When was the last time a Christian minister had a murder carried out on a fellow christian minister? Was he brought to justice, or did a bunch of christians from his congregation hole up in the church and hold off the authorities? Is it just political correctness that says these poor people aren't civilised enough to know better?

I was just thinking the guy in the top picture looked sort of like Charlie Sheen.

I wish to share a revelation I've recently head with all of you. Fact: The US is the most powerfull nation (implying corresponding military stregth) in the world. In this respect it is highly doubtfull wheather such full scale deployment of force was called for in order to pursue isolated radicals. CIA and other covert operations, combined with military resolve (not full-scale invasion) are enough to win the war on terrorism and have been habituale methods of dealing with threats to US security (involvement) abroad. The infinitely simplistic ‘liberator rhetoric’ used by soldiers as well as some of you ultimately mirrors the decrepit policy producing discourse fabricated by your Washington suzerains for wide consumption. Alas it has only hastened the polarization of the world along rapidly emerging battle lines, drawn to the drum of slogans, such as “You are either with us or against us”. Policy specifically aimed towards the 'radicallization' of US public opinion. It is to our culture's credit that attempts such as these are contested through debate and not allowed to run rampant. However for those of you who will rush to critisize the luck of free speech in the rest of the world, thus allowing for the west's positioning on moral high ground I would beg to differ. Our governments will never permit an early withdrawal from iraq. By use of any 'democratic' means possible (media, education, public perception control in other words whatever support funding can buy), they shall seek to forestall pre-drawn conclusions to the outmost by beating around the bush untill the purposes of our noble 'democracies' are served. This total disregard for our opinion (treating us like little kids) and our lives, angers me and fills my heart with sorrow. The above mentioned 'purposes' can be easily surmised in the following: US policy is geared towards control of various natural resources, namely oil. To emphasise my point I might add that in the absence of the soviet bloc, NATO is not an alliance anymore (I think it never was) but rather a US hegemony, which goes for the international community as a whole (it is under US hegemony), something repeated in history ad infinitum with the clearest example being Rome, which exported its culture and value system on the path to domination (ring some bells?). Control of middle eastern oil means having 'extra leverage' or coinage enabling you to push you weight around optimumly. Inevitably this 'leverage' is primarily directed against the European 'trading partner' (or subordinates in the hegemony), currently the only valid competitor on the global scene. Later on off course China with its rapidly increasing economic growth and insatiable thirst for oil will surely fare adequate treatment. This will impoverish European populations and keep China at bay just so there can be a TV etc in every American room. Islam and terrorism are in reality far removed from the real motives behind the attack on iraq (essentially on the oil-fields). So please cease this irrelevant talk on islamist militants that undermines intelligent thought patterns, I implore you. The great game will never stop using principle to achieve broad public acclaim. Remember to be the greatest superpower means firm control on the homefront, those two are inseparable. To control the world politically and economically first you have to dominate the American people, to wield them in unison, under the umbrella of ideology. As for those of you who continue to maintain (to what avail completely befuddles me) that muslims are bent on war and destruction I would remind you that you are posting on a site that makes no qualm of its inflamatory propaganda against islam (a ludicrous proposition for blind, misguided and misinformed people)and should be closed down (for fanaticising and fermenting ideology-bigotries) according to the censorship to which sadr's newspaper was subjected (closed down). Democracy does not signify that the only voice to be heard is that of the US. At least you should have the dignity to 'take the gloves off' as many of you proclaim and stop using the myths of 'just cause' and 'democracy', which are nothing more than fables for kindergardeners.

We have not killed enough of these murderers. These are not freedom fighters.

arxos

"... The above mentioned 'purposes' can be easily surmised in the following: US policy is geared towards control of various natural resources, namely oil."

Two points here you are overlooking:
1. By the end of what I guess I will call the First Gulf War, we could have taken - and held - the Saudi, Kuwaiti, and Iraqi oilfields.
2. We could have bought a LOT of oil for what we have spent invading Iraq.

" ... I would remind you that you are posting on a site that makes no qualm of its inflamatory propaganda against islam ..."

Propaganda? All we are doing here is quoting YOUR Islamic texts, quoting YOUR clerics, and watching the actions of YOUR fellow believers.

jay

"islam (a ludicrous proposition for blind, misguided and misinformed people)"

Nice to see some honesty for a change.

You know, when I look more closely at the opening paragraphs of the referenced article, it really seems to sum up our problem in Iraq:

A dead man lay face down on the road from Baghdad to the holy city of Kufa, spiritual heart of the Shia uprising against the Americans.

He was wearing a crumpled, camel-coloured robe and had just been killed, perhaps by a mine, by one of the area's many bandits, or by a stray American bullet.
A mob swarmed around him like wasps, intent on revenge.

It's not clear who, or what, killed the man, yet the crowd is "intent on revenge" (against US troops, no doubt).

These people are just blindly striking out at whatever target is convenient, ignorant of the fact that most of their problems are caused by their own people.

Quote: " Fact: The US is the most powerfull nation (implying corresponding military stregth) in the world. In this respect it is highly doubtfull wheather such full scale deployment of force was called for in order to pursue isolated radicals. CIA and other covert operations, combined with military resolve (not full-scale invasion) are enough to win the war on terrorism and have been habituale methods of dealing with threats to US security (involvement) abroad."

Sorry to say, but anyone that believes that dealing with terrorism is not a job for overwhelming force is nothing less than an ally of terrorism. Perpetuating myths like the above is no longer tolerable or responsible, in my view, and I would strongly suggest you realize that the United States is aware of the true nature of Islamic terror -- that it is and has always been state funded, protected, nurtured and produced and that, while part of the world rails against our actions in Iraq, other states like Iran, Syria and N. Korea are trading chemical, biological and nuclear technologies at an ever-increasing rate.

No, the real truth is, the United States hasn't used even enough force yet, but that day is coming, believe me.

The world can thank us in 100 years. If they want to spit on us today, I really don't care anymore, and I know most Americans would agree. The idea of letting up on terrorists in any form would be nothing short of cultural and national suicide.

Foehammer:

The world can thank us in 100 years. If they want to spit on us today, I really don't care anymore

Pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject, as well.

...and I know most Americans would agree.

Not so sure about that. If it were true, we wouldn't see Bush's approval rating in the mid-40 range at the moment.

The idea of letting up on terrorists in any form would be nothing short of cultural and national suicide.

Thank God we have sites like this one to help spread that message.

arxos-

try paragraphs.

-doc

Arxos,

You are correct that the United States is by far the most powerful force on the planet, military, economically, and culturally. But you are wrong on almost every other count you made.

Our CIA is extremely understaffed thanks to severe under funding of human intelligence resources over most of the previous decade. I’d like to think that the CIA could handle part of the insurgency problem, but HUMINT takes a long time to cultivate, and we don’t have the luxury of time since we want to give the Iraqis control of their country as soon as possible. In short, they aren’t capable of doing the job, at least not here and now.

Most Spec Ops forces are designed to infiltrate, gather intelligence, and exfiltrate using small units and light weaponry. While they are capable of a lot of things, they are not trained as internal security forces. They also lack the manpower to function as a police force.

Conventional forces are also not the best choice for Iraqi security. Again, they aren’t trained for police work, but until enough Iraqi police forces are trained and operational, someone has to fill the void to provide security for the average Iraqi. Hey, we don’t want to be there, but we aren’t the kind of people to leave the Iraqi people without protection from these armed gangs, either.

I’d also be very careful comparing “decrepit policies.” The only policies shared by most Arab governments are a hatred of the western world in general and Israel and the United States in particular, along with the utter indifference of the quality of the lives of their people.

Your “war for oil” argument is tired, and false. I hate to call people names arxos, but you are either very misled, or a liar, to use this argument. I expected better of you.

To be quite frank, the Middle East provides us with only a fraction of our oil. Our top suppliers of crude oil are Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and Venezuela. True, Saudi Arabia is in the Middle East, but we haven’t any plans to invade them, do we? In addition, we realize that oil is a short-term resource, and that world oil supplies are expected to dry up by 2040. We’ll be on to hydrogen by then, and we can produce that domestically without any need for an import/export market.

Perhaps that is the real reason Islamists have decided to wage war now; they are running out of time and money. If they don’t try to expand their theocracy beyond a region with a rapidly declining natural resource, they will then lose the tenuous place they have on the world stage. This war didn't start because we needed your oil. It is because you are running out of it, and are trying to spread your influence while you still have the power to do so.

That is the real reason for war, arxos. A war started by Muslim expansionism.

Arxos,

Well I’m so pleased that you had a revelation. Was this a God inspired vision or something obtained by the fact that you believe yourself to be far more intelligent then the rest of us “uninformed” simpletons. You are correct we are by far the most powerful nation ever to inhabit the planet, but by your suggestion because of this fact our interest would be best served by fighting our eyes closed and one hand behind our back because we don’t want the rest of the world to feel inferior. Throughout your rant your references to the Roman Empire in negative terms, as if the entire era of the Empire was evil and brought nothing of value to bare is Asinine to say the least.

As for simplistic and fabricated “liberator rhetoric” being used by our soldiers abroad, and trumpeted by some right wing conspirators is a slap in the face to our warriors who sacrifice on a daily bases and live below the poverty line and basic living standards. So before you run on about our evil military machine, a brotherhood you obviously have never been apart of. I suggest you do your homework about the people who serve this great country and the standard at which they are called to do so.

As for polarization of world opinion. Well I say world opinion be damned. The world cares very little about the things that are most important to me. These countries are not going to protect my children and family from individuals or groups who wish to do harm. The last time I check France, Germany, and the rest of the Euro trash do not pay Taxes in America and there for do not have a voice in our policies as they pertain to American interests and safety abroad.

As for you being angry and your heart being filled with sorrow because you as an individual feel your voice is not being heard is outrageous. You tell me how this country is to conduct its business if it took into account every single individual agenda and idea and let it mold our policy. Two hundred million plus individuals all with they own ideas, values and principals. That is why you have elected representation. Quit whining and get off your hands. But also understand because things don’t always go your way does not mean this great country of ours is going to hell. I waited patiently while Clinton raped our country of it moral value system. I didn’t cry or whine as a child because my interests were not being served. I did my part to get him unelected. It of course didn’t work and the people’s voice was heard. Now the people have spoken and chose the individuals they wish to represent them. They will speak again in November. Their will be done like it or not.

Your statement that militant Islam and terrorism is not the danger that we all perceive it to be and that it is far removed from our motivation for protecting ourselves at home by attacking these groups abroad. Well I’m sure there are well over 3000 people who would beg to differ with you if only they still had a voice. I’m reasonably sure that Mr. Berg would argue his point if he still had his head attached. Or the countless other American that lost their lives due some other group who believes their way is the only way and everyone else is wrong. Please spare us your long babbling diatribe. Your limited modern media understanding of all of these issues lacks substance and impartiality.

Hey wild hare..
Good to see you back!
: )

Bob Owens:

This war didn't start because we needed your oil. It is because you are running out of it, and are trying to spread your influence while you still have the power to do so.

An excellent point, and one that needs to be made more often.

I ran across an interview with Algerian terror leader Abu Ibrahim Mustafa in which he as much as admits it:

"The goal of this war, which they falsely called a war on terror, is to prevent the Muslims from establishing an Islamic state whose regime will be in accordance with the Qur'an and the Sunna of the Prophet, and which will constitute a source of pride and strength for the Muslims."

"The conflict in the world today is a conflict between belief and unbelief. The war in Palestine, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Algeria, in Chechnya, and in the Philippines is one war. This is a war between the camp of Islam and the camp of the Cross, to which the Americans, Zionists, Jews, their apostate allies, and others belong."

http://www.memri.de/uebersetzungen_analysen/themen/islamistische_ideologie/isl_interview_15_01_04.pdf

Thanks man :)

its more about positioning yourself into a strategic position which allows you to put pressure on the countries in that region for oil and militarily.

by having the united states in iraq its a perfect place to deliver US middle eastern foreign policy.

I personally think the oil thing is more a longterm thing then current. The US position in iraq will be of much more importance once the world oil supply starts going on the decline and superpower status will be defined on the natural resources that are under your umbrella of influence

I Killed two .....

well rejoicw and read this. Only when faced with barbarity than matches thiers do they ger the shits and run. TERRORISE THEM DON'T HUG THEM.

SCOTLAND THE BRAVE.

SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.

Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.

At least 20 men from al-Sadr’s army were believed killed in more than three hours of fighting - the highest toll reported in any single incident involving British forces in the past 12 months.

Nine fighters were captured and three British soldiers injured, none seriously.

"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."

Joseph,

You said: "I personally think the oil thing is more a longterm thing then current."

According to a Wall Street Journal article quoted by CNN, we will be out of oil, globally, by 2042.
Global shortages are expected to begin in the next ten years. Oil has nothing to do with our reason for being there, in the near future or long-term. Sorry to burst the liberal bubble.

You went on to say: "The US position in iraq will be of much more importance once the world oil supply starts going on the decline and superpower status will be defined on the natural resources that are under your umbrella of influence." (empahais added) Let's examine that statement.

Suppose you are correct and control of natural resources is the name of the game. We should then target a country with abundant natural resources. As sand and irrantional hatred do not yet pose an interest as fuels, the Middle East will not be on our primary interest for energy sources. Europe is out of the equation, as hot air is not that efficient.

But...there exists a country that produces 18% of the world's oil, 26% of the natural gas, and 23% of the coal. They should be our next target, right?

OK, boys, lets round up the troops and advance on Washington!

Nice try, Joseph.

Don't you just HAVE to admire the Scots? (Of course, being part Scottish myself makes it mandatory for me!)

Islam is the problem period... As long they believe as the Qur'an 9:29 states "Fight those who don't believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission." and Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and Kill the disbelievers whenever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of War." then we are going to have to defend our selves by going on the attack and killing them ALL, all of them before they screw up a the world's commerce end secular freedom and the full rights of women. We must destroy all of them before they destroy modern civilization.

arxos,

"As for those of you who continue to maintain (to what avail completely befuddles me) that muslims are bent on war and destruction I would remind you that ......"

You are soooooo .......... right. Muslims are not bent on war on destruction. All they want is only to make you and everybody else into good muslims, by hook or by crook.

Just ask those Christians in Egypt, Sudan, Indonesia etc. etc.

You know something? Before you form an opinion, any opinion, do ask the people who know the most of the subject. In this case, ask the people who live as a minority in a moslem majority country.

Get off the "war for oil" BS already.

BTW, in addition to all the natural resources found in the US that Bob mentioned, we sit on top of a vast amount of oil shale. It isn't as cheap to produce products from it, but we have petroleum alternatives to oil that haven't even been tapped. The death of petroleum as energy isn't going to occur in 2042, we'll just extract it a different way while we gear up to hydrogen power.

Can't stomach the truth, can we? Ohh you can't stand the thought of your beloved 'democracy' elevated to world-bully status, like little kids in the play ground only seeing shades of black and white. Well my frieds the joke is on you because the US is the World's no1 terrorist organization. And after all the tough-talk of 'taking of the glove'..'nuke em' etc.

You should really view US involvement as a long term 'investment' as I stated above and not a momentous 'grab' for oil but rather a prolonged rape of the world (optimum strategy) just as would be the case with any superpower looking out for its interests devoid of any ethics, in the conventional sense that is.

Joseph,
At last, thank god, light and reason at the end of the tunnel.

Arxos:

*yawn*

Let me know when you say something meaningful, okay?

By the way, nobady replied to my comment on Europe and China...hint, hint!

Arxos:

By the way, nobady replied to my comment on Europe and China...hint, hint!

Probably because nobody thought it was worth the effort.

I'm sure you can find someone in your freshman Poli Sci class who will play with you, though.

"The US government's motivation in invading Iraq is 'controlling oil'." How?

Right now, oil revenues from Iraq are far below what Iraq is capable of (not a lot of cash to draw on there). Even if the US steals it all, which they can't because there is an International Watch Dog organization overseeing production, sales and deposits into an Iraqi fund, the money won't go that far in helping America with a 60 billion dollar bill for the war and climbing.

So, maybe 'controlling things' in the future for the big payoff? It will take years to improve infrastructure for oil production. Maybe the US plans to keep a couple of hundred thousand troops there for a decade and a puppet government. Drats, Bush won't be president anymore, Iraq will have its own government and American wouldn't tolerate that. Its hard enough keeping up support for occupation for a year.

Maybe the US just wants the country to pump the darn stuff. Well, Saddam Hussein could have done that...and the US will have to pay for it like everyone else. Finally, you never know what an independent goverment with such a complex cultural, religious society will do. What rational person would commit a couple of hundred thousand troops and an uncertain outcome for a long term bet like that?

If we assume Bush is even a bigger idiot than his opponents think he is, there can be no rational motive for war to 'control oil' beyond simply not wanting billions of dollar NOT to end up in the hands of a guy like Hussein.

That might be one reason for war...but it has nothing to do with control but more with prevention...And preventing a tyrannt and terrorists from harming American and world is what Bush has been talking about all along. The issue is whether or not the threat was sufficient to justify this level of action...and that can be debated. But the oil argument only makes sense to the irrational, conspiratorial mind...

At the rate these Sadr losers are piling
up they may need to clime up the Golden McMuslim
arch's and change the sign reading 1.2 Billion
served.
It's getting very tough for Muslims to
convince non-Muslims of the peaceful nature of Islam.

KNOW ISLAM - NO PEACE

To use a mosque or any house of worship to hide out in and then fire at people is disgusting and against God. And most would not put up with it either. The fact that it is allowed to happen in the mosques tells me that it is more than allowed, it is an acceptable way of life. To me this establishes the point that violence is the norm in the Islam faith. IF these soldiers were NOT allowed to hide out or hide their weapons in what is supposed to be a house of pray, then that would be a different story but that isn't the case now is it? It's all there in black and white.

Arab summit President of Brairhan says the Arabs want Jerusalem As the capital of the Arabs? Does not this tell the USA where the Arabs stand? Arafat says that Israel has always been Arab land and will be again. Arafat left out what God did to the Arabs for the Enslavement of the Jewish people and the curse that was put upon them even the Qur-an talks about this curse in 5:32! We here in the USA Can’t hear the Arab lies any more! If you Arab lovers love them and their hate so much go live in their land and get out of the USA. Will the Arab world keep support-ing Arafat? He will bring them down? We the American people will farm our land not for food for the world but for our cars, this is doable! We will use our grains to fuel our cars can the Arabs eat oil? Let Russia and China feed them! The EU now wants to use our bio seed , I say no make your own! We the American people can not hear you any more. We are closing our hearts for lack of sorry for your ways to kill Christians around the world and Jews too! The dancing and killing Americans in Iraq show the American people what you are About and it is not peace. We will forgive ourselves for what you make us do like our Grandparents had to do in WW2. We are Winning this war we do have the upper hand do not for get that. The American press does not speak for the American People neither does France or Hollywood .
Look at Arafat’s hands he has liver problems. More Christians Killed in Pask.and Kasmar today

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\U_S_ Embassy Media Coverage of Iraq Increases Risk of Terrorism.htm

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS the UN jordain who killed the Americans in Kosovo sayes he did kill because he didn't get enough sleep? Well I want a sorry from the King and no more MONET until we get it!!! I can't hear you!!!!

MONEY

Arxos,

Because you vomit it out the party line does not make it the truth. Again your rant leans towards generalized America hating. We have grown very accustomed to this and rarely are they followed up with any validity. You get your information from extremely unreliable sources and you pass it on like a bunch of childish ear whisperers.

You have not said anything that we have not heard. There is no dynamic revelation that makes all of us here say, OMG you’re so right and we are so wrong. Please lead us from our dark world with your light of insightfulness.

You will find that most here do not care about the title of world bully. A blinding flash of the obvious I know, but with powers, come privilege. And again I say I do not care what the world thinks. We should on no terms try to be friends with the entire world, nor do I want countries that do not have American interest at heart effecting our policy making. If you want to help us and help your selves then welcome. If you want to undermine America for the mere fact that you hate us of out some childish jealousy issue, then you can stand there pissing yourself when the war is brought to your country. Just do not ask for help when it does.

These ethics you are referring to. Would those include Frances ethical behavior with regards to the Oil for Food program, the ethics of oil for arms with the soviets or perhaps Sadam’s chemical attack that left thousands of his fellow countrymen dead while the majority of world pretended it didn't happen? Perhaps you are talking about the ethical standard of funneling of weapons into Israel by countries such as Egypt, Syria, and Iran to be used against civilians because it serves their political agenda. Or at the other end of the spectrum you are referring the counter culture here in America that is flooding almost every aspect of our media with disinformation because they can not stand the fact that we have a president that they can’t control even if it means the cost of American lives. Please do not speak ethics; you obviously know nothing of ethics, loyalty and integrity.

BOB OWENS,
You are my hero!!!
You never fail to blast the bs right out of the box.

arxos,

You have converted me. You are right. We are such a world bully. Let me tell the others of the evil things my country does to the world!

In 2003, we force-fed $11.4 billion dollars of economic aid to developing countries last year, whether they wanted it, or n… well, they wanted it. I guess that isn’t the best example.

In 2004, the US is providing some form of foreign assistance to 150 countries. The Zionist plot provides Israel with a large cut of that… but please forget that Egypt gets about the same amount, and has since the 1970s. Okay, still looking…

We also provide foreign aid to Jordan and the Palestinians. I guess that slipped my mind as well.

Secret Zionist documents (located on the web at http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf ) detail five points of our government’s evil plan, including:

“promoting transformational government.
Strengthening fragile states.
Providing humanitarian assistance.
Supporting our geo-strategic interests,”

and finally, horror of horrors,

“mitigating global and international ills, including HIV/AIDs.”

Oh, the humanity! See the terrorist intent?

And the United States is so devious! I found a list of the state sponsors of terrorism. While Cuba, Iraq (uh, scratch that), Iran, Libya (uh, scratch that one, too), North Korea, Sudan and Syria are on the list, the United States is nowhere to be found! IT must be part of a plot.

arxos could not be more right on US plans to rape the world. The fact that every major global environmental group has offices there is just a cover! We should all take lessons from that famous Muslim environmental group… ah, I forgot their name. Let me do a Google search on “ Muslim environmental groups.” Well, what do you know, the first result is: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836362/posts More Zionist propaganda!

Arrgh!

Thank Allah (Isn’t that who you meant?) I can see the light at the end of the tunnel…

What do you mean it’s a train?

When the libs try to tell you all of europe loved billy and this would not be happening if we had gore or kerry here is some thing you who only had commie news network for your info may not have known??

Part of the American Tribe

Saturday, 20 November, 1999, 01:40 GMT
Violence greets Clinton visit

Protesters set dozens of shops ablaze

Thousands of left-wing protesters chanting anti-American slogans have clashed with police and set dozens of shops ablaze at the start of a delayed state visit by US President Bill Clinton to Athens.

Riot police used teargas against thousands of left-wing protesters who had gathered in the central Syndagma Square outside the parliament in Athens, after a small group threatened to storm the building.

As the crowd fled through surrounding streets, fires were started in rubbish bins and some shop windows smashed.

Members of the media were injured in the violence
At least three people were reported to have blood on their heads.

The trouble, which the authorities blamed on anarchists, broke out almost exactly as Mr Clinton touched down at Athens airport.

His visit was originally scheduled for last weekend, but was delayed and shortened from three days to one following a series of anti-American protests.

Greek dislike of the US is based partly on Washington's perceived backing of Greece's traditional enemy Turkey. It was fuelled more recently by Nato's offensive against Yugoslavia.

The Greek Public Order Ministry has staged an unprecedented security operation to protect Mr Clinton, deploying some 7,000 police, backed by 400 FBI agents, across the city.

It has closed 12 miles of central Athens' usually-congested streets for the entire day, with bus routes altered for two days.

It banned protesters from rallying near the airport, anywhere along the seaside boulevard linking the airport to central Athens, and a triangular area housing the US embassy and other official buildings.

The security arrangements seemed to anger protesters further.

The Greek Communist Party and two other small left-wing opposition parties urged demonstrators to test police barriers and march to the US Embassy.

Rallies were also planned in other Greek cities, and more than 2,000 protesters burned American flags outside the US Consulate on the northern port of Thessaloniki.

Clinton 'a friend'

Speaking as he disembarked form Air Force One, Mr Clinton said he came to Greece as a "friend" of the country.

"I have come here as a 'philhellene' - a friend of Greece - and I look forward to experiencing that wonderful quality of Greek hospitality known to all the world," he said.

"We look to ancient Greece for inspiration, but we look to modern Greece for leadership and partnership."

Earlier, Mr Clinton had said people should be able to show their feelings.

"Greece is the world's oldest democracy. If people want to protest, they ought to have a chance to do it," he said at a press conference in Turkey.

He also reminded journalists that he had been trying to generate a peace initiative between Greece and Turkey, over the divided island of Cyprus.

"The Greek people and the government should be quite encouraged by this new Cyprus initiative, and by the fact that I found a receptive ear [in Turkey] on three separate occasions when I spoke ... about the necessity of the Turkish people and the Greeks being reconciled," he said.

Because of his new programme, President Clinton's experience of Athens will largely be confined to a high-rise hotel near the airport.

He, his wife Hillary and daughter Chelsea were due to meet Greek leaders behind a cordon of riot police, before travelling on to Florence.

Remember WW2 was not easy and we lost over 400,000 great young men but we won on 2 frounts and we will win this war we are fighting on many fronts and we are the GrandChildren of the WW2 genaration.

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and all who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

"there is a slight competion problem for the raw material, which as you might suspect, is being used in the by product rendering industry... "

You know, that might go a long way towards answering "motive" in a weird robbery I heard about in the midwest last week. Several Fast food joints had been robbed of a tremendous amount of used oil, something in the range of five thousand gallons. If someone was using it as fuel, it would be a lot less worrisome than, say, this story:

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=28242

That is just creepy.

Wild Hare:

So good to see you back!

I love it, the above speakers said everything I wanted to say, but didn't think it would be appreciated for slam-dunking these camel jockeys. Arabs, Mohammed, and allia, koran and every way they think is absurd. These arabs are from lucifer, thier all devil worshipers. They wish bad luck to the whole world except thierselves, they want the world just like lucifer wants to take the place of God, it's not going to happen you muslim demons, were taking care of you to help God from fooling with such garbage. Most all arabs are on thier way to hell for eternity thank God.

Thank you John, for your voice of moderation...

Bob
Are you thinking of the Fertelizer and oil wow! you are thinking out of the box, and remember the tanker too!
James Brown still LOL

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Arxos;

After reading your comments, I felt compelled to respond. You stated that America is the world's largest terrorist organization. Are you aware that Palestinians shoot their own children so they can blame the Israelis for it?

I have to tell you. You honestly won't see how inflammatory some of our comments can be, because like the U.S., we'll take the high road and let Muslims and Jihad supporters prove our point for us, like you did with your brainwashed comments.

Think what you will, Jihad is taking a beating all over the globe, and will be wiped out. Like it or not, facts are facts. You're heroes, the Islamic Jihad lunatics started this, and so we shall end it.

Muslims-machetes The West-state of the art military personnel and equipment.

Give it some thought, live in peace, or don't live at all.

DCW
You forgot to tell him we will never give up our beer and wine and short skirts. This was tried once before in America and the fight was won by the People.

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Arxos:

If the Iraq war was about oil, the US could have just stayed at home and spent the money that they have spent and will spend on this war on oil. So far the US has spent about $100 Billion dollars and before all has been said and done, they may spend upwards of $300 Billion dollars. So, let's do the math. At current prices of $40 a barrel, $300 Billion dollars would be 75 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL! By contrast, the strategic oil reserve contains currently about 600 million barrels of oil (http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/spr.html). Again, if we do the math then, if my estimate of what the US will eventually spend on Iraq comes close to $300 Billion, then the US could have purchased the equivalent of 125 strategic oil reserves.

Finally, if the US just wanted oil, they could have just invaded Canada. Including the oil sands, Canada has proven reserves of 180 billion barrels which is greater than that of Iraq. (http://www.rense.com/general37/petrol.htm)

arxos

This is for you and the rest of the islamonazis just waiting for my military to send you to hell:

I AM AN AMERICAN

I owe you no apologies nor will I accept those apologies made for me by others

If you dislike me--you dislike me not for what I am but for what you are not. By my own sweat, I have created a lifestyle, which I desire for all men.

To the world I have shared my wealth and given my blood, not because of obligation--but by my own free will. I have fed the hungry of the world. Many bit my hand; I used the other hand.

I defeated my enemies in battle, then pulled them up for the ashes of defeat. Once strong, they again attacked; I turned the other cheek. Though I am strong, I have never used my strength to rule others. But do not misjudge me, I will not allow the fear of my own strength to become my weakness.

If you wish to rise, I will give you a helping hand. But by the grace of God, and I'll first be damned, if I'll let you drag me down so that we may be equal.

D. Ault

Dedicated to the Veterans of the Armed Forces of the United States of America

God Bless America, our troops, and Mr. Bush.

Periodic violence, punctuated by sporadic bombings and assassinations, continue in Iraq. There looks to be a view in America that though a goodly number of Iraqis are working with the Coalition (granting that a quantity of these are doing so purely for the dollars), conclusively, no “critical mass” of them are aligning themselves with its liberating objectives and conducting themselves accordingly - even conceding that a fair proportion of these foot-draggers are closing their eyes and keeping silent because they’re cowed by their local, intrusive, Islamo-fascist gang.

Logically, if a bare sufficiency of Iraqi citizens had stood up, to an adequate degree, frequently enough and in the right places - through over a year’s length of opportunity - then the level of terrorism in the country would have been greatly reduced. Crushing the various terrorists in Iraq can never be attained without at least some measure of the Iraqi people’s assistance.

However, the “resistance” grinds on, largely because, to date, many Iraqis are not furthering their own advancement by actively opposing it. Thus, effectively, they’re rebuffing the offer of peace, freedom and prosperity extended to them by the Allies, opting instead for mayhem and chaos. At this juncture, putting it charitably, it’s said that the majority of Iraqis aren’t ready for democracy.

Therefore a non-democratic form of rule - or murderous anarchy - must become their sorry lot. Accordingly, the minimum acceptable would be an authoritarian government that’s at least not anti-Western, not Jihadi nor Arab supremacist - crucially, under someone not as bad as Saddam.

One day, it’s hoped, the Iraqis could wake up and follow this dictator with a democracy. If and when it arrives, the West ought to cheer this positive development, but at this stage it’s too early to envisage. If Iraq has to become a dictatorship again, the quest to smash Islamo-fascism there - and regionally - has been “a bridge too far”, against insuperable odds (especially with dark forces operating within the élites of the West on its behalf). New ways will need to be urgently found to counter Islamo-fascism - the “War on Terror”’s barely kicked off with such a grave reversal….

I found this site obliquely; I've read your commentaries and please allow me a few thoughts. All borders of Islam are at war. The Balkans, Chechniya, Kashmir, the Sudan, Nigeria, Bali in Indonesia, which is still largely Hindu, the Philippines, going on for thirty or more years, fears in France, Germany, Britain and now I hear about Denmark and Ireland. Spain has been terrorized, as of course New York. Moscow has also been targeted. Israel has been terrorized regularly. The news lately that Ontario, Canada, will consider Sharia law and Hamitrack, Michigan will allow Muslim calls to prayer to be broadcast while across this country Christian symbols and celebrations are discouraged, I find alarming. Hilaire Belloc wrote of the Mohammedan cult in the 1930's and I suggest we all read or reread it. All religions have problems, heresies that are ironed out, that religions must come to grips with and reform themselves. I don't find this so with Islam. The expansion of Islam has been violent and coercive and caused the extinction of ethnic identities where ever it has gone.

Theresa needs a big kick in the ass for her stupid remarks....

Your a vintage 2004 American...violent, fascist,

no respect for human values,

* How many people in jail now...say 2 million now; how many thousands are awaiting execution in sordid 17th Century style jails where prison wardens do what they want with the inmates (we have 200,000 more prison wardens and some of those are practising in Iraq....)

* Constitutional rights being trampled on as if they were dirt (Guantanamo, Padilla, Patriot Act).People can be arrested under ANY pretense (suspicious behavior is what its called in the Patriots Act), without being brought before a judge and kept incommunicado and locked away in "cachots" or windowless cells..hey this is stuff of Revolutions..its what brought on the US and French revolution...(hint: maybe thats what we need in America to be reborn...yes a new revolution...

give me liberty or give me death...said Patrick Henry...still valid today...true Americans will fight for their liberties....down to the last drop of their blood.

* 40 million people with no health care
* Old age homes are like death traps and the elderly abandoned and forgotten...
* Disparities betwen rich and poor never greater
* A regime that was not elected but appointed by the Supreme court...
* America totally in the hands of a few big Corporations
* Teenagers committing suicide as they never have before (when they are not machine gunning their classmates)

and all this to proect Americas cherished values...Well..I have news they have been destroyed and thats why we have the above which you seem to not see (are you blind or something) and will have to be reinvented..if there is time

*Wrapped eternally in the Stars and Stripes. Totally unaware as to what REALLY is going on. Wake up for God's sake...WAKE UP

Sorry, friend im American vintage 1964 and thats not what America was about then...but true the United States Titanic hadn't hit THE iceberg as it has now...its still 2 am....

Dammages havent been fully assessed..

Brave new worlds...

We will wait till elections...but our patience is not eternal....

And if you listen quietly, kids, you can hear a troll under the bridge, ranting to the fish...

Hernand Behn:

Have you ever LIVED anywhere else? Have you ever lived anywhere BETTER than here? If so, you may want to consider going back permanently - they may even want you there.

I just gotta say, those guys have some seriously talented graphic artists working for them. The sign that guy's hiding behind is realy something.

decency,

"Hernand Behn" is the alias of an socialist liberal expatriate living in Barcelona, Spain. He apparently took the "love it or leave it" advice seriously.

ksoeze,

That isn't nearly as interesting as the OBL posters with Bert from Seseme Street in the background.

"Theresa needs a big kick in the ass for her stupid remarks...."

Really Hernand. By your name I would guess german? You don't have the balls to come and kick me in the ass you pacifist jerk. People like you are the reason the islamonazis have overrun europe and trying to do the same in my great country. A mosque at every street corner, isn't that right hern? Nasty, dirty homes and streets will soon be the norm in your beloved fatherland. Good luck with that. Won't happen in my country thank God. This one's for you hern and all like you. God Bless America, our troops, and Mr Bush. May he be reelected and continue his OUTSTANDING policy of taking the fight to the enemy.

Hern

Here's another one for you. A true American hero and doing an OUTSTANDING job of killing the enemy. Enjoy:

Maybe you'd like to hear about something other than idiot Reservists and naked Iraqis.

Maybe you'd like to hear about a real American, somebody who honored the uniform he wears.

Meet Brian Chontosh.

Churchville-Chili Central School class of 1991. Proud graduate of the Rochester Institute of Technology. Husband and about-to-be father. First lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps.

And a genuine hero.

The secretary of the Navy said so yesterday.

At 29 Palms in California Brian Chontosh was presented with the Navy Cross, the second highest award for combat bravery the United States can bestow.

That's a big deal.

But you won't see it on the network news tonight, and all you read in Brian's hometown newspaper was two paragraphs of nothing. Instead, it was more blather about some mental defective MPs who acted like animals.

The odd fact about the American media in this war is that it's not covering the American military. The most plugged-in nation in the world is receiving virtually no true information about what its warriors are doing.

Oh, sure, there's a body count. We know how many Americans have fallen. And we see those same casket pictures day in and day out. And we're almost on a first-name basis with the pukes who abused the Iraqi prisoners. And we know all about improvised explosive devices and how we lost Fallujah and what Arab public-opinion polls say about us and how the world hates us.

We get a non-stop feed of gloom and doom.

But we don't hear about the heroes.

The incredibly brave GIs who honorably do their duty. The ones our grandparents would have carried on their shoulders down Fifth Avenue.

The ones we completely ignore.

Like Brian Chontosh.

It was a year ago on the march into Baghdad. Brian Chontosh was a platoon leader rolling up Highway 1 in a humvee.

When all hell broke loose.

Ambush city.

The young Marines were being cut to ribbons. Mortars, machine guns, rocket propelled grenades. And the kid out of Churchville was in charge. It was do or die and it was up to him.

So he moved to the side of his column, looking for a way to lead his men to safety. As he tried to poke a hole through the Iraqi line his humvee came under direct enemy machine gun fire.

It was fish in a barrel and the Marines were the fish.

And Brian Chontosh gave the order to attack. He told his driver to floor the humvee directly at the machine gun emplacement that was firing at them. And he had the guy on top with the .50 cal unload on them.

Within moments there were Iraqis slumped across the machine gun and Chontosh was still advancing, ordering his driver now to take the humvee directly into the Iraqi trench that was attacking his Marines. Over into the battlement the humvee went and out the door Brian Chontosh bailed, carrying an M16 and a Beretta and 228 years of Marine Corps pride.

And he ran down the trench.

With its mortars and riflemen, machineguns and grenadiers.

And he killed them all.

He fought with the M16 until it was out of ammo. Then he fought with the Beretta until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up a dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo. Then he picked up another dead man's AK47 and fought with that until it was out of ammo.

At one point he even fired a discarded Iraqi RPG into an enemy cluster, sending attackers flying with its grenade explosion.

When he was done Brian Chontosh had cleared 200 yards of entrenched Iraqis from his platoon's flank. He had killed more than 20 and wounded at least as many more.

But that's probably not how he would tell it.

He would probably merely say that his Marines were in trouble, and he got them out of trouble. Hoo-ah, and drive on.

"By his outstanding display of decisive leadership, unlimited courage in the face of heavy enemy fire, and utmost devotion to duty, 1st Lt. Chontosh reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service."

That's what the citation says.

And that's what nobody will hear.

That's what doesn't seem to be making the evening news. Accounts of American valor are dismissed by the press as propaganda, yet accounts of American difficulties are heralded as objectivity. It makes you wonder if the role of the media is to inform, or to depress - to report or to deride. To tell the truth, or to feed us lies.

But I guess it doesn't matter.

We're going to turn out all right.

As long as men like Brian Chontosh wear our uniform.

God Bless America, our troops, and Mr. Bush.

"Theresa needs a big kick in the ass for her stupid remarks...."

Posted by Hernand Behn at May 25, 2004 06:32 AM

What is this trash? Hernand, it's bad enough that Muslim men want to beat on women......So, with that being said, if you feel the need to kick someone, literally or just as figure of speech, bring your foot my way. I'll deal with your foolishness, and educate you in the process. You're the prime example of the "looney left" everyone talks about.

Liberties do us no good if we're all dead. They do us no good under sharia law. Now, who really needs a boot in their ass?

I read your comments and you sound like a very unhappy little man. Wise up.

i am a practicing christain, and i would just like to tell all of my fellow christians that the majority of muslims are not bad people and, believe it or not, they worship the Hebrew God, just like us. the 2 main reasons that an ever increasing number of them hate America is the fact that we support Israel, and our military and political interventions in their affairs. we will never be able to defeat Islamic extremism through military action without becoming as bad as the Nazis (that is not to say that we couldn't).

"i am a practicing christain, and i would just like to tell all of my fellow christians that the majority of muslims are not bad people and, believe it or not, they worship the Hebrew God, just like us."

Allah, the last I checked, is not a Jew. But I don't think I'm qualifed to answer this.

Mahmoud, Reza, you want to answer this?