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May 4, 2004

Spain wants to monitor mosques

ArafatMoratinos.jpg
But does Moratinos (right) condemn all jihadist violence?

An acknowledgement of where jihad terrorists are recruited and formed from an unlikely source: Spain.

MADRID, Spain (AP) - The Spanish government is considering monitoring mosques and imams to curb Islamic extremism blamed for the March 11 terror bombings in Madrid, the foreign minister said Monday.

"I think it is important to know what is being preached on Fridays in the various religious forums that have been growing in Spain in a totally uncontrolled fashion," Miguel Angel Moratinos told the Telecinco television network, referring to prayers on the Muslim holy day.

He said that, as Spain's North African immigrant community has expanded in recent years, mosques have arisen in everything from workshops to offices.

Spain has a Muslim community of about 500,000 people out of a total population of 42 million. Moroccans make up the second largest immigrant group, with about 380,000 members.

Fourteen of the 18 people charged in the Madrid bombing are Moroccans.

The judge leading the investigation into the bombings, which killed 191 people, has said the alleged instigator of the attack, a Tunisian named Serhane Ben Abdelmajid Fakhet, preached holy war among Muslims in Madrid.

Moratinos spoke a day after Interior Minister Jose Antonio Alonso said in a newspaper interview that he is considering drafting a bill to monitor imams, or Muslim clerics, as well as clergy of other faiths.

Posted by Robert at May 4, 2004 7:10 AM
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The governments of the West will all have to monitor the mosques. That meants they will have to hire agents who 1) know Arabic and other relevant languages, Urdu, Turkish, Farsi, and who are 2) are either non-Muslim, but can pass as Muslims (Copts, who are forced to receive some training in Islam, might be helpful, so too would Maronites, Arab-speaking Jews, Chaldeans, Pakistani Christians, and Berberbs who have turned). One would be foolish to rely on Muslim agents to monitor the khutbas, and other goings-on in mosques.

Monitoring the mosques all over the non-Muslim world, of course, is a tall order. And a very expensive one, added to all the other huge expenses incurred in the campaign to make Infidel lands safe from the very people who are, paradoxically, still allowed in when should have been clear to all who had bothered to study the doctrines of Islam, and the history of Islamic rule over non-Muslims, as to what was to have been expected.

These costs, including those for the local police to monitor individuals, and the lawyers and judges who must give their time to approving, or explaining, taps and search warrants and suchlike, and the extra costs of guarding power plants and LNG terminals, and ports, and airports, and marshalls on planes, and ...on and on. Economists need to figure out just what the cost of this internal security against Muslim terrorist threats actually is. It would be instructive for taxpayers to know this: what is the real cost, in terms of all this monitoring and societal anxiety, and the constant need to worry about the latest demands (for a prayer room in schools, or a lawsuit demanding that a Muslim woman be shown with her face completely covered for her driver's license, or all the other demands, big and small, ludicrous and plausible, that are made by Muslims who do not believe in pluralism (except insofar as in the West, and only until they attain sufficient numbers, they must use it to their own advantage), nor the idea that power should flow from the expressed will of the people, not the codified will of Allah in the shari'a, nor equality of the sexes, nor individualism, nor in free and skeptical inquiry. Indeed, it is hard to see how, in what way. Muslims who are believers share any of the beliefs that are essential to, and defining of, our civilisation. Why then do we so blithely allow ourselves to welcome those who do not wish us, our ideals, our society, our own beings, well? What sort of nonsense is this?

But, coming back to our moutons, those little European lambs whose throats are slit in the streets at Eid al-Fitr, just how are those mosques going to be monitored? Will there be tapes? Will full-time agents have to visit every mosque, for every sermon? Will they wear wires, in the spirit of the The Sopranos or Tommasso Buscetta? How much will it all cost, all this visiting, and taping, and monitoring, and reporting, and checking, and re-checking? How much expense are the countries of Western Europe, how much trouble, are they prepared to go to?

Once upon a time, one could argue that workers were needed, and MOroccans, Algerians, and so on were eager to come. And so they were, but they had other ideas. They did not jettison their ideological baggage when they arrived in the ports of southern Europe -- no, that baggage became ever more precious and important and defining in their lives. The European elites refused to see, or refused to listen to those who warned, that Islamic tenets had to be taken seriously. Now they are in the fix that they do not quite know how to address straight on.

But there is a way. First, limit all future immigration to people from Eastern Europe and Russia. Those from Eastern Europe are, after all, officially now part of the EU; they deserve to be allowed to migrate, and to take those jobs. They will not be thegreat security risks that Muslim immigrants will be, and thus their actual cost will not include the hidden cost, as yet unknown, of monitoring them. Or allow in Filipinos, Chinese, Hindus and Sikhs from India, people from Latin America -- none of whom would require the khutba-monitoring, the taps and the tapes and so on, that would be necessary, from now on, for Muslim immigrants.

And do what can be done to sever the ideological links with the most virulent promoters of hostility. The Europeans should support any American effort to put permanently out of commission the Arab satellite stations (and the satellite itself); they should monitor not only the mosques, but of course all radio and television stations aimed at Muslims within their countries, and not shirk the duty to shut them down if there is the slightest evidence of hostilty being encouraged against non-Muslims of any kind.

That is a beginning. But it requires a real understanding of Islam, and how, as a system of thought-control, and total regulation both of the individual, and of the Believer's relastions with all Infidels, there is nothing quite like it in the dangers it poses.

It would be interesting to know how the Turks, at least under Ataturk and Inonu, monitored the mosques, which ones they closed down outright, and how, before the age of tape-recorders, they ensured that the content was, if not anodyne, at least not full of rants against the Infidel.
Given that the Qur'an and the hadith are so full of such rants, it is fascinating to consist out of what material any khutba can be constructed, if the manichaeism essential to Islam -- Muslims being Good, and Infidels being Bad -- is deliberately proscribed. If the right of Islam to conquer can't be mentioned, if the need to "struggle in the path of Allah" (the Jihad) is given only a psychological interpretation, if the natural law by which "Islam must dominate and is not to be dominated" cannot be invoked, why then it is hard to see what is left? And as for inspiring tales of Muhammad from the hadith and the sira, given that he was a political leader and warrior, and fought 78 battles, and was involved in killing hostages, and ordering the assassination of all sorts of people, including a Jew who was over 90 (or was it 100?) years old, and that his favorite wife Aisha was nine when he consummated his marriage to her, well it is hard to see out of what acceptable material Muhammad's life can be told. Possibly it will all come down to chanting over and over again the 99 epithets attached to Allah. If many find it boring, and begin to look for that oldtime religion in other places, that would be, from the Infidel point of view, highly desirable.

Posted by: Hugh at May 4, 2004 8:54 AM

Hugh:

Can't you PLEASE quit your job, get your own website and devote yourself full-time to these issues? :) Or perhaps write a book? You have a lot to say/teach us but we only get it in bits and snatches - I'd love to see a comprehensive work.

Posted by: CGW at May 4, 2004 9:10 AM

(hugh)salopard....!!

Posted by: chris , uk at May 4, 2004 9:10 AM

What a novel idea, babysitting mischevious Imams in the Mosques. What a shame this is that more funding needs to be wasted in the form of this plan, when it would be so much simpler and cheaper to just shut them all down.

Knowing Spain, they'll send Muslims in to do the monitoring. They've become a major disappointment.

Posted by: DCWatson at May 4, 2004 9:17 AM

First of all, Hugh, have you written any books that we can read?

Secondly - as to the article - it would be a lot cheaper in the beginning to monitor their newspapers. Authors of inflammatory articles could be brought in for questioning and, if determined to be guilty of incitement, be arrested. Not all the mosques have to be monitored in the beginning. A few can be picked out - nobody would know which ones - and the imam's speech could be (maybe) secretly recorded. Al-Queda promised to leave Spain alone if Spain left Iraq. Wonder what they'll do now.

Posted by: Chaya Eitan at May 4, 2004 9:23 AM

It would be far simpler for Spain to take a page out of its history and do what Ferdinand and Isabella did--send 'em packing back to North Africa. Come to think of it, that wouldn't be a bad idea anywhere and everywhere in the West.

Posted by: Rick at May 4, 2004 9:32 AM

To bad Spain cannot Bring back the likes of Don Diaz Bavar "El Cid".

Posted by: Mackie at May 4, 2004 10:09 AM

"What sort of nonsense is this?"
That phrase sums it all up for me. We allow people to immigrate, which is supposed to be a priviledge we extend to those who want a system of government such as we have and who will fight to protect and preserve it. Among those who cross our borders are a sect of people who vow to do just the opposite: change our constitution, impose laws of their own,(Sharia) and overtake our government! And we continue to say yes to them. What sort of nonsense is this?
Are we still refusing to take them seriously? 'Oh well, what can a little religious cult like Islam do?" (See news headlines of Sept 11th,2001)
I remember how shocked I was to read that Osama had declared all out war on the United States in l998! "Well, who is this guy?" I'm sure we thought. "What can he really do to us?"
I think we've seen what harm a very determined and warlike cult can do to us and yet...our leaders continue to think they can control and appease them.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Freedom to teach children to hate infidels; Freedom to threaten war on the people who's country you have been welcomed into; Freedom to push women around and claim them as your chattel. Land of the free and home of the knave!
And with such a strong dogma, such a powerful cult - will we change them or will they change us?
Will there soon be calls to prayer in every city in the US, over loud speakers, declaring that there is only one God and that is Allah! Gulp. What happened to the God of the Jews? and what about Buddhists? And all the rest. Or, what if you don't believe in an exterior God at all, only the one in your heart?
Sorry, but your concept of God has just been preempted by this ONE God, Allah. Who decided that? Well,..the Muslims, I guess.
Can't you imagine the holy rollers doing that with loudspeakers in all the neighborhoods - "Be saved today or you will burn forever in hell!" How long would it take for that little effort to be shut down.
All I continue to think is: What sort of nonsense is this?
And thank you Hugh, once again for such an interesting and informative piece. Yes, you should write a book or at least have a column in a newspaper. SOMEBODY needs to tell it like it is!

Posted by: patricia at May 4, 2004 10:41 AM

The issue is this PC leftist notion of multi culturism. The past decade the public has been under the cosh of PC facism in regards to Islam. This barrier is being broken down, people are starting to wake up and say, "Hang on, WTF has been going on here?" People really did think that Islam was just a religion with quaint little customs and rituals. That's the PR side of it, the dark, ugly underside is what needs to be brought into the light and and scrutinised and that can obly be done when this PC facism has been broken.

Posted by: Bob at May 4, 2004 10:56 AM

Good post, Patricia.....

D.C.

Posted by: DCWatson at May 4, 2004 11:31 AM

IMO anyone that immigrates to the US should be an AMERICAN first...after all they CHOSE to come here...anything else comes second. That call to prayer crap wouldnt go over too well where I live...lots of auto and steel workers (shift workers)...I could just see the loudspeakers getting blown off the building by some poor guy just trying to get his sleep instead being woken by some loud shrieking bafoon wailing about allah...not a chance.

Posted by: USAgirl at May 4, 2004 12:29 PM

Islam is not just a religion, it is a cult POLITICAL IDEAOLOGY that is hostile to Western principles and culture. It's facism with a self-proclaimed holy mandate. The sooner it gets treated as such, the better.

Posted by: Crusader Front at May 4, 2004 5:06 PM

Hugh- Very well stated. Unfortunately, it will only be after massive strikes with nuke/bio and chem weapons that your message will be heard.

Posted by: saynotoimams at May 4, 2004 5:08 PM

it has reached Calgary , Alberta...check:
Westernstandard.ca [ May 3 edition]

Posted by: roentgen at May 4, 2004 5:11 PM


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