Muslim intentions are clear: no other religious entity or people can exist on a superior or even equal basis with Islam. Thus, Israel is violating Muslim law by existing and Jews have forgotton their dhimmi status. Apparantly Sharon has forgotton this pre-eminent principle. He must believe that this is only a political struggle and has disregarded the fact that Islam does not divorce politics from religion.

America also promised Israel that they would never allow Saudi missiles to be placed in Saudi Arabia instead of the American ones. There are now many missiles in Saudi Arabia pointed at Israel since America has left that country militarily, and American promises are forgotten.

do yo have any evidence to prove your accusation (im just curious because i have never heard about saudi missiles targeted at israel recently) and why should they not have there missiles aimed at israel.. israel has over 200 nuclear weapons and the most advance air force in the region.

When Sharon comes, hat in hand, to ask for permission to carry out his ill-thought-out plan, and returning, rides in triumph through Persepolis, he contributes to the misunderstanding, by Israelis and by Americans, of what is at stake.

Israel has always faced a Jihad, somewhat disguised by Arab rhetoric, and the cunning use of "Christian" Arab frontmen -- Hanan Ashrawi, Peter Jenning's plaything, comes to mind, as do Naim Ateek and Archbishop Hilarion Cappucci. It is an Infidel state smack dab in the middle of the dar al-Islam. Its size is irrelevant; its existence is intolerable. The metaphors in the Arab and Muslim world for Isrrael are twofold: it is 1) a "cancer" and 2) a "knife in the Arab heart." Now one does not merely reduce a cancer in size, because it may metastasize; one removes it altogether, every last bit. One does not "pull a knife" out of one's heart a little bit -- but removes it altogether. The Arabs and those Muslims who follow them (those who have no other identity, such as Pakistanis, or who want none, such as the Khomeinists of Iran) are perfectly aware of their ultimate goal; it can be found, discussed, in Arab strategy manuals, in the press, on the Internet. There is nothing hidden about it -- only tactics differ, not goals.

Sharon has given insufficient attention to the use of Gaza as the traditional invasion route, for millennia, from the south. If he yields military control of that invasion route, by giving up those "settlements" that seem to have been so preposterously diabolized (under the Mandate for Palestine, which still applies, "close Jewish settlement on the land" --all over Mandatory Palestine, is one of the main reasons for the Mandate in the first place -- and the U.N., by Article 50, the so-called "Palestine article," has fully committed itself to the League of Nations' terms for that Mandate. Case closed.) he will gain nothing in return. Gaza has already been "given up" -- why the need to yield to the Arabs, really and even more importantly symbolically, by destroying Jewish greenhouses, farms, and houses? What precisely is gained? Does Ariel Sharon think he otherwise is not fully entitled, not only to hold onto "some" settlements in the West Bank, but to the entire West Bank? Legally, morally, historically, Israel's claim to all of Western Palestine (Jordan is Eastern Palestine, and knows it) is unassailable -- unless one wishes to rewrite all the rules of warfare, and readjust all the borders of post-World War II or even post-World War I, Europe (will Romano Prodi be quick to suggest that the Alto Adige be surrendered, as the Sudtirol, to Austria? If not, why not? He enjoys so much lecturing the Israelis; it would be fascinating to see this pettifogger engage in logic-chopping distinctions between the right of Italy to the Alto Adige (97% German when the Italians took it), and Judea and Samaria).

Sharon may have been a winning general, but like many Israelis, he is tired, and has in his age and his weariness not been able to think clearly, to analyze the basis of Arab hostility, and why Israel's size is a matter, for them, of ultimate indifference. Sharon has been no worse than the other leaders of the Western world, nor any worse -- perhaps better -- than previous leaders of Israel. But at this point in world history, such a failure to comprehend, and to help others to comprehend (including those who wish Israel well, but only with their hearts and not their heads), is a grievous lapse.

As this article says, America promises Israel many things, and once Israel makes the move to show good faith, then the original promise is forgotten.

Joseph, here is an article about the F-16s..
http://imra.org.il/story.php3?id=1327

Joseph, a more recent article to answer your question...
http://imra.org.il/story.php3?id=18150

Off topic for a second.....Did anyone else see the Professor from UC Berkeley on O'Reilly last night? Not Hatem Bazian either....This was some lazy eyed freak that started to raise his voice to O'Reilly when O'Reilly asked him about the "Muslim Terrorists"....They guy started yelling that not all terrorists were Muslims.

When O'Reilly told him that the terrorists in question right now are ALL Muslim, he started trying to overtalk O'Reilly.

Yet another example of a male Muslim refusing to acknowledge the flaws of his religious beliefs. There was a female Muslim on there at the same time but at a different location, that had just written a book calling for the reform of Islam.

Needless to say, she made sense, while her male counterpart made an ass of himself......UC Berkeley sure can pick their Muslim Professors and Lecturers....Can't they?

Nice, Hugh, that some memories go back to the once-thorny question of "Italia Irredenta" of 1869 - 1915 (and how it was resolved - via Italian victory in WWI) and the neat parallel it represents with the West Bank.

There are indeed grave risks in Mr Sharon's unilateral disengagement plan from the Gaza Strip and the great majority of the West Bank.

However, with reliable reports of anarchy mounting at an alarming clip in the disputed territories, at the hands of Arab "political", tribal/feudal and criminal gangs, militias, hooligans and thugs, etc, it could well be that Israel's sensibly vacating the arena for the "Palestinians"' civil war to break out. (Probably, when it comes, the Arabs'll spuriously call it their "War of Independence".)

In order to stop the violence infecting the 2/3 of its population that's of "Palestinian" background, Jordan will most probably close its border with any "Palestine" that comes into being, by default, on any land which is evacuated in the West Bank. Likewise, Egypt'll have to seal its crossing into and out of Gaza.

With Israel somewhat more secure than previously, behind its separation-barrier, the "Palestinians"'ll be confined to their "zoo", to fight it out in there until some sanity emerges among the survivors and a proper peace is negotiated with "Palestine"'s neighbours.

If this doesn't eventually transpire and they kill one another off to the last, then "Palestine"'ll be reduced to a true "terra nullius" and the Israeli settlers can then move back in, resuming their rights.

Awe, how many illiterate harlots worshipping Israel's God populate the US. They attack the muslims for being fanatical (righteous accusation, nevertheless) as if they are any better in worshipping Israel.
Your consciousness has been erased, tabula rasa, and filled with idol worshipping. You're not "dhimmis", but "Rahabs", consciousless, traitor harlots bowing before the 'living' God of Israel (that is, before Israel itself and its might).
As the harlot Rahab bowed before the religious-psychological warfare of the jews and, betraying its city, enabled the slaughter of all its residents, similarly you will lead us to slaughter. She too thought that Israel's God was a true god, and that the land that belonged to her people, had to belong to the jews, as their propaganda had said.
Indeed, you are so blinded as not to see that the instigators of a WWIII are running free and wild.
Passions are stirred, irrational hatred is sown, and hide the real goal, on both sides, on both Islamics and Christians.

Awe, to you all, the cattle shall once more be lead to slaughter!! And they gloriously march forward, not even guessing what awaits them...

to h2o: it is because of rahab's faithfulness that she had the honor of being an ancestor of Jesus Christ (see Matthew 1:5)

So many of you have said it better than I could. If this were an era without mass media,
the Arafatians would have been either slaughtered or forced to leave to go to Jordan. But I still say those that want to stay - but with Jordanian citizenship (or whatever they want to call their 'state') - can do so as long as they pose no threat to anyone - Muslim, Christian or Jew.

To ted:

The Trojan Horse breeds trojan horse.
Rahab ancestor to Jesus is nothing but a cunning indication of what Christianity WAS all about. A trojan horse like Rahab.
An ideology of betrayal. It imploded the Roman Empire like bolshevism imploded old Russia.
Awe to you, for not understanding...
How can a rational westerner call Rahab's treachery (SHE allowed the slaughter of her people) faithfulness?
The ones who say and believe in this, they are going to ruin America without blinking, witout remorse. Only the Call is to be made, and they'll allow spies in their homes. Traitors! Holy-Traitors.
Rahab had a God of her own, good or bad.
The Jews had their God, good or bad.
Each god was inextricably connected with each nation's/race's being.
Rahab was not faithful, she was a weakling betraying her god. Which was subsequently smashed and erased by the Jewish God.
You believe now in the Jewish God because your ancestors were brainwashed and their societies broken long ago...
The Islamics long understood this. Their Mohammed man-made a Religion because the jews man-made their religion too. Mohammed knew it was mumbo-jumbo and it was all about war and politics.
Islam is closer to Judaism than Christianity is.

Awe to you all... the trumpets want another world war. Again. Again "for survival".
Awe to those who have no memory...

I do not understand why we keep focusing on what's going on overseas when the camel is relentlessly shoving his nose into our own 'tent'. Right here. In America.

We have a situation going on in Hamtramck, Michigan which in effect will force non muslim residents of that city to listen to 'allah akbar'
5 times a day. Over a loudspeaker. Check for yourselves.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38044

This is keeping right in step with their agenda, if you've been paying attention to the rise of islam in America-

Twenty-Year Plan for USA:
Islam Targets America
Author: Dr. Anis Shorrosh
Publication: Koenig's International News
Date:
URL: http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=38699&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1
(Dr. Shorrosh's bio is after the commentary.)
When we immigrated from Jerusalem, Jordan in January, 1967, little did I imagine that Islam would become center-stage in world news. As my sincere interest in the growth of Islam in America intensified, I began to discuss, dialogue, and then debate Muslim leaders throughout the world from an Arab Christian’s view of Islam. So far, I have had the privilege of participating in over 20 debates and discussions on every continent plus T.V. and radio. Islam Revealed was released in 1988 and is now in its 8th printing. The True Furqan is now in its third printing in the three years it has been published. It is the only book which challenges the Quran in substance, style, language and contents. The True Furqan can be located on www.answers-to-islam.net or www.islam-exposed.org.
The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020! Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?
1. Terminate America’s freedom of speech by replacing it with hate crime bills state-wide and nation-wide.
2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities to promote Islam as the original African-American’s religion while Christianity is for the whites! Strange enough, no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, “Abed.”
3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.
4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office for favorable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.
5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the internet by buying the corporations or a controlling stock.
6. Yield to the fear of imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – the black gold. America’s economy depends on oil, (1000 products are derived from oil), so does its personal and industrial transportation and manufacturing -41% comes from the Middle East.
7. Yell, “foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran” anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.
8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions, get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way. Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?
9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:
a. Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961)
b. No birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.
c. Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one cannot have the Muslim legal permission to marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.
d. Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2000 released inmates have joined Al Qaida world-wide). Only a few have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil. So far – sleeping cells!
10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution.
11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish “Centers for Islamic studies” with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher education institutions.
12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, not the truth, which is Islam hijacked the terrorists. Furthermore in January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4500 packets of the Quran, videos, promoting Islam to America’s high schools--free. They would never allow us to reciprocate.
13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards the Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.
14. Nullify America’s sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls. (We have experienced this too often since 9-11.)
15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not American’s justice system.
16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S. but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.
17. Raise interest in Islam on America’s campuses by insisting that freshman take at least one course on Islam. Be sure that the writer is a bonafide American, Christian, scholarly and able to cover up the violence in the Quran and express the peaceful, spiritual and religious aspect only.
18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media of their visibility.
19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.
20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the US by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.
Dr. Anis Shorrosh, D.Min, D.Phil, a member of Oxford Society of Scholars, has traveled in 76 countries, is a Palestinian Arab Christian American who is an author, lecturer and producer of TV documentaries. Islam Revealed is a best seller which has been printed eight times already. His forthcoming tenth book will be available spring 2003 entitled Islam: A Threat or a Challenge. He is in great demand as a talk show guest on radio and television throughout the U.S.A. He has been on CNN, TBN as well as other networks. You can contact him at PO Box 949, Fairhope, AL 36533, FAX 1-251-621-0507 or phone 1-251-680-7770. Also, you may order his materials from his new website: www.focusing-on-islam.com. The True Furqan, our monumental new Quran, is also available for viewing on www.islam-exposed.org.

I'd say it's working out pretty well so far.

--- "10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution."

Evangelical Christians are nothing but second-hand jews. "Rahabs". Useful idiots.
The actual term is christian-zionists.
There's nothing wrong with a jewish zionist. Praise to him. Its natural.
But a christian zionist is only a "dhimmi" of judaism. He betrays quickly, faithfully and wholeheartedly his mother nation.
When an american says God Bless America he thinks about the Creator, the supreme universal God. A philosophical God, whose strength lies within us all.
When a christian zionist says the same thing, he actually subordinates himself to the Jewish God.
In the past, each nation/race had its particular God. And that particular nation/race was chosen by that God. It was THEIRS. Each had a natural connection with its naturally philosophically elaborated God. If the people that elaborated that philosophy died, their God died too ... yet it was the Tribal God, not the Universal God. The Unmovable one.
When a person subordinates to another people's God, that person may find in it some resemblance with its former God in general philosophical terms, but the new God is physically bound to the people from which it stemmed, and its plan is bound to them only.

A Christian Zionist worships the jewish people, as this is the only way to reach closeness with the foreign God he has adopted. He becomes a "Rahab". He is an idol worshipper.
The Idol was the term to describe not a false god, as the term is useless, but a FOREIGN God. We believe in God, our own, the others are Idols, though they may have something philosophically in common.

The Jewsih God also clearly establishes the need for his people's racial purity (Deut.), the need for living space etc.
What did our old Gods prescribed to us?
What did they tell?
And who stole them from us, what fanatical self-righteouss ideology?

It doesnt matter. We see the clear result -- the supremacy of the Jewish God over silly minds in the West. Their subordination to another people's plans.
THEIR MORAL AND INTELLECTUAL FAILURE.
Awe, to you "Rahabs", you know not what self-hating poison you drink!

H20 Does the "H" by chance stand for Hood? Is this the Hood Jihadi incognito....under cover....? H2007 LOL

I'm not Hood, whoever he is.
And I may be on drugs, then again, so could you.
I'm no islamic and no christian zionist.
You attack only one side of the problem. There are dhimmis. But there are also "Rahabs".
When your superpower is no longer useful or changes its ways, they will be activated, and your walls will be shattered on our Call. They, the Rahabs are the Trojans in your midst.
Yet you understand not. And you laugh.
Awe to you!
We were safe behind the Ottoman Empire too, and the christian were the targets of our zeal, as they were then our inquisitorial enemies. We heated up the muslims then, you fools, and crushed christians! It was a "war of survival", as was the last one.
Then the Christian Religion was a fake one and islamics were our brethren.
True and false, good and bad, chosen and unchosen.
Subjective considerations.
And yet the "Rahabs" bow before them. Believe what is written. Yea, see not and yet believe...
Foolish Rahabs... Hahaha.

It shall be written that during the Holocaust we were saved by Our God. Verily, as we ARE the embodyment of our God. He speaks through us.
And thus the future Rahabs will tremble and betray, as what we say mythically, will be historically accurate.
Though we were saved by our own Power and influence, and silly rahabs.

Its all about Power. And the weaklings will worship it, because they understand it not. They understand the iron rod and they worship it.

Awe to all! Its coming.

H20 - I am confused by your rhetoric. Exactly who is "Rahab?" Who is the deity that you speak of? Let's be civil please! Thanks.

H2O - I have discovered the identity of Rahab on my own, and I can say that I agree with the opinions of the others posters. I will add that you must be on the wrong site.

epg, H2O is trying to make an analogy here. Rahab was the harlot who lived in Jericho when the spies came to her city to check it out. She took them in and protected their lives and in exchange after the city fell, she was awarded membership within the Jewish Community - where she has ancestors - maybe even - today. Her god would be the god of that city. He is trying to make the connection that you are being unwitting tools of the Jews, who are trying to take over the world - at least this is the little I can figure out from his ranting.

One question, H2O: What would it matter if she hid the spies to begin with? According to the Biblical narrative and all that has been discovered by secular archaelogists, the walls of the city seemed to fall down flat of their own accord. It just doesn't seem to matter that she hid them because even if she did, they could not have sacked the city without that occurrence. So, your analogy is quite flawed. Or, could it be that the G-d of the Bible actually made that happen?...

Nah,... it would be too much of a miracle wouldn't it? And pretty d*mn convenient for the Jews, dontcha think?

If you're still checking this thread:

"Or, could it be that the G-d of the Bible actually made that happen?..."
Paula

Thats the intellectual failure I was talking about. The intellectual failure of "westerners" stuffing their minds with asiatic tribal religious speak and superstitions.
I'm not going to try to explain whats the error, caise it would take some time and you are anyway captive to that delusion.
The only way I can help you is by directing you to studying your own past.

P.S. The Jews waged "cherem" on Jericho. That is, Holy War. Slaughtered them all. Stole everything. Sound familiar (Quran maybe?)...
Islam and Judaism are the same asiatic fanatical thing. Each trying to impose its God, convert everybody.
Yet you people, former rationalists, understand not the picture. You are superstitious, fearful of shadows and CONVERTED.
Why does your Christianity devolved into a mere carcass of Jewish Might/God worship???
Why no laws banning homosexuality. Why same sex marriage. Why no racial talk as in OT?
Because its unfortunately a sham.
The role of it all was not to destroy the former pagan Gods and festivals (as they survive today too, in "christian form"), but to SUPERIMPOSE over all the other Gods, the Jewish God.
Alas, you understand not. Or do you?

Thinking the walls came down by powerful God, and the Sun stood still while cherem slaughtered everything and Rahab did the right thing... (Joshua). This is sickness, poison and Idol worshipping. In the West, in the 21st Century!!!
Think about it.

h2o, you are a waste of time and apparently attempting to convince others to ride into oblivion with you. i'm not a christian because i was brainwashed. indeed, i was an athiest for a decade and a half. i am a christian because God has shown me the way, Jesus died for my sins, and it is a personal relationship. i care not to enter into your rabid denunciations of rahab and theology in general. you don't offer cogent debate. you resurrect the hatred of ishmael's line for their hebrew cousins. that is not my fight. my fight is in the contemporary world, and your ill-conceived gibberish wastes valuable time. remember, salvation lies within.