Like my Grandmother always said, "The Devil makes work for idle hands."

Her grandchildren aren't muslims.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at November 26, 2004 8:39 AM

Tragic. That western women should casually throw away the gift of freedom judeo-christian society has granted them; to never have known the true worth of this priceless gift of freedom is the only reason moronic women would throw it all away for 'cute eyes' and 'cute smiles' from moslem men, i guess. Somehow, am finding it pretty hard to sympathise with DForis' plight. Sounds mean, but seems like many western women are laerning the hard way the true nature of islam. Like margaret Hasan, she asked for it, she got it. Caveat Emptor...

Posted by: voletti at November 26, 2004 9:11 AM

This "big beautiful man." Those "big brown eyes." The ad he has her write -- what a transparent ploy -- so that he may marry a German girl -- any German girl -- so as to be able to stay in the country. Her offer to collaborate in the deceit by marrying him. His slow descent into failure and inanition. His exploitation and manipulation of her. Her finding that "Islam is very beautiful if you practice it normally." (i.e. if you do not let any of the tenets of Islam actually affect you, and simply stick to the five canonical prayers, observance of Ramadan, "charity" but only to fellow Muslims, and only for the "sake of Allah"; dreaming of going on the hajj or going on it. Yes, as long as you stick to that, and only that, it can be, not "very beautiful," but not murderously hostile to Infidels, not prompting mistreatment of women, not encouraging a view of the world that fatalistically waits for things to drop into one's lap, not inhibiting scientific inquiry and most kinds of artistic expression, which -- of course -- it is. And the idea that one can be so delightfully busy with other suppressed women, lending sugar and spices and flour, and that this compensates for a nightmare mental state, is fantastic. She was a fool; but her story is not the most telling.

The most telling aspect of this fable for our times is what made this "big beautiful man" turn to Islam with renewed fervor were his own failures and setbacks-- his failure to be admitted to university, his series of dead-end jobs, his broken arm, and so on. And these are the things that can happen, that do happen, to anyone. But Infidels do not blame Muslims; they blame a thousand things -- fate, luck, Amerika, The System, their parents, their children, their cholesterol level, their serotonin level, their SAT scores, their LSAT scores, their GMAT scores, their grandparents, the tax code, the used car salesman, the aluminum-siding salesman, the big company that merged with their small company and downsized, the small company that merged with their big company and downsized, cheap labor in Mexico, cheap labor in China, cheap computer engineers in Bangalore, the Zoning Board, the gods of the copybook headings.

But Believers -- ah, Believers, from Mike Hawash to Mohammad Atta to this "big brown eyed" Seyam -- they know who to blame when failures and setbacks come. The Infidel, the Infidel.

There are no Kiev-like protests in the Arab and Muslim world. No Saudi crowds have ever gathered to protest the ongoing theft of trillians of dollars by one family, the Al-Saud. No crowds ever gathered to protest the corruption of Mubarak, and demanded simple justice. When crowds gather in the MIddle East, they gather to denounce the Infidels, to excitingly pledge war against them -- Cairo in May, 1967, where millions smelled blood; Gaza every other day; Damascus at times. Occasionally, when there is a protest, it is of people who riot against their rulers not for being unjust, but for being insufficiently Muslim, for everything is reduced to Muslim terms. The F.I.S. in Algeria, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Syria, do not riot in the streets. They kill tourists in Luxor, Copts whenever the spirit moves, 83 Alawite (not quite full Muslims) military cadets in Aleppo; they kill Infidels, including Arabic-speaking Christians from Lebanon, in Saudi Arabia.

No, there is no injustice in the world that can possibly be caused by Believers -- to a Believer. All injustice comes from, must be blamed on, can be ascribed to, the Infidel. And that is the way it always will be. And if, within the world of Believers, someone is finally seen as monstrously unjust -- then of course we relabel him, and call him an Infidel, and the prism through which the universe is viewed still remains as it always has, for 1400 years.

Posted by: Hugh at November 26, 2004 9:38 AM

The article states:

"He (Seyam) was reduced to taking menial jobs: working the grill in a steakhouse, moving furniture, running a small courier service."

Reduced? I was born and raised in the USA. I graduated from college with a degree in mathematics. I also worked my way through college at "menial" tasks such as dishwashing, cook, toilet cleaner and floor sweeper.

After college, I worked for years in the banking industry.

At no time in my life did I feel "reduced" by the jobs that I have had. I never felt that my education or upbringing put me on a superior level to those around me. I always knew that steady approach coupled with a patient outlook would bring me to the level that I desired. I am still in the process of this. It is a lifelong process.

Now, back to Seyam. What is his problem? As an immigrant, he should know all of these things that I have just described.

Apparently not. His is a feeling of absolute superiority which demands that others do the "menial" work while he does the "real" work.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at November 26, 2004 9:50 AM

Hugh.... you certainly have a gift... the words just flow... keep up the good work.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at November 26, 2004 9:55 AM

P.S.

I have no empathy or sympathy.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at November 26, 2004 9:55 AM

. "I don't know what was going on in the mosque, because women are not admitted," Glueck says.

SO HOW DID SHE KNOW WHAT THE HELL THIS WAS ABOUT?? ARE GERMAN THAT STUPID??

I didn't know at the time, and he was living in this mujahedeen village called Bocinja," a former Serb town in central Bosnia that had become a Muslim stronghold

SO SHE WAS A BIG PART OF THE KILLING OF MANY PEOPEL??

HOW DOES SHE FELL ABOUT THAT??

AND I DON'T BELIVE A WORD THIS WOMAN SAYS SHE IS A HUGE PART OF THESE MONSTERS...

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destory ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at November 26, 2004 11:06 AM

"REDUCED TO"
It's amazing isn't it everyone else can make a success of their lives by grasping the culture of the country they live in or immigrate to.
These twats can't make anything of their lives in their own miserable islamic countries so they move to non moslem countries, when that doesn't work they claim we have been "reduced to this".
same in the UK.
moslems have the lowest educational achievement rates, so what does the establishment tell us, "we have failed the moslems, let them down"
How come the sikhs,hindus,buddhists, jews etc were not let down ?
the truth is their religion has reduced them.
But we can't say that can we ?
I have relations in the USA, who went from poor villages in India, they have thrived and prospered there, they live the "American dream".
We have thrived in the UK.
THE TRUTH SHOULD BE TOLD.
ISLAM HAS REDUCED THEM TO WHAT THEY ARE, A UMMAH OF IGNORANT LOSERS

Posted by: apostate_islam at November 26, 2004 11:20 AM

Hugh:
"The most telling aspect of this fable for our times is what made this "big beautiful man" turn to Islam with renewed fervor were his own failures and setbacks-- his failure to be admitted to university, his series of dead-end jobs, his broken arm, and so on. And these are the things that can happen, that do happen, to anyone"

There's another component in the story that is worth attention. A dying mother.

" During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, his mother dying of cancer, Seyam turned for solace to the Koran and began attending a local mosque. "

If I remember right, I read somewhere that Theo van Goghs murderer turned to Islam for consolation a couple of years ago when his mother died of cancer. Does anyone know of more examples like this? Mommy's boys getting hurt when Mommy dies and heading for the local mosque to find comfort? Maybe the sons of Muslim mothers who get severely sick or die should automatically be put under special surveillance?

As for the woman, she is not just fool, she is a complete, total idiot, sorry to say that. Already abandoned once, before that made to give up her own life, forced to stick her head into a burqa, her husband making kiddies with another "wife", and some obscure jihad business going on that she's not told about - and after all that, she follows him to Saudi Arabia!!! No comments. Well ok, she finally got out of it... so perhaps she had preserved a trace of sanity. Some don't even have that much.

Posted by: Scandie at November 26, 2004 11:31 AM

This "love" story has been repeated many times in the more silly countries of the West (Canada and all of Europe). There's so much resonance between the feminist and islamist death wish, it could be a matter of considerable study. This particular and rather large segment (mostly located in cities) in western society has been quite demonstrative in seeking out the alien and villifying their own kind.

"World championship immigrant loving" best describes how this type has collaborated in subverting our culture and civilization.

Posted by: newtopia at November 26, 2004 11:32 AM

It is humanly understandable that, 30 or 20 years ago, someone who fell in love -- or thought she fell in love -- with a nice man from Pakistan, or Iran, or even Iraq -- and not knowing much about Islam except that it was a "religion," might well marry. Outcomes differ. Some marry men who actually have little sympathy with Islam, and it is the men who move away. Some marry men who reveal the full extent not only of the tenets of Islam -- see the harrowing accounts of women in Ibn Warraq's collection "Leaving Islam," -- but of their putting into practice the misogyny that is part of Islam (despite the best efforts even of some women Muslims to deny this, to ascribe it all to "cultural factors" -- in the Shirin Ebadi style we are all familiar with). Some discover that they were married only for the Green Card, and live with that revelation -- or don't. And some experience the full horror of the full Islam -- as their husbands, not finding the status or money that they expected in the West, blame the Infidels, find solace in the mosque, grow their beards, and plot their revenge on Infidels everywhere.

There are, even reading frequently at this website, some highly intelligent, perfectly aware women who 20-25 years ago married Muslims and have subsequently seen the light about Islam. Their children, in most cases, remain Muslim -- brainwashed to the core.

If a few of those were to publish their collective testimonies, by way of warning others who might repeat the folly, it would be useful. It would prevent further heartache and anguish on the part of innocent Infidels.

Parents worry, with reason, about their children. But whatever awfulnesses are thrown up by the idiotic society in which we swim, the Western world where even the universities, or perhaps especially the universities, are greenhouses of stupidity, it is as nothing compared to the primitive modes of thought and being in Islamic societies. Just look at those faces -- stare at them -- of the crowds in Gaza, Ramallah, or the gleeful mobs dancing around a burned-out Humvee, dead American soldiers still inside, in Baghdad or Fallujah or Mosul. Look at the crowds that chant in Pakistan. Look at what passes for intellectual discussion among "Arab intellectuals" on Al-Jazeera. Clownish beyond belief.

Then imagine what it might be like to live, as an intelligent Muslim who cannot get out of the belief-system, yet lives in the West. And you raise children in that West. And you keep telling yourself that Islam is wonderful, despite all the evidence. Fear of others, filial piety, keep you from doing what Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, and hundreds of thousands of other ex-Muslims have done. You just can't do it. What about your children? Will you lie to them about what is in Qur'an and hadith and sira? Will you prevent them from really studying -- like some German preventing his children from learning about the Nazi era -- what the history of Jihad-conquest has been? Will you keep alive certain romanticized fantasies, about the wonders of Andalucia, and how everyone supposedly got along so swimmingly? Will you allow your children to think, or will everyone in the family lie to each other, and learn to lie, to smile and to lie, to Infidel friends -- in school and college and beyond. For some of those friends, eventually, will begin to find out things for themselves, and they may rethink their relations to you, no matter how charming and plausible you may be.

And what about art and science and free enquiry? Will these be available to you? What if your child begins to find out that in Islam sculpture, painting, music, real science are all essentially forbidden, and are practiced by those who are, from a Muslim point of view, bad Muslims? How long can one tolerate a divided existence, based on falsehood? Can't Muslims who are born in the West also begin to read Qur'an and hadith and sira, and be appalled by what they find? Or perhaps -- not appalled at all, which from the viewpoint of Infidels is even more appalling.

And if, in the end, to protect themselves, Infidels must make life difficult for the practice of Islam, must limit Muslim numbers, must monitor the mosques and all Muslim meeting places, must work against Da'wa in the prisons, must work against those Ramadan Outreach performances in the schools -- can you blame them? Is it wrong for Infidels to wish to defend themselves? And secretly, don't some of you want them to succeed? Wouldn't you want, in Muslim countries, an end not only to the corruption and lies, but to the mullahs and imams and all the rest whose handiwork we can see, today, in the Islamic Republic of Iran? What intelligent person, capable of real thought, able to stand back from Islam, can possibly want it to go on like this?

But here are your children in the West. If they are to get along in that Western world, they will have to keep denying what Islam is all about. They will have to pretend that there is some way to "reform" Islam. They will have to practice taqiyya and lies with all their Infidel friends. They will have to deny, or be in denial. It will take its mental toll. What kind of science, other than the purely technical -- computer engineering and suchlike -- can be practiced successfully by a Believer? The nature of recombinant DNA or subatomic particles? Is that consonant with the Qur'an? Does not the Qur'an contain all we know, and all we need to know.

And if you, or your children, live in the West, but remain outside, hostile to that West, preferring the Shari'a to the American Constitution, waiting until the moment when Muslim numbers have risen sufficiently to make the kind of demands even now being made in Europe, what kind of life is that? Living in America, and hating everything about America. It is not good when people arrive in the West purely for economic reasons. But at least many economic immigrants eventually integrate, and learn about the cultures and societies that they live in, and come to share their values, and learn their histories, and owe their loyalties to that country. Despite the internment camps, Japanese-Americans fought for the United States in World War II, and as a group were completely integrated into American society. The same would be impossible with those who fully subscribe to the belief-system of Islam, though they are quick to draw false parallels between their situation and that of Japanese-Americans during World War II. The latter proved completely loyal. The former have proved deeply suspect -- as the armed forces know. And how could it be otherwise, if one's loyalty is owed exclusively to Islam and to fellow Muslims? Would any Muslim spokesman dare to deny that that is where Muslim loyalty must lie? Would any Muslim spokesman cdare to assert that the Bill of Rights, and the Shari'a, are compatible? Or that the Shari'a is compatible with a single one of the rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Which ones? Show us where we have been unfair.

Posted by: Hugh at November 26, 2004 12:24 PM

There were clues years ago that a non muslim woman marrying a muslim man was nothing but trouble....in 1991 Not Without My Daughter came out and I would say that any woman considering marrying a muslim should have watched that movie (based on a true story) more than once if the point did not sink in the first time. Of course women will say "oh that was just a one time thing....my husband to be would never treat me like that" Thinking like that could wind you up in some backwards islamic country buried up to your neck in sand waiting to be stoned to death for any number of things.

Posted by: USAgirl at November 26, 2004 1:40 PM

There are enough suckers for a "handsome browneyed man" - how could you stop any female, be it German, British, Dutch or whatever,- from falling for these losers? Women in the west are ignorant and naive, and most of all confused. There is a cottage industry in some nord african countries where local Gigolos specialize in taking western women for everything they've got. Gullible, stupid and horny, but who dares to tell our "emanzipated" women otherwise?

Posted by: Terminator at November 26, 2004 2:11 PM

Here's a page on the Bocinja, the former Serb town in central Bosnia that became a Mujahedeen stronghold:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177651/posts

Posted by: Mark James at November 26, 2004 3:11 PM

This accords with my 'Taqqiya totty' idea. Arab men are often very good looking when young, eg Tarik Ramadan. This pulls in the female vote. In a cruel reversal of the fairytale where the princess kisses the frog, once married and complacent they turn into Abu Hamza, who is not only an evil terrorist, but also hideous.

A friend of mine was married to a Morrocan guy who treated her like a princess until they got married, then treated her like sh*t. Thankfully they are now divorced.

There was an expression 'flirty fishing', used about Christian fundamentalist sects. They would send out someone who was normal on the surface and good looking to get converts. No moral equivalence here though - wearing nerdy tank tops and singing weedy hymns on guitars are not the same as flying planes into buildings

Posted by: Interestd at November 26, 2004 3:31 PM

And further confirmation that the war a lot of us supported has resulted in taking part of Serbia and turning it into a breeding ground, and likely a european base of operations, for islamic nutters.
Far from draining the swamp, we have created a new one in Kosovo.
What the f where we thinking when we forced the Serbs out of their traditional territories in favour of the muslims, those Serbs, that is, who still lived there after the muslim worked with the nazis to destroy vast swathes of Serb society in Kosovo in WW2.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Posted by: dby at November 26, 2004 4:03 PM

dby said,

"...that the war a lot of us supported has resulted in taking part of Serbia..."

I had a conversation with a coworker of mine during this war. He happened to be from Syria and he also happened to be an ardent supporter of the Serbian cause.

Of course, I was toeing the line (at that time) for my country and was against the Serbians.

I have long since concluded that this coworker of mine was a Christian Syrian and, that he may have indeed been on the correct side.

It just tells you what I knew then: NOTHING.

Posted by: Moe's Foe at November 26, 2004 4:08 PM

Watch the same thing could be happening in the Ukraine' We know nothing and we know that putin is against Islamic Terrorist what of this guy who the Old Clinton crowd backs?? Make's me nervous??

http://www.news24.com/News24/Backpage/Offbeat/0,,2-1343-1347_1626049,00.html
Blondes ain't laughing
Hungary - Blonde jokes are set to be banned in Hungary after blonde women staged an angry protest outside parliament.
The protestors handed in a petition claiming they were being discriminated against in every walk of life by bad taste blonde jokes.
Spokesperson Zsuzsa Kovacs said: "Blondes face discrimination in the job market, in the workplace when they get a job, and even on the streets.
"People are banned from discriminating against Jews, or blacks, so why not grant blondes the same protection."
The petition was handed to the equal opportunities minister Kinga Goncz asking her to investigate whether jokes about blondes fall into the same category as religious discrimination.
The petition was just short of the 100 000 needed to force parliament to debate the matter but Goncz's deputy who spoke to the crowd pledged the government would act to stop any discrimination.
Blondes - real and bleached - protested outside the ministry as the petition was handed in, waving banners with slogans like "We're blonde, not stupid" and "Love us for our minds". - Ananova.com

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victort to Destory ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

Posted by: Catherine at November 26, 2004 4:28 PM

No use putting all the blame on Ms. Glueck. Her being idiot and all. This thing happens because modern european nations do not teach their children properly about their own heritage and culture. The 400 year long struggle for democracy, from the Renaissance period onwards, and the suffering and sacrifices by millions of common yet brave europeans that has made modern democratic europe possible. They are kept ignorant about the true implications of their own history and are specifically not taught to take pride in their own heritage in the interest of being secular and syncretic. Otherwise why wouldn't they ask themselves this simple question. If the Islamic system is so perfect, then why are the muslims leaving their land and coming to Europe? Colonial exploitation doesn't really cut ice. Till 1918, most of the middle east was under Turkish rule. If it was 'exploitation through centuries', then it was exploitation of muslims by muslims and not others. Even so after the WW2 most of Europe was reduced to rubble. The Europeans started from scratch and rebuilt their land within the next 40 years. Why couldn't or would't the Islamic countries show the same endeavour? From fashionable self flagellation the policies of the European governments today have become suicidal. What do they hope to gain by ignoring and eschewing their own history, culture and heritage? A little bit of 'secular and syncretic' applause here and there, and some approval by the left? What good would that be when europe is destroyed by hoards of belligerent and ungrateful muslim migrants? But who am I blaming? The same thing is happening in India. A little tip from Indian History. During the freedom struggle the Indian left (nearly all of them were Hindus) really cosied up to the muslims. They even vociferously supported partion (they argued that Islam comprised a nation and it is not democratic enough that Indian muslims should be made to live with Indian Hindus). But when partition happened, those left LEADERS who were on the wrong side of the border, were the first to run to the safety and security of Hindu India. shamelessly leaving their ignorant followers to fend for themselves.

Posted by: mitra at November 26, 2004 4:40 PM

Moe's Foe - ditto; i obviously knew nothing when i supported the destruction of Serbian Kosovo. Think i've learned a bit since.
Part of the confusion then was that Milosovic had shown himself to be a total dud as a leader and the cause of war in an attempt to maintain Serbian dominance in the former Yugoslavia. Still, i should have supported him in Kosovo; there, and there alone, he was right.

Mitra, thanks for the info on the old Hindu Indian left.

Posted by: dby at November 26, 2004 5:07 PM

And yet they are winning!"Submission", Theo Van Gogh's movie, should be played everywhere in the world, on every TV station and for a month at the time. But even in Holland they took it off the air in order to "not aggravate" the situation!? Again: The Islamists are winning, we are backing off! The price of oil has doubled recently, which means more money for the Arabs who in turn channel the funds into the Jidhad. Where are our supporters? Where do we get the money to start up a Jihad watch news channel? Why is our media not on to it? Too much Arab money or too afraid of knivewielding Islamo faschists?

Posted by: Terminator at November 26, 2004 6:20 PM

"There are enough suckers for a "handsome browneyed man" - how could you stop any female, be it German, British, Dutch or whatever,- from falling for these losers? Women in the west are ignorant and naive, and most of all confused."

As a 55-year-old woman, I am embarrassed by the utterly stupid and naive things middle-aged supposedly "educated" women will do when they're lonely! Without knowing it, they take Christian principles for granted, and can't figure out why the world turns ugly when they cast their own faith and heritage aside for some brown eyes and exotica. I have seen many single women, much more successful professionally than I, who nonetheless cannot tell a toxic loser like this guy from Jesus himself. It's laughable.

Posted by: cassandra at November 26, 2004 6:36 PM

Thanks Terminator,
i had no idea the Dutch were limiting the opportunities to see the Van Gogh film.
That certainly hands power over to the islamists.

Van Gogh has paid the highest price - it is now the responsibility of the rest of us to ensure his film is seen. If we are not prepared to risk upsetting muslims, freedom is lost.

SHAME ON THE DUTCH.

Posted by: dby at November 27, 2004 12:21 AM

Hugh, Just a damned minute. I'm a believer myself--albeit my supernatural revelation is the Old and New Testaments; my God became flesh in Jesus Christ; and I expect no new revelation between the "Amen" at the end of the NT Apocalypse and the day Jesus returns to judge the living and dead (hence I believe Muhammad as much as I believe Joseph Smith--not at all). Yet I freely admit that there were and are wrongs committed by my brethren--after all, the first act of belief we do is admit we're sinners in need of salvation (note present tense verbs--maybe it's why God saved His last Word for the day when Greek was the international language). It isn't having a traditional belief that makes you always blame the other man--it's WHAT you believe.

Re this poor German woman and her jihadi ex, what do we expect will happen when we are all atomized individuals with no true, permanent, abiding divine law to guide us? We stand for nothing, and fall for everything. Ms. Glueck is the end result of the nihilism in Western culture that so many posters here have observed. Actually, she is the end result of a liberalism in which liberty is the great end of man; not a responsible liberty under God.

While we're at it, do we think that for a moment the current provisions agains fraudulent marriage in US immigration law will stand when "marriage" is extended to cover same-sex unions (notoriously short-lived)? Would we be able to rationally say "no" to polygamy in such situations? Or, unions of adult and child or even human and animal?

Posted by: Kepha1 at November 27, 2004 3:57 AM

Hugh, Kepha:

Being myself an agnostic that rejected his Catholic upbringing at an early stage of his reasoning maturity (though I do not bragg about it and stick to the Ten Commandments spirit) I think whatever I have to say in relation to the spiritual vacuum you Kepha call nihilism will complement your own views on this matter. Mine are that the reason why people in our midst like this disoriented woman in Hugh's story are easy prey for the Mohammadinas, lies in something one modern scientist-philosopher defined this way: "Nature abhors vacuum". It also means that Nature tends to fill it up, doesn´t matter what with. But you do not need to believe in something supernatural or mathaphysical to be 'full'. Even a confirmed atheist can be a full, decent, coherent and articulate human being if he simply adheres to the principle: "Don't do to others..." which in fact is what makes the difference between a good and an evil belief-system. If only we could understand and apply this criteria we wouldn't be contemplating the catastrophic mistake been made by the moronic Doris Gluek of the moment. Been such a simple thing, the fact is that many people in our Western societies seem unable to discover the truth in it, a sad reflection of the general disorientation generated by whatever our Western values'system has evolved to be at present. The crude reality is that from our civilized righteous emptiness we are facing a hideous, barabaric but powerful ideology who will eventually devour us, for Nature doesn´t discern between the goodies and the baddies when it comes to alocate success, but between the daring and the meek, the givers and the takers, the strong and the weak. The way I see it, the ¡admirable' Christian precept to offer one´s other cheek when slapped in the face is an abomination because it makes easy prey of us and helps perpetuate the dominance of the unscrupulous. You see, Kepha, after avoiding at all costs to be empty, it is mandatory to be filled with the rigt stuff, the one Mother Nature favours, for it is Her the one who calls the shots when the time of reckoning arrives to decide who of the two or several contestants is going to survive. So keep paraying while you pass the ammunition.

Posted by: Cid Campeador at November 27, 2004 5:48 AM

Hugh, Kepha:

Being myself an agnostic that rejected his Catholic upbringing at an early stage of his reasoning maturity (though I do not bragg about it and stick to the Ten Commandments spirit) I think whatever I have to say in relation to the spiritual vacuum you Kepha call nihilism will complement your own views on this matter. Mine are that the reason why people in our midst like this disoriented woman in Hugh's story are easy prey for the Mohammadinas, lies in something one modern scientist-philosopher defined this way: "Nature abhors vacuum". It also means that Nature tends to fill it up, doesn´t matter what with. But you do not need to believe in something supernatural or mathaphysical to be 'full'. Even a confirmed atheist can be a full, decent, coherent and articulate human being if he simply adheres to the principle: "Don't do to others..." which in fact is what makes the difference between a good and an evil belief-system. If only we could understand and apply this criteria we wouldn't be contemplating the catastrophic mistake been made by the moronic Doris Gluek of the moment. Been such a simple thing, the fact is that many people in our Western societies seem unable to discover the truth in it, a sad reflection of the general disorientation generated by whatever our Western values'system has evolved to be at present. The crude reality is that from our civilized righteous emptiness we are facing a hideous, barabaric but powerful ideology who will eventually devour us, for Nature doesn´t discern between the goodies and the baddies when it comes to alocate success, but between the daring and the meek, the givers and the takers, the strong and the weak. The way I see it, the 'admirable' Christian precept to offer one´s other cheek when slapped in the face is an abomination because it makes easy prey of us and helps perpetuate the dominance of the unscrupulous. You see, Kepha, after avoiding at all costs to be empty, it is mandatory to be filled with the rigt stuff, the one Mother Nature favours, for it is Her the one who calls the shots when the time of reckoning arrives to decide who of the two or several contestants is going to survive. So keep paraying while you pass the ammunition.

Posted by: Cid Campeador at November 27, 2004 5:48 AM

'Even a confirmed atheist can be a full, decent, coherent and articulate human being if he simply adheres to the principle: "Don't do to others..." which in fact is what makes the difference between a good and an evil belief-system' ~Cid

I like that. keithjoy ought to learn from it.

Posted by: Gary at November 27, 2004 10:27 AM

'Even a confirmed atheist can be a full, decent, coherent and articulate human being if he simply adheres to the principle: "Don't do to others..." which in fact is what makes the difference between a good and an evil belief-system' ~Cid

I like that. keithjoy ought to learn from it.

Posted by: Gary at November 27, 2004 10:28 AM

There is a sense of resent in Islamic world that two countries act as bulwark against the free spread of Islam. Israel in the west and India in the east.

India, in spite of all it's dilly dallying and stupid policies, could stand against the free run of Islam.

However, the current policies of the government is only to placate and by the time the people know of 'Extreme Dhimmitude' it would be too late.

Having said that one of the reasons Indian people are not giving a free run to Isalm is it's deep roots in culture, it's values that cannot be taken over that easily.

We all should understand that, if we look at our past, there would always be things to be ashamed of. It does not mean that the past is to be buried. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

Europe should re-discover it's past, it's core values and modify them to today's needs. Should turn less materialistic and become a little more value based.

While blaming the Islam, Europe should not ignore the fact that if women are being lured by 'good looking' Moslems who are kind hearted till marriage, and do some introspection. Why do these women do these atrocious things? Is it because she has no value base to evaluate her action against?

Bring you children modern but do teach them their root, the core value the society has lived by. Make them take pride in what they are. History is very important. The children are to be taught where they belong to. Have you seen many Islamic woman talking of loneliness? The safety net of family is required. The west did have these values but have lost them in the last few decades and is soul less today.

Are we making the same mistake the Muslim world does? blame someone for our problems?

Look inside. There is a change to be made. There is a need to become strong. If it is pride that is not allowing one to accept that all is not well within, it is bound to make one overconfident that we can win. Nothing is wrong in being extra cautious.

Posted by: Seculartalk at November 27, 2004 10:55 PM