Robert - glad you mentioned this. I saw "Sign of the Times" and shared it with my little group of readers. I didn't copy you because I was assuming you were going to post it. I was pretty puzzled when you didn't, but then there was another crisis to deal with in my real job, and it slipped my mind to go back to you.

"...have been so busy the last few days that we neglected to note the publication of two articles by Robert Spencer..."

Death Shall Ultimately Strike Those Infidels Who Forget Mr. Spencer Articles!!

;)

If you still believe there is no Christian Crusade you have not seen PBS's "Jesus Factor" (available on line) that is a historical document of George Bush's rise to fill the most powerful man in history.

If we refuse to see history even as it repeats it's deadly bloody past where is the hope?

Prisoner abuse is not an "aberation" it is the true history of humans waring against one another. Turn a sentient human into a killing machine, by definition, blocks sentient beings from feeling compassion - short circuiting Christian teachings i.e. "do unto others as you would have others do unto you".

The mirror of this teaching is: Torture and humiliate sentient beings enough and and they will become human bombs to "do unto others what has been done unto them"

Evil AND Good are contained within the human species
and no where else

My dear Summer Breeze,

I respectfully request that you consult a history of the real Christian Crusades. See how they were called and on what grounds they were fought.

Compare that to the present situation, and you should be disabused of any idea that a Christian Crusade is going on anywhere in the world.

Meanwhile, as for prisoner abuse: the difference between one civilization and the other in this particular clash is that one punishes such behavior, while the other celebrates it.

Cordially,
Robert Spencer

Having just read 'Signs of the Times,' I am reminded of that (person) in Texas (illegally, I might add), who was selling cell phones. I have to wonder if Anyone picked that up, and checked Whom he was selling them to?

The photographs of what is absurdly and hysterically being described as the "torture" of Iraqis -- one of naked men in a kind of football pile-up, the second of a man wearing a hood and standing on a box -- ring a bell. That bell is not Buchenwald or Lubyanka, and certainly not the indescribable torture chambers of Saddam Hussein, where people were thrown into the equivalent of large-scale garbage disposals to be dismembeed. No, these photographs show examples of what can only be described as fraternity hazing -- that is, the moronic ordeals, which are deliberately embarrassing, even humiliating, but not "torture," which American male college students, at their most idiotic, insist on inflicting one another before the putative privilege of becoming that appetizing thing, a fraternity brother, is awarded.

Stupid, yes, but let us not exaggerate, nor engage in those ready, and therefore hollow, expressions of outrage that come so easily to people of a certain type. Those who know what real totrture is, and certainly people in the Arab countries do because, with the possible exceptions ofBahrain and Oman, they all practice it, and their peoples and cultures are steeped in the culture of persecution and torture. It is particularly maddening to see those who work for, or view, Al-Jazeera, becoming so feigningly indignant about all this. No need to echo them, but to see these photographs for what they were -- no less, but also no more.

Only a fool would confuse this sort of thing with real torture and other serious abuse. If assorted "human rights" groups, so quick to attack the alleged abuses of the most humane armies (such as that of the United States), so reluctant to come to grips with the persecution suffered by non-Muslims all over the Muslim and Arab world (Human Rights Watch, for example, has yet to utter a peep about other, much graver matters in Iraq itself. There has been not a syllable from the voluble Kenneth Roth, for example, about the forced conversion of the few Christians left in Ramadi, with the attendant kidnapping of Christian women by Muslim men, nor a word about the attacks and murders of Christians in Basra and Baghdad, nor about the murder of members of the gnostic sect of Mandeans, and the burning of their ancient manuscripts).

What are clearly idiotic antics owing a good deal to National Lampoon's Frat House, are discussed by some as if they were the worst tortures inflicted by Dr. Mengele, or by the agents of Lavrenti Beria. Nonsense. Nonsense on stilts.

It is surely clear by now that the real agressors are the Zionists and their Christian puppets. Most Europeans know this, as do most of the progressives in America.

The Zionists and Crusaders must leave the holy Muslim lands of the Arabian Penninsula. They must also cease persecuting Muslims elsewhere in the world. Only then can there be peace.

"No, these photographs show examples of what can only be described as fraternity hazing -- that is, the moronic ordeals, which are deliberately embarrassing, even humiliating, but not "torture,"
by Ephraim Sirin

Your name suggests to me you are from "Israel". I feel sorry for you because the rape of human dignity is commited daily against Muslims in the occupied land. We don't tolerate such acts in America.

I certaily would not have called it "fraternity hazing" if the private parts of another man was forced on my face - its just disgusting.

Crusaders vs. jihadists

This article was informative to begin with, both current and historical events. But, it quickly lost focus and interest. Your main point was the lost ownership of the name "Crusader" in the ethnically white Christian communities. What the educated mind knows is that the "Crusaders" were not soldiers to be proud of as they were nothing more than mercenaries; not Soldiers of Christ. Their acts and aggression against civilians fuelled by alcohol is also something a civilised person would not like to be associated with. So well done Incarnate Word.

You also shockingly omitted one wrong Jihadi. Hemant Lakhani, a Hindu of Indian origin was more interested in money from his subjects than Jihad. And his subjects were the FBI, not the 3rd worlders you claimed.

Dear Reza~ (remembering that there was a discussion about whether you are male or female) the 'progressives' in America would stand by and watch as a muslim man Slapped you into silence for daring to speak without being asked. After all, it Is within that man's rights (except in the US, or so one who Believes in freedom for all could hope). Why do I not see you complaining about muslim persecution of women?

Perhaps you can explain why muslims are bombing their own in Turkey, Iraq and Saudi Arabia? To name a few. Or why the palestinians were Perscuted out of country after country by their own muslim bretheren? They have been kicked around for over a century before Israel came to be.

Heads up everyone. Connecting the dots...after reading Mr. Spencer's article, Michele Malkins in today's NY Post, and a curious article also in the Post...keep your eyes open. 5 empty suitcases have been left in high target areas in NY - Penn Station and a Federal Building among them. Tests of the system. See who is leaving these...cops can stop and question individuals if they have been given a reason to...racial profiling aside. Something is up...
Those who live by the waterways...watch for changes in routines and new boats/ships coming into areas where they have never been. Also watch for groups of Muslims avoiding areas that weren't before avoided.

I feel sorry for you because the rape of human dignity is commited daily against Muslims in the occupied land. -Queer guy

God willing, the day will come when bodies of Americans and Jews will be dragged, humiliated and trampled in the Arabian peninsula, them and their tyrants and allies. The day will come, God willing, when we will destroy their bases over their heads and kick them out of our land,” one statement by Muqrin said. -saudi guy

It is surely clear by now that the real agressors are the Zionists and their Christian puppets. -Reza

Later, the Saudi Press Agency quoted Abdullah as telling a gathering of princes in Jiddah that “Zionism is behind terrorist actions in the kingdom. I can say that I am 95 percent sure of that.” -saudi guy

Great minds think alike.

"Heads up everyone. Connecting the dots...after reading Mr. Spencer's article, Michele Malkins in today's NY Post, and a curious article also in the Post...keep your eyes open"
by jawa

Does anybody know whether Michelle Malkins is connected to R Spencer. He always writes articles in her crazy style. At least I am glad she has now given up the illegal Mexicans to concentrate on something else.

Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh
John F. Kerry's gonna win

Ephraim Sirin:

Good comment on 'torture' vs. 'fraternity hazing'. That really sums it up. If this was Saddams jailers they would start here and then quickly move on to real electric cattle prods stuck you know where, then on to more blood and gore.
The US is just not good at out and out torture. We have to settle for torture via Natioonal Lampoon methods. It's reprehensible, it's bad public relations, but it's not real torture.
It's all about media spin these days.

Mike H

So now you barbarians are defending the torture and humiliation of innocent, unarmed men who were snatched off the streets for the "crime" of being Muslim. Enjoy your "triumphs" while you can. You see in Fallujah and Najaf what happens when you cowards make the mistake of attacking the mujihadeen. Apparently you didn't learn your lesson in Mogadishu and Beirut. Well, we'll just keep repeating the lesson until you understand.

Allahu akbar

Mogadishu is certainly a paradise on earth now that it is controlled by muslim warlords. And beautiful Beirut, well, let's just call it part of greater Syria.

Crime of being muslims? How about the poor dead children whose crime was being jews? Brave mujahid, always shooting at the women.

yabba dabba akbar

In response to assorted Jihadis critical of my posting, I would like to make one correction. The movie referred to is "Animal House," not "Frat House."

crime of being nonmuslim?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040418/wl_nm/portugal_britain_attacks_dc_1

He added: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity

And with respect, when bombs are used instead of swords, and wars are waged to "rid the world of evil doers" and we have a Bush that believes and states "I believe I was chosen by God", and his tongue slips and calls this Iraq War a "Crusade" ...AND..if...one views the documentation as presented by PBS...one might see something different.

The evangelicals, in high places, in this country have no problem with "crusade activities" (it is not what it is called it is what it tastes like) - tune into "God's Learning Channel" and you will hear "their" delight that the end days are coming and their intent to do "God's work" by helping it along.

I understand most Christians in this country would not be part of a Christian Crusade. I believe this is also true of most Muslims. Just as I have heard your statements, dear Robert Spencer, that Muslim clerics have the responsibility to deal directly
with the extremist Muslims, I am suggesting the Christians need to take a good look at our "leader" - his own words, well documented in PBS's "Jesus Factor", and deal with this directly.

Meanwhile, back in the good ol' US of A, John Kerry is called a liar because he made public the soldiers abuses in Vietnam.

Ephraim Sirin:
"fraternity hazing"? to attach electrodes to a prisoners hands, stand him on a stool barely fitting his feet and tell him if he falls of
he will be electrocuted? It was an "aberration" that some pictures of torture made it to the news media ergo we can not know the extent of current prisoner abuse. (But we do know the history of the "School of the Americas")

And yes, many Christians are brutally abused. Is that an excuse? If we kill only 10,000 Iraqi's in this current war shall we feel good that it was not a million?

"feigningly indignant"? raised fists and shouts of anger?

Gary:

"Perhaps you can explain why muslims are bombing their own in Turkey, Iraq and Saudi Arabia?"

Because they have dictators US is supporting?

Mike H:

"The US is just not good at out and out torture."

True because US citizens would not tolerate it. False because US "interrogators" methods are behind closed doors and we only learn of the cruelties when some investigative reporter learns of them - as we are now learning re prisoners at Gitmo Bay.

summer breeze an appropriate name for a douche

Sorry summer,

Muslims treat nonmuslims, and their own kind, much worse than we ever could. You feel humiliating muslim prisoners is unbearable, but not a word for the jewish woman, and four children killed today in Gaza. Your silence says it all.

Summer Breeze~ Thank You! Islamic leaders Are Tyrants. You have them in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Beruit, Syria, Ira... Oh sorry, we freed the people of Iraq.

Hello Summer Breeze;

You must be a child of the 60's and 70's. Unfortunately (or fortunately) that wild, wacky and wonderful period of our history is over. The pendulum has swung over to another episode. It was fun while it lasted, at least for a while. But the real world is not Woodstock. The naive utopianism of that time has met the dark side of human reality in today's struggle.
You sound like a genuinely well-intentioned person. Unfortunately good intentions are often the cause of many blunders. You demand absolute moral purity from the US and are quick to condemn even the slightest infraction. At the same time you give the greates leeway and understanding to the 'oppressed' Third World, etc.
Please, wake up and take off your rose-tinted glasses. Mahatma Gandhi could espouse non-violence because the Brits are civilized. Martin Luther King could invoke non-violence because America is essentially moral. However, some people and countries are not. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Tojo,Franco, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, etc etc.
Unfortunately these people only understand force. The only way to deal with a rabid mad dog is to kill him. That is the kind of enemy we face today.

You appear to have no sense of islamic fascism as a very real and present danger to the civilized world. We could elect Dennis Kucinich to the White House and it wouldn't change their agenda one wit. If anybody is on an aggressive crusade it is they! The crusade is all theirs. We are only responding to their stated aims.

As for the alleged 'torture': it wasn't real torture, in the sense of bodies being broken to bits. If that's the worst we can do when it comes to torture then we really are in another league entirely compared to the generally accepted Arab norms. Remeber the poison gas attacks on the Kurds. No sense of a prank gone awry there, eh.

Sorry to burst your rainbow-colored 'we love the world' daydream, but the call now is not for mushy love songs, but rather appeals to the more stoic aspects of character. Instead of learning 'how to get in touch with your feelings and feel good about yourself and the world' today's lessons are about "calling a spade a spade, learning to know good from evil, developing backbone and persistence, understanding the value of America and supporting the ideals of the West against a powerful nihilistic theocratic fascist enemy, i.e fundamentalist islam.

What will you do when (not if) there is another terror attack on the USA on the scale of 911? Will you still blame our government?

Mike H

Isn't it Jordan and Egypt the US has arrangements with for interrogation of foreign prisoners not possible under US law?

Michael Hart'rich

Paint me in your dreams, but I, a retired registered nurse, not a flossy nightgown.
Dennis Kucinich you say...predicting the future...nothing would change, from my ridge, I'm hearing he would change foreign policy, for starters.

Brave would be the hart that could imagine politicians that have serving we the people as their goal in seeking office.

"Remeber the poison gas attacks on the Kurds."
Remember where the gas came from? clue: the same place Israel received armed preditors in the year 2002.

"learning to know good from evil"

Every human being has the capacity for good and evil - even those extremes that claim "we've been saved"...individuals go to extremes - like killing abortion doctors...isms take people to extremes like the well trained soldiers, in Vietnam, in Iraq now (er, last January)

"another 9/11"?

It is said, population wise compared to US population, what happened in Madrid was there 9/11.
Spain stopped being a colonizer years ago. US has military bases in about 140 countries. And what was that fiasco on Haiti?

what if, pre 9/11 al-Qaeda had 7 cells in the US
equiped with nuculear weapons

horrifying thought
that gives you some idea of what non-nuclear countries have been feeling for 50 years, more or less

Who used mustard gas?
Who is the only country in the world that has ever used a nuclear bomb? and has threatened to use them again?

Is there Nothing
wrong with our foreign policy?

Hey Everyone... DO ANY OF YOU REALIZE THAT THE PRISONERS THAT WERE "ABUSED" are still BREATHING? Their bodies where not mutilated and burned and hung up to dry? They are living? There is no mass grave by our soldiers? No. I do not condone this treatment, but we all should understand that these people were not KILLED. Unlike Pearl, who had his head chopped off, or our other soldies, or civilians that were brutally murdered and MURDERERS taped it.. One cannot compare the two. We need to keep that in mind.

Also, we should finally declare war on all these Muslim Terrorists throughout the world... STARTING HERE IN AMERICA WITH CAIR. It's time to either lock them up (preferable) or send them to allah, or DEPORT THEM. Time for this country and the world to GET SERIOUS. Give them time and they will KILL US ALL.

Hey, Reza and associates:

Suggest you read a history of the American Indian wars by a fellow named William Brandon.

Then tell me you want an all out jihad with us.

If you do, well, just be prepared to make the hajj to the "Place of the two smoking, radioactive holes in the ground." Because,in the kind of all-out fight to the death that you seem to want, that is exactly what we would do.

They are still worried about America because we have guns this is why they are stricking in the commy countrys frist thay are after their big weapons we can not allow this to happen the one thing we have on our side is they do not know our history or our charture we will do what our forfathers did in ww2 to save our lives we will stand frim and we will reelect G.W. we like our short skirts and our freedom. They are poring tons of money into the anti-gun lobby. well in TX we have caught another peaceful Muslum who has made a few cem bombs enough to take out 30,000 and what about those peaceful Muslums who were going to take out 80,000 in Jordan I think they were going to kill Muslums as they did in S.A last week when they hit the police station wern't they Muslums killing Muslums funny we have Muslums killing christians all over the world and we are to sit back and worry about you calling the USA names well
God Bless The USA and her fighting Forces give her the courage and strength to stay to corse Amen