These brave muhajidin died at the by a terrible explosion from "zionists" missiles before they even got a chance to become matyrs for allah, where they'd have blown themselves up near some "zionist" hospitals or kids. How terribly thoughtless of the "zionists".

Posted by: Rikki at September 20, 2004 8:38 AM

"Hamas will teach the enemy (Israel) a painful lesson," said Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri.

Blah blah blah....they have never beat Isreal, and never will. Its high time that the fictional palestinians take their rightful place as the losers they are. Im sure they will try and murder a few innocent Israelis, maybe even succeed, but they will never win the war, the muslims are destined to always be beat by the Jews.

Posted by: USAgirl at September 20, 2004 9:05 AM

The distinction between a "jihadist" and those who want a "peaceful, negotiated settlement" perhaps needs elaboration. Jihad is not limited to combat (qital) -- i.e. military force. "Wealth" is a weapon -- the economic weapon. "Pen, speech" -- Da'wa and propaganda of all kinds, is a weapon. And demography -- now possible because of the extraordinay negligence and foolishness of those who did not take the time to study the tenets of Islam, which cannot be modified, cannot be sloughed off, and will keep coming back with virulence (look at how many Turks are now relapsing, despite 80 years of Kemalism, into a more fervent, and hence for Infidels, more dangerous, Islam).

A "peaceful, negotiated settlement" between Arabs and Israel guarantees nothing for the Infidel side (i.e. Israel). Any "negotiated settlement" by Muslims with Infidels is based, must islamically be based, on that the model for all Islamic agreements with Infidels, the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya. Such agreements have a limited life (ten years, though the time may be extended in cases where absolute necessity, darura, can be invoked as an excuse by the Muslim side), be breached -- and not only can it be breached, but it should be breached, it must be breached -- whenever the Muslim side feels it is sufficiently strong to go on the open attack.

"Jihad" is not a synonym for terrorism or even for military combat. There are many ways to spread Islam and subjugate the Infidels. Conquest was the main method, but in what is now the largest Muslim country, Indonesia, the conquest was largely through conversion and subversion. Hadrami traders (from the Hadramaut, in present-day Yemen) went as far as the East Indies (they were also prominent in the court of the Nizam of Hyderabad), but they were not the only ones. What the case of the East Indies proves is that military conquest is not necessary for Islam to spread, and slowly, but surely, come to overwhelm the locals. One often writes admiringly of the "syncretism" and "moderation" of Islam in Indonesia. But that misses the point. For a long time, the methods have had to be those that do not completely alienate what was once the Hindu, Buddhist, Confucian populatons of the East Indian archipelago. The peculiar features of Indonesian Islam becme more undestandable -- and it is quite clear that wherever the non-Muslim populaton has disappeared, the Middle Eastern brand of virulent Islam comes into full flower, on on Aceh. (See C. Snouck Hurgronje, The Acinese).

It is important that the word "Jihad" come into use throughout the Western world -- certainly to replace that idiotic word "terrorism" to describe, and deliberately hide, the fact that the phenomenon is part of a war by Islam against the entire non-Muslim world. But if the word "Jihad" is limited to violent Jihad, even at this website, then the most disturbing examples of the slow takeover of non-Muslim peoples and polities will not even be recognized, for without the proper words, as Confucius says, the "nation does not know where to put its feet and hands. Therefore, disorder in words must not be tolerated."

Jihad can be through combat, qital. (And some Muslims apparenelty allow themselves to believe that "combat" includes blowing up buildings, airplanes, seizing schools and hospitals and killing the Infidels found within, and so on). But it is also carried on through the use of "wealth" (i.e. money used to buy arms, to bribe officials, to hold out the prospect of contracts, and so on), and "pen, speech" (that is, Da'wa and other kinds of propaganda -- both to get others to "revert" to Islam, and to deny, among those whose goodwill one temporarily needs, or whose unwariness one wishes to prolong, the real tenets of Islam, to offer a smog of confusion whenever certain tenets, thoroughly based on Qur'an and hadith, are brought up for discussion by Infidels who have bothered to inform themselves -- surely a curious belief-system where the Believers themselves spend a good deal of time denying, or hiding, some of the very teachings that, among themselves, they find completely unremarkable and even compelling).

And another form of Jihad, the greatest weapon in Jihad, is "demographic conquest." It is not mentioned by name in Qur'an or hadith. But is certainly mentioned in the Muslim press, and one finds it, for example, even in letters to the editor in such a place as the Pakistani English-language newspaper "Dawn."

So, while it is understandable that for the moment, when we are still stuck in the rut of decrying "terrorism" and talking about a "war on terrorism" it is hard not only to utter the word "Jihad" but also it is tempting to discuss it only as violence. That is, in Western Europe, the least of its methods. "Jihad" is the struggle to spread Islam everywhere, and it is "defensive" in a very peculiar way: any effort by Infidels to attempt to prevent the spread of Islam, can be regarded as an act inimical to Islam and therefore an "aggressive" act justifying all sorts of counter-acts. Thus, if one were to limit mosque-building, or to prevent the building of minarets (an importanht sign of Muslim dominance, as they tower over other buildings -- or did, before the age of skyscrapers came along), to refuse to yield to Muslim demands (hijab, imposition of Sharia, initially only for Muslim familiy law, to be extended to other cases later, demands for prayer-rooms and time off for the five canonical prayers, refusal of women to have their I.D. photographs taken full-face, and so on ad infinitum, for demands can always be multiplied in order to manufacture clashes with Infidel authorities) -- if, in short, anyone stands in the way of the spread of Islam, that justifies attacks against them.

"Jihad" in all of its forms needs to be clearly defined, and understood, by Infidels, and once they have acquired that understanding, they need not only to thoroughly assimilate it, but to conduct a kind of counter-Da'wa of their own, taking every possible opportunity to enlighten others who have not taken the trouble or the time to understand what is going on. Now that so many university departments of Middle Eastern studies have essentially been seized by those who are apologists for Islam (for how else can one describe, for example, departments that do not have their students read, in toto, the Qur'an but rather a deliberately-sanitized version, who explain away all of its troublesome passages and fail to mention the doctrine of "abrogation" (naskh), that hardly touch on which hadith are considered the most "authentic," that hardly mention the sira of Muhammad (his sacralized biography), and never offer the students a serious syllabus about any of this, tiptoing around -- sometimes out of fear of the reaction of Muslim students (this has happened even at Princeton), sometimes out of a secret dislike of one's own culture and civilization, sometimes out of ignorance (what should one make of those who assign Karen Armstrong, or slightly higher on the food-chain, John Esposito, as "guides" to Islam?).

Autodidacticism is necessary here. It is not impossible. The Index Islamicus exists on CD-Rom. Many academic databases provide all sorts of articles. The real books on Islam -- Margoliouth, Fattal, Khadduri, Sir William Muir, Noldeke, Lammens, and so on -- are being reprinted, unstoppably. Many of them, no doubt, will be on the Internet. The students of the origins of early Islam, and of textual difficulties in the Qur'an, such as Christoph Luxenberg, and others, are continuing. Western historians of science are not being bullied into avoiding considering the most obvious question: why did Islamic science simply stop? What was it that explains the sudden disappearance of any achievement in that area (see Rodney Stark, see Toby Huff and the fury he aroused in George Saliba, a professor of Islamic science, in even raising that question). The little matter of the Muslim attitude toward statuary and paintings, or music, is no longer something that can be ignored, if one cares about the fate of certain works in the Uffizi, in the Louvre, in the Prado, and so on.

Dogmatisms always inhibit the free play of the mind. But some dogmatisms offer a more complete view of things, and to the extent that Islam appears to offer a Total Explanation of the Universe, it may be said to be the most thorough-going of dogmatisms. There are many Muslims who simply ignore, or do not fully accept, some of that Total Explanation. But,that Total Explanation is always there, and even skeptical Muslims have to work around it. Some of them, instead of forthrightly declaring their own views, either hide them, or what is worse, participate in the campaign to delude the Infidels. ONe wonders if those in the West who could not, for a minute, exist happily in their own societies, really wish to see a Muslim takeover of Western Europe, or whether, like Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, and thousnads of other articulate people born as Muslims, but who have jettisoned those beliefs entirely, they do not worry at least as much, because they know so much more, about that possibliity. If so, they really should begin to help -- just as, once upon a time, defectors from the KGB (under its various names) provided help in explaining, to Western audiences, governments, and security services, what Joseph Stalin, the Comintern, and the Red Army were all about.

Posted by: Hugh at September 20, 2004 9:24 AM

Time to break out the Oxy-Clean, there's another grease spot splattered on the street in the Arabian ghetto.....

Posted by: DCWatson at September 20, 2004 9:25 AM

YES! Another pig-f***ing, sh*t eating Jihadi gets the IDF retirement plan: a one-way ticket to a big sofa with 72 virgin sows... of course, if they start feeling lusty, they also have some little boys.

Posted by: kj at September 20, 2004 10:12 AM

Oh, here come the usual threats: there will be a volcano of retaliation, Israel has opened the gates of Hell, etc.

Hey, does anybody know where you can read the Koran without the modern-day apologist translations? I'd like to see what the Koran said two, thee-hundred years ago.

Posted by: kj at September 20, 2004 10:16 AM

Keith have you noticed how much they run their mouthes but can't seem to avoid Israel's foot being rammed up their asses?

The dirty Qur'an is nothing more than a war strategy against anyone non-Arabic. There are only a few verses in that book that need to be remembered, as the Muslims that infest America smile at us, lie and tell us they're only here to avoid violence in their shit hole homelands....

They're here to manipulate our Constitution to benefit them, while they scrogg their fat ugly wives in order to gain in population.

Posted by: DCWatson at September 20, 2004 10:27 AM

This goes along with what Hugh stated,
Everyone needs to go to:
www.frontpagemagazine.com/content/lettertoduke.asp

and sign the petition there to try to stop
Duke University from hosting the next Palestian Solidarity Conference.

At UC Berkely and at the University of Michigan, the slogan was "Kill the Jew", when they hosted the conference.

We have to stand up and let our schools know this can't be tolarated.

Our kids are at risk by allowing these kinds of functions to take place. It's a sad fact, but on college campus' nationwide, revised history is being taught as far as the Middle east is concerned, our kids don't know enough "true" history in that area and are getting swept up in the propaganda.

Our kids are becoming the main benefactors of these groups because they don't know any better. And for the apologist academics at the colleges, this is just a perfect scenario.

Posted by: susan_b at September 20, 2004 10:32 AM

The Qur'an can be found on-line, in 3 or 4 translations offered side-by-side for the purposes of comparison, at www.usc.edu. At the same site, you can find the hadith (more properly, for the plural, ahadith, but unnecessarily pedantical, as the late Henry Fowler would have said), from the recensions that are most widely accepted to contain "strong" (i.e. "authentic" in the minds of Muslims, because the Chain or Isnad by which these stories about what Muhammad said or did, or even what he did not say when something occurred, has been deemed more, rather than less, reliable -- of course, Western scholars of Islam, from Goldziher on, have questioned the authenticity of the hadith, or as anything more than stories spun out of the Qur'anic text) hadith -- those of Bukhari and Muslim.

For the amount of mental power, and time, lavished upon, for example, the Isnad chain, there are other places to go. But for now, why not stick with the Qur'an (always keeping in mind "naskh" or the "science of abrogation, whereby many of the earlier and softer verses are simply abrogated by those much harsher verses deemed later -- on precisely the same principle, but hardly with the same result, as Brown v. Bd. of Education reversing, and thereby cancelling, Plessy v. Ferguson.

Posted by: Hugh at September 20, 2004 10:40 AM

A prime example of the Palestinian mindset. When the terrorist criminals murder innocent civilians, even women and children, that is justified. When these criminals are taken out, then it’s an attack on “innocent Muslims.” How in the world can anyone negotiate peace with them - be it Israeli’s or anyone else? There can be no negotiated peace. The Israeli’s seem to be the ones that are condemned in this conflict. We must look at one important difference;

Palestinians target civilians.
Israeli’s target terrorist criminals.

Posted by: THSIMJ at September 20, 2004 11:13 AM

One day every single copy of the koran will be smeared in shit(more so than now) and burnt,in a time when muslims are eradicated and islam is banned.

Posted by: Rikki at September 20, 2004 11:41 AM

KJ,
I'm sure you know where to find them some little boys to play with.
Thats if you can find time when your not spanking your monkey while fantasizing about a tit-wank from Michael Moores D-cup breasts.

Posted by: Rikki at September 20, 2004 12:33 PM

It's always a great day when some dirt-bag like this gets sent to the gates of hell where he will be greeted by Satan. Congrats to Israel on another job well done!

Posted by: Buck at September 20, 2004 12:55 PM

Rikki~ Eeep? We may disagree with Keith on who will do the better job/outlook on the world in general, but take it easy on him, ok?

Posted by: Gary at September 20, 2004 1:13 PM

A long time ago i realised that "violent terrorism" was only the tip of the iceberg in the war against western civilisation waged by islam.
The other wars eg:- the demographic war, the war of indoctrination in our schools and universities, the war of press propaganda, and the political war of islamic advancement within our society,the war of the historic revisionism of islamic history, are in fact almost totally ignored by our media.
Yet they are infinitely more dangerous.
When a building catches fire it is newsworthy and reported but when it crumbles slowly through the effects of say termites the destruction is almost unnoticed.
It could be argued that had the violent jihadists raised public attention through their slaughters of westerners, The islamification of the west might have carried on in stealth and unnoticed by the majority.
It is this stealth invasion which must be constantly monitored and exposed if we are to have any chance of defending ourselves.
How can this be done with the left wing western press blocking any advances on these fronts ?

Posted by: nonsuch at September 20, 2004 3:03 PM

DC-
Oxy-clean? How about agent orange.
KJ-
I have an old Koran in the outhouse.
Rikki-
Having a bad day?
SusanB-
XXX

Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 20, 2004 4:47 PM

The words "revenge" and "terrorism" appear to be falling more and more out of fashion.

As Hugh points out, they simply don`t fit anymore. Unless you want revenge for the mere fact that a person is either a jew,or some kind of infidel (anybody that is not a muslim). And that seems to be enough for the jihadists to kill. Never mind that you may be another Mother Teresa. Though terrorism can be seen as a broad term, the use of it, at times almost seems generic rather than what it really is;
A war with an Islamic totalitarian movement not unlike that of the third Reich nazi movement. The differences being that of a well defined army with established leaders, rather than individuals responding to the warped, and militants tenants of a religious totalitarian movement that spawns its own leaders at will. And the whole process needs its ignorant followers so that those who choose to lead can achieve wealth and power.

For Israel: The word revenge being heard from Hamas has no meaning, for them it is nothing but the false and deceptive mask of evil. It is the never ending flow of deception and lies that the civilized world is beginning to see clearly. Israel knows all to clearly that there shall never be peace with Palestine, but they will continue to play the peace card just for the worlds ignorant public consumption.

Posted by: Mackie at September 20, 2004 10:43 PM

Rikki-
Having a bad day?
SusanB-
XXX

Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 20, 2004 04:47 PM

Degenerate Artist,
EXTREMELY!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rikki at September 21, 2004 9:25 AM

Thanks for the help Gary. Debate between opposing parties is a good sign of a healthy democracy.

Alas, some people just can't think/speak/write clearly, and result to insults. Churchill said that profanity is the last desparate attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcibly. Of course, combining profanity (a la "tit-wank") with gay insults is MUCH more effective than profanity alone. At least Rikki and his chums from High School must've thought so.

Yeah, Rikki is having himself a very, very bad day. The evil KJ gave him a serious red-ass over at another comment. Rikki, imagining that he was some kind of Rambo, was spouting off about going to Pakistan to send a few jihadis to Allah, just talking trash, blah blah, oink oink.

(It is easy to imagine that guys like this have never donned a military uniform... once they are too old or fat, or when a war breaks out and they are "too good" to serve, or have health problems like diabetes or bedwetting that prevent them from serving, they start to talk reeeeeal militaristic.)

I told him that he was acting very immature and asked him, if he is so good with a rifle, and depsarate for some jihadi target practice, why not try London? (He has said that he lives in England.) There have been many articles at this site detailing the Muslims of London claiming that "England will be under Sharia" and praising the "Magnificient 19", etc. etc.

I guess maybe Rikki might not know where London is. It probably is pretty hard to find the biggest city in Europe on an island about the size of Florida.

Prattle on, Rikki. Your condemnations of me are only a bad reflection on you. Are you trying to insult Mike Moore for being fat? Or me for supposedly being gay? You're the one with the girly name, and --you know what? Now that you mention it, Mike IS fat! I hadn't noticed! Maybe he should try the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin diet plan.

Rikki is like the American "militia movement," a warmed-over racist mob that tries to put on a military aire to impress even more weak-minded fools into joining.

They TALK tough, but when it comes down to brass tacks, all they really do is talk. That's why the militia in Michigan, one of the most active in America, stands by like a bunch of girl scouts while the jihadis take over Dearborn and Hammtramck.

I guess they are soooo busy whining about Jews and waiting for their imaginary caucasian-negro "race war" they've fixated on, they don't even notice the Sharia creeping in.

The "militia movement" is constantly reinventing itself as some kind of populus, "real" American group. First they were (more overtly) racist, then they morphed into an "anti-big government" group, then a "fundamentalist Christian" group, and are now firmly ensconced is some kind of "patriotic" disguise.

Likewise our poor Rikki, talking tough to a stranger in Pakistan, wishing that he were "man enough" to get his hands on a rifle, actually learn to use it, somehow smuggle it into Pakistan, and start shooting. He would probably kill all of two or three before a mob turned him into dog food.

Rikki, maybe you could start a British Militia. They take fatties, bedwetters, and REAL military rejects. I saw them in Mike Moore's "Bowling For Columbine."

Posted by: kj at September 21, 2004 12:45 PM

Churchill also said, ...But we must never cease to proclaim in fearless tones the great principles of freedom and the rights of man which are the joint inheritance of the English-speaking world and which through Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights, the Habeas Corpus, trial by jury, and the English common law find their most famous expression in the American Declaration of Independence.

Posted by: kj at September 21, 2004 12:53 PM

Churchill was right- and George Bush did just that yesterday at the UN. Thanks for pointing that out, Keith!

Posted by: Gary at September 22, 2004 10:56 AM