OT: Here is a great little summation of the evils of cultural relativism:

In his excellent book, The Killing of History (San Francisco: Encounter Books, 2000)Keith Windschuttle says, among many other intelligent things, as follows:

"The late Ernest Gellner pointed out the basic logical flaws in cultural relativism. In his book Postmodernism, Reason and Religion, Gellner showed that relativists are saddled with two unresolvable dilemmas. They endorse as legitimate other cultures that do not return the compliment. Some other cultures, of which one of the best known is Islam, will have no truck with relativism of any kind. The devout are totally confident of the universalism of their own beliefs which derive from the dictates of God, an absolute authority who is external to the world and its cultures. They regard a position such as postmodern cultural relativism as profoundly mistaken and, moreover, debasing. Relativism devalues their faith because it reduces it to merely one of many equally valid systems of meaning. So, entailed within cultural relativism is, first, an endorsement of absolutisms that deny it, and, second, a demeaning attitude to cultures it claims to respect." (p. 301-2)

Posted by: Mentat at September 8, 2004 10:28 AM

Cc. to the "Pluralism Project" of Diane Eck, Khaled Abou el Fadl still not wondering why he wasn't asked to remain at Yale Law School, John ("Islamic Terrorism -- Myth or Reality?") Esposito, Yvonne Yazbeck Haddad, Hamid "Post-Colonial" Dabashi, George ("Copernicus took all his stuff from the great Arab astronomers who only stopped because of the Mongol invasion which took away their support and Islam could not possibly have had anything to do with the decline of Arabic science, and don't you dare even raise that question again") Saliba, and many, many others.

Posted by: Hugh at September 8, 2004 10:52 AM

Hopefully our good friend "muslim", will be visiting this thread eventually, so he can see how just how "heroic" the palestinian jihad he is justifying looks on the grand old scale of things.

Posted by: Rikki at September 8, 2004 11:04 AM

So, the Palestinian idea of a hero is someone who murders a four year old child? Yes, that is very typical of muslims. We really should not be surprised at what happened in Russia. Enraged, yes, but not surprised. We also should not be surprised when a similar atrocity happens in the USA, probably a few days before the election.

Islam prides itself at waging total war on women and children.

Posted by: BattleofthePyramids at September 8, 2004 11:42 AM

Note as well, the usual media suspects who made much hay over the behaviour of US forces at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere have had precious little to say about what Al-Sadr's Mahdi thugs did to as many as 200 uncooperative Iraqis, within the holy confines of the Najaf mosque they were holed up in.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at September 8, 2004 11:47 AM

542 years in prison, maybe the courts should get realistic and start instating the death penalty for heinous crimes against humanity. Terrorists go to prison and are still able to organize mayhem from behind bars. Show the Palestinians where they will end up if they emulate this monster as a hero, dead and sewn into a pigskin bag. It's time to get tough before more children die.

Posted by: lockednloaded33 at September 8, 2004 11:55 AM

shame they don't keep thie word and stay with that hunger strike?

How many less PA would that be?

Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
Squirrel Hunter
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Russia too give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to Defeat the islamic terrorist cowards Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 12:42 PM

Posted by: lockednloaded33 at September 8, 2004 11:55 AM

I'm with you KILL them save the tax payers money to feed the needy!

THESE ARE MONSTER ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND NEED TO BE KILLED!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrle Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Russia too give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to Defeat the islamic terrorist cowards Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 12:50 PM

I hope muslim visits this thread, and comments on this...

From: http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/

"My name is A.Y.S , male. I live in Baghdad ,iraq . I work as a dentist ."

Read up on who this man is here,

http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/archives/2003_11_01_iraqataglance_archive.html#106827836666813735

Monday, September 06, 2004
My God..what a great news..at last the Iraqi people got out to the streets of AlNajaf in a demonstration against Muqtada, they want him to get out of the city and also do not want any one of his followers to pray there..
They were cursing his militia, courts and they looked so angry..
AlHurra channel met few of them who said ‘we don’t want him..they are thieves’
The people were repeating words that support the ING and IP and wanted the government to put an end to what they called ‘a disgrace’ and ‘crimes’ that happened in AlNajaf especially the courts of Muqtada..
Let the world know the real Iraqi people, the people who look for peace and justice, security , freedom and democracy..not those criminals who are shown on the channels kidnapping and killing the innocents in the name of ‘resistance and Islam’…there is NO ‘resistance’ in Iraq, there are AlQaida, Saddamis, Arabs and criminals who are destroying our country and the MNF, ING, IP and the IRAQI PEOPLE are fighting them….
OK?
Update: Here are some photos from AlHurra channel..

http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/1.jpg

http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/2.jpg

http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/6.jpg

http://iraqataglance.blogspot.com/5.jpg
And this banner says: the crimes and oppression of the ‘illegal courts’ will stay a disgrace forever.

By the way, did anyone living in the US or Canada read about this? Didn't think so, it would meet the requirements for reporting on how things are going in Iraq...

Moose

Posted by: Moose at September 8, 2004 1:34 PM

But of course he is hailed as a brave hero. Look back to see what encomia were lavished, by Arafat and others, on the brave heroes who killed 24 schoolchildren at Ma'alot in April 1974. Or another brave hero, that Jordanian soldier who shot, at pointblank range, one after the other, eight little Israeli schoolgirls who had gone on an outing to the so-called "Peace Garden" on the Israel-Jordan border. Or another brave hero, the man who killed a mother, and then shot, one by one, each of her children, including a baby. These are the heroes of the people with whom neither the Israelis, nor anyone else, can be expected to live. They have made themselves into monsters. It is hard to see how civilized people can be expected to live with or even near them. And certainly they cannot, under any conditions, be allowed to come to the West.

Posted by: Hugh at September 8, 2004 1:40 PM

moose Fox reported it

We are seeing that not all the Iraqi people are MONSTERS that they are the victums and need our help and we are helping them !

They need to help win their FREEDOM from these MONSTERS! I belive that they are but need to do more to turn in these Monsters so they can live in peace and FREEDOM and their country can be a jewell that it can be?

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE AND MUST BE FOUGHT FOR!!!

There are many brave Iraqi People who have lost their lifes Fighting along side to their friends the USA and otherswho fight to Save the Iraqi People!!

God Bless those brave souls Amen

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Russia too give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat islamic terrorist Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 1:56 PM

How dare you talk about Samir Quintar like that?
Samir Quintar was in prison for years, and lets us wait and see what USA will do for those on trial about Abu Gharib!!!
Samir Quintar has become a hero, yes , for me and for most arabs, because he was fighting for a cause.
Lebanon was occupied by the barbarian isralis, and women in South lebanon were savagely raped and abused, as well as children, for 20 year, by the israeli solders, and even though the UN issued a decree number 425 that condems israel and asks them to leave lebanon immediately, israel stayed in lebanon for 20 years!!!!
Now I do not know who does israel listen to, or what can stop israel from its continues terror and murder to palestinian and lebanese children, like they did in Qana in 1996, and 100 times before that.
I am not sure if israel care at all about UN decrees, even if the whole world condemns israel, as they did now about that racist wall they are building and the racist purification they are doing everyday as we see on tv and news channels and the internet as well, but I do know one thing:

The lebanese resistance, specially Hesbullah, with its suicide bombers, and with the small, if not negligeable military power it had, COULD KICK THE RACIST ISRAELIS OUT OF SOUTH LEBANON FOR GOOD! THEY RAN LIKE RABBITS UNDER THE FIRE OF THE LEBANESE RESISTANCE!
The same will happen in IRAQ, and soon we will see the americans running away like rabbits, going back to their mamas.

Posted by: muslim at September 8, 2004 3:30 PM

Large sums of money [apart from terrorist channels] are regularly donated to Palestinian People from EU and other Western countries - certainly enough to build decent houses and a thriving economy. So where is all this money going?? On guns and into bank accounts of corrupt Palestinian Leaders. These 'heroes' don't want the bloodshed to end, they're having a bloody good time sending out other people's children [not their own] on suicide bombings to keep rich Saudi backers happy. To my mind, West should be pointing this out and fighting a propaganda war against Arafat and his Minions.

Posted by: Morgane at September 8, 2004 3:35 PM

hugh,
the west will never listen to your nonesense ideas and will keep accepting muslims and arabs, and is accepting them till now.
Even American people are applying for work in the Saudi Arabia, everyday, so maybe your goverment should find a way to descrease the unemployment rates so that americans stop heading to arab lands looking for jobs. Look in kuwait, iraq and saudi arabia, full of americans.

Posted by: muslim at September 8, 2004 3:43 PM

MUSLIM
Rant on.Brave little Israel has and could kick your asses any day of the week. Jews have every legitimate RIGHT to their land since they were driven out by your Pedophile Prophet and child killing warriors. Fact is, your resentment stems from your impotence which is why your lot are always recalling the lost glories of your HATED
caliphate when your unholy warriors were able to rape, torture and kill minorities as they liked.
Sad news for you BUSTER is these days are long GONE!

Posted by: Morgane at September 8, 2004 3:48 PM

Morgane,
stop wheeping a land that you lost 2000 years ago, and still crying for it till now.
How about the american natives retaliating for their lost land? or the ottman empire comes back to claim the lost lands after ww2?
or germany claims the lost land also? or any other country?
stop talking about historical events that you do not have any proof except the holy books that you read.
The temples you claim in israel were not found till now, and they will never be!! so your claims now became lies, just like american claims to attack IRAQ under the cause of "search for mass destruction weapons"!! haha
and sad news for you, the lost days are not gone.
We proved it in Lebanon, and it is being proved also in iraq, as more than 1500 american soldier has dien, and the counting continues! I don't think america will stay long in iraq, not because it doesn't want to, because IT CAN'T!
And some day, all racist americans and israelis will go back to where they belong, and they will think twice before deciding to attach an arabic country again and steal its land and oil.

Posted by: muslim at September 8, 2004 3:56 PM

Muslim~ you taking cues from Reza? Got any giant spiders to show us?

You know, if the Saudis would teach Economics and Business math, instead of handing out religous (read: Jihadist) degrees right and left, they wouldn't have to offer outrageous salaries for Westerners (who are far better educated) to come in and run everything for them.

Running like rabbits? That will be the Iranians, when they discover the forces waiting for them just over the border. I imagine we'll hear about a 'Night of Thunder,' and a frustrated silence from Iran, as they couldn't very well rave about the troops they were trying to get into Iraq, now, could they? The thousands or tens of thousands that wouldn't be coming back...
(conjecture here, of course, but would not be surprised...)

Posted by: Gary at September 8, 2004 3:58 PM

Hmmm. Muslim has Lost it, Reza style. Something Bad must have happened to his side, somewhere. Maybe the Russian news?

Posted by: Gary at September 8, 2004 4:00 PM

Muslim:

Regarding the so-called "occupied terretories", I am reminded of an old school-yard saying; "Finders-Keepers, Losers-Weepers". Let us be clear that Israel occupies these so-called occupied terretories, because it was attacked on several occasions by muslim invaders. Of course these muslim invaders proved to be such "heroic" fighters that they were unable to dislodge the "cowardly" Israelis from their rightful lands.

The major problem with Islamic civilization is that there are so few heroes. There are no nation builders. There are no captains of industry. There are no great philanthropists. For muslims, the only hero is a murderous pedophile who invented a cult that has captured the souls of so many people. It is a tradgedy that so many lives are wasted in the pursuit of ignoble ideals.

If it is true that this Quintar murderer is regarded as a "hero" by many in the muslim world, it speaks volumes about the incompatbility of Islamic civilization with western civilization. So many muslims make it clear that their goal is to destroy our civilization. We have to be equally resolute in acting upon our goal; civilizing the muslims.

Posted by: Buck at September 8, 2004 4:06 PM

News:
Since the beginning of the latest intifada, israel has murder: 780 palestinian child!!!!
And arrested 2500!!!
Who on this earth can justify this? and still talk about child murder and accuse muslims???
780 children dead??? 2500 under arrest?????
how the hell can you arrest children in that quantity?? where did they get this barbarian heart from???

Posted by: muslim at September 8, 2004 4:10 PM

3280 less suicide- or car-bombers. Hey, it is a beginning. By the way, muslim, how do you justify Arafat Turning Down the offer made to him several years ago, that gave the 'palestinians' virtually everything they asked for?

Posted by: Gary at September 8, 2004 4:21 PM

Folks, do not waste your breath on Muslim he is incapable of rational thought and is so misguided in his view of history as to defy belief.

The rhetoric that this asshole try to pass for logic is barely worthy of comment.

If Muslim wants to return to the stone-age nothing we can say will change his mind. If Muslim feels that it is the West that is the oppressors, no one is ever going to convince him to the contrary.

Muslim (like most Muslims) is incapable of even considering that it is his own misguided cult, Islam, with its madman mullahs that are suppressing his own people.

Japan and Germany thrive today because of the intervention of the USA in The Second World War. The USA did not steal Germany or Japan’s wealth after the war, quite the opposite they helped it grow. The free world is a better place because of its actions and USA’s foreign aid leads the world. Even today, more aid is supplied to Palestine from the USA than all the Muslim countries combined.

It is the irrationality of Islam that is the enemy, the inability to accept its own actions and be responsible for its own plight combined with the ability to twist history to suit its own barbaric dogma.

If Muslims can justify shooting five-year olds in the back, how are you ever going to convince this asshole that maybe he better take a long hard look at the RELIGION OF PEACE (choke!!)

When Muslims can justify killing infants and raping children by saying that the rest of the world is wrong and they are entitled to protect their lands, any effort to argue with them just slows us down.

I for one have had enough.

Reza and Muslim are imbeciles and deserve to be raised in a mud hut somewhere drinking their God dam oil. Unfortunately, I believe these two are indicative of Muslim intellectual thought on a global basis. (Stupidity run amuck)

We need to negotiate with Islam only when these bastards are on their knees begging to talk and when we have their undivided attention. To try and reason with the likes of Reza and Muslim is to drown in the lies and deceit of the cult of the assassin.

Before 9/11, I did not give a damn about Islam and had no reservations about letting Muslims into our country. I no longer feel the same way. I give a damn all-right.

Given the actions of Islam on a global scale it is doing a damn fine job of ensuring that their cult will be universally reviled and hated (and not a moment too soon).

No F**king Islam Know Peace

Toro

Posted by: Toro at September 8, 2004 4:43 PM

Muslim friend;
This article is interesting because it shows he fundamental difference between islam and US.
When America found out about the bad behavior of the prison guards, they were disgusted! and have put them on trial. The soldiers that committed those acts are being dismissed from duty and I guarantee you they are receiving some of the worst punishments because their actions were NOT American. Americans are not gods .. make mistakes and screw up sometimes like any human.. but they stand up and admit to it.

Isalmics on the other hand are different..
commit the worst crimes, torture and kill and then come out and chant and party!!

Palestine was not as much as an independent nation either.. it was part of the British empire (so was Iraq for that matter) and therefore was a very new country. When the Jews came from Europe their intention was to *share*.. but unfortunately the arabs wanted to run them all out to the ocean.
If Islam was such a warm and kind religion the arabs would accept the Jews who were running away from the holocaust with open arms.. but instead they wanted to kill them off.. JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS (none muslims are "najiis" and you have to wash your hands after you touch them)
Ironically, if Israel wants to kill off the arabs now.. it has the power to do so.. but this has not happened .

Israel today is the most progressive country in Mid east! The only non Islamic country! and the only reason the oil producing nations there are doing well is because they sell their oil to US and the west, otherwise they have nothing! because Islam confines them. confines their women, confines their men.. Islam has choked the people of middle east.. set them free.
let them choose and I assure you they will denounce Isalm. Maybe then we will have peace.

Posted by: bigdoor at September 8, 2004 4:46 PM

HHMMM let me see pantis on your head in a naked pirmid or saddams meathod cut out toung , cut off hands, in mass graves?

I pick pantis on the head?

mussi aint been keep-en up on current events how many arab nations attcked little old Israel? and how many times? and they got their butts kicked how many times?

Oh Yea PA land is called TRANS JORDAN!!

it is a shame this mussi in jail did not live up to his word and die because he would not eat guess he lied because he is still alive?

Why don't these mussi ever keep their word?

Why have all the Arabs kicked them out of their lands? Could it be that they are DIRTY MONSTERS WHO START PROBLEMS WHERE EVER THEY GO?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat islamic terrorist Amen
Yes this means ALL who FIGHT against islamic terrorist if your a mulsum and do believe in living in peace with others that includes you too!

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 5:03 PM

Morgane
seams that our new friend mussi was misimformed it was the christian lebenes who killed the PA in their land they were tired of their sh-t!!

This guy is really brainwashed?
or just stupid?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer LOL LOL LOL

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the islamic terrorist around the world Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 5:20 PM

Morgane,
stop wheeping a land that you lost 2000 years ago, and still crying for it till now.
How about the american natives retaliating for their lost land? or the ottman empire comes back to claim the lost lands after ww2?
or germany claims the lost land also? or any other country?
stop talking about historical events that you do not have any proof except the holy books that you read.
Posted by: muslim at September 8, 2004 03:56 PM

agian mussi does not know history we fought to get the west that is now part of the USA do you think the TEXANS will give back that land? HELL NO this is what the American People see in Israels fight that is their land ISRAELS land won in a war now a bunch of arabs who were lied to by other arabs want what is not theirs?

AS WE SAY IN THE SOUTH THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!!!!

Did anybody see how kerry was holding that shotgun? reminded me of saddam holding it up?

SOI
ONE MORE REASON ON KERRY?
When the homeland s. wanted to give him a Brif about a threat he went windsurffing instead?

Iran has put 25,000 people who have signed to die around their nuke plant OH WELL they signed the papers that they want to die we can help with that!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the islamic terrorist Open the Eyes of the world to the threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at September 8, 2004 5:38 PM

MUSLIM:

This is a long post, but it had to be said:

You said ‘stop wheeping a land that you lost 2000 years ago, and still crying for it till now.How about the american natives retaliating for their lost land? or the ottman empire comes back to claim the lost lands after ww2? or germany claims the lost land also? or any other country?'

Is it not the arabs who are crying about the land they lost to Israel? Land that was won as reparations to Israel in a war of aggression waged against it by its neighbors. To the victor go the spoils, right? If you deny that, then you should agree that all of the arabs of the levant, mesopotamia, and north Africa be uprooted and forced back to Arabia. And their land given to the indigenous Christian Coptic, Greek, Assyrian, and Berberic peoples? After all, the entire arab world is the result of the spoils of one big multi-century war that you muslims have a special name for.

Interesting that you mention Germany in your list of nations not retaliating for their former lands. I wonder why the Germans aren’t staging daily terror attacks into Poland and Russia to regain their lost lands? Lets compare the Germans and the ‘Palestinians’ then shall we?

Between 1945-1947 fourteen million German civilians were forcibly removed from their homes. They were refugees from Silesia, Pomerania, and East Prussia – historic eastern territories of Germany that had remained German following plebiscites of Versailles. These territories were annexed to Poland and the Soviet Union, not on the basis of historical claims (certainly the case with the Soviets), but rather simply taken as spoils of war. Germany was clearly seen as the aggressor, and the loser, of World War II and this compensation to the Allies was its punishment.

An interesting parallel can be drawn between the plight of the ‘Palestinian’ arabs and the expelled German civilians. Since its independence, Israel has been the victim of several wars of aggression perpetrated by its neighbors. In each conflict Israel has emerged victorious. Just as the Allies won territory forfeited by Germany, Israel has won territory from its aggressive and subsequently defeated neighbors.

Before the Arab-Israeli conflicts there was no such nationality known as ‘Palestinians’. The name Palestine is from the Roman name of the historic territory of the Philistines, a biblical people who disappeared a millennia before the Arabs invaded the region. So who are these ‘Palestinians’ you are crying about? They are arabs, descendents of muslim invaders of Middle Ages (mentioned above). More specifically, they are Jordanians, Egyptians, and Syrians who have been disowned by their governments.

Jordan, Egypt, and Syria all invaded Israel, were defeated, and lost territory as a result. These ceded territories were the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights respectively. The people living in these lost territories were left in a political limbo, similar to the situation of the German refugees. In the case of the displaced Germans, many were resettled in what was left of Germany (although some in the Soviet annexed territory were relocated to Siberia). Despite the fact that western Germany could hardly support it’s existing population following the destruction of the war, it managed to absorb massive amounts of refugees from the east. Jordan and Egypt made their peace with Israel that did not include the repatriation of their citizens left in the ceded territories. Syria has never recognized the Israeli seizure of the Golan Heights and by the same token has never recognized the de facto reality of what citizens that still remain there.

The present day situation was inevitable. What was left in the occupied territories following the wake of peace agreements between Israel and its neighbors was a disparate group of people united by a common language, faith, and resentment of Israel. Thus the ‘Palestinian’ nationality was invented to classify these refugees. That is where the parallel between the ‘Palestinians’ and displaced Germans ends. The victorious Allies knew that the best way to prevent further German nationalistic aggression was to remove the foundations of irredentism that could be used as pretexts to future conflicts. The expulsion of the German populace and resettlement with Poles and Russians is the reason why there are not popular movements agitating for the return of former German lands – they are no longer German politically or ethnically.

Forced population transfers have been accepted as means to eliminate nationalistic tension in many places (expulsion of German minorities from Czechoslovakia, forced deportation of ethnic Greeks from Turkey and vise versa, etc.). Both Germany and Poland are friendly and do not make irredentist claims against neighboring territories.

Blame for the suffering of the 'Palestinians' can rest squarely on the governments of Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. They abandoned their citizens when they abandoned the occupied territories. Their actions forced the creation of an artificial ‘Palestinian’ movement and helped fuel the tensions swelling in the region today.

I’m afraid those are the facts as they are. No amount of disinformation can distort it. You display the typical arab-muslim hypocrisy and double standards with your reasoning. You should convert muslim, and free yourself from the intellectual slavery of islam before its too late.

Posted by: Belisarius at September 8, 2004 5:45 PM

MY DEAR MUSLIM
Your ignorance even of your own History is startling! Can only suppose you are fresh out of a Pakistan Maddrass , able to recite the Koran like a Parrot but not understanding a word written
in Arabic. Poor fellow. By all means make these threats and declaim your Caliphate Dreams...which will remain.....just DREAMS.

Posted by: Morgane at September 8, 2004 6:34 PM

Of course Muslim is ignorant of his/her own history. Keeping the population ignorant allows the murder contractors to send out the jihadists with the belief that they are virtuous in their attempt to reclaim land that was stolen from them. Perhaps if they knew the truth, fewer would be willing to give up their lives.

Knowledge is power!

Posted by: epg at September 8, 2004 7:31 PM

Excellent posts Belisarius, Toro and the rest of you guys ! It's a great pleasure to watch you all tearing muslim's arguments to shreds. So many of my friends are now visiting the site and posts like the ones above are turning even the most liberal against the Islamic cause. Keep on keeping on,

LOVE LIFE, HATE ISLAM !

Posted by: Son Of Albion at September 8, 2004 8:43 PM

I can just see the hunger strike campaign on Palestinian TV now...

"Quntar was a hero killing all thise infidel kids..they had to die...otherwsie how can we terrorise the jews enough for them to be defeated and groups like Hamas come to power...and how then if we can't bring hamas to power can we have our perfect totalitarian islamic paradise on earth...yes these kids and millions more of them have to die...the sacrifice is worth it...it is the humane thing to do in the long run...and therefore Allah is on our side becuase he knows this"

And I can imagine all the fundi clerics all holding hands boogying in a chain on tv with tears streaming down their faces singing "free the baby killers.,..send all your love to maximum security cell 101. Set the baby killers freeeeeeeeeeee!!!!"

Posted by: obl r us at September 8, 2004 10:02 PM

I keep thinking about those kids; and I haven't been able to look upon the islamics around me the same.

The pita bread and hummas dosen't taste good anymore; the sweet lemonade makes me puke; and the muslim dignity that I once understood is gone forever.

What happened in Russia and in a certain school in Pakistan that I know of -- changed everything.

Clever arguments; historical insights; insightful reasons; it all gets me to the same conclusion -- the only good muslim, is one already in paradise.

Posted by: witness at September 8, 2004 11:43 PM

muslim,

I repeat as I have before, you don't speak for all muslims. But let me go farther, you speak for the minority of muslims that are accelerating their path to no where. The muslim people that completely oppose your stance still have the door open to entering the civilized world.

You know, the world with a respectable literacy rate, decent health care, decent education, decent life expectancy and a decent economy. Their brave path, in the face of your evil opposition will light the path to many other muslims. When that happens, you won't have to worry about America, you will have to worry about your countrymen dealing with your answers to problems.

The best you can hope for is a small community that will contribute nothing to the advancement of humanity, and will look exactly the same in 1000 years. Your history is already written, your cause will never prevail.

Moose

Posted by: Moose at September 8, 2004 11:44 PM