Ok. This one is getting emailed to Any and Every Canadian newspaper and/or reporter I can find online.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 7:23 AM

Do you mean Mufti Ebrahim Desai and fellow Muslim
clerics want to spread Islam by fire and sword for
philanthropic purposes? Nah! I'm not buying it, how about you other Infidels....

Posted by: Morgane at July 15, 2004 8:04 AM

"thus saving them from the Fire of Jahannum"

Fire of Jahannum? Don't you just love it when these Muslim hypocrites plagerise other people's religion yet, at the same time, deny the meaning of the original?

Jahannum = Gehinnom, Gehinnom is Hebrew for the Vally of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom is the valley that runs adjacent to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and was the place where the offal and waste from the *Jewish* sacrefices in the *Jewish* Temple in Jerusalem were burnt. In due course, Gehinnom became a visualisation of the Greek concept of Hades, and synonimous with Hell in Christianity. However, although Judaism does talk about Gehinnom as a kind of purgatory, it does not have any real concept of Hell, believing all souls go to heaven. With everyone trying to destroy us Jews know hell is here on earth.

Although they don't know it, when Islam talks of Jahannum it acknowledges the Jewish Temple and the Jews' claim on Jerusalem.

Posted by: Tziona at July 15, 2004 8:24 AM

A simular question was asked on another one of those (hugely entertaining) 'Ask the Imam' sites, which gained an even more militant response;

Islam Q&A

Regards fellow Infidels,
kc

Posted by: kc England at July 15, 2004 9:19 AM

About ten years ago, Daniel pipes wrote an article "The Muslims are comming, the Muslims are comming). In this he made a case that the eternal bogey man of Europe was coming and that among other things, the Muslims were harder to integerate than other newcomers.Their customs and resistance to change would be causing disruptions to Western societies the world over.

Fast foreward, 2004 and what do we see? Well for starters, the Muslim populatiions in every European city has mushroomed. Crime from these newcomers has gotten worse and amputations, gang rapes and other imports from Muslim societies is being seen with increasing frequency. Call me a fool, a biggot a xenophobe, but it seems abundantly clear that if Europe does not reverse engines now and change course, it too will fall to the Islamic sword.

Why have this remarkable group of believers been able to bamboozle almost the entire world into beleiving in their peaceful intentions, when history and the current 50+ major world conflicts which involve Islam, show otherwise?

How on Earth is it that despite the Saudi culpability in the spread of the "True" Islam,(Wahabbi) in every capitol of the Western world, there are millions who refuse to believe that Islam is simply following a course set 14 centuries ago in the Arabian desert.

Islam is spreading everywhere around us and to me it seems clear that by hook or crook, they will conquer the world starting first in France then Europe. The USA will be forced to respond, but with the current generation of Americans who have been indoctrinated by the multi-culturists, America will surrender its culture very quickly to the growing population of Islamists.

The West is being colonized while Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, remain unchanged. While we freely build mosques all over the Western world, and allow huge numbers of Muslims in, we can not long endure this watering down and dumbing down of our societies.

Spain is in the news today because it is beleived the Spanish authorities have ignored the Main Mosque where the March 11th attackers prayed. Why has Spain decided to forget its Muslim conquest, then reconquest? Are the mad? Do they beleive that modernity and tolerance can change the minds of Muslims who are programmed by the tennents of their faith to conquer, convert, and kill in necessary?

While we loose our faith, they only seem to get stronger and bolder. They have designs of the world and the damage may be too late for us to stop.

The great church in Turkey, which, is now a great Mosque, or the absolutely huge numbers of Muslims in France, or the construction of Mosques everywhere, the largest in Italy, show that either we come to our senses or there will be the final conquest of Europe.

Two possible avenues of conquest would be a Hitleresque assumption of power by the political process, or outright London-Blitz like revolution by Muslims or Christians who resist. But the end is clear, we are seeing all the signs of a war between Islam and the West and we are totally hampered in this war because we cannot see the enemie's true face, even as it stares at us.

How can we win when we are importing the enemy into our cities? How can we respond to the feckless politicians (You know many) who seem to get an emotional charge of warm and fuzzy feelings helping every Islamic cause you can think of including letting hijackers remain in the UK, allowing no real discourse on Islam to inform their opinions (Religion of peace), (Beheadings are an abberation in Islam) etc.

It seems that we will lose this war, we hate ourselves and have no apparent self respect. Until they allow Christians into their countries (Of course no Christian would go and until we can build churches there - never), then we should stop all the baloney of tolerance and PC and Multiculturism NOW AND BEGIN WITH IMMIGRATION REFORM IN EUROPE AND IN AMERICA AND IN AUSTRALIA.

Or, as Islam is certainly bent on world domination, we can fight them later which we will have to do because as I see there is immense derilection of duty everywhers from the Church and government on down to individual families.

But when the time comes that all freedom loving people start to see the slow gradual infringement (No criticism of Islam, special treatment of Muslims in schools, places of employment, Islamic holidays and prayers on Fridays played on a minnerete loudspeaker),then the eventual introduction of Islamic law then what? Should we tolerate that too?

I wish we had a sense of what's at stake here. But we are more interested in perverting our culture with vacous a-moral junk culture and the morality of the post Christian age where we fool ourselves and ignore the consequences of our actions.

France, it is said, is taking all the necessary steps to accelerate its own Islamification because it sees an Islamic fututre for Europe. This, Charles Krauthammer says may explain its seeming obstructionism of Afganistan and Iraq.- they want to be on what Chirac sees as the right side of history, what a PIMP. If it is as Bat Yeor says, France that instigated the EAD which resulted in the mess we plainly see here, than God help France. They stand a good chance of becoming the first Western country in modern history to officially change its religion from Christianity to Islam. I believe France is the mine canary. Lets see what an Islamic European country has to offer.

Hope I didn't "offend" anyone, but when Muslims take over, that will be the least of your problems.

/RANT

Posted by: Andrew at July 15, 2004 9:46 AM

What I'd really like to know is what category I fall under: I only started to be against islam when I realised that islam was completely against me and all the people I know and love , and that it is a danger to and enforces hatred upon my people and my country.I never had anything at all against islam and muslims before this and I most certainly am not rascist.So the actual truth of the matter is that islam has made an enemy out of me (and all sane brits) rather than vice versa.I never asked for a multi-cultural society, I never asked to be put into the same school as people who want me and my kind converted or dead.I never asked our politicians to let thousands of muslim asylum seekers into this country costing the tax payers millions every year, but it is me who is an infidel, it is me who should accept them into my society even though they don't even try to make themselves acceptable.And it is me who is rascist for speaking out against these people.That is why I am against islam , because I am forced to be , and because to think of them in any other way would be suicidle and insane.
I assume when the guy in this article says "Does it mean that we have to attack even those non-muslims which don't do anything against islam....." he means countries,cultures,races and religions that are not in some kind of conflict or another with an islamic nation or a population of muslims within a certain nation. Well ; just because I am british (and the second largest coalition force in Iraq is british) shouldn't make me a direct enemy of all muslims everywhere, I didn't make the decision to send british troops to Iraq, I'm part of neither the UK government or army so how does that make me an enemy of islam, then on the flip-side of the same coin we may have a neutral country such as say Germany who despite having no troops in Iraq, and it's government being directly against such action, may;and most likely does have, many members of it's population who despise islam and it's ideals as do I .Yet in the eyes of a man thinking with the rationale of the imam in the above article makes Germany nontheless-- what???-- a friend of islam????I don't think so!!!After all Germany is part of Europe, automatically making the the krauts an enemy of islam

Back in my school days I had nothing against islam per sae other than the fact that the muslims at our school barely acknowledged the existence of the white and black kids, and used to stand together in gangs talking in either arabic or punjabi, which sort gives you the idea that trying to communicate , even just greeting them out of common curtosy, was pretty much futile.I would have stayed so neutral even if I had to deal with this kind of unfriendly ignorance every day had I not seen the true colours of islam.
Now I really despise islam and it's entire culture, not necessarily the people who have been brain-washed by it, and the women who are trapped in it , just the religion and the monsters it has created.

The rationale of this imam just prooves we are right to be against islam. Now some one a little more liberal minded would probably argue that I am being hypocritcal in my tarring all muslims with the same brush , just the same as I have just been criticising them for doing to Europeans and Americans. But we are talking about one religion, with strict laws , which are followed and obeyed to the word by it's obsessively devout followers, whereas Americans and Europeans are multi-cultural and multi-religious and are a free world where freedom of speech is encouraged and opinions are varied on a massive scale.Work it out your selves.

Posted by: Rikki at July 15, 2004 9:55 AM

Ok, anyone who is interested go Here:

http://www.canlaw.com/media/emailed.htm

That should be the page containing nearly 200 email addresses for news agencies / reporters all across Canada.

I copied it out, had to remove all spaces and returns, and then it took me three emailings to fit all the addresses in. 4 addresses bounced but I haven't gone back to find them yet.

I have also sent letters to the editors of half a dozen papers across the country. This however takes longer as you have to fill out a submission form each time. Those newspaper links can also be found on the site I listed.

From now on, I have that list and will make use of it whenever Canada comes into the equation.

And now I must get back to my vows. Jenn is almost done hers and I have 5 more lines to figure.

Go Get these guys!

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 9:58 AM

"Internet Toolbox for Islam-critics":

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661

Posted by: Ali Dashti at July 15, 2004 9:58 AM

The mainstream media never reports it when the Canadian government criminalizes a Muslim charity. So, in the interests of assisting Muslims who do not want to become criminals, here is the list of Muslim charities to which you should not give Zakat (courtesy of CSIS):

http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp

Listed entities

This webpage has been prepared for reference only. Users should consult the Acts as passed by Parliament, which are published in the "Assented to" Acts service, Part III of the Canada Gazette and the annual Statutes of Canada, and the regulations, as registered by the Clerk of the Privy Council and published in Part II of the Canada Gazette, available in most public libraries or on the Internet at http://canadagazette.gc.ca/.

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (July 23, 2002).

Armed Islamic Group (GIA) (also known as Groupe islamique armé)

Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC) (also known as Groupe salafiste pour la prédication et le combat)

Al Jihad (AJ)(aka Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ))

Vanguards of Conquest (VOC)

Al Qaida

Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (AGAI)(aka Islamic Group, (IG))

Al-Ittihad Al-Islam (AIAI)
The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (November 27, 2002).

Islamic Army of Aden (IAA) (also known among other names as the Islamic Army of Aden-Abyan (IAAA), the Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (AAIA), Aden Islamic Army, Islamic Aden Army, Muhammed's Army / Army of Mohammed and the Jaish Adan Al Islami).

Harakat ul-Mudjahidin (HuM) (also known among other names as Al-Faran, Al-Hadid, Al-Hadith, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Harakat ul-Mujahideen, Harakat al-Mujahideen, Harkat-ul-Ansar, Harakat ul-Ansar, Harakat al-Ansar, Harkat-ul-Jehad-e-Islami, Harkat Mujahideen, Harakat-ul-Mujahideen al-Almi, Holy Warriors Movement, Movement of the Mujahideen, Movement of the Helpers, Movement of Islamic Fighters and Al Qanoon).

Asbat Al-Ansar ("The League of Partisans") (also known among other names as Osbat Al Ansar, Usbat Al Ansar, Esbat Al-Ansar, Isbat Al Ansar and Usbat-ul-Ansar).

Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) (also known among other names as Islamic Jihad Palestine (IJP), Islamic Jihad - Palestine Faction and Islamic Holy War).

Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) (also known among other names as Jaish-i-Mohammed (Mohammad, Muhammad, Muhammed), Jaish-e-Mohammad (Muhammed), Jaish-e-Mohammad Mujahideen E-Tanzeem, Jeish-e-Mahammed, Army of Mohammed, Mohammed's Army, Tehrik Ul-Furqaan, National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty and Army of the Prophet).

Hamas (Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamiya) ("Islamic Resistance Movement")

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (December 11, 2002).

Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) (also known among other names as Kurdistan Workers Party, Partya Karkeren Kurdistan, Kurdistan Labor Party, Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress, KADEK, Kurdistan People's Congress, Kurdistan Halk Kongresi (KHK), People's Congress of Kurdistan, Kongra-Gel).

Hizballah (also known among other names as Hizbullah, Hizbollah, Hezbollah, Hezballah, Hizbu'llah, The Party of God, Islamic Jihad (Islamic Holy War), Islamic Jihad Organization, Islamic Resistance, Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine, Ansar al-Allah (Followers of God/Partisans of God/God's Helpers), Ansarollah (Followers of God/Partisans of God/God's Helpers), Ansar Allah (Followers of God/Partisans of God/God's Helpers), Al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Islamic Resistance), Organization of the Oppressed, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of Right Against Wrong and Followers of the Prophet Muhammed).

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (February 12, 2003).

Abu Nidal Organization (ANO) (also known among other names as Fatah Revolutionary Council, Revolutionary Council, Revolutionary Council of Fatah, Al-Fatah Revolutionary Council, Fatah-the Revolutionary Council, Black June, Arab Revolutionary Brigades, Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims, Black September, Egyptian Revolution, Arab Fedayeen Cells, Palestine Revolutionary Council and Organization of Jund al Haq).

Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) (also known among other names as Al Harakat Al Islamiyya (AHAI), Al Harakat-ul Al Islamiyya, Al-Harakatul-Islamia, Al Harakat Al Aslamiya, Abou Sayaf Armed Band (ASAB), Abu Sayaff Group, Abu Sayyef Group and Mujahideen Commando Freedom Fighters (MCFF)).

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (April 2, 2003).

Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI) (also known among other names as Jemaa Islamiyah, Jema'a Islamiyya, Jema'a Islamiyyah, Jema'ah Islamiyah, Jema'ah Islamiyyah, Jemaa Islamiya, Jemaa Islamiyya, Jemaah Islamiyya, Jemaa Islamiyyah, Jemaah Islamiah, Jemaah Islamiyah, Jemaah Islamiyyah, Jemaah Islamiya, Jamaah Islamiyah, Jamaa Islamiya, Jemaah Islam, Jemahh Islamiyah, Jama'ah Islamiyah, Al-Jama'ah Al Islamiyyah, Islamic Group and Islamic Community).

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)

Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade (AAMB) (also known among other names as Al-Aqsa Intifada Martyrs' Group, Al-Aqsa Brigades, Martyrs of al-Aqsa group, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Battalion and Armed Militias of the Al-Aqsa Martyr Battalions).

Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT) (also known among other names as Lashkar-e-Toiba, Lashkar-i-Toiba (LiT), Lashkar-i-Taiba (Holy Regiment), Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous), Lashkar-e-Taibyya, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (Army of the Pure and Righteous), Lashkar-e-Taiba (Righteous Army), Lashkar-Taiba (Army of the Good), Lashkar e Toiba, Lashkar e Taiba, Lashkar-E-Tayyaba, Lashkar e Tayyiba).

Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ) (also known among other names as Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, Lashkar-e-Jhangvie, Laskar-e-Jhangvi, Lashkare Jhangvi, Lashkar-e-Jhangwi, Lashkar-i-Jhangwi, Jhangvi Army, Lashkar-e Jhangvi, Lashkar Jhangvi, Lashkar-e-Jhanvi (LeJ), Lashkar-i-Jangvi, Lashkar e Jhangvi, Lashkar Jangvi, Laskar e Jahangvi).

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (November 13, 2003).

Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) (also known among other names as PLF - Abu Abbas Faction, Front for the Liberation of Palestine (FLP)).

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) (Al-Jibha al-Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin).

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC) (Al-Jibha Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin-al-Qadiya al-Ama).

The following list is established for the purposes of Part II.1 of the Criminal Code (May 17, 2004).

Ansar al-Islam (AI) (also known as the Partisans of Islam, Helpers of Islam, Supporters of Islam, Soldiers of God, Kurdistan Taliban, Soldiers of Islam, Kurdistan Supporters of Islam, Supporters of Islam in Kurdistan, Followers of Islam in Kurdistan).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Groupe islamique armé (Armed Islamic Group, GIA)
The GIA is a radical anti-government, anti-intellectual, anti-secularist and anti-Western Sunni Muslim group based in Algeria. The GIA is known to have targeted intellectuals, journalists and foreigners, and is known to operate outside Algeria. The group has links with terrorist organizations throughout the Middle East and Central/Southern Asia, including Al Qaida and Osama bin Laden.
2. Groupe salafiste pour la prédication et le combat
(Salafist Group for Call and Combat, GSPC)
The GSPC is a radical Sunni Muslim group seeking to establish an Islamist government in Algeria. It is a breakaway faction of the GIA. The GSPC has adopted a policy that violence should be targeted on security or military targets, foreigners, intellectuals and administrative staff. The GSPC is believed to have been active outside Algeria. The group has been affiliated to Osama bin Laden and groups financed by him.
3. Al Jihad (AJ)
The AJ, founded during the 1970s, claims to offer a remedy for Egypt’s social, economic and political problems by challenging the current Egyptian government. The group employs terrorism in an attempt to overthrow the current government and replace it with an Islamic state. The AJ has been actively involved in terrorism since its inception, including the assassination of then Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in 1981. AJ activity outside of Egypt has included involvement in the two 1998 US embassy bombings in Africa in which some AJ members were indicted by the US. The group has links with Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaida, and is also a signatory to the 1998 fatwa (religious decree) against the US and Israel.
4. Vanguards of Conquest (VOC)
The VOC is a radical armed wing of, but closely aligned with, the AJ that has actively been involved in terrorism including attempted assassinations against the Egyptian Interior Minister, Prime Minister and President. The VOC has released ‘assassination lists’ which have included civilians.
5. Al Qaida
Al Qaida is the central component of a network of Sunni Islamic extremist groups associated with Osama bin Laden, which functions as an umbrella organization, with branches in the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, and North America. Al Qaida is committed to overthrowing secular governments in Islamic countries and using force to eliminate all Western influences in such countries. Bin Laden, and those within his network, believe that the only way these goals can be achieved is through violence and terrorist activities up to and including martyrdom. The Bin Laden network has been directly or indirectly associated with: the 1998 bombings of two US embassies; the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole; and the 2001 World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.
6. Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (AGAI)
The AGAI strives to violently overthrow the current Egyptian government and replace it with a state governed by Islamic law. It is one of the largest and most extreme Egyptian terrorist groups. The AGAI specializes in armed attacks against government and security officials, Western tourists and any others believed to be opponents of an Islamic state in Egypt. The group has been described as having links to the network of Osama bin Laden and signed his February 23, 1998 Fatwa (religious decree) against the United States and Israel saying it was the individual duty of all Muslims to kill American citizens and their allies, civilian or military, wherever possible.
7. Al-Ittihad Al-Islam (AIAI)
The AIAI is an internationally established Islamist organization that engages in terrorism in Somalia and Ethiopia. Guided by the goal of creating an Islamist theocracy based on Islamic law, the AIAI’s objective is the unification of all Muslims in the region under the banner of creating a ‘greater Somalia’. To achieve this goal, the AIAI is committed to using indiscriminate terror tactics, including the targeting of foreigners and political leaders of foreign states. The AIAI has ties with states that are known to support terrorism and is believed to have operational links with Al Qaida.
8. Islamic Army of Aden (IAA)
The Islamic Army of Aden is a Yemen based radical Islamic organization which advocates the overthrow of the Yemeni government and the creation of an Islamist theocracy in Yemen based on Sharia'h (Islamic law). Combating Western influences not only in Yemen but also within the Islamic world, the IAA opposes the use of Yemeni ports and bases by the United States and other Western countries, in addition to its call for the expulsion of Western forces in the gulf and the lifting of international sanctions against Iraq. Guided by these goals, the IAA has used terror tactics in order to achieve their objectives, including the targeting of foreigners and political representatives of foreign states. While the IAA is based in Yemen, its ties with terrorist groups such as Al Qaida, and states that are known to support international terrorism, make it of broad significance in the region.
9. Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HuM)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HuM), is a Pakistan based radical Kashmiri Islamist organization which advocates the liberation and subsequent integration of Kashmir from Indian control into Pakistan, in addition to calling for a jihad against America and India. Within this context, the HuM advocates, is devoted to, and has called for: the creation of an Islamist theocracy in Pakistan based on Sharia'h (Islamic law), as well as a jihad to 'liberate oppressed Muslims worldwide', denounces pluralist parliamentary democracy, religious tolerance and equal rights for women as corrupting influences on Islam, and views the United Nations as an institution supporting the genocide of Kashmiris. Guided by these goals and ideology, the HuM employs various methods to achieve its goals which have included, but are not limited to, the targeting, kidnapping and execution of foreigners, hijacking, as well the targeting of Indian government officials, their representatives, and symbols of the Indian government, as well as foreigners and political representatives of other foreign states. The HuM signed the 1998 fatwa put out by Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden and is therefore allied with, or part of, the Al Qaida coalition.
10. Asbat Al-Ansar
Asbat Al-Ansar is a Lebanon-based, Sunni extremist organization, composed primarily of Palestinians. Asbat Al-Ansar builds upon the ideology of fighting the U.S. and Israel, and seeks to establish a radical Islamic regime in Lebanon. In order to achieve its goals, Asbat Al-Ansar participated in and facilitated several terrorist attacks in Lebanon which have included targeting some Western and other embassy personnel, killing Lebanese officials, bombing public and religious places, and killing senior members from rival groups.
11. Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
The Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) is a terrorist organization that operates primarily in Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and other areas of the Middle East, including Lebanon and Syria. It is committed to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state in Palestine. Islamic Jihad countenances no settlement to the Arab-Israeli, Muslim-Israeli, Muslim-Jewish conflict in the region other than the complete destruction of the State of Israel. It is also opposed to moderate secular Arab regimes because they see them as corrupt and contaminated by Western secular values. From 1986 to the present, the PIJ has been responsible for numerous terrorist attacks against Israeli targets within Israel, southern Lebanon and the occupied territories, has been responsible for the deaths of several dozen Israelis and Palestinians, and has carried out a number of dramatic bombings. PIJ attacks have included, but are not limited to, assaults with knives, daggers, axes, grenades, car bombs, and, particularly after 1994, the use of suicide bombers. For example, on May 5, 2002, a suicide bomber pulled his explosive-laden vehicle alongside a bus near Megiddo Junction in northern Israel and then detonated the explosives, killing at least 17 Israelis and injuring dozens of others. Several of the passengers on the bus were Israeli soldiers travelling to posts in northern Israel. The military wing of the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
12. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), is a Pakistan-based radical Islamist organization which advocates the liberation and subsequent integration of Jammu and Kashmir from Indian control into Pakistan, in addition to calling for the 'destruction' of America, India, and all infidels worldwide. Seeking the creation of an Islamist theocracy in Pakistan based on Sharia'h (Islamic law), JeM has sought to unite the various militant groups fighting in Kashmir so as to be better able to establish an Islamic State of Kashmir through armed struggle, and thereby extend their jihad throughout India, South Asia, and the rest of the world to wherever they believe Muslims are oppressed. Guided by these goals and ideology, JeM is committed to using indiscriminate terror tactics in order to achieve their objectives, including targeting foreigners and political representatives of foreign states.
13. Hamas (Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamiya) ("Islamic Resistance Movement")
Hamas, the Arabic acronym of which means "Zeal", is a radical Sunni Muslim terrorist organization which developed from the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) in 1987. It uses political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel. Hamas has stated that "it is in a war with the Jewish people, as well as the state of Israel. The purpose of every operation is to kill Jews; for by killing Jews, all the Zionist settlers and their allies will be driven from the area." Hamas is well-financed and organized, with its funding coming from an array of sources. In March 1996, Israeli intelligence officials estimated that roughly 95 per cent of the estimated $70-million a year that it collected went into such charities as hospitals, clinics and schools, with only a small portion siphoned off to pay for weapons and military operations. While some funds supposedly raised for charity go directly to the military wing, some of the charity funds intended for activists, families, and institutions are "leaked" to the terrorist apparatus and are used for terrorist activities. The charity associations pay fines and assist the families of the arrested activists or the activists themselves. In other words, funds need not be utilized exclusively for weapons, explosives or logistical support to facilitate terrorist activities. Since 1990, Hamas has been responsible for several hundred terrorist attacks against both civilian and military targets. Hamas has been one of the primary groups involved in suicide bombings aimed at Israelis in the course of the intifada that started in September 2000.
14. Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) / Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress (KADEK)
Founded in 1974 by Abdullah Ocalan, the PKK / KADEK is a Kurdish political party that follows a Marxist-Leninist ideology and whose main goal is the creation of an independent Kurdish state in southeast Turkey and in northern Iraq (a region that is part of the traditional territory of the Kurdish people and called Kurdistan). To arrive at its goal, the PKK / KADEK has led a campaign of guerilla warfare and terrorism, especially in Turkey and in northern Iraq, by attacking the Turkish government's armed forces and diplomats and Turkish businesses in some western European cities and by attempting to destabilize tourism in Turkey by bombing resorts and kidnapping tourists.
16. Hizballah
Hizballah, meaning "Party of God", is an Islamist terrorist organization based in Lebanon. Hizballah seeks to restore Islam to a position of supremacy in the political, social, and economic life of the Muslim world. The objectives of Hizballah, as derived from its February 16, 1985 political manifesto, include removing all Western influences from Lebanon and from the Middle East, as well as destroying the state of Israel and liberating all Palestinian territories and Jerusalem from what it sees as Israeli occupation, with no option for any negotiated peace. Guided by these goals, Hizballah's ultimate objective is to establish a radical Shi'a Islamist theocracy in Lebanon. Hizballah has been responsible for car bombings, hijackings and kidnapping Western and Israeli/Jewish targets in Israel, Western Europe and South America. Hizballah operates principally in Lebanon, but has also been active in Europe, North and South America, and Africa.
17. Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
The Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), is an international terrorist organization founded by Sabri al-Banna (a.k.a. Abu Nidal) that has a demonstrated ability to carry out terrorist attacks throughout the Middle East, Asia, South America and Europe. The main goal of the ANO is the destruction of Israel and the creation of an independent Palestinian state. The ANO has utilized many methods to further its cause including bombings, hijackings, assassinations and armed attacks against civilians. In total, it has carried out over 90 terrorist attacks in 20 countries, killing approximately 300 people. Its philosophy is purely rejectionist in that it refuses to countenance any type of compromise with Israel. The ANO is known for the brutality and indiscriminate nature of its attacks, as well as their careful planning and execution.
18. Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
The Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) is the smallest and most radical of the Islamist separatist groups fighting to establish an Iranian-style Islamic state in Mindanao, an island in the southern Philippines. ASG activities include bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, and extortion from companies and wealthy businessmen in order to attain their aims. Its targets are primarily security forces, foreign priests and religious figures, and Christian populations. The ASG has gained international notoriety for kidnapping foreigners. Abu Sayyaf declared it would continue kidnapping American nationals if the government refused to grant the ASG a separate homeland and the USA did not withdraw support for Israel. ASG ideology is not predicated simply on demands for regional autonomy or independence for Mindanao; instead, it espouses Al Qaida's line on the need for relentless struggle to achieve the global domination of radical Islam.
20. Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI)
The Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI) is an Islamist terrorist organization that has developed economic and military assets, through the use of cells (fiahs) operating throughout Southeast Asia. Guided by its objective of creating an Islamic state ruled by sharia'h (Islamic law), the JI wishes to create an Islamist theocracy (JI's conception of Dawlah Islamiyyah or Islamic state) that would unify Muslims in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and the Southern Philippines. Sharing a common philosophy with the groups in the Al Qaida network, the JI and its leadership have been linked to Al Qaida, both before and after the attacks of September 11, 2001. The JI has emerged as the most extensive transnational radical Islamist group in Southeast Asia. Since its inception, the JI has been responsible for a series of bank robberies, hijackings, and the bombing of civilian targets.
21. Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
The Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) is a terrorist organization that emerged in Central Asia in the late 1990s. The primary goal of the IMU is to overthrow the government of Uzbekistan. The IMU has employed kidnapping, armed attacks against government installations, cross-border incursions, coordinated efforts with other terrorist groups, such as Osama bin Laden's Al Qaida network, and other methods to achieve its goals. The IMU has attacked Westerners and declared its intention to strike at Western interests in Central Asia.

23. Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade (AAMB)
The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade (AAMB) is an armed faction comprised of an unknown number of small cells of Fatah-affiliated "Islamic Nationalists". It emerged following the outbreak of the Palestinian-Israeli clashes in September 2000 and consists of local clusters of armed activists. The AAMB aims to drive the Israeli military and settlers from the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem, to end the Israeli occupation, and to establish an independent and sovereign Palestinian state. During the period 30 September 2000 to 31 August 2002, the AAMB claimed responsibility for some 16 attacks, 12 of which were against civilian targets. In these 12 attacks, 38 people were killed, including 36 civilians, and the number of wounded was estimated, at a minimum, at 435. The AAMB has also claimed responsibility for at least 12 of the 38 suicide bombing attacks against Israeli civilians during the January to August 2002 period. Early in January 2003, a foreign agency concluded that the AAMB was becoming more organized, resilient and co-ordinated. Later in January 2003, the AAMB indicated that they had decided to pursue the Intifada and would continue suicide operations.
30. Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT)
Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT) (Army of the Pure), is a Pakistan-based, radical Islamist organization operating in the Indian state of Kashmir and Jammu, one of the main centres of extremist activity in South Asia. The LeT is the militant wing of the Markaz Da'wa wal-Irshad (MDI), a fundamentalist centre for religious learning and social welfare established in the late 1980s. The LeT has targeted both civilians (including prominent politicians) and the Indian security forces (including local police forces), and has become infamous for carrying out massacres of non-Muslims. Attacks on the security forces generally take the form of suicide assaults. In addition to links to Al Qaida, the LeT also has links with the Taliban and other Islamic extremist groups throughout the Middle East, Chechnya, and the Philippines. Al Qaida's close links to the LeT can be traced to their common training in Afghan camps and in the 1980s jihad against the Soviets. Osama bin Laden is reportedly one of the LeT's leading financiers.
31. Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ)
The Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ) or the Army of Jhang (from the name of a region in Pakistan) is a Sunni Islamic organization that commits terrorist acts, including bombings and assassinations, traditionally against individuals or groups belonging to the Shiite Islamic community in Pakistan. The LJ's goal is the creation of a Sunni Muslim state. The LJ believes that Shiites whom it considers to be heretics or infidels of Islam, are the main obstacle to the establishment of an orthodox caliphate. Since 11 September 2001 and the American coalition's attack on the Taliban in Afghanistan, members of the LJ have also been involved in attacks against Christians and foreigners in Pakistan, in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause.
32. Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
The Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)/PLF - Abu Abbas faction is a small, armed splinter group allied to the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). It professes an ideology that is both leftist and nationalist, and has as its objective the destruction of the state of Israel and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital. First founded in 1961 by Ahmad Jibril, the group operates primarily in Europe, Israel, Lebanon and other areas in the Middle East. During its most active period, it is known to have conducted several high-profile attacks, including the operation for which it is best known, the October 1985 hijacking of the Achille Lauro.
33. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) (Al-Jibha al-Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin)
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) (Al-Jibha al-Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin) is a secular Palestinian group purportedly guided by a Marxist interpretation. The PFLP's terrorist activities began on July 23, 1968 with the hijacking to Algeria of an El Al flight en route from Rome to Tel Aviv. The PFLP's armed wing—almost completely inactive in the four years preceding the start of the latest Palestinian uprising (the Al Aqsa intifada) on September 29, 2000—raised its profile in 2001. It conducted car bombings and some suicide bombings in Israel (including in the city of Jerusalem), an assassination of an Israeli Cabinet Minister, Tourism Minister Rehavam Ze'evi, and other attacks on Israelis. The first reported PFLP killing of a civilian in Israel since the start of the latest intifada was on August 27, 2001. The PFLP has claimed several other attacks, including a suicide bombing in a pizzeria in Karnei Shomron, Israel, on February 16, 2002, killing three civilians.
34. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC) (Al-Jibha Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin-al-Qadiya al-Ama)
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC) (Al-Jibha Sha'biya lil-Tahrir Filistin-al-Qadiya al-Ama) is a nationalist, Marxist, Palestinian organization whose aim is the destruction of the state of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state. The PFLP-GC has conducted some of its most imaginative attacks inside Israeli territory using hot-air balloons and motorized hang-gliders. In 1970, PFLP-GC operatives blew up a Swissair jet flying to Tel Aviv. In the 1980s, they were responsible for injuring US Marines participating in the international peace keeping force in Beirut. In January 2003, the PFLP-GC claimed its gunmen were responsible for wounding two residents of a Jewish settlement in the West Bank, one of whom was an eight-year-old boy. The PFLP-GC said that its armed branch acted in "response to the daily massacres committed against the Palestinian people" in the occupied territories. It reaffirmed its intention of "pursuing the resistance and the intifada until all the (Palestinian) objectives are achieved."
35. Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Ansar al-Islam (AI) is a radical, Sunni Islamist, para-military terrorist group composed of Iraqi Kurds, Arabs and others. The group was established in September 2001 as a result of a merger of several Kurdish Sunni groups, and follows the same extremist interpretation of Islam as does Al Qaeda. It is closely affiliated with the Al Qaeda and forms part of the Al Qaeda network.

Posted by: Mentat at July 15, 2004 9:58 AM

Addendum: so far 9 of those addresses have bounced.

I have however seen CGW's post on another thread concerning Susan_b. If that becomes a contact site for JW posters, I shall update this list and make it available thru that. In the meantime expect some bounces, if you go thru the mess I just did.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 10:05 AM

Examples of Sharia law:

1. Offensive, military jihad against non-Muslims is a communal, religious obligation;
2. A person who is ignorant about Islamic legal opinion must follow the legal opinion of a scholar;
3. The penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death;
4. When slaughtering animals for food, a knife must be used to cut the windpipe and gullet;
5. A woman is only eligible to receive half the inheritance of a man;
6. Marriage may be forced on virgins by their father or father’s father;
7. A non-Arab man may not marry an Arab woman;
8. A woman must seek permission from her husband to leave the house;
9. A Muslim man cannot marry a woman who is a Zoroastrian, an idol worshipper, an apostate from Islam or a woman with one parent who is Jewish or Christian, with the other being Zoroastrian; a Muslim woman cannot marry anyone but a Muslim;
10. A free Muslim man may marry up to four women;
11. Retaliation is obligatory in most cases when someone is deliberately murdered except when a Muslim kills a non-Muslim, a Jew or a Christian kills a Muslim apostate or a father or mother kill their offspring;
12. Non-Muslim subjects (Ahl al-Dhimma) of a Muslim state are subject to a series of discriminatory laws – “dhimmitude”;
13. The penalty for fornication or sodomy is being stoned to death;
14. The penalty for an initial theft is amputation of the right hand. Subsequent thefts are penalized by further amputations of feet and hand;
15. A non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim in court; a person who is “without respectability” cannot give legal testimony; a woman’s legal testimony is only given half the legal weight of a man’s (and is only acceptable in cases involving property); to legally prove fornication or sodomy requires 4 male witnesses who actually saw the act;
16. The establishment and continuation of the Islamic Caliphate (by force, if necessary) is a communal obligation;
17. Sodomites and Lesbians must be killed;
18. Laughing too much is forbidden;
19. Musical instruments are unlawful;
20. Creating pictures of animate life is forbidden;
21. Female circumcision, which includes the excision of the clitoris, is obligatory;
22. Slavery is permitted;
23. People may be bribed to convert to Islam;
24. Beating a rebellious wife is permissible; and,
25. Lying is permissible in a time of war (or jihad).

Complete legal clauses and references for the above at:

http://boston.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/21475

Posted by: Mentat at July 15, 2004 10:15 AM

Andrew, I know exactly how you feel. But I see rays of hope everywhere - despite the cunning of the Jihadists they , like Hitler and Stalin, are also egotists. If Bin Laden hadn't shown his hand on 9/11 imagine how much more the Muslim invaders would be ingrained in the fabric of the West. I bet Islamic clerics in the West, who had been so carefully lying to the native poulations of the countries they were subverting, were thrown on the defensive after 2001. People across the West are waking up, slowly I'll admit, but things are stirring. And don't forget many of the Muslim immigrants to the West are converting to real religions or becoming aethist. There's no doubt we will win the coming "Clash Of Civilizations" , it's just a tragedy that because of the actions of our politicians and media the war will be longer and more bloody then it needed to be. Nature has checks and balances - the evil of Islam will leave the Earth.
To paraphrase Lord Of The Rings it has fallen to all of to do what we can to win this struggle and sadly there will be "No Freedom Without Suffering."

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 15, 2004 10:16 AM

Isn't jihad just about the inner struggle? Or defending muslims from the agressions of non-muslims? That surely must be what this guy is talking about?

It would be interesting to see how this article gets watered down and sanitized. Sadly, it will never make it to the mainstream press...how about those abu Gharaib and Gitmo prisoners?

Posted by: Belisarius at July 15, 2004 10:39 AM

Well, we shall see, Belisarius. I just sent a copy of this to nearly 200 reporters / papers, and will be working on more email addys after the wedding (which unfortunately makes it August =/ )

Those were all Canadian email addresses, however. I imagine if and when a total compilation is made (and it ought to include every politician we can find!), it will run to several thousand.

I can only hope a Few of them pay attention, and publish this in their papers.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 11:02 AM

Sharia law Example 21"Female circumsision which includes excision of the clitoris -is obligatory"
Why bother I bet the biggest percentage of muslim men have never found their wifes clit. I'm surprised they know it exists at all!!!

Posted by: Rikki at July 15, 2004 11:39 AM

Interesting article on SA:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/stalinsky200407150826.asp

Need we say more?

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 11:41 AM

Hi all.
First off let me introduce myself. My name is Pauly. I live in Denver Colorado U.S.A. A friend of mine pointed this web page out to me and I was more a little curious. She didn’t say much about it, but I have to ask, is this British sight? Where are most of you from? I’m not like your typical American person, my opinion is still open for discussion. If you can present you self in a factual, polite and believable manner, I have no problem with changing my mind. But to tell you the truth, I really haven’t formed any perception of Muslims as of yet. Some that I have met are radical and quite frankly scare me, others are good friends of mine that live her to get away from all the turmoil from their homeland. It sounds like the situation with the Muslims is more pronounced wherever you are speaking from than here in Colorado. I’m not dismissing anything that you are saying, feeling or seeing, just that it seems a little different here in the U.S. I’m here to learn, so please bear with me. If you stay open and polite to my questions and inquiries, I’ll stay open & polite to you as well.
Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 12:05 PM

But Gary, rezareza666 says it's the Americans and Israelis doing all the beheadings, even when the muslims proclaim them vaingloriously as their own doing . . .

Posted by: CGW at July 15, 2004 12:10 PM

Hello Pauly!

I am not sure of the site's location, but I do know we have a pretty diverse bunch here. Americans, British, Canadians, and a couple other countries... not to mention I think we cover all races and most faiths, or lack thereof :P

There are a few here with rough edges, but they mean well, as we all do.

Blast! Laundry. back in a bit...

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 12:11 PM

andrew,

great post....however, one criticism: don't ever apologize for stating what you believe. don't be concerned about offending someone. as long as you steer clear of shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theatre you have no concern whatsoever about what you say. do you think those idiot hollywood bubbleheads give a damn what you think when they spout their bilge? when you say "not to offend anybody"...you are playing into the hands of the multi-culturalists and diversity freaks.

Posted by: drisnya at July 15, 2004 12:15 PM

Anyway! There is a vast amount of info here, don't let it get to you. Just keep on reading and it begins to sink into your mind....

If you have looked at other threads you will find we have people from the other side of the argument posting her also.

And we do try to be polite. But there is the occasional flareup. Don't be afraid to say what you think, but Do expect people to point you at certain information- some of the vociferously :P

Who's next?

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 12:19 PM

Once again I find myself compelled to attempt to add a voice of reason and calm to the discussion on this and other threads that seem very active today. Some of you are just beginning to acknowledge the reality of the inevitable triump of Islam. In your panic and terror, you are spewing threats and blasphemies and spreading your panic to others. I beseech you to calm yourselves; there is nothing to fear. Muslims have no wish to harm you. The complete subjucation of the world to the will of Almighty Allah (swt) will bring peace and justice to all mankind. It is to be welcomed joyously, not feared.

Henri of Navarre (Henri IV of France) famously said that "Paris is worth a Mass." Are the lives and futures of yourselves and your children not worth the Five Pillars of Islam?

Stop your futile warring against Almighty Allah (swt). Cease oppressing Muslims. Reverently and without reservation recite the Shahada and embrace Islam. Join the community of Muslims and be part of the bright and shining future rather than a remnant of the dark and dying past.

The struggle nears its preordained end. Soon the Islamic Caliphate will spread over the Earth, replacing corrupt and unjust man-made laws and governments by the command of the only Legislator (swt) and his divine Sharia.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim.

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 15, 2004 12:20 PM

Thanks Gary,

I have been here for a little while reading and watching. I work as a designer for an engineering firm and I’m an American Football Official. I’m on line most of the day but can post only when I have time. As an official I constantly try to see thing objectively and a designer I see thing from all different sides and all different angles. Hopefully my perspective helps some of you. I’m sure yours will help e in one-way or another.

I went to that sight that you mentioned, to tell you the truth, I couldn’t get over the ketchup add on the side. Man has the political mumbo jumbo on both sides gotten way out of control or what. But the ketchup thing was sort of funny. I also thought the picture of Kerry as a Nationalist was funny (and creepy) as well. Are people from other nations really that interested in election? Just wondering. I’ve never gotten out to visit other countries. Been to busy here trying to make a living.

Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 12:26 PM

*points to Reza* Here's the other side! Raza, Pauly. Pauly, the person who wants to rule every aspect your life forever: Reza. *chuckles*

And yes, there is Great overseas interest in elections in the US.

'Henri of Navarre (Henri IV of France) famously said that "Paris is worth a Mass." Are the lives and futures of yourselves and your children not worth the Five Pillars of Islam?'

What is it you are saying, Reza? That if we don't bow to your (version of) God, we and our children will not Have a future?

We're praying for Paris right now, Reza. In Churches and Synagogues.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 12:31 PM

Jihad is an excuse for meeley mouthed Muslims to spew their hate for civilization and plot more murders as they follow in the footsteps of the raping, pillaging, plundering drunken stupor of their false/fake/phony prophet Mohammed.

Islamists are upset because their cult sits in the bottom of a toilet, and we have our hand on the chain, just waiting to pull it.

Flush the Islamotrash, and its supporters.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 15, 2004 12:38 PM

I really, Really must get back to my vows. I only have 4 lines out of 9 completed...

But Reza: Please, answer me on this?

If we weren't arguing ideaologies and faiths here with you, what could we be talking about?

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 12:45 PM

Hi Pauly,
Rikki here I'll just give you a few snippets of advice:
You really are best off forming your own opinions on everything you read here, but suffice to say that the articles printed are all true, and you will see things from an angle that the media, for some unknown reason, refuse to show you.Where the media will use such words as islamic militants we like to use more accurate descriptions such as murderers and terrorists. Also this is far from being a site for rascists we are just being honest based on what we have experienced, seen on the news, read here and heard from either friends or countless other sources. People of all races ,cultures,colours,creeds, religions and nationalities visit this site and comment regularly and have united against one common enemy:ISLAM. Not to say that I myself hate all muslims, just the religion and it's laws,ways, ideals and the way it's followers are so obsessively, frighteningly dedicated to it.
Reza is a perfect example of just the extreme muslims we are at war against, full of hatred to the west, blind to the cruelty and evil of his religion, and convinced that islam is on the road to victory and that we are all on the verge of being either converted to islam or killed, if your opinions oppose his/hers then he/she will try to antagonise you, just laugh at him/her as this is the most intelligent response he/she deserves.
Anyway Pauly welcome from the UK crew!!!

Posted by: Rikki at July 15, 2004 12:55 PM

Pauly, FWIW, I write from New York. I think I'm not the only one from the area...

As for the site, I am not sure, but I can tell you that Robert Spencer, the fellow who owns the site,is a UNC-Chapel Hill alumni which makes me thngk the site is probably American.

Posted by: Bob Owens at July 15, 2004 1:15 PM

Thank you Rikki! I’m beginning to feel welcome here.

But I have to tell you, Like I said before, I see things from all different angles and all different sides and as a college football official I call it as I see it. Am I liberal…yes, and I conservative…yes again! Do I vote Democrat, yes. Do I vote Republican, yes. I vote for what’s right and what’s true. I SEEK THE TRUTH!

The truth is…you are racist. Is that bad…not necessarly. To a point everybody is. I’m racist. I hate Bikers. I lived with them in North Dakota, I’ve constantly dealt with them, and I see them for what they are. Are all bikers bad, no. But on the whole…I distrust them. I’m not talking about the college professor or the surgeon who is going through a mid-life and buys a harly, but the die-hard gang biker types.

Also, I take everything with a grain of salt, when I go to liberal thread pages and converse with them, they say that everything they post is the truth as well. Propaganda is a common stream of influence. I see it for what it is. To tell the typical propaganda (i.e. a billboard add) from malice propaganda comes down to a simple test. Has it a biased researched, is it factual and looked up, and (the biggie) is it believable.

But I’m beginning to see what you are saying about this Reza.

Again thank you all.
Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 1:32 PM

Hi Pauly,

As many have said above, we are a diverse crowd who post from many points of view. Hi there by the way - I am a fellow American.

If I were to give any advice to you as an open-minded reader, it would be to not get too upset in a first-blush kind of way. There are many passionate people posting here and sometimes the passion gets a bit extreme. For instance, sometimes one of the posters will make a rash comment that will come from a place of passion, but it is not meant to be offensive. I think I can speak for many here when I say that we don't have a problem with Muslims as people, but we DO have a problem with aspects of their theology. (The theology that says you either convert to Islam, allow yourself to become a second citizen within Islam - for understanding of exactly what that means hang out with us in the postings, you will get the idea very quickly - and/or die because you will not accept their repugnant way of thinking.)

You will also see people who have a variety of political and/or philosophical principles - everything from agnostics, theists, atheists, conservatives, liberals, etc.; not to mention our wonderful friends from up north, across both sides of the pond, in Africa, Malasia, etc. We tend to make up a very diverse group. Try not to allow those diversities of thinking and expression to color your ideas of what Mr. Spencer is trying to bring across on this site.

And, speaking of Mr. Spencer, if you really want to understand what this site is all about, read his books: "Islam Unveiled" (an excellent reference in my opinion) and his latest "Onward Muslim Soldiers" (not as good as the other, but still a very good read). And look feel free to check out the sites that others post in the comments sections. That should be enough to be going on with. I imagine it will keep you busy for a while LOL!

Hope we see you posting more on the boards. :-)

Paula

ps. Gary good job on the emailing campaign. And, if you reach just one person out of all of the people you send the article to - it will have been worth your time.

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 1:32 PM

Thanks Paula

Good advice. I’ve gotten used to it from other thread pages that I’m apart of. It usually takes somebody to really piss on my mom’s leg to get me fired up.

Bob Owens,

I did not know that he was a UNC alumni. How interesting. I haven’t read any of his books yet but I have got them scheduled in, in about a month or two. I’m busy with work and getting ready for the football season.

Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 1:42 PM

Here is another question and answer from the same source as that cited in the original post. Note that it proves that disbelievers have nothing to fear from Muslims.

Incidentally, although the Islamic scholars who run the online fatwa site are located in South Africa, they are Deobandis. (Deoband is a city in India. Deobandis are very similar to Salafis.)

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 15, 2004 1:56 PM

Here is what the link Reza presents, goes to:

My question is can you kill a disbeliever who doesn't accept Islam. Please tell me in details with simple English understanding.

It is not permissible to kill a disbeliever if he does not accept Islam. However, in a situation of jihad, if the disbelievers are conquered, they will be invited to Islam. If they refuse to accept Islam, they will be ordered to give jizya (tax). If they refuse to give jizya, then only will they be killed.

Was salaam

Mufti E Desai
Fatwa Dept

---------------
I pay enough taxes, Reza, sorry. Islam will not get a thin dime from me.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 2:14 PM

So, Gary, in simple words... "Yes."

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 2:18 PM

Reza
Ok...Ok... I'm ready to recite the "Shahada"

Here goes...

"La ilaha il Yahweh, Yesuwa-ur-bin-Yahweh"

There. Is that ok?

Posted by: kc England at July 15, 2004 2:26 PM

So other than the timing, one being a present danger to us and the other being a danger of the people of the past. What is the difference between a Muslim killing for their god and the Christian crusades of old, and the genocidal attempt of the Catholics to rid the new land of the savage Native Americans? I’m hearing that people here (in this thread) are scared that the Muslims are moving in and gearing up for a war with the “non-believers”. What’s the difference with what they are doing now as apposed to what the religious-right did back then? I’m siding with the Muslims and I’m not bashing the Christians, I just would like to know.

Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 2:58 PM

Unfortunately, Pauly, there were regretable things that happened in the past - some excusable, some not. What the American government did to the American Indians was just wrong. And, the Inquisition and the Pograms against the Jews (and Conversos) was also dead wrong.

But try not to conflate the Crusades with these other examples. The Crusades was a belated (albeit several centuries) response to the genocidal jihad that was waged against the Roman and Christian lands of the ME in the 600s. It was Mohammed's army that began that campaign; it should not have surprised them that the Christians might one day respond in kind.

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 3:27 PM

Pauly,

Read Robert Spencer's books and articles,
read Ibn Warraq's Why I'm Not a Muslim,
read the koran, the life of mohammed
by Ibn Ishaq, read the hadiths of Bukari,
read jihadi websites,
and heed what you read.

In mohammedism, there is one set of ethics
for you and me,
and another set for them,
like this little jihadi gem:
be honest with your brothers
and lie to the Others,
for allah condones deceivers.
Jews are monkeys, Christians
are pigs and all the Others
must convert or be killed
as it is willed by allah.
Their prophet lied, stole,
had many murdered, including
a poetess who wrote scathing
satire about his character
and he is considered the perfect man
you understand.

Their women are treated as chattel,
and can be beaten, and in war,
the Other women can be raped
with the blessing of their god.
Is this good?
Their sharia laws are tribal,
barbaric, supress and
discriminate against the Free
(that's you and me).

Read, Pauly, read
and remember:
their mind is split in two,
between them and me and you.

Posted by: the poetess at July 15, 2004 4:54 PM

Poetess~ I have often wondered, since seeing your handle. Did you base it on the history of Mohammed? The fact that one of the first people who fell before him was a female poet who criticized him?

I Approve :) Keep at them. They can't touch you.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 5:19 PM

No Paula,

You are telling me that what the Christians did to the Native Americans was a 200-year old grudge? No. I do not accept that answer. Besides, the Christians did it not only to the natives they did it to themselves. I think you are stretching it way to far for me.

Other poster,

The Christians of colonel times saw the blacks as monkeys to be slaves. The modern bible is chuck full of double standards and hypocrisy. Eye for an eye, love they neighbor, god loved all men, only the true believer shall be saves, exc. It wasn’t until the a few decades ago that we let women vote here, and up tell then women were second-class citizens, mostly because of the catholic teachings and the views of the bible towards women. I’m not saying that it’s as bad as what’s going on in some parts of the country, but where do you draw the line…when do we start a pre-emptive war?

CGW,

Yes I have much to learn about the Muslim religion. I have a friend who is taking Arabic and learning their ways so as to join the army. Don’t know how much help he’ll be seeing as he’s so dam white. Ha! I don’t have time right now, but I promise you and mostly my self that I will, within the next two month, I’ll read some of his books so as to understand what the urgency is, that you all post with here. But still, If you are that passionate about it and I am hearing some suggest that we do a little ethnic cleansing of our own, than take the time to explain it to me. I’m just a typical guy with the grasp of the obvious. No I haven’t read all the books, but I do have eyes and ears. I am able to learn. And I get pied dam good money to call things as I see it! So, I’m one of those guys that you can rather help or blow off. Are you here to bitch to one another or are you here to educate one another. I’ll do my part and I will read those books but for now, educate me. I’m willing and capable of learning. I’m not bashing and I’m not playing devils advocate here. I’m busy working at an engineering firm and officiating college football (lot more involved than you could ever imagine!)

But still, if you do see these people as the enemy, than you are making the smart move by learning as much about them as you can. I’m talking as a football official here. But you are screwing up on one major point. You are giving yourselves away to you enemy. Not by posting here or by venting your anger (which is good to do as long as it ‘s not physical) but by changing you stance. You are telling people to be paranoid of you neighbor. Well if you neighbor is a terrorist, then he will know to be smarter around you, thus harder to spot.

Thank you all for you time to respond. I do thank you.

Pauly

Posted by: pauly at July 15, 2004 5:48 PM

Pauly,

You misunderstood my post. I was not equating the Native American/Christian conflict in the states with the others. I was saying that that was not justified. But, I followed it up by saying you have to make a distinction between that sort of conflict and the Crusades. Those two conflicts are different issues and should NOT be viewed in the same light. It is rather like comparing apples to pineapples - different species altogether.

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 6:04 PM

Oh, I think I understand why you posted as you did. No, in our conflict with the Native Americans it was not a grudge - we were clearly the aggressors there. There was a definite clash of civilizations and we encroached on them. Then, we resorted to all kinds of awful tactics to kill by biological (aka. blankets infested with smallpox, etc.) and other means. It was pretty awful. Then we went ahead and confined them to reservations. Altogether bad news.

The Crusades, on the other hand, was a defensive type of war - post the aggression of the Muslims in the late 600s. It was a war of retaliation.

As I said, different species altogether.

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 6:41 PM

Pauly;

Like you, I am new to this. I would like to say hello to all, and try and read very carefully. May I suggest you take your time - gather some information and sit back and look at it from the outside - get a picture of it. Read what can be gathered from areas around the world - where are the conflicts. Who, why, and how were these started. Can this happen in any country? No douby about it when everyone is asleep. I may not have signed up right, so don't know if this will be posted - I tried.

Posted by: THSIMJ at July 15, 2004 7:22 PM

Rikki,

I commend you on your observations. I think you are very intelligent in taking the time in observing what is going on and analyzing carefully. Good Job!!!!

Posted by: THSIMJ at July 15, 2004 7:35 PM

reza Borg Master said, “Stop your futile warring against Almighty Allah (sob). Cease oppressing Muslims. Reverently and without reservation recite the Shahada and embrace Islam. Join the community of Muslims and be part of the bright and shining future rather than a remnant of the dark and dying past.
The struggle nears its preordained end. Soon the Islamic Caliphate will spread over the Earth, replacing corrupt and unjust man-made laws and governments by the command of the only Legislator (sob) and his divine Sharia.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbutt”

But what he/she really meant,

“Stop your futile warring against The Borg (swt). Cease oppressing Borggies. Reverently and without reservation recite the Borg operational manual and embrace The Borg. Join the community of Borggies and be part of the bright and shining future rather than a remnant of the dark and dying past.
The struggle nears its preordained end. Soon the Borg Empire will spread over the Galaxy, replacing corrupt and irrational human laws and governments by the command of the only Borg Master(swt) and his divine Borg book.
Your grandchildren will be Borggies.
The Borgu akbutt”

Try to keep it straight reza, recite after me “The Borg (swt) is good, islam is bad.”

“Your grandchildren will make fun of reza.”

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at July 15, 2004 9:09 PM

Canuck,

I am of the decided opinion that Mohammed followed the old adage: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."

In reza's case, he has taken this a step farther and it should now read, "If you can't baffle them with bullshit, repeat yourself ad nauseum until in a hypnotic stupor they begin to repeat after you."

Posted by: paula at July 15, 2004 9:52 PM

I asked about a week or so ago - what the (swt) meant. I see that Sleazy Reza puts it behind the name of his moon-gods prophets name -Almighty Allah (swt). ........If someone posted as to what it means - I missed it - so do it again. (thanks) I hardly have time to read all that written - How do you guys have time to write it all? Kleo2x in Anderson, Ca.

Posted by: kleo at July 15, 2004 10:07 PM

kleo said/asked, "I see that Sleazy Reza puts it behind the name of his moon-gods prophets name -Almighty Allah (swt). ........If someone posted as to what it means - I missed it - so do it again"

SWT is an abbreviation of Arabic words that mean 'Glory Be To Him.' For example, if you have a pet pot belly pig that you really like and you are talking about him to your friend, you could say, "My little pig George (swt) is such a polite, well-mannered pig."

"Your grandchildren will keep pet pigs(swt) and dogs(swt) will be their best friends."

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at July 15, 2004 10:38 PM

2 points:

1) America does not cause the anger in the arab world. Mentats post of the laws of Islam number 18. Laughing too much is forbidden; nough said

2) I knew they were under educated, but SWT means 'Glory Be To Him'? Is that how acronyms work in Allahland?

Posted by: RollingThunder at July 15, 2004 11:11 PM

Fox News just reported it may be sometime before Marine Hassoun rejoins his fellow soldiers. He has to go through "repatriation" first. How about some re-education and rehabilitation while your at it.

And another headless body turns up in the river. It gets a 10 second cut with no video on the news. Is it that we as the uneducated masses can't handle the reality, dhimmitude, or is there possibly a movement to deny the terrorists the media fame they are seeking. I noticed that fair, balanced, and factual Al-Jazeera did not air the lastest execution of Allah's commands. Perhaps they were threatened with another Tomahawk to press room?

Posted by: RollingThunder at July 15, 2004 11:19 PM

i>I really, Really must get back to my vows. I only have 4 lines out of 9 completed...

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 12:45 PM

The vow by definition is a promise made to God in respect to your commitment of marriage.

You are being married in the eyes of the Lord,The ceremony is asking for his blessing.
Your vow is to God. Your wife's vow should be to god as well, (if you are being married in a church, asking his blessing.)

This Vow thing you are doing isn't what tradition used to be.
I don't know what church your being married in (sounds like a united church) But the traditional vow The one read by the priest, and you say "I do" and accept.

That vow imposes nothing on the wife. The vow you take on, before God and the Christian community, is an infinite obligation. In that vow there is no listing of this or that right, no limitations. In that vow you leave behind all of your "rights" in favour of something much bigger. In that vow You grant that woman an unconditional claim on your life; Your mind, your body, and spirit, devotion.

Marriage is an exchange. Both the man and the woman promise to abandon the self to make room for that unconditional claim of oneness.

Each of us, man and woman, in Catholic marriages given up our individual rights permanently. If we, as husbands and wives, fulfill our obligations we will eventually all lose ourselves to become, in each individual couple, one mind, one body, one spirit.

It's the beginning of the family unit, and the completeness of the creation of man and woman, who separatly, are not complete, but become one, or complete, through marriage.

I hope that helps you out a little while writing your vows.

And good luck!

Posted by: Mullah_Abu_Bin_Boobie at July 16, 2004 4:18 AM

A Christian wedding is much different than an Islamic wedding, where often a deal is made behind closed doors with the girls father, sometimes years before she's out of diapers. She often has no say in the matter, and is dragged off kicking and screaming, often by a filthy old man twice her age, to be raped on her "wedding" night.

Posted by: Mullah_Abu_Bin_Boobie at July 16, 2004 4:22 AM

Belgium's far Right Party has scored massive victory in Regional elections.Vlaams Blok Party says they intend ditching multiculturalism : immigrants will have to swear a patriotic oath.
Immigration will be curbed,illegal immigrants and those who display criminal behaviour will be deported.Says that Muslims and Arabs don't integrate well: no trouble with Chinese or Jews.
So the choice for new citizens will be, integration or deportation....

Posted by: Morgane at July 16, 2004 5:33 AM

Paula,

I read you post once again, and, I do not think I got it wrong. You may have worded it wrong, but I got what you typed down right. Like I said. Do not tell me what I saw was wrong. Explain to me what you did/said so I can better understand it.

“The Crusades was a belated (albeit several centuries) response to the genocidal jihad that was waged against the Roman and Christian lands of the ME in the 600s.”

This is what you posted. So how did I get what you as wrong?

Thsimj,

Thanks for you post and welcome. Thanks for the advice but my life is on a time frame. In fact, most of the people you will meet in the real world will be on a time frame as well. How will you convince them? The people that come to this obscure web page already have an agenda and already understand what you all are talking about. I don’t! So you can either dismiss me or you can practice on me and tell me what you know to be true. I promise you one thing. I will validate everything you say. I will listen and my mind is an open book. My opinion is open for discussion. Is yours?

I have herd from Paula that you all have had problems in the past with people spamming you or infecting you computer with viruses. I have no knowledge of even how to begin to do something like that. But even if I did, I wouldn’t. I’m seeking the truth. I’m a patriot. I will read those books you all have told me but for now…just inform me with what you know. Don’t sight some book you have read, tell me what you know. If you make a statistical and or historical reference, then post the factual backing. If I’m to talk about this in public, than I need to know these things. This is not a far fetch request…is it?

Once again, if this is something that you all cannot do, than let me know now. There is a big Internet out there and I will find the truth. But I will not waste my, or your time with questions that you will not…or cannot answer. I’m a busy man.

Posted by: pauly at July 16, 2004 5:47 AM

Pauly;
I recently gave a seminar on Islam.
I'm going to post my outline notes of Muhammeds life and teachings, please be aware, they are only 'bullet point' notes from which I elaborated when I spoke;

(Sorry every one for what is about to be one of the longest posts ever!)

Muhammad’s life;

He was born in Mecca in 570ad. –His dad died before he was born, and when he was 6yrs old his mother died also.
He was the raised by his grandfather, who subsequently died and was finally raised by his uncle.

Arabia at this time was ‘polytheistic’ They were mainly a ‘nomadic’ people who would travel in caravans. His uncle was a caravan trader – buying and selling goods and Muhammad accompanied him.

During his travels he met Jews and Christians who would talk openly about their faith.
*Nestorians etc
He began to meet people who believed in one God.

Mecca was the religious capital of Arabia.
*In Mecca was the “Kaa’ba” in which was the black stone & apx 360 other Gods

At 25yrs old Muhammad went to work for a wealthy widow called “Khadija”. She proposed marriage and he accepted.

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years). (Sahih Bukhari 5.242)

. The Beginning of Muhammad's preaching
After marrying Khadija, Muhammad's life became settled and he found much time to meditate and fast, sometimes for many days. He often retreated to the caves in the mountains around Mecca. During one of those retreats, he claimed that Angel Gabriel appeared to him. This was claimed to be the beginning of the revelation of the Qur'an. The account in Sahih Bukhari formed pretty much the foundation of all accounts:
Narrated 'Aisha:
(the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." [Note: This statment can also mean, "I will not read." See the section "Was Muhammad illiterate?"]
The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (al-`Alaq 96:1-3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (al-Mudathir 74:1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly." (Sahih Bukhari 1.3)
After the meeting with the spirit at the Cave, Muhammad was very distressed. For two years, Muhammad sank into depression, thinking that he had gone mad or had become one of the soothsayers or poets. His wife, Khadija, however stood by him and reassured him that a good and pious man like him, who took care of his kin, should not face such a possibility. Nonetheless, he reached a point where he wanted to commit suicide,
"I shall go to some high mountain cliff and cast myself down therefrom so that I may kill myself and be at rest. I went off with this mind, but when I was in the midst of the mountains I heard a voice from heaven saying, 'O Muhammand, thou art God's apostle and I am Gabriel.' (At-Tabari: "Tarikh al-Rasul Wa al-Muluk.", Leiden, 1991, I, p. 1152)

He began relating these messages in Mecca.
*The people began to mock him and say he was demon possessed they began to reject his teachings
Sura 68:1-6
"By the pen and what the (angels) write (in the Records of men). 2. You (O Muhammad SAW) are not, by the Grace of your Lord, a madman.3. And verily, for you (O Muhammad SAW) will be an endless reward.4. And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character.5. You will see, and they will see,6. Which of you is afflicted with madness."

Muhammeds ‘Meccan concessions’

Muhammad and the Idols of Mecca
While Muhammad was in Mecca, his followers were few, his movement grew painfully slowly and he, too, felt the pain of estrangement from his tribe. According to early and treasured biographical and historical accounts of Muhammad, authored by competent Muslim scholars (such as writings of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d), Muhammad longed for better relations and reconciliation with his community. Thereafter, the accounts continue, God revealed Surah 53 to Muhammad up to and including vss. 19, 20.
These two verses read:
"Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza
And Manat, the third, the other?" (53:19,20)

Then, originally, the verses (known today as the satanic verses) followed:
"These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries)
Whose intercession is to be hoped for."

The cranes whose intercession was recognized were, of course, the three deities. The same accounts tell us that after this revelation was completed, Muhammad, his followers and the pagan Arabs all prostrated. Tensions eased, reconciliation was at hand, and all were delighted.

The second passage is intended to comfort Muhammad:
"Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;
That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened –Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism. (22:52,53)

Muhammeds ‘Nice’ verses;

At first, Mohammed was trying to befriend the Jews and get them on his side. He insisted that the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) worship the same God

Sura 2:256;
"There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût[65] and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower."

Sura 2:109;
"Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth (that Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allâh's Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allâh brings His Command. Verily, Allâh is Able to do all things"

Sura 109;1-6;
"Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikûn and Kâfirûn): "O Al-Kâfirûn (disbelievers in Allâh, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."

[Quran Surah 29:46].
"And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islâmic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilâh (God) and your Ilâh (God) is One (i.e. Allâh), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)."
He said that the same God sent down the Torah
[Quran Surah 5:48].
"And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)[]. So judge between them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you."

He ordered the Muslims to fast Aashoora' or the Passover [Saheeh Bukhari - 2004]. Even the Qibla (the direction the Muslims face in prayer) was towards Jerusalem - the same direction the Jews faced in prayer [Saheeh Bukhari - 41].

But no matter how hard Mohammed tried to convince them that he is a prophet he just couldn't. Once he even barged into a Jewish Synagogue in Yathrib (Al-Madina Al-Munawwarah) and said that if only twelve Jews would believe in him then Allah would spare them his wrath
[Musnad Ahmad - 23464].
The Prophet (SAW) and I with him went one day until we entered a Jewish Synagogue in Al-Madinah on a holiday of theirs. They hated our entrance on them. So the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said, "O ye Jews, show me twelve men [among the Jews] who believe that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammad is his messenger, and Allah will spare all the Jews under heaven his wrath the wrath he has." They [the Jews] silenced everyone and no one answered him. So he repeated what he said and no one answered. So he repeated it for the third time and no one answered. So he said, "You refuse! By Allah, I am the last [Prophet] and I am the final [Prophet] and I am the chosen Prophet; whether you believe or not."

*He gathered about 50 followers and moved from Mecca to Medina. This event was called the “Hirj” or “migration”

In Medina he began a new venture.
He and his followers would go out and raid traveling caravans. They would take the goods and live off the proceeds. This was by no means unusual for Arabia in this day and age.

He began to be prosperous, and more people wanted to join with him – they could, but only if they joined Islam, declaring there was no God but Allah and he was his messenger

. The Jews were many in Yathrib and its suburbs.
When he realized that the Jews wouldn't believe in him, and that their unbelief would turn against him, because they have the Torah which has the criteria for any prophet, he realized that they should be eliminated. So at first he switched the Qibla (the direction the Muslims face in prayer) from Jerusalem to Mecca
[Quran Surah 2:144
Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's SAW) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Harâm (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what they do.145. And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allâh), then indeed you will be one of the Zâlimûn (polytheists, wrong-doers, etc.).

and Saheeh Bukhari - 41]. Then warned them; they either become Muslims and be safe, or sell their possessions and leave their land
[Saheeh Muslim - 1765 & 1767 and Sunan Abi Dawood - 3003].
"He [Omar] heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) saying, "O I indeed will exile the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula until I leave no one but a Muslim."
While we were at the Mosque, the Messenger of Allah (SAW) came to us and said, "Go to the Jews." So we went out with him until we arrived. So the Messenger of Allah (SAW) stood up and called on them, "O ye Jewish people, become Muslims and you will be safe." They replied, "You have delivered [your message] O Aba Al-Qasim [Mohammad's Kunyah (title)]." So he said to them, "That [delivering the message] is what I want. Become Muslims and you will be safe." They replied, "You have delivered [your message] O Aba Al-Qasim [Mohammad's Kunyah (title)]." So he repeated what he said for the third time and said, "Know that the land is for Allah and his Messenger, and I want to exile you from this land. So let him he who finds something valuable in his possession sell it; or know that the land is for Allah and his Messenger."

He and the Meccans would regularly fight over the caravans etc.
*He signed a peace treaty with them but after 2 yrs one of muhammads men was killed in Mecca, by this time Muhammad had gathered an army of about 10,000 men. He mustered them and went to invade Mecca.
He over through the city and they (at sword point) adopted his religion.

In mecca and early years of Medina, he was a friend to those who didn’t believe. When he mustered an army and invaded Mecca, The sword came out and you either converted or died.
When Muhammad started out on his mission, he proclaimed that he was only a "warner" for the people. As
Sura 88:21 says:
"Therefore give warning, your duty is only to give warning: you are not their keeper."

* There were poets around at the time who did not like him, and would write poetry against him. One of his first acts upon entering Mecca was to find them and have them murdered.
Tabari VIII:96
“A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”

Muhammeds hostility to the Jews;

Sura 7:166
So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

Sura 5:60
Say (O Muhammad SAW to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allâh: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allâh and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshipped Tâghût[] (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hell¬fire), and far more astray from the Right Path
Sura 2:65
And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected."

His Hostility towards Jews and Christians

Sura 9:5
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Sura 8:39
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do

Sura 4:47
O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad SAW) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface faces (by making them like the back of necks; without nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath¬breakers.[] And the Commandment of Allâh is always executed

How did he justify Allah changing his mind?
It doesn’t correspond with Sura 10:64; “there is no changing the words of Allah”

He did what was normal!
Went away and ‘received’ another revelation;-
Sura 16:101
"And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'ân, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allâh knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.
102.
Say (O Muhammad SAW) Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)] has brought it (the Qur'an) down from your Lord with truth, that it may make firm and strengthen (the Faith of) those who believe and as a guidance and glad tidings to those who have submitted (to Allâh as Muslims).
103.
And indeed We know that they (polytheists and pagans) say: "It is only a human being who teaches him (Muhammad SAW)." The tongue of the man they refer to is foreign, while this (the Qur'ân) is a clear Arabic tongue."

Sura 2:106
"Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?"

I think we can ascertain that Muhammed was NOTHING like Jesus.

1 Peter 2:21-25;
"To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."[5] 23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls."

Mathew 7:15 – 20
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

He fell sick and died in 632 ad.

END

Theres a lot more stuff I covered but as you can see;- space won't permit.

Regards,
kc

Posted by: kc England at July 16, 2004 6:27 AM

Welcome, Pauly. I'm one of the passionate people you were warned about. KC, great post.

Again,

A guy named Muhammad said, "Moon
God, I am your most willing goon.
Let's chop off a head,
And take a small girl to bed,
And call it the world's greatest boon."

Posted by: Kepha1 at July 16, 2004 6:44 AM

THSIMJ,
Stop it, you'll make me blush!!!

Pauly,
What you said about the genocide of native American-indians is of course correct , it was brutal and tragic, but that is the past. Americans will openly admit the wrong doings of their ancestors.
The threat muslims pose is present here and now, but you won't hear of one single muslim condemning the actions of terrorists, or any that will even admit the megalomania speach in the Q'ran.

Posted by: Rikki at July 16, 2004 7:16 AM

Mullah Abu~ Thank you much, sir *s* I appreciate your post and have copied it out.

And just read it again. We have the United Church in our area but I am Catholic and she is Protestant. However her father's patriarchal views pushed her somewhat away from Christianity, but I and several online friends have steered her back.

There is a Lot more to this story, but the topic is not one most here might be familiar with and I won't distract.

The wedding is outdoors, on the shores of the lake where her families' cottage lies. A Blessing by the Catholic church is in place, and the gentleman taking our vows is a Catholic priest.

And I am ranting, I can always tell. Need more sleep.

Later!

Posted by: Gary at July 16, 2004 8:42 AM

Thank you so much KC!

That was a great summarizing. I feel that I got a good condensed history lesson there. I can see how that all could come about. You helped me out greatly to learn a little bit of what this religion is based on and how they react to others.

Now I guess the question is, do they all believe like that and how do you deal with the ones who do. Like I said before, s