Another glib tongued,lying Muslim who wants to destroy his Host Country.

Posted by: Morgane at September 23, 2004 9:29 PM

And then their community leaders are shocked and disgusted when we express a tad bit of suspicion and no confidence in them, their religion and their organisations.

How can these people be trusted at all, and since techincaly we are in a state of war these people should be banned, and deported?

Posted by: Joe Bananas...in Pyjamas at September 23, 2004 9:37 PM

The REST of the story...

Muslim lecturer indicted in terror case
From Kevin Bohn
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Muslim lecturer, Ali al-Timimi, was indicted by a federal grand jury Thursday, on charges including counseling people to engage in a conspiracy to levy war against the United States, to aid the Taliban and to use firearms in violent crimes.

The United States alleges al-Timimi, who lectured at a prominent Northern Virginia mosque until the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, told followers attending a meeting that Islamic history justifies attacks on civilians, that those fighting Americans in Afghanistan would die as martyrs and how to reach a terrorist training camp in Pakistan.

"We are going to deny all the charges," al-Timimi's attorney, James Vann, told CNN.

"He has a record of lectures going back years and years, 15 to 20 years preaching non-violence and cooperation between the Muslim world and America."

The indictment is part of a government case in which 11 men were charged last year as part of a "Virginia jihad network." The 11 faced accusations of helping the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and using paintball games as a way to train for possible terrorist activity. Nine of the men either pleaded guilty or were convicted. Al-Timimi was not charged in the indictment.

Lashkar-e-Taiba, designated by the United States as a terrorist organization, has fought to gain independence for Kashmir. India and Pakistan have fought two wars over the disputed region, which is divided by the "Line of Control."

The indictment alleges al-Timimi helped at least five of those defendants to levy war against the United States, supply services to the Taliban and take part in military expeditions against U.S. allies.

The indictment states that al-Timimi told seven of those defendants at a September 16, 2001, meeting, "The time had come for them to go abroad to join the mujahedeen engaged in violent jihad in Afghanistan."

It also charges al-Timimi told them that "American troops likely to arrive in Afghanistan would be legitimate targets of the violent jihad in which his listeners had a duty to engage."

Prosecutors allege the lecturer advised some of the men how to reach undetected a terror training camp run by Laskhar-e-Taiba and al-Timimi said the meeting must be kept secret.

The indictment alleges that between September and October of 2001, four of the men who had attended al-Timimi's meeting went to Pakistan to train at the camp.

"While bodies were still being pulled from the rubble of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and while America was mourning the loss of over 3,000 people, the defendant counseled young men to bear arms against the United States. Today's charges are a major step forward in holding this lecturer accountable for his dangerous actions against America," U.S. Attorney Paul McNulty stated in a news release.

Concerning the meeting listed in the indictment, al-Timimi's attorney said his client was invited to a dinner where he talked about the problems facing Muslims living in the United States in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

"The extent of it [was], if you are concerned, go to another country and reside with your wife," Vann said.

Last year, al-Timimi told Arabic language network Al-Jazeera: "An American citizen should never kill another fellow American, no matter what the pretext. In Islamic law, if an Islamic country is attacked, those citizens of that country have a right to self-defense. And this is something that is not just an Islamic law, but it's also an international law.

"So, for the government to take a discussion that I might have had in the past, talking about the law of warfare in Islam, where I might say in a lecture that I gave in 1996 that if an Islamic country [is attacked], by Islamic law, then the inhabitants of that country can defend themselves. And now to try to say that therefore I have encouraged killing, it is really a very silly and theatrical sort of way of trying to present charges."

Officials said al-Timimi is not under arrest, and he is expected to face arraignment October 1.

Vann said, "We feel the timing of this is suspect" because the attorneys had told the government that al-Timimi is scheduled to defend a dissertation on cancer research in five weeks, and the indictment will make that impossible unless he is freed on bail.

Vann said al-Timimi has made himself available to the government and had been interviewed seven times.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/23/lecturer.indicted/index.html

Posted by: eyeonjannah at September 23, 2004 9:53 PM

This is exactly what the government should be doing. It should be as indomitable as it can be -- and just to remind people, please do read "Under Cover" by John Roy Carlson, about someone who infiltrated the pro-Nazi groups that continued to function just before, and in the first years, of World War II. But they were put out of business, rounded up, or jailed, or exposed to public ridicule, mistrust, hostility, economic boycott.

The imam who said that Islamic history justifies killing of civilians certainly has Qur'an and Sunna on his side -- and a host of examples from the history of Muhammad to back him up. Islamically, he is perfectly correct. And he is also an enemy of the United States of America, the country in which he happens now to be living, and of every non-Muslim living here as well.

Posted by: Hugh at September 23, 2004 10:01 PM

A dissertation on cancer research? Who intends to hire him? Who intends to fund Ali al-Timimi, to give him a grant? Let al-Timimi return whence he came, and enjoy the bounty of that famous "Islamic science" we hear so much about, that seems to have petered out about a thousand years ago (about the same time as wehn the Christians and Jews under Muslim rule had been greatly reduced in size, and those remaining no longer had the intellectual freedoms to collaborate with Muslims that they had, in a few places, previously possessed).

After all, Saudi Arabia alone has taken in 1-2 trillion dollars. And it certainly has a need for cancer researchers, right? So let Timimi apply for a post in Saudi Arabia -- a perfect fit, all way round. And one less -- not mouth to feed, but "Islamic lecturer" to monitor.

This security stuff. monitoring all these Muslims, then prosecuting them, is getting very expensive. We need that money for other things --you know, health insurance, and solar energy, and good things like that. Those good things are beginning to droop and drowse. Time for a little watering from Washington.

Posted by: Hugh at September 23, 2004 10:09 PM

He'll walk... just like the Alqaeda website designer in Idaho, just like Captain Yee, just like Al Aryan (might), just like Sergeant SomeMuslim (that Syrian-born soldier "translating" in Gitmo), just like Yaser Hamdi, and just like the Oregon lawyer who's fingerprint was "found" at the Madrid train bomb site.

I wonder when Jose "Dirty Nuke" Padilla is going to get sent home?

But DON'T WORRY... Asscraft is hot on the trail of people like Tommy Chong and Martha Stewart, RNC NYC protestors, and the SUV-burning eco-terrorists! Thank goodness!

And Tom Ridge managed to keep his favorite artist, Catbox 'Yousuck Islam' Stevens out of Nashville!

What a joke... really, people. Really. When was the last time the police solved a major crime?

OJ walked.

Eric Rudolph (R-Fetus) was found on a fluke rummaging for garbage to eat (and may walk on a technicality; I guess those NC policemen who "prayed for" the unrepentant cop-killer must have prayed real good).

They don't know who killed JFK, MLK, or Jon Benet.

Sirhan Sirhan was caught at the scene.

The Anthrax Mailer (R-Texas) still remains at large.

Al-Aryan's bud Ramadan Shallah flew away scott free to lead Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and Al-Aryan's brother-in-law, Al Najir, was flown to Lebanon courtesy of the taxpayers of the USA on a private charter jet (but now, three years later, they have finally indicted him!)

We will never know all the facts about 9-11; why there were no fighter jets scrambled, how the amatuer pilots flew like seasoned professionals, why the towers fell (a skyscraper in Philadelphia burned for 19 hours and didn't fall), why Bin Laden's family was allowed to leave, and how Bin Laden snuck away at Tora Bora.

The Unibomber (D-Middle of Nowhere) was turned in by his brother.

Jessica Lynch was rescued by a Muslim, and "Saddam Hussein" (or a close resemblance)was "found" in a spider hole without firing a single shot.

They never found the Lindbergh Baby kidnappers.

They botched the Baby Aisenberg Case.

Scott Peterson's going to walk.

R Kelly got off.

The Michael Jackson case is... a bizarre cirucs.

Oh, but here's some good news at last! They have proven that Janet Jackson bared her naked breast on public television during the Superbowl! Wow. I guess they solved that case fast, huh? Sleep peacefully, America. We are perfectly safe. (oh god, pass the valium...)

Posted by: kj at September 23, 2004 10:23 PM

A thought - if al Timimi was such a "peaceful" lecturer and had been so for the past 15-20 years, why did he absent himself from the mosque after 9/11? Afraid of being monitored maybe?

I'm sure he's just as innocent of these charges as all the convicts are on death row who have found "God" during their many appeals.

I'm afraid I have to agree with kj. The government's track record for convictions is not one to inspire confidence. People such as al Timimi plot to destroy the USA, and then expect the courts to grant them all the protection of the law. Maybe we should adopt a "take no prisoners" stance. If a mistake is made, let Allah sort them out.

Posted by: Hannah at September 23, 2004 10:52 PM

These Virginia cases are truly landmark in that they represent the leading edge of a wave of proscecutions and convictions under Terrorism and the Treason, Sedition & Subversive Activities chapters of the federal criminal statutes. Here is a link to the March 4, 2004 convictions.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at September 23, 2004 10:56 PM

KJ's "he'll walk" mail makes depressing reading.

I say screw the liberal rants and make the burden of proof much more reasonable in terrorism trials.

But then who knows, our overzealously liberal judges will allow the scum to walk coz the law is unduly harsh in terrorism cases?

Gitmo was a brilliant idea, if only coz it kept the actist judiciary out of the way. But then we must ask, what has gitmo delivered in terms of actionable intelligence and network breakthroughs. We must ask what Ashcroft has done in his tenure at the helm, how many convictions? how many investigations?

Posted by: voletti at September 23, 2004 10:57 PM

Re: Hugh's post . . .

"This security stuff. monitoring all these Muslims, then prosecuting them, is getting very expensive."

Doesn't the DEA gets some funding by by confiscating all material possessions of the convicted drug trafficer/user?

All material possessions (property i.e. real estate, cars, boats, jewelry, etc. . .) are put up for auction. If I'm not mistaken, these proceeds are turned over to fund the DEA.

If the war on terror could be funded in this fashion, it may help.

Once convicted on a terrorism related charge, the penalty should be extremely tough and clearly send the message that the US is serious and will prosecute to the full extent of the law for every offense.

If the convict is an immigrant, green card/citizenship should be revoked and the individual deported upon completion of incarceration.

All personal material possessions (car, real estate, computers etc.) should be confiscated.

If the crime was linked to any activity taking place in a mosque (such as a phone call for fund-raising for terrorist organizations, sermons inciting terrorist activities or praising past terrorist actions (as in 9-11), recruitment for jihad, or teaching of anti-semetic/anti-American ideology, etc. . . .
During the prosecution phase, the mosque should be closed and sealed off.
Once the conviction is made, the mosque, it's entire contents, and the property on which it sits should be and auctioned as well. This concept is to encourage the moderate Muslim to step up to the plate and refuse to tolerate extremist ideology.

That should help put a dent in the cost.

Posted by: justamomof4 at September 23, 2004 11:00 PM

We do need federal legislation of some sort to streamline prosecution and punishment of Muslims who either plot against the United States, or provide moral and/or material support for those that do. Stripping of citizenship and deportation are my preferences. Why spend money to prosecute and then keep these folks in our jails?

Since we are at war with an ideologically motivated enemy that seeks to destroy us from within, limitations to due process can be justified; the enemy seeks to use our courts and Constitution against us. There are compelling national security reasons for streamlining due process; perhaps even an eventual admendment to the Constitution: The Islamic Protection Amendment

And, since due process will be constrained, punishment will be adjusted: expulsion from the US as a 'likely enemy' of the United States rather than incarceration.

Posted by: JTF at September 24, 2004 12:31 AM

You know KJ, I think I agree with you. The liberal wing of this country has really fkd things up so we really don't have any confidence in our judicial system. I think it's time for a good conservative wind to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 24, 2004 12:33 AM

Bush needs to win so we can get some conservatives on the SUpreme Court. Period. If Kerry wins, we'll have more "Let 'em walk" types turning the Bill of Rights into a suicide pact.

Posted by: Kepha1 at September 24, 2004 1:35 AM

Kepha1
I agree, no more liberal judges that will let the Moslems have more rights in the USA then an America... That should be treason.

Posted by: Bar at September 24, 2004 2:34 AM

I wonder if he and the group arrested had links to the compound in Virginia, where the paintball training took place?

On the links side of the site page is another site called Virginiastan, we should all go over there and take a look at it.

They may have more info on this subject.

Posted by: susan_b at September 24, 2004 4:10 AM

That is a good point about the Anthrax Mailer, Keith. Uhm, does anyone know the political affiliation of the two men who's lives have been destroyed so far by the investigations on this?

http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/1911_0_2_0_C/

Posted by: Gary at September 24, 2004 6:32 AM

Unless lecturers are willing to teach the full,original, uncensored, non-PC, arabic version of the koran at universities, they should not be allowed to teach about islam at all, it is all lies.

Posted by: Rikki at September 24, 2004 10:42 AM

I JUST HEARD SOME UNCONFIRMED REPORTS THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN HAS BEEN CAPTURED AND BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS TIGHT LIPPED. PLEASE CONFIRM THIS.

Posted by: Ummagumma at September 24, 2004 11:04 AM

JWers:

This will be posted on multiple threads and periodically for the next few days, so I apologize in advance for the repetition.

Susan B and I are compiling a list of e-mail addresses for JWers/DWers who might wish to contact each other personally. Once your name is on the list, if someone wants to contact you, you will first be contacted by Susan who will obtain your authorization before giving out your e-mail address to the individual who requests it. So far we've had a pretty good response to our previous posts but there are a lot of familiar names missing! If you'd like to join our contact list, send your info (be sure to include your JW screenname so we know who you are) to susan_b356@yahoo.com.

CGW

Posted by: CGW at September 24, 2004 11:32 AM

The arrest of Al-Timimi is disclosed in today's The New York Times in a nearly invisible few paragraphs, at the very bottom, left, on page A23. This is incredible. No, actually, it isn't. And that is the problem.

Al-Timimi is some kind of bigshot lecturer on "Islamic Sciences," a pioneer in "the Islamization of knowlege" movement. You get the idea -- if knowledge isn't "islamized," well then it isn't knowledge. A Muslim twist on the celebrated couplet about Benajmin Jowett, Master of Balliol:

I am the Master of this college
And what I don't know isn't knowledge.

Well, for Believing Muslims, there is precious little worth knowing about outside of Islam (which is why there has been such amazing lack, for example, of translations into Arabic -- more books are translated in Spain every year than, according to a report by Arab Muslim scholars, have been translated into Arabic since time began). So Al-Timimi presumably is involved in masticating and predigesting whatever it is Muslims need to know about (cancer research?) and making it part and parcel of Islamic Science. You see, he magically "islamizes" it -- presto-chango, and it is then acceptable for reception in otherwise impressionable minds.

In the suburbs of Washington, a version of Tariq Ramadan, busily beavering away on behalf of the Jihad.

Possibly the next such story will rate, in the Times, the bottom of page A22? Hope springs.

Posted by: Hugh at September 24, 2004 11:54 AM

isn't "islamization" of knowledge sort of like the fantasy that columbus saw minarets in cuba? or that australia was a muslim state before the criminals arrived? does this now mean that muhammed invented chemotherapy? i've gotta say, michael moore has his work cut out for him to top this outrageousness

Posted by: ted at September 24, 2004 2:13 PM

susan_b
where the paintball training took place?

Are you kidding?

I would love to make them eat my paintballs.

I will have ones made that really have pig fat fill....

Maybe all Americans that play paintball will shoot all their Moslem neighbors with pig fat fill paint balls...

I cant picture them running around the paintball field yelling Allah Akbar and shooting the infidels....

LMAO

Posted by: Bar at September 24, 2004 9:23 PM

Bar,

I'm serious!! There is a huge muslim compound in Virginia (which also has connections to the compound in Fresno), where they run Muslim schools and a training center for war tactics.

They have a sign at the gate that says:
"You are now leaving the United States Of America. Trespassers will be shot"

One of the imans there was just arrested about 2 years ago for his part in the murder of 2 Georgia State troopers.

In Fresno, a member of that compound was arrested for the murder of a Fresno County sheriff's deputy.

The state of California had been giving them educational funding until they found out that none of their instructors were licensed to teach.

Neighbor's have reported seeing men on the compounds patroling with assult rifles.

Google-Muslim compound in Fresno and do the same again with Virginia.

That's why I wondered if this guy had any connection.

Posted by: susan_b at September 25, 2004 2:06 AM

I forgot to add, that the amount of funds the Fresno compound had collected over the years from the state, was estimated to be around 5 million dollars.

Guess where that went?????????

Cause it didn't go into the compound. That place is just short of a junkyard from the pictures.

Posted by: susan_b at September 25, 2004 2:08 AM