The religion of peace sure does kill a lot of civilians. What a charming bronze age death cult.

Another article says they were cutting the captives throats when interrupted:

The nine had their throats cut by the kidnappers when they tried to escape at night by the stairs," Hijazin told AFP watching the removal of bodies.

brave, brave jihadis.

Well the militants were somewhat pacified not to just start killing everybody, they usually don't ask any questions before killing, but that does not condone the ones they did kill and what they did. Really I think we ought to get out of there like they want us to and find another solution to oil, and at the same time not allow the muslims into our country and get rid of what we already have and give the muslims nothing as far as economic aid. But that don't fit into the elites people mind-frame to run the world. Don't anybody read the Bible anymore.

Here are my comments relayed last night to Walid Phares, Secretary General of the World Lebanese Cultural Union upon receipt pf the WLCU news release. You will see where my suspicions lie.

"I have read the reports on line and yes, I would agree that foreigners among them Lebanese, more specifically Maronite ex-pats were deliberately targeted, as they were during the heinous attacks in October of last year. As I recall, Walid, children of a very good friend were killed and you circulated the heart rending pictures of them during your report.

These attacks, as were the attacks last month on western oil technicians in Janbu, a German chef for Saudia Airlines, last week, and today's events are all of a piece.

The terroroists, and I suspect their accomplices in the Saudi Wahhabi hierarchy and the Saudi national guard and security service are fomenting panic among all the the ex-pat communities in Saudia Arabia for an economic reason. They want these foreign technicians who keep the oil flowing and support operations in the Saudi fields to take "french leave." That would cripple oil production and would cause a further spike in the oil spot markets at the opening of the commodity markets on Tuesday in the US of A.

I understand that the Lebanese ambasador to Saudia Arabia has protested, and that our State department is suggested in an advisory that all Americans leave the country for their personal safety.

If there's sufficient intelligence to finger a concerted effort by disaffected and religious xenophobes in the House of Saud and Wahhabi benefectors of local terror groups, then this should be brought to the attention of U.S. interest groups in the Congress and the Bush Administration along with the specific targeting of Westerners and Lebanese expats, specifically Maronites by your organization.

We may be getting close to the time when a war plan to seize the Saudi fields developed in 1973 by executive order and implemented by then SECDEF James Schlesinger may have to be "dusted off."

As any one experienced in what goes on in the empty quarter of Araby knows, these are not isolated events. They have the tacit if not active support of religiously extreme Saudi government elements.

My deepest rachmonis (compassion) for those foreigners and Lebanese nationals and Maronite killeds in this heinous terroroist action in Khubar."

Everyone:

I'm going to repeat my assertion that most of you are seriously neglecting Dhimmi Watch. There are several good articles today that bear commenting upon (sorry to end with a prepositon, but it sounded even more awkward the other way).

THE LAST GREAT HOLY WAR HAS STARTED, OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE. HOW MANY OF THE MUSLIMS DID THE TERRORISTS ASK DURING THE SEPT 11 01 BEFORE THEY WERE KILLED. ZERO, THATS RIGHT ZERO. BEACAUSE THEY DIDNT CARE ABOUT THERE OWN SO CALLED BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF ISLAM, THE TIME IS HERE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS, BE READY FOR YOUR CALLING TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR OUR RELIGION AND THE ONE TRUE GOD, JESUS CHRIST. AND TO YOU OF THE JEWISH FAITH, WE MIGHT NOT HAVE THE SAME BELIEVES BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE THE SAME GOAL. STOPPING THIS MADNESS AT ALL COST. I WOULD STAND NEXT TO YOU OF THE JEWISH FAITH AND DIE FIGHTING FOR YOU AS I HOPE YOU WOULD DO FOR US. JEREMIAH 20:12

I believe the Lebanese have it right....Abandon Saudi Arabia unless and until they apply a bit of rough justice to these radical groups...and do not return until sanity reigns and safety can be assured...

The Saudis are well aware of what being favorably linked to the West means, even if they have failed to communicate this to the "people".

The Saudis have some Real Tough choices to make. Will it be back to the Dark Ages under Sharia law or stay in the light (and financial rewards) of civilization??

A very clear example of how Muslim immigrants are fooling naive Westerners with taqiyya, lying for Islam:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/newspage.php3

http://watch.windsofchange.net/themes_92.htm

SvD:s co-worker Salam Karam has on several occassions visited the large mosque on Medborgarplatsen [a square in Stockholm] during the spring. The aim has been to compare the Imam's speeches in Arabic with the interpreters Swedish translations. His report shows that the violent attacks against USA and the West are never translated.

The concept of taqiyya, or kitman, is CRUCIAL for understanding how Muslims behave when they are a minority, like in the USA, Canada, Australia or Europe today:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178

DEATHTOTHEJIHAD,
It might be not premature to think so at this point already.
It might be also too late afterwards if we do not call the tune now.
Time doesn't seem to be playing into our hands, does it?

Patrick,
Good remarks on taqiyyah. I would also call such lying an Islam-justified hypocrisy.
Curiously enough, the Arabic for hypocrisy is 'munafaqah', and they claim to denounce it.
It just remains unclear for how long the Western authorities are going to tolerate these hatred lairs called mosques? I'd be surprised to meet a preacher of peace in one of those.

DEATHTOTHEJIHAD,

Amen, buddy. My feelings exactly. I have never been so motivated to give up the comforts of American life and fight against this plague. I will gladly give my life if necessary.

SWE

Prince Bandar was on the air today crying foul. The foul is that Western citizens are taking the Saudis to task for terrorism. Can't we see that they, the Saudis, are being attacked by these same terrorists?

Go to the sites mentioned in the posts above to read about taqiyya and kitman. Notice the tactic of victimization. Get used to these same tactics being used by Muslims that are here now. Be ready to analyze and categorize them to explain to your friends, neighbors, and colleagues that still have not taken the time to become educated.

"Don't be afraid. We won't kill Muslims even if you are an American," he quoted them as saying.

So Don't Struggle with your common sense. Please come and embrace Islam becuase nobody will hurt you again and the world will be a peacefull place when all Muslim brothers and sisters live together under devin rule of Almighty Allah (swt).

Mahmoud - At least you are honest about YOUR intentions. You insist that the whole world become Muslim. Guess, what, we don't want to be Muslim, nor do we want to live under Sharia nor put up with the deception of Islam.

Peace, for you, is not the absence of strife, but the absence of enemies. That means peace in Islam, not with Islam. We now understand your intentions and your lies, as well as your ketman tactics.

Mahmound,

My common sense tells me we need to stand up and resist this evil.

My Fellow Infidels,

We need to spread the word about the sinister truth of Islam. Spread the word and inform all you know. God Bless America and the West and all those around the world who recognize the enemy of radical Islam.

This incident is truely regretable, but it is necessary to realise that it occurred in response to intolerable provocation. Allah's (swt) Messenger (pbuh) stated that Muslims must "turn out the pagans from Arabia" (the Arabian Peninsula). The non-Muslims therefore have no right to be in Saudi Arabia in the first place. They must therefore bear the primary responsibility for incidents like this.

Muslims fight only in defense of Islam and to protect brother Muslims. Westerners must cease their provocations and oppression of Muslims if there is to be peace.

Allahu akbar

" Please come and embrace Islam becuase nobody will hurt you again and the world will be a peacefull place when all Muslim brothers and sisters live together under devin rule of Almighty Allah (swt). "

That sounds like a speach by Hitler! Beleive me, if we all lived under the rule of hitler or stalin everyone would live in peace, regardless of the conditions but we will still live in peace.

So basically, mahmoud, you are saying to us 'convert or die'. Correct me if i am wrong.

"The non-Muslims therefore have no right to be in Saudi Arabia in the first place."

"Muslims fight only in defense of Islam and to protect brother Muslims. Westerners must cease their provocations and oppression of Muslims if there is to be peace."

In other words, opression and provocation to you means living in arabia? If that is the case then there is enough provocation by you for us to nuke the hell out of you. Just look at the immigration of arabs to america! why do you call americans living in saudia arabia opression and provocation and in the same time muslims living in america is totally acceptable ? why the hypocricy?

Why do you come to our land, infiltrate into our society, destroy our culture, stir up trouble, preach your BS about islam and whine about our support for israel and our war on terrorism INSIDE OUR LAND? Then, when Americans live in arab countries and merely do their jobs without even practicing their religion since it is banned to do that in saudia arabia, they are set upon by muslim extremists who call this provocation? this is totally unacceptable and we HAVE to stand up against these double standwards. Its no good being the good guys in the world anymore, we should, from now on, STOP ALL IMMIGRATION into america and ban the practice of islam, just like practicing christianity is banned in saudia arabia.

Reza, you poor fool, are you so simple minded, or so brainwashed, that you cannot put the remarks of your so-called prophet in their historical context? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question.

"The gunmen were so polite. I cannot comprehend this politeness they showed me because I am a Muslim and this cruelty to others," said Abu Hashem,"

Another case of the Jihadists simply following Muhammeds' orders;

Sura 48:29
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allâh, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves."

Compare and contrast with this command from Jesus;

Matthew 5:43-47
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.... If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?"

And one of Allahs' names is "Most Merciful"??
Sorry, but am I missing something here?

"Its no good being the good guys in the world anymore, we should, from now on, STOP ALL IMMIGRATION into america and ban the practice of islam, just like practicing christianity is banned in saudia arabia" : Soldier of Christ

This really is the central problem isn't it... Our biggest obstacle to putting and end to all this Muslim non-sense is our own culture of being fair, and considerate, and accepting of others no matter what they say or do to us. Instead of growing up with Muslim ideologies like "exterminate the infidels", we've learned "turn the other cheek," "do unto others as you would have others do unto you," and "judge not, lest ye be judged."

Americans need to wake up to the fact that the the Muslim world will only use our civility against us.

Excellent post KC from England!

I know which one reflects God's TRUE message of peace.

I have always viewed myself as being an easygoing type of agonistic. However, in the year of so, I have become a hard core atheist. Thank you Reza for reminding me why I joined the US Army 15 years ago. Additionally, the unprovoked attack in Khobar, is just one more reason for me to reenlist in November.

As a footnote, it has always seemed rather apparent to me that the individuals who truly believe in Sharia law and Jihad, just need a little paxil for their anxiety and maybe a nice, little puppy to love. That should make them right as rain.

"In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good & candid minds in all ages have ever practised, &, both by precept & example, inculcated on mankind. And it is now generally agreed among Christians that this spirit of toleration, in the fullest extent consistent with the being of civil society, is the chief characteristical mark of the Church. Insomuch that Mr. Locke has asserted & proved, beyond the possibility of contradiction on any solid ground, that such toleration ought to be extended to all whose doctrines are not subversive of society." -Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists, Report of the Committee of Correspondence to the Boston Town Meeting, Nov. 20, 1772.

Skeik Ossama ben Laden may ALLAH protect him Said " As you kill our innocents we wil kill yours.. our bloods are not ship than yours "

Hay jihadist,

I will think of you when I raise my right hand, for the third time and take my oath protect my country.

Hilarious! If there were no 'pagans' in Arabia, you half-wits would all starve to death.

Wow, I need spell check.

Hey jihadist:

Your forgot to put (swt) after the word Allah! Blasphemer! That got someone jailed in Pakistan. Under Sharia law, you can now be punished.

They are killing muslims in daily bases in Iraq , Afghanistan, Palestion and everywhere and now they are craying for some pigs who takes part in the plundering of our oil .

we dont care about your pigs

ALL Earth kaffirs is not worth one muslim in ALLAH's and Muslim's eyes

See... paxil would do jihadist a world of good..

Jihadist:
آمین یارب العالمین

Oh dear, dear, dear Jihadist.

Not only are you in trouble (as CGW has stated) for not writing 'swt' after Allah, But it would also seem, according to the ahadeeth, that you are in a rather 'sticky predicament' due to your course language and lack of manners;

Hadith - At-Tabaraanee collected it, and Albani authenticated it in Silsilatul-AHaadeethis-Saheehah (#432).
"The Prophet (saaws) said: "The most beloved of Allah's servants to Allah are those with the best manners."

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, and Tirmidhi
"... 'Abd Allah ibn 'Amr said, "The Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, was never obscene or coarse. Rather, he used to tell us that the best among us were those with the best manners."

Looks like you need to go and perform some 'ablutions' as soon as possible Jihadist.

Off you go then.

No one is coming to "steal" your oil, jihadis. You wouldn't even have known how to find it or pump it out of the ground without Western infidel technology and geological knowledge. Even today, you are not even interested in learning how to find more oil or inventing better ways to pumpu it out -- you depend on the Western infidels to do it for you. You are much more interested in killing than in learning -- that's the problem with your whole society. And you hate people who would rather learn and progress chant violent slogans and kill.

Westerners: Let them drink their bloody oil. Let's support intensive research into alternative energy resources, buy Free World oil only, open up the ANWR to exploration, and conserve! We must DEMAND this from our politicians.

The Home Front grew Victory Gardens, conserved every possible resource, and pulled together to help us win WWII -- and we need to do the same today. On this Memorial Day weekend let us remember how our Greatest Generation defeated The Great Depression, Hitler and Tojo, and rebuilt Europe's war-torn economy from the ground up. Most were not college-educated or employed in professional jobs. But they pulled together and won with faith and determination and heart.

We can do the same.

Brother Jihadist:

These zionist kafirs are just trying to put hesitation to your heart as Almighty Allah (swt) says in our Holy Koran.
Many people here are neo-christian zionists who put some words from Holy Koran in front of you to put your Muslim heart in jeopardy. But as Almighty Allah (swt) showed us in Holy Koran, the final battle with kafirs bring them nothing than Holy Sword of Allah.

KC
Get a life, your zionist evil tricks to put some Holy Koran words in your posts are as old as a rotten apple.

If enough people become informed and upset, then something will be done. Slavery was abolished in this way. Prohibition was put in place in this way. Democracy was brought to Europe in this way. Universal suffrage was established by mass movements.

Another way something will happen is if Islam becomes bad for business. If the interests of the business and political elites become threatened by Islam, then something will be done. Money always talks. It pays for think tanks, political pundits and buys politicians. If big money begins to dislike Islam, believe me, we will hear it about in spades. I have hope for this latter angle as Islamists attack oil installations in Saudi Arabia. The economy of the whole world is very much threatened by attacks on Saudi oil. Don't be surprised if French troops are "invited" to assist the Saudis with their problems, just as they were when radicals took control of the Grand Mosque at Mecca in the 80s.

My Dear Fellow Infidels,

The posts by Mahmoud, Jihadist, Reza, etc. continue to expose the sinister truth about Islam. Don't go down to their level but rather use them as examples of the real threat we all face in the West and around the world. Inform and educate your family and friends to be wary of this evil so we may someday extinguish it from the face of the earth!

The time is here Christian brothers and sisters. Trust in the one true god JESUS CHRIST TO SAVE US AND PROTECT US FROM THIS DEVILISH SO CALLED RELIGION. THE FINAL HOLY WAR IS UPON US NOW. DONT LET YOURSELF SIT THERE AND DIE WITHOUT A FIGHT. DONT FEAR DEATH FOR DEATH WILL FIND YOU WHEN GOD WANTS YOU. BRING DEATH TO YOUR ENEMIES AND MAKE THERE FAMILIES FEAR YOU AND THE WORD OF THE ONE TRUE GOD. O LORD ALMIGHTY, YOU WHO EXAMINE THE RIGHTOUS AND PROBE THE HEART AND MIND, LET ME SEE YOUR VENGEANCE AND POWER UPON THEM, FOR TO YOU I HAVE COMMITTED MY CAUSE
JEREMIAH 20:12

"Don't be afraid. We won't kill Muslims even if you are an American," he quoted them as saying.

I feel really bad for these "jihadists" as they call themselves. I follow no religion but I get along with all my friends whom amongst them are Muslim, Catholic, Jewish and other religions. If these people can't just put down the guns and rederic and get along then they have been truly brainwashed by what they are taught in school as well as the radical clerics.

The question is, how can these brainwashed children/men get the real factual evidence on religion. Seems to me the way their ideology works is that if Allah doesn't intervene in a killing or bombing than it must mean that he approves of it. So shouldn't a failed bombing mean that it wasn't Allah's will and prove the resistance wrong?

It's interesting to see how the radical clerics and osama bin laden take text from the Koran out of context and apply it to the ongoings of modern day life. Then to see the following accept this out of context view just because of the source it is coming from rather than analyzing it themselves and making a decision.

I don't follow a religion. I was raised a Christian because of the reasons that most people are applied a religion, because thats what religion their parents were. I figured out that I don't need a religion to live my life. When I made the decision I lost nothing and gained everything. More free time on Sundays, a more practical view on life. As long as your a moral human, your okay with me.

I wonder if they held a gun to my face and asked me if I was Christian or Muslim and I said "I don't follow any religion". Would they have slit my throat like an animal? Who knows?

The taliban remind me of america during the slave days. Only the slaves are women and women rights. America finally realized they were wrong at one point and made a change that still rings after affects to this day. One day hopefully people will wake up on their own and realize religion is wrong. I say on their own because the way it looks now is that they are waiting for god or a prophet to come back and tell them what to do, which just isn't gonna happen, ever.

Q: What is the difference between Mahmoud, Reza, and Jihadist, and a jackhammer?

A: While Mahmoud, Reza, and Jihadist have more words available with which to speak, a jackhammer doesn't repeat itself as often.

BaDaBoom Kush!

Oh dear, Mahmoud,

Looks like you're falling short in following Muhammeds commands aswell;

Hadith - Bukhari's Book of Manners #313, Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, and Hakim
"... 'Abd Allah reported that the Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, said, "A believer is not a fault-finder and is not abusive, obscene, or course."

Hoe to hear from you after your 'ablutions'

Regards,
kc

hope.

Mahmoud:

Πηγαίνετε στην κόλαση;

To Mahmoud:

Is it ok with you to hurt people because they dont want to be muslims? Is this supported by the Quran?

Btw there is a Norwegian group that recently got permission to shout "There is no god" over Oslo.

Reza, Mahmoud, Jihadist, et al:

My God Jesus Christ teaches me to love my neighbor and forgive my enemy. That's good advice for someone who wants to live spiritually. But I believe this only applies to human neighbors and enemies. As the Nicholas Berg video illustrates, you are animals . . . . you are pigs. I should no more forgive you than I would forgive a rabid dog for attacking my child. To hell with common sense, to hell with logic, and certainly to hell with political correctness. I count myself among those ready to fight . . . . .

SWE

Invest in oil companies that get their oil from outside of Saudi Arabia. Invest in things that reduce your energy use. It will be things like this that will reduce muslim revenues to a trickle and reduce their ability to bother us.

“Your grandchildren will be eating ham sandwiches outside of their Catholic church in Mecca”

They are killing muslims in daily bases in Iraq , Afghanistan, Palestion and everywhere and now they are craying for some pigs who takes part in the plundering of our oil .

we dont care about your pigs

ALL Earth kaffirs is not worth one muslim in ALLAH's and Muslim's eyes

Posted by: jihadist at May 30, 2004 02:13 PM

Foolish little boy.....watch your language on here, cretin! What's your malfunction? English speaking, must be stateside, where are you, creamcake? You and your tude......

More threats and abuse, Mr. Watson?

Your grandchildren will be Canadian.

Allahu akbar

By the way, jihadist.....I believe the word you're looking for is (basis), not bases.....(crying), not craying.....It's like you're insisting on taking a machete to the English language, as your comments clearly demonstrate your lack of intellect.

And Mahmoud (Twinkie), what's this? آمین یارب العالمین.....is it some sort of machete brotherhood symbol? Maybe someone should send this to the authorities to have it translated. You clowns think Americans are interested in your trash? You should leave the U.S. if you're here, you're not welcome.

Actually, with your own words and actions, you've gone from being a guest, to being an intruder. You're trespassing. That's not a good thing for you, many tresspassers in the U.S. meet a horrible, mysterious end.....You should be very careful on your way out of here.

I hope MY grandchildren will be Canadian. I know they won't be muslim.

"Your grandchildren will be Kosher cooks."

jp

Not a position I hear much, but one with which I certainly agree. Fighting wars in order to spread religion has got to be one of mankinds dumbest endevors. Its only lasting benefit is population control.

More threats and abuse, Mr. Watson?

Your grandchildren will be Canadian.

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at May 30, 2004 03:47 PM

Promises Reza....abuse? If anyone knows about abuse, it'd be your kind....."kill, kill, kill" Mohammad (sboh) said we could, so let's kill....The cult of Islam will be wiped off the planet.

Your grandchildren will be rappers. Reza, it'd be good for you to choose your words more carefully. You aren't difficult to locate anymore. However, make sure you keep lying, as we expect nothing less from you.

Reza~ you are developing a sense of humor. Careful! Next you may begin thinking. In no time at all you may become a Westerner.

(I do find your attempts amusing tho)

SGT,

Wow..like dude you need a brain check too. Have a nice time in iraq murdering

Mike,

I was touched by your urge to restraint especially the
"Inform and educate your family and friends to be wary of this evil so we may someday extinguish it from the face of the earth!"
part. Aaa thanks mike you are a true altruist..how genuinely considerate of you.

Deathtojihad,

How sick are you. Can it be...a fanatic in our midst...bomb him..convert him to democracy now!

Jp,
Slavery still exists all over the world but its more abhorrent modern face is easily discernible in the scores of inner city poor all over our civilized 'western' democracies. Uneducated people bent on crime, drug-alcohol abuse, broken up families lack of conviction or belief.
(1 in 75 males in the US is incarcerated in the prison system) The rest of us are no strangers to aspirations (usually material ones). The decision on weather these actually constitute a form of slavery I leave to the individual to decide. My point is that without education there will always be slavery of one sort or the other and unfortunately I can't help but notice a sheer luck of it on this site.

panos,

patrida su synisto to "the kapetanios:Partisans and civil war in Greece, 1943-49" tou Dominique Eudes...auta ginonde tora sto iraq.

The manichaeism of Islam is beautifully displayed not only in the savage separation of Muslim and Infidel in Khobar, but also in the informative postings, with apposite quotations from Qur'an and hadith, adduced by various contributors. And that manichean division of the world between Muslim and non-Muslim, and the inability of the various Muslim posters to this site to refrain from telling the truth about their beliefs (they must make CAIR and other Muslim groups, not to mention Arab ambassadors in Washington, and Michael Sells, John Esposito, Michael Hudson, and a host of tireless migrant non-Muslims working in the vineyard of Muslim apologetics, most unhappy for not shutting up, or polishing their techniques of taqiyya before engaging in not "dialogue" of the interfaith racket sort, but "dialogue" of the kind that matters -- the kind that shows perfectly what Islamic beliefs are all about, and smiles, good manners, liquid looks, and so on can no longer obscure).

What is happening is extraordinary, akin to the way in which American colonists devoured Paine's anonymous Common Sense from January to July 1776, and moved from relative indifference to separation, to the Declaration we all know so well. At this website, and at others akin to it, and despite the official propaganda from on high about "extremists" and the general inoffensiveness of Islam, few are buying. Instead, in a great national effort of self-study, of refusing to accept the treacly nonsense that is offered, large numbers of people are beginning to note the observable behavior of Muslims around the world, beginning to unearth the stories not covered in the Western press or if covered, presented in a distorted light (all those "ethnic clashes" in Indonesia and Nigeria, for example, which are really attacks by Muslims against Christians, and an occasional Christian counter-attack after every conceivable Muslim provocation) and beginning, as well, to study Qur'an (not in the sanitized Sells version of "lyric suras" either) and hadith. What chills this must send down the spines of MESA members. What cheeck, what chutzpah, these people have, who begin to study Islam and will not accept our carefuly received version of it. What must Roy Mottahedeh think, when his disgraceful NY Times Op/Ed piece explaiing away "Jihad" is seen, and discussed, as the nonsense it is (Mottahedeh is not a PLO groupie like his colleague Roger Owens; he even as an unIslamic sense of humor, as in his quoting of Robert Benchley in one book -- but when it comes to Islam, he refuses to speak the truth; to expect him, or his fellows, to begin to speak the truth about the tenets of Islam, and not simply "Wahhabism," to ask that they take note of Bat Ye'or's scholarship and evidence, or of the scholarship of Armand Abel, K. S. Lal, Mary Boyce (on the Muslim-inflicted torment, in Iran, on Zoroastrians -- including the torture of dogs because they are sacred to Zoroastrians), G. H. Bousquet, Joseph Schacht, Majid Khadduri, Margoliouth, Arthur Jeffery, Snouck Hurgronje, and many others, from recent and not-so-recent decades, who have laid out the Muslim record of mistreatment of non-Muslims. The evidence is so strong, and so similar, from what was done to the Christians in Syria to what was done to the Zoroastrians in Persia, or to the Hindus thousands of miles away, and even the treatment of Byzantine churches is not much different from the destruction of tens of thousands of Hindu temples, or the Greco-Buddhist civilization, and statuary, of Afghanistan, that to deny it cannot be done any longer. Or if it is done, the students -- who themselves can get hold of the Index Islamicus, can themselves find out what ex-Muslims write at www.secularislam.org and www.faithfreedom.org, can consult the scholarship at www.dhimmitude.org, as so many of those posting here have been doing, joined by more and more -- no, it is too late for MESA.

And what is most amusing about this is that obnoxious bumpersticker QUESTION AUTHORITY, which has been used almost exclusively by those on the left, to mean of course: question those in our ruling elites, question those who support American foreign policy and the Pentagon, has been given a new, wonderful, legitimate meaning.

Everyone here, whatever their background, whether they knew nothing about Islam a year or a month ago, whether they are descended from those who were persecuted by Muslims in Syria or Lebanon, in Turkey or in Pakistan, or whose ancestors endured Muslim rule in India, or in Indonesia, or in the Sudan, or perhaps had no familial connection to Islam at all, has begun to question authority. Bernard Lewis no longer satisfies as he once did. And those who consider themselves professors of Middle Eastern studies -- such PLO promoters as Rashid Khalidi, or Joel Beinin -- are simply not listened to but mocked, as they deserve to be. They have taught nothing truthful about the main subject: Islam.Some of them, it is clear, know nothing about the matter. Others know perfectly, but are practitioners of deception. After all, those who promote the PLO and the "Palestinian people" do not want anyone looking too closely at the basis of Muslim fury against Israel, which is its existance as a non-Muslim sovereignty. They do not want close attention to Muslim rules of war and peacemaking, which make any treaty with any Infidel state not a peace treaty but merely a truce treaty, based on Muhammad's traty of al-Hudaibiyya with the Meccans in 628. If the assault on Israel does not depend -- and it does not -- on Israel's size, and if negotiations and treaties are essentially worthless (and they are), so that Israel must rely entirely on overwhelming deterrence, including the deterrrent effect of possessing the land it currently controls, with no further surrenders (in retrospect, giving up the Sinai was lunacy for Israel, and lunacy for the United States -- it was a perfect place for American bases, and if the Sinai is lost again, let us hope it never is surrendered to Egypt, of which it was never a part until 1922).

Question Authority takes on, at Jihadwatch and elsewhere, real meaning. We refuse to be fooled and conned. Too much is at stake. If universities persist in hiring, and promoting, and locking in with tenure, people who lie and lie about Islam, then let alumni punish them in the only currency they understand -- cash, check, or money order.

And Mahmoud (Twinkie), what's this? آمین یارب العالمین.....is it some sort of machete brotherhood symbol? Maybe someone should send this to the authorities to have it translated. You clowns think Americans are interested in your trash? You should leave the U.S. if you're here, you're not welcome.
Poster By Indifel Watson

It seems your ignorance is rampant! You are so incompetent to read 3 arabic words to realise a simple Islamic pray and Yet you act like you know all about our Holy Religion Islam. What a Shame for humanity you are. The sicks like you who put their ego and ill will before their common sense.
Once again, the luring evil force of Shaitan al-rajim in your ill mind was poven by the Power of Almighty Allah (swt).
Send it to your authorities yep! You will make yourself The Joke Of The Day in whole america, as you are already here.

You grandchildren will recite Holy Koran in Miami Beach.

EPG
“Mahmoud - At least you are honest about YOUR intentions. You insist that the whole world become Muslim. Guess, what, we don't want to be Muslim, nor do we want to live under Sharia nor put up with the deception of Islam.”
Fine, don’t be Muslim. That’s not my problem, but your and Gods alone. We Muslims have done our duty to spread Islam to the ignorant, despite the fact that there are thousands of misconceptions regarding Islam.
“Peace, for you, is not the absence of strife, but the absence of enemies.”
First of all, peace can only come about when we have no strife or ENEMIES WHO DO CAUSE HATRED BETWEEN OTHERS. I would like to hear your definition of peace.

Mike:
“My common sense tells me we need to stand up and resist this evil.”
Um…yes, good for you. I am sure it is a natural instinct to stand up and resist evil. However, if you are resisting Islam (which you may consider evil from wherever sources you received invalid information from), then I advise you to stop. Think before you act. Go and learn more about Islam before allowing yourself to spread erroneous information about it.

Soldier of christ
“So basically, mahmoud, you are saying to us 'convert or die'. Correct me if i am wrong.”
Why bother, Soldier of Christ? Even if the Muslims did correct you, I am certain that you wont allow yourself to admit to the correction.

Keith
“Reza, you poor fool, are you so simple minded, or so brainwashed, that you cannot put the remarks of your so-called prophet in their historical context? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question.”
It seems to me as if Reza isn’t the one who’s a fool…believe me, I can relate. OK, Keith, you may think of her as simple-minded, but in truth, she isn’t. At least she recognizes the truth when she sees it, and surrenders to the will of God, and strives to spread and correct the true word of Allah.

Kc (england)

Sura 48:29
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allâh, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves."

Ok, so you’re still at it.. Well, so am I, and I (insha allah) will be ready to answer and correct your comments concerning Islam. (o yes, hello, this is Dina again). From our previous discussion, I recall you telling me not to take statements out of their context, well, the same applies for you. Before you go tell others to do certain things, make sure you yourself do them, or that will be truly a sign of a hypocrite ( correct me if I’m mistaken). Anyway, here is the whole ayah:

48:29 “Muhammad is the apostle of Allah and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.”

The word that was presented in the ayah you mentioned was inappropriate. Non Muslims have been living in the Islamic State and they were guaranteed full protection of their lives, property, and honor. This command of fighting against people till they profess the oneness of Allah, and establish prayer and pay Zakat, pertains to the apostates.
Kc (england)

Sura 48:29
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allâh, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves."

Ok, so you’re still at it.. Well, so am I, and I (insha allah) will be ready to answer and correct your comments concerning Islam. (o yes, hello, this is Dina again). From our previous discussion, I recall you telling me not to take statements out of their context, well, the same applies for you. Before you go tell others to do certain things, make sure you yourself do them, or that will be truly a sign of a hypocrite ( correct me if I’m mistaken). Anyway, here is the whole ayah:

48:29 “Muhammad is the apostle of Allah and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.”

The word that was presented in the ayah you mentioned was inappropriate. Non Muslims have been living in the Islamic State and they were guaranteed full protection of their lives, property, and honor. This command of fighting against people till they profess the oneness of Allah, and establish prayer and pay Zakat, pertains to the apostates.

“And one of Allahs' names is "Most Merciful"??
Sorry, but am I missing something here?”
Yes, Allah is very Merciful, and yes, you are missing a lot. If you know how many sins Allah forgives every day, then you will not be saying this. If you know how much rewards we receive for a simple deed, then you will not be saying this. But, as every other religion, there comes to a point where one cannot ignore the fact that there a hypocrites, who know the truth, yet pretend they don’t. There are hypocrites, who say they follow Islam, but their behavior and attitude contradict to what Islam says.
I really dont understand you people. There are thousands of people out there, who have converted to Islam. why do you guys allow yourself to judge a religion based on lies, and misconceptions? Look at Yusuf Estes, who used to be a priest in Chrisitanity, who converted to Islam!http://www.islamfortoday.com/yusufestes.htm
Look at CatStevens, who used to be this popular popstar singer, who coverted to Islam!
http://catstevens.com/discography/people/00001.html
And if you are still not satisfied, go read one of Paul Findleys book, Silent No More, who was a member of the congress for 22 years. Maybe you'll learn a thing or to. Even though he may not be a Muslim, he at least does not allow concocted and false statements about islam obstruct his way from judging Islam the way it truly is.

Salams,
Dina

You know? Im sick of islam, im sick of all this BS. These people are coming into our country and trying to take over, this is an islamic invasion to take over america, except that there are no guns involved. You know how they do it? they come here and each one of them get 5, 10, 15 children, this way their population grows in an extroadinary way and outgrows ours by massive differences.

They say islam is the fastet growing religion. BS. Its only fast growing beacuse the average pop growth rate in countries like saudia arabia a staggering 4-5% while countries like australia are struggling to keep the population growth in the positive side, in fact, russia's population is in decline. Compare that with 5% increase in pakista, saudia arabia, etc and you'll find the reason why islam is the fastest growing religion. You know what bothers me the most? these 5,10,15 children often grow up without any education, may it be from their parents or from school. They life a bad childhood being neglected by their parents and end up as criminals and murderers.

I have decided to join the US army to fight this evil called islam

oops, sorry, one of my post came up twice. Please disregard that.

Salams,
Dina

SGT,

Wow..like dude you need a brain check too. Have a nice time in iraq murdering

Sorry arxos, I am not a dude and I don't murder.

arxos,
Fanatic yes I am and very proud of it, Yes i am a fan of my country,
NOUN: A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.
YOUR damn right im a fanatic for the USA and my religon.. All i see in your words is putting people down who see the truth of the matter here. and the truth is this country is under attack, the christian and jewish religon is under attack, Now if you have muslim extremists yelling JIHAD doesnt that mean holy war. WOW who did they call a holy war against. ME,MY FAMILY, MY COUNTRY AND MY RELIGION. EVERYTHING IM WILLING TO FIGHT AND DIE FOR.
JEREMIAH 20:12

The LORD is with me like a mighty warrior;
so my persecutors will stumble and not prevail.
They will fail and be thoroughly disgraced;
their dishonor will never be forgotten.
12 O LORD Almighty, you who examine the righteous
and probe the heart and mind,
let me see your vengeance upon them,
for to you I have committed my cause.

13 Sing to the LORD !
Give praise to the LORD !
He rescues the life of the needy
from the hands of the wicked.

Reza,
US provoke YOU? You guys really have been sniffing carpet dyes too long, yes?
We (the civilized world) really do need to use all our alternative fuels, Stop buying anything from any muslim dominated country, cut any country even remotely muslim from ANY aide program/s, shutter the door from anyone muslim from entering our country, then deport anyone found inside our country having any caldean DNA,so that you can all wallow in your "perfect & merciful" little world,elsewhere. We should meet any attack on any civiized world partner not muslim,by muslim terrorists with devastating attacks on muslim sites... Reduce them to rubble, then blast the rubble to sand...or glass. Suicide bomber in Israel, Najaf is GONE. Attack another compound, Raffallah is wiped from the face of the earth, etc. Not pillars of salt, but plains of glass. whatever it takes...till your own "brothers & sisters" curse the day your religion was created.
But then I have had more than a bellyful of this type of "Muslim"

Dina,

The more I learn about Islam, the more I am thankful I was raised Christian. I also know that with the exception of the Catholic/Protestant conflict in Ireland, all the major conflicts in the world today involve Muslims not getting along with their neighbors. One current event in Africa has gangs of Muslims murdering peaceful Christians just because they are Christians. They use Islam to justify their atrocities! What do you think about those telling videos on MEMRI.org? Those hateful Friday sermons in Mosques - places of worship? The brainwashed hatred of Jews coming out of a three year old girl? Of course how can I trust your answer with what I have heard about the Islamic practice of "taqqiya" from this site?

Dina;
"This command of fighting against people till they profess the oneness of Allah, and establish prayer and pay Zakat, pertains to the apostates.

Oh really?

Then please explain this verse;
The Qur'an (Noble version) 9:29;
"Fight against those who believe not in Allâh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Seems pretty clear to me.

Regards,

kc

Dina wrote:
"We Muslims have done our duty to spread Islam to the ignorant, despite the fact that there are thousands of misconceptions regarding Islam. "

Then why not accept ahmaddiyas in pakistan (who
want to be called as muslims) in the fold of Islam ?

peaceful shit Christians with B52 , Apatchi , closter Bombs, Nuckes , Moabs, orange agent...

You are the most mass killers in all humain history millions of civilians has been killed by your dirty Hands .

Apparently we Missed a few of you, jihadist. Rest assured if you keep pushing that won't last much longer.

To anyone who reads here: I was watching a show about volunteerism (Canadians) in Vietnam and other countries last night. In a clip from Vietnam I saw two women, dressed head to toe in long white dresses, faces completely covered save for the eyes. Clues, please? These outfits did not match anything I have seen before.

Wow that jihadist should switch to decaf.

I would point out the obvious, most killing done these days by any western countries is not done in the name of Jesus or Jehovah, unlike these lunatics from islam, who constantly kill in the name of mohamed and allah.

“Your grandchildren will work in a pork sausage plant”

JIHADIST
ITS AGENT ORANGE DAMN IT, AND THAT WAS USED TO KILL FORREST AREAS, AND YES CHRISTIANS ARE MOSTLY PEACEFUL PEOPLE UNTIL YOU PISS US OFF AS YOUR DUMB BUDDIES HAVE, AND THEN THE GLOVES ARE OFF, CHRISTIANS ARE NOT ONLY AMERICANS DUMB ASS, AMERICA, MY COUNTRY MADE ALL THOSE GREAT WEAPONS YOU SPEAK OF FOR THE PROTECTION AND DESTRUCTION OF YOUR BUDDIES, THE ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS.

Mike:
"One current event in Africa has gangs of Muslims murdering peaceful Christians just because they are Christians.
Yes, I agree, to what you said about Muslims fighting Muslims. It is disgusting to watch this happen, and that is why these nominal followers must start acting accordingly to the regulations of Islam. And, again, in Islam, it is prohibited to kill innocent people.
"They use Islam to justify their atrocities!"
which is wrong, and which no one stated is correct, and allowed in Islam. You can't just go and perform an action that Islam does not allow, and then go and use it to justify what they are doing?!Go, and read the Quran before you start making comments. You should realize that Islam is not the way it is being potrayed by these so-called Muslims. How hard is that for you to understand? You guys still insist on learning Islam from stereotypes. It's you guys who need the education. You guys need to go and learn how to research without allowing biased information hinder your way.
You seemed to have completely 'overlooked,' everything I have said about Yusuf Estes, and Cat Stevens, and even Paul Findley. Oh well, it is hard to accept truth when it hits you hard on the face, so I'll just accept your silence as a, 'damn-it, she got me,' defeat.

Salams,
Dina

Sister Dina,

The trick of taking statements out of the context of Holy Koran is a daily sorcery here on JihadWatch and is oftenly used by those who are doing all they can to impose Muslims rights to live under Holy Rule of Almighty Allah (swt) in our own Islamic countries.

As Almighty Allah (swt) says these Idol-Whorshipers will NEVER believe so as more as you discuss with them as more they come up with new excuses to waste your time. There are more real americans who want to learn about Islam from scratch, away from the propaganda of this kind of kafirs who will never ever believe and are decieving the people of their countries and making them affraid of peacefull Islam by the way of imposing their military powers us. Arguing with them is pointless and they exactly wants to waste your time here and distracting Muslims from giving their true peaceful who wants to listen to you. There are lots of americans who don't want war and they want to live in peace with Muslim brother and sisters.

Unfortunatly untill their governments are corrupted by the same ignorant minds as you see here taking false contexts out of Holy Koran, the only way they have to prove their rights to us is their military aggression.

"the only way they have to prove their rights"

Yes, Mahmoud, our rights, which you are attempting to infringe upon. When our rights are in question we do use "military aggression".

Its so sad you approve of the current massacre of innocent Christians in Nigeria Jihadist.

You want to talk history? How about what the Ottoman Moslem Turks did to the Christian minority in northern Iraq during WWI? Yep, brutally wiped them out...

To me Jihadist, you are the face of Islam and it is not pretty.

Kc(england):
9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Allah is telling the Muslims to fight back to those who DO NOT allow the Muslims to practice their religion, those people who refuse to believe Allah, and acknowledge the Day of Judgement. Allah (SWT), is telling us, that we are allowed to fight back against those who refuse to let us practice our religion. I am sure that if that were to happen to you, then you would fight back, regardless of whether it is allowed by Jesus or not.
Jizya means tax. In the past, when the Caliphs ruled their people ACCORDING to the Sharia, they allowed the Non-muslims to follow the religion they wanted, as long as they tolerated Islam, and payed a certain amount of tax. If they were the people of the Book, (jews, and christians), they were to pay a lesser amount of tax than those who were not the People of the Book. I hope that this explains the ayah to you. And, please, I would love to hear your response to my previous post on Yusuf Estes, Cat Stevens, and Paul Findley.

Salams,
Dina

If our government are corrupted why in hell's sake are muslims flooding to here?

If our government are corrupted why in hell's sake are muslims flooding to here?

Mahmoud,

"There are lots of americans who don't want war and they want to live in peace with Muslim brother and sisters."

Indeed you are right my dear Mahmoud, unfortunately it's the "Muslim brother and sisters" who don't want to live in peace with Americans or anyone else. Your posting reeks of contempt and hatred for "Idol-Worshippers" and "kaffirs", you sound like an SS man ranting about his superiority to inferior people. Fundamentalist Islam is the closest thing we have to Nazism in the 21st century.

"You want to talk history? How about what the Ottoman Moslem Turks did to the Christian minority in northern Iraq during WWI? Yep, brutally wiped them out..."

Ok, so what did they do to them. Maybe if you can 'enlighten' me with some of your information, I might be able to point out some things.
And, dont even go there, mike. If you want to hear what the Christians did to other people, especially the Muslims for no apparent reason, then I'm sure your bloods going to run cold.

Salams,
Dina

"Jizya means tax"

Incorrect.

Jizya comes from the root word 'jaza2' meaning punishment. So, in other words jizya is punishment NOT tax.

Brother Mahmoud,
It is a duty for every Muslim, to make Dawah to the ignorant. However, we should not 'burden' them with the beliefs and religious practices. We should, at first, winnow out the mistaken notions which had obviously been taken a firm root in their minds. And, that is what I am here for, and until I feel that it is necessary to give up, then I will do so. And until I feel that these people are arguing for the sake of arguing, then I will leave. Insha allah, they will realize the truth of Islam. And, to all of you, I am not here to convert you guys to Islam. That is up to you, however, I am here, as mentioned before, to clarify invalid points regarding Islam. Brother, insha allah, we, the Muslims, will begin to realize how wrongly we have been acting, and that our Iman, and our faith in our Lord is completely diminishing. If we feared our Lord, then none of these so-called Muslims would be beahving this way. Then none of the non-muslims would have found an excuse to deny the truth.

Soldier of Christ:
"If our government are corrupted why in hell's sake are muslims flooding to here?"
Actually, Muslims ar not flooding in here. They are flooding out of here. And for those that are coming in, you cant blame them. They still haven't got the bitter taste of reality,and they still think that America is truly a country of freedom. But they will once they have arrived.

Salams,
Dina

Dina:

Muslims ARE flooding to europe and america hoping for a better life and an escape from the opression they face from their own governments in the 'muslim' world. Beleive it or not, muslims are flocking like sheep to the US and Europe to live a better life.

Jizya comes from the root word 'jaza2' meaning punishment. So, in other words jizya is punishment NOT tax."
YOU are incorrect. Jizya means a tax imposed on non-Muslims who are under Muslim country. I would like to know from which source you have recieved your information from.

Salams,
Dina

PS-It seems as if no one is capable of responding to my previous post on Yusuf Estes, who as I repeat, was a former priest in christianity, to Paul Findley, who was a member of the congress for 22 years, who wrote, "Silent No More," to Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam, who was former a pop star.

Soldiers of Christ:
"Muslims ARE flooding to europe and america hoping for a better life and an escape from the opression they face from their own governments in the 'muslim' world."
Exactly, from the so-called Muslim world. Not one so called Muslim country complys with that of the Sharia. And America does give freedom, and rights to people of various cultures and ethnic backgrounds. However, it seems as if slowly, America is changing, (ie. passing laws that contradict the Constitution). Sooner, or later, America cannot be called "The Land of the Free."

Salams,
Dina

About Jizya, read here. And yes, it is a punishment:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=532

http://www.dhimmi.com/

Gary:
“To anyone who reads here: I was watching a show about volunteerism (Canadians) in Vietnam and other countries last night. In a clip from Vietnam I saw two women, dressed head to toe in long white dresses, faces completely covered save for the eyes. Clues, please? These outfits did not match anything I have seen before.”
So, what’re you trying to say?

Dina, Regarding the Assyrian Holocaust:

http://www.atour.com/holocaust/

Dina, how do the conversions of a few people "prove" that Islam is true or good? The Chistians here can point to many people who converted out of Islam to Christianity too, such as Mark Gabriel. a former scholar at Al-Azhar and the two Caner brothers. Neither situation "proves" anything.

We have heard these conversion stories again and again -- Muslims always pull them out when they can't argue the facts properly. They "prove" nothing. We're not impressed; that is why no one is responding to you. Your "proof" is illogical and childish.

Regarding Muslim immigration to the West -- lots of them are "asylum seekers" accepted from places where they were in danger of being persecuted such as Soviet- and Taliban-era Afghanistan and Saddam-era Iraq. Many, many Afghans came to my state in the late 70s, after the Soviets invaded, to escape the war.

Especially the socialist, idealistic Western European people took in hundreds of thousands of these people and offered them mighty nice welfare benefits too which most of them are still making benefit of.

These Muslim "asylum seekers" have rewarded their benefactors for their kindness by raping their women, committing all kinds of apalling crimes, and sucking up excessive welfare benefits that are needed to support Europe's own elderly indigenous people.

When have Muslims ever offered refuge like this to persecuted Christians? Never.

"However, it seems as if slowly, America is changing, (ie. passing laws that contradict the Constitution). Sooner, or later, America cannot be called "The Land of the Free."

Well, we don't want to give rights to people who would turn around and use them to take those rights away from us if they were in the majority -- i.e. Muslims. We don't force Muslims to pay a special tax for the privilege of practicing their religion in America, but Muslims would do this to us if they had the upper hand. We don't expect Muslims to live as second-class citizens without the same legal rights as other Americans, but Muslims would do this to us if they had the chance.

Is that fair? When you go to someone's country and start blabbering about how you would like to change their laws around so that YOU are top dog and they are second-class citizens, how do you expect the residents of that country to behave?

You expect them to welcome you with open arms?

Dream on, lady!!! If you want to live by apartheid-sharia system be my guest - but you ain't doing it in America or any other Western country. Go find some nice backward Muslim country to practice your sharia in.

Ali Dashti
From the websites you have given me, I will assume that you are a non-muslim under a Muslim name, which is extremely low.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531 FRODO,a Christian no doubt, defines Jizya the way he perceives it. There is no way I will accept this.

http://www.dhimmi.com/- AND THIS ONE, I DONT SEE WHERE IT DEFINES JIZYA. ALL IT TALKS ABOUT IS DHIMMI- WHICH IS: a non-Muslim living under the protection of a Muslim state. He is exempt from duties of Islam like military and zakah but must instead pay a tax called jizyah. In addition, this is supported by the jihadwatch.com, which aids in spreading invalid statements regarding Islam.
And, first of all, I wasn't asking you for the definition of Jizya, I wanted to see where he got it from. The definition of Jizya is at this website:

http://www.islamicity.com/IslamicGlossary/action.lasso.asp?database=Services&Table=IslamicGlossary&-noresultserror=SearchGlossary.asp&Response=SearchGlossary.asp&-MaxRecords=10&-SortField=Term& ortOrder=Ascending&-op=cn&fsearch=Jizya&-find

Salams,
Dina

Sunnis riot in Pakistan and persecute Shiias after shooting of Sunni cleric:

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2997871

The Religion of Peace strikes again.

"I would like to know from which source you have recieved your information from. "

My mum is a syrian, i speak arabic.

Jizya comes from the word jaza2 which is punishment and you cannot try to teach me my arabic because I know it. Jizya is NOT tax. Tax is 'dareeba' which is different.

Dina,

Per your description, a non Muslim living in a Muslim state is, in fact, a second class citizen. He pays a special tax (the Jizya)and is precluded from serving his country in any cpacity. Too, a non Muslim is restircted as to as where he can live and what kind of work he can do. I wouldn't call this "living under the protection of a Muslim state", I'd call it involuntary servitude.

Dina, welcome,
we are the Free,
we have different creeds,
are from different levels of society,
we are many colors,
red, yellow black and white
and we are equal on this site
that is guarded by the ancestors,
who look into the left eye
and can tell who tells the lie,
who has the evil eye.

Here are some things about us, the Free,
we hold sacred, life, land, liberty,
we think you should be a good neighbor,
we think you should treat everyone the same
as you treat yourself.
My name is the poetess.

Hi Dina,

No, I don't feel defeated because I didn't respond about Cat Steven's conversion. Susan answered about that eloquently.

Actually, you haven't responded to my post regarding the brainwashed 3 year old child; in addition, you have not remarked about the hate sermons going on in mosques seen on the videos at MEMRI.org. So I take it from your definition of silence that you yourself are defeated on those accounts.

I hope you someday come to the Truth and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

Take care and God Bless.

Dina:

"PS-It seems as if no one is capable of responding to my previous post on Yusuf Estes, who as I repeat, was a former priest in christianity, to Paul Findley, who was a member of the congress for 22 years, who wrote, "Silent No More," to Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam, who was former a pop star.

Posted by: Dina at May 30, 2004 06:23 PM"

We'll answer you right after you explain to us why Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina and many others have seen the light and LEFT Islam. Have you read "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out" or "Why I am Not a Muslim"? HAVE YOU DARED TO GO TO MEMRI.ORG AND WATCH THE ACTUAL VIDEOS OF HATEFUL PREACHING IN MOSQUES? You claim to "know" the truth and yet we are the ones who have done all the research - from MANY sources, not just your "one" source - the satanic qur'an.

Dina~ we get posters here from all over the world (despite the fact that Mahmoud and others seem to beleive we are all Americans posting). I am not familiar with that style of dress and wanted clarification.
It Does look like a version of how women are forced to dress in muslim countries. But as I do Not know for sure, I asked.
So. Why are You reading so much into what I asked?

Hi Dina - one more thing. Please explain to me your definition of Taqiyya. I would like to know what you think about that. I have to go, but will check back later this evening.

Thanks,
Mike

Susan:
We have heard these conversion stories again and again -- Muslims always pull them out when they can't argue the facts properly. They "prove" nothing.

Prove nothing? What do you mean prove nothing? Yusuf Estes was a former priest for YOUR RELIGION. Those people you mentioned are not Sheikhs or Imans. There is not one sheikh or Iman who has converted out of Islam. And for those idiots who did, you know why? Because Islam prohibits people to be attracted toward this materialistic world, and Allah constantly reminds us that there is Afterlife. Islam prohibits many things, only for the good. Those people just couldnt handle it. example- the pork you guys eat, is unlawful for us to eat. Why? Very simple, unless you want those worms in your stomach which is a leading cause for our death, then sure, go ahead. Example- reason Muslim believing women are required to cover outdoors- so that people do not judge us for our looks, rather for what lay in our heart. If this and many other rules is impossible for them to follow, then there are many other religions to follow. Christianity, for example, allows you to do whatever you want, eat whatever you want, drink whatever you want, or wear whatever you want, as long as you accept the blood of Jesus to cleanse your sins. Islam prohibits and allows things only for the good of the people. Islam is way of life, and if thats too difficult for them to understand, then they will have Allah to deal with.

When have Muslims ever offered refuge like this to persecuted Christians? Never."
Wrong, they have. When Christians capture and imprison Muslims, you do not let them go until you have tortured and harassed them. However, during our Prophets (S) time, when the Christian captives were caught, they were allowed to go free, with not a single scratch on their body.

I am not here to change Americas law according to our Sharia. And, again, you ignorant people seem to judge our religion based on nominal followers, and stereotypes. Tell me, have you ever opened up the Quran, and read it yourself? Obviosuly not, because I would not have to listen to all this nonsense. I advise you, open up the Quran yourself, and read what it has to say, before spreading lies about it. I really feel sorry for you guys on the Day of Judgement.

Salams,
Dina

Dina:

"I really feel sorry for you guys on the Day of Judgement."

Fortunately, that day is coming REAl SOON for oh, about a BILLION Muslims.

Dina wrote: "Allah (SWT), is telling us, that we are allowed to fight back against those who refuse to let us practice our religion"

Does this mean that it is allowed to fight those who refuse to apply sharia in Sweden for example?

Am I an enemy for being for western democracy and human rights?

Am I an enemy that should be fought with weapons because I think and say that Mohammad was one of the more evil founders of religions?

You people can believe a lot of things if you like but I will hold on to my secular/rationalist/social democratic views and change then when I choose freely to do so.

"When have Muslims ever offered refuge like this to persecuted Christians? Never."
Wrong, they have. When Christians capture and imprison Muslims, you do not let them go until you have tortured and harassed them. However, during our Prophets (S) time, when the Christian captives were caught, they were allowed to go free, with not a single scratch on their body."

No, millions of Christians were captured and sold as slaves in the Muslim world for centuries. Captured Christian women made up most of the harems of the Ottoman Sultans. Captured Christian boys were forced to convert to Islam and fight in the Muslim armies. This went on for centuries.

I repeat, When did Muslims ever provide refuge for Christians who were being persecuted in their own lands? When did Muslims provide welfare benefits, modern apartments, food and job hunting skills to Christians fleeing from war or persecution?

In the US we provided refuge and resettlement for Afghans, Iragis, Bosnians, Iranians, Kosovars and Albanians who were all being persecuted and/or fleeing war-torn situations. US took in 90,000 refugees from the Balkan war alone.

I've met some of these people myself. Many Christian churches worked in resettling these people and gave of their own charity to Muslim settlers and refugees. The Western European people did the same, even providing free medical care and fat welfare benefits for jihadi scum who want to destroy their way of life! When did the Muslims ever provide fat welfare benefits and free medical care to refugee Christians who then turned around and said they wanted to destroy the Muslim way of life? Never happened!

You haven't answered my question Dina -- when did Muslims ever give Christians refuge from persecution and/or war?

Dina

Yes, I've heard of Cat Stevens. He was caught donating money to Hamas, a group of genocidal terrorists whose aim is the complete destruction of Israel. I think I preferred him before he converted to Islam. His music may have been worthless pap, but at least he wasn't actively supporting genocide against non-Muslims.

Dina - Go up to Hugh's post. He has eloquently outclassed you. As for taking parts of the Koran and hadiths, we use them to make a point. He really has said everything that needs to be said and we are the post scripts.

We are reading to learn more about a culture and ideology that is threatening our existence and we will continue to do so.

If we were in the shoes of immigrants to an Islamic country, we would not have the political and religious rights that Muslims enjoy in this country. We would be second-class citizens, dhimmis, at best, or perhaps we would have been multilated or killed.

It must be a shock to know that people here actually don't want to become Muslim and don't want Islam forced down their throats. We don't want to live under Sharia. We expect immigrants to conform and to assimilate to American culture. If they don't want to do so, or are unable to do so, they are free to return to their countries of origin.

Cat Stevens also supported the death fatwa on Salman Rushdie. He said that if he saw Rushdie in his neighborhood he'd call up some Muslim friends of his he knew who wanted to kill Rushdie and tell them to come over and get them.

Cat Stevens also supports sharia in Britain.

Very peaceful kind of guy. NOT!

Cat Stevens also supported the death fatwa on Salman Rushdie. He said that if he saw Rushdie in his neighborhood he'd call up some Muslim friends of his he knew who wanted to kill Rushdie and tell them to come over and get him.

Cat Stevens also supports sharia in Britain.

Very peaceful kind of guy. NOT!

Dina,

"I really feel sorry for you guys on the day of Judgement."

What an amazing statement! So not only are we non-Muslims to be treated as second class citizens on Earth, we can't even gain Paradise! Are you presuming to speak for Allah?

Actually, any Paradise that harbors bigots like you and Mahmoud isn't worth being in.

Sorry for the double post.

Soldiers christ
“My mum is a syrian, i speak arabic.
Jizya comes from the word jaza2 which is punishment and you cannot try to teach me my arabic because I know it. Jizya is NOT tax. Tax is 'dareeba' which is different.”
Well, as we are all humans, we do make mistakes. Just becasue you're mum is syrian and speaks Arabic, does not mean she knows islam. There are always several meanings for one word, but the one kc brought up had to do with tax. Jizya is tax, and this is final.

Mike
“No, I don't feel defeated because I didn't respond about Cat Steven's conversion. Susan answered about that eloquently.”
Maybe because you and neither she couldn’t?

“Actually, you haven't responded to my post regarding the brainwashed 3 year old child; in addition, you have not remarked about the hate sermons going on in mosques seen on the videos at MEMRI.org. So I take it from your definition of silence that you yourself are defeated on those accounts.”
You want to know why? Because, do I know this three year old girl? Do I know who you are talking about? From all these lies you are telling me about Islam, do you think I will believe what you say about the three year girl. In the world we are living in, kids are maturing so fast, and they are being taught things which should not be taught. They are viewing scenes, which change their whole child-like mind. They are seeing their Muslim brother being shot by three Israeli soldiers, who shoot despite the fact the he screamed and cried and hid in his fathers lap behind a small square stone. Despite the fact that both he, and his dad asked for mercy. Despite the fact that he was only a 5 year old. How can you ignore that? How can somone just let that go, and how can three human beings have the audacity to kill a younng boy. In fact, they killed him, but not the father, who asked NOT FOR HIS LIFE, BUT FOR HIS SON! I can tell you so many more stories, Mike. You want to know why I didn’t respond? Because, if I did I would go on and on, and this stupid website will not allow me to post my comments, in a country where speech and writing is supposedly allowed. Brainwashed? You tell me who’s brainwashing her.

Gary:
“It Does look like a version of how women are forced to dress in muslim countries. But as I do Not know for sure, I asked.
So. Why are You reading so much into what I asked.”

I really don’t know whether to laugh or cry. So why am I reading? O gee, Gary, I really don’t know. Maybe because this website allows people to post stuff up, (ie. To respond to other peoples statement). I don’t know what you’ve been doing, Gary, but, see, I read what other people write, and I tend to respond to what they write. I don’t know if that sounds weird to you, but I do that so please, forgive me for acting like a human being.
OK, you may think that because women do not go out with their legs showing, and their breasts hanging out, and other disgusting images, that they are oppressed? Just because they CHOOSE to cover themselves from head to toe, that means they are being oppressed? We, the true believing Muslim women, wear our scarves, cover ourselves out in the public so that people recognize us for who we are, and how we make of ourselves, not for our physical persona, and for our bodies. Women, are being constantly used and misused as objects in this world. “Don’t judge a book by its cover.” This old adage has been repeatedly told to younger kids, whose ears are worn out from hearing it. Regardless, it seems as if majorities of people do not comply with this proverb, and continue judging other people by their appearance rather then by their personality. Physical persona does and should not play any role. It is the inside that counts not the outside. That is why we wear our scarves. The Hijab is an approach that stops the meaningless display of women who are constantly being used and misused as objects in today’s world. Hijab gives one an identity, and people begin to see the real you! They begin to see beyond your physical attributes, and that my brothers and sisters, is the greatest freedom anyone can ever ask for.

Salams
Dina

Dina, I know that Muslim men get 72 virgins when they get to paradise, but what do the women get? 72 piles of laundry? And by the way, thanks SO much for trying to whitewash a religion where it's permissible to beat women, you're doing a really GREAT job, sister.

Dina: "Ali Dashti
From the websites you have given me, I will assume that you are a non-muslim under a Muslim name, which is extremely low. "

Why? I have told people before here that yes, I am in fact an European non-Muslim, but I am also a fervent supporter of the FAST-GROWING movement of ex-Mulims. Ali Dashti was an Iranian ex-Muslim who ripped the Koran to pieces in his great book "23 years". He was of course tortured for writing it by Khomeini's regime, even though he was in his 80s. He died in prison. I hold him in high esteem. Don't see anything "low" in that.

Dina; I don't know the other two Muslim converts you'd mentioned (are we to be impressed?), but Cat Stevens, yes...what's happened to him? Is this what conversion to Islam means -- no longer practicing a God-given talent (music!) that its sinful?
"15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:15-20
No surprises here.

Decency:

“Fortunately, that day is coming REAl SOON for oh, about a BILLION Muslims.”
Seems to me as if you guys are the terrorists.

Curious:

“Does this mean that it is allowed to fight those who refuse to apply sharia in Sweden for example?”
I will repeat myself. We are being told to fight against those who REFUSE TO LET US PRACTICE OUR RELGION! I hope that clears it up.
“Am I an enemy for being for western democracy and human rights?”
Did anyone say you were?
“Am I an enemy that should be fought with weapons because I think and say that Mohammed was one of the more evil founders of religions?”
Then what do you call yourself? An Islamic lover? Yes, you should be fought with, but not with weapons. Maybe you would like to do that, maybe that is in your nature, but you should be fought with words, as long as you do not pass laws that do not let us practice our religion that way it should be.
“You people can believe a lot of things if you like but I will hold on to my secular/rationalist/social democratic views and change then when I choose freely to do so.”
Go ahead, as long as you don’t spread lies about our religion, and prohibit the practice of our religion, the true Muslims are perfectly fine with that.

Susan:
“You haven't answered my question Dina -- when did Muslims ever give Christians refuge from persecution and/or war?”
Don’t say I haven’t. Because I just did, and its not my problem that you refuse to accept it.
“Cat Stevens also supported the death fatwa on Salman Rushdie. He said that if he saw Rushdie in his neighborhood he'd call up some Muslim friends of his he knew who wanted to kill Rushdie and tell them to come over and get them.”
People like Salman Rushdie don’t deserve to live. All that crap hes spreading about Islam. And so what if he supported the death fatwa? If you must know, you country gives the death penalty to an American traitor. This is the same as us giving the death penalty to traitors, who convert out of Islam, and then spread lies about it. However, this is not the case. That person is said to be given three days, in which scholars sit around him, and clarify his doubts. If he still refuses to convert back to Islam after those three days, then he is to be locked in prison forever. This is far better than the punishment YOUR COUNTRY GIVES TO TRAITORS.
“Cat Stevens also supports sharia in Britain.”
Yes, your point?

Smitty:
“What an amazing statement! So not only are we non-Muslims to be treated as second class citizens on Earth, we can't even gain Paradise! Are you presuming to speak for Allah?”
I am extremely sorry Smitty. I told you before, the truth hurts. Because once you study Islam from the Quran, you will realize that any other religion besides it should not exist. Christianity is full of so many flaws, I don’t know how people can ignore them and still follow it. I spread the word of God to others, and what Allah (SWT) says in the Quran, and orders for us Muslims to do.
Salam,
Dina

Dina

I'm glad you don't wish to impose sharia law on the US. Unfortunately, CAIR have stated that they do wish to impose sharia law on the US, and they wield rather more influence than you in the muslim community. So are you calling the leaders of CAIR 'nominal followers' and 'stereotypes'?

"People like Salman Rushdie don’t deserve to live."

I think that tells us all we need to know about Dina.

Christine:
“Dina, I know that Muslim men get 72 virgins when they get to paradise, but what do the women get? 72 piles of laundry? And by the way, thanks SO much for trying to whitewash a religion where it's permissible to beat women, you're doing a really GREAT job, sister.”

Who said they get 72 piles of laundry? For the beating of a women, this is as an extremely last resort. When? When they refuse to follow Islam, and its rules and regulations. When they insist on going out with some other guy, or when they refuse to dress modestly. Then, they are to be disciplined. The way you say beat, its as if the husband slaps her across the face till she bleeds. No, they cannot be beaten this way. You cannot hit them where it leaves a mark on their face or anywhere on their body. They are required to discipline them with a small stick, a miswack. However, this is as an extremely last resort. And I am sure, Insha Allah, that none of the women behave in a way that is identical to a slut or prostitute.

Ali Dashti
“Ali Dashti was an Iranian ex-Muslim who ripped the Koran to pieces in his great book "23 years".
Good for him, May Allah forgive him for performing such an act.
Good for him, May Allah forgive him for performing such an act. Yes, that is extremely low. How would you like it if I ripped your Bible in front of your face?

daughter of patriots
“Dina; I don't know the other two Muslim converts you'd mentioned (are we to be impressed?), but Cat Stevens, yes...what's happened to him? Is this what conversion to Islam means -- no longer practicing a God-given talent (music!) that its sinful”
How do you know he doesn’t? His islamic Music is one of the most listened halal music. So go and learn more about him before posting things up. And those other two, actually it was one, Yusuf Estes. He was a PRIEST in CHRISTIANITY. He converted to Islam. Pretty amazing isnt it? And the other one, Paul Findley, who was a member of the congress for 22 years. I don’t even know whether he is Muslim, and I couldn’t care less. All I advise you to do is to read his book, SILENT NO MORE. It is an excellent book.

Salams,
Dina

Dina,

"...once you study Islam from the Quran, you will realize that other religion besides it should not exist."

You have the certainty of a true fanatic or an imbecile. Your words are full of scorn and hatred toward others and I find them repulsive. You try to sound so nice and reasonable but your religion is full of murder and destruction. You seem to be an educated person, yet you are truly ignorant.

By the way, I have read the Quran and I reject it. See you in Hell.

As an example ex-princess Diana of england was going to marry an egyptian Muslim Brother so she can embrace Holy Islam but they were ASSASSINED in their cold blood with the evil hope that the murderers can stop the will of Almighty Allah (swt).

Every decent westerner with a peacefull sense and away from anti-muslim propaganda who came to embrace Holy Islam and live with the rest of the Brothers and Sisters, is under repression of brutalic regimes of west with the mask of democracy and freedom. Stop your agression and learn about true Islam so we can all live in peace together.

Dina:

I'm sorry to hear about the story of the 5 year old boy, if this happended as you described. Do you know where I can find addition details?

Dina: "Christianity, for example, allows you to do whatever you want, eat whatever you want, drink whatever you want, or wear whatever you want, as long as you accept the blood of Jesus to cleanse your sins."

Jews followed 613 rules in the Old Covenant, when Jesus shed his blood (New Covenant) for us (John 3:16)believers were not to remain the same but be transformed with God's laws written in their hearts "be holy as I am holy".

The apostle Paul in a heated discussion in a council meeting in Jerusalem with fellow believers in Jesus said: 19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood." -Acts 15:19-20.

In those days it was the Gentile who was the unusual comer to Christ, in a culture of mostly Jewish, Christ followers. Some insisted that Gentiles must be circumcised (like them) to become believers in Jesus. Paul said if that is true than all the 613 other old laws are still valid as well.

1st century Gentiles & Jews were living in a mostly pagan culture, which included frenzied ceremonies ending in sexual consummation and the biting into living animals. Which is why we see these common sense "rules", besides the one Jesus considered the most important "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind, and your neighbor as yourself."

Could someone enlighten me as to what exactly the "satanic verses" were?

Dina - You are compelled to fight against those that won't allow you to "practice your religion." Hmm. What kind of religion is it that allows fighting. Surely that can't be a tenet of a peaceful religion!

Does your religion require that the rest of us cave in to your religion? Is that how you "practice your religion?" Does your religion require that the rest of us give you special privileges that aren't afforded to other citizens? Is that how "you practice your religion?" Does your religion make you above the laws of the country in which you reside? Is that how you "practice your religion?"

Does your religion make you stick out like a sore thumb in the manner of your dress, your dietary habits, your social behavior, etc., forbidding you to assimilate into the culture of your new host country?

Does your religion require you to be arrogant and obnoxious to non-Muslims, using taqiyya and kitman? Is this a good example of your religion? Why would anyone want to associate themselves with an obnoxious boor that lies to them?

We can and do read the Koran and the Hadiths for ourselves and we don't like what we have learned, and simply put, we don't want our country to become Islamized.

Ban the Trash:
"People like Salman Rushdie don’t deserve to live."
I think that tells us all we need to know about Dina.
Don’t speak for others. And puh-lease. America does this to their traitors also, so do not tell me you have got a problem with what our Sharia says. In addition, our Sharia gives a second chance to those apostates.

Infidel23

“I'm glad you don't wish to impose sharia law on the US. Unfortunately, CAIR have stated that they do wish to impose sharia law on the US, and they wield rather more influence than you in the muslim community. So are you calling the leaders of CAIR 'nominal followers' and 'stereotypes'?”
First of all, I am not a scholar in Islam, so I cannot say whether Islam urges Muslims to force the Sharia on other countries. And, secondly, before CAIR goes out and even tries imposing the Sharia, I think they should first go and do this to the so-called Muslim states. Our Muslim community has a lot to learn, and I am not saying we are perfect. We are low in Iman, and we have to pull ourselves together, and wake up. And Insha Allah you guys will realize the truth.

Salams Dina

Dina,

Since in America we believe in the separation of church and state, I don't think it's equivelent to compare Salman Rushdie's leaving Islam to how the US would view a national traitor. We do not prosecute people for leaving Christianity or any other religion.

Ultach- "The Satanic Verses" was a novel written by the Indian novelist Salman Rushdie in which he criticized Islam. He made reference to certain verses in the Koran which the Prophet later repudiated, saying that they must have come from Satan. For his criticism, Rushdie had a death sentence put on his head by one of those mafia-style clerics that arrange hits on those that they feel "offend" Islam. That's how Islam deals with criticism: they kill the critics.

Dina's pretty funny. Ask her a simple question in one's quest for knowledge and you get diatribe.

At least I was proved right- she Did read a lot into it. A lot of Hooey.
And the question was never answered. I'm sure I will find the answer on my own... no muslim posting here is capable of it.

Happy Memorial Day, everyone!

~Your grandchildren will go on Hajj in Porky Pig costumes.

Dina: Ali Dashti ripped the Koran into pieces WITH HIS LOGIC, not physically. Which isn't that difficult, really, but his "23 years" does it in a very elegant way.

http://www.mazdapub.com/Twenty-Three-Years.htm

This study of Mohammad’s prophetic career by a modern Iranian thinker will be of great value to everyone interested in Islam and the Moslem people. Through the use of the early sources t