel because it refuses to "disappear," i.e., become part of the Caliphate. I hope that we have enough gumption to also stand up and refuse to "disappear."

1. ISLAM means submission, not peace.
2. The want to kill all of us, we are Infidels.
Enough said by me, my 2 cents.

Sean:

No Sean, the Jihadis dont wish to kill us all. Only enough to cause the remaining Infidels to submit and know that they are submitted, as required by the koran. Then the infidels can pay the jizya and the Islamic overlords can live in luxury. In addition, for Muslims to feel superior to infidels, there must be some remaining infidels .

What we are failing to recognise even now, is that the Jihadis are waging this war right by the text book ie the koran. Thus in their own lights, they are convinced that they are morally, ethically and spiritually, in the clear. It is also why it is virtually impossible to get 'moderate' muslims to condemn the Jihad.
The Islamist are waging this war totally by the book. That is their strength, for it gives them moral certainty. It can also be their weakness, if we decide to exploit it fully.