...stirred calls in the media? Hardly. I live in Japan, and I can tell you that the only time the media mentions Jihad it is to bash the USA.

People hate us everywhere.

Bart,
I personally don't believe people hate the Americans at all. The main issue is that the Americans and the country America(i.e., USA) are being jealoused. They want to have facilities like the Americans but they don't, they even want to come to America, but the can't because they will not be given visa.
Hence, the only thing they could resort to is to envy and do everything against the Country.
Personally, I am not an American, I have never even applied to America either to study or as a visitor,I have not even been to any American Embassy before!, but I love America, and it is just a personal interest that's all.
So although some may not like Americans or the country America, it is not everybody that hates them, many times it is because they are jealous! Some still love them dearly.
God bless America and all other countries that support the fight for freedom!

Perhaps not as many hate us as you might think, Bart.

An interesting analysis on the Weekly Standard (source: http://www.weeklystandard.com) called The Angry Iraqi points out interesting media bias on the part of Rueters, where Rueters' objectivity falls under suspicion when compared to polls done by ABC News.

A most interesting paragraph was this:

"Polls, most recently a March 2004 ABC News survey show that Iraqis are as divided about the war as we are. According to the review, 48 percent of Iraqis thought the United States was right to invade; 51 percent want coalition forces gone, though in months, not immediately, 39 percent want Coalition troops to stay. Though Reuters reports prominently feature Iraqis who favor the slaughtering of Coalition forces, only 17 percent of Iraqis favor attacks while 78 percent oppose them."

This is far from the unified front posed by some media organizations of the “angry Arab Street,” and from some posters here that seem to want to suggest that all Iraqis are uniformly again the invasion and subsequent occupation.

In Japan, Jihad supporters could be smuggled in among the Koreans. During the Korean War, Turkish soldiers managed to convert large numbers of South Koreans -- remember, every Muslim has a duty to perform daw'a, to help convert others. Some reports suggest there are now, as a result, 50,000 Muslims in South Korea. These figures need to be checked, and Korean, Japanese, and American security services must investigate this source of people who could, if they wished, blend in. Nothing like an attack on American servicemen in Japan to demonstrate one's potency. Ordinarily, the pride taken in one's ancestry, in China, Japan, Korea, and similar pride in a rich cultural heritage, stand in the way of Islam. The Cultural Revolution, in its war on Chinese scholars and its indifference to everything in China but Communism, and in the deliberate destruction of old manuscripts and artifacts (see Simon Leys' "Chinese Shadows" and "The Emperor's New Clothes") was akin to Islam, in its indifference or primitive hostility to everything outside itself).

Meanwhile, watch those converts, the descendants of those who, perhaps grateful to Turkish soldiers, started listening to their siren-songs.

Christianity, on the other hand, spread in Korea through other means, and in particular through the work of the Rev. Horace J. Underwood (the name smacks, I know, of a character played by Groucho Marx), of the typewriter-family, who brought Presbyterianism to Korea, and founded Chosen Christian College (it has changed its name to something I forget). It was he who converted half of Korea to the Presbyterianism that causes us, today, to see those comforting signs, in Korean, outside otherwise sparsely-attended churches. Here's to Reverend Underwood!

One hopes that all manner of help will be given to Christian missionaries in China, who stand a good chance of beating Islam at the game of conversion, if properly funded.

This is far from the unified front posed by some media organizations of the “angry Arab Street,” and from some posters here that seem to want to suggest that all Iraqis are uniformly again the invasion and subsequent occupation.

Personally, I've about had it with the majority of the mainstream media when it comes to reporting about Iraq. I'm really starting to think they're working with the Jihadists.

Several of my co-workers have recently returned from tours in Iraq, and I can tell you that they all just shake their heads in disbelief at the crap that poses for news coverage. If you go by what our major news outlets tell you, then a typical day for US troops in Iraq is something like a scene out of "Black Hawk Down," with death or dismemberment lurking down every alley.

Sorry, but it's simply not true.

There is no vast "popular insurgency" fighting to "free Iraq from the foreign invaders." There are a few thousand assholes running around with RPGs, AK-47s and scavenged explosives. More often than not, they kill more Iraqis than Americans (although they then blame the Americans for the deaths, of course).

These people aren't fighting to "free" Iraq. They're fighting to install members of whatever faction they belong to as the new dictators.

people hate muslims everywhere.

I am glad to hear that Dase. I'm glad we have some true friends.

Check out this site, as stirring a defence of the United States and its values as I have ever read:

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/

Hey Muslimpride:

Why don't you think about WHY people hate Muslims everywhere? And, why does Allah hate you so much? Why does Allah love Western civilization so much? Why is Allah so nice to us? Why doesn't Allah just make us disappear? He is all-powerful isn't he? Why didn't Allah give you nuclear weapons, mighty armies and big houses in the suburbs with hot and cold running water? What could Allah be thinking? What is Allah's problem? Why is he so impotent? Don't you understand? Allah HATES YOU! Allah LOVES US!

Dase Glad to have you on Board.
One thing though we know we have people who Hate the USA because we have a Huge hole in New York City!
We Know that the Iraqi people want Freedom and they will have it what they do with it is up to them they have Many choices.
I have traveled to many countrys and seen many Beautiful things and also many ugly things the big difference is the USA airs her dirty laundry most other countrys do not. I wish our media loved the USA like you love your country we have a huge enemy to defeat!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Catherine this should fill the "Huge hole in New York City!"

Freedom towers

muslmpride
If you people would quit killing Poeple then we could get along there are many mulsums in the USA and they say nothing when your Kind cut mens heads off because they will not convert? Why were you silent when saddam killed 300,000 Iraqis? why do you say you are peaceful and go kill all those people in Africa? we see you for what you are and will not let you win!!!!
Can you eat oil?
We can use our grains to feed our cars!!!

The Arabs need the USA more than we need them!
Your cry of poverty does not work any more!!!

We are waiting for you to prove you are worth saving!

Our President said either you are with us or you are against us and he speeks for the American people your lies do not work any more we are awake!!!

Remember a Gun in hand is worth 2 cops on the phone!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Looks nice!

Part of the American Tribe

God bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the couras to Victory amen

Dase~

I'm comenting on a former statement of yours about how people dislike (or in some cases hate America) eason being they are just plain jelious. I agreefully, people want what they cant have and want to bring down those who have it.

Here, there,
they are everywhere,
like rats,
scurrying,
carrying a disease,
of oppression,
due to belief
in submission
to the twin gods
mohamet and allah.

I had a teacher
who was Japanese,
a kindly man,
but strict I found,
and when he was displeased,
you could hear his sounds.

May his spirit be a gatekeeper
for all of the Free,
red and yellow black and white
we are equal in the Sight.

May his spirit of kindness
and compassion fashion
a lover's knot over
the heart of all muslims
and be balm for the pain of islam.

It's a fallacy that everyone in the world, including the Middle East, hates Western, and particularly American culture. Many young Iranians love American culture and even though they have to be discreet about it, listen to American music, watch American movies, in private so the "Tazi morality police" doesn't find out. Not only that, young boys and girls date each other behind the mullahs' backs.

Incidentally, Iranians innately have a stronger identification with the Western world anyways: they are Aryan, and have nothing in common with Tazi religion or culture.

listen the problem with the mentality of both sides the pro islmaic and the radical anti islamic (which is over prominently evident on this site) is that generalizations are being made and stereotypes are being given out. entire races of people are being labeled as terrorists and what not just because of the bad actions of a few peole. For instance, just because of the group of people who heartlessly cut the head of an american soilder that dosen't mean that all muslims are killers and allare capable of committing such atrocities as this. And the same goes for the americans, just because a group of them stripped down their prisoners of war and abused them in such negative ways that does not mean that every single american person is capable of doing the same.
i myself am both a muslim girl and an american born citizen. I am proud of my religion and do not apreciate it being degraded just the way i am proud of being an American and do not appreciate america being hated by others.
the main point is we all want peace, am i correct? well i hope so, but anyway
there will never even be the slightest posiibility of us acheiving peace if both sides pro and anti islam DO NOT STOP MAKING GENERALIZATIONS, STEREOTYPES, AND GINING LABELS.

listen the problem with the mentality of both sides the pro islmaic and the radical anti islamic (which is over prominently evident on this site) is that generalizations are being made and stereotypes are being given out. entire races of people are being labeled as terrorists and what not just because of the bad actions of a few peole. For instance, just because of the group of people who heartlessly cut the head of an american soilder that dosen't mean that all muslims are killers and allare capable of committing such atrocities as this. And the same goes for the americans, just because a group of them stripped down their prisoners of war and abused them in such negative ways that does not mean that every single american person is capable of doing the same.
i myself am both a muslim girl and an american born citizen. I am proud of my religion and do not apreciate it being degraded just the way i am proud of being an American and do not appreciate america being hated by others.
the main point is we all want peace, am i correct? well i hope so, but anyway
there will never even be the slightest posiibility of us acheiving peace if both sides pro and anti islam DO NOT STOP MAKING GENERALIZATIONS, STEREOTYPES, AND GINING LABELS.

MON

I don't have to make generalizations about how crappy your religion is; I can be specific:

What is Shari'a?

Here are some examples of Shari'a law:

1. Offensive, military jihad against non-Muslims is a communal, religious obligation;
2. A person who is ignorant about Islamic legal opinion must follow the legal opinion of a scholar;
3. The penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death;
4. When slaughtering animals for food, a knife must be used to cut the windpipe and gullet;
5. A woman is only eligible to receive half the inheritance of a man;
6. Marriage may be forced on virgins by their father or father’s father;
7. A non-Arab man may not marry an Arab woman;
8. A woman must seek permission from her husband to leave the house;
9. A Muslim man cannot marry a woman who is a Zoroastrian, an idol worshipper, an apostate from Islam or a woman with one parent who is Jewish or Christian, with the other being Zoroastrian; a Muslim woman cannot marry anyone but a Muslim;
10. A free Muslim man may marry up to four women;
11. Retaliation is obligatory in most cases when someone is deliberately murdered except when a Muslim kills a non-Muslim, a Jew or a Christian kills a Muslim apostate or a father or mother kill their offspring;
12. Non-Muslim subjects (Ahl al-Dhimma) of a Muslim state are subject to a series of discriminatory laws – “dhimmitude”;
13. The penalty for fornication or sodomy is being stoned to death;
14. The penalty for an initial theft is amputation of the right hand. Subsequent thefts are penalized by further amputations of feet and hand;
15. A non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim in court; a person who is “without respectability” cannot give legal testimony; a woman’s legal testimony is only given half the legal weight of a man’s (and is only acceptable in cases involving property); to legally prove fornication or sodomy requires 4 male witnesses who actually saw the act;
16. The establishment and continuation of the Islamic Caliphate (by force, if necessary) is a communal obligation;
17. Sodomites and Lesbians must be killed;
18. Laughing too much is forbidden;
19. Musical instruments are unlawful;
20. Creating pictures of animate life is forbidden;
21. Female circumcision, which includes the excision of the clitoris, is obligatory;
22. Slavery is permitted;
23. People may be bribed to convert to Islam;
24. Beating a rebellious wife is permissible; and,
25. Lying is permissible in a time of war (or jihad).

Here is a link to a website on which I have posted the actual legal clauses and references for the above examples:

http://boston.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/21475

MON: Remember, history has shown: ALLAH HATES YOU; ALLAH loves Western Civilization.

MON

Nobody here is saying that all Muslims are terrorists and killers. That would be an absurd thing to say. What we are saying is that the Koran contains many passages which command Muslims to attack non-Muslims, to torture and mistreat non-Muslims, and so on. In other words, Jihad. Do you renounce Jihad? Or do you think Shariah law should exist in the USA?

Mon - Answer some questions. If your cleric issued a fatwa to plant a bomb, would you feel compelled to obey that fatwa? If your cleric requested that you assist terrorists, would you obey that request so that you would not seem un-Islamic?

This is not farfetched. Radical clerics all over the world issue fatwas which require violent responses against non-Muslims and other Muslims as well. And more and more radical clerics are found in mosques today. For this and many other reasons, many non-Muslims distrust the Muslims among them.

Mon, what would YOU do?

Thank you Mon.
Most are very sympathetic towards
'moderate' muslims.
Moderate muslims have a decision
to make.
If you followed the teachings of
Hitler but thought they went just
a bit too far, could you be a
'moderate' nazi. And if your
kids learn to understand the
world through hitlers' teachings,
can you guarantee that one of them,
will not become a literalist, and thus
a menace to the civilized world.
Thus moderate muslim parents often
find their children have become
extremists with regard to religion.
This happens in all religions, but
is only dangerous in the moslem
'religion' where a young person
can redeem him/herself with allah
and much of his/her community
by becoming a shaheed, and
murdering non-muslims.
It's one of many poisons
in the teachings of mahomed aka the
prophet.
The underlying problem is the teachings.
I would suggest that there are any
number of rich and wonderful 'teachings',
christian, jewish, hindu, buddhist, jane,
shinto, pagan, confucian, bahai, sikh,
mormon, zoroastrian, etc, all of which
are light years ahead of the degeneracy
and total madness called islam/muslim.
The decision is yours.

Allah hates you MON. Allah hates all Muslims. Allah shows how he hates Muslims every day. Every day he shows you, MON, how he loves Western Civilization as he helps us destroy Islam. Why is Allah helping us destroy Islam, MON? Because Allah hates Islam.

Allah hates you MON. He has been hating you for a long time now. Allah demonstrated that he hated you in Spain in 1492. Allah showed that he hated you at Lepanto in 1571. Allah said, "I hate you" at Vienna in 1683. Allah showed that he hated you in 1699 when the Habsburgs recovered Hungary. Allah demonstrated he hated you again in 1770 when the Russians destroyed the Ottoman fleet at Cesme. 1771 - Allah gives Crimea to the Russians. Allah gives Serbia and Greece back to the Serbs and Greeks in 1829. Allah gives Crete away - 1908. Allah gives Bulgaria back to the Bulgarians - 1909. Allah gives Bosnia-Herzegovina away - 1909. Allah gives Montenegro away - 1910. ALLAH DISBANDS THE MUSLIM CALIPHATE - 1924. Why would he do that, pray tell? 1948 - Allah creates Israel. Do you understand yet, Mahmoud? ALLAH HATES YOU. Allah loves Western civilization.

Allah loves me yes I know. For my history tells me so.

Allah hates Islam MON. That is why Allah helped Kemal Ataturk come to power. That is why he helped the United States become the most powerful country on earth. That is why he has made Muslims the most miserable people on earth. Allah hates Islam MON. That is what Allah is telling you. Actions speak louder than words MON. Allah hates Islam.

MON:

Allah is telling you that he made a mistake. Every day Allah makes Western Civilization more powerful. Every day Allah makes Muslims weak, poor and miserable. Every day Allah helps us destroy Islam. Why is Allah doing this MON? Why has Allah abandoned Islam? Because Allah knows he made a mistake. Allah is helping us destroy Islam because he wants to fix his mistake. ALLAH HATES YOU MON.

I think that was a little uncalled for. How would you like it if I claimed your God hated you? I think you went way overboard.

Just because the Koran tells them to kill non-muslims, or to turn them or kill them, does not mean that all follow that seriously. How many christians can you name that take the Bible that litterally? Not a whole lot. Most don't aren't even able to quote one single passage from the bible, but they still claim to be christian. Maybe these Muslims believe in Allah and not everything that the Koran tells them. That's not to say of course that some don't, and most of them are called terrorists. But when you look at the big picture, most of the ones living here love America and the people in it, but still stay devoted to thier religion. Don't look so deeply into things, that will just make you spout stereotypes like you have just done.

Stop spreading hate because of what the media, or some half-truthed website tells you. Just because you are afraid because of the war does not mean you have to fear a certain race, that's what the Nazi's did, and look where it got them. I'm not saying your Nazi's, or anything close, just don't say something so rude and inconsiderate to your fellow man.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/06/04/op.htm#1

"Thus, the only appropriate answer to the criticism on the doctrine of inseparability of religion from the state lies in due compliance with the true spirit of relevant Islamic teachings and values by those who claim to be ruling their states on the basis of this concept. " Dawn is a the most 'liberal' newspaper and can go only this far to make funny statements like this. If 'liberals' are like this, it is no wonder that 'moderates' are killing each other in shia-sunni violence and 'extremists' are going to Japan.

Jen

"Just because the Koran tells them to kill non-muslims, or to turn them or kill them, does not mean that all follow that seriously."

Of course not. But how will we know they don't follow it seriously unless they get up and tell us that? MON looked like she might be getting there, but we're still waiting for her to clarify her position on Jihad, Shariah etc. We're really keen to see some Muslims do this. Perhaps you can help us, by giving us some examples of Muslims who have emphatically renounced Jihad, Shariah, and Islamic terrorism. Since there are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, there must be plenty of them who've clearly denounced these things, mustn't there? Help us out here, Jen.

Jen, i thought Mentat was very
funny - how else to
communicate with / about the ridiculous.
The teachings of mohomed aka the prophet,
are about as reasonable as
the teachings of adolf hitler
Try the sharia on for size,
or the way it is used as law
in actual practise
in different muslim dominant
countries.
Brutal, stupid, ugly, primitive.
And any number of muslims in
my city will talk about
the perfect world under sharia.

I take the " with " out, re
"communicating with /about the
ridiculous".
I did not wish to suggest
that Mon was ridiculous, not
for a minute. All people
have my respect until they
prove they don't deserve it.
Thank you for
your valued input Mon.

Mentat-
Your ruthless with the truth...poor MON. Sometimes a little shock and awe is good medicine.
Jen-
I'm glad your still around, you seem to have a good mind. Maybe we can bend it a bit to the right.

MON:

Do you renounce the concept of the establishment of a worldwide Islamic Caliphate? Do you pledge allegiance to the United States of America?

While you may in fact be a non-violent person, the problem we here on this site have is with the basic tenets of your belief system that clearly state an agenda which delineates the forced conversion of all non-Muslims worldwide under pain of death - the "convert or die" plan. References to this from your own scriptures have been cited ad nauseum on this site; no Muslim posting here has ever denied that this is what Islam preaches and intends to accomplish. Where do you stand on this, especially as an American Muslim?

I realize that you may feel bombarded by so many responses to your post, but please answer my question. And please - no taqiyya or kitman.

Jen, Jen, Jen. Let's examine what you said in detail, shall we?

You said:
"Just because the Koran tells them to kill non-muslims, or to turn them or kill them, does not mean that all follow that seriously. How many christians can you name that take the Bible that litterally? Not a whole lot. "

But the point is the Koran is not ambiguous about these matters. Are you going to do what millions of moderate Muslims cannot do? You're welcome to it. I'm looking forward to your explaining that the verse of the sword, for instance, no longer applies. Simply ignoring those commands is burying your head in the sand. As history has shown us, that simply doesn't work.

And about Christians taking the Bible literally, what good is it to claim to be something yet not struggle to live up to it? Those people are also ignoring what the Bible says; needless to say, liberal Christians don't do well in debates, because they too hide their heads in the sand and ignore passages they don't like.

"Most don't aren't even able to quote one single passage from the bible, but they still claim to be christian. Maybe these Muslims believe in Allah and not everything that the Koran tells them."

But again, they can't justify their claims to be Muslims when faced with someone who lives by that book. That's why the moderate Muslims have been silent.

"Don't look so deeply into things, that will just make you spout stereotypes like you have just done."

Don't examine. Don't question. Don't wonder. Just ignore. Oh and of course analysis makes us all stereotypers. Right...

~NMJ

No, I"m not burying my head in the sand, I just believe in the good in the human race and if that makes me wrong then whats the point in being here? Because all we're going to do the entire time is fear oneanother. I AM NOT CHRISTIAN let me make that clear. And I am not Muslim. I, if anything, am agnostic. But I do have a friend that is Muslim and he has stated clearly, that he does not take everything in the Koran seriously, he is not in anyway a threat to anyone, and he doesn't sit idoly by. I remember one time we were watching the news and it showed a group of Muslim's burning and stomping on an American flag, he shook his head and said,"Poor misguided souls." But he stands firm that he is an avid Muslim, he just refuses to believe that he must hurt anyone.

I do question, and I do wonder but when you say things like,"MON: Remember, history has shown: ALLAH HATES YOU; ALLAH loves Western Civilization." I tend to get a little defensive, just as I would for anyone, regardless of thier denomination, or race! Maybe you should think of doing the same.

DO NOT TELL ME, WHO AND WHO IS NOT LYING TO ME!! YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR MY FRIENDS! HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I'M BEING STEREOTYPICAL WHEN I TRY TO FIND THE GOOD IN PEOPLE. YOU ARE A NEGATIVE, WORTHLESS PIECE OF SCUM! DON'T EVER TELL ME HOW I SHOULD FEEL, OR WHO I SHOULD TRUST! YOU DON'T KNOW ME OR MY FRIEND! JUST LEARN TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, AND DON'T EVER AGAIN SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ONE OF MY FRIENDS. YOU HAVE CROSSED THE LINE BOB, SO JUST BACK OFF NOW!!

Jen,
An avid muslim, like an
avid nazi, is dangerous.
Sort of like a hand grenade
waiting for a reason to
pull out the pin.
There were many delightful,
apparently reasonable, art
and culture loving nazis,
moderate people who
accepted much but not all,
of the nazi ideology,
or religion. Without them
the nazis could not have
taken over europe.
You must be young to be
so horribly dangerously
naive, or ignorant of
all history, particularly
muslim.
mohomed aka the prophet
was the hitler of his day,
but cleverer; instead of
killing all those he defined
as enemies - jews, christians,
zoroastrians, pagans, -
he killed some and forced
others either to join his
killing machine or support
it financially.
His mish mash of
'teachings' are poison.
The sharia is poison.
Your friend, who is an
avid but moderate, muslim,
whatever that means, is
a bomb, and grenade.
Wait until he has major
disappointment in his life,
fails in the eyes of his
wife or family, becomes
despondent; the way to
grace in the muslim ideology
is to die killing you or me,
more likely you because he
doesn't know me.

Jen,
Bob Owens' info is correct.
You are the blind one.
As for your childish
diatribe .......
And Mentat was doing
no more than that popular
tune some years back re
god talking about how
the christians and jews
kept loving him ( her ?)
despite all the nasty
things he did to them.
It is called irony Jen,
handle it.

OK THEN, IF ALL MUSLIM'S ARE BAD THEN SO ARE ALL CHRISTIANS. IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IF YOUR NOT CHRISTIAN AND IF YOU DON'T REPENT FOR YOUR SINS, YOUR GOING TO BURN FOREVER IN A DARK DEMENTED PIT OF FLAMES. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. SO WOULDN'T THAT MAKE ALL CHRISTIANS A TICKING TIME BOMB? IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY RELIGION SAYS CONVERT OR DIE. SO THEN ALL DENOMINATIONS SHOULD BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH! AND IF YOU SAY THAT'S NOT TRUE THEN YOUR EITHER LYING TO YOURSELF OR YOUR A JUST A HYPOCRITE.

LIKE I SAID ERALIER NOT EVERYONE IS BAD, STOP BEING BLINDED BY THIS WAR!

All of you are just stubborn, you refuse to see that not all people are bad. And if thats the case and it's so easy for you to tell someone that thier god hates them then I guess you won't mind me saying, God hates all of you, he's going to let all the Muslim's rise up against you and kill you all! And make you poor and miserable. God made a mistake, God hates you and wants to destroy America!

It doesn't make any sense that you can tell someone thier wrong for thier religion when in all actuality, the bible/the Koran were written by men. Take the King James version of the bible, who's not to say that the Catholics in Europe wrote that in order to keep the people in line. And the Koran was more than likely written by a person who was angry and wanted to get back at anyone by telling thier people convert or be killed?

Terrible things have been done in the name of
all religions.
Christians and Jews have adjusted their
understandings of religious doctrine,
Catholics, for eg, have publicly
changed their attitude to Jews, with
apologies for the damage done by previous
misunderstandings and actions.
Muslims cannot so change because mohommed
himself was a hitler, not a christ.

To be devout or avid in following any religion, is to follow its teachings as close as possible.

For a devout Catholic that means going to mass. For many Protestant Christians, that means no dancing or drinking. The actual specifics vary, but all that follow a religion devoutly have one thing in common: they follow the tenets of their faith very closely.

These tenets are written in Holy Books, which each religion believes is the Word of God, brought to Earth.

All monotheistic religions are not the same. Only one directly advocates that followers use violence as a means to spread the faith. Only one specifically encourages followers to lie and distort the truth to spread the message. This religion is Islam.

Your friend is one of two things, by Islam’s own definitions and practices. He is either not the avid Muslim that you claim he is, or he is a practicing Muslim, which also means he is required by his religion to lie about it.

You say he does not believe everything in the Qu’ran. You say he is an avid Muslim. He cannot be both.

I hope one day that you get the chance to read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Qu’ran and other religious books to give you a strong foundation for your arguments. Unfortunately, your current lack of knowledge of these books on even a literary level is showing a gaping void in your understanding of both Christianity and Islam.

Christianity has been spread by the overzealous by use of the sword. That historical fact has never been in doubt. But the Christian book preaches against violence except as a last resort, and for tolerance of the others. Christian ministers do not advocate the suicide bombings of innocents and warfare against those who have differing beliefs.

Islam is a militant religion that started a war of oppression against other religions in 627 AD when Mohammed killed over 600 Jewish men and sold their women and children into slavery. This war has never stopped.

The Qu’ran is a battle manual, a plan for world domination, and a religious tome all in one.

As I mentioned before, not all individual Muslims are evil people. But they do follow a dangerous, threatening religion that wants to subjugate the rest of the world.

I and others are here to try and help people understand this.

If you don’t want to learn from us, feel free to go elsewhere to find a point of view more in line with your own. We are not forcing you to stay.

Jen,
Okay, as a CHRISTIAN, yes if you do not repent for your sins, accept Jesus Christ as your one and only saviour then yes, you will burn in hell. But they way you die is not of God's hand. We also do not teach that you must hate Jews as the Qu'ran states. Also, in order to sit there and make assumptions about a religion you know nothing about, I would respectfully ask you not to attack my faith and say falsehoods. There are many Christians who can and do quote the bible chapter and verse and there are those who do not BUT that does not make them any less a Christian than a Muslim who does not quote the Qu'ran. Not all religions say convert or die except for Islam. Christians believe that when you die you will perish for your sins, NOT that we will take a knife and cut your head off because you do not believe in Jesus. Meanwhile, it is even stated in the Qu'ran to convert all those and do what is necessary. The bible does not say anything even close to that. Jesus teaches love, respect, and yes, tolerance of others and their beliefs. You need to read more articles here on this site, there are RADICAL MUSLIMS who in the name of Islam ALLAH kill those who will not covert and then boast about it. Also, on 9/11 there were several Arabs who were overjoyed at the attacks and they live right here in the US.....I saw with my own eyes and so did several of my friends now does that mean we need to sit by and allow these people who come into our country and clap their dirty hands at the murder of thousands? Where is the good in these people? If you cannot live here in peace and not teach hate to your children, I don't care what color you are, what faith you are, you do not belong here, plain and simple. Now I also have Muslim friends who have stated something similar to what you're friend said to you but you know what, I too have been "attacked" on here telling me to not trust my friends for under Islam they will turn and support their faith but I really don't care what others say and I do not sit there and attack them back on here. There are those Muslims that post here that are overjoyed when they see us Americans attacking one another and it plays right into their hands. I am not new to this site at all but have gone away due to family problems, and when you look at Islam and the Qu'ran, you get to understand why so many of us will fight for our freedoms and will not be converted. I do believe your friend is sincere as so are mine, mine were crying when we watched images from 9/11 and got very angry when they learned it was believers of Islam who murder all these people under Bin Laden and I too have been told they do not take word for word what they read in the Qu'ran and it does teach hate and violence and they choose not to follow that but, all that being said, I also have 2 Muslims that converted to Christianity because they wanted to, they saw their faith as wrong and no longer wanted to belong to something so evil, biased and full of nothing but hate. No one is perfect, and not everyone is good, you stated that you try to see the good in all people and I can agree with you but, there are those that are just no good, Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, Bin Laden and I can name more there is no good in those people. What about murderers, rapists what makes them good? Certainly not the crimes they committed. There are simply those that have no good in them and as I've stated, I don't care what color, faith they are. Jen, I do hope you can understand that I am not sitting here trying to judge you or attack you in anyway, you can believe and say what you wish along with everyone else that is the freedom we have in this country but please understand one thing, for those who choose to sit and attack others for whatever reasons, will be overlooked and totally ignored. I've seen it happen many times. That being said best of luck to you.

I actually know alot about the christian faith, being I was brought up a Catholic and went to a Catholic school, so don't tell me I don't know anything about it. And no where in the Koran does it say to cut off someones head with a knife. Stop making false statements to better your opinion. Just because you refuse to see any good in anyone does not make all Muslim's bad.

Before you judge anyone you should take a look at your own self, Oh wait doesn't your BIBLE tell you that??

And just because SOME Muslim's were overjoyed at the 9/11 attack does not mean that all of them were, and if you had read my earlier statements you would have seen that. I am standing up and fighting for those who are being attacked and placed under false pretences by people who refuse to see them for what the really are. And what I've noticed about this site is that your all a bunch of sheltered White Anglo Saxon Americans who just anyone who is different from you. And I realise that by saying this it will more than likely fall upon deaf ears. But it's high time you people started to realise that not everything you think is right and just is. Referring to a race as animalistic, cruel, and barbaric is wrong. And most of that represents Americans.

You know what, whatever you are RIGHT and everyone else is totally wrong because we refuse to allow those who want to do only harm to us. First off, I never stated the Qu'ran has any verse to cutting someone's head off, I was referring to those Muslims who cut Nick Berg's head off in the almighty name of Allah as it was stated in their video. The Qu'ran does teach, I've read it thank you, that all nonMuslims must convert and it is the DUTY of every Muslim to convert them by ANY means necessary. And let's not forget about those hijackers in the name of Allah killing thousands on 9/11. I never stated anywhere that I won't see the good in anyone, you are putting words in my mouth and I will not stand for that. AGAIN, I can agree with you on that but not all people are good. If you cannot see that oh well. There is not good in ALL people I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE NOTHING BUT EVIL. And yes my BIBLE does teach me not to judge anyone. But, hello am I nun? NO and the fact taht I say things means that I am human. I too went to catholic school and a private christian prep school and religion was a part of my day, everyday but that doesn't mean that I am a wonderful Christian anymore than you practice the faith you were a part of many years ago. What I do is my business just as it is your business and I never sat there and said I was the perfect Christian. I had family members and friends killed on 9/11 by those kind Muslims in the name of their God. AGAIN, you see the good in all people fine and AGAIN because I do not does not make me a hater of all people. I cannot see good in those who are evil and have proven to be just that.

Oh and of course those who are ex Muslims and post here that hate everyone too, right? You may want to stand up for those who are hated and again, I love how you put words in my mouth that I hate these people. I guess you're not American since you say "Referring to a race as animalistic, cruel, and barbaric is wrong. And most of that represents Americans." And you're right you're speaking to deaf ears so I will say goodbye to you and best of luck.

Jen:

I am standing up and fighting for those who are being attacked and placed under false pretences by people who refuse to see them for what the really are.

Actually, we're among the relatively few people in the West who DO "see them for what the(y) really are."

Unfortunately, you're a typical product of the late 20th century American public school system, more concerned with "feelings" than facts, too worried about offending others to see what's happening right in front of your face.

Guess what? When you have a machete to your throat, like those Westerners who were slaughtered in Saudi Arabia last week did, nobody's going to ask you if you're open-minded, or believe that "most" Muslims are "good people at heart."

They're going to ask if you're a Muslim or not. And then they're going to separate your empty little head from your body (although they'll probably take their time gang-raping you first).

Sorry if that offended you, but it's the absolute truth.

And what I've noticed about this site is that your all a bunch of sheltered White Anglo Saxon Americans who just anyone who is different from you.

It's probably never occurred to you, but you have absolutely no idea what the background of anyone else on this site is. Just because "sheltered White Anglo Saxon American" describes you, don't assume that it does us.

Jen~ 'All of you...'

That seems to include Me. :( I don't recall being Too harsh with you upon first arrival...

Jen, I realize there are some people in the world who are going to react rather virulently to each other. There is NO helping that.

I suspect one could not put all of us who post here into the same ballroom at a conference. The place would Spontaneously Combust.

Jen, just wondering why you post here? You don't really seem to have any facts or intelligent things to say that back up your opinion. Mostly, you just seem to enjoy taking what people say out of context and ignoring them when they make a valid point. You're obviously not going to change anyone's mind here, since you can't back up a word you say... so why waste your breath?

And in reference to... "OK THEN, IF ALL MUSLIM'S ARE BAD THEN SO ARE ALL CHRISTIANS. IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION IF YOUR NOT CHRISTIAN AND IF YOU DON'T REPENT FOR YOUR SINS, YOUR GOING TO BURN FOREVER IN A DARK DEMENTED PIT OF FLAMES. PLAIN AND SIMPLE."

I'm quite confused about how you come to this conclusion... There is a big difference between a religion saying those who don't believe will go to hell... and a religion that says if people don't believe, it's your job to send them there by way of murder... Hopefully you do understand that, and are just choosing to ignore it. I'd hate to think anyone would be so thick that they wouldn't see the difference.

People are neither fundamentally good or evil... they are what the world makes of them and, ultimately, what they make of themselves.

You, yourself, come off sounding just as hateful, close minded and "sheltered" as anyone else.

Ahhh, and they wonder why I don't get along with people my own age...

Jen,

I for one, may very well be a one-legged college professor from Basra, educated at Oxford;

or a retired actress in the south of France;

or an award-winning National Geographic photographer from Hokkaido.

But that doesn’t matter. It just illustrates a point.

As pretty much everyone mentioned above, and I alluded to on the “test” thread, you have very limited knowledge of the world outside your walls, and a “feelings first” outlook on life.

I don’t know whether this is because of inadequate schooling, or because of a sheltered existence. Whatever is responsible for your ignorance, we are trying to help educate you on a specific group of topics relating to the spread of Islamic Jihad. We are here to educate you, if you wish to be educated.

So what you have in front of you is a profound, yet simple choice:

Option A
You can continue to feel that you are correct in all of your views, and that the vast majority of people who post on this board, despite having much more background in the issues than you, are wrong.

Pro:This option would allow your worldview to maintain its equilibrium, and for you to continue to be blissfully unaware of the battle raging around you.

Con: If you continue to post here without learning anything, while arguing with virtually everyone, I will not be the only one thinking you were a decimal point off when you mentioned your GPA.

Option B
You can try to learn something. Believe it or not, I’d like to help you if you would let me. I’m sure a lot of the others feel the same way. After all, that is while we’re here. But you’d have to lose that big chip on your shoulder, and you’d have to open your eyes to a world that is not nearly as safe and stable as you think it is.

Pro: You might learn something about people, and world religions, and why we are currently in a cultural war. You might learn something you can pass on to others. You might learn critical thinking skills that you can use to find a better job one day.

Con: You’d lose a lot of your illusions. That can be a very, very scary thing for someone who has obviously led a sheltered life.

Don’t respond now, but think about it over the weekend. If you want to learn we’ll be happy to share what we know.

If you don’t, you can always go back to watching Passions.

I never said I was correct in all of my views, but I never said you were right. I also never started spreading hate. I wrote what I wrote about God hating you because of someones post telling a Muslim that God hated them. I don't need you people with your one sided views and hatred toward anything different. You don't know me or anything about me. Just like I don't know you or anything about you. So for you to say I'm close minded and oblivious to everything outside my own walls is very rude and stupid on your part. I'm sick and freaking tired of all the prejudice being spread around this thread, and the things you say do have effects on other people than yourselves. So if you choose not to listen to me, thats your problem. But then why should I listen to you. I refuse to be "educated" by a group of ill-minded, full of themselves, racists who just feel like America is a huge power and will always succeed. Well you know what, every power at one time or another makes mistakes and will be eventually brought down. I have not led a sheltered life, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME! And how am I to learn from someone who shares completely different views than me. I am not saying at all that you are a bad person, or a wrong person, you just tend to let your "education" get the best of you with out using FEELINGS also. Show some compassion for your fellow man. It's not such a bad thing to try and see good in people. Regardless or what you've learned about thier religion. And I fear that by you not letting yourself see this good, you will pass up the opportunity of meeting people who could change your life forever, because they are Muslim, or some other religion you don't agree with.

At least I try and stick up for people who are being undertroden, and looked down upon, and who aren't even given a chance because of the color of thier skin, or thier religion.

“And how am I to learn from someone who shares completely different views than me.”

Oh, my God.

You really believe that, don’t you?

Poor, sweet, delusional girl, that is the only way you can learn.

Jen
This is not about whos God is better except in the eyes of the mulsums!! and they want to kill you and if they do it is you who will die that is What America is doing so you have the right to worship who you want or not we don't care what you worship or not' We Know we as Americans do not want to live under the terrorist!!! Get it !!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with Her give them Strenght and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

9:00 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Speaker, Mr. President Pro Tempore, members of Congress, and fellow Americans:
In the normal course of events, Presidents come to this chamber to report on the state of the Union. Tonight, no such report is needed. It has already been delivered by the American people.
We have seen it in the courage of passengers, who rushed terrorists to save others on the ground -- passengers like an exceptional man named Todd Beamer. And would you please help me to welcome his wife, Lisa Beamer, here tonight. (Applause.)
We have seen the state of our Union in the endurance of rescuers, working past exhaustion. We have seen the unfurling of flags, the lighting of candles, the giving of blood, the saying of prayers -- in English, Hebrew, and Arabic. We have seen the decency of a loving and giving people who have made the grief of strangers their own.
My fellow citizens, for the last nine days, the entire world has seen for itself the state of our Union -- and it is strong. (Applause.)
Tonight we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done. (Applause.)
I thank the Congress for its leadership at such an important time. All of America was touched on the evening of the tragedy to see Republicans and Democrats joined together on the steps of this Capitol, singing "God Bless America." And you did more than sing; you acted, by delivering $40 billion to rebuild our communities and meet the needs of our military.
Speaker Hastert, Minority Leader Gephardt, Majority Leader Daschle and Senator Lott, I thank you for your friendship, for your leadership and for your service to our country. (Applause.)
And on behalf of the American people, I thank the world for its outpouring of support. America will never forget the sounds of our National Anthem playing at Buckingham Palace, on the streets of Paris, and at Berlin's Brandenburg Gate.
We will not forget South Korean children gathering to pray outside our embassy in Seoul, or the prayers of sympathy offered at a mosque in Cairo. We will not forget moments of silence and days of mourning in Australia and Africa and Latin America.
Nor will we forget the citizens of 80 other nations who died with our own: dozens of Pakistanis; more than 130 Israelis; more than 250 citizens of India; men and women from El Salvador, Iran, Mexico and Japan; and hundreds of British citizens. America has no truer friend than Great Britain. (Applause.) Once again, we are joined together in a great cause -- so honored the British Prime Minister has crossed an ocean to show his unity of purpose with America. Thank you for coming, friend. (Applause.)
On September the 11th, enemies of freedom committed an act of war against our country. Americans have known wars -- but for the past 136 years, they have been wars on foreign soil, except for one Sunday in 1941. Americans have known the casualties of war -- but not at the center of a great city on a peaceful morning. Americans have known surprise attacks -- but never before on thousands of civilians. All of this was brought upon us in a single day -- and night fell on a different world, a world where freedom itself is under attack.
Americans have many questions tonight. Americans are asking: Who attacked our country? The evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al Qaeda. They are the same murderers indicted for bombing American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and responsible for bombing the USS Cole.
Al Qaeda is to terror what the mafia is to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world -- and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere.
The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children.
This group and its leader -- a person named Osama bin Laden -- are linked to many other organizations in different countries, including the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. There are thousands of these terrorists in more than 60 countries. They are recruited from their own nations and neighborhoods and brought to camps in places like Afghanistan, where they are trained in the tactics of terror. They are sent back to their homes or sent to hide in countries around the world to plot evil and destruction.
The leadership of al Qaeda has great influence in Afghanistan and supports the Taliban regime in controlling most of that country. In Afghanistan, we see al Qaeda's vision for the world.
Afghanistan's people have been brutalized -- many are starving and many have fled. Women are not allowed to attend school. You can be jailed for owning a television. Religion can be practiced only as their leaders dictate. A man can be jailed in Afghanistan if his beard is not long enough.
The United States respects the people of Afghanistan -- after all, we are currently its largest source of humanitarian aid -- but we condemn the Taliban regime. (Applause.) It is not only repressing its own people, it is threatening people everywhere by sponsoring and sheltering and supplying terrorists. By aiding and abetting murder, the Taliban regime is committing murder.
And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. (Applause.) Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. (Applause.) Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating.
These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. (Applause.) The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.
I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. (Applause.) The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. (Applause.)
Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. (Applause.)

Jen Read this ! so you can remember that day sence you didn't see Berg get his head cut off by these monsters and it does say in the Qu-ran to cut off the heads of the non-belivers and go ahead and marry that arab and end up in the dessart in a burka cuse he wants to raise the child in his home land !
There are many storys where women can't get their kids back and the State Department can do nothing for you Be for warned!!

You can pick a qu-ran in any book story You might want to read it!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight wiyh her give them strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Jen:

I refuse to be "educated" by a group of ill-minded, full of themselves, racists who just feel like America is a huge power and will always succeed.

"Racists"? Could you tell us just what "race" Muslims happen to be?

Actually, you simply refuse to be educated by a group of people who know more than you do about a particular subject.

Is that how you approach your college courses, as well? I suppose that would explain your claimed GPA...

It's not such a bad thing to try and see good in people. Regardless or what you've learned about thier religion.

Personally, I'm not that interested in seeing the "good" in the whack-job who hacked Nick Berg's head off while screaming "Alahu akbar!"

He may be a perfectly nice guy. He may even help old ladies cross the street.

But I really don't care. If I run across him, only one of us will survive the encounter.

Sorry if that upsets you, but it's what I get paid to do (killing worthless scumbags, not upsetting ignorant midwestern college girls).

At least I try and stick up for people who are being undertroden, and looked down upon, and who aren't even given a chance because of the color of thier skin, or thier religion.

Who, exactly, is it that you see as being "undertrodden" in the worldwide Jihad? I certainly hope you aren't naive enough to buy into the propaganda the Islamists put out about all their problems being caused by us.

Even THEY don't believe that nonsense. That's just what they tell the ignorant masses to keep them strapping on the suicide vests.

“And how am I to learn from someone who shares completely different views than me.”

Jen... I really do mean this in a nice way. You need to think about that statement... long and hard. Listening to people with different view points and ideas is the ONLY way anyone learns anything...

No, it's not bad to look for the good in people. But is *is* bad, and dangerous, to deceive yourself and imagine good where there isn't. There are lots of good people out there, but there are also bad. To tell yourself that everyone is good, and not prepare yourself for the bad, will hurt you in the long run. It would be like saying to yourself, "Well, I don't need to lock my door, because everyone is good, so no one is going to break in and rape or rob me."

Fundamentalists in anything... religion or otherwise... can be dangerous. Islamic fundamentalists are more of a threat because the Koran does advocate violence.

We live in a society where speaking out about something... unless it's Christians or Jews or white males... makes you a racist... which is not true. I think you need to consider that. While I think Mentat may have worded what he said strongly, he was trying to make a point with it. These wackos with their AK 47's and bomb belts go on about Allah favoring them... if their Allah did favor them and hate us so, as they claim, we really wouldn't be here. It is a conceited and detestable viewpoint, IMO. It's NOT a viewpoint that most other religions share. Christianity teaches that God loves *everybody*.

This site is a site about Jihad and fundamentalist Islam, so that is what is talked about here. I don't see people here who have a blanket hate for Muslims... I see people who hate evil... and that is what the fundamentalist Islamic movement is. Fundamentalists are never a good thing... but at least most other fundamentalists don't run around and kill people, they just mouth off and act like idiots.

This relatively new movement of "love" and tolerance disturbs me, because it is a fundamentalist movement itself. People act as though you must refrain from any opinions or thoughts on a subject... so they close their minds to the facts and opinions and thoughts from other people. Many of the people I know who wave the banner of open-mindedness are some of the most close minded people I know. If someone won't listen to and consider what other's have to say, then that person is truly a fool. They don't have to agree, but if they won't at least listen and *truly* think about it, then they can't hide behind that open-minded banner, because it's a lie.

Having thoughts and opinions against something is NOT hate. Everyone is entitled to disagree, and to speak up about it. If we are such an open-minded society, that *should* be the norm...

PleasantOne reminds me of someone I know. :)

Lobo,
Jen thinks we are all full of shit because we refuse to be lied to and cannot see good in all people. We're rude, and evil, doesn't that sound like half of Americans who are tired of taking shit day after day and willing to stand up and say no? I do feel sorry for her, she is attacking the wrong people and keeps insisinting of all this great hate that we all feel for Muslims and gee, I don't recall any of us really saying we hated them. I do HATE RADICAL Muslims, you know, those who go around killing innocents for no reason, those who follow Bin Laden need to be shot but I guess Jen would say that I'm being evil and not seeing the good in Bin Laden. Then again, hell, I don't see good in anyone who does an evil act whether they are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Catholic, it doesn't matter, if you can do evil in the name of your God than there is no good in you. Where's the good in Charles Manson, Timothy McVeigh, Saddam, Jeffrey Dahmer......etc. just to name a few. I see no good in these people but I've been told several times, that I'm wrong. I have nothing against her wanting to help others who are being falsely accused of something and attacked, but those who want to do only harm to us Americans do not deserve anyting but death.

I'm getting a little tired of being called a "racist" (still trying to figure out when Islam became a race, though), or having people imply that I think all Muslims should be killed, etc.

They can worship Mickey Mouse, for all I care. As long as they don't try to force ME to join their group, or try to make me live under their laws, I don't really care WHAT they do.

Unfortunately, quite a number of Muslims ARE trying to do just that.

The problem is that Jen (and a few hundred million other Americans) believes that there's some finite little group of "bad Muslims" out there who are causing all the problems, and that we just have to find them and put them in jail or something, and then everything will be fine.

Eventually, enough people will come to their senses that we'll be able to do something to try and stop them. I just hope it happens sooner, rather than later.

lobo,

You WILL become a Mousketeer, and you WILL wear the ears! What's more, you will build a Pirates of the Carribean in Mecca! So it is written, so it shall be done!

"You grandchildren will nibble cheese."

...or they will call you a "mousist," as well. ;-)

Hey, after that disturbing peak into what our schools are turnig out these days, I figure we could all use a chuckle...

What's more, you will build a Pirates of the Carribean in Mecca!

That would be pretty difficult to do, given the scarcity of water in those parts.

I suppose they could fill it with liquor from the private stash of the oh-so-devoutly Muslim Saudi royal family...

Jen,

I dug this up from an old news clipping, and thought these words seemed fitting for the situation at hand...

"...your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds... whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge..."

--Francis P. Church
the New York Sun
Christmastime, 1897

lobo,

Building the ride wouldn't be difficult at all, once you remember that camels are "the ships of the desert."

It's damn hard to make them stand still while you drill the gun ports, however...

Re Lobo91s' comment about liquour from the
private stash of the saudi royal family,
it is a fact that the 3rd. biggest export
market in the world for cognac is saudi arabia.
More than enough for the Pirates of the
Caribbean in mecca.
As a further nonsequitor, when young
in England, the food at my school came
via a catering company called Mecca.
The phrase 'mecca muck' was used daily
by all.

"PleasantOne reminds me of someone I know. :)"

You don't say? ;)

Please let us not forget that the word "believe" has a lie in the middle of it.

Jen
If you lived in Nazi Germany, and some-one said that Nazi's were evil, would you say that you refused to believe it, and that you looked for the good in people?

Jen:

I suggest you follow the above suggestion and go to islamonline.net to the fatwa section and learn. Also, there IS a verse in the Qur'an about cutting off heads. Why don't you read the Qur'an also?

I take it that your "study" of Islam has been cruising this site and that you have not read Spencer or Ibn Warraq. Those would be a good start if you care to learn about what we're actually talking about here.

You can come here, ignorant of the entire basis of what we are talking about, without any research or real attempt at self-education on your part, and have temper tantrums on matters about which you are ill-informed, but you will not be taken seriously. You can hardly complain about that since you have shown yourself to be quick to judge and criticize without doing your own homework first.

Bob Owens:

REMARKABLE self-restraint. My admiration grows.

lobo91, PleasantOne:

Please, WHO is PleasantOne? E-mail me with the answer.

Jen, your muslim friend is a lier, and you better wake up.

Jen, you said this:
Just because the Koran tells them to kill non-muslims, or to turn them or kill them, does not mean that all follow that seriously.

Jen, you better wake up. :-) islam and the koran isn't worth defending!

scotty

Lobo,
I don't understand why we are being called racist either. I don't particularly like that very much since I do have friends of all race, black, chinese, latino, middle eastern. The problem is, Jen is believing what her friend says 100% and is attacking those of us who know better. Now, I have stated several times that I myself have Muslim friends and these people would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, or would give me money if my daughter needed something that for whatever reason I could not provide for her but that still doesn't mean that when push comes to shove, these same friends will not stand by me when they are called to convert me. I'd like to believe they would but I know better. Those who have converted to Christianity have even stated on numerous occassions that in the end, all Muslims will have to turn on NonMuslims or face the wrath of Allah and their fellow Muslim and I have been told about Sharia Law as well. The bottom line, and it does break my heart to say this, those people who are so dear to me and my family will one day want me dead in the name of Islam and those who converted through my church have confirmed it. I don't treat these people any differently but my eyes and ears are very much open at all times. They too shake their heads in total disgust at Bin Laden and his people, were in tears on 9/11, went to the funeral for my family members and friends who were killed that day, and said that was not what a Muslim is supposed to do. But in the end, I do know the truth and will continue to fight in the name of Jesus Christ and grow closer to Him everyday and hope that my life will have an impact on those friends who will see the true light as others have. I do feel sorry for Jen. I know how it feels to be on the other side and she is more than likely thinking we are all attacking her and ganging up on her since we havent' heard from her lately, I can only pray that Jen is safe and doing more research to see the truth.

Oh and again I state, I don't hate all Muslims and I don't wish them dead. I do wish that if those people who live in the US continue to want to see us dead LEAVE! Go back to your country because there is no need to have you here to wish us harm when we live in a country that believes in freedom and liberty and you do not.

Annie:
Insightful and valued post. Thanks.

God hates our great country, hyuk hyuk. I saw Jesus burning a flag just down the road from my trailer. Or it might have been a hobo, I'm so inbred from being orn in the Southern States that I can barely see. Hyuk hyukkity hyuk. Fuck America!!!

You have serious problems if you can sit there and say all that crap about America.

Annie,

Don't feed the trolls

you all need to stop telling JEn what to do. im sure she has a mind of her own and knows what to think of things. if she is defending islam none of you have a right to tell her what she is defending is wrong. cuz im sure youll find out in the end who is right and whose wrong...