A Brother gave me a new book today after our Friday Prayer. It's from an australian writer Julian Ninio. The book is called "The Empire of Ignorance, Hypocrisy and Obedience". It's really amazing to see how normal americans are having so much problems with everyday's social and economical issues in their life. I've learned that america have one child in six living in poverty, more than 2 millions in jail and one household in thirteen lives in a trailer. why don't admit? no no - that would be un-american, untill someone confront you with the proof to your main problems, in this case an australian!!and like always I once again thanked Allah for beeing a muslim and not living in poverty in a Kufr place. It makes me more and more suspicious about your "reconstruction plans" in Iraq why you have still major problems inside your own place. No wonder why so much americans are converting to Islam to answer Almighty Allah(swt)words. Your corrupted rulers are making false enemy for you to stop Allah's mercy for all brothers and sisters. Please wake up and see your real enemy which one day will eat you from inside unless you are awake. Looking for capturing our Mujahedeen Brothers will not help you any good. You are looking for enemy in Muslim world while your real enemy is in washington : White House.

America - Learn to Fix it.

Mahmoud,
That was well said. Yes we have our problems. IMHOO, we are very likely headed for a big blowout in our country, witness the LA riots some years ago, for example.
However, we prefer the slower, more muddled route to fixing things; generally, blowing up people and places, shooting men, women and children, gutting persons we feel are informers, then carrying body parts through streets & dragging bodies naked behind cars are NOT our way of fixing problems.
I don't think anyone here, or in the world would argue that Iraq shouldn't be allowed to fix her own problems...it's just the menthods people object to.

Two million in jail? I'm not sure that it Doubled in the last few years, last I heard was around 1 million. Either way that is still less than One percent.... one wonders what % we would find if we look in the jails of Iran, Lybia, Saudi Arabia.... (not to mention China, Russia...) My guess? Much, much higher. And don't give me the 'less population' idiocy. Lets hear Percentage.

Damra is quoted as saying "if what they mean by jihad is terrorism, then we are terrorists." But if the word "terrorism" continues idiotically to be employed -- no matter how many times it is pointed out that "terrorism" is merely a tactic, an instrument, a tool of the larger war, which is a classic Jihad-war against non-Muslims, this one on a world-scale (with disparate local expressions, from the Jihad against Israel, to that in southern Sudan, to that in Kashmir, to the Moluccas and Sulawesi, to the Moro Islands, and with its attendant imposition of shari'a on non-Muslims, as in northern Nigeria) -- we will continue to fail to identify the problem. It is Jihad, with all of its many instruments.

The "wealth" of the Saudis that has bought up hirelings among the Western ambassadors (see the list of recent signatories to the twin documents of disgrace, by a host of such hirelings in both America and England, which simply parrot Arab insistence that as soon as the little matter of Israel is cleared up to Arab satisfaction, there will be no further disruption in the otherwise perfectly harmonious relations between Islam and the rest of the world), is another instrument.

The Jihad has never disappeared from the world; the 19th and 20th centuries are full of Jihads. But how few of them are known. Think of the list of unknown Jihads: that of Abdel Kader in Algeria, or the 1869 Patna Conspiracy, a Jihad that was delcared specifically against the Sikhs, and later extended to the Hindus; or the Jihad of Muslim Turks and Kurds against the "giavour" (the word keeps coming up, as being uttered by the murdering Muslims, in every Armenian survivor's account), or "Infidel" Armenians; the Jihad formally declared in 1915, and not released, by the British Foreign Office, until just a few years ago. The Jihad against Israel, an absolutely classic case -- for what is Israel if not an Infidel sovereign state on land which is particularly important to recover as it was once part of dar al-Islam.

The greatest weapon of Jihad today, in order to spread Islam and ultimately to subjugate the non-Muslims, is the demographic invasion. Everything that makes that invasion easier, everything that makes the conduct of a Muslim life -- the mosques and madrasas, funded by Saudi Arabia -- more accessible, is a danger to non-Muslims.

It is entirely possible that terrorism will die down, or that non-Muslims will adjust to a low level. So what? That does not end, for nothing can end, the ideology of Jihad. That is the most fearful prospect: the slow steady takeover through migration, overbreeding, and within the dar al-Harb, since every Muslim is to be engaged in missionary activity, daw'a, which has particular appeal to the psychically and economically marginal -- those who wish to find a community that will endow their own lives with meaning, and also serve as a vehicle for their resentments and alientation. Islam fits the bill.

Damra's statement might be reversed: "if what they mean by terrorism is Jihad, then we are terrorists." It is Jihad itself that represents the threat, and not merely terrorism. When he says that those who do not go to fight, but supply money, are Jihadis, he is right. And those who build madrasas, mosques, fight tooth and nail against any inquiry into the nature of Islam, its tenets and its history, are also engaged in Jihad -- whether or not they are Muslims. All those who engage in Jihad are a threat, if Jihad is properly understood, and Islam as a system of irrational mental constraint is properly understood, to all that is best in civilization: unfettered artistic expression (limited in Islam to calligraphy and architecture, and a handful of poets, most of whom were perilously close to unorthodoxy themselves), and free and skeptical inquiry (there are no Humes, no Spinozas, no Oakeshotts in Islam, and there never can be; it is an entirely closed mental system, which stunts intellectual growth like nothing else).

Mahmoud:

You address us as if all of us are American. Naturally, this being a globally accessible site (except for in Islamic dictatorships, I imagine), the audience and group of commentators is widely diverse, except in their opposition to radical Islam.

Anyway, I've observed that your pattern on this site is to bring up irrelevant arguments in order to draw attention away from the very pertinent issues at hand. For instance, your repeated harping on the genocide and ill treatment of American Indians is totally transparent.

This isn't an issue of who's to blame for social ills. Everyone has their share of them. Welcome to the real world. The point is that Islamic radicalism is a significant threat to a huge portion of the world's population, including yourself. If you think Islamic justice and jurisprudence are so hunky-dory, go live in Fallujah, where the clerics are already starting to enforce Taliban Junior style laws and ordinances.

At least have the decency to post meaningful, topical posts on this board. Ad hominem attacks on American posters are pointless, and not everyone support's Bush's initiatives. Personally, I think "Copper Green" may ultimately cost many more American lives than it saves, not to mention the immorality and ineffectiveness of its methods.

Mahmoud: Many more non-Muslims now understand the tactics of taqiyya and kitman. Your posts are example of these tactics. Be aware that we know.

Ananda,
Thank you for showing your respect to Native Americans by calling my cry for their fate "transparent". This is how most westerners try to cover up their genocides. forgetting it.
And now looking for another soul-less expansion in Our Muslim world. If my post are looking dirty to you, it's your own past and present. deal with it before causing more suffer and pain for Our Muslim brothers and sisters

Yes, there are problems in the Western World but we sure as hell don't need Islam to fix them!! What a joke!! You are really delusional!!

What America is doing in the middle east is their own form of Jihad(however twisted it may be). Why else would they move half way across the world to bomb people & lands to smitherines. It is true many Muslims have the wrong approach to Jihad. All I ask is ... what would you do if a foreign country occupied your land, constantly murdered your sons daughters neighbours ...

Jihad is the right of every living being who is oppressed. I would attack my oppressor without hesitation to defend myself.

Ultimately God will bear reveal who's Jihad is misguided.

Robert:

mahmoud is an utter waste of bandwidth. please act as you see fit.

Fellow JW posters:

Read his gibberish if you like, but remember the prime directive of BBSs: "Don't feed the trolls"! mahmoud, like all of his ilk, will then soon wander off into the ether to waste others' bandwidth.

Mahmoud:

Little man, I realize that in your cult they teach you that repeating things over and over again will "make it so". No need to think, debate - just follow the rules. WE ARE NOT BUYING YOUR PROPAGANDA - everyone here knows better. I feel like we're all grad students debating a kindergardener that just won't "get it". I will no longer respond to you or Reza and I hope that most of my colleagues will do the same. You HAVE enlightened us, however, about just how primitive the Muslim mindset truly is. If you truly knew how foolish you seem to us, you would be embarassed and ashamed.

Don't bother replying, because I will simply be skipping over your posts (and Reza's) from now on.

Because this keeps coming up here, these are the statistics of Muslims in U.S.:

The American Muslim Council (AMC) in Washington, DC states that American Muslims have the following origins: Middle Eastern Arabs, 26.2%; South Asian (countries from Iran to Bangladesh), 24.7%; American blacks, 23.8%; non-Arabs from the Middle East (mostly Turkish), 10.3%; East Asia (Indonesia, China, etc.), 6.4%; other, (white American converts, Europeans, sub-Saharan Aricans, 11.6%.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/muslims1.html

Here is the population breakdown in the U.S. by these categories: White 80%; Black 12.7%; American Indian 1.0%; Asian 4.0%; Native American Pacific Islander 0.2%; 2 or more races 1.5%; Latino 13.4%

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

Of the estimated 5 to 6 million Muslims in the United States, two-thirds of these are immigrants. One also has to figure in birth rates within the community and "conversions" due to marriage. I don't have these statistics at the moment...maybe others do.

The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.
Proverbs 12:22

Truthful lips endure forever,
but a lying tongue lasts only a moment.
Proverbs 12:19

SR

Nomad:

You are also on my "skip" list, as well as all other nonsensical Muslim posters.

Hugh:

Don't you think it is possible that resolving the Arab/Israeli conflict combined with reforms in the Middle East would cut down on radical Islam's ability to recruit more young people to their cause? I understand that the philosophy of Jihad would not disappear, but maybe it would take some of the "wind" out of their sails. If young people have some real hope in their lives, something to look forward to, wouldn't they be less likely to be attracted to waging Jihad against the West?

My Dear Dhimmi Brother CGW,
Can you please tell me how exactly you will "skip" my posts? Moveable Types 2.6? Do i see a login form? Do you think i buy your lies? If you like to ignore Almighty Allahs words (swt) do so, but please don't mislead others to put cottons on their ears to not listenong to Allah's call for devine peace and mercy all around the world.

CGW,
Thanks a lot for the comments about Reza and Mahmoud, they are too stupid to reason, to ignorant to learn, too dogmatic to diverse.
We should leave them to their folly! I have noticed that Mahmoud has been repeating the same thing over and over again, like a dumb, he needs to reason and face what this discussion is about. Just as you've said, his case is like teaching a primary school kid who is not a genious how to understand electron diffraction patterns, solid state physics or quantum mechanics!

May 28, 2004
Iran earthquake Wow?
Proof they can not live let live, Beheading of three Children in Maryland! Did not John Mohammod have a refuge in that area ? Lets us see if this is because she was converting to Christianity? If the press will point this out will be interesting ?
http://www.newsmax.com/printer.cfm?page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/28/102753.shtml
Malaysia Arrests Key Figure in Nuclear Trafficking
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, May 28, 2004
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – A Sri Lankan businessman accused of brokering black market deals for nuclear technology was arrested Friday in Malaysia, government officials said.
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, May 27, 2004Now, the Pentagon wants the Clean Air Act amended so any extra air pollution from training exercises wouldn't count for three years in states' plans for meeting federal requirements. It also is seeking changes that would let the military avoid cleaning up land of munitions used for normal purposes on operational ranges.
Part of the American Tribe

What do you think is important the greenies or the defence of these United States???

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Mahmoud,

Always using objective sources, aren’t you? Before you start citing Julian Ninio, perhaps you should look at into his credibility and objectivity.

Born in France and brought up as a liberal California flower child, Ninio is a Noam Chomsky-quoting progressive expatriate trying to get Australian citizenship. Politically, he’s out with the “Als.” You know. Gore. Jazeera. But we know that objectivity is not exactly your strongpoint, nor is fact.

But guess what? Those numbers you cite? I’ll admit it.

Yes, one in six children live below our poverty level, a statistic in this instance placed at $15,260 by a very reputable survey done by the US Dept. of Health and Human Services in 2003, using a family of three as a baseline. A lot of Americans consider poverty as having only one television and a dial-up internet connection, and just one late-model car.

In the Arab world, the average wages are about $300/year per person. As Muslim men are insecure of their manhood and require their wives to stay home, there is typically only one income.

A “poverty level” American family could therefore support 50.87 Arab families. Do you care to continue?

We have 2 million people in jail? Fine. That number is accurate. Muslim countries have 485,290+ in prisons. “Ah-HA!” I’m sure you’re thinking. Not so fast. According to the same statistics, Islam has put to death far more than that number, exceeding 300,000 in Iraq alone. Yeah, we have more living people in our prisons, you just murder more of yours.

Now trailers. A slice of “hillbilly heaven.” So we have people living in trailers. So what? Do you know what passes for “trailers” in the United States? I’ll post a few web links so you can see what a “trailer” is in the United States.

http://www.clayton.net/

http://www.oak-creek-homes.com/

http://www.apexmh.com/

By the way, our “trailer” population prefers the phrases “pre-manufactured housing,” or more commonly, “mobile homes.” I think the Iraqi population uses the term “palace” for the same dwellings.

Enjoy living under Allah. Just remember his mortgage is overdue, and we’re about to foreclose.

Mohamomd is that your new code book? sence you cut the head off of your last code maker?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS There was an earthquake in your holly land guess your rock aint working Mohomm? Proof the Mulsums are week they cut childrens heads off? and shoot men in the Back? A stand up fight and your toast burnt toast? If I were you I would get me another Rock to worship cause yours has you all living in Sh-tholes with the sh-t!
And can you eat oil? We know you can't Fram with out your slaves you will starve !!! We know all slaves want to be Free!!!!

We do not Fear you we will kill you!!!

America will be FREE and All who Fight with her will be Free too!!!

Nomad,

You said:

“All I ask is ... what would you do if a foreign country occupied your land, constantly murdered your sons daughters neighbors ...

“Jihad is the right of every living being who is oppressed. I would attack my oppressor without hesitation to defend myself.”

What would I do if a foreign oppressor came to my country and murdered my fellow Americans? Just what we did do, and what you said that you would do. We attacked to defend ourselves.

We invaded their countries, killed those who attacked us, and tried to give the innocent civilians among them hope in the form of a better system of government.

Next question?

Bob Owens:

We have 2 million people in jail? Fine. That number is accurate. Muslim countries have 485,290+ in prisons.

Another distinction you forgot to mention is that the people in OUR jails are there for committing actual CRIMES, as opposed to the typical prison in the Arab world, where the majority are political prisoners.

Mohommod Why were all Mulsums Slient when saddam killed 300,000 Muslums ???

We can't hear you!!! We Know you are cowards and you and don't worry the Black Christians in this country have guns too and will kill your up- rising!!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and Her Fighting Forces and ALL who FIGHT with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Yes we will bomb our own citys if we have to save the Whole! We have done this before with the war between the states you understand the American people we will do what ever it takes and we don't care about hollywood any way!!!
Earthquke in Iran what do you think!!!
nomaod

People now are seeing that you are willing to cut the heads off their babys YOU will not have a rock that you can hide under and be safe.

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Mr. Owen,
D you think with using pre-emptive military force where and when america chooses only because of its weaponary systems, america has either increased security or ensured freedom? In my opinion, blood only brings blood. You see our Arab brothers are in war with zionists for many decades. I hope americans wake up and choose a better soloution for their problems.

Cathy
Stop whinning when your uncles are talking with eachothers will ya?

Mahmoud:

You see our Arab brothers are in war with zionists for many decades.

A war that your "Arab brothers" started, of course.

Funny how you left that out.

To lmc:

I do not think that the Arab Jihad against Israel is susceptible to being resolved. How can it, really? Israel is an Infidel sovereign state. It exists on land that Muslims believe once belonged to dar al-Islam. In Islamic belief, while the whole world belongs to Allah and therefore to his Believers, who are entitled to, indeed required to, subjugate all Unbelievers, it is particularly outrageous that territory that was once part of dar al-Islam, and sits smack in the middle of Arabdom, should be ruled by non-Muslims -- still worse by despised Yahudim, Jews. It makes no sense in Muslim eyes; it is contrary to everything that is right and just. If you can contemplate with equanimity the destruction of Israel, and what that would mean for the morale of the Western world (which still suffers, though in ways not entirely understood, from what happened to the Jews of Europe during World War II, not to mention the centuries before), that is one possibility.

But would it end the world-wide JIhad? Far from it. Any Muslim triumph like that would lead not to a dying-down of Jihadist influence, but would swell the certainty -- and many Muslims possess that certainty -- that they will, eventually, conquer the entire non-Muslim world.

I think quite the reverse. There is not the slighest evidence that Israel's already dangerous compromises, by giving up land to Egypt, have done anything to make its situation better. Far from it. Those Muslim Arabs who might wish to stay out of the fray, and not enter into violent conflict with Israel -- as King Hussein of Jordan wished to remain out of the Six Day War -- must have, as their excuse, the overwhelming military superiority of Israel. It must not only exist, but must be obvious to everyone. Then, and only then, can the excuse of darura, or necessity, be invokved for non-participation in the violent Jihad, qital.

If Israel is perceived to be weakened through further reduction in size (it is now about 1/1000th the size of the members of the Arab League), with the ratio of length-of-borders to land area already the highest in the world, and a mere 8 airfields, all within Katyusha range, it will be absolutely impossible to invoke the darura or necessity argument.

Furthermore, imagine a successful assault on Israel. Do you think that would simply sate the appetite? I think it would, on the contrary, whet the appetite for Jihad.

Western Europe countries are now led by elites which have done a number of awful things to their own peoples and own civilizations.They have permitted millions of Muslims to settle, and to breed, and overbreed, in their midst. The polities and peoples of Western Europe are now faced with lives that will be inceasingly expensive (the cost of monitoring those mosques, those madrasas, those banlieus, and protecting synagogues, churches, airports, metros, government offices, schools, etc.), unpleasant (having a hostile population living among you, one that is taught, and re-taught, its hostility by its sacred texts and the religious authorities), and dangerous (Madrid? Plots uncovered in Strasbourg? In Manchester? In London? In Turin? In Milan? In Hamburg? In Barcelona? Fill up the page, printer). Their elites, and the EU panjandrums, have done this to them. They cannot admit it to themselves. They could not face, or live with, the consquences. So they pretend that the problem is not Islam itself but the "integration" of Muslims into Western society. What nonsense. It is Islam, the belief-system of Islam as it has been for 1350 years, as it has shown what Believers make of it from Spain to the Philippines over those 1350 years.

Anyone who thinks that the Arab-Israeli conflict can be "resolved" short of Israel's disappearance is ignorant -- perhaps wilfully so -- of Islam. This includes quite a few Israelis, who cannot face the prospect of a permanent Jihad, and who have themselves ignored the many fine scholars of Islam -- Moshe Sharon, Raphael Israeli, others come to mind -- who point out the unpleasant truth.

One has only to note the central significance, in Muslim jurisprudence, of Muhammad's Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya. It does not matter whether or not Muhammad really existed (I suspect he did not). What matters are the lessons of his own life, for everything he did is taken as the model, the Way. By the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyaa, made in 628 A.D. with the Meccans, Muhammad bought time to strengthen his side. When, 18 months later, he felt sufficiently strong, he breached the agreement on a flimsy pretext (that it was flimsy, that his breach was deliberate, can be seen in the Muslim commentaries themselves, which laud the deceptive brilliance of Muhammmad, who is reported to have said that "war is deception" and certainly Muslims have taken that statement to heart). According to every authority on Muslim rules for dealing with Infidels, it is impossible to make a permanent peace treaty with Infidels. If such were possible, then the required goal of subjugating all lands to Islam could not be achieved. Arafat mentioned the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya, to Muslim audiences, on at least five separate occasions (he was caught on tape doing so, to an audience of Muslims in Johanneseburg). Now all of this can be found laid out, quite well, in Majid Khadduri's The Law of War and Peace in Islam (Johns Hopkins Press). The book, however, is out-of-print but libraries have it. See also, if you read French, Antoine Fattal's great study of the treatement of Christians and Jews under Islam, Le statut legal des non-musulmans en pays d'Islam -- you can order it from the Librairie Orientale in Beirut and also from Khuttab booksellers).

Everyone is squirming around, hoping that somehow we can do something -- throw Israel to the wolves, fall all over ourselves rebuilding the Middle East so that "poverty" (would that be the same "poverty" from which Mohammad Atta, Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, whose great-uncle was Azzam Pasha, and all the other jeunesse doree of the Islamic world that have given their lives meaning by engaging in violent jihad-- would it be that "poverty" that causes all our current problems?) no longer besets them.

The only way is a very different way. Educate non-Muslims. Prepare a strategy that is more various, more cunning, more complete than the mere use of military force. Do everything to limit Muslim migration to dar al-Harb. Do everything to make sure that any ethnic divisions (hatred of Turks for Arabs, of Persians for Arabs, of Kurds for Arabs, and the contempt and hatred of Arabs for all non-Arab Muslims, for according to the Arabs they are the "first of people" and "in whose language the Qur'an was given") is fully exploited. Understand that whatever it costs in dollars, a barrel of oil costs far more because that money goes to fund the Jihad, and that taxes, energy conservation, whatever it takes to diminish Arab and Muslim oil revenues must be done. The propaganda war has not even begun on the side of Infidels, for our government seems to be tying itself in knots not to say the obvious; the consquent confusion and demoralization of Infidels is dangerous. If it cannot bring itself forthrightly to discuss Islam, then at the very least let it come out against "only those Mulims who support the JIhad by any and all means." Nudge, nudge, wink, wink -- since, of course, that means all Believers, and any Muslim who does NOT believe in Jihad (and that non-belief will, I'm afraid, have to be clearly demonstrated, given the record of taqiyaa and kitman) is not really a full-fledged Muslim at all. And give great attention to, and support to the fullest, all ex-Muslims who are able to articulate their disenchantment; it is they who know best the secrets of Islam, its real teachings, its real attitudes toward non-Muslims, and its intellectual constraints on thought.

We (the west) have accepted the modern world and have accepted the change that comes with it. The old Soviet empire tried to hold back the changed, but couldn't, China is changing, India is changing, all of the world is changing and accepting the changes. How does the Middle East with such a small part of the world's population and a smaller part of the world's economy think that they may be able to stay stuck in the middle ages. I read recently that even with alllllll their oil wealth, the Middle East's economy is still no bigger than Spain's, and I might add, they are dangerously dependent on oil for their revenues.

Hugh said "Understand that whatever it costs in dollars, a barrel of oil costs far more because that money goes to fund the Jihad, and that taxes, energy conservation, whatever it takes to diminish Arab and Muslim oil revenues must be done."

The one solution to this problem is to buy oil from Canada, it is guaranteed Jihad free. Our oil sands have something like 300 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil.

Additional stories on Fawaz Damra at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unitedstatesaction/message/6670

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unitedstatesaction/message/6669

mohommod

What are you stupid? We see your terrorist ways and will not live that way!! You do Cut people heads off shoot people in the back!! And we remember farakan going to pledge to saddam we have not forgotten!! Dude you are hanging with the wrong people to know what the American people think!! You were not able to take our guns. Like you did in a few countrys, but even Italy now allows them to shoot an intruder! And if you don't understand this is HUGE they see what you are about!! We will take Action the L.A. roits never spred to the whole USA.
And Farakahn could not get the crowds now that 9/11 happend Blacks in this country are Americans too!!
Prince Bandar said that your war was lost because of hot heads jumping the GUN! Some thing he had been working on for 20yrs. [fox interview]

God Bless the USA and her fighting Forces and All who Fight with Her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Mahmoud,

Pre-emption? Where do you see pre-emption?

Hindus did not bomb our embassies. Sikhs did not attempt to sink the USS Cole. Buddhists did not attack us on 9/11.

It was Muslims. And you cheered them.

Blood does bring more blood. The sooner Muslims realize that militant expansionist Islam will no longer be tolerated, the sooner you can have what passes for “peace” in Islamic countries. Our eyes are open now. Every time you attack us, you make us stronger. We will continue to counterattack every time you come after us, and we will counterattack with overwhelming force.

We did not bring this war. You brought it upon yourself, with a faith of lies, half-truths, and deception.

The simple fact that four days later you still cannot admit to being wrong about Muslims “finding” America is just more proof of the inherent dishonesty and moral cowardice that is Islam.

We will not tire.

We will not falter.

We will not fail.

I just listened to an hour long discussion on "Radio Free Silver", from Silver City New Mexico. They talked about the war in Iraq and why we need to get George Bush out of the white house.
Not once did they use the word Jihad, Muslim or Islam!
These Liberal Dems were totally clueless about what was going on and they were informing their community with talk of Iraqis "fighting for their country" against American aggression", etc. They were using the same talking points as Mo and Re.
It wasn't a call in show so they couldn't be debated.
Once again, "your either with us or your with the enemy".

The simple fact that four days later you still cannot admit to being wrong about Muslims “finding” America is just more proof of the inherent dishonesty and moral cowardice that is Islam. By Mr. Owens.

Wasn't that Our Brother Reza who claimed that. I was complaining about Native American Genocides. I hate american collectible punishment!

Brother Reza! Answer the Infidels!

Westword
The libs want to have their heads in the sand and hope the storm pass well the French did the same and the Storm still came!!!

Remember not all dem's are lib's and will do what is Good for this Country to keep it strong all you can do is try to talk to them! Line up with other American we have a large voice talk to people when you are in lines ask did you hear most people will respond in kind! Remember to respect people use your whit. and charm to let people know Imform is well armed!!!

With these Babys that they cut their heads point out they are not alowed to convert or they will be killed. Tell them about honnor killing, and when they say these guys were hispanic remind them of Jose pidia.

Remember a gun in hand is better than two Cops on the phone.

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Let us take our cue from Hugh,
to read, study, learn about the cult
of submission,
for we, the Free, have a mission now,
to educate others and shine a light
on the dark words of those
who obfuscate the truth.

To Reza and Mamoud,
who live in fear of hell
and will not speak to me,
I tell you,
You muslim men will not win
the war for the soul of the Free

The poetess says to you,
"I am woman and lack nothing."

mahmoud said "Brother Reza! Answer the Infidels!"

do you guys really talk like that??

Collectible punishment? *blink* Maybe little plastic torture instruments in our Happy Meals?

And Native American genocides. Who were these NAs and why were they committing genocide? Against whom?

(apologies to the thinking component of this thread).

It is curious that Mahmoud would invoke the Native Americans. Curious because Islam itself is entirely a belief-system that justifies conquest of lands, and subjugation of their peoples. If Islam had restricted itself to the Arabs, who are "the first among peoples" according to Muslim texts, and who definitely see themselves as primus inter pares, even coining the word "malawi" to describe non-Arab Muslims, one would not have much evidence with which to confront Mahmoud and his fellows. But Islam is the original conquering faith. Before Islam, conquerors were content to win territory, but to leave intact the beliefs of those they conquered. Alexander the Great did not attempt to impose his mythologies on the Jews, or the Zoroastrians of Persia, for example. Nor did he subject them to anything akin to dhimmitude. But Islam conquered the Christians and Jews of Mesopotamia and Syria and Judea and Egypt and North Africa (once the thriving center of Christendom, where such Fathers of the Church as Tertullian and Augustine of Hippo lived). Were I a Muslim, I would stick to my dreamy belief that Islam has always existed, and that everyone is born a Muslim but somehow has his faith distorted or perverted. Once you start talking about Native Americans, you invite a certain inquiry into Islam itself, the most successful imperialism -- Arab imperialism -- in history, which manages to convince many of those conquered that they should ignore or jettison their entire non-Islamic past, and rush to embrace the belief-system of their conquerors. Islam allowed, through dhimmitude, some to remain Christians and Jews (and later, Hindus were eventually found to be too numerous to eliminate altogether -- but not until 60-70 million, in K. S. Lal's estimate, were killed--so were subjected to a similar regime). The reason was motivated partly as a way of keeping around a source of state income: the jizyah, after all, was what largely financed the Islamic state. And, too, the humiliation and degradation of the Christians and Jews served only to remind, and confirm, for Believers the greatness and rightness of Islam (just as some Christians believed that the wretchedness of Europe's Jews was merely confirmation of their deserved status as "Christ-killers" -- not to mention their usefulness, as people whom nobles and monarchs could tap for resources, whenever funds needed replenishing).

And since Mahmoud is talking about Native Americans, let me offer him a little quiz. In Israel, or Judea and Samaria (renamed the "West Bank" only in 1948) who are the "Native Americans" and who the imperialist conquerors? If you check your Qur'an, you will see that the Promised Land was indeed promised to the Jews. And there is a certain record of the development, over many centuries, of their civilisation in that area. The return of modern Zionists, who sought only permission to buy land (and to be entrusted with public, i.e. state, and waste land), seem to be to be like a modern Indian tribe, wishing only to return to its historic home.

And what would one think if the United States, with all of its territory, made incessant war on a tiny Indian tribe merely because it had attempted, after wandering the world and suffering as the most persecuted tribe in human history, to return to, say, the woods of the upper MIddle East, or the southwest, and sought over many decades to buy land, to reclaim the area that had fallen into ruin and desolation, and yet, at every step, the entire United States was determined to make war on that tiny Indian tribe. I know whose side I would be on.

Mahmoud, of course, does not care about which people are tiny and which are vast. Lands belong to Allah. Jews are non-Believers. They are entitled, like Christians and other non-Muslims, to nothing. And even if they rescued Bosnian Muslims, even if they perform endless acts of good will toward those Muslims who will accept it, such as aid to Turkey during its earthquake, the Israelis find that for the most adamant Muslims, it means nothing. It is precisely the same with the Americans in Iraq. No matter what a deed was performed in eliminating Saddam Hussein's regime, and no matter how much aid we (crazily) pour into Iraq, the outstanding feature of the Iraqi reaction is one of utter ingratitude -- a reaction which the American soldiers have taken note of, and on their return, they will form a core of people unwilling to accept the nonsense of Muslim apologists. That, at least, is one good result of the unnecessary "Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations" Project. Many captains, majors, and colonels are learning about Islam. I have reason to believe that many of them are now turning to sites such as www.jihadwatch.org, www.dhimmitude.org, www.secularislam.org, to find out just what Islam is all about -- having experienced the full volume of its welcome for Infidels, they are not going to be as prone to being fooled as have some in Washington without direct experience of Muslim peoples, their hysteria, their prevarications, their deceptionhs, their passivity ("Wake me when it's over" is about the best one can expect from Iraqis today -- hoping America will transform their country, and make it a turnkey operation).

The Muslims made a mistake on 9/11 and in the period since. They ought not to have bombed, but just quietly kept migrating, flowing into the Western world, building mosques, building madrasas. But now, one suspects, it is too late. Too many cats out of too many bags. Even the faulty analyses of Bernard Lewis, or of Fouad Ajami (who never touches Islam, brave and forthright as he otherwise may be -- he always ascribes the various problems to pan-Arabism or some such; even the most secular Arab cannot publicly bring himself to tell home truths about the belief-system of Islam -- extraordinary inhibitions and fears abound).

Gary, you must remember that in Muslim history books, all Native Americans lived in harmony with Allah, dancing among the buffalo as they prayed to Mecca five times a day. Then us European white devils came over and wiped them out, right down to the last man. There are no remaining Native Americans.

Those of you who claim tribal ancestry are clearly delusional. Please put down all sharp objects and back away…

As for American Collectible Punishment™, Mahmoud is talking about my exciting new line of action figures, coming to market later this summer at a store near you!!!

He took offense to the Mighty Mullah™ character, which was also being marketed as a certain kind of adult novelty toy. He also didn't care for the Awesome Allah™ microwave bacon rack.

I can't imagine why.

After reading all the rantings...why waste any time or energy with Reza or the other one? They do not reason, therefore they do not think.

I come here to learn and to read new ideas and thoughts.

"He who will not reason is a BIGOT, he who cannot reason is a FOOL, and he who dares not is a FOOL." William Drummond

Bob Owens
Thanks for the good laugh!
It makes my day.

Mr. Hugh
There are some points in your post i would like to comment on.
I agree that no matter how much you pump money to Iraq, we the ordinary Iraqis will not accept your generocities because we have many many suspicions to rethink about it. The fact that american soldiers are circulating with no worth on our Mujahedeen Brothers around our Holy Cities shows the real intension of bush is to falsly try to eliminate Holy Islam expansion. Something you and many other anti-Islamists say and writes everyday. It means americans are mislead here to liberate iraqis and show all wmd stocks to the world. The main object is to fight Holy Islam. Otherwise it's no reason for americans to run after Brother Al-Sadr with no use, killing people who mainly fight their country against occupiers and beside causing more suffer for Iraqi children. If indeed Islam is your main target, make up your minds and don't try to decieve ordinary Iraqis by telling them you are here for helping us, because they see your agression against Islam. We will not believe before ending american agression on our Holy Places. So yes you are exactly right, untill americans don't stop to look like they are fighting against whole Islam then not one brother Arab will believe you. But so far i think you are looking for the total fight against whole Islam. And the answer is yes logically Iraqi uprising and american accupying force. Just like our ancestors did to british and force them to end their occupation.

Another point you mention about american soldiers and how they gonna return to america and be their self-appointed crusader against Holy Islam.
I think those soldiers you are talking about are exactly those guys which you see on Abu-Ghoraib pictures. Other wise ordinary american soldiers i know all want this thing to be over so they can go back to their family. Most of them don't believe anymore in pushing more inside our Holy cities which i can rest you assured it will bring more hatred from Our Muslim brothers and sisters in a useless circle of hatred against Islam.
Any independet poll will surprise you how many american soldiers wants to go home. There is no joy for them shooting on woman and children, destroying mosques and houses and bring death and destruction everywhere they go. they are sick of it just like we are. But because you are looking for annihilation of whole Islam (which will never comes) this all seem reasonable to you. But Apparently not to the ordinary american soldiers.

There is overwhelming evidence of Muslim exploration and colonization of the Western Hemisphere dating back at least to the ninth century. I have provided several references, as indeed have some of the unbelivers here themselves. Of course, they will not accept the conclusive evidence of the early Muslim presence in the New World. To do so would force them to confront the truth about high Muslim civilization. They even go so far as to destroy their own schoolbooks that contain mention of pre-Columbian Muslim interactions with Native Americans in the eastern US and Canada. And they actually boast about such book burnings.

It is a waste of time to continue placing evidence before those who are wilfully ignorant, but because I was requested to provide even more evidence, I will do so out of simple politness and courtesy. A rather long scolarly paper contains many references to the huge body of evidence. It can be accessed at http://tinyurl.com/yrhhl. Please note that the evidence presented there is truely irrefutable. I shall engage therefore in no further discussions of the matter with those who are so evidently of intellect inferior to the task of apprehending the truth.

Allahu akbar

The American soldiers I am in communication with have not, Mahmoud, been impressed with Iraqis. They are maddened by the complete ingratitude for all the work they are doing there -- just imagine if you, in the performance of some charitable deed, went to the house of a neighbor, and on the way there the neighbor's family tried to kill you. You entered the house, you cleaned it up, you cooked supper for the bed-ridden neighbor, you tended the garden -- and yet, for all that, the neighbor himself, rose up in his bed and tried to strangle you. When you left to go home, yet again those family members tried to kill you. American soldiers are not indifferent to the way the Iraqis behave. They have observed the constant invocation of the word "Infidel." They realize now that no matter what they do will earn them no gratitude precisely because they are infidels.

You want the American soldiers out. So do I. I want them out, so that Iraq can sink or swim on its own. And as it flounders in the swamp of its own making, the swamp of Islam, I would not mind one whit if Sunnis outside Iraq came in to support their beleaguered fellow Sunnis, and that Iranian Shi'a came in to support the Shia. And what if the Shi'a of Hasa province, so long mistreated by the Saudis (who are fiercer on Shi'a Islam than any Infidel) were to rise up, or destroy the oil wells? And what if Shi'a in Bahrain were to attempt to join a greater Shi'a confederation? All in the realm of musings, but nothing is impossible.

Yes, let us go home. Not a dollar more for infrastructure. We have now spent $191 billion on Iraq. Let us pretend that we got our money's worth by disrupting the weapons projects and weapons possessed, by Saddam Hussein. If the Mahmouds of Iraq persist in their fantasy-world, so be it. Leave them to stew in it. But remember that the mild-mannered Pakistani in Quetta is no problem; should he move to London or New York, he immediately becomes a problem.

Live, if you will, in the only way that the Arab Muslim world has discovered, other than the modern equivalent of the razzia, or the looting expedition, foreign aid from the Infidels, for that foreign aid will stop (I actually heard some Iraqi demand "war reparations" from the United States on NPR the other day; even Tom Ashbrook was taken aback by the preposterousness of the whole idea, after the sums spent to liberate that country of primitive ingrates, and a handful of Westernized, completely unrepresentative exiles, whom policymakers were fooled into thinking had anything to do with the real Iraq -- how could they, having lived outsid the country for many decades, and having acquired the thought-processes and some of the attitudes, of non-Muslim, Western man?): through the accident of geology, that happens to have placed oil and gas reserves under Iraqi soil. No spirit of enterprise or invention, no need for an industrious populuation. You can continue to sit all day in coffee-shops, with hubble-bubble pipes, playing assorted table games (trictrac, anyone? who's for cards?), occasionally going home to the vast family (who will pay for all those mouths, and what happens when migration to the West is cut off?). Just as long as that oil and that gas are worth something. But if the Western world should finally finally rouse itself, and do something about its use, and misuse, and overuse, of energy, then Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, and the rest of those countries unhinged by unmerited wealth, and seeking solace, ever greater solace, in the Total System of Islam, will sink back into their appropriate position in the universe. Which, I'm afraid, is a very small one, judging by the artistic and scientfic contributions to world civilisation that have come, in the last -- oh, thousand years? -- from that area.

Nice try, Reza. Hard sell or soft sell, it's still just another Islamic lie.

The Jew Levitt is a former FBI analyst

THE UNITED STATES OF JEWS AND THEIR CRUSADERS SLAVES

Hugh,

well spoken, as always.

Mahmoud:

The fact that american soldiers are circulating with no worth on our Mujahedeen Brothers around our Holy Cities shows the real intension of bush is to falsly try to eliminate Holy Islam expansion.

Actually, the fact that there are US troops on the ground in Iraq at all disproves your claim.

There aren't enough 5.56mm rounds in the world to "eliminate Holy Islam expansion." If we were truly interested in doing so, it would be an Air Force operation.

It's no reason for americans to run after Brother Al-Sadr with no use, killing people who mainly fight their country against occupiers and beside causing more suffer for Iraqi children.

Your "Brother Al-Sadr" has designs on creating a Shiite theocracy in Iraq, with himself as its leader, not "fighting against occupiers." Sorry, but we didn't go to all this trouble to create a clone of Iran.

As for his so-called "army" being some sort of popular uprising, doesn't it seem odd that most of them speak Farsi, rather than Arabic?

Any independet poll will surprise you how many american soldiers wants to go home.

I'm pretty sure that any "independent poll" taken of American troops during the Battle of the Bulge would have said the same thing. Of course they want to go home. Who in their right mine would want to be in a hellhole like Iraq if they didn't have to?

There is no joy for them shooting on woman and children, destroying mosques and houses and bring death and destruction everywhere they go. they are sick of it just like we are.

If you want them to stop "bringing death and destruction," you should tell your "brothers" to stop hiding behind women and children, and quit using mosques as forts.

You should really quit wasting bandwidth, you know. NOBODY believes your ridiculous claims that the terrorists who are murdering innocent people (Iraqis as well as foreigners) are "freedom fighters" who are "defending their country" from aggression. They (like you) are nothing more than thugs who are bent on killing anyone who disagrees with their plans to turn Iraq into yet another failed Islamic state.

Reza:
Your evidence is irrefutable and only the willful denial of truth by the infidels can explain their ignorance. How else can we explain the great mosques, libraries, roads, and thriving commercial centers the Europeans found in the Eastern US and Canada upon their arrival.

Interestingly, there were pretty advanced cultures in the Americas -- the Incans, Mayans, Aztecs -- but those cultures had largely died out by the time the Europeans arrived. Perhaps the Muslims actually did discover the Americas first, and then drove these advanced cultures back to the stone age!

Brother Reza
Thank you for your response to my request.
I also come to the same conclusion that infidels will never learn, no matter how many proof you present to them as Almighty Allah(swt) predicts in Holy Koran.

The only "proof" you provide is from other Muslims. One lie supports another.

I have yet heard either one of you quote a reliable, non-Islamic source.

Reza:

There is overwhelming evidence of Muslim exploration and colonization of the Western Hemisphere dating back at least to the ninth century. I have provided several references, as indeed have some of the unbelivers here themselves.

The fact that someone printed books that make fanciful claims hardly equates to "overwhelming evidence" of anything. Of course, I realize that you have difficulty grasping that concept, since you're programmed to believe that everything a bunch of goat herders wrote down 1400 years ago in a book that you probably can't even read is true, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Of course, they will not accept the conclusive evidence of the early Muslim presence in the New World. To do so would force them to confront the truth about high Muslim civilization.

In order to "confront the truth about high Muslim civilization," all we need to do is pick up a newspaper or turn on a TV set.

In the entire Muslim world, there isn't ONE SINGLE NATION that can even be remotely considered successful.

The only Muslims in the world who aren't predominately living in abject poverty are those who live in the West among the infidels.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why that is?

Oh, wait...I forgot. The 1.2 billion followers of the "almighty Allah" are being oppressed by the 10 million or so Jews in the world.

I guess Allah's not so "almighty" after all...

Yes OPview, I believe that is the case. There was a thriving indigenous culture on this continent until Islam showed up and destroyed the entire civilization.

Islam is like a really big fat guy bloated on to much McDonalds sitting on you, it just crushes the life out you. But what the hell you make a really soft cushion.

Now that Reza mentions it. I think I remember in American history class the stories of roving bands of Jihadi Indians screaming Allah akbar while attacking the wagon train.

I'm not sure how I could forget that fact.

It has also come to my attention that Islam was responsible for the invention of the Slinky, Silly puddy, and the not so well known G.I. Jehadi, its sales were less then impresive due to the fact that it would blow itself up when an innocent child squeezed it to hard.

Reza of the forked tongue
the spirits of my ancestors
are agitated and whirling,
their anger spiralling,
fed by your dishonor for their ways,
you who believe in slavery,
who think of women as chaos and sin
but hide behind their skirts in battle.
The ancestors see no bravery here.
They think you are hollow men
to not be able
to look at my long shining hair,
or look me in the eyes.
The ancestors are angry at your lies.
The ancestors will come to you
in the night and turn your dream
to a nightmare.
Beware!

Mahmoud said: "Any independet poll will surprise you how many american soldiers wants to go home. There is no joy for them shooting on woman and children, destroying mosques and houses and bring death and destruction everywhere they go."

So you're saying that the U.S. troops are targetting women and children with the express intention to murder them. Mahmoud, you are a liar. I don't understand how you can possibly persuade anyone to your point of view when it's all transparent untruths. I keep forgetting that it's OK for Muslims to actually do the things that they accuse the rest of us of doing. What hypocrisy.

You're pretty funny, Reza. I went to your site and did not find "irrefutable" evidence, but rather a bunch of scraps, any one of which could have been taken out of a larger context, or could have been written by an untrustworthy source. Haven't you heard of "multiple attestation"? That's pretty much the standard method by which evidence is verified. Keep trying.

Mahmoud;
Your constant rants about America and the Native Americans are rather tiresome.
And extremely hypocritical.

Lets look at a few of Islams conquests after Muhammed died.
(Coquests = Going in to countries were they weren't invited, by force, and imposing their man made religion - also by force.)

Lets look at..say...just 180yrs-ish after Muhammed;

633 AD: Campaigns in Bahrain, Oman, Mahrah Yemen, and Hadramaut. Raids in Iraq. Battles of Kazima, Mazar, Walaja, Ulleis, Hirah, Anbar, Ein at tamr, Daumatul Jandal and Firaz.
634: Battles of Basra, Damascus and Ajnadin. Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph. Battles of Namaraq and Saqatia.
635: Battle of Bridge. Battle of Buwaib. Conquest of Damascus. Battle of Fahl.
636: Battle of Yermuk. Battle of Qadsiyia. Conquest of Madain.
637: Conquest of Syria. Battle of Jalula.
638: Conquest of Jazirah.
639: Conquest of Khuizistan. Advance into Egypt.
640: Capture of the post of Caesaria in Syria. Conquest of Shustar and Jande Sabur in Persia. Battle of Babylon in Egypt.
641: Battle of Nihawand. Conquest Of Alexandria in Egypt.
642: Battle of Rayy in Persia. Conquest of Egypt. Foundation of Fustat.
643: Conquest of Azarbaijan and Tabaristan (Russia).
644: Conquest of Fars, Kerman, Sistan, Mekran and Kharan.Martyrdom of Hadrat Umar. Hadrat Othman becomes the Caliph.
645: Campaigns in Fats.
646: Campaigns in Khurasan, Armeain and Asia Minor.
647: Campaigns in North Africa. Conquest of the island of Cypress.
648: Campaigns against the Byzantines.
651: Naval battle of the Masts against the Byzantines.
658: Battle of Nahrawan.
659: Conquest of Egypt by Mu'awiyah.
670: Advance in North Africa.. Conquest of Kabul.
672: Capture of the island of Rhodes. Campaigns in Khurasan.
677: Occupation of Sarnarkand and Tirmiz. Siege of Constantinople.
700:Campaigns against the Berbers in North Africa.
711:Conquest of Spain, Sind and Transoxiana.
712:The Muslims advance in Spain, Sind and Transoxiana.
713:Conquest of Multan.
716:Invasion of Constantinople.
725: The Muslims occupy Nimes in France.
732: The battle of Tours in France.
741: Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa.
742: The Muslim rule restored in Qiarowan.
749:Battles of lsfahan and Nihawand. Capture of Kufa by the Abbasids. As Saffah becomes the Abbasid Caliph at Kufa.
750: Battle of Zab. Fall of Damascus. End of the Umayyads.
751: Conquest of Wasit by the Abbasid.
772:Battle of Janbi in North Africa.Rustamid. state set up in Morocco.
792: Invasion of South France.

Regards,
kc

The Poetess,

You rock, keep it up!

(You do know Mohammed hated poets, and had at least two killed on his orders)

kc (England)

"716:Invasion of Constantinople.
725: The Muslims occupy Nimes in France.
732: The battle of Tours in France.
741: Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa.
742: The Muslim rule restored in Qiarowan. "

The battle of Tours in France, October 10th, 732 was my favorite.

Mr. KC
As i read your old posts, i suspect you are a judo-christian zionist, a true example of what Almighty Allah (swt) called non-believer, someone who will never ever admit and will always give more and more excuse no matter how much you'll be presented with proofs, I reject to fall in your evil trick and let you make me forget my mission to invoke my brothers and sisters in america to stop supporting agressive leaders who brings nothing but misery and destruction for them. Those who wants total destruction for Islam are not my objectives. As Allah truly says They are the evil whorshipers who use christiany as a religion to continue with spreading dark ashes on earth and they will never belive. I am talking with the ordinary americans who were misled by their leaders to go deeper and deeper in destruction whinning on Islam and looking for the wrong reasons in wring places.

Thank you for your understanding.

Catherine:

You said, "Remember, all Dems are not libs." How True! I am a life-long Democrat as my family has been for the past 100 years or so since they immigrated to this great country. I suppose I have some rather liberal positions on a few domestic issues; but, it didn't take me more than 9/11 to wake up and smell the coffee. Whatever our domestic positions may be, we must all unite to fight this enemy that seeks the destruction of our society. I

I am appalled at what SOME Democratic politicians have said. I voted for Gore in 2000; I don't even recognize him anymore. I'm sure he wasn't this goofy then or I wouldn't have voted for him. At the time he seemed to be a rather moderate Dem, at least that is how he portrayed himself. His wife, Tipper, was instrumental in getting the record industry to put warning labels on their CDs for vulgar language. I think losing the 2000 election must have put him over the edge or something--that's all I can figure.

Anyhow, there are A LOT of Dems who understand what is going on in the world. I just saw a Democratic congressman on Fox News the other morning and he stated that the goal of the Islamists is to replace the current secular governments in the Middle East with Sharia governments. He then went on to say that if that happens, terrorism in Europe and the US will increase geometrically. There are several other Democratic Congressmen and Senators I have heard on C-Span and they do understand the situation.

I think the problem is that the far left of the Democratic party gets all the publicity. Every time Ted Kennedy comes out with yet another outrageous statement, that's all we hear about. And the far left of the Democratic party, as far as I'm concerned, should not call themselves Democrats. They are really Socialists hiding out in the Democratic party. I think they do that because they know they won't get many votes if they run as Socialists. People who don't follow politics closely might vote for someone with a socialist platform who runs as a Democrat, but won't vote for the same person running as a socialist. True Democrats believe in the capitalistic system, although we believe that corporations need rules and some oversight (something that you can legitimately debate) and that government can play a constructive role in people's lives (another point which you can agree or disagree with). Socialists would like to see capitalism done away with. As a moderate Democrat, I'm getting tired of these far left loons giving my party a bad name.

I particularly abhor exploiting the situation in Iraq for political gain. I was one who questioned whether going into Iraq would really be in our best interests and I think it was appropriate to question that before we actually went into Iraq. But, after we did make that decision, I wanted with all my heart for us to be successful.

Mahmoud:

Those who wants total destruction for Islam are not my objectives. As Allah truly says They are the evil whorshipers who use christiany as a religion to continue with spreading dark ashes on earth and they will never belive.

Actually, "those who wants total destruction for Islam" are simply people who have studied and learned the truth about the Islamic death cult.

Don't worry...we'll do our best to make sure you don't spread your taqiyya any further.

And those "dark ashes" that will be spread around the world if you don't give up your futile attempt to subjugate us?

Those will be your children.

"..someone who will never ever admit and will always give more and more excuse no matter how much you'll be presented with proofs,"

Thats funny Mahmoud, is that you you're talking about?
Only you seem to have evaded responding to any of the facts on my post.

You also seem to have evaded answering 'Bob Owens' excellent first post.
Maybe you've forgot what he said.
Permit me to remind you of one of his questions/statements;

"A “poverty level” American family could therefore support 50.87 Arab families. Do you care to continue?

Well mahmoud, what's your response to that?

And please, spare me the 'anti American rants' I am after all English.

Regards,
kc

"I reject to fall in your evil trick and let you make me forget my mission to invoke my brothers and sisters in america to stop supporting agressive leaders who brings nothing but misery and destruction for them."

I thik this more accurately translates into English as:

"I cannot admit I'm lying a blue streak, but please make Rumsfeld quit bombing us further into the stone age."

By the way, Mahmoud, are you a Sunni Baathist, or an Iranian?

At least he's honest about it.....

Learn the truth about Islam - http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html

I believe Far left Democrats are driving the moderates to the right. Thats all I'm going to say on polical parties.

I believe the issue of terrorism is not the responsibility if any one party, it's the responsibility of every American citizen to defend this land and its people against any threat forign or domestic.

Thank God for Trident submarines. Someday jihad will be defined as 1 billion misguided ignorant souls buring in a nuclear flame.

Just came across this:
IRANIAN OFFICAL THREATENS U.S. SUICIDE, MISSILE ATTACKS ARE READY TO "strike at Anglo-Saxon Culture".

"There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them".

www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38709

I wonder if this is why the alerts have gone up?

MAHMOUD:

European expansion into North America pales in comparison to the atrocity of arab expansion into the indigenous lands of the Aramaic, Coptic, Greek, and Berberic speaking peoples (lets not forget the Jews of Palestine and Babylon as well).

You, like Reza and all muslims, are a hypocrite - the false assumption of an appearance of virtue.

As I suspected with Reza, you are a shia and not even a real muslim anyway. You can't speak for muslims, afterall you are an infidel.

Bob Owens and lobo91:

THANK YOU for the humor. You have NO IDEA how refreshing it is, especially considering the seriousness of the greater context.

Islam has failed the stress test imposed on it by modernity, and now it will implode.

The imams and mullahs have to enforce their worthless cult with the threat of violence because they know very well that if kids are given a choice, they'll go for Japanese video games, American movies, British music, and Italian design instead. How can the ravings of a 7th Century pedophile and murderer possibly compete? They can't. What we are experiencing are the death throes of Islam. It's ugly, but worth it.

Amen, Sister. We should all remember those who fought and died against tyranny...especially as we now fight this truly evil enemy of freedom - Islam.

Hugh --

I just must say that I now sit here in awe of your contribution to this discussion. Your knowledge of the subject of Islam and world affairs is nothing short of astounding. I hope everyone appreciates how such clarity of thought is a breath of fresh air on the Internet.

What amazes me the most, however, is your brave stand for TRUTH about the matter at hand. I tire of people dancing around the real issue of Islam and the danger it presents for anyone outside its realm of absolute control and fascist ideologies.

I could definitely use you as an ally in some debates at some point. Until such time, I look forward to learning more from your eloquent postings.

Thank you very much.

Happy Memorial Day weekend, everyone.

How is a Tazi like a Nazi?:

http://www.pcpages.com/ani/polgr/inani/lop/nazi/nazi.htm

After reading all posts on this board for the last two hours, I must say that I am impressed with the incredible scholarly debates that have been on-going since this morning.

When are we Christians, Jews and non-Islamists finally going to admit that there is no way to deal with Islam short of total genocide? When are we Americans finally going to admit that we are totally fed up with these barbaric Muslims (why isn't it "Moslems"?), deal with them as they would deal with us, as in eye for an eye, and show them what "overwhelming force" actually means? Do these small primitive minded barbaric people really think they can destroy us after a few of their "chosen" have attended the best U.S. schools and universities for just a few generations?

Since it is Memorial Day weekend, Mahmoud, reread your history 101, and consider what happened to Nazi Germany...then reread what happened to Imperial Japan. That was fifty years ago, my dear friend, and we were using vacuum tube technology to kill tens of thousands. Imagine what we could do to your country with our space age technology of today! With enough injectable estrogen, we could turn your entire male population into impotent she-males, and require you to take on your own country's female garb. Wise up before it's too late.

Jocko,

You provide your own answers. We don't need to commit genocide,. Fanaticism in Japan and Germany was rampant, but we were able to end their cultist beliefs by destroying their leadership and warfighting capability.

While we might have to treat the religion itself like we did the cult of the Thuggee, we don't need destroy the population to do so.

You would be suprised at how many Arabs are "gun-in-the-back" Muslims, and practice the religion only because they have to.

Give them an alternative, and they'll take it.