Hasn't the Iranian economy been in a shambles since the Islamic revolution?Weren't the leaders in Iran so inept and incompetent that they required help from the US after the recent earthquake in Iran?Isn't it true that despite oil "wealth" Iran did not possess the equipment to dig victims out of the rubble after the earthquake? Didn't many die in that earthquake because of shoddy construction practices and lack building codes that are allowed in Iran? A situation that is not tolerated in the US or in other "liberal democracies"?I can't help but laugh whenever I hear about the so-called superiority of an Islamic society.

Obviously not a battle between good and evil, but a battle between the smart and the braindead.

A need to establish Khomeini's legacy? Does that include sodomizing baby girls and farm animals? Yeah, that ought to wipe out "human torment and suffering".

There is definitely some sort of brain wasting disease that Islamics suffer from. Scientists should study it. And soon.

About Khomeini, from Iranian ex-Muslims:

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352748&TOCID=2083225413

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed."

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Iran/KhomeiniSpeech.htm

Why do you only read the Quranic verses of mercy and do not read the verses of killing? Quran says; kill, imprison! Why are you only clinging to the part that talks about mercy? Mercy is against God.

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137353414

Muslim Women and Olympic Games

Sorry but this has nothing to do with the above article , but this is one of the most recent posts and there are people online here at the moment. I'd like to know if there are any websites out there especially for ex-muslims, I'm really intrigued by what they'd have to say on some of the subjects raised on these humble pages.

I don't know ALL the websites by ex-Muslims, but here are some of them:

http://www.secularislam.org/

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

http://www.middleastwomen.org/

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

http://www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/

http://www.mukto-mona.com/

http://www.homa.org/

http://www.ladeeni.net/english.htm

http://www.muslimsandislamic.faithweb.com/

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/anwarshaikh/articles.html

http://www.noniedarwish.com/

http://www.webspawner.com/users/hfali1/

www.geocities.com/murtad_malaysia/

http://exmuslim.com/

http://www.geocities.com/happy_kafir

http://www.geocities.com/ibn_rushd2

Here was a book on that topic recently recommended here, although I have forgotten who posted it. I found a copy in my local library system and have it on hold. You might have similar good luck:

Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out, by Ibn Warraq

Foehammer: That is indeed a highly recommended book. A MUST for all anti-Jihadis world wide:

http://www.secularislam.org/testimonies/index.htm

June 10, 2004

Missile engines found in Lebanon they came from Iraq? And one found in the Netherlands seams they are moving this stuff as scrap? Fox And Friends this moring!

What else has left this country?

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Right-wing Christian nuts and Islamists aren't the same.

While I loathe both, how many of these right-wingers have carried out terrorist attacks justified by God?

Well this should come as no Surprise.
Democracy, freedom of the Individual are all man made laws and a blasphemy to Islam.
That is why no Muslim can honestly swear allegiance to America.
Superpower violence is the root of terrorism only because the murderous acts must be justified as defensive under islam.
This is the usual stuff.

"A clash of civilizations" implies a number of various "civilizations" each clashing with others. This notion was publicized by Samuel Huntington -- the notion that there are the Western, and the Islamic, and the Sinic, and the...--in other words, 4-5 different "civilisations" clashing.

But that is false. There is only one real, world-wide clash. And that is the clash between the belief-system of Islam, and everyone else. Whatever competition may arise from a newly-powerful, or even aggressive China, for example, that will not be because "Sinic" civilizaton and "Western" civilization are clashing, but because China and, for example, the United States, are big-power rivals, as were Germany and Great Britain before World War I.

The phrase "clash of civilisations" actually obscures, rather than helps to emphasize, that it is not Muslim "civilisation" (or within Islam, its various constituents are, as Muslims and such apologists as the late Edward Said keep telling us, "not a monolith."

Therefore one might be wary of using the phrase "clash of civilisations" -- it is, very subtly, a kind of apologetics for Islam the belief-system.

(Addendum: Huntington gave insufficient credit (to the late Adda Bozeman, of Sarah Lawrence, who wrote frequently in her last years a number of studies emphasizing the role of "culture" in world politics, with particular attention paid to Islam as an unappeasable aggressive force. , and just beginning to outline the full extent of its history of aggression. See her "Politics and Culture in International History", "The Future of Law in a Multicultural World," and especially, "Strategic Intelligence in Statecraft." Start giving Bozeman her due.

And perhaps -- a little less use of that misleading phrase "a clash of civilizations." For after all, it is those who within our own civilization (who may share our ways of dress, food, music, and so on, at least for a while) who, because they are guided by, or "revert to," the belief-system of Islam, that they, wherever they live, in Quetta or in Union City, New Jersey, in Portland, Oregon or Peshaware, pose a real problem, an ungoawayable problem, for all non-Muslims.

Morning all.
As our wedding approaches it gets more difficult to even get in here to read. And my posting usually add very little anyway.

However! In passing I shall leave a link for any who want to see a bit more of the history of radical islam- and its ties to Nazi Germany.

Enjoy!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/816232/posts

Keith~ wrong again. They hate US as well, because of the kind of people YOU support. They lump us all together. They see no difference.

Vote for Kerry, Keith, make their day.

The Future of Law in a Multicultural World,"

Who cares I say get the MOABs ready! This is be killed or kill and the USA has stood up to the the evil before as we are today ! the ? is who is with us? We know the French will run away!!as they have always done!
Funny the French today are telling NATO what to do . Last time I checked they were not members!

I would have loved to have seen T. Kenney running yesterday!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Islam and Khomeini are and were the ugliest disasters human kind can imagine. This Barbaric regime wants to take our country 1000 years back. We have a reach culture and Iran is not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I want the international community ask UK, France and Germany why these countries support the barbaric regime of mullahs. The BBC acts as the voice of Islam and propagates for mullahs unashamedly. I've asked the BBC the reasons for supporting monster mullahs but have never got an answer. Would you honest readers please write and ask the BBC the same question that I've asked many times without result.

As the investigations into the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by the U.S. military begins, Massachusetts senator John Kerry's lead over President George W. Bush drops 3 points (44 percent to 42 percent), according to a new Zogby America poll.

The poll of 950 likely voters was conducted Wednesday through Saturday (June 2-5, 2004). Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.2.

When Independent candidate Ralph Nader is added, Kerry and Bush's percentages are virtually unchanged. Kerry holds on to the same lead, 44 percent to 42 percent, with Ralph Nader at 3 percent.

Support for President Bush's job performance rose 4 points this month, to 46 percent, yet more than half of respondents (54 percent) still say that they disapprove of his performance.

The president's rise comes nearly one month after he reached his lowest approval point - 42 percent.

Half of those polled feel the country is on the wrong track (50 percent), while 44 percent feel the U.S. is on the right track.

When asked if President Bush "deserves to be re-elected", 42.5 percent of likely voters (statistically tied with last month) responded positively, while the majority (53.1 percent) say that it is "time for someone new."
news max.com
Tuesday, June 8, 2004 4:03 p.m. EDT
Zogby: Kerry's Lead Shrinking

This is funny 950 people polled and how many were dem.s this looks real bad for Kerry!!
This is why Iran is up in arms they Know that the Press is wrong!
Like they were wrong about President Reagan! We the American People love our Fredom and Strength and Courage!! We don't care about the French!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

I apologize for one mistake. The correct word is "rich".

A challenge to KeithJoy~

Post links to articles by liberal thinkers. Articles that Do NOT blame the US or western thinking for radical islam. Articles that Admit that islam is the source of the problem and not us. Articles that don't go into conspiracy theories about how we are behind all the problems now coming at us from islam.

Thank you.

We have a reach culture and Iran is not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I want the international community ask UK, France and Germany why these countries support the barbaric regime of mullahs. The BBC acts as the voice of Islam and propagates for mullahs unashamedly. I've asked the BBC the reasons for supporting monster mullahs but have never got an answer. Would you honest readers please write and ask the BBC the same question that I've asked many times without result.

Posted by B. A.-Iran at June 10, 2004 08:55 AM

You ask about the BBC well the Answer is the top ex. Children have converted to mulsums and they are afraid to sleep at night for fear they will have their Throats Cut! We have seen the Video of the terrorist cut a mans head off and some Brits have no courage!

We in the USA support the Youth of Iran who want to throw off this slavory that is on you!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

PS Victory is Freedom.
Freedom is never Free! You will always have to Fight for it and Fight to Keep it!

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why I'm a neoconservative simply for not choosing to hump magnolias and sing Kumbyah while a dove flies out of my butt like KJ and his ilk...

meanwhile...

B.A. is dead-on accurate. The vast majority of Iranians would love a shot at democracy, but don't have the resources or organization to force the issue right now. While it is hard to see at times, the Iranians are NOT Arabs, they are Persians, and they would like to reclaim their culture, which, unlike Arabs, has actually contributed to medicine, science, and the humanities.

Once we're done wit the Baathists, maybe we should get a bit moe active in helping the Persians regain their country.

Best of luck, B.A.

I notice you could not even answer my challenge, KJ. Mahmoud et al Smile every time you post.

And I notice the word 'free' in freeper, whatever the Hell that is. Free, at least, is something we Still Will Be after another 4 years of Bush.

"Obviously not a battle between good and evil, but a battle between the smart and the braindead."

yep.

All you have to do is Google Iranian Politics Club and see how Iranians REALLY feel about the so-called "liberating" Islamic theocracy of Iran.

"Wow... the mullahs and religious nuts of Iran hate liberals and liberalism? "

I don't know about the strange bedfellows part, I'm conservative. Separation of hurch and state is a conservative belief. Read the First Amendment.

Second, back to liberals in heavy support of Islam, when the 1979 revolution in Iran took place, the libs in America were busy denouncing the Shah for his "support of America." Did the liberals denounce Khomeini in any way? Nope. Please read "Why I am Not A Muslim" by Ibn Warraq for his account regarding this. While American Liberals are busy denouncing Christianit
y, they are very outspoken in giving Islam support.

Note: these are the same liberals who are in favor of homosexual rights.

You libs might want to educate yourselves about Islam and homosexuality.

Hypocrites.

Not only that, but Islam is directly opposed to everything Liberals stand for in the US. Whether it's free unbridled sex (dating is strictly forbidden), as is pre-marital sex and extra-marital sex in Islam, abortion is punishable by death, you can forget alcohol (they behead you in Saudi Arabia if you do drink it!) and you can clear forget about marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and other illegal drugs. All are punishable by death in Islam.

And, since Libs are supposed to be against the death penalty I very highly question their views on adamantly supporting a religion whih carries it out as if it's a normal everyday thing.

Once again, Libs, educate yourself about Islam.

Ignoramuses!

to B.A., I have written many times to the BBC to complain about their pro-Islamic and pro-Mullah propaganda to no avail. When Zahra Kazemi (Canadian-Iranian journalist) was murdered at Evin Prison last year I wrote to the BBC protesting because their story said merely that she "died while in custody." (She was beaten to death! a fact not mentioned by the BBC in the story.)

The BBC is quite simply one of our most formidable enemies. Their noses are firmly planted on the mullahs' backsides and it would take a very big crowbar to pry them lose.

Nevertheless, when the Iranian people are finally free of the Mullahs, and are putting them on trial for the murders they comitted for all the world to see, the BBC and all the other pro-Islam leftists media outlets will be shamed before the world. Just as much as they were when the Soviet Union fell and all the Eastern European members of the "workers paradise" made it plain how happy they were to be rid of it.

The Left is more often on the wrong side of history than not.

Keithjoy,

Why am I not surprised? You think over half this country is liberal?

Put down the bong, son.

People who self-define themselves as liberal make up about ten-percent of the population. That’s out of survey of 1,200+ on a politically neutral web site. Sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance.

Source: http://www.personalitypage.com/political_affil.html

Just so you understand me, I don’t hate liberals. I view them as a base form of entertainment. It’s a guilty amusement, kind of like going to a circus sideshow, or slowing down to look at a car wreck.

I also dislike, but do not hate, most “-ists” as you have probably surmised. Feminists are just one of the “-ists;” there are many.

I dislike “-ists” because they do not believe in equality. They want to segregate society, and try to champion the interests of one group as being more worthy of attention than another. I don’t care what race you are, what your religion is, what sex you are, or what your favorite food is. It shouldn’t matter. Unfortunately, thanks to liberals, people have been led to believe it does matter, and that’s a shame.

I hold all people should have the same opportunities and risks that come with living in America. I don’t support preferential treatment of any group, because that might cause resentment against them, which is also unfair. I know it is a radical idea for liberals, but I think people should have to pull their own weight, and stand or fall based upon the content of their character, and not because they are neatly organized into a politically viable demographic.

By the way, going back to those statistics I cited? Only six percent of Americans are conservative, so I doubt they are responsible for all the ills of the world, either.

Now on to the question and answer portion of the our day:

Is liberalism bad?

I don’t think liberalism is “bad,” but historically, it does encourage the welfare state and the societal laziness that comes with it. It wants a level playing field not by trying to build everyone up, but by tearing those who dare to excel down to the level of those who don’t dare to try.

Keithjoy, you are a prime example. Instead of building up the liberal viewpoint, you attack competing viewpoints, and try to bring the level of discourse down to your own.

Liberalism aspires to mediocrity.

You once asked me for advice on how to use bold and italics when posting to a thread. I told you that the information you needed could be found in any basic HTML tutorial on the web. Did you go out and learn? No. You wanted a handout.

You are a perfect example of your kind. I’ll let others make the judgment of whether that is good or bad.

Are the conservative religious mullahs of Iran bad?

I don’t think that conservatism is inherently any more evil than liberalism. It is a matter of extremism and degree. Most zealots are dangerous because they believe in something so hard that they can’t understand why anyone could have a competing viewpoint. In this case, I’d have to say these guys are pretty bad, but it is because they are extremists, not because they are conservative or liberal.

The other part of that equation you threw in was religion. I think the same rules apply. I have no problem with moderate religions; but extremists wish to impose their religion on others. I don’t like extremists, regardless of their particular ideology. It just so happens that Islam is a particularly extreme religion.

Bush wants to outlaw guns and provide free health care in Iraq. He also wants free public education with no religious involvement in Iraq. AND, he's paying for all of this with YOUR tax dollars and GI blood.

Portions of this question are erroneous, so let me address those corrections first. Bush does not want to outlaw personal firearms, such as rifles, shotguns or pistols. He does, however want to outlaw mortars, landmines, crew-served weapons, RPGs and military grade demolitions. As these are the freedoms enspoused in the Second Amendment of our country, I don’t have a problem with that.

If he can pull off free health care, that would be great! You just happen to be inaccurate on one detail: Iraqi oil pays for it in the long run, not John Q. Public. Nice attempt, though.

He wants children to have a free public education, with minimal religious involvement? Oh, the horror! Isn’t that what your friends in the ACLU have been trying to establish here in America for years? I thought you’d be happy with that...

Too sum up our rebuilding goals and efforts? Good.

“Its easy when truth and logic are on your side.”

I could not agree more.

Keithjoy, I thought you might want to readup on our "failures" in the reconstruction of Iraq.

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

source: http://www.imao.us

Keith~

And we are Still waiting for those links to liberal thinkers who actually Say Islam is a threat, and who do Not blame the US and/or Western civilization first.

I am beginning to hate all religion. Religion is just fascism as far as I am concerned. Christians also believe that "god's law" is superior to man-made laws. Well, give me man-made laws anytime of the week, as human beings have the right to make or unmake whatever laws they can. Man-made laws can change with the times, to suit the society in which people live. "God's law" keeps one chained to the past, so that one never gets to live in the present.

I am beginning to hate all religion. Religion is just fascism as far as I am concerned. Christians also believe that "god's law" is superior to man-made laws. Well, give me man-made laws anytime of the week, as human beings have the right to make or unmake whatever laws they can. Man-made laws can change with the times, to suit the society in which people live. "God's law" keeps one chained to the past, so that one never gets to live in the present.

Sharon, tell me something:

Where does man-made law come from?

While you are at it, learn what fascism really is. I hear the term "fascism" tossed about quite a bit, by people who obviously don't have a clue what it really entails.

Fascism - from the fasces, or axe bundled with sticks that served as a symbol of authority in Imperial Rome about the time of the Divine Caesars as it deteriorated into a theocracy. The fasces identified the bearer (in the days before television or newspapers)as the one with divine authority, in case you couldn't tell him from the other flesh and blood creatures in his entourage, which tended to be comprised of body guards in direct proportion to his divine authority. The basic tenets were and remain that all worldly authority comes thought designated men from a male god. All claims of rule by divine right in Western Civilization, including present-day royalty, the Pope, the orthodox Patriarchs, are politically, philosophically and theocratically from Imperial Rome.
Not counting the Islamists, who invented a parallel Fascism in the east with help from Italy and Germany in the first half of the 20th century, the most recent example of genuine Fascism in Europe was the Serbian Nationalists under Milosevic.His rants during his rise to power in the early ninties were textbook, and his current do-it-yourself legal defense (it's true - the man who is his own lawyer really does have a fool for a legal counsel)at the Hague are classic Fascist rhetoric. I really wish the Western media would publish or broadcast the daily hilarity.
One of the warning signs of modern Fascism is the modern tendency,in the best of "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" tradition, to call oneself by another name, like "Nationalist". The modern Fascists are, in my observation, currently doing to faith what the Nazis did to patriotism almost a century ago.

Definitons? Here you go, about the best I've seen, from a New York Times review of the new book "The Anatomy of Fascism" by Robert O. Paxton, here is the author's definiton of Fascism. I kept this around just for such a time as this, because the the words are chilling, and you're about to see why :

"A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditonal elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."

Funny, if that doesn't describe radical Islam EXACTLY, though it obviously was meant to describe Nazi Germany.

I don't see how Islam can hide behind the shroud of religion much longer. Anyone can see what it is if they only look hard enough: Islamofascism.
True religious reform is the only way to stop the madness.

From the same article, these words from President George W. Bush:

"The terrorists are the heirs to fascism," he has said. "They have the same will to power, the same disdain for the individual, the same mad global ambitions. And they will be dealt with in just the same way. Like all fascists, the terrorists cannot be appeased: they must be defeated."

That says it all.

Foehammer

Thanks, Foehammer, Paxton's functional definition is a great match for my etymological one. Now if we can get Bob Owens to ask the same question on all the current "Comments" sections and cut and paste our answer,we could...well, no, you and I know that everybody will accept our definitions except, well, by definition, the fascists...

As to the question of the BBC bias, it has been so open a scandal, that one hardly knows where to begin. Start with the Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky, who lives in Cambridge, England, and who has been trying to stop the required licensing fee to be paid to the BBC, on the theory that it is not right that those who violently disagree with its perceived (anti-American, anti-Israel, soft-on-Islam) bias, should have to pay those whom it detests.

Or google "Trevor Asserson," an English barrister (at least, I think he took silk) to see his study of the BBC bias, with particular attention to the Middle East.

Or look up the man in charge of foreign coverage, the man in charge of the World Service which is particularly awful -- a Mr. John Simpson. Read his rant against the United States, on virtually every page, in his latest book about the war in Iraq. Find out about his close friendship with the London Times reporter who helped to arrange for Mordechai Vanunu to spill some of Israel's nuclear secrets, Peter Hounam (now in Israeli custody for violating the security laws of Israel), and Simpson's own introduction to the conspiratorial, antisemitic, and altogether disgraceful "Operation Cyanide," which purports to expose a deliberate plot, mind you, by the Israelis (together with allies in the U.S. government), by prearrangement, and long premeditation, to attack, in 1967, the U.S. S. Libery and... well, look it all up yourself.

Can Simpson be anything but what he is? No. So why is someone like that, someone so definitely parti pris that he is involved in the kind of literature that the real antisemites love to wallow in (and the U.S.S. Liberty is their version of the blood-libel, amply refuted by the American courts of inquiry, by the studies of the retired judge Cristol (sp.?), and by the recently-releated tapes of the Israeli pilots' conversations with each other and with their base.

Once Bukovsky and Asserson have been read, and digested, and once John Simpson's connections and biases amply explored, no fair-minded person could possibly doubt the longstanding and systemic problem with the BBC. The British soldiers in Iraq were so outraged with the wretched bias of the BBC that there were threats even from the limp British government; one BBC reporter actually took public issue with his own BBC out of disgust.

It needs new heads of the Foreign Service, and to have many of its most egregiously anti-American, anti-Israel, pro-Muslim staff discharged. It will not happen. But it should. These are the Lord Haw-Haws and Tokyo Roses of the new, endless, and borderless war between Islam and non-Muslims everywhere.

Signs reading "no guns allowed" are coming down in some Ohio stores and restaurants.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry said it was pleased to announce that two national chains, Southwest Ohio Kroger stores and Perkins Family Restaurants, had "begun removing discriminatory signs banning concealed handgun license-holders from their stores."
So far, at least nine national chains and nearly 50 other businesses have removed their signs and opened their doors to holders of Ohio concealed-handgun licenses, the group said.
In a letter announcing the removal of the signs, Marc Teaberry, the executive vice president of Perkins Family Restaurants, noted that the restaurant chain had "numerous locations in Pennsylvania, which has always had a concealed-weapon law, and have never had any problems." Teaberry said that the company, in posting the signs, had received "bad advice" from its attorneys.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry said it also had received reports that Kroger stores in the Cincinnati Division (which includes greater Dayton) had begun removing their "no guns allowed" signs.
"It is not yet known if this action is in any way related to the assault and robbery of a 70-year-old Kroger customer outside a posted store on May 23," Ohioans For Concealed Carry said in a press release.
The group's Business Education Task Force says it has been working to "educate business owners about the facts surrounding concealed carry." The campaign includes a "do not patronize" list of businesses that carriers of concealed guns are advised to avoid.
"Ohioans already are being forced to learn that businesses on the Do Not Patronize While Armed list are dangerous places to be," said Chad Baus, OFCC spokesman. "Already, customers and employees at 10 retail stores and banks on the list have experienced violent criminal encounters. And that's just the ones we know about."
Ohioans For Concealed Carry says it wants business owners understand that it's in their own best interests to remove the "no gun" signs and allow the concealed-carry law to work.
'No Guns' Signs Come Down in Ohio
Susan Jones, CNSNews.com
Thursday, June 10, 2004

keithjoy
Don't hate libs just don't want them making most of the laws because they get people killed with their silly thinking!

moe you never answered if you had to use water or sand?
You sure came back with more hate in your writting? Did you hear of the fire on the mountian in Jarcarta?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and Her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS Phil if you go to realplayer radio you will find bbc brodcast!

A fun story that will not make the papers

Marines treat Iraqi farmer to bovine therapy
CAMP BLUE DIAMOND, Iraq(June 2, 2004) -- Marines here took an udderly different approach to helping Iraqis.

Marines and sailors came up with a new and unique solution to helping one Iraqi man. And she’s a looker.

She’s got big, brown eyes and an unmistakable sway when she walks. She’s a bit young, but to those who know what to look for, she’s got just what an Iraqi farmer wants.

To be honest, she’s sort of a cow. Not so, say Marines and sailors with 1st Marine Division’s Government Support Team. She’s a special cow - the milking kind.

The division’s GST section bought a cow, with the help of Spirit of America, a nonprofit organization based in Los Angeles. The lucky farmer… well, he’s roaming greener pastures.

“We were meeting with the governor when he commented about this poor farmer’s cow being killed,” explained Lt. Col. Alan G. Burghard Sr., the GST commander. “The farmer had medical ailments that required him to eat dairy products and there was no way to find a way to honor the claim.”

It all started when Marines and enemy forces were shooting it out on a farm near Ramadi a few weeks ago. The farmer’s cow was caught in the crossfire and well… bought the farm. It’s a sad story that’s even sadder because the farmer literally relied on the cow for his health.

But buying a cow wasn’t as easy as it sounded. Specifically, there were rules and regulations against directly buying goods and well… cows. Marines could hand the farmer a check, but a check wasn’t going to put milk in his glass and cheese on his table.

So Burghard approached Jim Hake, the director for Spirit of America to see if he could help. Spirit of America already assisted Marines in Iraq by donating millions of dollars in school, medical and dental supplies. Livestock, though, was something different.

“I related the story to Jim and I got a one-sentence response,” explained Burghard, a 45-year-old from Parsinippay, N.J. “He said, ‘Buy the cow.’”

Buying a cow in Iraq, though, isn’t like heading down to the local livestock show or 4-H Club. Burghard asked the local Iraqi governor to help him locate a cow that was relatively young and already producing milk.

Still, he admitted he didn’t know the first thing about buying the right cow.

“All I know about a cow is hay goes in one end and milk comes out the other,” he said.

That’s where Navy Chief Petty Officer Ron E. Heinen stepped in. He’s a hospital corpsman and emergency medical technician and knew a thing or two about cows. Being from Dayton, Texas and raising a few cows of his own made him, well… the udder expert.

“I wanted to check it for age,” explained 58-year-old Heinen. “You do that by checking the teeth.”

Doing that, though, requires a handful of bovine snot. The trick, he explained, is to get the cow by the nose - one finger in one nostril and a thumb in the other - and squeeze.

“When you do that, they pretty much just freeze,” Heinen said.

What Heinen saw was a bottom set of pearly whites and a top row just starting to come in. It indicated the cow was about three years old. A check over the rest of the animal showed him she was in good shape.

“She was a healthy cow,” he said. “She had good udders. It looked like a good deal.”

Burghard said he had to trust Heinen’s word. Looking at the cow, he thought he was getting a couple extra parts thrown in for free.

“I forgot dairy cows had horns,” he said. “I saw it at first and thought there was something wrong with this picture.”

Heinen said the price was right too. Heinen said he bought a similar cow not too long ago and paid $750. Marines got the cow for the rock-bottom price of $520.

Burghard explained that the cow will not only be able to provide the dairy products the Iraqi farmer needs, but excess can be traded for other goods. Plus, the cow is healthy to breed and has the potential to provide a long line of dairy cows for the farmer’s family.

“What we’re doing isn’t just building bridges,” Burghard added. “It’s building bridges between people. Creative solutions are being found by units.”

For Heinen’s part, he’d gladly do the dirty work of inspecting livestock again.

“When I looked at the cow’s teeth, the Iraqis kind of relaxed,” he explained. “It was like, ‘Hey, this guy knows what he’s doing.’ I actually saw this guy jump in the air as we walked away.”

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Thanks Hugh,Catherine,you guys, the BBC info is just what I needed...I'll be sure to do my homework - Hey Catherine, as a former Buckeye, since when did Ohio get Concealed Carry? Boy, I expatriate to Illinois for a couple of years and look what happens.

Phill
don't know but a lot of libs are carring now after the sniper and all those old farts are on the road in those moter homes travaling with all those readnecks. heard a story about a Cannadian couple in a morethome they had stopped for the night and some one came to rob their gas and he put the hose in the septic they woke up to find vomit and their septic drained! LOL Found the story on the Fox web sight stupid crimanls!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen