This would be ideal if the practice of Islam did not forbid it. The group of person who oppose the political radical terrorism and barbaric practices would be ousted and shunned by all other Muslins, they may even be hunted down and slaughtered. Does anyone remember Iran's spiritual leader putting the author of that book opposing some of these radical practices on a hit list. I haven't followed it lately but he went into hidding.

We need to make our own list of Muslins in the Western world and use our technology to keep track of their activities, after all they are maintaining list of Christians and Jews. We are suppose to have all these tools for listening and tracking individuals in our military and intellegents departments, USE THEM.

They are using our own Constitution and free world to win this Jihad. They, like any other military offensive, look for the weakness and attack there quickly before they figure it out.

We need to look harder at our INS policies and STOP giving terrorist residence and an umbrella of protection under our constitution.

We must awaken quickly or this war has been won. by Islam.

Posted by: lahoma at July 7, 2004 11:16 AM

A lecture by Reuven Kaminer at the Munchner Volkshochschule was billed as “Israelis and Palestinians: The Battle of the Peace Movement”. Its key speaker was Prof. Dr. Reuven Kaminer who was stated as being affiliated with the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. But at the beginning of the lecture, Reiner Bernstein, a moderator announced that. Mr. Kaminer is not from Hebrew University and is a lawyer. He has both organized and attended many Israeli peace protests, the most recent attended by 150,000 Israeli’s reflecting all sides of the Palestinian issue

The lecture began after a half hour delay, and could have easily been called, “Blame the Israeli’s”. Mr. Kaminer, who said he was Jewish, began his lecture by stating that the Israelis were building a wall which separated families, kept people from hospitals and inconvenienced Palestinians who wanted to work in Israel. He referred to Israel as an “Occupier of Palestinian land” and the Israeli Army as an “Army of occupation”. He referred to the wall as a bad plan with no chance of success in any form. According to him, the wall snakes through the occupied territories, “Grabbing land” here and there and fosters only hatred by making life unbearable for the Palestinians.

To Mr. Kaminer, Ariel Sharon intentionally created obstacles to peace by deliberately side railing any negations with Yassar Arafat, who he believes was undermined by an Israeli general who falsely feed information that Arafat was not serious about peace negations. This false information is one reason why Sharon refuses to further deal with Mr. Arafat. According to Mr. Kaminer, the Dayton accords were not Arafat’s fault for failing, but the fault of the Israelis. Israeli government officials, he said, indicated that Arafat was a crook and could not be negotiated with. He stated that if Mr. Arafat was indeed a “Crook” he would have just signed the agreement and reneged on it at a later time. Because he didn’t, he is not a “Crook”.

Mr. Kaminer was highly critical of the Israeli Judicial system, citing the case of 5 Israeli teenagers who refused to serve in the army. One was his relative who he helped to defend. Despite the legal defense, they were sentenced to time in jail for their stated refusal to join an “Army of Occupation”. He said that the minister of justice admired their principled stand, but refuses to release them.

He cited several instances where Israel’s Jewish theology knocks heads with its Zionist ideology. He said that the Jewish notion of justice and morality is in direct contradiction with its practice of occupation and repression. According to him, Israel is the world’s expert in espionage, torture and interrogation as well as the art of occupation, mentioning that America is assisted in Iraq by the Israelis. He also stated the only unifying bond among Jews world wide, was Israel. He knew this by speaking to his friends some of whom live in Detroit. He then went on to say shortly later, that the Zionist dream means little to Jew in Israel today.

He repeatedly said that Israel under Sharon does not want peace, because it is available and the 1967 borders would be part of the solution. He said that the party of “No Party” in the government was false in its assessment of the conflict and Arafat is the person to continue dealing with. To him, Sharon negotiates with everyone, Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan as well as the America, but not the Palestinians. He went on to further discuss the previous accords and negotiations in general terms, all the while implying fanciful scenarios where Israel or Sharon sabotaged the discussions and Arafat as a result was unable to secure peace.

The 2 hour lecture was ended with a round of questions from the mostly German audience of about 20 included at least one Arab moderator and at least one Arab woman. The audience included some people wearing peace buttons and carrying some of the protest pamphlets against the Iraq war/ Peace and justice in Palestine, handed out on the way in. The question and answer session was dominated by questions and statements about the Israeli occupation and the prospects for peace.

Mr. Kaminer said he was an optimist and that with continued support the only solution as he sees it, would be the successful creation of a Palestinian state which includes the 1967 borders. He said that the oppression that the Paestinians feel compels them to commit suicide bombings and resort to other violence. He then pointed out however, that Ahud Barak is quoted as stating he would become a terrorist if he were a Palestinian.

He said that if most people saw the conditions in the occupied territories as he has, they would understand why the Palestinians feel oppressed and act out with violence. The people in the audience were clearly in agreement with his opinions on this issue, but one questioned his opinion of the suicide bombings. This he said he was against and disapproved of. The only question regarding Israel’s security was a question about the success of the separation wall in reducing suicide attacks. When asked what he thought about it, Mr. Kaminer said that it was not a success because it would only be a matter of time before they go around, tunnel under of figure out other ways to attack. He said one would have to be an “Idiot” to think it was the solution to Israel’s problem and that generals in history were all “Idiots”, because wars never solved problems. He mentioned that someone called diplomats untrustworthy and generals, idiots with more than a bit of self amusement.

Posted by: Andrew at July 7, 2004 11:25 AM

Thank God for the Israelis, and May God Bless them, every one.

Posted by: CGW at July 7, 2004 11:33 AM

Throughout the lecture, Mr. Kaminer could barely conceal his dislike for perceived Israeli hypocracy. He invites being labeled a self hating Jew who appears to relate unconditionally only to the plight of the Palestinians. Although he said he wants peace, he made absolutely no attempt to discuss the Palestinian’s responsibility in all this. He quickly dismissed the suicide bombing as acts of a desperate oppressed people and made no further mention of their violence and culture of hatred towards the state of Israel as taught in their kindergartens. There was not one word mentioned about Islamic Jihad or Hamas. No mention of these two terrorist entities which reject the legitimacy of Israel under any circumstances and are committed to its total destruction, seems a glaring omission..

The most disappointing thing in addition to the anti-Israeli sentiments expressed was the reaction of the audience. The small group of mostly Germans was in total agreement with Mr. Kaminer. I couldn’t help thinking that Munich 2004 is probably similar to Munich of the 1930’s with latent anti-Semitism is now once again emerging in the form of a reckless pro-Palestinian bias.

No one challenged his position or questioned at all the Palestinian leadership. There were no challenges to his assumptions regarding the way Sharon “Thinks”, or the “Intentions” of Arafat’. He offered few hard facts to support his many claims but mentioned that peace must be achieved somehow.

It seems anti-Israelism has fertile ground in Europe, which is apparently forgetting the lessons of Nazi Germany. Is Europe once again following its ancient hostilities in the guise of anti-Israeli sentiments down the road to a new wave of Jew hatred, wrapped in blind solidarity with the Palestinian cause?

Posted by: Andrew at July 7, 2004 11:36 AM

Some people believe that this pursuit of creating muslim states is new. Political islam? islam has always been an ideology disguised as a religion. You only have to remember history to appreciate that islam has been and is married with power. Don´t you remember the caliphat? By the way that "pacifist" Gandhi was against the destruction of the caliphate. Appeasement that not avoided the partition of India. Muslims have never enough, it is stupid to make political arrangements with them because they will not fulfil it.

Posted by: josé maría at July 7, 2004 1:53 PM