Note to KeithJoy: Michael Moore says there is NO terrorist threat to the US.

Your comments on this (man's honesty and integrity), Please.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 10:41 AM

Naaaa, the suicide note and anti-American material I'm sure have just been "taken out of context".

Since he wants to die, kill him and save American taxpayers yet another burden caused by our Government letting all of these haters into our country in the first place. We're paying the taxes, so we should be able to say who stays and who goes.

I cast my vote for the removal of Islam from the United States of America. Islamic literature, websites, television and radio shows, and especially all learning institutions, everything. This, of course, includes all Muslims that haven't bothered to apply for citizenship.

Lastly, I cast my vote for absolutely, positively no more Muslim immigrants into our wonderful country.

No we know why they oppose the Patriot Act.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 14, 2004 10:51 AM

I hope that they use "non-traditional" methods of interrogation on this guy.

This is HUGE. If Al Qaeda was indeed planning a coordinated attack on multiple locations, we now have the time and date. Even though this terrorist's knowledge of targets may be limited beyond his own site, we may be able to squeeze a few more out of him.

Does anyone know if "truth serum" - type drugs like sodium pentathol can currently be used in a situation like this?

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 10:51 AM

Not to completely freak everyone out (though I'm sure it will), check out this story.

While the credibility of the source seems dubious, it isn't causing any less knots in my stomach.

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 14, 2004 10:54 AM

All Americans who practice Islam actively by going to mosques on a regular basis must be deported, because Islam is not just a religion but also an ideology like communism. Its vision is a global caliphate ruled by Sharia. Muslims pose a direct threat to democracy because of their ideals and because they breed like rats, thus in a decade or two they will have a demographical advantage.

True strength of a nation is not military might but national unity. The U.S. is currently a rather weak nation of self-hating individuals who are afraid of the consequences of being non-PC, and as a result, unwilling to deal with the Muslim threat from within.

9/11 and Iraq could have been avoided if we simply didn't let any Muslim scum into our country in the first place. Furthermore, if we didn't rely on Arab oil, they wouldn't have had the money to buy weapons and use them against us in the first place.

We're already bad guys, in the sense that we support unpopular regimes that ensure stability so we can get our oil. There's no point trying to look like nice guys, because we end up looking like hypocrites. So we might as well just be merciless and uncompromising all the way and simply force the Middle East to be our oil slaves.

Either that, or shut the fuck up, because nobody, not the Arabs, not the Europeans, and especially not the American people, is buying the "bring democracy and freedom to the Middle East" bullshit.

Posted by: natskvi at July 14, 2004 10:55 AM

I thought America was home of the free. How can this be true if we outlaw certain religions and people? I thought that was the whole point of this country, choice of religion, choice of opinion... freedom. Now you want to take it all away, well I say lets ban Christianity, and deport all of them too. They kill homosexuals. Of course then we have to kick out all the Jews because they are killing people in Israel and Palistine. But if we remove all the Abrahamic religions then we are discriminating so we will have to kick out all the people of any religion. Then we will have a country of atheists... and though I like that idea, it is not just. The only fair thing to do is allow everyone and anyone.

Posted by: MidniteZebra at July 14, 2004 11:12 AM

We already figured you out, blackstripes. please go elsewhere with your lies. Maybe you can get a job working for Michael Moore.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 11:22 AM

This incident proves even further that there is a need to stop any further immigration from any and all muslim countries. As I pointed out before muslims can NEVER be Americans because in order for them to be an American they must pledge to hold their citizenship above all else...including islam...and we all know that they could never do that.

The United States was not founded on the grounds of islam(thats why we are not living in the stone ages)...and indeed the muslims are using the freedom of religion to impose their death cult on others (ie in michigan). Perhaps it is time to extend the death penalty for things like this guy did, if the US keeps him taxpayers will have to support his sorry behind for years, if the US deports him to whatever hellhole he crawled out of he will once again be a threat to peace...plus it would send a message to other scum thinking of the same thing...I know its just wishful thinking.

Posted by: USAgirl at July 14, 2004 11:30 AM

Blackstripes... thats a new one. Do you have anything... useful to say? Or are you going to begin your bashing of me once more. Explain how freedom is up-held by limiting what one can do. That's all I ask.

Posted by: MidniteZebra at July 14, 2004 11:34 AM

I'm talking only about Islam, a DANGEROUS religion, that unlike Judaism and Christianity, advocates the use of violence in coercing conversion. Jews never tried to convert anyone to Judaism, and Christians have a tradition of converting peacefully (the Inquisition and the Dark Ages are the result of the corrupt Catholic church, which in many respects, remains a shitty institution to this day, and does not reflect on Christianity in general).

I actually think that some aspects of Islam are very effective and should be incorporated into Western law, such as cutting the dicks of rapists, and executing cold-blooded murderes, but as a system of governance, the Sharia sucks and has no mechanism of checks and balances, making it more vulnerable to corruption and tyranny. Besides, I don't feel like learning Arabic ever.

A democracy should be democratic to the extent that it can defend itself. There is no doubt that a point will be reached, shortly after a WMD attack on the U.S. which is definitely going to happen, after which all hell will break loose on the Muslims in the U.S. It's only a matter of time.

Posted by: natskvi at July 14, 2004 11:41 AM

Freedom comes with Responsibility Midnight. Responsibility limits freedom. Do you call Jihad responsible? Is cutting off a Bhuddist's head while he was out trimming trees, not offensive to any save for the fact that he Existed, resposible activity by a free people?

Muslims living in the US should UPHOLD the laws of the land, not allow jihadists to hide among them.

How's that for starters?

Freedom is Not free. Immigrating to Canada from the US as I am, I am quite aware of that.

You and yours will have to conquer the planet to stamp out that idea and replace it with the slavery you would subject us to - not that you have the slightest chance in Hell.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 11:42 AM

Well we all know very well that Sept 11 was carried out by MUSLIMS...and there are further threats against the US by MUSLIMS and the patriot act has put hundreds of MUSLIMS away for terror threats against the US and the guy caught on the plane was a MUSLIM...see a pattern forming here??

When one group..you guessed it MUSLIMS is a constant threat to the US (and everywhere else in the world) then the US has the right to put this group under survalience and limit certain activities....the inconveniences of a few are worth the lives of 100,000 US citizens. I know we will hear the same old tired "its not all muslims" and I am sure that is true, but we have waited for the voice of the "moderates" and have heard nothing but silence. When you have a community of over 5,000 muslims and only 2 dozen show up to protest a beheading (thompson NJ)...that speaks volumes (I bet muslims will say the other 4976 were what...shopping, cutting the lawn, washing the car..what?)

Muslims do not move around freely any longer, they are under suspicion wherever they go, and if they dont like that they only have their own people to thank.

Posted by: USAgirl at July 14, 2004 11:49 AM

Freedom is not free? You sound like a third-world dictator. I understand the whole responsibility thing... but what does that have to do with banning a religion? Do you deny that Christians kill homosexuals, if not, then they are just as bad... not to mention "witches and warlocks". I merely thought everyone was equal before the American law. That the sole individual is responsible for her actions. I do not condemn republicans nor democrats for what the U.S. Armed Forces have done to civilians in other countries. How is this different?

Posted by: MidniteZebra at July 14, 2004 11:52 AM

The backlash against muslims after the next attack will be horrific, and will effectively end their planned "infiltration" aims vis-a-vis the eventual takeover of American society.

Any massive attack will reduce their numbers further. We have the numbers to "bounce back"; they will be prevented from doing so.

Gary:

This muslim (MidniteZebra) is just trying to take the fight to you, to take the focus off his murderous satanic cult.

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 11:58 AM

Quote me ONE 3rd-world dictator who ever said that, Midnight. One.

I realize your islam-limited mind can't and won't grasp the obvious, Mightnight, but try this one.

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ksgpress/bulletin/spring2002/alumni/first_person.html

and the text:

Freedom Is Not Free

by Captain Russ Keller

September 11 was my son’s 13th birthday. Having missed exactly half of the first 12 birthdays in his childhood — including every one between ages 7 and 10 because the Navy had required my presence elsewhere — it felt good knowing this year our entire family would be together to mark an important milestone for our youngest member.

Missed birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays; extended overseas deployments; frequent moves — such are the sacrifices that shape the lifestyle of military families. They are borne day after day, year after year, in the bright spotlight of war and in the dim background of peacetime alike, not only by the service member, but also by his or her family. In the aggregate they foster a unique sense of community built around the concept of service. I have lived my entire adult life in this community.

In the last several years, op-ed pieces have begun warning of a growing split between the ethos of the military and the civilian society it serves. The unprecedented prosperity of the post-Desert Storm 1990s did much to validate such a split. Indeed, I would argue, by the end of the decade, public servants in general, and military members in particular, virtually disappeared from the focus of the country at large. America was transfixed by high-tech entrepreneurs and dot-com mania; when these shooting economic stars began fading we seemed content to argue over whether the federal budget surplus was $158 billion or $153 billion — and whose fault it was that these numbers were declining.

And then we all went to work on September 11.

As I was leaving for the Pentagon, I assured my son I would be home early that evening. It was a safe bet, I thought. Although both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees had finished marking up their versions of the Defense Authorization Bill, neither body was ready to go to the floor yet. I expected it would be a quiet day in the Navy’s Office of Legislative Affairs, my duty station since leaving command of a submarine in early 1999. As it turned out, I did, in fact, keep my promise to come home early. But my son will remember September 11, 2001, not only as the day he became a teenager, but also as the day the world changed forever.

There were many personal stories of bravery, heroism, or tragic irony that unfolded that fateful morning. Mine is not among them. I was in a meeting on one side of the building clockwise and two floors above where the plane hit the Pentagon. I felt the concussion of the impact; I saw through an interior-facing window the immediate plume of black smoke and a shower of sparks from ruptured electrical cables. I thought it was a bomb (an odd conclusion as I look back, given that I had just seen CNN footage of two planes flying into the World Trade Center towers). I did not see fire or smell smoke until I was outside. By that time emergency crews already were arriving, and America’s wealth of “better angels” — our servicemen and women, policemen, firemen, and countless “ordinary citizen” volunteers — were fast at work treating the injured, rescuing the trapped, and through their selfless actions transforming our nation’s sense of priorities.

Tragically, 124 dedicated public servants with whom I shared a workspace died on September 11. Amazingly, given the proximity of the plane’s impact to where some of my close friends and shipmates worked, I did not know any of the victims personally. That does not diminish the sense of loss I feel, because I know the lifestyle they lived. I know the sacrifices their families endured prior to September 11, and I struggle to comprehend how their families will overcome this great loss.

A few weeks ago I came across an article that appeared in the May 1997 edition of the U.S. Naval Institute’s Proceedings. Written to commemorate the 10th anniversary of a naval officer’s loss of four shipmates in a peacetime aviation accident, one passage is particularly poignant today:

“The military loses scores of personnel every year in training or operational accidents. Each one risked and lost his or her life for something they believed in, leaving behind friends, family, and shipmates to bear the burden and celebrate their devotion to our country....They knew the risks they were taking and gave their lives for something bigger than themselves. I’ll never forget them, and I’ll never forget the day I learned that freedom isn’t free.”

Those words were written by Commander Dan Shanower, a Navy intelligence officer. Dan was on duty in the Navy’s Command Center on September 11. He was among the 124 in the Pentagon who gave their lives for something bigger than themselves. The same can be said for the hundreds of police officers, fire fighters, and rescue personnel who lost their lives in New York City, and for the brave passengers of the airliner that crashed in western Pennsylvania. His or her story has touched every individual and group across America.

In the weeks that have followed this horrific attack, I am comforted that the virtue of service has been restored to a place of honor within our national value system. I am heartened that a sense of resolve and common purpose has, at least for now, gained the upper hand over tactical posturing and partisanship in our political discourse. I am proud that those who lead our nation and our cities have risen to the challenge and that a sophisticated public that knows these leaders possess both strengths and weaknesses has decided to rally its efforts on reinforcing the strengths rather than sniping at the weaknesses.

To the degree we can sustain this new national spirit I see cause for great optimism for the future of public service. Current demographics suggest one-third of our government workers will become retirement-eligible in the next five years. But who will step forward and take their place? Will the call go out publicly as a challenge to belong to something larger than self, or will it appear quietly as a growing list of jobs on the government’s “employment wanted” pages? Will those who respond be valued as dedicated public servants, or will they be derided as faceless government bureaucrats?

I suspect we will get what we ask for.

In each of my four tours in the Pentagon, I have been privileged to serve with incredibly talented and dedicated civilian members of the Department of Defense. In the last 33 months I have observed similar qualities among the members of the committee staffs in Congress with whom I deal. I am confident these outstanding public servants are not unique to the organizations where my responsibilities have overlapped. If September 11 showed us anything, it showed us that the foundation of a great nation is the collective goodness of its individual citizens. I sincerely hope the legacy of September 11 is a nation that sees greatness in service and honors those who seek to become part of something larger than themselves. Or, as Commander Dan Shanower would say, a nation that embraces the notion that freedom isn’t free.

Captain Keller MPA 1987 is a 1979 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy. His at-sea Navy career has been spent as a submariner, culminating in command of USS Springfield (SSN 761) from 1996 to 1999. He currently is the director of Naval Programs in the Navy’s Office of Legislative Affairs. He, his wife, Chris, daughter, Katie, and son, David, live in Annandale, Virginia, where the entire family quietly gave thanks and ate birthday cake a day late, on September 12.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 12:05 PM

CGW~ I know. I really should be working on my vows and speeches for my wedding, it is only 9 days away.

I just pray this scum's friends don't make a mess of things before then. After then. Ever!

But I know that won't be the case. They believe in freedom for themselves only.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 12:07 PM

I suspect that this evil man was escaping from France after participating in the vicious antisemitic attack on that young woman and her baby in Paris a couple of days ago. Certainly the calls for torture, death, and vengence that I see here recall those that you people posted after the alleged attack in Paris.

Oh, excuse me, that outrage turned out never to have happened, didn't it? It was just another hoax intended to incite hatred of innocent Muslims.

But back to the man on the airplane in Minneapolis. Of what horrible crime has he been convicted? Oh, he hasn't even been charged with any such crime? Well, no matter, torture and kill him anyway. And extend that punishment to any other Muslims that you can catch. Too bad that the schools aren't in session right now - you probably could seize a lot of Muslims at the elementary schools in Muslim neighborhoods. (Better not try the high schools - the older children might be too much for you brave people to handle.)

Well, why don't you brave people get out there and form your lynch mobs? It certainly is the thing all good Americans would do, right?

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 14, 2004 12:11 PM

Freedom is not free means that the freedoms that the US enjoys were bought with the blood of the brave men that faught for it. We now have a new threat to that freedom...islam...islam has NO freedom, you blindly follow, no room to question, barbaric sharia....it is the goal of islam to be a world religion (like that will ever happen). When "sole" individuals group together and kill in the name of religion then the gruop becomes suspect...it is getting harder for muslims to carry on that garbage about "peace" when more and more non mulsims are reading the koran and seeing the islamic agenda firsthand.

Where is the Christian church advocating the KILLING of homosexuals? I know that they feel that homosexuality is against Christianity (which I do not agree with based upon the fact that I doubt any person CHOOSES to be gay anymore than I CHOSE to be straight) besides gays are not strapping on bombs and killing innocent people, not flying planes into buildings, not violently trying to "convert" non gays.

I also cant remember any witches or warlocks threating the security of the US

Posted by: USAgirl at July 14, 2004 12:11 PM

From Zebra World: I thought America was home of the free. How can this be true if we outlaw certain religions and people? I thought that was the whole point of this country, choice of religion, choice of opinion... freedom.

Now you want to take it all away, well I say lets ban Christianity, and deport all of them too. They kill homosexuals. Of course then we have to kick out all the Jews because they are killing people in Israel and Palistine.
Posted by: MidniteZebra at July 14, 2004 11:12 AM

Back for another lesson I see. America is the land of the free.....home of the brave.

Christians kill homosexuals? Yet you continue to type away. Islam kills everyone non Islamic.

Jews: Killing Palestinians who try to kill them. Simple self-defense.

Allowing anyone and everyone does not include racists Muslims that want everyone converted to Islam or dead.....They're not welcome. I know, how bout you stop being such a Joseph and begin to type more intelligently. It's apparent that you're far out of your league in this forum.

Zebra, if you run in the daylight instead of at midnight, perhaps you won't take so many headers straight into trees, it's affecting your thought process.

This is beginning to look like Joseph in a Trojan Zebra outfit.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 14, 2004 12:14 PM

Even though you can't access it anymore, I'll still point out that Reza identifies herself in her email address as "rezareza666". Puts her comments in perspective, doesn't it?

Isn't she starting to sound a little shrill? I do believe I detect a note of panic in her postings. She must be starting to see that islam is doomed.

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 12:28 PM

MidniteZebra:

Muslims are religiously obligated to seek the overthrow of manmade law and government. Therefore, every country that has any Muslim population finds itself in the position of having to closely monitor that population.

Why don't you have a look at Singapore's Administration of Muslim Law Act?

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?&actno=Reved-3&date=latest&method=part

Here's some excerpts:

PART VIII
CONVERSIONS

Register of converts
126. The Majlis shall maintain a register of the names of all persons converted to the Muslim religion within Singapore, together with such particulars in respect of their conversion as may be prescribed by rule.

Control of conversion
127. No person shall be converted to the Muslim religion otherwise than in accordance with the Muslim law and the provisions of this Act or any rules made thereunder.

Report of conversion
128. Any Muslim who converts any person to the Muslim religion shall forthwith report such conversion to the Majlis with all necessary particulars.

Neglect or failure to report conversion
138. Whoever, being under a duty to report to the Majlis a conversion to the Muslim religion under the provisions of this Act, wilfully neglects or fails to do so shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

False doctrine
139. —(1) Whoever shall teach or publicly expound any doctrine or perform any ceremony or act relating to the Muslim religion in any manner contrary to the Muslim law shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both.

How would you like to live in Singapore, Midnite?

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 12:31 PM

MidniteZebra,

newbie to site, too lazy to hit the Shift key to CAP, and i can see and sense when someone just wants to be provocative. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever, but surely you can't be serious....?....(and I'm not calling you "Shirley").

we can and should rightfully outlaw whomever we want to keep out of this country. I'm an atheist, or rather a-religious, so it is not a matter of religion, per se. it is a matter of excluding a creed that is completely anathema to what makes America so special....blessed?...

i'm second generation American and assimilation is absolutely required for full participation in this experiment we call America. The vast majority of the non-muslim third world that washes onto these shores assimilates well (latin americans are teetering on the fence).

Use the example of the NYC italian community. They have a real sense of ethnic identity that is subordinated to their "american-ness". they pull their colors out for the san genarro festival and they gladly put it up until next year fully content that they have the freedom to do so peacefully.

To generalize greatly, muslims do not participate in this regard. you gotta be an honorable, loyal, kiss-the-ground-because i'm proud, and thankful for the right to be a free american before you are a muslim, catholic, buddhist, animist, atheist, or whatever your personal faith or lack thereof, is. With the latter as your creed you are then able to freely and without inhibition exercise your right to worship in peace.

My solution: completely disallow all immigration and long-term visa applications from countries that are classified as "muslim". This is purely a matter of survival.

Posted by: drisnya at July 14, 2004 12:44 PM

Why don't you justify Sharia law for me, Midnite?

Examples of Sharia law:

1. Offensive, military jihad against non-Muslims is a communal, religious obligation;
2. A person who is ignorant about Islamic legal opinion must follow the legal opinion of a scholar;
3. The penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death;
4. When slaughtering animals for food, a knife must be used to cut the windpipe and gullet;
5. A woman is only eligible to receive half the inheritance of a man;
6. Marriage may be forced on virgins by their father or father’s father;
7. A non-Arab man may not marry an Arab woman;
8. A woman must seek permission from her husband to leave the house;
9. A Muslim man cannot marry a woman who is a Zoroastrian, an idol worshipper, an apostate from Islam or a woman with one parent who is Jewish or Christian, with the other being Zoroastrian; a Muslim woman cannot marry anyone but a Muslim;
10. A free Muslim man may marry up to four women;
11. Retaliation is obligatory in most cases when someone is deliberately murdered except when a Muslim kills a non-Muslim, a Jew or a Christian kills a Muslim apostate or a father or mother kill their offspring;
12. Non-Muslim subjects (Ahl al-Dhimma) of a Muslim state are subject to a series of discriminatory laws – “dhimmitude”;
13. The penalty for fornication or sodomy is being stoned to death;
14. The penalty for an initial theft is amputation of the right hand. Subsequent thefts are penalized by further amputations of feet and hand;
15. A non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim in court; a person who is “without respectability” cannot give legal testimony; a woman’s legal testimony is only given half the legal weight of a man’s (and is only acceptable in cases involving property); to legally prove fornication or sodomy requires 4 male witnesses who actually saw the act;
16. The establishment and continuation of the Islamic Caliphate (by force, if necessary) is a communal obligation;
17. Sodomites and Lesbians must be killed;
18. Laughing too much is forbidden;
19. Musical instruments are unlawful;
20. Creating pictures of animate life is forbidden;
21. Female circumcision, which includes the excision of the clitoris, is obligatory;
22. Slavery is permitted;
23. People may be bribed to convert to Islam;
24. Beating a rebellious wife is permissible; and,
25. Lying is permissible in a time of war (or jihad).

Complete legal clauses and references for the above at:

http://boston.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/21475

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 12:53 PM

Midnite:

You can't fool us anymore Midnite. We've read the Qur'an, read the Sirat Rasul Allah, studied the Ahadith, studied the Sharia, know what is Sunnah and know the meaning of taqiyyah and kitman.

Thousands of religions have come and go, Midnite. Hardly anybody worships Odin, Zeus, Jupiter or Ra anymore. And guess what, in a few hundred years hardly anybody will worship Allah, either. Islam is on the way to the dustbin of history, Midnite. Get used to it.

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 1:14 PM

My Dear Reza,

Once again you make claims you cannot support, and then I will refute you, and you will slink away again, knowing that you are wrong. Such is your lot in life. You act the fool and are humiliated by Americans. Doesn’t that get tiresome?

So, on to the topic at hand.

A woman claims she was assaulted by Muslims, and it turns out the story was false. That is very important news, to be sure. Why, I cannot remember a time where a Muslim was accused of attacking someone, and it turned out to be false. Can you? Obviously, this is a great Islamic success story!

But speaking of attempts to incite hatred against “innocent” Islam, your man in Iraq Zarqawi has beheaded another innocent person guilty of trying to help the Iraqi people.

The Israelis must be paying him top dollar for the kind of worldwide disgust he has engendered against you. I see the forces of Zion were active in Baghdad again as well, killing several Iraqi Guardsmen trying to serve their country, as well as the requisite civilians. I’m sure your illustrious “freedom fighters” had nothing to do with this event either, right? It’s all on the Jews.

As to our new detainee, it seems he has been charged with entering the country illegally. I find that hard to believe, because I’m sure that in all 200+ wars caused by Muslims, when they invaded, they showed their passports to the border guards before they decapitated them. Muslims never break the law, you know.

Reza, I must confuse that you did make a mistake in one of your comments. You said that American’s don’t charge people before torturing and killing them. We always charge them before killing them. It keeps our lawyers busy. I’d like to ask though: what crime did you charge that pregnant Israeli woman and her small children with before you executed them? I’m sure it was with something quite logical, but somehow I missed that report.

As for your comments about seizing American Muslims in schools, you are obviously ignorant of what has already happened in America. We rounded up all of our Muslims long ago, every last man woman and child. They are currently in camps in Montana being reprogrammed to be rational human beings.

When your terr—um, freedom fighters come to the United States today and go to ground in “Muslim” communities in America, they are actually entering enclaves of CIA and Mossad agents. There are no Muslims left in America, Reza. They are all in the process of converting to Scientology. Why, we can’t even find enough Muslim-looking Hispanics and Indians to make it look believable anymore. I mean, we had to resort to a white guy to play the role of Ibrahim Hooper over at CAIR. Can you believe that?

Well I must run. I’ve got another lynching to attend to, you know.

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 14, 2004 1:15 PM

To the Mohammedan jihadis,

Your religion
is your politics,
your law, your society,
your way of life,
your master,
and you must submit,
your can't be free, to be,
for your god and his prophet
have taken your mind,
and now you are left behind
dependant on the infidels who are Free.

You give your god
a hundred names,
and none of them is love,
you don't understand
the name of god
cannot be named,
so you indulge in great heresy,
a contrary to the Truth.
what a shame, poor reza,
how sad, your way of life
only brings pain and strife
to all humanity.

And for these actions,
mohammedans will pay.

Posted by: the poetess at July 14, 2004 1:52 PM

Mr. Owens:

Your drivel is capable of humiliating only its author. You addressed nothing that appeared in my post, other than to attempt what even to you must have appeared a half-hearted justification of the unreasoning, hysterical, and biggoted reactions of you and your cohorts to the dispicable lies promulgated by the disturbed young woman in France.

You spent most of your silly rant thrashing about wildly about recent events in Iraq and attempting humerously to denigrate Muslims in the United States. As usual, your efforts consist almost entirely of juvenile ad hominem attacks on me rather than any serious attempt to address the issues I have raised.

You embarrass yourself by displaying a striking unfamiliarity with the most basic concepts of elementary logic. Might I suggest that your rather pathetic intellectual gifts might better be spent in cooperation with your henchman in the pagan numerological analysis of my e-mail address?

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 14, 2004 1:54 PM

I take it back. Someone is still worshipping Odin.

http://www.compulsiononline.com/freya.htm

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 1:54 PM

I just love being called a "henchman"!

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 2:09 PM

I have a different question for Midnight Zebra, on a subject the rest of you seem to have just tossed off.

"Do you deny that Christians kill homosexuals..."

Um, do you have any specific examples you'd like to point out? Not trying to deny per se, but it's not something I see in the papers everyday, so I was wondering exactly which Christian sect had made a major point out of killing homosexuals, or for that matter anybody else who disagreed with them.

Posted by: Walker Colt at July 14, 2004 2:17 PM

Walker~ Eeep! Be more specific about When, please. She'll bring up the Crusades again.

And my guess on christians (note the small 'c') killing homosexuals, is that those (small minds with no understanding of the Bible or what Jesus said), are usually drunk or local thugs of some sort. The kind of scum who would get in trouble anyway, and don't represent the nearly 100% of the rest of us. (Well, maybe 98%).

The funny thing is, Reza Can't quote the Bible in a claim that it Directs us to kill homosexuals (it doesn't, and never will), but the Koran (or un'holy' books associated with it), Does.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 2:24 PM

Midnight ZebREZA,

Stop warring against all religions. The Islamic cult is committing an exercise of futility, and running the ultimate fool's errand in warring against the far superior West.

Surely, you will all perish because of your blatant stupidity. This is a war you cannot possibly win, no matter how much you'd like to claim to be. You, Raisin, are only a small part of a problem, not a solution, and you'll eventually be smeared into the pavement for it.

All Muslim males between 12 and 45 should leave the United States. Call it profiling, because that's what I'm doing. Muslim males between the ages of 12 and 45 fit the appropriate profile for a murderous cut-throat thug.

It's proven almost on a daily basis. With regard to your post, Raisin, there is no need for any incitement to hate Islam or Muslims. Islam is a self-driven hate magnet, with no effort on our part necessary.

Muslims.....here is your fair warning-If the United States of America is attacked again, you will pay dearly for the actions of those you refuse to decry. The United States Government, Law Enforcement, and Diplomats will be unable to stop the fury that will be unleashed on all of you. You're not wanted here. The mistake of the century was allowing a single one of you into this country.

So consider yourselves duly warned. You will all pay the price. Remember this, 80 million Americans are firearms owners. 80 million. There are armed organizations that will defend this country from an attempt to overthrow the U.S. Government. The members of these organizations are several million in number.

You're out of your league. This isn't the sandpit. Saudi Arabia made the mistake of sending babies to get the beer.

All of the cheap talk and Islamochatter is sickening, because its empty. Attack again, and we'll laugh, watching all of you pay.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 14, 2004 2:29 PM

Gary,

Sorry about not being specific about when; I'm not interested in crusades or the inquisition, etc. I'm trying to get MZ to give me specific examples of said practice of Christians killing homosexuals. I'm tired of blanket statements - where's the proof?

Posted by: Walker Colt at July 14, 2004 2:35 PM

DC:

Your salutation - you figured it out! ;-)

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 2:38 PM

Zebra,

You are very tolerant of those who are not tolerant of you. Under islam the punishment for athiesm is death. Someone like Reza would saw your head off with a rusty knife, on video.

Here are a few fine islamic instructions, courtesy of prophetofdoom.net. :

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

And on, and on. The religion of decapitation wants to rule the world, and they are more than happy to kill you to speed the process. Go back and read some of Reza's threats from the past. Then come back and talk some more.

Posted by: basil at July 14, 2004 2:38 PM

basil:

MidniteZebra is a MUSLIM. Read my posts on the July 11 "Jihadists Cut Off Nose . . . " thread, toward the end of the thread (about 7/8 or so down, beginning with "Guys, guys:")

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 2:43 PM

basil:

Then follow the analysis to this thread.

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 2:44 PM

Hey Basil......lont time no see. Good to see U back.....CG Dub.....You have me confused.....help.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 14, 2004 2:50 PM

Wait wait wait wait... Reza has a multiple personality disorder?

Hmmm. That might also explain Mahommed, ney? Gabriel was just another side of himself...

No. Hmmm, rats. Can't do that. They could then claim it was another personality that took the 6-year-old for a wife, thereby leaving the central(?) personality free of sin... well, pedophilia anyway.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 2:52 PM

DC:

Check out the thread I cited for basil.

MidniteZebra is a poser.

Guess who is posing?

Gary's right on, although you unwittingly led him to it!

Posted by: CGW at July 14, 2004 2:54 PM

Reza:

Sometimes you almost seem sane.

How would you answer these questions:

Do you condone or condemn the Palestinians, Chechens, and Kashmiris who give up their lives to kill enemy civilians? Will you condemn by name as terrorist groups such organizations as Abu Sayyaf, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Groupe Islamique Armée, Hamas, Harakat ul-Mujahidin, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, and al-Qaida?

Should Muslim women have equal rights with men (for example, in inheritance shares or court testimony)? Is jihad, meaning a form of warfare, acceptable in today's world? Do you accept the validity of other religions? Do Muslims have anything to learn from the West?

Should non-Muslims enjoy completely equal civil rights with Muslims? May Muslims convert to other religions? May Muslim women marry non-Muslim men? Do you accept the laws of a majority non-Muslim government and unreservedly pledge allegiance to that government? Should the state impose religious observance, such as banning food service during Ramadan? When Islamic customs conflict with secular laws (e.g., covering the face for drivers' license pictures), which should give way?

Are Sufis and Shi'ites fully legitimate Muslims? Do you see Muslims who disagree with you as having fallen into unbelief? Is takfir (condemning fellow Muslims with whom one has disagreements as unbelievers) an acceptable practice?

Do you accept the legitimacy of scholarly inquiry into the origins of Islam? Who was responsible for the 9/11 suicide hijackings?

Do you accept enhanced security measures to fight militant Islam, even if this means extra scrutiny of yourself (for example, at airline security)? Do you agree that institutions accused of funding terrorism should be shut down, or do you see this a symptom of bias?

Do you accept that Western countries are majority-Christian and secular or do you seek to transform them into majority-Muslim countries ruled by Islamic law?

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 3:05 PM

MidniteZebra;
Please, State chapter and verse from the New Testament where Christians are commanded to kill Homosexuals.

Regards,
kc

Posted by: kc England at July 14, 2004 3:42 PM

How's Minnesota?

Posted by: DCWatson at July 14, 2004 3:46 PM

I think they should change the name from "War on Terror" to just calling it "21st Century Crusades". It would sound more cool to me, not to mention more realistic.

Posted by: CRUSADER2004 at July 14, 2004 4:03 PM

"Now you want to take it all away, well I say lets ban Christianity, and deport all of them too. They kill homosexuals. Of course then we have to kick out all the Jews because they are killing people in Israel and Palistine."

MidnightZebra, you are a lying liberal, Christians do NOT kill homosexuals, Muslims kill homosexuals. Please educate yourself before opening your big liberal mouth. I suggest you read the below:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw100990224118B232&set_id=1

Posted by: abad at July 14, 2004 4:05 PM

Dearest Reza,

Did I strike a nerve? I was only trying to emulate your normal style of making an outrageous claim and supporting it with an obvious lie. I’m sorry if borrowing that style offended you.

I re-read your post to see what points you were making so that I could address them, but had a hard time finding one. While you make your normal outrageous claim regarding more anti-Muslim hoaxes and back it up with an obvious lie on how we practice widespread genocide in the form of lynching, I didn’t find much of a point to refute.

As for my own “unreasoning, hysterical and bigoted reaction,” I think pointing out your recent cultural history provides a very valid argument, Reza. If you pick only an isolated event, it can and should be regarded as an aberration.

This is clearly what happened in the case of this young woman in France. People are beaten by Muslim thugs so often in modern-day European slums as to not make the news any more there. But since for once the victim lied and Muslims were actually innocent of a crime they were accused of, that is what made the news. The fact that they were innocent was the newsworthy event.

The reason this hoax is an aberration is told not only in your recent European cultural history, but in its long-term global context.

From the very first days of Mohammed’s youth as an armed thief in the deserts of Arabia, thuggish behavior has gone hand-in-hand with Islam. As a result, Islam has started more wars of conquest, and massacred more non-combatants, than any culture in the recorded history of mankind. Would you care to debate these two facts?

I don't need to make up lies about Islam.

Your own history denigrates Islam. I add only commentary. When you are willing to debate specific facts, I think you’ll find I have enough elementary logic to acquit myself quite well.

Until then, stick to your outrageous claims and obvious lies. Other than teaching your children to blow themselves up, it is what you do best.

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 14, 2004 4:06 PM

If any terror attack occurs here in the United States again........believe me, there will be so much violence against muslims that they will all run to Canada. That is if they can make it out of their mosques before the flames envelop them!!!

Posted by: CRUSADER2004 at July 14, 2004 4:10 PM

Crusader2004,

Go back and read your history. You are way off in your assertion.

Also, once you grow up, you'll learn that war, while sometimes necessary, is always heart-wrenching and far from "cool."

Join the Marines. Go out and end a life. Get up close and personal to the person you just killed. Smell the blood and realize you have ended everything that person was, and everything they ever stood to be. Look into his vacant eyes, eyes that will see no more of his mother, his wife, his child.

Then tell me how "cool" war is.

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 14, 2004 4:21 PM

Hey great ! That crazy man/woman/thing Reza is back with her/his side-splitting "allah akbar (may the bird of paradise fly up his nose)" routine. It's great hearing all that Arabian Nights / Dark Ages stuff (are they called the Dark Ages because that's when Islam started ?) But seriously people wise up to Reza's hilarious anti-Islamic double game. He/she/it only comes up with this stuff to show the uncommitted how brain-washed Muslims really are. He/she/it's doing a grand job too - i bet 99% of visitors to this site now have a lower opinion of Islam then before because of her/his/it's ludicrous comments. This one could run and run - how about a syndicated column or radio show Reza ?
We could call it "Letter From The Middle Ages" or "Notes From the Cult That Time Forgot". You go girl ! (or boy or whatever)

Ali akbar (may the wind of a thousand camels spread his word)

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 14, 2004 4:22 PM

In an ideal World with good people, yes, there is NO problem with a person's religion. However, since Islam openly avows its intentions on the West, this is an open declaration against every Western Civilian. THIS IS A WAR SITUATION.Do Muslims really believe we are so soft and stupid that we will allow them to take over our countries, destroy our civilization, replace our laws by Sharia???

Posted by: Morgane at July 14, 2004 4:58 PM

Reza:

I don't get it. You pretend to understand Western modes of thought. You even use the phrase ad hominem. I must admit that I was shocked by this display of book learning. So, you obviously have some kind of education. What's the problem, then? Why won't you address the eminently reasonable questions that I put to you?

You know, we aren't all raving religious bigots here. Despite my obvious dislike of Islam, my bottom line for acceptance of Muslims is that they disavow violent jihad against non-muslims and the institutions of dhimmmitude as relate to non-Muslims. I could care less what ablutions you perform, how you wipe your bum and all that stuff. That is your business. What I care about is freedom of conscience and non-violence.

You don't have to give on much. You don't seem me raving about the Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Scientology, the Raelians, etc. because they pose no threat to my existence.

Think about it Reza. Why do we have such a problem with Islam? Why are we spending so much time on this website, posting about your religion? Why arent' there websites devoted to the destruction of Scientology or the Jehovah's Witness? Think about it. You have intelligence apparently. Open your mind. Take off the blinkers.

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 5:54 PM

Son Of Albion said, “…But seriously people wise up to Reza's hilarious anti-Islamic double game. He/she/it only comes up with this stuff to show the uncommitted how brain-washed Muslims really are. He/she/it's doing a grand job too - i bet 99% of visitors to this site now have a lower opinion of Islam then before because of her/his/it's ludicrous comments…”

Wait a minute, are you telling me that reza is a fake??? Now that takes all the fun out of it. I am truly disappointed and depressed. Where will I get my inspiration? How will I come up with bumper sticker sayings? Who will I denigrate? Oh well… God willing there will be another, more powerful reza and he/she will also be part of the Borg (swt).

“Your grandchildren will be inspirations to exmuslims everywhere.”

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at July 14, 2004 6:12 PM

I must say that I am becoming increasingly concerned with the sheer volume of the hatred and anger displayed here. I understand that most of you fear Muslims to a degree that can only be described as pathological, and that your response to that terror is to strike out with threats and abuse, but surely you must realize that your reactions are not helpful to your own mental health.

I have tried to provide a voice of calm and rationality here and have done my best to allay your fears. I have repeatedly called you to Islam and have tried to point out the reality of the current relationship between Islam and the West. I seek no thanks or reward for my efforts in this regard - dawa is an obligation for all Muslims and in my own humble way I have tried to meet that obligation.

I am not surprised at your reactions to my poor attempts to show you the truth. As is pointed out repeatedly in the Quran and in many authentic Hadiths, this is the reaction that is to be expected from unbelievers. I will not lose hope, however, and I remain strong in my faith that Allah (swt) will guide at least some of you on the straight path.

Some of you have pressed me for answers to many questions about Islam. I am not an Islamic scholar, and so am not prepared to debate the finer points of Islam with unbelievers. There are several web sites that are maintained by respectible Islamic organizations, and of course there are no doubt one or more mosques conveniently near to you. Please direct your questions there.

I know that this is an extremely difficult time for those of you who are Christians and Jews. Your Western "civilization" is almost literally crumbling before your very eyes, and Islam is on the march everywhere. Please believe me when I tell you that you have nothing to fear. Soon all mankind, including yourselves, will be sheltered by the wings of the worldwide Islamic Caliphate. All of your corrupt, unjust, man-made laws and systems of government will be swept away and replaced by Allah's (swt) divinly ordained Sharia.

Please consider that now is the time to embrace Islam and live lives of peace and joy by obeying the commands of Almighty Allah (swt), the Merciful and Compassionate Creator (swt) of the universe.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim.

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 14, 2004 6:50 PM

Reza, don't you ever get tired of repeating the same old lies, day after day?

Do you really think you will distract us from spreading the truth?

That invitation to a pork-rib dinner still stands. My latest barbeque sauce had more Cayenne pepper in it- nice bite to the taste!

Mashed potatos with Garlic... carrots...

And some Labatt's Blue.

Posted by: Gary at July 14, 2004 6:59 PM

Hey Reza (may the moon god light up your life),
i just have to say how brilliant your last post was. It was one of the best parodies of Islamic insanity I've ever read. I laughed so much I almost had a coughing fit. How do you do it. You take that "Almighty, compassionate Ali (the blessings of a thousand mullahs be upon him)" mumbo-jumbo and really make it sound exactly like the kind of stuff a real brainwashed Muslim fanatic would come out with. It's wonderful having someone with such a comedic touch on our side.Do you ever do stand-up ? I'd love to see your act.

Anyway , looking forward to your next mirth-making effort,

May your grandchildren be great comedians too.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 14, 2004 7:43 PM

RezaSatanAhriman666 said:

"Your grandchildren will be Muslim.

Allahu akbar"

ad nauseum

Why don't you change your id to "I'm a broken record"?

Posted by: abad at July 14, 2004 8:54 PM

Dear Reza, please don't pontificate
On the glories of Islam's great Caliphate.
It was marred by much war,
Family plotting, and gore.
History provides the certificate!

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 14, 2004 10:02 PM

My grandchildren will be playing Cowboys and muslims.

Posted by: khamr at July 14, 2004 10:27 PM

Drisnya:

As an American Christian proud of six years' service to my country (as a diplomat rather that a warrior), I can't agree that we should put our patriotism above our piety.

Even the mad infidel Tom Jefferson recognized that rights are given by the CREATOR, not the state or monarch or general will or even the consensus of a crowd of angry bluestockings.

I'm of pretty recent immigrant stock, too--much of it from a country with a narrow, arrogant nationalism that exalted itself over all other things, and made life pretty miserable for its minorities.

In America, I embraced a Puritan tradition which understood that the Write of King Jesus trumps that of King James VI and I; that law rather than the will of the leader is politically supreme; and that political associations are compacts, not sacred, eternal orders. When James told the Puritans "I will harry you out of the land" at the Hapton Court Conference of 1604, my country was conceived (the Plymouth plantation followed 16 years later). When the mad infidel Tom Jefferson spoke of our CREATOR as the giver of rights he, even if he didn't acknowledge it, was standing on the shoulders of that tradition.

Without the "under God" clause, I cannot in good conscience say the Pledge of Allegiance, and counsel my son against saying it. BUT this isn't because I gloat and cheer when bombs explode killing innocents, or despise the republic I served and its people: it's because a piece of cloth cannot command the sort of allegiance that a rational creature must render to God alone. Now, this God, in the book of Jeremiah, commands me to pray for the peace of the community in which I live, even if it's full of a heathen people; his book also shows me men who served unbelieving rulers well (Joseph and Daniel), rulers who gave them a lot fewer rights than America gives me (Daniel, given the practices of the time, was probably made a eunuch when hauled out of 'eretz Yisrael and put in the service of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon). But, the point of the fact is, that God, not a piece of cloth, commands our highest allegiance.

If America leaves itself open to the renewing and reviving influences of the Holy Spirit, it will stand a long time (and THIS is what I pray for!). If America chooses to fall for either the proud, self-important fools who would outlaw the Bible as hate speech or exalts a state made up of mere mortals as humanity's highest, ultimate good, America will surely go the way of Pharaonic Egypt, Babylon, Media-Persia, Macedon, and Rome--and it might just be the suicidal young Muslims with distrubing stuff in their luggage who will turn our republic into another desert-surrounded slum from which the wealth has been sucked out of productive dhimmi by a parasitic, luxury-intoxicated ruling class (that's your First Four Caliphs, Reza).

Interestingly enough, the term raiyeh, which the Turks (following Arabic) used to describe a dhimmi community, means "flock". Hence, a Muslim rulership takes over a dhimmi area, expoloits it to the hilt, and sucks every bit of wealth and productivity out of it. When the exhausted dhimmi are milked dry, their rulers then whine and howl in helpless bewilderment, and then butcher the same people who made their wealth possible.

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 14, 2004 10:33 PM

Reza :

If you are worried about the volume of hatred and anger displayed here...you will be chewing your nails to the knuckle with worry for your fellow muslims after the next islamic terror attack on US soil...dont worry about here, these are just words...worry for muslims after the next attack..their lives will never be the same...remember the backlash after 9-11...that will look like a day at Disney compared to what is in store...no threats just facts...President Bush try as he may will not stop it this time, "moderates" have had their chance to be heard, to turn in terrorists and have failed...if anyone should be praying there is not another terror attack it is muslims.

Posted by: USAgirl at July 14, 2004 10:47 PM

"I must say that I am becoming increasingly concerned with the sheer volume of the hatred and anger displayed here. I understand that most of you fear Muslims to a degree that can only be described as pathological, and that your response to that terror is to strike out with threats and abuse, but surely you must realize that your reactions are not helpful to your own mental health."

Can you give us some good reasons not to fear Muslims. Your responses aren't helping I am afraid.

"I have tried to provide a voice of calm and rationality here and have done my best to allay your fears. I have repeatedly called you to Islam and have tried to point out the reality of the current relationship between Islam and the West. I seek no thanks or reward for my efforts in this regard - dawa is an obligation for all Muslims and in my own humble way I have tried to meet that obligation."

Your idea of Da'wa is pathetic. You should study Yaha Emerick in that regard. He has a much better idea of how to do Da'wa. Just simply offering us the choice to either convert to Islam or become part of the Muslim social order is not Da'wa. It is an example of the irrational behaviour of Muslims that drives Westerners up the wall.

"I am not surprised at your reactions to my poor attempts to show you the truth. As is pointed out repeatedly in the Quran and in many authentic Hadiths, this is the reaction that is to be expected from unbelievers. I will not lose hope, however, and I remain strong in my faith that Allah (swt) will guide at least some of you on the straight path."

Your "poor attempts to show us the truth"? You are not kidding. You aren't even willing to engage us in that regard; you haven't even attempted us to "show" us the truth. You mean to say that you have no thoughts of your own? You cannot think for yourself? This attitude is why so many Westerners refer derisively to Muslims as "Mobots".

"Some of you have pressed me for answers to many questions about Islam. I am not an Islamic scholar, and so am not prepared to debate the finer points of Islam with unbelievers. There are several web sites that are maintained by respectible Islamic organizations, and of course there are no doubt one or more mosques conveniently near to you. Please direct your questions there."

Again, you do not have a single thought of your own?

"I know that this is an extremely difficult time for those of you who are Christians and Jews. Your Western "civilization" is almost literally crumbling before your very eyes, and Islam is on the march everywhere. Please believe me when I tell you that you have nothing to fear. Soon all mankind, including yourselves, will be sheltered by the wings of the worldwide Islamic Caliphate. All of your corrupt, unjust, man-made laws and systems of government will be swept away and replaced by Allah's (swt) divinly ordained Sharia."

When you say things like this, you come across as delusional, even insane. Is this the impression that you really want to leave us with?

Please consider that now is the time to embrace Islam and live lives of peace and joy by obeying the commands of Almighty Allah (swt), the Merciful and Compassionate Creator (swt) of the universe.

My answer to this paragraph? Give me liberty or give me death.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim.

You are delusional.

Why don't you try thinking for yourself, Reza? You are being rude to Allah by not using the gifts that he/she has given you. Allah has given you so much and you ignore his/her gifts.

Posted by: Mentat at July 14, 2004 10:51 PM

Gary....all my best wishes for you on your upcoming marriage.

Mentat....Congratulations to you for discovering the beauty of Wednesday. How fitting that it should occur on a Wednesday.

Posted by: Afrafaste at July 14, 2004 10:58 PM

Jihadwatchers,
I just want to thank you guys so much for giving me endless hours of insight and amusement in this forum. I am new to this forum or at least new to participating in it. I found you by reading articles in faithfreedom.org. If you are unfamiliar with it, check it out. It is a website devoted to leading muslims out of their faith...perhaps you should recommend it to Reza and Midnight! I may not be able to keep up with you guys intellectually, but I am contributing in my own small way to informing others of the lie, 'Islam is A Religion of Peace'. I send aticles to a small group of friends. Hopefully, they send them on to others

Posted by: Bailey at July 15, 2004 9:48 AM

Bailey:

Welcome! Glad to have you in this fight with us!

Posted by: CGW at July 15, 2004 9:56 AM

kepha1,

great post, although i disagree. the vast majority of the founders were deists....not exactly bible thumping born-agains if you know what i mean. There's a reason they put "endowed by the Creator..." They didn't want a repeat of the Old World. the Founders were renaissance men; very enlightened individuals.

the point i was trying to make, probably ineffectively, is that your primary focus/loyalty must be to America because by protecting her (America) you will have the rights to worship, or not worship, as you desire.

i have two siblings who are born-again and absofrigginlutely bore me to tears. i want to chug a quart of drano when i'm around them longer than an hour, however i say you are free to diddle in whatever blows your hair back without fear of retribution solely because the entity of America exists; not because of some silly manna from heaven hitting you in the head like a brick. (sorry canadians here. i don't know enough about you to rationally comment save for the fact that you have a terrible islamic infestation as well, and our country's friendship is becoming increasingly tepid)....

i don't believe as you believe and that is perfect because i'm free to do so. we all can spout anything we want about islam and the fifth column muslim infestation of our country because of American freedom....not as a result of some nebulous writings by semi-literates completely ignorant in reason and scientic knowledge from 2000 years ago. i wish all freedom loving, anti-islam believers and non-believers nothing but peace. i want peace with muslims as well, but they keep coming around kicking sand in our faces and they conform to a creed completely antithetical to freedom and right reason. enough for now.

Posted by: drisnya at July 15, 2004 11:55 AM

Thanks for the response, Drisnya. It seems that while you're fed up with your devout sibs, you at least seem to appreciate the fact that no Evangelicals are waving swords or guns at people in order to get them to convert.

I'll admit I've got people near and dear to me who are into every anti-Christian radicalism that comes along, which makes them very, very interesting--especially when the inevitable day comes when they have to admit that Southeast Asian Communism was bloddy-minded and vicious; that Castro's revolution didn't unleash great productive forces; blahblahblah; that abortion does indeed kill people who are simply inconvenient; blahblahblah. They're also the ones who tell me Marxism-Leninism failed because it was first applied to stupid Slavic Uentermenschen in Russia (never mind that it also turned lands inhabited by Protestant Germans into a poor country called the Deutsche Demokratische Republik)while blithely accusing me of being a racist every time I express scepticism about the latest Third World "revolution".

Now for the so-called "enlightenment". Frankly, the surge of Islamofascists infesting the West is a Jeffersonian and "Rights of Man" chicken
coming home to roost. By making liberty the highest good rather than an instrument towards higher ends (such as godliness), the enlightenment state throws itself wide open to potential subverters. The See-no-evil, Hear-no-evil, Speak-no-evil attitude towards Islam (as towards Communism in an earlier era) found among so many on the Left is precisely the thing that lets the Islamofascists contemptuously look at the present-day West as a plum for the picking.

Further, as for the supremacy of the state, if there is anything that history teaches it is that states rise and fall. This is why I cannot buy into an Amerika ueber Alles mentality--even if I love my country and back politicians who will fight against those who attack it.

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 15, 2004 11:03 PM

By the way, Drinya, we aren't deficient in reason. It could be the case that Messrs. Voltaire, ROusseau, and Jefferson were willfully blind to what reason really is.

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 15, 2004 11:05 PM