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A couple of news stories about Muhammad Atta, the central figure of 9/11 who is in the paradoxical position of being celebrated as a hero by those who simultaneously deny that he was involved in the attacks.
Muhammad Atta's father is a walking encyclopedia of fashionable Muslim projections, denials, and deceptions. From AP, with thanks to all who sent this to me:
First, the denial: The attacks weren't the work of Muslim fanatics. "Look to Mossad," Israeli intelligence. Next, the rationalization: "No nation has done as much evil in the world as America did, and you do not expect God to punish it?" And then the defiance: "If a Palestinian flies a plane and strikes the White House and kills Bush, his wife and his daughters, he will go to heaven. So will any Muslim who defends his faith."
Then there's this Knight-Ridder/Tribune story (thanks to Miss Moneypenney) about how Muhammad Atta, who was clearly a chip off the old block, was really a gentle, warm-hearted, even delicate fellow who loved children and just happened to nurse maniacal and fantastic religiously-rooted paranoia toward and hatred of Jews:
Those interviews, translated by the Chicago Tribune, provide an exceptional and incongruous portrait of the key Sept. 11 hijackers and their leader, Mohamed Atta, who is remembered for laughing as he played with children and who called home to express concern about his father's health two days before delivering thousands of unsuspecting people to a horrifying death....Rather, they believed they were striking a blow at what Atta considered "the center of `world Jewry,' and the world of finance and commerce controlled by it," according to a former Atta follower named Shahid Nickels....
The only son of a successful Cairo lawyer, the only brother of two sisters who are Cairo university professors, the first Mohamed Atta who emerges from the files of the BKA seems a logical, even-tempered young man, shy and polite but also generous, kind and even sensitive, a dutiful son who delighted in playing with children.
If anything set Atta apart during his early years in Hamburg, it was an intensity of devotion to Islam that seemed a bit beyond the norm in the northern port city's variegated Muslim community....
Ahmed Maglad, a Sudanese student in Hamburg who became close to Atta for a while, liked listening to music. According to Maglad, Atta thought that no music of any kind had a place in the life of a devout Muslim, and that the same went for good food and fun.
"He thought that the heart would die through fun," Maglad told the BKA. "He was convinced that there was not enough time in one's life to have fun. He said: `People die in Palestine, and you are laughing!' Or, when I bought delicious food, he said: `You are living your life like in paradise, and people are dying elsewhere.'"...
It was during those classes that several acquaintances first noticed Atta's mounting interest in the political struggles of Muslims in the Middle East, North Africa, Indonesia and Chechnya.
Shahid Nickels, who attended many of the classes, recalled Atta as standing out from other Hamburg Muslims, not only for his superior knowledge of German and his advanced education but what Nickels perceived as "his high moral standards."
Julian Miklaszeski, the son of a Muslim father and a German mother who converted to Islam as a child, was in 6th grade when he enrolled in Atta's Sunday school at the Turkish mosque.
Miklaszeski soon became a protege of Atta's, and Julian's mother, Christine Marashdeh, had no hesitation in entrusting Atta with her son's Muslim education.
"His role in the Islamic community was the role of the model Muslim," she told the BKA. "For my husband it was important that the children would go and attend El-Amir's religious class."
Like Nickels, Miklaszeski remembers being surprised to discover that Atta's lessons ranged beyond the Koran to include the Muslim struggle, or jihad, in Palestine, Chechnya and Kosovo.
Despite his growing interest in the jihad, Atta professed non-violence. Michaels remembered a conversation in which Atta claimed "that he would not approve of violence to solve conflicts, and that there must be ways to convince people by other means."
Outside the mosque Atta distributed fliers supporting Muslim issues and causes. Friends said his special interest seemed to be how best to educate German Christians about Islam....
Atta seemed tolerant of other faiths. "He did not automatically disrespect opinions of non-Muslims," agreed Kay. "Since he participated in the interreligious dialogue, I assumed that he was tolerant. At least, he did not call them `non-believers.' I would have remembered, because I don't like this term."
Then the article delivers a hash of lopsided and incomplete information from Bernard Lewis (who should know better) about how tolerant Islam is of other faiths, and how Atta began to reject this "mainstream" Islam:
The Koranic declaration that "there is no compulsion in religion" is interpreted by Princeton Islamic historian Bernard Lewis as a sign of forbearance toward other religions.Elsewhere, the Koran recognizes Jews and Christians, along with Muslims, as "believers" in the same God, and counts Abraham and Jesus among God's prophets, although it does not recognize the Jews as God's chosen people or Jesus as the son of God. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, is merely the last in a long line of divine messengers.
That is not how Islam was interpreted within the darker recesses of Hamburg's Islamic community, notably the ultraradical Al Quds mosque, where Atta was exposed to an imam named Mohammed al-Fazazi.
Al-Fazazi's venomous message included a Muslim obligation to slit the throats of "non-believers," Jews and Christians, and to take violent retribution against innocents, including women and children, for Israel's policies in Palestine, according to one of al-Fazazi's videotaped sermons.
The reporter doubtless didn't know, but Lewis does and should have explained, that Al-Fazazi's message is not incompatible in the least with all the tolerance talk: in Islamic law, the tolerance comes after the Muslims have won victory in battle. That is, after they have slit throats and taken violent retribution. The defeated remnant of Jews and Christians is then tolerated as second-class dhimmis, with severely restricted rights.
It was after returning to Hamburg in 1998 that Atta grew a full beard and abandoned his habitual slacks, shirts and sweaters for a turban and traditional Arab dress, called a dishdash.Acquaintances report that he no longer rejected violence, and that his anti-Semitism began to assume extreme proportions.
Some of the Hamburg Muslims gathered around Atta were surprised when he began questioning, then rejecting, the tenets of mainstream Islam.
This should have been no surprise at all. He was clearly taking Islam very seriously and reading the Qur'an. What the Qur'an says about all this is quite clear. It is only a mystery in the muddled minds of mainstream media reporters.
Julian Miklaszeski still remembers Atta's sudden declaration that all who did not follow Islam were non-believers. "All non-believers were evil in his eyes," Miklaszeski told the BKA. Shahid Nickels recalls Atta insisting that Israel had no right to exist and that suicide attacks by Palestinians on Israeli civilians were "legitimate."
Nothing there that hasn't been said by many Muslim scholars, including Qaradawi.
The article returns later to Atta's venomous anti-Semitism:
Those around Atta quickly became no less hateful toward Israel, and Jews in general. Motassadeq is remembered by a roommate for referring to Hitler as a "good man." Binalshibh was captured on videotape at Bahaji's wedding ranting about a "Jewish world conspiracy," reading a Palestinian war poem and denouncing Jews as "a problem for all Muslims."According to Nickels, Atta himself saw Lewinsky as "an agent sent by the Jews in order to topple Clinton. Because from a Jewish perspective, Clinton's Middle East policy was much too liberal and friendly with respect to the Palestinians."
Atta's increasingly paranoid thinking, Nickels told the BKA, began to remind him of "Nazi ideas, according to which the Jews were the group which planned to extinguish Islam and control the world."
"The Jews, he thought, controlled the world of finance and the media," Nickels said. "The Jews, according to his conviction, controlled several newspapers in Germany, and the Jews also kept leading positions in banks, politics and business.
"The Jews had planned Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya as well, in order to fight the spreading of Islam, he believed. With respect to Israel, he was convinced that the Jews wanted to establish a theocracy between the Nile and the Euphrates, in order to chase away the non-believers."
For all his malice toward Israel, when Atta persuaded Al-Shehhi, Jarrah and Binalshibh to join him in committing their lives to the Muslim jihad, they spoke not of murdering Israelis or Americans but of killing Russian soldiers in Chechnya.
In late autumn 1999, the four young men from Hamburg arrived in Afghanistan, in search of paramilitary training in bin Laden's al-Qaida camps and assistance in reaching Chechnya.
They were the answer to bin Laden's prayer.
The two al-Qaida operatives already dispatched to San Diego to organize the hijacking plot, Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar, had proved entirely ill-suited: unfamiliar with life in the West, unable to learn English and incapable of learning to fly.
The unexpected appearance of Atta and his followers, who possessed none of those shortcomings, solved bin Laden's problem in a single stroke.
Atta, then 31, stood out, not only as the oldest and most intelligent of the group and the most committed Muslim, but as a natural organizer, motivator and leader who could manage the complex arrangements necessary to put 19 hijackers aboard four airplanes without attracting attention from the authorities.
During his weeks in Kandahar, Atta had several private meetings with bin Laden, unheard of for a new arrival. By the time he returned to Hamburg, Atta had been entrusted with the full details of what would become the Sept. 11 plot, and commissioned to set it in motion.
When Atta, Al-Shehhi and Jarrah departed Hamburg for the United States in spring 2000, Atta gave different people different stories about where he was going and why.
To Philip Kay, Atta claimed he was moving to Malaysia to write a doctoral dissertation. Ayman Negm told his wife, Heidi Finke, that Atta had gone to Miami to write his thesis. "I believed that he was in the U.S.A.," Finke said. "That was credible. But I found it hard to believe that he would go to Malaysia."
Others were told that Atta had returned home to Cairo to marry, and thought no more about him. But when Ahmed Maglad heard that Atta had moved to the U.S., "I was surprised about the fact that he, an orthodox believer, a very sober Muslim, would move to a non-Muslim country to study."
Wait a minute. I thought we were supposed to believe that he wasn't an "orthodox believer," or a "very sober Muslim." And we certainly aren't supposed to believe that pious Muslims would have any problem with living in the secular West. That one is definitely a paragraph that slipped by some careless editor!
There is a great deal more to this quite lengthy article, which is illuminating despite all the utter tosh it retails. There's much interesting information about Atta's personal life and perspectives. Read it all.
And finally, the obligatory "he was a quiet man, a good man, he couldn't have done it" coda:
"I can't believe that El-Amir could have done it," Bejaoui told the BKA a few weeks after Sept. 11. "He was always so kindhearted and compassionate. He feared Allah, and he knew that the Koran would not approve of such deeds, and that he would be punished at the Day of Judgment."
Why did this "orthodox believer," so serious about his faith, do something forbidden by the Qur'an? Why would he live his life for Allah and then decide to die in a way that he knew would send him to hell? It doesn't add up -- and it points out the poverty and deceptiveness of this kind of analysis.
No one wants to admit it, but it's clear: he was doing something that he thought was commanded by the Qur'an.
Posted by Robert at September 12, 2004 8:11 PM
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we already know where moslems stand of whatever stripe.
the usa government and usa business tycoons involved with moslems and moslem countries are the ones to watch concerning islam. colin powell will go down in history as doing great harm to his country.
but he is not alone both dem/republican politicians
have/are doing the same thing.
they (islamic sympathizers/sycophants) let the fox(islam) into the hen house(america) and as we can see the eventual triumph of islam taking place in europe, how can we think it will be any different here?
we're just fortunate to be maybe 25-30 years behind.
hopefully the Lord will have mercy on america, but i am beginning to seriously doubt it.
the ultimate question comes down to:
are you ready to face eternity?
Posted by: forrest shalom![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 12, 2004 9:01 PM
Close reading didn't disappear; it just moved out of university literature departments to make way for "post-colonial studies," Naipaul Man, (homo islamicus naipaulensis), the New Historicism, the works chosen for study on the basis of everything but literary merit. One sees it has been given a welcome at www.jihadwatch.org. For this -- relief, and much thanks.
Posted by: Hugh at September 12, 2004 9:02 PM
One question:
Is it currently illegal in America to monitor sermons in places of worship? My question is can the FBI listen in to what's being said in friday sermons in the nations' morgues (oops, mosques!)?
How are we, the ordinary but alert citizenry, to know when something is suspicious/improper in the various islamic study centers and muslim associations sprouting around like tadpoles??
God bless the free world
Posted by: voletti at September 12, 2004 9:35 PM
Another question:
What can I, one little voice, do to help fight this plague?
Posted by: blue at September 12, 2004 9:46 PM
"Atta thought that no music of any kind had a place in the life of a devout Muslim"
Just when you thought you knew everything about "Islam", something else pops up.
"Music is Haram. The overwhelming majority of scholars consider music to be Haram"
4 ouy of 5 Mullahs say no music,although child raping and slaughtering,decapitations and boinking donkeys and mules is ok.
Singing girls and musical instruments will be playing to them. Allah. Ta’ala will cause the earth to swallow them. Allah will transform them into apes and swine."
"Islam has FORBIDDEN music in NO unmistaken terms (For further details and a full discussion of the evidences concerning the prohibition of Music in Islam, refer to: The Islamic Ruling of Music and Singing, by Abu Bilal Mustafah al-Kanadi). Islam FORBIDS ALL types of music. Music in Islam is regarded as a Kabirah (MAJOR SIN)!!! With regard to music our Prophet (SAW) said:"
"There will be men from among my Ummah who will consume alcohol, giving it another name (so as to deceive themselves and others). Singing girls and musical instruments will be playing to them. Allah. Ta’ala will cause the earth to swallow them. Allah will transform them into apes and swine." [Ibn Majah, Al-Bayhaqee. Al-Albaanee (ra) declared it to be authentic in Silsilat Saheehah]
It is reported from Abdullah ibn Mas’ood (RA):
"Music sows hypocrisy in the heart like water causes seeds to grow in soil." (Ad-Durru al-Manthoor, by As-Suyootee, explanation of verse 31:6 of the Quran)
"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) form the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Quran) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hellfire)." (Luqman 31:6)
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 12, 2004 10:09 PM
"Is it currently illegal in America to monitor sermons in places of worship? My question is can the FBI listen in to what's being said in friday sermons in the nations' morgues (oops, mosques!)"?
voletti,
The most effective way to deal with the above would be to reduce "every" mosque in the US to rubble.
"What can I, one little voice, do to help fight this plague?"
Buy a sledgehammer and some dynamite.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 12, 2004 10:17 PM
In the taxonomy of apologists -- that is, those who cannot bear to blame the canonical texts, or the main tenets, of Islam itself for what we see all about us -- Malise Ruthven (to whom was entrusted "A Very Short Introduction to Islam" in the same series in which Michael Cook so cleverly handled the problem of the Qur'an) and Paul Berman stand out. Ruthven for many years worked for the BBC Arabic Service, with all that that implies; Paul Berman is a kind of Sidney-Hookish democratic leftist. [Ruthven's latest performance, not completely wrong though his attempt to minimize the sinister nature of Tariq Ramadan stands out, can be found in the August 7 Times Literary Supplement, in an omnium-gatherum review]. What Berman and Ruthven do is to somehow try to convince themselves, and us, that Sayid Qutb and similar thinkers really owe a great deal to Marx and other Europeans (Communists, Fascists, what's the difference). Now it is certainly true that one could analyze Islam itself, as a belief=system, borrowing from what, for example Georges Sorel noted about the need for the Myth of Violence (Mussolini, incidentally, started out as an admirer of Sorel, and a socialist to boot). But it is unnecessary for Qutb, or Azzam, or any of a thousand others to have sought or found inspiration in Communist or Fascist ideology. They had only to look at many passages in Qur'an and the authoritative hadith collected by Bukhari and Muslim; they had only to look at the role-model Muhammad, in any of the biographies.
So why would Malise Ruthven, for example, seek to pin the blame on the Western donkey? Well, it takes one's eyes off the obvious thing to blame -- that which, day in and day out, regulates life and thought for more than a billion people. Day in, day out, in the khutbas, in the schools, on the street, in the house, everywhere you go -- Qur'an and hadith, hadith and Qur'an, and sira. And what others wrote, of course, about Qur'an and hadith and sira, sira and hadith and Qur'an. A closed circle, with so little possibility for free or skeptical inquiry, so little possibility of receiving even a glimmer of a hint of what the non-Islamic world is really like, or for that matter any hint of the study of comparative religion which might do much to dispel mental distempers.
Atta did not need anything to inspire him except his own belief-system, which cushioned him, cocooned him, protected him, offered him An Explanation and Interpretation of Absolutely Everything. Neither Hitler's Mein Kampf, nor Stalin's Kratkij Kurs (Short Course of Marxism-Leninism) was necessary for Atta, or a hundred million other Attas.
Posted by: Hugh at September 12, 2004 10:33 PM
Can you imagine how quickly the "war on terror" would end, if the political landscape in the West was peopled with leaders of Atta's caliber?
Compare Atta's determination and sense of purpose with the many spineless pc pukes in the Western media, education, and government.
Too bad he wasn't working on our side. Frankly, I would have loved to have met Atta in combat and would have been honored to kill such a worthy opponent.
Credit where it is due; nevertheless, may Atta rott in hell.
Posted by: witness at September 12, 2004 11:03 PM
please do not incite violence against moslems and mosques!
the government will have to be the one to take the lead in a war on islam (don't hold your breath).
ascroft has met with the moslems in reference to
criminal mischief directed at a mosque in florida.
http://www.danielpipes.org/rr/blog_227.php
i will say that i sympathize with the immense frustration felt by many because of their western government's BLIND REFUSAL (inability?) to address and deal with the islamic threat that we on jihadwatch see clearly and are vitally concerned about.
here is more disheartening support of islam by
american government officials:
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/227
at September 12, 2004 11:12 PM
witness,
Speaking of pc spineless and liberal socialist vermin, I recently spent sometime over at Talkleft.com
The anti-American, anti-Israel and pro Islamo-fascist mentality of these leftist-scum is sickining.
I gave the bastards a good bashing and I am proud to say the fifth column slugs banned me.
at September 12, 2004 11:18 PM
forrest shalom,
The US government is sitting on it's hands as the Cult of Death marches on...
Concerning the Book of Daniel Chapter 2:41-45 which you referred to on another thread, my response is that we are in the "Rapture".
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 12, 2004 11:28 PM
Muhammad Atta, who was clearly a chip off the old block, was really a gentle, warm-hearted, even delicate fellow. "His role in the Islamic community was the role of the model Muslim,"
This is what a model Muslim of the Islamic faith is capable of. See this site
http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
How many model Muslims of the Islamic faith are living in the United States now?
Posted by: Prophet2004 at September 12, 2004 11:40 PM
With due apologies to atheists around here:
God, in whatever form and name He is, could not in his wisdom, have meant for Islam to win.
It ultimately reduces to a question about faith. Without faith in a supreme power (of whatever religious denomination) to shield them from the darkness of uncertainty, western leaders can never really display the spine, the long range planning and the determination to walk this path of head-on confrontation with islam.
Ending on a rhetorical note; so, what will it be, Ye Lord almighty? Us or them?
Posted by: voletti at September 12, 2004 11:41 PM
voletti,
fear not: islam doesn't win!
ultimately it will be Jesus who soundly defeats islam and its western allies as they attack israel in the not to distant future. its all in the bible.
this is ultimatley a spiritual battle, and thankfully the God of Israel is stronger than the satanic god: allah.
Posted by: forrest shalom at September 12, 2004 11:56 PM
"so, what will it be, Ye Lord almighty? Us or them?"
The answer lies below:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Revelation 21
at September 13, 2004 12:01 AM
son of infidel:
in reference to the biblical doctrine of the rapture or the blessed hope.
please see 1 thessalonians chapter 4:
also here is my doctrinal statement if interested: note under ESCHATOLOGY:the blessed hope
http://www.gospeltracts.org/doctrine.html
Posted by: forrest shalom at September 13, 2004 12:06 AM
Thanks for the link.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 12:18 AM
Here is what we do:
Round up these people, force them to listen to Queen/Freddie Mercury, serve them only pork chops and Coors Lite, then they'lll become civilized.
Posted by: abad at September 13, 2004 1:12 AM
to bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save allah and that muhammad (peace and blessings of allah be upon him) is the messenger of allah.
to observe prayer (salat).
to pay zakat (alms giving)
to perform the pilgrimage to the house of allah (hajj).
to observe fasting during ramadhan." (bukhari)
How will muslims ever convert Caucasians to this bad science fiction. Why will a Westerner ever kneel toward the meteor in mecca after saudi arabian wahhabism used 911 as their jihad mission to serve notice on the Western world.
And, you palestinians will never get your own country until all your jihad ends indefinitely, no child suicide missions, remote control bombs, missiles, foreign paid snipers, islam, & the rest of your nightmares, all will have to stop
Posted by: SFOD at September 13, 2004 1:30 AM
I think pigs feet and and Richard Wagner would also be inorder.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 1:32 AM
SFOD,
"you palestinians will never get your own country until all your jihad ends indefinitely, no child suicide missions, remote control bombs, missiles, foreign paid snipers, islam,"
Are you suggesting that the Palistinians eliminate all of their cultural activities.
"palestinians will never get your own country"
Palistinians can have their own country, on Mars.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 1:41 AM
sand maggots are coming, sand maggots are coming,
problem, just get some pork skins & coors
at September 13, 2004 2:29 AM
Do you want you next doctor visit to be like your last DMV visit, then vote for government health care! Vote for Kerry, he will turn your doctor into the DMV
Posted by: Bar at September 13, 2004 2:31 AM
Son Of Infidel (aka Rightwing),
I've not been to the left-pit for a couple of days.
I hope you know I don't for one second take in any of the bullshite they spew at me, but I try and keep the discussions as civilized as possible, it's a better way of opening their eyes.
Some of them ,however, have conjunctivitis ,in other words their eyes won't ever open.
Thanks for being there though pal, it's been a good crack to say the least!!!
And don't worry about being banned, if that ass-kissing ostrich Matt.W carries on with his failure of thought, I think I'm gonna get banned pretty soon too.
at September 13, 2004 6:50 AM
Rikki,
Give those leftist bastards a good bashing and don't pull any punches!!!
The following are two emails I sent to these wankers at the "Leftpit":
I am proud to have been banned from your fifth column socialist website.
Interesting that "used" French condom is permitted to post his hate and profanity as well as others.
I am not surprised, this is typical of your ilk.
"Thanks for visiting, I'm sure you will be happier elsewhere" From Talkleft.com
That is an understatement, although spending time at Talkleft gave good insight into the mind of the Amercia hating fifth column left, not to mention their sympathy if not out right support for the Islamic terrorists.Excuse me , its not politically correct to indenitfy the terrorists as being Islamic.
It is interesting that your site did not post anything in rememberance to the terrorist massacre of 9/11 and the innocent civilians who lost their lives.Nor did any of your "leftist vermin" audience refer to the horrific attack on America.
at September 13, 2004 7:05 AM
Another question:
What can I, one little voice, do to help fight this plague?
Posted by: blue at September 12, 2004 09:46 PM
Blue,
Theres a lot you can do.
Like I've said before: "you don't need a huge arsenal of weaponary to fight Jihad, but it helps".
The very least you can do is write letters of concern to your local councils, and to newspapers both local, national and international.
As well as opening your eyes to the threat of islam/jihad to your family, friends and workmates (or whatever).
It may only seem like a small splash,in a big ocean, butbare in mind that all of the anti-jihads are doing that and more, and creating one big tidal wave.
If you're worried that you might not get your points across effectively enough when you are trying to expose the plague to someone a little more garrilous, or a "Mr/Mrs Know it all", then make sure you practice what you're going to say to each person you're going to alert.
What you need is the most basic information about islam and jiad to convince them, and to do this I'd advise you to read Robert Spencers "Onward Muslim Soldiers", and any number of Hugh's posts on Jihad/DhimmiWatch, just have a scan through the archives and look for the one that best suits your needs.
And just be aware that you can't open eveyones eyes, there are some that will already be aware, some that are aware of some facts but cloudy about others, some that are totally shocked by what you are saying, and take it all in, and whose views are changed forever thereafter, and then there are the ones (of course) who have their heads buried in the sand, or live in a fantasy world, who refuse to believe anything you tell them, will call you racist (even though islam is a religion not a race), and try to counter what you're saying with Christianity's criminal record (this is just a diversion, albeit a cliched one,to get off the subject and make you think that islam is harmless in comparison, dangerous if believed , but hold little relevance or substance), and others still will try to fill your head with outright lies and conspiricies. Just be confident in knowing that what you believe is the truth, and kindly tell these people that their ignorance and hypocracy totally defeats the object of having a logical discussion.
Good luck Blue!!!
Posted by: Rikki at September 13, 2004 7:10 AM
Sonny,
I'm going there now and I'm damn well gonna force them to acknowlege 9/11, and also expose the islamonazi scumbags Mohammed Bakri (London uber-racist cleric who organized a "celebration of 9/11", being a "magnificent" day for muslims everywhere.
Don't worry though Sonny I soon put a stop to that I exposed the bastard to the Sun , and The Star ( the UK's 2 top newspapers, and which lean quite far to the right).
And because of that, the British Allience united on the net, and gathered together to intercept the pathetic cockroaches.
They were
at September 13, 2004 7:17 AM
They were forced to call it off.
Posted by: Rikki at September 13, 2004 7:17 AM
Rikki,
Speaking of Matt W. check out these comments posted by him and that idiot "Peaches".
These Leftist perverts think pedophila is ok.
With the left anything goes,child rapers, Islamo-Fascists and who knows what else.
"In fact, Ginsberg and Burroughs have written many love and sexual innuendos toward "young boys"
Posted by Peaches at September 10, 2004 09:20 AM
"Like I said earlier, several other cultures were very tolerant of homosexuality - and peadophilia. Ancient Greece, Rome..."
Posted by Matt W at September 10, 2004 09:23 AM
at September 13, 2004 7:19 AM
Rikki,
Can't we get Blue a tank or maybe some napalm.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 7:23 AM
Some history about the problems in Russia these days. I knew the communists had held down a great deal of ethnic/religous strife in their satellite countries. This answers a lot of my questions on it:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15040
Posted by: Gary at September 13, 2004 7:24 AM
Son of Infidel
I have found that liberals and leftests are:
always right;
always know best;
always have the moral high ground;
always need a village to raise YOUR kids (theirs go to exclusive private schools);
and NEVER take no for an answer.
I'll check out talkleft.com, but it sounds like you may not want to waste too much more time over there. As far as I am concerned, they work for the islamists.
I'm all for the second coming -- but in the mean time -- I say we fight, and pray to God our politicians don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by attempting to "negotiate" as they did in fallujah and demanding the Russians do with Chechnia.
Fallujah exists today thanks to the commander-in-chief; it should have otherwise been a smoking hole in the ground months ago.
Posted by: witness at September 13, 2004 7:27 AM
witness,
Its not to late, Fallujah can still be a "smoking hole" if they take off the gloves and stop playing around with these maggots.
Its time to clean out the rats nest of the Islamo-fascist vermin.We certianly have the fire-power to do this, now we need the resolve and will.
To prepare for peace with the Islamists ,is to prepare for WAR!
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 7:40 AM
Witness,
Sonny and I have been sticking it to the lefties on "Talkleft" for the past week or so (I've been going there for about 2 weeks but last monday I "recruited" some of the jihad/dhimmiwatch posse).
I've been giving "matter of fact" speaches about the danger of islam, the bloodshed it's responsible for and the agenda of the extreme-thinking muslims (as well as the reluctance of moderates to:
(a) Acknowledge what their "muslim brothers" are up to.
and....
(b)Despite their claims that terrorism is "un-islamic" and that terrorists are "going against the will of allah" and that the believers/perpertrators of violent jihad have twisted the words of the koran to their own end; we still see no major effort or condemnation from these self-proclaimed moderates to stop, or alter/dismiss the more extreme muslims views.
They now no I won't fall for any of the usual liberal crap from the "How to Counter Arguments Against Islam Manual", so have now actually stated discussing the msubject with me.
Although I agree with Sonny that a lot of them are ignorant liberal cretins, I do believe that some of them are actually starting to see islam in a different light, and doing their own study on the subject (we may have some converts).
at September 13, 2004 8:19 AM
Son of Infidel-
If you really want to see this site closed down and the hard work of many go for naught, by all means, please keep advocating tanks and napalm and childish violent solutions to what is a gargantuanly complex world problem. Remember, we won't have this forum any more, but you can bet that CAIR's site will be bigger than ever.
Blue-
The best thing you can keep on doing is to educate yourself as thoroughly as possible on the writings of the Koran and the ahadith. To counter Islamic terrorism, one must know the philosophy of the enemy. Tell people about the truth of Islam, again, and again, and again. Tell people all about what sort of person Muhammed really was. Talk about the murders, the pedophilia. Yes, you might get called "racist," or "intolerant," but eventually non-Muslims (and maybe even some Muslims as well!) will start to ponder the wisdom of your words, and realize that there has to be a reason why Islam is behind so many of the problems in the world today. Remember, Islam is not just a religion -- it's an ideology and world view which permits no others.
We are at the cusp of a new movement in human civilization. Although our numbers are yet small, they are growing. In time, we will be larger, more organized and productive.
My only caveat- I hope that there is still enough time.
Posted by: kafira at September 13, 2004 10:26 AM
kafira,
Evidently you have not realized that "some" of my comments are in jest.
Futhermore napalm and tanks are not that acessable, although I have run across one or two flamethrowers...
Stop over reacting and stay focussed on the important issues.
Posted by: Son of Infidel at September 13, 2004 10:42 AM
All Muslims everywhere are potential terrorists.
Posted by: Ummagumma at September 13, 2004 11:27 AM
I believe that God will not win this for us but will HELP us win Like he did in the war in 1812 when he sent a hurrican and tornado to hurt the Brit's?
The American People did not stop the fight but that was a help to go on to fight and WIN
Freedom is a wonderful gift from GOD but it is ours to protect! Islam does not give this gift it is important to have a choice or how can you be judged on what you do?
But do not fool yourself's You have to Fight for FREEDOM and good things!
When good men stand and do nothing nothing will be protected!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Use them as your Spear against this EVIL and Use your Hand to Shield them Open the Eyes of the World to the Islamic Terrorist Threat and Give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to Fight against the EVIL Amen
at September 13, 2004 12:22 PM
I watched a TV special about ATTA and while Muslims still deny he was involved or even that Islam was at the root of this evil sick mass slaughter,several factual claims followed his life and backed-up the trail of this murderer of Gods children for favor with Allah.
Also,while Islamic groups in England celebrate the "Victorious-19" as heroes of Islam,one website claims that 7 of the homiside killers for Allah are alive and the FBI faked all the photo's and ID of the hijackers.
Atta's passport was found on the trett in N.Y. and even that was claimed to be planted there by
the Bush Government. Atta's passport was traveling at the same speed as the airplane and
survived in the debre field that shot out the other side of the WTC.
I find it so self-degrading to Islam that Muslims insist they would never have the brains
to pull off a complex asault like the 9/11 attack.
But I guess those that claim Bush is an idiot and moron fail to see how he had the brains to pull this elamborate charade while only being in power about 8 months. Muslims don't want to admit this WAS an islamic attack blessed by Allah as in the Quran,the endless drone of how Muslims can't commit act of violence because the Quran forebids them from doing it,has really worn thin with me.
Muslims want us to believe that the 99.97 percent of them outside of the USA are all wrong and THEY are the "True" practiser of the Peaceful,tolerant Islam in their versions of the Quran.
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
Posted by: ala-sux at September 13, 2004 4:41 PM
One of the things that really puzzles me about Atta is his aversion to pregnant women being present at his funeral. (He left a will stating this.) Now, where are pregnant women and their "voodoo," for want of a Muslim word, mentioned in the Koran?? Granted, I have not yet read all of the ahadith, but this seems like this guy had definite issues with the ladies.
And his commandment for all his henchmen to shave their body/pubic hair to prepare for heaven and the subsequent virgins. Again, the ahadith tells us that Mohammed had a distaste for female pubic/body hair...but men shaving for the virgins ???? I can find nothing in the Koran or ahadith to support the ravings of this nut. If he were a normal American homosexual, the world would be much more peaceful today. I wish I could say I'm glad he's gone, but this psycho took thousands with him.
Posted by: kafira at September 13, 2004 8:50 PM
SFOD: I'll take Bach--especially Wachet Auf Ruft Uns die Stimme, since we've got people talking eschatology here--over Wagner, thank you, although the pig's feet we get here in Taiwan are absolutely the best in the world. Even Reza/Khaled would like them.
Brother Fundamentalist Christians (and sisters, too): don't count on any secret rapture. The passage on which the Plymouth Brethren based the doctrine, I Thessalonians 4:13-18, is the noisiest passage in either the OT or NT, with the Lord descending with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trumpet of God. It's clear that the saints meeting the Lord in the air is only what happens to those who are alive when the resurrection of the dead takes place.
We're going to have to face tribulations in this world, of which the furor islamicus is one.
Also, knowing the day and hour of Jesus' return is for God alone to know, not us. We must labor in His field until He rings the dinner bell for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb; not speculate on when it will sound.
Our job is to witness, cultivate an ethical example, and rebuild a God-honoring culture. Since God does not tell us to do so by cutting off others' heads, we have a very hard job ahead of us.
However, Islam's jihad is doomed to fail. Muhammad was so ignorant that he didn't know that assigning the title al-Masih to Jesus was a confession that Jesus was the one whom God anointed as final prophet, priest, and king; he thought the Christian Trinity included Mary; and plainly got his garbled accounts about biblical figures from the folklore of the (largely illiterate) Jews and Christians of his day. As for the hopes raised about a renewed Caliphate, the original one in the 7th century provided an ugly tale of factional strife and kinsmen turned against each other. Reza, bearing a name associated with the Shi'at-Ali (Party of Ali), ought to know better when he speaks of the Caliphate's glory.
Posted by: Kepha1 at September 15, 2004 6:17 AM
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