We must be reminded that terrorism has other attributes other than bombings. Terrorists are those that infiltrate for the purpose of overthrowing the government and the culture by any means possible. These people are part of that arm of the jihadist culture.

Posted by: epg at August 15, 2004 6:39 AM

human rights lawyer Aamer Anwar

This should read....."Count Dracula activist for vampire victims"

Thats how ridiculous these people are......why people and the media swallow this pile of Sh*** staggers belief.

Posted by: Joe Bananas at August 15, 2004 7:12 AM

Ah yes, the many roles of sleeper cells and their coherts, they would like to undermine our financial institutions,civil structure,elections, and any other thing they think that punk mohaamad says to them. It is very encouraging to see all the recent arrests being made across the globe and to see some American appreciation at the Olympics,I think people (excluding politicians) are starting to get the picture and are willing to make a stand.

Posted by: Chuck at August 15, 2004 8:20 AM

Islamists would prefer that we just allowed them to commit their various forms of jihad without offering any resistance.

It makes it easier for them to force us into submission, which they're trying their hardest to do through our own laws and education system.

They also refuse to adapt to our way of life, but fully expect us to adapt to theirs.... so we see the deterioration of our cultural and traditional heritage in the west, while bending over backwards to try and please them.

Seeing as these sentiments aren't reciprocated in any Islamic nations, then those who come here and don't want to adapt to our tolerant society, can go back to their own countries, where the Islamic way of life is clearly what they really want.

Posted by: Nannette at August 15, 2004 8:29 AM

In the first tape of Bin Laden made after 9/11/2001, he is shown exhibiting a kind of cosy mirth with his associates. He has one question for a visitor who appears from the outside world: how is the rate of conversion (reversion) to Islam going? He is delighted to learn (wrongly, as it turns out) that the rate of conversion to Islam in Holland, for example, has shot up after the attacks.

Why is this not a detail but significant? One forgets thatBin Laden's goal is not terrorism; that is a mere tactic; his goal is to ensure that the conditions for the spread of Islam across the globe (not all at once, of course -- Western Europe most susceptible to Da'wa, black Africa most susceptible to outright force, East Asia hardly susceptible at all to either) are created.

For Bin Laden, as for Tariq Ramadan (just given a three-year professorship at Notre Dame, where his careful attempt to separate Christianity from its roots in Judaism can proceed, funded by American Christian donors to a 501(c)(3) non-profit, without much hindrance, as he attempts to conduct his sly Da'wa.

These articles on terrorists are important, but they should not obscure the larger question. Islam is a danger and a failure. Though left-wing critics such as Hitchens like to talk about "Islamofascism" -- as if this were simply an illegitimate mutant of Islamic doctrine -- Islam itself is profoundly akin to Fascism in many ways. In this connection, one ought to read, to familiarize oneself with, and to distribute to those capable of thought, the essay by Ibn Warraq on "Islam, the Middle East, and Fascism" (simply google "Ibn Warraq" "Islam" and "Fascism" simultaneously),

Terrorism gets the attention. Da'wa, and demographic conquest from within Western Europe and ultimately North America (the glittering prize) is the real threat. If Islam is not understood, or if those who are listened to belong to the small army of apologists, both Muslim and non-Muslim, so that a real understanding is prevented (it is extraordinary that most of those in whose hands the teaching of undergraduates about Islam has been entrusted are themselves such apologists; their presentation of the matter is slyly designed to win over, and misinform, ignorant undergraduates, taught to trust their professors, and unwilling to believe that wholesale propaganzing can be taking place -- but it is, and right under the negligent eyes of alumni, parents, and of course the fearful administrations, whose faculty deans and presidents do not believe they know enough about Islam, to be able to judge for themselves, and in any case are fearful of getting into that hornets' nest.

It is as if, in 1939, all those teaching international relations and European history were presentable proponents of the idea that Germans had been "terribly humiliated" by World War I, that the English in particular had caused the Weimar Republic unemployment, that Germans deserved whatever Lebensraum they demanded, and that HItler wanted peace, peace, only peace -- and that just as today Tariq Ramadan tells us soothingly that all that ails modern Western man can be successfully treated by the "reversion" to Islam -- indeed, as he was born in the WEst, and vastly prefers the West (without realizing that what is good about the West comes precisely out of its Judeo-Christian civilization, and would not, for one minute, survive under Islam -- much less have been produced in a Muslim world), he likes to insist that the real heart of Islam will be that West, and not the Middle East that, secretly, he cannot bear, and cannot admit to himself why he cannot bear it (Islam itself is the problem).

But that is what is happening, and the only way to change things is the power of the purse -- alumni must withhold contributions until university administrations begin, with the help of students, to monitor what is being fed to students in courses relative to Islam, what books they read, what is said in class; students should be permitted to tape-record any class -- well, let those class tapes be listened to. If anyone shrieks about "academic free speech" then one can simply raise, as a matter of national security, the deliberate and systematic use of the classroom for sly propaganda. Let the American Association of University Professors, like the ACLU, take on the wrong issue. Let the professors be made to worry that their refusal to examine the real tenets of Islam will now be subject to review, and one can even provide a list of ten essential matters that can be examined: Jihad, dhimmitude, the division of the world between dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb, the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya, the treatment of apostates under Islam, the "Jizya" and all other legal disabilities imposed on non-Muslims (including those who were permited to be treated as "honorary" ahl al-Kitab, Zoroastrians and Hindus -- who were more valuable as live dhimmis paying to support their Muslim conquerors), the treatment of women (and here the work done by Azam Kamquian and others should be available to students), the ability of Islam to change, or to be re-interepreted; the life of Muhammad in all of its detail (Aisha, the slaughter of the Bani Qurayza, everything -- not simply the wonderful "pax Islamica" he supposedly brought to he warring tribes of the Arabian peninsula; recent studies in the origins of Islam (Wansbrough, Crone, Cook, Luxenberg, and so on); Islam and human rights (here the Iranian exiles, such as Reza Afshari, are unanwersable and unanswered).

In other words, the days when the study of Islam were to be relegated to those practicing taqiyya or kitman, some not out of maliciousness but out of their own filial piety, or even at times ignorance, have to go. Back to the days of Arthur Jeffery, Margoliouth, Joseph Schacht, and all the great scholars of Islam who, in the current environment, would never last in academic life, and would be run out town on a rail. Real scholarship now has to be found, in this field, outside the regular departments, among those somehow able to find support.

It can be done. It must be done. The time for nonsense and lies is over.

Posted by: Hugh at August 15, 2004 10:40 AM

Nannette;

I commend you on your well educated observation. A few years ago, I didn’t know what a Muslim was much less what they were doing to the rest of the world. After reading everything I could find - pro and con - I came to the very conclusion you have rightly stated. One thing I would like to add to it, if I may - everything we do has limits. Driving a car is a good example. On good roads and good weather, we can drive the posted speed. However, in extreme weather, we set the limit according to the weather. It is time that the leaders and all citizens of the West realize the Muslims are now going beyond the limits and as in a speeding car will face dire consequences of their own making. The citizens of the West will get the blame.

Posted by: THSIMJ at August 15, 2004 11:36 AM

The delight of Muslims at the 'reported' increase in conversion rates after 9/11 is an important common thread between the obvious 'terrorist' Bin Laden and so-called 'moderate Muslims' intentionally hiding, and outright denying, their 'affiliation' with the likes of Bin Laden and groups actively calling for violent Jihad to spread Islam.

Take a look at Muslim Student Association web sites in the United States and Canada, any one of them (all obviously well financed...from where?): these sites will usually steer clear of radical rhetoric and repudiate terrorism with statements like: 'there are no Muslim terrorists'... But look the site over and I bet you will find SOMETHING on the increase of 'interest and conversion' to Islam after 9/11.

Why in the world would anyone be proud of that? If Catholic 'terrorists' blew up Saint Paul's cathedral, and English Protestants converted to Catholicism because of it, would the Pope and priests worldwide congratulate one another on the 'new converts'?

This shows both the genuine viciousness of so-called 'moderate Muslim groups' and the truth under the deception and the lies. These groups are actively engaged in Jihad, but under a different guise.

Posted by: JTF at August 15, 2004 11:57 AM

Nanette said: "They also refuse to adapt to our way of life, but fully expect us to adapt to theirs.... so we see the deterioration of our cultural and traditional heritage in the west, while bending over backwards to try and please them."

Forgive the crudeness, but it seems that the West is bending over forward.................

Posted by: lafn at August 15, 2004 4:52 PM

Would think all Western countries have their lists
of Terrorists unless they are complete idiots.Good on you Bonnie Scotland : keep up the good work.Personally, I'm not worried what Hakim Ziem faces when he is returned to Algeria. If Islam is so wonderful, he should be happy with being tortured and put to death by Brother Muslims.All part of jolly old Sharia, doncha know
...

Posted by: Morgane at August 16, 2004 12:56 AM

As I used to say,I am not an American neither am I a westerner but as a lover of freedom, I so much love what the west is doing in fighting the terror.
It is not surprising that things like these are happening in the UK, i.e. getting the lists of terrorist who are as usual Muslims.
I remembered one time when asked, the president of my country who is a christian but was attacked by the introduction of Sharia law to the muslims in the muslim regions of my country said "Sharia will die a natural death". I strongly believe this but I still count it very wise to catalyse its(shariah) death as fast as possible.
The Algerian (assylum) is afraid to go back home, why?! is that not his country?! I guess the effect of Islam had been seen and he's trying to run away from reality.

The muslims want to have freedom, because they needs to be free,but their problem is that they also want to have sharia which is the arab's word for the opposite of freedom. Muslims out there, you cannot eat your cake and still have it, it can never be possible.
I will like it if America can introduce this as an addition to anti-terror law, any foreigner in the US who has a citizenship status or residency status or an illegal immigrant and is caught in terrorists act should be killed!
it only takes a bullet to kill an Idiot!
No chance for endless court case, because they dont give such advantages to christians or others in their country.
if two or three of these idiots are killed, others will know how to simply adapt to simple laws.
Thanks for listening.
Written by,
Ayatollah Dase (SWT).

Posted by: Dase at August 16, 2004 2:31 PM

Hugh,
The time for nonsense and lies was over long, long ago. Now we are way into the red-zone.

Posted by: Rikki at August 17, 2004 9:47 AM

"The fact Ziem has not been convicted would be an irrelevance to the Algerian authorities. His arrest would be sufficient to warrant their attention. Torture and violence are committed in their battle against terrorism. This would apply to Hakim Ziem...."

The Algerian authorities sound like very sensible people to me. Shame more western leaders arent more like Bouteflika, who sticks 2 fingers up to the human rights activists and shoots any terrorist.

Posted by: tranmere_rover at August 18, 2004 11:25 PM