Dear Robert Spencer,
I'd like to point out that I am on a library CPU and I've just been on the "Chechens follow al qeada manual..." thread, and seen Reza's pathetic comment. I then attempted to sign in and the thread was instantly recategorixed as a "criminal skill/race hate site".

As Rezas comment is the only one on there I think it's obvious that he is the culprit who is purposely using words which will activate the library un-PC filters.
I think this is a perfectly legitimate reason to stop Reza coming to this site, he has an obvious agenda.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 8:42 AM

Because I can't comment on the other thread with Reza's crappy comment I'll reply here:

Reza,
Children are dead because of your out-of control death cult and it's insane folowers ( who are following lies from the devil allah).Children Reza, and it is no-ones fault other than the germs who hijacked them:muslims are you saying that you condone this.Maybe we should start stooping to your level and hijacking a few muslim schools ,see how you like that, but it's wrong for infidels to do it right, because you are doing it for a cause?
And what cause is that I wonder?Is it ,as the left would have us believe, because of the gaza strip conflict,or because we have "invaded iraq for oil", or because chechnya wants independance? Is it fuck? The real "cause" is your stinking islamic caliphate, which I urge you to believe, is never going to happen, the world are seeing you for the scum you really are, and soon ,as became of the nazis in WWII, your evil cult will be eradicated.Islam is a plague, the cure is only just beggining.

Do you really think your opinion is worth any more than squat here?

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 8:59 AM

Your rediculous claims, "Rikki", are transparent lies. There is no "hate speech" or profanity in my posts. On the contrary, a large portion of the other posters here, including most obviously yourself, freely call for murder, torture, and genocide of Muslims in the most vile, profane, and blasphemous manner imaginable. Of course, the obvious irrationality and illiteracy of many of those posts probably fool any screening software. Most of you raving bigots are probably safe until such software is dumbed down enough to recognize your infantile, brain-damaged spewing of hatred for what it is.

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at September 4, 2004 8:59 AM

Let me tell you that tonite, for fun, me and my friends are going to travel around the country splattering pigs blood allover every mosk and muslim we see.Your fake religion is a meaningless pile of lies, idiocy and garbage, and all who believe it are worthless scum deserving of nothing less than agonizing death.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 8:59 AM

Reza,
No one is more full of hate than you and your parasitic culture.
I hate muslims for a very good reason, because they hate us, and kill innocent children believing it is for some kind of good.
In fact hate is not a strong enough word, I absolutely fucking revile muslims with all my heart and soul, genocide is to good for you, I'd only find satisfaction in the knowledge that evry last one of you burns in hell for the suffering you've caused.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 9:04 AM

Rikki:

You actually got a response from Reza! She/he rarely responds to the numerous overwhelming rebutals generated by her/him comments.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 9:28 AM

I don't know who Reza is, but ya'll go ahead and flame. I DO know who John Kerry is, and he seems to not care very much about this savage butchery:

Kerry Ignores Terrorism
ATLANTA (GoodNewsAmerica.us) September 04, 2004 - On a day filled with the horror of terrorism in Russia and the nation reminded of the possibility of terrorism in America, Presidential Candidate John Kerry has failed to address the subject. The Kerry campaign has released no statements condemning the terrorist acts in Russia as so many others throughout the world have done, nor have any recent speeches confronted the issue of terrorism.

The horror of innocents held captive, where weak and fleeing children are shot in the back by Islamic terrorists while the world watches has not caught his attention. The malicious slaughter of 250 people without hesitation was not enough for Mr. Kerry to notice. The fact that 10 of the terrorists were Arab and the suicide bombers were trained by Al-Quaeda was not worthy of mention.

Kerry has not sent his condolences to the Russian people either as a Presidential candidate, or as a United States Senator.

In an midnight speech Friday morning on the heals of the President's acceptance of the Republican nomination, Kerry failed to bring up the topic of terrorism. There was also no mention of what he would do to defend the United States. The words terror, terrorism, nor security were present in the speech.

The President has personally called President Putin to express his support and condolences. From the campaign trail in Wisconsin the President declared the hostage crisis as "another grim reminder" of what terrorists will do. Scott McClellan says the President believes the slaughter to be "despicable", and that America stands side-by-side with Russia.

"We grieve with Russia on this tragic day - [t]he blame for this lies squarely with the terrorists," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Friday morning.
http://goodnewsamerica.us/news.php?extend.208

Posted by: numberonepal at September 4, 2004 9:36 AM

I've been lurking on this blog for the past week and can say I'm glad to have found this great resource. I'm horrified by an overreaching silence here in America and around the world about the threat of Islamic fundamentalism. I'm equally horrified about how 'lefties' like myself have reacted towards islamic fundamentalism, as if they had deposited their brains, hearts and free will that God gave them, on the side of the road.

I'm glad to be here.
Henry Bemis

Posted by: HenryBemis at September 4, 2004 9:40 AM

I've been lurking on this blog for the past week and can say I'm glad to have found this informative resource. I'm horrified by an overreaching silence here in America and around the world about the threat of Islamic fundamentalism. I'm equally horrified about how 'lefties' like myself have reacted towards islamic fundamentalism, as if they had deposited their brains, hearts and the free will God gave them, on the side of the road.

I'm glad to be here.
Henry Bemis

Posted by: HenryBemis at September 4, 2004 9:45 AM

HenryBemis,
Glad to see one of you lefties actually has a brain (or one not full of male-cow turd).

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 9:48 AM

Rikki:

like you, the rage and pain this mother is feeling right now along with hundreds of other mothers and fathers has to be overwhelming. The deep sadness and shock of such evil acts will soon turn to anger.

One of the terrorists was caught by some of the crowd and was literlly torn apart by them. Imagine the incredible nerve of one of these terrorists (a female) dressing up as a nurse and going to the nearby hospital to see if she could attack the allready injured children. Fortunatly she was caught. I certainly do understand your anger after reading (Sophie`s choice).

Reza is obviously of the fundamental,radical mindset (what have you) but he/she does not represent the thinking of most muslims, even though the Quran is full of lesser jihadist suras` as well as the Hadiths (traditions of Mohammed)

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 9:50 AM

Henry, welcome aboard. When it comes to the threat of Islamofascism, lefties & righties must come together as ONE AMERICA! Spread the word...this is a wonderful site to get the "real deal" news.

Posted by: daughter of patriots at September 4, 2004 9:51 AM

Choose between your kids? How obscenely gruesome! Like having to choose between your eyes, which one willya keep....?!

Was trapped in a familar debate with lefties the other day and all my points on islamofascism rather than being met with rebuttals are met with 'counter incidents' from the west and christianity's past and fringe present.

Now I'm determined to avoid the folly of making ANY kind of moral equivalence between the 2. There is none! Fellow, anti jihad warriors, do not be drawn into a debate thats eeks to equate the christian right to islamofascists. There is no equivalence, or even remote comparision here!

Posted by: voletti at September 4, 2004 9:53 AM

Mackie,

The Koran is NOT full of "lesser jihad" surahs. Additionally, there is only ONE hadith which refers to the "lesser jihad" idea. There are hundreds of hadiths which make use the word jihad in the context of military conquest.

Does this ONE hadith outweigh the hundreds of others which say something completely contrary?

Posted by: Suzan at September 4, 2004 9:54 AM

Morgane,
Seems we've finally found a way to yank Reza's crank.
If she'd just stop being so racist,stop worshipping the Devil(allah) and stop visting those pig-zoos they call mosks, I'm sure she'd be able to find peace with us, her future masters.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 9:56 AM

Reza, demolish the mosks, stop reading your book of lies and hate, and sucumb to the freedom of infidelity, or stay muslim and bow down to your masters the INFIDELS.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 9:56 AM

Mackie,
What also pisses me off is the heartlessness of some frigging lefties.
That cantankerous whore Vanessa Redgrave was on C4 news last night ,after a report on the slaughter in Beslan, and even after hearing that children have been butchered by these lowlifes had the audacity to say it is the Russian government who are the terrorists for opressing the chechens (and that the US government are also terrorists, yeah of course russians and americans are always hijacking schools and passenger planes).

None of her ridiculous and sickeningly insensitive arguments held any weight,or reason and it defies logic why; even after this, they still have a totally scrambled worldview, and see chechens and muslims in general, as the victims.

*What the hell have muslims ever done to earn this kind of defensive support from these hideous leftist cretins? You'd think islam would be a target of their opposition , with all the intolerant messages encompassed within islamic culture, but instead it seems to take precedence over every other minority, or victimized group.

If anyone can answer me that question (the one with * before it) I'd be eternally grateful.It baffles me daily.

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 10:14 AM

"*What the hell have muslims ever done to earn this kind of defensive support from these hideous leftist cretins? You'd think islam would be a target of their opposition , with all the intolerant messages encompassed within islamic culture, but instead it seems to take precedence over every other minority, or victimized group."

Muslims hate America and Western Civilization in general -- and that is good enough for the lefist loons. Leftists want to destroy Western Civ. They thought Commmunism would do it, but the West survived. Now they see something even more toxic than Communism for destroying the West. Yippee, say the leftists, sign me up!

Posted by: Suzan at September 4, 2004 10:20 AM

Guys:

Reza has actually been responding to posts on two different threads. This means that we are really starting to get to her and she's completely LOST her former air of cool detachment. This Russian event must be so humiliating and degrading for a muslim living in the West and aware of western mores, as she realizes on SOME level just how horrific this is and how it jeopardizes the "image" of her entire ummah. The muslims are once again showing us the TRUTH of their cult through their own actions, the world is awakening and SHE CAN'T STAND IT!

She's now stooping to actually engage infidels. Of course, she can't stay away from us and feels compelled to associate with us on a daily basis. It's only a matter of time . . .

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 10:23 AM

CGW,
Amen Brother!!!

Posted by: Rikki at September 4, 2004 10:28 AM

Hi Henry, I have been lurking on this site for about a year and like you, I am a former liberal. Actually still a liberal about many things but not foreign policy. And not about the biggest threat to our civilization that we have ever faced. People are waking up to it more and more thanks to websites like this and people like you and all the others started out with the intellectual curiousity to try to figure out "Why are they doing this and why"

Posted by: mortgagemaven at September 4, 2004 10:37 AM

Suzan:

There are nearly 24,000 hadiths supposedly attributed to Mohammed, there actually use to be over 60,000 of them. The lesser Jihad is defined as a call to militancy, where as the greater jihad calls for peaceful resolutions to conflicts.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 10:43 AM

To illustrate my point about Reza's apparent distress over the image of her ummah:

"Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist, wrote in his column in Egypt's leading pro-government newspaper, Al-Ahram, that hostage-takers in Russia as well as in Iraq are only harming Islam.

"If all the enemies of Islam united together and decided to harm it ... they wouldn't have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations, and misunderstanding of the nature of this age," Bahgat wrote.

The horrifying images of the dead and wounded Russian students "showed Muslims as monsters who are fed by the blood of children and the pain of their families."

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 10:52 AM

And again re Reza:

"What is the guilt of those children (in Russia)? Why should they be responsible for your conflict with the government?" Egypt's top Muslim cleric, Grand Sheik Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, was quoted as saying during a Friday sermon in Banha, 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Cairo.

"You are taking Islam as a cover and it is a deceptive cover; those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims," Tantawi, who heads Al-Azhar University, the highest authority in the Sunni Islamic world, was quoted by Egypt's Middle East News agency as saying.

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 10:57 AM

Mackie,

You are right. I had a brain fart and wrote exactly the opposite of what I meant to say. What I meant to say is that the alleged "lesser jihad" (military conqest), is given far more prominence in the Quran and the Hadiths than the so-called "greater jihad" (inner struggle) which is only mentioned in one single hadith that I know of.

Therefore one can only conclude that the alleged "lesser jihad" (violent and militant conquest) is really the more important concept in Islam.

Posted by: Suzan at September 4, 2004 11:01 AM

Rikki:

I think most of us have dealt or enter acted with the blame America crowd before.

It is difficult to understand that mindset. Most of what I have read about that thinking has been attributed to the left thinking Ideology and not necessarily always a liberal mindset , most of us have some liberal positions on things.

Most left wingers seem to operate without a strong foundation and understanding of the great history of America. Thus they seem to have trouble embracing all that America stands for.

If you look at the demographics of todays left wing voters(almost exclusively democrat) you will see a huge difference in education ,job skills,serving time in prison, lower income, and usually will have had some bad experiences growing up in America etc. -- They are usually the first to call out for government handouts and make up the biggest users of entitlements in America. And those are some of the reasons why they tend to want to blame America first.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 11:04 AM

Reza,

As a person who has been taught to avoid conflicts and violence and be careful not to wrongfully judge anyone, I would like to comment.

As yet, I do not call for murder, torture, and genocide of Muslims and try to avoid vile, profane, and blasphemous attitudes.. I have tried to read as much information as possible concerning the Muslim “religion” with an open mind to try and understand the Muslim point of view. Then I compare that with the events that is taken place around the world. I have to tell you - I was very disturbed at the picture I see. When people are taken hostage, used as pawns, beaten, and then beheaded is enough to cause a person to get angry and vent their feelings. As if these crimes were not bad enough, now one of the most heinous crimes has been committed at the school in Russia. It one thing to commit heinous crimes against adults - but to innocent children? Stop and look at the picture. That more than confirms what doctrine of the Muslim cult is. The likes of that, I wouldn’t call it a religion. I don’t know what “Rikkis’” views are, but after the deliberate murders that has taken place in Russia, I would be careful about stating “transparent lies.” You stated once - “you reap what you sow.” Be careful - for what you will reap will be a disaster.

Posted by: THSIMJ at September 4, 2004 11:10 AM

Yes, I too, can't fathom why leftists continually excuse and apologize for these lunatics. The Gruesome Twosome (Lefties and Islamics) hate the West, the Jews and the Christians. They are both speech and thought gestapo. They are both humourless and look for offense and villification in every word you say. Yet the Left stupidly think they are allies when in reality Islamics are just using them. The Islamics loathe lefties because they are mostly atheists and support homosexuality and equality for women - the first two being death sentences in Islam and the third totally preposterous in Islam.

I get tired of being labelled a xenophobe and bigot when I point out the atrocious beliefs of Islam. The Left is blind to the reality. They don't want to know. Why? Because in our country, Australia, the Left (Labor party) desperately need the Muslim vote to get into power. Statistics show that Muslims support the Greens (loony Communists) and the Labor (left) parties the most. Why? Because they have open-door policies as far as "refugees" and don't think there should be any limits to welfare. So they try to shout the rest of us down when it comes to expressing concern about the lunacy of Islamic beliefs and actions. Because it's all about political power. The Left will whore themselves for the Muslim vote, sell our souls and screw us over, for power.

Posted by: feralee at September 4, 2004 11:15 AM

The unspeakable cruelty that is inflicted on innocent human beings is taking it's toll on ordinary humanity. It's no secret that Muslims believe that if your not Muslim, you are beneath contempt -- no matter what they say out of their lying mouths. We are watching, carefully paying attention to the torture and murder being waged on the innocent, the brutality heaped on anyone unfortunate to have Muslims as neighbors. We hear the platitudes and empty reassurance.

If we weep in frustration and anger about what happens a half a world away imagine what those in the eye of the jihadist hurricane must be going through...

Ordinary people are becoming more and more radicalized by the actions of these 'peace loving' Muslims and the inaction of the governments that shelter them.

People will not tolerate this much longer. Something's coming and I'm afraid to even say out loud what it is.

Posted by: Kemaste at September 4, 2004 11:24 AM

On the "Chechen terrorists follow . . . " thread Reza DEFENDS the actions of the muslims in killing the Russian schoolchildren, calling the terrorists "brave freedom fighters".

She must just be so . . . PROUD.

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 11:25 AM

Of course Reza defends the actions of the terrorists in Russia for the following reasons:

1. Russia is thwarting the world-domination of Islam, and thus their women and children are targets.

2. As Muslims see non-Muslims in a jaundiced light, being "unclean" and wrong-thinking, either the must be "persuaded" to come to Islam or allow Islam to have it's way, or they must die.

Reza obviously doesn't care about group other than Muslims. Beware, Reza, you have awakened the sleeping giant that will turn on you.

Posted by: epg at September 4, 2004 11:55 AM

Hey folks, some good news on an unrelated story.

One carp against Bush I had was that he'd allowed Pakistan to continue to carry nukes despite the godsent AQ Khan scandal implicating Pakistan in a veriitable nuke black mkt selling to rougues like libya, Iran and NK.
Well, apparently the Bush admin did make some contingency arrangements. here goes:

" To prevent the "Islamic bomb" from falling into religious terrorist hands, the American 15th Marine Expeditionary unit is ready to "neutralize" Pakistan's weapons of mass destruction even at the cost of engaging Pakistani troops."

Read it all at
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FI04Df03.html

SO something's moving somewhere outside the glare of limelight I guess.

Posted by: voletti at September 4, 2004 11:57 AM

In response to Reza: I have thought long and hard wether I should respond to the words of Reza, for I am sure there is nothing I can say that will influence his perspective. So it goes with the rest of the Islamic fundamentalists, we cannot appease them, cajole them or make bargains with them. If they threaten us, which they have, there is nothing we can do short of killing them or imprisoning them.

The great majority of Muslims, however are not of this sort, and although many may be suspicious of the west, they dont spend their days thinking of how to do us in. More likely given the conditions in much of the Muslim and particularly the Arab world, they are concerned about feeding, clothing and educating their children. In short like us they are likely trying to live there lives peaceably.

As for Reza, responding as many of you have, although understandable, just feeds a hate frenzy which is not productive. Reza feeds on this, confirming his beliefs and not changing anything.

Reza and people like him can be dangerous if they put their thoughts to action. That is where I draw the line. He can say all he wants and irritate the hell out of all of you, but presently they are just words and you will not change him.

Like I said Islamic Fundamentalists are our enemies. When their words come to actions we have no choice but to eliminate them. It is wrong to assume that the entire Islamic world, although dysfunctional, should bear the brunt of our anger.

By the way Reza, given that you are clearly an educated person given your command of the English language, how can you support this form of Islam when all human reason and logic militates against the killing of innocents? If we support your hope for an all encompassing caliphate, can we hope for better? Will the murderous nature of your Jihadists be eliminated or are they the true face of your idea of Islam? Your view does not promote a loving god or a vibrant healthy faith but one of death and darkness. That is why your dream will never happen.

Oded

Posted by: Oded at September 4, 2004 12:00 PM

Mackie,

"If you look at the demographics of todays left wing voters(almost exclusively democrat) you will see a huge difference in education ,job skills,serving time in prison, lower income,"

I regret to inform you that many left wing voters have a very high level of "education." I would even venture to say even higher on the average than right wing voters in terms of college degrees and PhD's, etc..., but I inserted the sneer quotes for a very good reason:

Like most places of higher "education" in the U.S. (or all the West for that matter), most of the faculty at my university are pretty solidly in favor of Kerry. A cursory look at the social studies curricula should tell you why so many faculty lean to the left. A cursory survey of books dealing with Islam in any bookstore should tell you why so many bookish people are similarly inclined. This pretty much demonstrates that not only "dumb" people are subject to indoctrination.

Believe me. I am speaking to you firsthand. I was there until I read the Koran. It was the barbarity of the Koran that liberated me from the leftist lies. We are seeing a terrible waste of intelligence. And Sam Harris, a secular humnist refusnik, hit the nail on the head in this interview with Dennis Prager:

"I think it’s profoundly ironic that most sensible statements about Islam to appear in our culture have come from our own religious dogmatics."
Sam Harris

A DIALOGUE WITH A SECULARIST by Dennis Prager
Townhall August 24, 2004
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/6806

Consequently, even though I consider myself a secular humanist, I thank God (or fate?) that I grew up in a Judeo-Christian society, that has avoided the total moral confusion of a post-Christian Europe.

Posted by: Rublev at September 4, 2004 12:02 PM

Kemaste said:

"People will not tolerate this much longer."

Why should we? Why have we tolerated it to this point?

What really irks me, other that backshot children, is the "moderate" muslim's silence.

Where is the outrage from these apologists of the cult of death?

Why am I surprised? The deathists kill their own in large numbers, i.e. The Sudan.

But that is okay in the eyes of the champions; they are just niggers, persons worthy of death as the infidels are.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at September 4, 2004 12:03 PM

Tic, Tic, Tic... the time is coming for an end to all this jihad crap. It won't be long now. Russia, show the PC West the way!

Posted by: Bill_Carson at September 4, 2004 12:09 PM

Indeed, where is the outrage??

On another thread Hugh concluded:

"And not until the governments of the Infidel states make clear some of the conseuqences -- beyond rounding up the actual perpetrators and immediate supporters and financiers of this or that terrorist act -- there will continue to be, with increasing ferocity and force, such acts.

One thing to consider might be announcing, as has been said before, that the roads into and out of Mecca, for the hajj, will be systematically reduced, until only one path is left. And then that too may be removed, and then there will only be a way in, perhaps, by airplane or helicopter. Without harming Mecca itself in any way, the path in, and the path out, can be reduced. This is simply one idea; many more may come to the minds of others. But there has to be some thinking along these lines, instead of the endless appeasement that can be seen worldwide, and certainly, most obviously, in the crazed refusal to put the epithets "Muslim" and "Islamcic" before the word "terrorism."

Moreover, as Reza correctly notes about the EU:

"The European Union is demanding an accounting from the Russian authorities for their savage actions. Why did they not negotiate peacefully with those in the school? Instead, they stormed the building, resulting in the deaths of many people, including more than 20 of the brave freedom fighters who were drawing the attention of the world to the actions of the Russian colonial regime"

Aside from the characteristic inflamatory spin of Reza's comments, the EU has now in effect, taken sides in the jihad.

Through logical extention, the EU has given its approval for the murderous actions taken by the islamists. Naturally, they will deny it, but in all intellectual honesty, they are now, themselves, jihadists.

Hugh's conclusion in the aforementioned post on a previous thread is well thought out as always, but is fatally flawed because it is nothing more than containment, management, and appeasement.

The theory that Hugh puts forth presumes that merely limiting access to places such as Mecca during the hajj, will somehow sway the islamists into a negotiated peace settlement.

It ignores the fact that many islamists never have the opportunity in their lifetimes to actually set foot in mecca during the hajj, but are islamists nonetheless. (True, the house of Saud will pay for travel and expenses to any islamist unable to afford the journey, but not every is able to take them up on the offer.)

The theory advanced by Hugh also ignores the fact, that such an embargo on mecca during the hajj -- which in the PC west will never occur -- would actually have the reverse effect by providing greater impetus to murderous acts against children.

A final solution to the islamic question must include the collaborative effort of the various military, police, civilian, and political bodies.

Among these institutions, there must be agreement as to the seriousness of the islamic threat.

Currently, there is no such agreement; no consensus; and no resolution possible other than appeasement.

When vital changes are made in the collective thought of the west, a final solution must be devised. It must have financing; infrastructure; organization; and proper legislation. It must be engineered, meticulously planned, and implemented with unwavering resolution. It must be industrialized for efficiency and full effect.

Unlike the islamists, people in the west have very short memories and attention spans. Therefore, they must be constantly reminded why a final solution was ever needed. This must be done through the educational processes and through western media.

One cringes at the thought of a new moral standard or what might be "the morals of brutality." But such a moral code of brutality is already in place, as evidenced by what happened to the school children in Russia.

Finally, I must conclude that currently, the islamist have not murdered enough children to date to justify a final solution. Sadly, more innocents will be required before the people of the west will have the stomach to do what it takes to defeat the unified islamists.

At this point, I doubt the people of the west will ever have the stomach for real action other than windy blusters about doing this or that.

I could be wrong, but the future will tell the story.

Posted by: witness at September 4, 2004 12:10 PM

If JTF is around:

As a lark, I tried to find that Nostradamus quatrain I mentioned. I still haven't found it (I'm still looking) but I did find this one:

Century VI

21
When those of the arctic pole are united together,
Great terror and fear in the East:
Newly elected, the great trembling supported,
Rhodes, Byzantium stained with Barbarian blood.

Those "of the arctic pole" are widely believed to be the US and Russia.

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 12:14 PM

We have tolerated it because our leaders have forced us to tolerate it. Because the liberal have shoved down our throats the suicidal poison of political correctness. Because defending oneself is more despicable that directing the pinpoint laser of rationality at an enemy who wants to annihilate you, because being liked is more important than being safe.

Those who are responsible are the ones who have allowed, no, demanded that Yasser Arafat be kept safe. That bastard is the godfather of all terrorism and the terrorists in Israel, Russia, Iraq, Iran, and all the other countries infected by this parasite are his progeny.

"Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz

Posted by: Kemaste at September 4, 2004 12:16 PM

Oded said:

"So it goes with the rest of the Islamic fundamentalists..."

There is no such thing as an "Islamic NON-fundamentalist. It is impossible because Muhammad's dictats include that the words of the Koran are directly from Allah's mouth. There will be no interpretation. Period.

Oded said:

"The great majority of Muslims, however are not of this sort..."

Really? Then where is their outrage? No outrage about killing atheistic Russians or captilistic Americans may be understandable for they are just inferior infidels. But what of their black muslim brothers in Africa, whom they annihilate with relish?

Oded said:

"Your view does not promote a loving god or a vibrant healthy faith but one of death and darkness."

This is not Reza's view, but the view of Muhammad. The one who is considered to be a model of humaneness.

Get real. There is nothing to consider of this tripe. Islam is bullsh*t.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at September 4, 2004 12:18 PM

Fox News just report explosion at L.A airport?

Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her open their eyse to the ISLAMIC TERRORIST give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 4, 2004 12:22 PM

Henry Bemis,

Glad to hear that I am not the only liberal who disappointed with the sorry state of liberalism today.

I rarely respond to Reza's doggerel because as someone who never had any first hand experience with Islam, I don't feel qualified to persuade Muslims to leave Islam. Such a job is better left to the ex-Muslims at faithfreedom.org.

However, as liberal refusniks, we are VERY qualified to win over Islam apologists from the left. Unlike our new friends on the right, we are better versed on liberal arguments and nuanced persuasion. Forum conservatives may wince at my use of the word "nuance," but liberals respect and respond to nuanced arguments. Terrorists will not. That is why conservatives are better at dealing with terrorists, but lousy at persuating liberals. Their blunt comments are interpreted by liberals as further evidence of their "bigotry," even when they're right. Liberal's nuanced arguments are interpreted as "weakness" by terrorists, even when its not.

If you want to see how liberalism looked at Islam in the past, check out these quotes I collected:

http://www.nojihad.com/contributors/rubisco/rubiscopage.htm

Posted by: Rublev at September 4, 2004 12:25 PM

Rublev's link provided quotes of mankind's past great thinkers. Here is one that hits the nail on the head:

"It is a misfortune to human nature when religion is given by a conqueror. The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword, acts still upon men with that destructive spirit with which it was founded."

Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de Montesquieu (1689-1755) "The Spirit of

Laws: Book XXIV, Chapter IV" (1748)

___________________________________

Rublev,

Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at September 4, 2004 12:40 PM

Rikki

"*What the hell have muslims ever done to earn this kind of defensive support from these hideous leftist cretins? You'd think islam would be a target of their opposition , with all the intolerant messages encompassed within islamic culture, but instead it seems to take precedence over every other minority, or victimized group.

If anyone can answer me that question (the one with * before it) I'd be eternally grateful.It baffles me daily."

I think the answer is the target of the left (speaking as an ex-leftist myself) is Western culture in general, and in particular Christianity, as the native religion of most of the West. They want Christianity bringing down because it challenges their right to self-express and make up their own moral universe. To that end they will do anything, try anything to pursue the goal. Communism, fascism, now the love affair with Islam. Their individual ignorance of any of these totalitarian systems is of course no barrier to their espousing these causes if it serves their own goal - smashing historically-accepted morality and behaviour, getting rid of tradition.

I see that many on this great site self-identify as 'Infidels'. Maybe some believe that's what they are, or maybe are secularists who revel in the label. For everyone else, I'd make the comment that throughout history, since the false prophet of Islam came up with his new religion, that it's the muslims who were known as the 'Infidels'. Mahommet got most of his main beliefs from Christianity, and then twisted and perverted them into what went on to become the new religion of Islam. But it was always a perversion and embroidering of Christian beliefs. So don't accept any 'Infidel' tag from the muslims.

Posted by: RunningDog at September 4, 2004 12:44 PM

Rublev,

I agree with your observation that many left wingers have a high level of education, or at a minimum are well read and keep up on current events. They're pseudo-intellectuals who have managed to shelter themselves from the real world.

I've known a few lefties and the #1 thing they have in common is that none of them actually contribute to making the world run. By that I mean that they are rarely personally responsible for building a business, bettering their community, or making material contributions to society in any way.

My theory is that they only exist at the luxury of what others have created. If you turned the keys to the world over to them and said "ok, go ahead and run things your way" one of two things would happen: either everything would fall apart, or when faced with actually having to create something, they would abandon their left wing philosophies.

There are both conservative and liberal approaches that work in the real world. What defines the true left wing is "anti-reality." Almost everything they champion is either not possible, or will lead to everyone's destruction. That includes their sypathetic support of terrorists.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at September 4, 2004 12:49 PM

Rublev:

No argument there; Berkley Etc. the universities have been havens for left wing thinking ideologs as long as I can remember.

I have enjoyed the intellectual insights of Dennis Prager for twenty years. Dennis (a Harvard Graduate) I believe said many times he would give up all his degrees` for one thing he found more important. And that is COMMON SENCE.

I think many university professors become way to full of themselves in this realm and what really bothers me is an almost iconoclastic attitude that prevails in these institutes of higher learning.

In regards to the demographics`; the definitions come from surveys, and I think the voters across the country fill some or part of those definitions and tend to embrace the negative or blame America first attitudes that come from those that have come out of these universities embracing the left wing thinking that has been fed into their collective psyche`s. You don`t reflect the true definition of secularism though as it is defined in the funkenwaggle.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 12:54 PM

Moe's Foe:

First, I made a destinction among the majority of Muslims who are too poor and voiceless to make any effort (if they indeed wanted to) at Jihad and those who are dangerous to us (a minority). They are not all Fundamentalists and in fact there are many, many secular Muslems who dont see the world that way.

I agree that much of the Muslim and particularly the arab world is dysfunctional. Democracy and freedom of speech are not common and the totalitarian regimes that govern many of these countries have had to walk a fine line in dealing with Fundamentalists in order to maintain their power. So dont expect to hear these leaders publicly join our crusade.

Having said that, there is much in the Arab media today responding to the carnage in Russia and indeed statements were made in Al Arabia confirming what we all know, that Muslims are the primary sponsers of terrorism.

I agree too little too late, however to paint all Muslims as blood thirsty terrorists is extreme. Does Islam need a reformation? You bet. Are they all our enemies? OBL would have you believe that. If we spew enough hate and divide the world into Muslims and non- Muslims, then we are no better than they are and we are doing just what OBL and his cronies want.

I say Kill or otherwise remove those that mean to do us in and keep any stragglers at bay. The rest is a war of ideas which will hopefully lead to an Islamic reformation. We cant just kill all Muslims and consider all of them our enemies.
We will need most of them to help us. The tools for that part of the war are education and economic opportunity.

Posted by: Oded at September 4, 2004 1:06 PM

Bill and Mackie,

"By that I mean that they are rarely personally responsible for building a business, bettering their community, or making material contributions to society in any way."

"I think many university professors become way to full of themselves in this realm"

Both your comments have to do with the snobbish attitude of many leftists, and their lack of skill in pratical matters. It is true that many do not make substantial contributions to the community because they feel "above" that kind of thing. When they do make contributions, you often wish they did not (Can you say "Tides" foundation?)

On the other hand, even though human rights groups like Amnesty International are dominated by liberals, and many liberals donate to this sincere (and sometimes naiive) organization. For all its faults, Amnesty International does some good things, even if its double standard with Israel is disgusting. It doesn't have to be this way:

Mark my words, a liberal who learns that he/she has been duped can be one of your most passionate supporters.

In closing, I would like to show you more quotes that are not yet on the nojihad website. Remember, Like Montesquieu, Diderot and Hume are LIBERALS :

"When government is based absolutely [or completely] on religion, such as that of the Mahometans, then its fanaticism is turned outward, and turns these people into the common enemy of mankind."

The Encyclopédie (1751-1772) edited by Denis Diderot (1713-1784) "FANATISME, Page 6:393, Paragraph 42" http://colet.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/getobject_?a.43:84./projects/artflb//databases/artfl/encyclopedie/IMAGE/

"It is true that this book abounds in contradictions, absurdities, and anachronisms, all found in great numbers. One sees clearly that there is [in this book] a profound ignorance of the simplest and best-known principles of physics, and that [surely] is the touchstone [for judging] those books which false religions claim have been written by the Divinity, for God is neither absurd nor ignorant, but the vulgar do not recognize these defects, in fact adore them, and the Imams employ torrents of words to cover them up."

The Encyclopédie (1751-1772) edited by Denis Diderot (1713-1784) "MAHOMÉTISME, Page 9:864, Paragraph 15" http://colet.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/getobject_?a.71:57./projects/artflb//databases/artfl/encyclopedie/IMAGE/

"But would we know, whether the pretended prophet had really attained a just sentiment of morals? Let us attend to his narration; and we shall soon find, that he bestows praise on such instances of treachery, inhumanity, cruelty, revenge, bigotry, as are utterly incompatible with civilized society. No steady rule of right seems there to be attended to; and every action is blamed or praised, so far only as it is beneficial or hurtful to the true believers."
David Hume (1711-1776) "Of the Standard of Taste: Paragraph 4" (1757) http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/phil%20of%20art/hume%20on%20taste.htm#p4

Posted by: Rublev at September 4, 2004 1:17 PM

Oded said:

"They are not all Fundamentalists and in fact there are many, many secular Muslems who dont see the world that way."

What is the difference in the definitions of the two words, "literalist" and "fundamentalist"?

In my view there is no difference. He lies the problem.

In the trite world of political correctness, we (including myself) have been ingrained with the idea of not calling a spade a spade. Why?

What is wrong with calling something what it is?

For some strange reason, the Western world has a problem with believing that an insidious and violent threat may be looming over their heads in the guise of a religion.

Indeed, that "religion" itself proclaims and propogates the holy idea of Jihad itself, but we cannot fanthom that. Or, I should say, we ignore this premise because our minds refuse to acknowledge it.

Islam IS literal. Islam IS fundamental.

There is no such thing as a "secular muslim" because their holy book forbids a worldly approach, but demands an adherence to the doctrines within the Koran.

A "secular muslim" therefore, is not a muslim at all.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at September 4, 2004 1:24 PM

reza is a COWARD!! Her spueing of her hate and kill all non mulsum's has come back on her?

Yes the American mother turn on the news and saw ISLAMIC TERRORIST shooting children in the back and while they piled their children to take them to school they thought Can that Happen HERE?
To my Children? The ISLAMIC people here never denounce these KILLERS? There is always a BUT

Many Americans have read the hate that is taught under ISLAM and they don't see peace?

Reza you are the one who always says the Hateful things and belive that the ISLAMIC TERRORIST ARE YOUR HERO'S they are COWARDS AS ARE YOU!!!

In other post you claim the ubl has a new video and it will be to attack America and we had better all convert?

Well we see that ubl is YELLOW and a COWARD you follow a YELLOW COWARD WHO SENDS PEOPLE TO KILL CHILDREN

Here in this country we KILL Child KILLERS and now we also KILL those who Support them IE ALL who support these killers?

You say nothing about saddam who KILLED over 300,000 People yes Iraqis and now the TERRORIST you support are KILLING IRAQI PEOPLE?

in Iran there was over 30,000 KILLED in an EARTHQUAKE! This is because they Rule by force and send Killers to KILL Jews the People of the book yes your LEADERS are leading down the PATH of DEATH and HELL so we see you are a FOLLOWER OF YELLOW COWARDS nothing more we will win this war you have started don't think otherwise WE WILL NOT BE UNDER ISLAM!

Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her OPEN their EYES to ISLAMIC TERRORIST give them Strength ,Wisdom and Courage to stay the Course to VICTORY [FREEDOM] Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 4, 2004 1:25 PM

Muslims in Russia in the late 1800s` recognized the need for reform in the Quran and hadiths and started a movement called jadidism that was an effort to get islamic ideology to comport with the new civilized and modern world. However that effort was crushed in the early 1920s` by the rise of communism in Russia.

So it is not as if there have not been efforts to change some of the militant ideology set in the tenets of the Quran and the hadiths. many muslims argue that the quran does not allow for change. Well that is not true in regards to some suras, but the problem is that the hadiths tend to come into conflict with some of the 114 suras` of the Quran.

According to Quranic teaching, Allah can change his mind and replace a verse with a later and better version.

SUCH AS WE ABROGATE OUR CAUSE TO BE FORGOTTEN, WE BRING (IN PLACE) ONE BETTER OR LIKE THEREOF.KNOWEST THOU NOT THAT ALLAH IS ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS? (SURA 2:106)--

AND WHEN WE PUT A REVELATION IN PLACE OF (ANOTHER) REVELATION AND ALLAH KNOWEST BEST WHAT HE REVEALS (SURA 16:101)

Unfortunatly militant muslims say that the latter revelations, as in (Sura 9:5.29) annul the earlier revelations (sura 2:62,256) that where tolerant of non-muslims (infidels) . They say these later Quranic suras justify jihad,that is war on infidels.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 1:39 PM

Moe, I stand corrected. All those who are Muslims by your definition should be eliminated.

Posted by: Oded at September 4, 2004 1:50 PM

Rublev and Bill:

Excellent interaction there. Rublev if you notice I usually directed my comments to the left wingers and though they are found in the liberal camp, at least you can reason with a liberal, but the definition of the left wing nut is far different than the average educated liberal. At least that is my simplistic view on it without the nuances. I agree with the way you look at the consevative and the liberal differences. they both due play an important and balancing role in our (America) country.

Posted by: Mackie at September 4, 2004 1:56 PM

"Dzandarova cried as she talked. Her tears fell on Alan, who was sleeping. Even when his mother shook quietly with sobs as she cradled him, he didn't awaken"

Depart childern of Christ,out of this world;
In the name of God the Father who created you;
In the name of Jesus Christ who redeemes you;
In the name of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies you.
May you rest this day be in peace,
and your dwelling place be high above the stars in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Amen.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 4, 2004 1:57 PM

Oded said:

"All those who are Muslims by your definition should be eliminated."

That statement is your derivation of what I said and it reflects nothing of what I intended.

I view muslims to be first and foremost the victims of Muhammadism. They have been indoctrinated from birth into the fairy tale lie perpetuated by a 7th century Jim Jones.

"Secular muslims" are better for the world, but as I stated before: they are not muslims at all.

This thought is a far cry from your blatant statement of genocide.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at September 4, 2004 2:22 PM

Mackie,

Well put. I make the same distinction you do between liberals and left-wing nuts. I believe the debates between liberals and conservatives are generally good for America. As for the left-wing nuts, I just don't see anything useful they bring to the picture. They should all have to live in North Korea for awhile.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at September 4, 2004 2:25 PM

Oded,

There may actually be value in characterizing ALL muslims as the problem, even if a large portion privately do not support islamic extremists (not that I'm convinced of that).

Making this characterization may very well pressure muslims to be more vocal about the damage extremists are doing to their "peaceful" religion.

If we focus only on the radicals, then the radicals stay only our problem; implicate all of islam and it becomes all of islam's problem.

Make the choice "either you're with us or against us," and put the pressure on that great mass of "moderate muslims" to stand up and take back their peaceful religion from the extremists.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at September 4, 2004 2:43 PM

You're being fooled. That's not the real Reza.

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at September 4, 2004 3:14 PM

True this is what the MONSTERS believe?

Witness I am so proud?

Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place.

Yes this is what they are doing right now in France going into hiding so you will not see what they are really about?

Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.”

Notice how the lie happens waiting untill you are sleeping?

We must stay awake and wake as many as you can!!

Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”

Look at how he says nothing of it being a bad thing?

Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”

Yes we are seeing this handy work today all over where there neigbors who belive in Islam?

Bukhari:V4B52N260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”’”

YES the Dream of FREEDOM to not have your head cut off? It is a lofty dream but we have to Remember how they hide and lie? and not be fooled again?

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

YEA sounds like a peaceful god to me?

Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”

Yea I see a lot of respect for women in this passage?

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

reza is this the peace you sow?

KILLING CHILDREN FOR MONEY & LAND?

Tabari VII:64/Ishaq:307 “The Messenger of Allah gave orders concerning the contents of the camp which the people had collected, and it was all brought together. Among the Muslims, however, there was a difference of opinion concerning it. Those who had collected it said, ‘It is ours. Muhammad promised every man that he could keep the booty he took.’ Those who were fighting said, ‘If it had not been for us, you would not have taken it. We distracted the enemy from you so that you could take what you took.’ Those who were guarding the Prophet for fear the enemy would attack him said, ‘By Allah, you have no better right to it than we have. We wanted to kill the enemy when Allah gave us the opportunity and made them turn their backs, and we wanted to take property when there was no one to protect it; but we were afraid that the Meccans might attack the Prophet. We protected him so you have no better right to it than we have.’ When we quarreled about the booty we became very bad tempered. So Allah removed it from us and handed it over to His Messenger.”

Once again we have to go back to France and look at the Dis-trak-tion?

Qur’an 6:66
“The people reject this (Book) and call it a lie though it is the truth. Say: ‘I am not a warden over you.’ ...When you see men who meddle with Our Revelations, turn away, withdrawing from them. Satan makes you forget.

Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”

So all the killing of black mulsums by arabs is normal? So why have Black American joined mulsums? They want to be killed by arabs?

Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’

You can make of this what it says BUT ask a mulsum what it means and he will blame YOU?

Bukhari:V6B60N475 “Allah’s Apostle became sick and could not offer his prayer. A lady came and said, ‘Muhammad! I think that your Satan has forsaken you, for I have not seen him with you for two or three nights!’ On that Allah revealed: ‘By the night when it darkens, your Lord has neither forsaken you, nor hated you.’”

Now we got NVGsto see this enemy in the night!! So we can KILL them!

Muslim:C14B39N6759 “Aisha, the wife of Allah’s Apostle, reported: ‘Allah’s Messenger left my apartment during the night. Then he came and he saw me in an agitated state.’ He said: “Aisha, what has happened to you? Do you feel jealous?” I said: “How can it be that a girl like me would not feel jealous in regard to a husband like you? Thereupon Allah’s Messenger said: “It is your devil who has come to you.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil with me?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Is there a devil attached to everyone?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil attached to you also?” He said: “Yes.”’

This is what thse people belive and there is much more!

September 4, 2004
http://www.nationalreview.com/scrip/printpage.asp?ref=/hanson/hanson20049022149.asp
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/wm556.cfm
Might want to read these?

Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her OPEN their EYES to ISLAMIC TERRORIST and give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 4, 2004 3:44 PM

Carrying on a thread by Henry and Rublev, I'm currently reporting from inside a (small, conservative and expensive) US campus where the loony left doesn't have so much say but yes, a clear majority of the faculty is left leaning. This profoundly puzzles me. I tried analysing the dept wise breakup of liberals....

The econ. and Pol.Sc. depts prescribe marx for reading but not Milton Friedman?! And those bunch of fatheads in liberal arts dept.s (think literature, history, sociolgy etc) - people still cramming shakespeare 500 yrs after his death - are at the forefront of this leftist puke. The engineering, law and business schools are mercifully spared this poison....

The silver lining is that the new generation of faculty is not quite as leftist as their predecessors. There is hope still...

Posted by: voletti at September 4, 2004 4:01 PM

simple mind her at work?

I have a ? Why did the ISLAMIC TERRORIST when they let out 31 Why was it so few CHILDREN and 26 women?

What was the count 5 Children and 26 women?

Why did they hold more children and who were all the others?

Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
Squirrel Hunter
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to Islamic Terrorist give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] & Russia too Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 4, 2004 4:03 PM

FERALEE
you are absolutely right.

And that is why it is SO IMPORTANT for John HOward to get re-elected . Australia's islamic demography is THE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.
We must prevent at risk of enourmous danger to Australia , that it follows in the paths of new Zealand and canada. This is avenue from which THERE IS NO RETURN!
Australians must understand that multiculturism will work succesfelly with any race on this planet, Except with those who follow mohammed.
They will never in one hundred years accept the culture of their host country.
AUSTRALIA can still avoid the fates that are awaiting those countries and have alreacdy taken over Europe.
Someone like Bob Brown could fattaly wound Australia and Latham is not much better.

Posted by: nonsuch at September 4, 2004 4:10 PM

Bill and Moe: Thanks for your comments. I didnt mean to imply mass genocide. Its just frustrating for me to see others paint an entire faith with the same broad brush used for jihadists. It seems to me nothing is all or none and I believe essential human nature is the same across the board.

I am willing to believe otherwise if one can prove to me that it is constructive in the long run. The muslims I have known and worked with were/are the finest of people. Am I being duped or do they not fit Moe's definition of Muslim?

I agree with Bill that there may be some value in putting the onus on all Muslims to reclaim and reform their faith. I also understand Moe's interpretation of a Muslim as one who believes in the literal interpretation of the Koran since it is claimed to be the word of Allah. Is the word of Allah experienced and interpreted the same way by all Muslims? Do we need to fear all of Islam? Should we make a distinction?

I am of course open to all ideas but is it productive to see all of Islam through the prism of terrorism? I'm all for calling a spade a spade, but will it win this war?

Posted by: Oded at September 4, 2004 4:50 PM

Oded:

I suggest you got to 6thcolumnagainstjihad.com and read the article by cubed, a regular JW contributor, entitled "Why Is Islam So Different From Us?" It's a worthwhile read and may begin to answer some of your questions.

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 5:29 PM

Oded:

Also, have you read Spencer's books and Ibn Warraq's Why I am not a Muslim? Required reading to even begin to get a handle on all of this.

Posted by: CGW at September 4, 2004 5:32 PM

RIKKI MY BRITISH BRO.
Have looked up some info on Vanessa Redgrave. Seems she is a leftover from Flowerpower 60's swingin' Chick. Has been doing Demos for yonks : as a former actress is desperate for Publicity, I would say. Actually remember while I was in U.K,
this crazy Dame was on telly 'paying expenses of
some terrorist whom she said had been wrongfully
accused' - wondered by the way she was looking dotingly at this Arsehole if she had the hots for
him - reminds me of Yvonne Ridley Freak
who converted to Islam and thought Taliban were 'lovely'. There's probably some sick women out there who want to be mauled by one eyed, one legged Mullahs or
Mangy Muhajadeen, sorry to say....DON'T GET ANGRY
BRO - GET EVEN. Write an article about these ladies and post to "The Sun."
Re : Sophie's Choice - sickeningly cruel and am so pleased her little girl is okay.

Posted by: Morgane at September 4, 2004 5:50 PM

Oded,

I very much believe that all of Islam is a threat. Not because every Muslim is an extremist, but because Islam’s goal is to rule the world, and because where Islam dominates, it is intolerant of others, and where it does not dominate it largely refuses to assimilate. Islam views non-believers as something less than adherents and the penalty of leaving Islam is death. Islam is both a religious and political ideology all rolled up into one.

To me Islam is counter to the American ideals of “all men are created equal”, “separation of church and state,” and “freedom of religion.” Our forefathers paid a heavy price to build what we have in America today, and I’m pretty intolerant of any American that doesn’t wholeheartedly want to support and defend the American way of life. I surely cannot fathom an American Muslim saying “I regret that I have but one life to give for my country” (and I don’t mean the Nation of Islam). Islam would very much like to do away with the American way of life; I don’t doubt that for a moment.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at September 4, 2004 6:36 PM

What we have to remember is that Islam periodically causes massacres and mayhem, then goes to ground; her apologists then justify their evil acts and they puff themselves up again.

Already the most influential Muslims are blaming the Jews and 'docile muslims' are distancing themselves from any complicity; except according to various teachers of Islam those who kill for Jihad and those who justify it by silence and by consent are equal partners in Jihad.

Do you remember Ubu Hamza; he recruited muslims for jihad in Aden , chechnya, etc one of his sermons laid ot the options of muslims , he said " Those of you who can go to war perform jihad, and those of you who can't still enjoin jihad by suppying money, and support, those of you who cannot give money can support the call to jihad by praising those who can take part , and also by talking the issues down and minimising the harm done."

In another sermon he told muslims "if you can kill a white man, do so , dont use a bullet ; cut him in half "

In another sermon he told muslims " The Qoran staes that no muslim will be helds to account for the death of a Christian"

These statements were applauded by many Muslims on his website as were many other hateful sayings , these things are despicable , these things should have been repudiated immediately by the Muslims worldwide , it was not consequently the Umma is guilty of a terrible social sin .

Since this brings this argument to a moral standpoint allow me to allow me to put my point of view within the limits of fair comment not offending a religion but explaining the issue .
Here is a clip of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which supports what I have written .

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;

- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;

- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;

- by protecting evil-doers.

1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. "Structures of sin" are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

Lord Ahmed recently spoke in the Mail on Sunday regarding the way Imams in Britain ( as all over the world) denigrate the people in the host nation, this makes them responsible for the actions of the people who attend their Mosques because they are teaching what they believe Mohammed preached.

This brings us to a more sinister conclusion as it begins to emerge that Muslims have NO allegiance except to themselves.

OMAN seems to be the most honourable of the Islamic countries with 4 Churches , bearing in mind that the Sudan claims ‘Religious freedom’(which applies only to Muslims) and that Indonesia has wiped out 2.300 churches and their populations who knows how many have lost their lives?

Bearing in mind that it was not Al Qaeda that actually caused the September 11 massacre but devotees of the al- Kod Mosque in Hamburg Germany, who staffed, planned, and financed it, Al Qaeda took the credit as it had trained operatives from all over Europe. Likewise various terrorist initiatives Israel’s Luton bomber, Abu hamza al masri’s initiative in Aden were the product of Luton Mosque’s Finsbury Park Mosque and Mosques in the Midlands.

Perhaps a freeze or better still a reduction of Mosques could be tied into the establishment of Christian Churches in the Middle East, Pakistan, as well as Indonesia, and religious freedoms therein.

Almost as quiet in condemning muslim atrocities as muslim themselves were the Church of England it is heartening that the Archbishop states that "such recent atrocities have caused me to examine my faith" and other non judgemental exclamations; why can'tthey understand Jihad "If it is not violent it is NOT jihad"

Posted by: breadwinner at September 4, 2004 10:11 PM

All denominations should now condemn ISLAM for the filth they really are, all world leaders should have voiced their rejection of the violence and associate the blame totally to ISLAM. Don't allow Palestine to be used as a moral football; if Hamas and Co had pursued peaceful means there would have been peace already, it chose Jihad and maintained it violently to the detriment of its people, they have lost the war and the peace.

How clearly they have defined their object of worship to the devil.

Posted by: breadwinner at September 4, 2004 10:26 PM

After this I doubt that even satan himself would accept muslims....even he has his standards.

Posted by: USAgirl at September 4, 2004 10:41 PM

For everyonbe who commented here:

Well done for making this one of Jihad Watch's greatest ever threads!!!

RE:Sophies choice: Thank the heavens above her kids are OK.

Morgane:DON'T GET ANGRY
BRO - GET EVEN. Write an article about these ladies and post to "The Sun."

It's like you read my mind.

Catherine,
I think you should ignore the Stateside papers if they've been telling you the death toll's 5 kids and 26 women, granted this is posted 2 days later but the toll is now 370!!!

Posted by: Rikki at September 6, 2004 6:10 AM