Just like it is back home (Egyptos), the top schools' student unions are controlled by various extremist groups; Schools such as Engineering, Medical, & Law, with all of their different branches. As I remember, every morning before lectures (with the Professor’s permission), they used to send one of their guys (a college student) to encourage muslim students to go to Israel and join the terrorist groups there.

Posted by: The_Coptic at July 2, 2004 3:57 PM

Sageman's findings about the social and psychological makeup of the terrorist network "sound perfectly plausible to me," said Jessica Stern, a former expert on terrorism at the National Security Council who's now at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government in Cambridge, Mass. "It's consistent with my findings."

In her interviews with terrorists, Stern found a common thread to be a feeling of humiliation for the decline of their once-great Islamic culture. "If you're humiliated, you want to blame somebody and try to fix it," she said.

Stern's interviews can be found in her 2003 book, Terror in the Name of God: Why Religious Militants Kill

I highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in trying to understand these people and their motivations.

Posted by: lobo91 at July 2, 2004 4:04 PM

With 99% of the schools in the Muslim world being religiously funded and majority in focus and well over 70% of the degrees earned being something akin to Islam, Islamic History, Arab History, etc -- can it really be any wonder that the best minds are being shaped into the weapons of hate and war?

Also, when people keep saying that it is a minority of Islam -- as if that isn't very dangerous, I am quick to remind them that the Nazis were hardly a majority in Germany, but a minority with billy clubs and the bent to use them will control any majority in a fascist state.

This worked perfectly well for the Taliban until the United States came in with bigger sticks.

Islam MUST reform. There is no other solution and failing to do so will most definitely lead to the Third World War. It's not difficult at all to understand this once some reading is done and this is why so many that come here and post in these threads agree so often with each other.

Obviously, the unwitting (?) Libertarian Socialist allies of the Islamists would call us all insane. But will that stop the dark future from unfolding? Of course not. And this is the biggest danger and why we must keep shouting from the rooftops.

Posted by: Foehammer at July 2, 2004 5:02 PM

With 99% of the schools in the Muslim world being religiously funded and majority in focus and well over 70% of the degrees earned being something akin to Islam, Islamic History, Arab History, etc -- can it really be any wonder that the best minds are being shaped into the weapons of hate and war?

Also, when people keep saying that it is a minority of Islam -- as if that isn't very dangerous, I am quick to remind them that the Nazis were hardly a majority in Germany, but a minority with billy clubs and the bent to use them will control any majority in a fascist state.

This worked perfectly well for the Taliban until the United States came in with bigger sticks.

Islam MUST reform. There is no other solution and failing to do so will most definitely lead to the Third World War. It's not difficult at all to understand this once some reading is done and this is why so many that come here and post in these threads agree so often with each other.

Obviously, the unwitting (?) Libertarian Socialist allies of the Islamists would call us all insane. But will that stop the dark future from unfolding? Of course not. And this is the biggest danger and why we must keep shouting from the rooftops.

Posted by: Foehammer at July 2, 2004 5:02 PM

They don't fit a stereotype?

Funny, I can't remember the last time I saw a blonde-haired, blue-eyed suicide bomber...

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 2, 2004 5:26 PM

Foehammer Islam cannot be reformed. Islam has to be destroyed. How could Islam be reformed without going against Koran?

Posted by: josé maría at July 2, 2004 5:50 PM

Bob_Owens,

You have, two of them actually, only their performance art of choice was not strapping themselves with bombs (although some evidence suggests that was an alternative)but shooting their classmates and teachers dead. They presumably were trapped and committed double suicide ala "Ned Kelly" before they got to the last act finale.

As I keep saying in these threads, the notion of terrorist or revolutionary, domestic or foreign, rising up from oppression to lash out at his tormentors, is largely mythological - with occasional deviations like Northern Ireland as notable(and explainable)exceptions. Generally, the poor are cannonfodder, not leaders. Ironically enough, as Marx (with his perpetual indebtedness to Engels)could have warned Lenin, revolutions don't pay, so bring plenty of cash...they are, in a convoluted, but nevertheless historically accurate, way, still a rich man's game. Right,"Bong-Boy" Bin-Laden?

Posted by: Phil at July 2, 2004 6:10 PM

In her interviews with terrorists, Stern found a common thread to be a feeling of humiliation for the decline of their once-great Islamic culture. "If you're humiliated, you want to blame somebody and try to fix it," she said.

I guess with out having read Stern`s book, it is still difficult to grasp why terrorism is the answer to their problems? It seems to be the worst answer to remedy their humiliation and they end up denegrating their religion in the process.

It reminds us of the child brought up in a family that is void of teaching good character and forming a solid foundation and when he enters the mainstream of America he is not equipped with the proper tools to function in a descent society. Thus he lashes out at those who are. Our prisons are full of these kind of people.

Posted by: Mackie at July 2, 2004 8:50 PM

Signs of humiliation abound. Some of my Saudi coworkers will admit that Saddam gone and out of power is a good thing, but they are upset that we made the initial military phase look so easy. And they do feel humiliated that in the last 60 years, every time they have gone to war with the "West" - western technology, western tactics, western military, they have lost.

Westerners help train the Saudi military. Westerners even teach Saudi pilots desert survival. Westerners help maintain the economic and industrial infrastructure - oil and mining -of the country. This generates terrible feelings of inferiority in a people who regard themselves as "special".

And until a Saudi child who wins a national science contest is more highly valued through out society than one who wins a Qur'anic memorization and recitation contest, nothing will really change.

jay

Posted by: jay at July 2, 2004 9:57 PM

I wish that people had known the truth about Islamic terrorists before September 11, 2001. This would have helped us prevent the attacks.

Posted by: Christian at July 2, 2004 10:20 PM

On Terrorism:

Bob Owens: The IRA used suicide bombings against the British. One way they did this was to take a family hostage, and make the father and husband drive an explosive-laden vehicle up to the target. It's reported in Ed Moloney's _A Sectet History of the IRA_.

Also, danger and violence are a thrill to many people, not just Muslims. However, if you combine a sacred text that is full of exhortations of violence against the unbeliever and couple it with a parental generation that idolized a pantheon of successful terrorists (Mao Zedong, Che Guevara, Ho Chi Minh, Castro) and nurtured a sense of grievance against other cultures, you've got an explosive mix. The conflict between Nasser's military socialist nationalists and Seiyyid Qutb's Muslim Brothers wasn't modernity against tradition, but a quarrel over the best way to get back at the West.

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 2, 2004 10:56 PM

Dependency engenders resentment....

It does so by showing the inadequacies of those dependent. Blame is transferred outward towards those most associated with those bad feelings.

And so, France is embittered. Each June 6th she must relive her weakness and failure. Hence forth, the Germans get to join in. Both are engaged in fulsome revisionism inre WWII....

As for Araby...You have an entire polity unable to rise to adulthood. They have completely pre-industrial 'economies'. They rent their monuments and export mineral wealth (oil).

Hence, the muslims just sit around and bitch.

For the technically educated there is essentially no purpose to returning home. Outside of the health services there is no demand. Until the internet, home meant professional isolation -- an intellectual desert.

It is from this frustrated technocratic class that Islamism has been reborn.

More than they can believe, the West created this problem by providing subsidised food. This is particulaly true for Europe. Rock bottom food prices, enhanced health care in a society that is virtually immune from economic growth.
( Most 'growth' figures in the ME revolve entirely around those activities driven and funded externally -- oil & tourism.)

The West should discourage advanced educations for muslims. Any muslim schooled in the West ought to be placed in the humanities -- never in the sciences.

To educate a muslim in science is to isolate him from his culture, his faith and his family. Science and Islam are totally opposed world views.

Posted by: blert at July 3, 2004 3:57 AM

Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph don't fit the stereotype any more than the European and Russian jihadists that are here, waiting to strike. They could standing next to you right now! However, until the American public understands this, the ME stereotype will prevail.

Posted by: epg at July 3, 2004 8:54 AM

This is a good start, but the article doesn't go nearly deep enough to be able to understand the minds of these people. I'd like to read the book though.

But RS's assessment that "it is not a movement that is purveying some newly-minted heresy, but one that is forthrightly, even defiantly, traditionalist," is somewhat deceptive.

We need to understand that these kids who become radicalized are not continuing a tradition that dominated the Muslim world. It is separate from the type of Islam practiced by most of their parents. These kids take on this new fundamentalist Islam almost as a form of rebellion to their parents. In the way that punk music was a form of rebellion for some Western youths, so too is this fundamentalist Islam (especially among Western Muslims). They perceive it as being a "pure Islam", which is purged of the cultural innovations of their parents' Islam. They want to recreate from scratch the version of Islam that supposedly existed 1400 years ago.

In that sense RS is correct the the movement is "defiantly traditionalist". But the implication he makes is that this movement is the continuation of something that has continuously dominated Muslim social space since the origins of Islam. In my view it is rather an attempt to kickstart an interpretation of Islam that supposedly existed 1400 years and soon faded out (thus their need for the term "Salafi"). It is for this reason why I prefer to use the label put forward by Olivier Roy of "neo-fundamentalism", which implies a break in the line of tradition.

Until these basic things are not fully understood, it won't be possible to bting about the much needed reform of Islam, nor will we be able to stem the tide of neo-fundamentalism.

Posted by: Chan'ad at July 3, 2004 10:16 AM

Mackie:

I guess with out having read Stern`s book, it is still difficult to grasp why terrorism is the answer to their problems? It seems to be the worst answer to remedy their humiliation and they end up denegrating their religion in the process.

That's because you're looking at the situation from the viewpoint of an educated, relatively affluent Westerner who was raised in a culture that was shaped by Judeo-Christian values.

As long as you continue to approach the question from that angle, you're no more likely to understand the motivation of a Jihadist than you are to understand why a cat will suddenly spring to its feet and run into the next room at full speed for no apparent reason.

Go check out a copy of Stern's book from you local library. After you read it, you'll begin to understand what motivates them.

The down side, however, is that you'll probably also begin to see just how big a challenge we really face.

Posted by: lobo91 at July 3, 2004 11:42 AM

Jay:

"Signs of humiliation abound."

Jay is correct, but the Islamic-Arab mindset is revolved around this vicious cycle of
A)Over-weened "Pride"

B) Hummiliation "because who can stand such pompousity?"

c) Revenge, because "You have hummiliated me because you have not supported my self-image"

There's a way to break the cycle, and that is overwhelming military and or, political defeat. I don't mean "overwhelming" in the 6-Day War sense of it, I mean overwhelming in the sense of,
"We took on the Kufar, and now live in bombed-out craters, and or-some camp in the dessert. Note: I don't mean UNRWA-permanent industry camps-I mean--no where else to live, Camps!

A different path is for the USA to move toward liberating ourselves from Muslim Oil. I mean from Nigeria to Indonesia-no importation of their resources. To wit, moving toward alternate suppliers, technologies, the whole 9 yards. This would undermine the Islamic world, as despite their envy of the USA, their envy of the Jews, they are dependent on petroleum to sustain their societies economies. This would still leave their societies capable of attacking us, but it would incur less bloodshed, if we don't have the stomach for it.

Posted by: DHIMMIPOWER at July 3, 2004 2:41 PM

lobo91:

Thanks, I shall check the library for that book or Barnes and noble.

Another good book is "The Two Faces of Islam, The House of Sa`ud from Tradition to Terror" by Stephen Schwartz.

Posted by: Mackie at July 3, 2004 2:54 PM

I've had time to think some more about this. It's not just the dependence. It's that the dependence never ends. It's less work if someone else does it for them.

A sizeable portion of the Saudi population does not have the educational background or the work ethic to function in an industrial or technological society. Seventy five or eighty per cent (Arab News statistics) of the college graduates here have degrees in some sort of Islamic studies. Very few engineers, physicists, and mathematicians. Things like calculus are WORK.
We're starting to see quite a few IT graduates. But even that doesn't require a lot of heavy duty math and science.

Here, they are teaching knitting in the girls' schools (also from the Arab News).

I have coworkers that cannot calculate an average or a percentage - and are not particularily interested in learning.

And there's another problem: expectations. In the West, we can realisticaly hope that our children will have a better life than we did. Here, the younger generation already knows that they will not have as good a life as their parents did.

Think demographic time bomb. TICK, TICK, TICK ...

jay

Posted by: jay at July 3, 2004 4:06 PM

epg wrote:

"Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph don't fit the stereotype any more than the European and Russian jihadists that are here, waiting to strike. They could standing next to you right now! However, until the American public understands this, the ME stereotype will prevail."

The quickest path to understanding is to ask questions. And the first and most important question that needs to be asked is, "Who's bankrolling these people? Where do they get the capital to operate? They can't all be disturbed rich kids (although most are)or "adopted" by some foreign power...

Posted by: Phil at July 3, 2004 4:25 PM

jay,

You're right, it's not just dependence...Lee Harris is right,the right of self-determination involves more than just drawing lines on a map,as if city council was zoning for a new gas station.
The Saudis have head problems as a people because they know, in their heart of hearts, that they aren't even a country...that in terms of Realpolitik - and common sense - they have less right to exist than the State of Israel! Nothing more than a family - owned, self serve gas station...or worse, the conclusion of a massive Hobbesian social experiment, where the unfortunate subjects, even after nearly a century,find their lives remain "...solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

I almost feel sorry for them.

Ok, guys, I said "almost".

Posted by: Phil at July 3, 2004 5:06 PM

Islam is heathenism in a monotheistic form!

America blacks have been deceived. Only people with white faces will be saved. Sura 3:106,107
Arab Muslims were enslaving black Africans long before the west.

The Quran should be called the book or self contradiction. I wonder, was the world made in 6 or 8 days, guess it depends on what part of the sura you read. It says both. Make sense of that!

Abrahams father was not named Azar, He did not live in Mecca, he did not sacrifice Ishmael, he had eight sons, not two, three wifes, not two, did not build the the Ka’aba. And the flood did not happen in Moses day. Can they get anything right...

Muslims are born of deception and weaned on violence.

Sura 4:3 forbids more than 4 wifes, Mohammed had 16!

Any new revelation must agree with what is already established as God’s Word. Isa 8:20.

That’s why Jehovah's Witness and Mormon’s are called Cults. There new revelation doesn’t fit what we already know as God’s Word.The truth shall set you free!

Posted by: Bar at July 3, 2004 7:27 PM

bar- is that the best you can do? the ayah is as follows.
"On the Day when some faces will be (lit up with) white, and some faces will be (in the gloom of) black: To those whose faces will be black, (will be said): "Did ye reject Faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting Faith."
as in, the light will light their faces. african american muslims included. and, muslims NEVER enslaved in the way americans did. muslims are commanded to treat their workers fairly and provide for all their needs. in case you didnt know, the africans were a free race beofre americans decided that what they need is good, free labor, which they found in african americans. Bilal, one of the companions of the Holy Prophet, was indeed african american, and he was freed by the muslims while he was being persecuted by a disbeliever. and he was not enslaved after that; he became the person that called the rest of the Muslims to prayer during the Prophet's time.
ibrahim's father was named Azar. yes, indeed, he did not sacrifice ismael- the sacrified a sheep which was put in place of ismael at the last minute. and yes, that specific flood was not during moses's time, unless you think so otherwise, which i can do nothing about.
"Sura 4:3 forbids more than 4 wifes, Mohammed had 16!"
wow, yourse wrong both parts. there is absolutely nothing forbidding more then 4 wives. it states: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."
meaning, you can have more. unless you think that it should have gone on to say "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four or five or six or seven or eight, etc".

Posted by: muslim at July 3, 2004 8:46 PM

Obviously, the poster 'muslim' hasn't got a clue about the history of Islamic slave trading. Instead, he/she merely tries to convince us Infidels that Islam is good and tolerant and treats people of ALL faiths, colors, creeds, nationalities equally and provides for all their 'needs'...

So let me ask you this... Are you willing to DEMAND the freedom of all the slaves of muslims everywhere be freed IMMEDIATELY and let go? Yeah, that's what I thought.

And when you say that muslims attend to the needs of non-muslims, does that mean that before each beheading your swords are sharpened? I mean shouldn't every person being beheaded by your fellow followers of the Religion of rest-in-Peace be afforded the sharpest blade for the quickest and cleanest cut? Why was Nick Berg's head cut off with a dull steak knife such that it takes several minutes to saw all the way through?

Let me say this... You and your fellow followers of the Religion of rest-in-Peace are considered BILLIONS OF PEOPLE around the world to one of the lowest life if not THE LOWEST life forms on this planet. Keep it up. Once the scales start tipping the other way there won't be any place you'll be able to escape to because it won't be armies who will be hunting you down and putting you out of your misery. And our Infidel Army won't be bound by any Geneva Convention either.

Like my departed dad use to say... "Keep it up!"

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 3, 2004 11:34 PM

Muslim: why don’t you have a replie to my 1st comment?Islam is heathenism in a monotheistic form.!
How about the numbers of errors in the Qur’an!
How many days was the world made in? 6 or 8, pick one! Do you make it up as you go along!

I notice you just passed that one by.. No answer?

Your not even good and giving an argument, I guess that is why you Cut the heads off!

So tell us about your moon god?

Muslims DO NOT pray to the same God (Yahweh of Holy Scripture) of Christians and Jews! Before Mohammed the arabs had 365 gods - one for each day of the year. Mohammed picked Allah (the arab moon god) Notice the moon on all the arab stuff!
Muslim's and any considering Islam should take care to note that the Allah they are praying to has not one attribute of love!

And the prophet who never prophesied.
Just another False prophet! You bet!
And a pedophile at that. A 51 year old Man having sex with a 9 year old girl.
That’s sick stuff no matter what period in history.

What about this: Any new revelation must agree with what is already established as God’s Word. Isa 8:20, Do you have an answer for that?

Should I go on? There is more to tell about your MAN MADE religion!

Mohammed was a terrorist, criminal, murderer whose life was based on victimizing innocents and indulging in mindless violence, carnage and massacre. He was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage and death

And Allah started out as a rock! Dt. 32:31 “There rock is not like our Rock.” For there vine is the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah; Their grapes are grapes of gall, there clusters are bitter. Their wine is the poison of serpents, and the cruel venom of cobras. Vengeance is Mine, and recompense; Their foot shall slip in due time; For the day of there calamity is at hand, and the things to come hasten upon them. Your allah cant stop that! He's not even alive, he's a rock!

John 2: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

If you want to fight America, 1st learn history. And be prepared to die. We are really good at killing large numbers of the enemy

Vietnam = lets see 60,000 +/- Americans Dead vs 1.5 million Vietnamese combatants and four million civilians were killed in the war. We good!

And killing people will not help, we will get the truth out about Isalm. The truth shall set you free..

You couldnt understand freedom.. Islam for bids it!

We will make the Arabian Peninsula our parking lot for our big fat American cars. You low people can not stop us!

Posted by: Bar at July 4, 2004 3:39 AM

Hey if Muslims want to fight then why do you hide behind towels? You are all Back biters! If your Allah is so great, then be a man and fight like a man, you fight like women. This proves that you have no faith! all the world knows Islam is a fake. You know that your moon/rock god is no match for the God of Israel. The one true living God ( Jesus ). Thats why you fight like little girls. No Islam, know peace

Posted by: Bar at July 4, 2004 4:00 AM

Al Mahdi, could he be the false prophet of rev. 13?

Posted by: Bar at July 4, 2004 4:12 AM

Archaeological and linguistic work done since the latter part of the 19th century has discovered overwhelming evidence that Mohammed constructed his religion and the Quran form preexisting material in the Arabian culture!

The Quran is an amalgam of Hinduism, Buddhism, Mythaism, Greek mystery religions as well as elements from Judaism and Christianity.

Islam born of deception, weaned on hate.

Lets look at Ishmael for a moment.

Gen 16:1

He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man's hand against him

Hey the word of God is right again!

Posted by: Bar at July 4, 2004 4:33 AM

It is amazing that muslims lie almost always. Slavery is un the very root of their ideology.

Posted by: josé maría at July 4, 2004 6:23 AM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal: if it was up to me, there would be absolutely no slavery. Ever. Including no slavery in the past, including America. I’m sure you know how slaves were treated in America, and I do not need to expand.
In case you did not know, all Muslims are not terrorists. If you think so, then I can do nothing to stop you. If you judge all Muslims by a few terrorists, then I will judge all Americans by the abuse scandal and I will judge all Christians by the Oklahoma bombings.
I don’t see what you are trying to prove. If you’re trying to tell me that youre better then me because im a muslim and you are not, then you really aren’t doing anything, because im not believing anything you say, like you aren’t believing anything im saying.
“Muslim: why don’t you have a replie to my 1st comment?Islam is heathenism in a monotheistic form.!”
What am I supposed to say? As long as I know that you are lying, theres nothing I can say. If you need a reply: keep going on about that. I wont believe you.
The world wasn’t made in 6 days or 8.
I don’t have a moon god, thanks.
Oh and by the way, you haven’t said anything about the stuff I proved wrong in your statement- what about that, or do you accept youre wrong?
Wow- you sound pretty uneducated. "notice the moon on the arab stuff!" Okay. The “moon on the arab stuff”, as you say, does not symbolize god. Our calendar is a lunar one, which means according to the moon. Our year is based according to the moon. The moon does not symbolize a belief in islam; I really don’t know why it said to usually represent islam. And by the way, all Muslims are not arabs.
Allah has no attribute of love? Whats that supposed to mean?
“and the prophet who never prophesized.” A prophet, according to dictionary.com, is “A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.” You don’t need to prophesize.
All the pedophile stuff I choose to ignore, because if you want to know about that, read earlier posts. Im not going to go on, repeating myself over and over again. And plus, that’s a very weak argument. And for some reason, recently, ive heard a whole bunch of stuff about preists molesting children. Hmm, I wonder what that was all about…
and plus, marriage between age differences was completely normal during the time of the Holy Prophet.
“Mohammed was a terrorist, criminal, murderer whose life was based on victimizing innocents and indulging in mindless violence, carnage and massacre. He was a man who destroyed peace wherever he went, and in its place brought terror, carnage and death”
oh, really? If that’s what you think, then youre the one at loss.
And what you used: Dt. 32:31. Why should I accept it if you aren’t willing to accept what I say?
“you fight like women.” And whats that supposed to mean? ther are women out there fighting, and i dont see you in the army, so i guess those women are braver then you. If you think you are all big, then do us all a favor and join the army. God knows we need people like -ahem- you to fight all the terrorists out there.
The god of Israel? And that’s supposed to be yaweh, isn’t it? First of all, jews aren’t even supposed to say ‘Yaweh’. Im glad my God doesn’t distance Himself from his followers. Bar- youre weird. I don’t even know what youre trying to prove, besides your opinion that islam is not a good religion. “He whom Allah has misguided cannot be guided, and he whom Allah has guided cannot be misguided. Verily, the best guide is that of Mohammed (SAW).”

Posted by: muslim at July 4, 2004 3:38 PM

Oh listen to the voice of reason tell us Infidels how good and tolerant and peaceful Islam is and has always been.

Repeat after me... Islam is Evil.. Evil must be destroyed. Ergo, Islam must be destroyed.

If you think Islam is NOT evil then why don't you go somewhere, pour gasoline over your head, and firmly grab a hammer with both hands and work at putting the fire out.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 4, 2004 4:34 PM

Correction..

If you think Islam is NOT evil then why don't you go somewhere, pour gasoline over your head, SET IT ON FIRE and then firmly grab a hammer with both hands and work at putting the fire out.

I'm sure you'll be much brighter for having conducted the exercise. Besides... Allah commands ALL MUSLIMS to do this to prove their love for it..

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 4, 2004 4:42 PM

I'd prefer that one of the Imams or Mullahs who post regularly at this site answer instead of me.

Got a quick question though. What does the (SAW) you write after the name of your mass murderer, rapist, thief, and pedophile prophet stand for? I know the AW stands for AssWipe but what does the 'S' mean?

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 4, 2004 4:47 PM

Muslim: Why does Islam hate the west?
Im not saying that we are better. Every man is created equal. Islam has started the holy war. Jihad! We as Americans can not stand idly by and let it happen. We are only reading the Quran and then telling people what it says. Why does it cause such a problem when the truth is out. There are bad people in every religion, Yours is the only one that teaches it. You are even told to lie to us infidels, so how can we believe you! Does your God have any attribute of Love? We know that the Quran says that you are better then us. The bible never once tells us to kill any unbeliever. We are to love and pray for you. What does the Quran say about unbelievers ?
You are to kill us! We must stand up to Islam, it is a threat to Americans,Jews,Christians.
I believe that Islam in America is here to take over the evil Satan! Why would a Muslim live in America and live under our Christian Laws! One Nation under God, That’s the God of the Jew’s!
How could a Muslim live under that unless it is only temporary! When in America you are a servant to our God and Laws. How do you know Im not in the Army? Don’t forget Americans love there Guns, so if Jihad comes here you better make sure there are not any Muslims around, because we will shoot first and ask questions later. We don’t hide behind towels, we let you know that we are going after you then we do it! That’s how a real Man of Faith fights! I know my God will protect me, and Muslims actions show there not really sure!
And you are kinda right I am just a dumb American. But my mommy says “stupid is as stupid does”!

Posted by: Bar at July 4, 2004 5:15 PM

I figured it out!

The 'S' in SAW stands for Supreme! Sorry it took me so long to put that together.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 4, 2004 6:53 PM

Bar said:

I believe that Islam in America is here to take over the evil Satan! Why would a Muslim live in America and live under our Christian Laws! One Nation under God, That’s the God of the Jew’s!
How could a Muslim live under that unless it is only temporary!

The first thing that needs to be acknowledged is that being 'Muslim' is not the only identity carried by Muslims. Muslims are not only Muslims, but are also parents, siblings, children, employees, bosses, friends, politicians, citizens, and above all, human beings. They have interests that go beyond their Muslims identities, and may therefore be driven to do things for reasons other than Islam. Although Osama bin Laden claims to be doing everything for the sake of Allah, let's be serious. I'm sure he has his personal interests to care about, his family, his friends, his money, his comfort. And being in the position that he is, he also has to be somewhat of a politician, compromising his Islamic values for other reasons. This is why we can't try to understand his actions just by reading the Quran and the Prophetic traditions. Nor can we undersand his actions just by listening to his rhetoric. We have to understand who he is, his culture, his interests, his history. These are the things that make up a human being; not merely words written on parchment centuries ago.

And this applies to all Muslims in general... not just the terrorist kind. To be able to understand Muslims we have to learn about their culture (not just "Islamic culture" if such a thing exists). We have to understand how Muslims interpret symbols, icons and rhetoric that are used. In the case of the shahada we need to know the significance of this phrase to Muslims, and not just what it means for Hamas. Only then can we begin to make a judgement on whether its use constitutes malicious intent or not.

Posted by: Chan'ad at July 4, 2004 10:48 PM

Oh please! Now us Infidels need to work on UNDERSTANDING muslims!

Well, I'll start to understand muslims as soon as you go to Saudi Arabia, stand on a street corner, and repeatedly yell that muslims NEED TO START UNDERSTANDING US!

If you kept your head attached to your body for longer than a few minutes I'd be really suprised. Not that all those muslims you speak of which need so much of our understanding are in any way intolerant spiteful or otherwise inherently hate ridden human waste. Nope. Wouldn't want to say that.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at July 5, 2004 12:04 AM

Great comment Mahdi... funny stuff, SAW = Supreme Ass Wipes.... LMAO

Chan'ad.. Allah = Unknowable, impersonal, capricious ( untrustworthy )

What kind of person would want a God like that?

How could you think we are so dumb as to believe Islam is about love, when you Translated it into English and most people can read in this Country, what were you thinking, it would be easy for you to hide your hate!

according to the Qur'an, Only good Muslim's Convert or kill Jews and Christians,

so are all the Muslims here just bad Muslims?

Posted by: Bar at July 5, 2004 12:51 AM

Check this out it came from a link I found in the comment posted here.
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

Question: Are women allowed to touch The Quraan while menstruating?

Answer: It is not permissible for a woman in her menses to touch or read the Qur’aan.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Crazy, Just crazy, these poor people dont have any freedom or common sense!

No-Islam Know Peace

Posted by: Bar at July 5, 2004 3:58 AM

Question: I am deeply disturbed by what is happening in Palestine and the following questions obsess me ...Is a Muslim allowed to kill unarmed civilians, pregnant women and little children?

Answer: Irrespective of the objectives of a martyr, it is incorrect to kill civilians especially women and children and there is no reward for killing a civilian Jew in times of peace. Yes, if the target is a soldier, for instance, and a civilian is caught in the crossfire, it will be viewed as unavoidable collateral damage.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Muhammad Kadwa
FATWA DEPT.

checked & approved by: mUFTI EBRAHIM DESAI (FATWA DEPT.)

Wow no reward for killing a jew in times of peace. well isnt it all was a time of war!
But hey kill all the soldiers you wont!

That sounds like a peace loving religion to me. NOT! Through the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Posted by: Bar at July 5, 2004 4:08 AM