All,

More than one of you have asked over the past few days that certain posters to this site be banned, not because they use inappropriate language, but because they stick to their beliefs, no matter the evidence brought against these beliefs.

I would assume that emails calling for the banning of certain individuals from this forum are already in the moderator’s inbox.

I think that is wrong.

“Why Jihad Watch? Because the West is facing a concerted effort by radical Muslims, most of whom are ignored by the Western media, to destroy the West and bring it forcibly into the Islamic world.”

Our broadcast media fails us. Traditional print media is doing the same. This is one of the few spots that we can hear from the source exactly what we are up against. This is a forum to expose the truth. Let everyone post.

Let the truth expose itself.

Bob said "This is a forum to expose the truth. Let everyone post. "

I agree with you Bob. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Your grandchildren will McDonalds employees.

Yes, I do not agree with banning anyone. No matter how ridiculous or extreme the view. We will not get the full scope of radical thinking if we bad them from the site. All should be exposed, for we are all intelligent adults we can sift the BS from the truth.

God Bless!

Banning is extreme, but there is no reason to let the forum be spammed. Also there are times when people publish slander or libel, and I don't think jihadwatch should be obligated to give them bandwidth to do that

I generally agree with BO, but we've had some vicious Jew-haters that are so far beyond the pale that they deserves to be banned.

BTW, Robert has made the big time; DU has taken aim at our host:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=5913

Dhimmi-wannabes! LOL

Let them all post. We need to see what is truly behind the veil...a hateful, intolerant cult...this no "peaceful religion". Read Sura 9. Then tell me about peaceful.

I couldn't agree more.... read what Mr. Spencer said one more time:

"The resistance against global jihad is a struggle to defend of the equality of rights and dignity of all people — male, female, of all races, Muslim, non-Muslim,"...

Presumably that includes liberals too.

It seems to me that some people that write in with inflammatory b.s. may be just jerking our chains. Some "muslims" may not even be muslims at all. That's why it is important to answer every point they bring up, carefully. That's what I TRY to do.

And hey, I am sorry if I insulted anyone. But I may do in again tomorrow if provoked. Remember the Scottish motto: "Don't tread on me with impugnity."

Earl:

Thanks for posting that link. I haven't looked at the crap they post over at DU in quite awhile. It's really amazing that people that stupid are capable of using computers.

keithjoy:

Although you may in fact be the one and only true "liberal" who posts at JW (although I doubt it), the only "label" that counts here is "anti-jihadist" and "anti-Islamist". We are glad to number you among us.

The resistance against global jihad is a struggle to defend of the equality of rights and dignity of all people — male, female, of all races, Muslim, non-Muslim, etc. Thank you for your support and assistance.
Posted at May 28, 2004 03:15 PM

Any zionist plan for taking over the Holy Land of Arabia and killing peacefull Muslim brothers and sisters is a struggle against all muslim men women and children and in the grace of Almighty Allah the enemies of Islam shall be vanquished eternally.

Mahmoud - Jihad = 1,000,000,000 nuked muslims. Again, thank God for the Trident.

Mahmoud:

Any zionist plan for taking over the Holy Land of Arabia

I can't speak for these so-called "zionists" you're so afraid of, but I know that certainly isn't OUR plan.

...and killing peacefull Muslim brothers

Which "peaceful Muslim brothers" would those be? The ones who are setting off roadside bombs in Iraq? The ones sawing the heads off of innocent civilians? The ones blowing up people riding on city buses?

A proposal: for the next attack by the Muslims against the peaceful people of the world...for every non-Muslim killed, 1,000 muslims get blown to hell...we can do it, why don't we?

Kirk:

I've spent time in the Middle East.

Trust me when I say that "blowing them to hell" would be a fairly short trip...

Lobo 91:

My apologies for my simplifications...I believe what you say about the Middle East. That is why I wonder why we are risking some of our finest people in Iraq, when we could easily, just simply, erase the problem...starting with a big hot one over that black box in the desert...

Kirk

It is most interesting to see just what is considered "acceptable" for posting in these comments. Here, and in other threads, are unceasing hatred, threats, and calls for the death, torture, banishment, and imprisonment of human beings whose only crime is that they are Muslim. This is how the West is to be "defended" from the evil Islamic jihad - by adopting behavior that would sicken Gengis Khan and his Mongol hoards.

I understand why so many of you people act this way. You are deathly afraid. You fear the Islamic monster as that foul beast has been described to you by the Zionist masters of deception and their Crusader lackys.

There is no reason to fear Islam. If you cease warring against Almighty Allah (swt), stop blaspheming Him (swt) and his Prophets (pbut), and stop the oppression and abuse of innocent Muslims, you have nothing to fear.

Study Islam and learn the truth and light of Allah's (swt) divine plan. Embrace Islam and live in true peace and freedom according to the teachings of Islam. Work for the re-establishment of the Islamic Caliphate, its extension over the entire world, and the replacement of your corrupt man-made laws by Allah's (swt) divine and perfect Sharia.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim and will neither remember nor understand your current irrational fears. They will live in peace and freedom, worshiping and praising the Merciful and Compassionate Creator of universes. They will know joy in fulfilling their true purpose on Earth - the unceasing worship and praise of Allah (swt).

Allahu akbar

YOiu notice they say be careful about coming over here (in the thread at DU). Proof that learning about things is Not the liberal way. Learning to think things over for Yourself is not the liberal way.

Ready-made Dhimmis.

Reza~ you understand Nothing. Which is what your faith will come to if you continue to pursue Jihad against innocents world-wide.

Why should Christians be ashamed of the Crusades?
Christians were only defending their lands when the Arab Islamists entered Europe to kill and conquer. God is about mercy not destruction. God doesn't need man to kill for Him. God doesn't need man to force other men to believe in Him. God needs man to live in peace with each other. Unfortunately Islam does not fit any of these aspects.

I knew I could reel it out of you...the true face of the "peaceful" "tolerant" Islam.

Again, thank God that we have those deep, silent guardians patrolling the oceans of the world.

Kirk

Reza,
It so much attract my attention when I see your post because it as usual full of the same old story without any improvement. Is that all what Islam is about, I think yes.
I am sorry to tell you this news, but I will say it as I used to, you, your children, your grandchildren, and your great great grandchildren, including your generation and your extended family will be christians to the glory of God, because that is the only way they can get to heaven.
Reza, if in doubt, give me a valid contact add. and stop being afraid of me, I can assure you that before I talk to any of your children for just few weeks maximum, they will all see the goodness of the lord and will come to christ immediately. God(Yaweh, Jehovah) loves you reza, and he doesn't want you to perish, come to him today tomorrow may be too late, he is waiting to recieve you with open arms.....
JESUS IS LORD!

And while we're at it...
I realize the vast majority of those reading here are people who wish to learn. And you likely already picked this out, But:

No matter where a person claims to be from, our 'peace-loving' islamists speak to them as tho they were American.

No matter What race a person claims to be, our 'peace-loving' islamists react as tho they are white. Especially if you claim Native American blood. They refuse to even believe you exist. (or so they claim. Of course if you won't kowtow to islam, you're dead, so in the end it won't matter).

Those of you who have written that those two make more sense- explain, How? Especially if you are Not muslim yourselves.

You know, I really don't want to see anyone convert...I just want everyone to admit that these "books of God's word" were written by...men, and all men are flawed...but my big worry is that Islam is different.

Most Christians go to church once a week, toss a buck in the plate, then go on about their lives. But Muslims..it appears to me...from a very early age...pray five times EVERY DAY...and swear allegiance to their prophet and the Quran...a notably violent book...this is a more than religion,it is a CULT, which is why I am afraid it will come to a much escalated conflict.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim and will neither remember nor understand your current irrational fears.

If that happens, I hope that Mohammed remembered them in his will, because I surely won't!

Mahmoud, Reza,
Are these peacefull droves of Muslims you speak of, the same ilk that crash planes into buildings, labor in secret for months to build bombs that kill innocents, etc?
Actually, I think G. Khan would have approved more of *your* camp than ours. As I recall, he too was fond of killing everyone who defied his rule. "merciful and peaceful"(tm) rule, with "truth & light"(tm) I'm sure. He left no animal, woman, child or even building unrazed...sounds kinda like the sunny middle east, no?
As for those "zionist masters of deception" you're so fond of speaking of...lets speak about a 'wedding party' full of money, weapons, explosives, sat-phones and false passports. Lets talk about how Muslims can't seem to add their dead or injured without adding two decimal places for each finger..or is this some NEW |"merciful & compassionate" part of the sharia we've not heard about?
Sadly, of late I have changed in my views, mostly after lurking and listening on boards with people like you two, Mahmoud and Reza. I used to think with hope for the middle east and muslims...now I mostly think, that we'll ("we" being the civilized, non-pastoral, non-sharia types) simply have to adopt the old child-rearing standards. i.e; EVERY time, not just once or twice, but EVERY time someone muslim kills a civilian or non-combatant, we dial-a-nuke your butts. Just once, just one city or port. We have to make it simply not worth the pain to attack us. Then we have to do it consistantly, so that (like all two-year olds) you really, really learn better forever..."spare the rod, spoil the muslim?"

Reza - are you a man or a woman...sorry, as an ignorant infidel, I can't tell from the name.

Oh Reza,
you mo-bot,
"zionist masters"
"crusader lackeys"?
Where did you learn these words,
at your cult school?
The one where they
didn't teach history,
or logic but instead
turned out fools who love
to hate the Free,
the pagans, the Jews,
Christians pigs,
dogs, whatever the founder
of your cult and his evil twin
disliked. I'm sure the list is longer.
Is your jealousy and envy
stronger now because in these times
you are not seen as the best of all peoples?
Are your feelings hurt that your cult can'seem
to win respect with those you don't respect
and look down upon and deem hateful.

You are the one with fear,
the shrivelled spear, crippled
and wounded, afraid of woman.
So says the poetess of the Free

I know curiousity killed the cat but
I am curious to know what s.w.t. means ?
I see muslims always write Allah (swt)
for muslim god . Anyone with knowledge ?

My children and grandchildren will earn higher education degrees, help mankind, and contribute to society, and live comfortable lives, much as I have done. Your progeny will be illiterate idiots with low standards of living, practice honor killings, cut of the clitoris's of their daughters, stone their female adulterers and put sacks over their women, and otherwise be as despicable as you and your fellow Mohammedans are now. Nothing will change. As we have done to the NAZIs and the communists, we will consign your barbaric civilization to the dustbin of history, much as we always have. May your psychopathic prophet, Mohammed (piss be upon him), continue to roast in hell.

Sorry Worthless Turd? any thoughts about this website?
http://www.jihadunspun.com/home.php

SWT=support wahabbe terrorists

(swt) stands for the Arabic:
subhanhu wa ta'aala
which means something like their god is great and merciful

-yeah, right! (yawn)

aliyah, the retarded queen of cut and paste has arrived. I vote to ban her, as I've seen all her tired revisionism before, and it's just boring now. I also vote to ban any Muslims who mindlessly repeat the same thing over and over, without entering into a dialogue. By allowing these people to post, we merely give them another platform. We've pussied around with these people for too long now, allowing people like Abu Hamza to preach genocide in our own countries - do we need to see it here as well?

Enough coddling. Expel these islamofascists.

aliyah, the retarded queen of cut and paste has arrived. I vote to ban her, as I've seen all her tired revisionism before, and it's just boring now. I also vote to ban any Muslims who mindlessly repeat the same thing over and over, without entering into a dialogue. By allowing these people to post, we merely give them another platform. We've pussied around with these people for too long now, allowing people like Abu Hamza to preach genocide in our own countries - do we need to see it here as well?

Posted by Ban The Islamist Automata at May 28, 2004 09:35 PM

actually, i wouldnt really call it cut and paste, its more like copy and paste. and in case you didnt read the following articles, my response was another copy-and-paste. at least i put my own words in mine. and u can call me whatever immature, infantile insults you would like. but i dont see a response to what i wrote on that thread, for some reason... if it is retarted, then the answer must be extremely simple. so why isnt it there from you? and isnt this a 'free' country? so i guess i can say anything i want. want to block me? go ahead, but that will only show your weakness, and i will consider my job done. but if all i write is "boring, tired revisionism", then why dont you actually do anything about it?

Naresh:

I'm not sure this source is accurate, but here's a definition of (swt):

Subhanahu wa ta' ala, which means "Allah is pure of having partners and He is exhaulted from having a son"

http://www.irshad.org/glossary.php#SWT

"Any zionist plan for taking over the Holy Land of Arabia and killing peacefull Muslim brothers and sisters is a struggle against all muslim men women and children and in the grace of Almighty Allah the enemies of Islam shall be vanquished eternally."

Mahmoud, Islam does not have any more right to the Holy Land than do Jews or Christians—who, BTW, were there long BEFORE Islam ever came upon the scene and VIOLENTLY conquered the Holy Land.

Just as Islam VIOLENTLY conquered any land that it is in today including Arabia. Muhammad fought for over 20 years. He was NOT a man of peace!

" You fear the Islamic monster as that foul beast has been described to you by the Zionist masters of deception and their Crusader lackys."

Ah, no, Reza— We are not afraid. We are madder than HELL! Islam has proven itself to be violent, imperialistic and hegemonistic. No need for the Jews to explain a thing to anyone. Muslim do all the talking with terror that they visit upon innocents EVERY DAY of the week throughout the world.

You, your children, grand-children, etc. will be raisins in the Islamic, celestial bordello. ;-)

The rest of us will stay in our self-made paradise on earth.

Let them talk. Don't ban any of these people. The truth about Islam needs to be "revealed."

Lili

BTW, (swt) stands for the Arabic:
subhanhu wa ta'aala, meaning Glorified be He, the Most High.

all you delusional people- u believe in the last day/ hour, right? well see then, who is right and who is wrong.
ALLAHU AKBAR

NARESH AND BILL CARSON:
SUBHANAHU WA TA'AALA MEANS GLORIFIED BE HE, THE MOST HIGH. NOTHING ELSE. CHECK THE ARABIC ROOT WORDS FROM SOME RELIABLE SOURCE IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME

Muslim pride:
We will all meet our Maker after death. Do you believe in a Maker who wants people to kidnap airplanes and then fly them into buildings in order to glorify him? What kind of a Maker is that? Do you really believe in a God who wants people to do this?
You worship an idol god of war and terror in your own mind. You can keep your brand of religion. None for me thanks.

Mike H

Aliyah, I could be wrong, but why do I keep finding the same definition everywhere?

"Subhanahu wa ta'ala"

This is an expression that Muslims use whenever the name of Allah is pronounced or written. The meaning of this expression is: "Allah is pure of having partners and He is exalted from having a son."

Muslims believe that Allah is the only God, the Creator of the Universe. He does not have partners or children. Sometimes Muslims use other expressions when the name of Allah is written or pronounced. Some of which are: "'Azza Wa Jall": He is the Mighty and the Majestic; "Jalla Jalaluh": He is the exalted Majestic.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary/term.SUBHANA.html

If I can't sort it out, I think I'll just go with Kirk's suggestion...

aliyah, your post about the great contributions made by Islam was retarded (not 'retarted') for one simple reason: the last contribution seems to have been over 500 years ago. Unlike you, I'm more interested in the here and now, I don't live in the past. As for your use of inverted commas around the word 'free', I can't really comment, since I don't know where you are. (And I don't want to know, either.) What I do know is that, in my country, a Western democracy, Muslims have the same rights as everyone else, and that in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, other religions are banned. I also know that your so-called 'holy book' instructs you to wage war on people like me, so can you really expect anything other than hatred in return? So I think the word 'free' probably has different connotations for each of us. For me, it means being able to drink alcohol, listen to music, go out with girls, and all the usual things that people here enjoy. But for you, it appears to mean the freedom to wage war against 'infidels'. Well, if that's what you want, you got it.

Naresh
You ask a legitimate question about swt. You would think that the person who wrote it would answer you instead of a smart ass like me. You would think that someone who wanted to have an honest discussion on their beliefs would tell you. But they think either you are an ignorant infidel and do not need to know or they have no desire to discuss their beliefs with you. I think that is the case because if you notice they write in declarative sentences. They "tell" you how it is and how it will be. Not open to discussion. So if you really want to know anything about Islam, don't ask a muslim. You did get answers from infidels who' in time 'you will see know a great deal about this cult.

"Deaf, Dumb And Blind;
They will not return to the path"
(Holy Koran 2:18)

Mahmoud,
We will never return to the wrong way(Islam) again because we've been deceived before but now we've known the light.
JESUS IS LORD, NO CONTROVERSY!!

Banning those posters who disagree with most of us here at the jihadwatch,would be a grave mistake.
If anyone of you has tried to talk to friends,relatives,neighbours,coworkers,etc about the mortal danger that our country is facing right now,meaning Islam,and people just gave you an intrigued look of disbelief,you all know what i mean.
And it is dificult to convince most people who are not aware of the muslim danger,for they are either ignorant or in denial....but if any of these people visit this site and reads some of Reza`s posts,they could immediately realize where the danger comes from,who the enemies are and what their goal is....
Posters such as Reza,Hoodjihad and Mahmoud are the ones that really make our point more obvious...,why ban them?!

"Deaf, Dumb And Blind;
They will not return to the path"
(Holy Koran 2:18)

"Damned, Dumb, and Dead;
They are buried beside the path."
(Third Infantry Division)

Wow, Mahmoud has mastered CTRL-V as well. Hardly surprising to see such expertise amongst Muslims though, as the computer is actually an Islamic invention, isn't it?

Dase,

Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the MOODY BIBLE INSTITUTE, Chicago, one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world, answering the question — "Is the Bible the Word of God?" (also the title of his book), under the heading: IT IS HUMAN, YET DIVINE. He says on page 17:

"Yes, the Bible is human, though some, out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men." (Emphasis added).

Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, "The Call of the Minaret":

"Not so the New Testament . . . There is condensation and editing; there is choice, reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history." 5

If words have any meaning, do we need to add another word of comment to prove our case? No! But the professional propagandists, after letting the cat out of the bag, still have the face to try to make their readers believe that they have proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that the Bible is the "irrefragable 6 Word of God." Their semantic gymnastics — equivocating, and playing with words — is amazing!

Both these Doctors of Religion are telling us in the clearest language humanly possible that the Bible is the handiwork of man, all the while pretending that the are proving to the contrary. An old Arab saying goes: "IF SUCH ARE THE PRIESTS, GOD BLESS THE CONGREGATION."!

Ban The Islamist Automata -

You are correct, the computer was invented by Muslims, in what is now called the USA, which used to be a Muslim country until the Red Indians so rudely took over.

muslimpride said "all you delusional people- u believe in the last day/ hour, right? well see then, who is right and who is wrong.
ALLAHU AKBAR"

Your religion is one that advocates violence to achieve its ends and unless it changes and reinterprets its tenants, the rest of us will do to islam what the British did to the followers of the Thuggee cult of India (which had many muslim members, must have been an easy transition), but it would be done with great reluctance.

"Any zionist plan " ... yadda yadda yadda

When I hear this excrement shoveled at continuous high velocity, it makes me wonder somethings.

How long can this keep up before one or more of these boneheads decides to "martyr" themselves with something more serious than C4?

How hard have they had to work to inculcate and indoctrinate hundreds of millions of people in this "philosophy"?

Exactly what is the name of the mental disease and what is the etiology of the symptoms whereby a person or group of people persist in blaming all of their problems upon another unrelated/unconnected group? Witness the blaming of all the Saudi bombings upon "95% certainty of Zionists", and all the rest of the tripe we hear...

And, this is the clincher, what is the end game to fix this problem? It is fairly obvious to me that this problem is huge, much larger than the de-Nazification problem of europe in the late 40s. This is also a culture unlike western culture. The value system is different. The negotiation and tactics are different. It is a mistake to think that you are speaking their language.

I have previously thought that there could be endgames based upon negotiation, discussion, dialog, and understanding. The past 3 years have sadly convinced me otherwise. These strategies are simply not feasable, they have not worked, and to quote someone on this "Insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome."

Mahmoud,

I don't recall ever hearing anyone saying the Bible wasn't edited here and there. There are few testaments that didn't even make it into teh bible, thanks to early copy editors.

Muslims are the ones saying that their Holy books were farted from the ass of Allah, pure and unedited.

Tell ya what. Give me you street address. I'll drop in and we can discuss it over tea.

kafir,

Three weeks ago,before I learned of Jihad Watch, I too thought we were fighting against a few extremists within a minority of Islam. I thought reason was an option. After being here this short time, the Islamists themselves have proved that assumption completely wrong. Islam does not have cancerous elements; indeed, it is itself a cancer.

You know the only way for a body to survive cancer, don't you? There really are just two possible solutions. The cancer dies, or the body dies.

It really has become that simple.

Yeti

Also, don't forget that Mohammed was personally responsible for the invention of the first internal combustion engine. He also came up with a cure for cancer, but that was stolen and hidden away by perfidious Jews. And so it is really the demonic Jews who are responsible for the millions of cancer deaths each year.

Here is an interesting story from Albania, hmmm... what is the dominant religion there?

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/05276E4DAMC_news.shtml

Reza,

Some advice for you as an Iranian Muslim:

Convert from Islam back to your nation's original Zartushti religion.

You'll be much happier and much better off.

And you will not be perceived as a potential threat to the world, either.

I value this site the way it is.
Dialogue must help ( maybe? ).
pleased to have a forum
for my own stuff.
Very pleased to read others peoples
contributions,
some truly knowledgeble or
insightful.
Boosts the morale to find
others concerned
with arab expansionism and
the muslim religions' unfortunate
affect on a population.
And every discourse with an arab
or moslem i invest with some hope,
as in, wake up, wake up,
there is life after muhomed the profit,
there is life after his 'religion'.
As to his religion, it has singularly
failed its adherants and believers, and
indeed the world.

Mr. Owens
there are many mathematical aspects in Koran which can't be accident. Besides the mysteries of Koranic words. If you like please study mathematical relations in Koran.

Mahmoud

Yes, for instance, quantum mechanics and relativity theory are to be found in the Koran.

Abu Toldyouso

That is so. And Mohammed also invented the can opener, hundreds of years before the first can appeared.

Mahmound,

You said "the mysteries of koraniac words". Can you please clearly state what you mean by that.

Thanks

"If you like please study mathematical relations in Koran"
You mean like 1 suicide bomber = 72 virgins?
I especially love Mohammed's scientifically based research concluding that jews are the sons of pigs and apes. No wonder Islam can't move past the 7th century.

Why are we spending time debating with lunatics. No one would go to an asylum for the mentally ill and argue with the inmates. Why then are we spending time with the lunatic Mohammedans. They are beneath contempt, and certainly beneath consideration for rational debate. It is a war of civilizations; so bring it on, Ishmael. We have the wealth, intelligence and power to wipe out this disgusting stain on humanity. Let us apply the will to get it done. There can be no debate between the rationality of the West and the cult-induced insanity of Mohammedism.

Gabe,
we must continue to hear the lunatic
muslim stuff, to motivate us to move on
from the' if we're nice, they'll be nice'
period to a more realistic assessment of
the dangers to our civilization.

JJ
Some verses of Holy Koran start with abbreviated letters like "A.L.M" (pronounced Alif Laam Mim) or "Y.S" (Yaa Siin) which apear misterious in their contexts and are probably ciphered messages. No one but Allah knows their exact meanings and there are different theories about them, some of them lead to some interesting mathematical experiences. To get a simple idea you can look here:

http://forums.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=8857&

or:

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/MIQ/Ultimate.html

which is not so complete and lack some informations but you will get an idea i think.

more, you can search google for "mathematical miracles of Koran (Quran)" or something.
Or ask your local Imam.

I agree with Gabe, these people are the most cretinous specimens I've ever come across. Are there any Muslims out there who can explain what's going on with these lunatics? Come on, don't be shy!

Mahmoud;
I did that search and came up with this.

Thanks!

kc

KC,
If you are so sure, why don't you expose it here?
notice how you silently just link "this". Something is wrong with that page?

Mahmoud,
Thanks for the comment. I am very grateful. the koran is so holy to even be criticized which is why you guys try to kill anyone that speaks against it. The Koran is just, which is why there is nothing like freedom, except terrorism, even it is too holy to have what Mohamed its author does not understand!
Good! Infact I got so much attracted to your analysis that I feel like checking all the physics and advanced solid mechanics I’ve done before. However, after checking through I found no reference of any mathematical relation of the Koran proven by scientist!
I also guess that from your analogy, the Koran is so perfect, but there are lot of contradictions in it (read through once again if you don’t mind) that if care is not taken a story once started will never be finished!
If that’s is the word of god (allah) which you still believe, then allah must be a confused person who has little or no direction!
I am still reading through over and over again to see where Newton first law of motion, eistein law of relatively, law of gravity, law of evolution, etc has been in the Koran before the scientists Isaac Newton and co found it in out in their time. please help me out!
Now back to your assertion, well to the best of my knowledge I will use just one illustration to tell you how the bible is. Here is the illustration:
A manager was one day dictating a memo to his secretary, the secretary was typing it while the manager dictates. After the manager finished his dictation, the secretary passed the document forward to the required section.
Now, Mahmoud, let me ask you this simple question, “Who is the author of the memo?” …….
Abba! don’t think for long, it is the manager of course! That is how the issue of the bible is, God inspired his anointed people and it was written under his divine inspiration (if you want to know how inspiration works, then believe in the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved).
That is how the bible is, it was written by 40 authors and it contains 66books. It is not ambigious its sources (prophets) are known and they all agree on one context that the kingdom of heaven is at hand and that you (mahmoud and others like you) should repent.
I hope I’ve given a thorough lecture on that, if you need more just let me know!
JESUS IS LORD, NO CONTROVERSY!

Now, Mahmoud, let me ask you this simple question, “Who is the author of the memo?”
Ayatollah Mahmoud

Learn and Embrace Islam so we can all live in peace together.
see you infidels

Mahmoudu! or what do you call yourself.
Once defeated twice shy!

If you think you defeated me with your kurf lectures, then i put you in the line of non-believers and stop inviting you to save yourself. May Almighty Allah help you so you can come out of your swamp of Kufr

Mahmoud,

Thanks for the info. Lets see if I got this right but correct me if I am wrong.

They are mysterious in nature because nobody knows the origins of them. That is what I have taken from the site you pointed out.

As for the math, PLEASE do not go their with me. I am a physicist by education. (I.E. I have a doctorate in math)

I will not try and bash you, like so many do here, because at least you try and get your facts straight. I.E. Native American history though you left out a lot history. All I want to do is learn about points of view and at least you try and give yours here.

That said, I would like to ask you another question. What is the earliest Koran known and has the text of the Koran changed over time?

Ever wonder which islamic paradise jihadis want to model America after? Indonesia? Pakistan? Sudan? There are so many fabulous islamic countries its hard to choose just one...

yabba dabba akbar!

don't forget...
" For most Muslims, the idea that an infidel could reject Islam because of a sincere concern for knowing the truth is absolutely inconceivable. Hence, the infidel must be lying when he or she present facts and arguments against Islam, and the infidel must be an especially tricky liar when the facts and arguments cannot be answered by the Muslim."

On and on it goes - semiliterate verbal abuse, willful ignorance, lies, threats, and hatred directed towards Islam and Muslims. Many of you are quite obviously terrified and literally cowering in fear.

You bring these irrational terrors upon yourselves. Stop warring against Almighty Allah (swt). Stop oppressing Muslims. Acknowledge Allah's (swt) divine will and His (swt) promises to His (swt) believers.

The end of the long struggle is at hand. Soon the Islamic Caliphate will extend over the entire world and all corrupt and unjust man-made laws will be replaced by Allah's (swt) divine Sharia. Peace and freedom for all the people on Earth will come when all live in accord with the teachings of Islam. Rejoice, for soon all the peoples of the Earth will submit to the will of Almighty Allah (swt).

Allahu akbar

Mahmoud;

"KC,
If you are so sure, why don't you expose it here?
notice how you silently just link "this". Something is wrong with that page?"

What?

Mahmoud, quit with the 'cospiracy theories'
what on earth are you on about; "silently just link "this""

Its a quite normal link!
Posting that link does expose the nonsense about 'mathematical miracles' in the Qur'an.

If there was anything I didn't want you to see, I would have just 'copied & pasted' select articles.

Please Mahmoud, think next time you post.

regards,
kc.

KC~ I think he was alluding to other numerics in the link, such as the Biblical ones. Ignoring the fact that numerology is not looked on fondly by most Christians. He thinks you are hiding something sinister while we mostly find it interesting. And the references lead us to other things we can learn- something he refuses to do.

Yes, thanks Gary.
I just couldn't get my head around his logic.
If I'd wanted to hide some thing on that site, why did I post the whole thing?

Anyway..time to move on I guess!

Regards,
Kc

Mahmoud,
Thanks very much for the comment, I’ve noticed one thing, you are such a fishy fellow who never faces facts, who thinks he knows it all, who base judgment on just one reference/source. Why don’t you ask yourself why you are just like that? I guess you knew, that your points are no longer interesting, they are spent points. Please don’t forget to search the internet again and look for something interesting and more brain tasking before you post things online again.
For you to even say mathematics is based or founded in Koran, or even related to Koran shows that you do not even know much either about Koran or about mathematics or both. It means advanced calculus, advanced solid mechanics, quantum theory etc could be found in the Koran if we open our eyes I guess. However, I have never come across such before (you could help me out if you wish) and I don’t think I will, or else the latest edition of Koran is out!
I advise that you should be more intensive in your research because this site is not for copiers but for intellectuals.
And to you Reza, I will like to see the caliphate rule in his toilet first before he rules the world, because if he cannot wash himself very well in the toilet after using it, then how can he clean the world of its sins!
Everybody please don’t forget that in whatsoever you do, the time is short, and the messiah may come anytime, so be prepared!
JESUS IS LORD, NO CONTROVERSY!

"Your grandchildren will be Muslim and will neither remember nor understand your current irrational fears. They will live in peace and freedom, worshiping and praising the Merciful and Compassionate Creator of universes."

If this belief system of yours is so great, why don't your people live in peace and freedom right now?

Remember the burden of proof is on you.

whistling dixie:

"If this belief system of yours is so great, why don't your people live in peace and freedom right now?"

If they answer you at all, it will always be the same old line - it's because of the JEWS and Western oppression! According to them, those two factors are responsible for every evil currently at large worldwide. Yadda, yadda, yadda ...

from "Philistine," by Ramon Bennett

'The word, "arab" and "islam," are as synonymous as "snow" and "ice." Arabs were responsible for the introduction of islam, and islam is responsible for keeping the arab world in the dark ages. Arabs are cruel, and islam is a cruel religion. They suit each other. The adherents of islam are exhorted to kill for the sake of allah, and where the islamic holy law (sharia)is in effect, there can be no resisting of islam nor turning to another religion or faith. To do so invites severe punishment - by sword, hanging, stoning or crucifixion. Violent, savage behavior is traditionally found among primitive tribal people who hold fast to a belief in one or more demon spirits. Islam is a primitive, tribal religion.'
Forget it reza, we will never give up our G-d given freedoms for your satanic worship of death. Please continue with your circular reasoning, it will keep you neatly in your own little hell hole.

"Beyond those monuments to heroism is the Potomac River, and on the far shore the sloping hills of Arlington National Cemetery with its row on row of simple white markers bearing crosses
or Stars of David. They add up to only a tiny fraction of the price that has been paid for our freedom.... Their lives ended in places called Belleau Wood, The Argonne, Omaha Beach, Salerno and halfway around the world on Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Pork Chop Hill,the Chosin Reservoir, and in a hundred rice paddies and jungles of
a place called Vietnam. Under one such marker lies a young man -- Martin Treptow -- who left his job in a small-town barbershop in
1917 to go to France with the famed Rainbow Division. There, on the western front, he was killed trying to carry a message between
battalions under heavy artillery fire. We are told that on his body was found a diary. On the flyleaf under the heading, 'My Pledge,' he had written these words: 'America must win this war.
Therefore, I will work, I will save, I will sacrifice, I will endure, I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the issue
of the whole struggle depended on me alone'." --Ronald Reagan

To all you jihadist's out there:
WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER

Reza, you say:
"On and on it goes - semiliterate verbal abuse, willful ignorance, lies, threats, and hatred directed towards Islam and Muslims. Many of you are quite obviously terrified and literally cowering in fear."

Reza, if the above is true then the authors and signatures of the following fatwa must be very "terrified and literally cowering in fear."

~o~ On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims

~o~ The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

~o~ Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh

From:
Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans
Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm

Reza, is this how your "Peace and freedom for all the people on Earth will come when all live in accord with the teachings of Islam."?

"Bring 'em on!"

Bob owens, canuck, Wild Hare, and all the rest of you guys who voted to continue to welcome the Irrationals to this site--absolutely! They are their own worst enemies, and the best advertisement we have for educating the Rationals about what we face!

I do think that we perhaps waste too much time in responding to them, however. Maybe an occasional tweek or two just to keep them coming back and continuing to shoot themselves in the foot, but not so much response as to take up a lot of space. Except as expositors of Islam, they just aren't worth it.

"If they answer you at all, it will always be the same old line - it's because of the JEWS and Western oppression! According to them, those two factors are responsible for every evil currently at large worldwide. Yadda, yadda, yadda ... "

The point being that this culture (Islamist/Arab) is unable collectively to take responsibility for the problems that they themselves cause, create, encourage. Until they learn introspection, take responsibility, and decide to become good and peaceful neighbors in the world, they will remain a collectively a backword group.

They cannot continue to blame their problems on groups that have no interest in causing/formeting problems, as this speaks volumes about their ability to rationally approach the world. The de-Wahabi-ization is going to be brutal. The first part of this involves firing all the Arabists in the US State Department. Denial is helping no one, and hurting many.

All we need for a global tragedy is for good people to stand down and remain silent, while raving lunatics incite the masses to go after the scape goat d'jour.

What concerned me many years ago during the Afghanistan war was that the US (mistakenly) gave weapons and training to these folks. This was a grave error that I and a number of others knew would come back to haunt us. Similarly, we (western countries) should not provide aid and assistance to countries whose government mouthpieces regularly assail us and our allies, blaming us for their self-inflicted misfortunes. Cut off all aid, immediately, to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and so forth.

They cannot come to terms with their responsibilities for their current predicaments. The Jews, the zionists have nothing whatsoever to do with their state of affairs. They (the Islamists/Arabs) created and brought it all upon themselves. Part and parcel for rulers who seek to distract their populations from their own brutal and totalitarian regimes by picking scape goats.

That pregnant mother of 4 ruthlessly gunned down by adherents to the "Religion of Peace" ... maybe, just maybe, this senseless murder (not heroic operation) will finally wake up governements and people around the world to what the danger really is. It is not a mother and her 4 daughters going to peacefully protest a goverment policy. The danger we civilized folk face are the rampant, psychotic, xenophobic folks who make offers of "join us or die". It is time we step up to the challenge, and solve this problem. It is only going to get worse by the day. It should be obvious to all concerned that Israel ceding land will not solve the problem. Remember the scape-goating.

I agree that we should not restrict the few "One Note Samba" posters. If they were all gone we would be preaching to the choir. I think they unwittingly aid us in our ability to see exactly what we are up against and in sharpening our reasoning arguments.

I do think that we perhaps waste too much time in responding to them, however. Maybe an occasional tweek or two just to keep them coming back and continuing to shoot themselves in the foot, but not so much response as to take up a lot of space. Except as expositors of Islam, they just aren't worth it.
Posted by: cubed at May 29, 2004 01:38 PM

thnx for your stupid agenda but we are not interested.

“aliyah, your post about the great contributions made by Islam was retarded (not 'retarted') for one simple reason: the last contribution seems to have been over 500 years ago. Unlike you, I'm more interested in the here and now, I don't live in the past. As for your use of inverted commas around the word 'free', I can't really comment, since I don't know where you are. (And I don't want to know, either.)”
ok, live in the present- but really, where would we be without all the inventions that were made? What do you mean, you live in the present? If it weren’t for the past, then would there be a present? By the way, I live in America. Banning me (which I have no objection to, by the way) would be denying me the freedom of speech, would it not?
“So I think the word 'free' probably has different connotations for each of us. For me, it means being able to drink alcohol, listen to music, go out with girls, and all the usual things that people here enjoy.” If that is your meaning of free, then you need help. Is that really all freedom is about? So if you have alcohol, music and girls, you are free? Wow. You must be pretty damn stupid to consider that freedom.
Westword, you said “You would think that someone who wanted to have an honest discussion on their beliefs would tell you.” Did I not tell him what it actually meant? And all of you people that think it has to do with Allah being free from children, check the Arabic etymology.
KAFIR, I REALLY LIKE YOUR NAME. YOU STRAIGHT OUT SAY THAT YOU ARE A DISBELIEVER. WOW- WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ON THIS SITE.
Bob owens, you said, “I don't recall ever hearing anyone saying the Bible wasn't edited here and there. There are few testaments that didn't even make it into the bible, thanks to early copy editors. muslims are the ones saying that their Holy books were farted from the ass of Allah, pure and unedited.” Well, there you go- you just said that your bible is not in its original form. Well now. At least we defend our religion- we don’t say that it was changed. The Quran was not changed ever, from when it was revealed till the end of time.
All you people making fun of the inventions of muslims- don’t hate, appreciate. You know where you would be without all the things Muslims invented. Half of you wouldn’t be alive, because Muslims invented preventions for many diseases.
KAMA: To all you kuffar out there:
WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER
PS- notice i ignored all the long posts, because they have the same exact stuff you post, all day long, thinking you will change the mind of a true believing muslim. you think that, keep thinking, because muslims here know what they are talking about, and will not be decieved by your infantile 'logic', dominated by emotion rather then rationality.

Aliar~ logic dominated by emotion? Do we sound like the college professors your Saudi masters employ in our colleges?

You will never surrender? Fine. Your loss, the world's gain.

aliyah:

"PS- notice i ignored all the long posts, because they have the same exact stuff you post, all day long, thinking you will change the mind of a true believing muslim. you think that, keep thinking, because muslims here know what they are talking about, and will not be decieved by your infantile 'logic', dominated by emotion rather then rationality.

Posted by: aliyah at May 29, 2004 04:32 PM"

We don't want to "change the mind" of any Muslim, period. We already know what you believe and how you think. We just want you to go away. This website is not designed to convince Muslims of anything; it's for those of us who know the truth about Islam - not YOUR version of it - to discuss our opinions amongst ourselves. If you're here, it's because you feel you must "defend" Islam against what is being said here, and to try to convert us to your way of thinking. There may be other websites where that would work, but not here. WE'RE NOT LISTENING. Go play with your own friends.

thanks to all those who answered -
westward, aliya, bill carson, mike and the rest.
No matter what it means,
I have heard that it is considered blasphemy in
Islamic rule
to not write pbuh or swt or something like that.
And blasphemy is punishable by death. I remember reading a story about one a Friday Times (pakistan's newspaper) journalist who was given death sentence for publishing an unedited letter by a foreigner which did not have swt or pbuh. No wonder the practice is followed so strictly.

hi aliyah, I see you didn't bother to deny that freedom for you means the freedom to wage war against non-believers. That would be somewhat difficult, when your 'religion' orders you to "Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth, until they are subdued." Well, we're fighting back now. Personally, I carry a copy of the Koran around with me when I'm out, so I can prove to people that Islam really is a terrorist ideology, not a religion.

I simnply reject to post on this thread anymore becuase i found it a decoy to distract my attention from current situations.

aliyah,

Congrats on defending a religion which says you are less smart than men, that says women make up the majority of hell. A religion which will kill you if you try to leave, and which you can never, ever question at all.

That is one attractive religion you have there.

yabba dabba akbar!

Naresh C, you said: "I have heard that it is considered blasphemy in Islamic rule to not write pbuh or swt or something like that."
no, it is not blasphemy, it is said out of respect for our God and our Prophet.
Basil: Congrats on defending a religion which says you are less smart than men, that says women make up the majority of hell. A religion which will kill you if you try to leave, and which you can never, ever question at all."
if thats what you picked up, congratulations to you. you must be pretty bright.

mahmoud,

You don't post becuase you know your lies will be destoyed by facts and logic.

Just like your "religion."

bob:
no, he posts because he has better things to do then sit around and argue with a bunch or unaccepting, thick-headed nonmuslims who remain in denial.