Arafat's Beslan

Ehud Olmert reminds us of the massacre at Ma'alot in 1974 which was perpetrated by Arafat's PLO:

"In 1974, as a newly elected Knesset member, I watched the terrorist assault on a school in Ma'alot as it played out along Israel's northern border. Palestinian gunmen, ironically from a PLO faction funded by the Russians, infiltrated a high school and took dozens of students hostage. Before the army could free the children, the terrorists managed to kill 26 of them. At the time, the idea that a ruthless terrorist could deliberately murder Israeli children seemed almost beyond even our belief. What sort of desperate animals, we demanded, seek to advance their political agendas by slaughtering children? Surely the international order would insist that all the culprits be hunted down and punished.

But the world voiced only silence, and business went on as usual. Israelis were forced to learn that our tragedies were always going to be personal affairs, and that there would be no united international response to terror. Indeed, the democratic states in Europe provided the first cracks in the front, insisting on maintaining relations with the PLO after Ma'alot while accepting that there were no real consequences when it comes to Arab terror."

Posted by: Mike at November 11, 2004 4:14 PM

G-d bless the victims of this monster. May they be avenged in this world and the next.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 4:16 PM

And let's not forget the estimated 250,000 Christian men, women and children slaughtered - often in the most barbaric ways - in Lebanon at Arafat's behest.

I wonder if he will continue to be deified by Palestinians in the future, or whether the weight of evidence about how he stole tens of millions of dollars in aid from them will corrode his teflon image.

Posted by: Benelux at November 11, 2004 4:27 PM

I don’t have enough words of appreciation for Jeff Jacoby and The Boston Globe for the article “Arafat The Monster.” All the media in the “free world” should do the same.

Posted by: THSIMJ at November 11, 2004 4:40 PM

INDEED! What better way to euglogise this monster than by remembering the innocent victims instead .

Fatal Terrorist Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles
(September 1993-November 1, 2004)
Each and every victim is named at this site:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html

From the signing of the Declaration of Principles between Israel and the PLO on September 13, 1993, until September 2000, 256 civilians and soldiers were killed in terrorist attacks in Israel. Another 1032 Israelis have been killed since the start of the "al-Aksa intifada" in September 2000 (Note: This list also includes four Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets). Between September 29, 2000, and September 1, 2004, Magen David Adom treated a total of 6,665 casualties as follows: 885 killed, 566 severely injured, 825 moderately and 4,389 lightly injured, among them 11 MDA staff members. (IDF casualties treated by IDF medical personnel are not included in these figures.) Note: This list also includes 6 Israelis killed abroad in terror attacks directed specifically against Israeli targets, and 3 American diplomatic personnel killed in Gaza.

Then continue to read the names of American victims:

American Victims of Mideast Terrorist Attacks

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/usvictims.html

Posted by: justamomof4 at November 11, 2004 4:50 PM

The stench of this monster is sure to permeate the whole of the middle east for years to come. The way the media is fawning all over this rotten maggot makes me want to puke. What an easy way for that lower than snake shit scum bag of a poor excuse of a human specimen to go out. May his worthless soul wallow in an eternal hell of nothing but swine waste. Good riddance at last to one of the most evil sub human life forms ever to be born in modern times.

Posted by: krkrjak at November 11, 2004 4:54 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041111/481/par12211112021

You are either with the terrorists or against them.

Who is France with?

Posted by: bart at November 11, 2004 5:14 PM

Two old cliches with much more than a grain of truth to each:

Actions speak louder than words.
You are judged by the company you keep.

Posted by: jay at November 11, 2004 5:18 PM

Thank you Jeff Jacoby.
Let us remember all those slaughtered,
Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, and from so many other communities,
slaughtered
in the name of allah,
in the name of mo.

Lets us remember,
and let us determine
that this evil shall not survive another generation.

How, you ask, how do we end this 1400 year reign of terror.

Not by accepting islam as a valid religion.
Not by turning the other cheek, sorry to say.
Not by reason and not by moderation.

The southern Sudanese understand,
the Hindu Indians understand,
the Russians seem to understand,
the Israelis understand,
the Christian Nigerians understand,
the Serbians understand,
the Armenians have long understood,
the Dutch are beginning to understand.

Posted by: dby at November 11, 2004 5:27 PM

The Palestinians have known no other than good old Yassir. It was expected that they would mourn the death or their super hero.

But, isn't there one savvy thought in their collective heads about what Yassir Arafat did with all of THEIR money?

Will Suha being allowed to maintain her Paris lifestyle all on the Palestinian dime?

Will Abu Mazzen seamlessly fill that role of squirrel by hording away the international aid into private Swiss bank accounts?

The only given in this closing of the Arafat drama will be the perpetual Palestinian "focus of blame."

And all international observers know where the "blame" lies...

Posted by: Moe's Foe at November 11, 2004 6:10 PM

Why hasn't Arafat been buried yet ? Because the garbage men in the Gaza Strip are on strike.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at November 11, 2004 6:22 PM

Here is a good picture of Arafat:

http://www..masada2000.org./ChildrenOfPalestine.html

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 6:23 PM

Link didn't work

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 6:24 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1514&ncid=1312&e=27&u=/afp/20041111/wl_mideast_afp/mideast_arafat_palestinian_barghuti

"It's important to hold on to the national principles and values that were laid down by the martyred leader who has spent all his life implementing. We must retain our national unity, our commitment to the intifada and our commitment to real democracy and the establishment of law and order."

What values?

Posted by: bart at November 11, 2004 6:32 PM

http://www.masada2000.org/ChildrenOfPalestine.html

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 6:34 PM

I don't like the Papa Roach midi of Last Resort. I would rather hear the real thing.

Posted by: bart at November 11, 2004 6:39 PM

http://images.apple.com/movies/us/games/worldofwarcraft/world_of_warcraft_m480.mov

Quite a bit OT but this world of warcraft trailer is pretty neat and I think of the burning legion as islam.

P.S.- need quicktime to view.

Posted by: bart at November 11, 2004 6:46 PM

Evil Jihad
What country do you live in?

Posted by: Voltaire at November 11, 2004 6:46 PM

On May 15, 1974 (Israel's Independence Day) a group of 11th grade students from Safed (Tsfat) were on a field trip to the Golan... That night, the children were housed at a school in Ma’alot where they slept on the floor. During the night, three Arab terrorists dressed as IDF soldiers attacked the school, killing the guard and some of the children. Some of the children escaped by jumping out of a window on the second floor and the rest were held as hostages.

The Knesset met in emergency session. Although Israel’s policy forbid negotiation with terrorists, the plight of the children forced an exception. By 3:00PM a decision was reached to negotiate, but the terrorists refused a request for more time.
At 5:45PM a unit of the elite Golani brigade stormed the building. All of the terrorists were killed in the assault, but not before they took the lives of 21 children. There were a total of 26 victims, including several people murdered by the terrorists on their way to the school the night before.
From http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_terrorism_1970s.php
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house-- for I have five brothers--so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'" . ( Luke 16:19-31 )

In light of Mr Arafat’s many accomplishments
I trust that the God of the Jew’s ( Yahweh ) has picked the correct underground local for our terrorist friend. The best part is that he can see paradise, he just cant get their!

Posted by: Bar at November 11, 2004 7:15 PM

The Australian media are not shedding too many crocodile tears on the demise of the monster, even the pro-Palestinian Sydney Morning Herald.

Australian PM John Howard stated:

"History will judge him harshly for not having seized the opportunity in 2000 to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then Israeli PM Ehud Barak. I find it very hard to believe that he couldnt have taken more action to restrain the activities of terrorist organisations."

Howard is not attending the funeral, Foreign Minister Alaxander Downer is the Australian representative. A nice polite slap in the face.

Nothing much from the Muslim community in Australia so far.

Posted by: DianaC at November 11, 2004 7:59 PM

Everyone check out the video about Arafats life on Frontpage magazine. Or click on the link below:

http://www.honestreporting.com/m/legacy.asp

Posted by: obl r us at November 11, 2004 8:41 PM

And to think Dhimmi Carter eulogised this POS by calling him a "powerful symbol of humanity".....

More like a powerful symbol of what's wrong with Humanity.

Posted by: voletti at November 11, 2004 9:05 PM

But my Dears, our 'Holy Warrior' was only following in the footsteps of Prophet Mohammed who was the original Terrorist of all Time! Islam is the only Religion I know of where the more criminal acts you do, you are considered more 'holy' by Satanic Rock God Allah...

Posted by: Morgane at November 11, 2004 9:12 PM

I heard on Michael Savage tonight that the U.N. is flying its flag at half-staff in honor of this subhuman beast. But Ronald Reagan wasn't worthy of their respect! The U.N. is the biggest farce on American soil.

Posted by: Susanp at November 11, 2004 9:51 PM

I have a strong suspicion that what Pres, Bush really meant was, "May God have mercy on his soul..." as in what the English0speaking judges of yesteryear said to people condemned to the gallows.

Frankly, although, as a point in Psalm 119 says, "horror seized me for the wicked", I do not wish Hell on anyone other than the Devil and his angels, for whom it was originally prepared--because I know that it is real and way too terrible to contemplate.

Posted by: Kepha1 at November 11, 2004 10:16 PM

I have exactly three words for anyone who wants to eulogize Arafat:

Shalhevet Techiya Pass, a'h".

Baby Shalhevet was nearly one year old when her mother took her to a local park in Hevron on a warm afternoon. Shalhevet enjoyed watching the older children play, and her mum visited with her friends.

A sniper fired from the Arab quarter of Hevron. As Shalhevet was held in her mother's arms, a bullet hit her in her tiny head. She was killed, a few others were wounded. That night you could hear the whooping, music and celebrating of the Muslims in Hevron. The anguish of the Jews was too profound for sobbing or wailing aloud.

Arafat would not condemn the murder of this baby girl. May God avenge her blood.

There is a photo gallery posted on the Net of baby Shalhevet. Her parents agreed to this, because all too often, people forget the innocent while the murderers stay in the spotlight. You may view this gallery here:

http://www.hebron.org.il/pics/shalhevet.htm

WARNING: the photos are extremely graphic. I cry every time I think of her. Arafat should be written in history as a murderous thug.

Posted by: libbysmom at November 11, 2004 11:02 PM

libbysmom, that is truly heartbreaking.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 11:26 PM

The eulogizing of this man, the distorted rape of history, the illusions, pretentions, falsehoods...an 'invented reality' I truly cannot fathom, and I spend too much time trying to.

BBC, European media, Canadian,(even some American) French Government, many millions of Europeans, Arabs, Muslims, by the hundreds of millions, a mountainous tidal wave of delusion, hatred, and the most frightful, contradictory vision of the 'world to come' (on whatever plane you wish to speak)...

Arafat left nothing standing in death. Everything he created has already perished, either brutally murdered or scared on earth, the hearts of young and old with the desire to kill and die. There are no inventions, no discoveries, not even any buildings (how about one garden of flowers?), there are no contributions to literature, art, philosophy; there is only a wasteland of dead and dying, and hundreds of millions or billions stolen and hidden away.

Arafat's legacy is simply the denial of life, destruction. And the resonance of that legacy, like his life, from beginning to end, is a lie: 'the Jews are responsible and I am innocent'.

Posted by: JTF at November 11, 2004 11:30 PM

It's good Arafat is dead, it would have been better had he died along time ago. Then thousands he killed might be alive today.

Here's a interesting bit of anti-dhimmi.

CBS has issued an apology for interrupting CSI:NY with news of Arafat's death. CBS received a large number of complaints about CSI:NY being interrupted with this unimportant news. CBS planes to rebroadcast CSI:NY Friday.

Posted by: Roxane at November 11, 2004 11:37 PM

Good on ya' Howard! Now there's a man with cajones. I was so proud to hear his words on the news, and so relieved he didn't mouth some pithy PeeCee BS. Or act as atrociously as that Chirac idiot.

Ali Kazak, the Pal rep in Oz here, in typical Muslim whinging mode, says it "reflects badly on Australia", and that Arafat was a "kind leader". Pardon me while I puke.

I am expecting to hear from the usual suspects soon about how Howard's words will make us more of a terrorist target. Yes, we're supposed to kiss Arab arse, that'll make us immune. Or so say those fairies at the bottom of the garden.

Posted by: feralee at November 11, 2004 11:39 PM

Jeff Jacoby is RIGHT ON!

The mass media for the most part has only played up one side of Arafat, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and elder statesman wannabee. The electronic media for the most part made no mention of his speeches in Arabic calling for the slaughter of Jews. He was also a cold calculating killer.

With the death of Arafat peace took a step forward. To hell with this myth of a leader and myth of a peacemaker and his mythical nation and mythical god. To hell with all of his myths.

Nossy

Posted by: Nostrodamus at November 11, 2004 11:43 PM

TerrorFat was one of the most deceptive Islamists that ever lived, next to Michael Moore.

Posted by: Report at November 11, 2004 11:47 PM

The U.N. flag is lowered for Arafat.
Vomit.
The arabs, with their islamic allies run that loony joint, with the eurodhimmis trying not to offend them.

Oh yea, totally pissed with CNN - over the volume of coverage. Stop building that loser up cnn; how f.ing desperate you must be for copy. His death deserves note, as would that of Papa Doc or some other pos.

And back to the U.N., goodbye Koffi, so long to big ego job in N.Y. Having won favour from your arab/islamic friends, your retirement account must be bulging.

vomit.

Posted by: dby at November 12, 2004 12:19 AM

Arafat was a terrorist, I hope his alter-ego now Ben Laden don´t last such us him, greetings

Posted by: Franze at November 12, 2004 3:39 AM

From Evil_Jihad “Sorry if I said things to harsh, because what they did really MAKE ME PUKE and feel like I want to NUKE them all at once”.
This is precisely what I talked about on the Caliphate thread, you people want us all dead, how can we live in peace if we don’t get the chance. Who ever you are…. You are the evil one , by wanting millions of innocents dead.
Australian PM John Howard stated "History will judge him harshly for not having seized the opportunity in 2000 to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then Israeli PM Ehud Barak”.
John Howard himself needs to get history lessons. So says a man who rules over people who themselves have snatched all the land from the Abos. He is just lucky the Abos don’t know about Jihad…, he should shut up! The truth is that the land for peace deal was never a good one for the Pals. It had lots of settlements that the Israelis wanted to remain…together with the right to protect them. There would never have been any peace with that…but you all *conveniently* forget that. Arafat showed real courage to ignore a deal that was no good for his people despite the political pressure.
In truth, Israel has a problem now. They very cleverly side step negotiations with Arafat as say they said he was a terrorist….but now Allah (swt) willing they will have to really negotiate (with Bush & Blair poking a stick up their arse to keep up the pressure).
I’ll bet they would like to have Arafat back soon!

Posted by: Naseem at November 12, 2004 7:58 AM

Here's a joke (warning our American friends may not get this one, unless they're into UK football/soccer):

Two muslims Ali and Ahmed, were stood at the Bus Stop discussing current affairs....

"I heard Yasser Arafat wanted to wear Paul Gascoigne's football kit at his burial." Said Ali.

"Oh. And what possibly makes you think he'd wear mthe football kit of an infidel??" Asked Ahmed a little angry, as well as puzzled.

Ali answered confidently:"Well he wanted to be buried in the Gazza strip."

Posted by: Rikki at November 12, 2004 8:05 AM

The arabs in ramallah are so incompetent that they can't even transport the coffin from the Helicopter to the compound. The crowds were uncontrollable and it looks like total anarchy there.

Makes you think what would happen if they got their own state. Total anarchy.

Posted by: callistos at November 12, 2004 8:06 AM

Muhammad left his followers these words to live by:

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels [all non-Muslims] are a people devoid of understanding.” Qur’an 47:4 “Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.” Qur’an 4:102 “For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment.” Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.” Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’” Qur’an 8:58 “The unbelieving infidels should not think that they can bypass Islam; surely they cannot escape.” Ishaq:601 “The best men launch spears as if they were swords. They peer forward unweariedly. They devote their lives to their Prophet. ... (T)hey purify themselves with the blood of the infidels. They consider that an act of piety.”

So who wants who dead? Expose the truth about islam before its too late.

Posted by: callistos at November 12, 2004 8:08 AM

Y'all need to understand how rural folk in America's south and southwest use "Bless your heart" or "Bless your soul" to understand what GW Bush meant. Jacoby obviously doesn't. Otherwise, it was a good column.

Those phrases either mean someone has been very bad or very good, and I don't think GWB meant the former considering his support of Israel.

"God bless his soul, that boy is headed straight for the fiery pit..." would be in line with what GWB wanted to say, but couldn't.

Posted by: TennSteve at November 12, 2004 9:20 AM

Of COURSE the palestinians loved their bastard arafat. He was the epitome of what they LOVE in their satanic leader, mohammad.

mohammad: pedophile
arafat: pedophile

mohammad: homosexual
arafat: homosexual

mohammad: murderer
arafat: murderer

mohammad: thief
arafat: thief

mohammad: master liar
arafat: master liar

mohammad: scoundrel
arafat: scoundrel

mohammad: pervert
arafat: pervert

mohammad: died with brain disorder
arafat: died with brain disorder

mohammad: all-around ugly bastard
arafat: all-around ugly bastard

Posted by: yahudimrevenge at November 12, 2004 9:35 AM

"yahudimrevenge" with the comparatives underscores the fact that Arafat was the quintessential representative and meaning of Islam.

Posted by: George Mason at November 12, 2004 9:40 AM

thanks for stating that Tennsteve.

By the way I am glad to hear that Clinton will not be at arafats funeral. If any american was i thought it would be him.

Posted by: bart at November 12, 2004 10:14 AM

To Naseem
I am an Australian Aborigine,so tell me,what do you know about Australian history?
Also I might add my daughter was gang raped by 14 of these lowlife pigs in Sydney(Bankstown)2000.
No deal with that scum is ever any good is it?
No, cant do that, too many Israelis to kill yet.
Where has all the money gone Naseem?
Where is all the infra-structure Naseem?
With all the wealth in aid recieved you would think they'd have something to show for it Naseem?
Where is it all Naseem?
Don't know mate?
Why don't you check his Swiss bank accounts Naseem?
Too scared to look mate?
Well, well ,well what have we here?
Gee he's worth a bit ah Naseem?
If you want to see Allah so much,well,do us all a favour and suicide but don't forget the rest of you're Islamic pig brothers and sisters!!!!!
You will get respect when you earn it and not at the end of a gun barrel.
Have a nice day Naseem

Posted by: D.T. at November 12, 2004 10:19 AM

Mr. D.T.

I am genuinely sorry to hear about your daughter. I certainly hope that all the bastards were caught and are now rotting in Jail. I have NO sympathy for anyone attacking a defenceless woman.

Please don't misunderstand me like most of the postees here. Jihad under all circumstances is pathetic. Muslims leaders have been corrupt themselves and used it as an excuse, they have been pathetic & looked after number 1 rather than the people. Good muslim leaders have bee far and few in-between.

And yes, I certainly agree.... that his bank account money must be made available to the Pal people....no issue there...none.

As for the infrastructure, Israel has blown it all. They were very happy with Arafat.. they could do what they want, when they want and say that they did this in the interest of security.

Well that's not good enough...Arafat was no saint..I know that...but I also know that he got pushed into corners and he kicked out.

Is any deal good enough ...ofcourse, but given the recent history it has to be one that will work. And if you include Israeli settlements in that, then it WON'T work...that's not rasicm ...that's just fact.

2 states, based on *fairness*, that's all I'm asking and I'll be the 1st one to say..."Pal authority...shoot Hamas or whoever who doesn't agree" to move forward.

Once again, I wish your daughter the best for the future.....

Posted by: Naseem at November 12, 2004 10:42 AM

Naseem:

You're the one sorely in need of a history lesson.

President Clinton’s Mideast point man Dennis Ross, spent years negotiating with Arafat, and has the maps to establish exactly what the Israelis actually offered them, in contrast to what Arafat (and his news media) said that the Israelis offered. When then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, pushed by President Clinton, offered Palestinians a real state with 96 percent of the West Bank, Arafat responded not with a counter-offer, but with war – a second Intifada which killed thousands.

As for Arafart himself -- he was born in Egypt, even the CBC is finally cottoning on to this, the son of an Egyptian textile merchant who spent most of his life persuing a claim in court on some land in Egypt that he says had been in the family for 150 years. His Egyptian accent was, apparently so pronounced that a biographer noted that upon first meeting him in 1967, 'West Bankers did not like his Egyptian accent and ways and found them alien,' and to the very end Arafat employed an aide to translate his Egyptian dialect into Palestinian Arabic for conversing with his West Bank and Gaza subjects.

His connection to Jerusalem came at the age of five, when his mother died and his father sent him to live there for a few years with relatives, but he later returned to Egypt via Gaza.

The reason for the false claims of being born in Jerusalem are obvious. What is unknown is how many other claimants to Palestinian origins and refugee status are bogus, because nobody has the specific demographics of the region up until the Brits took over. What is certain is that Jerusalem, Safed and two other cities within what is now Israel were all predominantly inhabited by Jews, not Muslims, and were for centuries before immigration from Europe commenced in the late 1800s. As well, in the 1950s UNRWA used a rather unique standard for determing who was a Palestinian, counting some people with as few as two years' residence prior to 1948.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 12, 2004 11:25 AM

Naseem:

2 states, based on *fairness*, that's all I'm asking

Are you aware that in every survey that's ever been done of the Palestinians, the majority of them reject the "two state solution"?

For that matter, do you even understand what the PLO--the Palestine Liberation Organization--was created to "liberate"? Contrary to the fairy tales you've been told, it had nothing to do with regaining the territories Israel captured in 1967.

The fact that the PLO was created in 1964--three years prior to that war--should make that fact pretty obvious.

...and I'll be the 1st one to say..."Pal authority...shoot Hamas or whoever who doesn't agree" to move forward

Nice in theory, but in reality, it's going to be Hamas doing the shooting, not the other way around.

Posted by: lobo91 at November 12, 2004 11:57 AM

Hey, what's up nazi-eem ? Your kind muslim husband give you a beating or something. ? What happened to the nazi-eem "moderate voice" of "let's all understand one another" ? I guess for a wanna-be arab the death of the world's most famous arab butcher was too much for you. Is it just me or since arabfat's death doesn't the air seem a little cleaner, the sun a little brighter, the sky a little bluer ? Sorry you're upset by the death of a murdering, paedophille who stole from his own people and died of Aids, nazi-eem, but I guess in the moslem world arabfat is the best you can hope for.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at November 12, 2004 12:19 PM

Naseem. You said,

"Jihad under ALL circumstances is PATHETIC"

By that statement alone, you are no longer a muslim.

Muhammad called “bad Muslims” hypocrites or apostates. From the definition of Jihad provided to us by al-Bukhari, we learn: “Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty, or does not fervently fulfill this obligation, dies as a hypocrite.” (Book of Jihad)

The next Hadith (Ishaq:394) clearly shows that the difference between “bad” (peace loving) Muslims and “good” (loyal) Muslims: “Allah said, ‘I let them get the better of you to test you. So fear Me and obey Me. If you had believed in what My Prophet brought from Me you would not have received a shock from the Meccan army. But We cause days like this so that Allah may know those who believe and may choose martyrs from among you. Allah must distinguish between believers and hypocrites so that He can honor the faithful with martyrdom.... Did you think that you would enter Paradise and receive My reward before I tested you so that I might know who is loyal? You used to wish for martyrdom before you met the enemy. You wished for death before you met it. Now that you have seen with your own eyes the death of swords…will you go back on your religion, Allah’s Book, and His Prophet as disbelievers, abandoning the fight with your enemy?’” Speaking of peaceful Muslims, the Qur’an says, “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat [religious tax]. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’” (004.077) The Qur’an ordains Muslims to fight, whether they like it or not. War is compulsory. And the enemy is all non-Muslims. Islam is unambiguous: good Muslims kill.

Good Muslims are loyal to the order to fight and kill all non-Muslims: “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’” (Muslim:C9B1N33)

Islam’s penalty for being a peace-loving Muslim is: “Truly, if the Hypocrites, those in whose hearts is a disease, those who stir up sedition, the agitators in the City, do not desist, We shall urge you (O Muhammad) to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbor for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering. (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived before. No change wilt thou find in the practice of Allah.” (Qur’an 033.060) Muhammad also orders: “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Bukhari V4B52N260)

Posted by: callistos at November 12, 2004 12:24 PM

Naseem said:

"2 states, based on *fairness*, that's all I'm asking..."

I am not Jewish...but...let's take ALL of the Islamic land around the world, divide it in half, and give half to Israel, pretty fair...50/50...what part of that do you not understand?

Posted by: Report at November 12, 2004 1:18 PM

Report:

Apparently, there's very little that Ad Naseum understands.

Out of one side of his mouth, Arafat spoke about a two-state solution. Given the failure to revoke section 15 of the PLO Charter despite the promise given at Oslo, I'd have to guess the two states Arafat had in mind would be called Palestine East and Palestine West.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 12, 2004 2:51 PM

Islam is not evil. Some of our american friends should realise this. Actually, even if its a bit iffy, it has a lot of adherents who arent iffy. The bible had some pretty weird statements in it as well as concerns killing people...

Also, the PLO didnt invent modern terrorism, the israelis did with the bombing of (damn cant remember the name of the hotel).. but the hotel they bombed in war against British. They created terrorism. They did it well, but they did it.

Dont get me wrong I am fully Pro-Bush, pro Iraq war and believe Islamic terrorsits are the biggest threats to world peace but.... demonise the good guys because they happen to share a different religion and everyone loses.

Posted by: jonnyuk at November 12, 2004 8:06 PM

Jonnyuk:

Islam is not evil. Some of our american friends should realise this. Actually, even if its a bit iffy, it has a lot of adherents who arent iffy.

As soon as you come up with a foolproof way to tell the "iffy" Muslims from the "not iffy" ones, let us know.

Until then, they're all suspect. It's the only sane policy in this day and age, when a single person can emplace a weapon that can destroy a major city.

Posted by: lobo91 at November 12, 2004 8:19 PM

Bollocks. When I was drunk I always used to say the same thing about the IRA and the Irish. That was crap. Most Irsih people dont think blowing up english people (50% of whom are bog trotters anyway) is a good idea. I should point out that the US (who I have no problem with) financed the IRA, and kept their runaways unextradited from justice. BTW not a single IRA suspect was EVER exridited from the US. Should you be interested come to england, go to Eire, 98% of people dont believe in blowing people up. Thinking the same about rag heads is just as silly.

Anyway you yanks are laughing, we let the real nutty bastards in over here. A guy who preacdhes 11/9 was great, is allowed to preach every week to thousands in London. God knows why. We dont want them either.

I.e. I am not a dove about terrorism just think you need to know who is your enemy and who isnt.

Posted by: jonnyuk at November 12, 2004 8:45 PM

Jonnyuk said,

"Islam is not evil"

Unfortunately, I don't think you know islam. Islam is unlike any other religions you have out there. Its a complete doctrine to turn the entire WORLD to islam where all other religions, political system, beliefs are not tolerated.
Anyone with a different view/opinion is immediately executed.

Which part of this phrase in the Qur'an you don't understand? Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”

True, not all muslims are evil. Some of them are the nicest people I know. But the doctrine of islam is hateful, violent, racist and satanic. Please go read the Qur'an and the Hadith's before you make judgement.

Posted by: callistos at November 12, 2004 9:07 PM

Naseem
Could you please inform us about the history of the Palestinian people?
Are you really that tiny 100lb boxer from England? Fly weight division?
http://www.nazworld.f9.co.uk/index2.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28222

Posted by: Bar at November 13, 2004 1:06 AM

jonnyuk, maybe you mean to say 'not all Muslims are evil', which I would agree with. If they are good people, it is because they are good people. Not because of Islam, but in spite of it. But Islam ... is definitely evil. The belief system, the "religion" is all, pure, unadulterated evil because its founder and his purpose and agenda for creating this "religion" were nothing but evil and disgustingly self-serving. Looking at his biography I would summarize him as Hitler, Stalin, Koresh and Manson all rolled into one.

From what I've gathered many Muslims are fed a "G-rated", filtered, sanitized version of what their "Prophet" got up to, with the bloodshed, theft, deceipt and self-serving evil and sexual depravity either edited out or excused in some way. It astounds me when I hear Muslims say he was merciful and kind and somebody to emulate and look up to. I've been in online dicussions with Muslims who've gone ballistic when I said what he got up to - the slaughter, the sexual depravity, the theft, etc. "Stop slandering our Prophet!" they'd demand. But I was only relating his deeds, which is the truth. They are kept in the dark as to his true nature, his purpose, his lies, his deceit. I pity most Muslims. Their country and spiritual leaders feed them lies and tell them to blame everyone else for their plight. I don't hate them, but I certainly loathe and abhor their belief system - the unadulterated truthful version of it.

Posted by: feralee at November 13, 2004 1:42 AM

JonnyUK,
I was once like you, I liked to believe the best in people, but just like Lobo says, the only way to be certain we are focused on the ones entering the west with malevolant purposes, is to focus on muslims as a whole.

That is where the terrorist threat to our civilization is coming from.

Remember we didn't ask for this, for our national heritage to be handed over to a massive horde of hostile foreigners, and we certainly didn't ask for our country to become some kind of over-crowded refugee camp ( and the thanks we get for it...zilch.... they hate us more, and want to conquer our lands with their ideology).

Make no mistake, there are most likely a great many muslims with hearts of gold, but at the end of the day they are still muslims, and will choose the allegiance they fear they must choose in order to keep their God happy, therefore even the "nice" muslims could one day become a threat if ever it did get to the point where we were forced to fight to regain our country back (BTW- I'm british too).

Posted by: Rikki at November 13, 2004 5:55 AM

Naseem: Much as I genuinely appreciate the irenicism of many of your posts, I can only say this re your comment on Mr. Howard, and about Autralia being hijacked from the Aborigines.

If we were to right every such wrong on the planet, we'd have to shoehorn a billion Han Chinese into the semiarid valley of the Wei River; everyone who identifies with Arab culture will have to move back to the peninsula, leaving North Africa to the Berbers, Egypt to the Copts, and the Fertile Crescent to the local "Abos"--the Syriac Christians and, yes, the JOOOZ. All of us who speak Indo-European will have to move back to central Europe, leaving everything west of the Elbe and Bohmerwald to the Basques and everything south of the Hindu Kush--possibly even the Aral Steppe--to the Dravidians. The Thai will have to move back to the area between Dien Bein Phu in Viet Nam and Nanning in China. Even the poor Navajo and Apache people will have to vacate the Four Corners states for the Zuni and a few others, and head back to the Yukon (to say nothing of all us White, Black, Yellow, and MIdeastern Americans). It might even turn out, now that he has revealed himself, that our friend DT belongs to a tribe that will have to relocate to at least New Guinea, if not Timor or Borneo, for the sake of some other Australian Aboriginal tribe that lost its hunting grounds some 40K years ago. There isn't a deisrable piece of ground on the planet that hasn't changed hands a few times during its history.

I'm not pissing and moaning about the European and Mideastern countries that kicked out my ancestors. If the USA, and a few other settler states, can give passport-holding, property-rights, and voting-rights citizenships to many more times the number of Falastin Arabs, their children, grandchildren, etc. than any seven Arab-majority countries (excluding Jordan) put together, something's really, really wrong with the Arab countries, and there's no two ways about it. India and Pakistan absorbed a couple millions of refugees apiece after 1947; and they didn't have any petrodollars to ease the process. Also, don't forget the 130,000+ Iraqi Jews, whose ancestors had lived by the Rivers of Babylon since more than a millennium before Muhammad's birth, who lost everything and are now no-questions-asked Israelis; and the tens fo thousands of Yemenite Jews, whose ancestors had lived in southern Arabia since the days of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, who likewise started over around the same time.

I can't say that I mourn much over Arafat. If it's true about how even his Arabic was Egyptian and his family was fighting for a 150-year-old title deed in Misr, then he was a con man of the first order, in addition to being a few other unsavory things already mentioned. John Donne notwithstanding, it's hard to see how such a man's death diminishes any of the rest of us.

Posted by: Kepha1 at November 13, 2004 7:11 AM