Attackers are Jews trying to make islam look bad?

Posted by: callistos at December 6, 2004 8:18 AM

Could this be yet another case of the Saudi Security Forces looking the other way while this plan was being mapped out and executed?

Posted by: DCWatson at December 6, 2004 9:11 AM

I'm glad no Americans were killed. Best wishes for a swift recovery to those Americans injured.

"Stray bunch" - yeah, sure. Guys who "got in with the wrong crowd". "Not Muslims". "Hijackers of the peaceful Islamic faith". Blah, blah, blah. We've heard it all before.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guards looked the other way. I'm sure a lot of them despise the Saudi ruling parasites and view Al-Q as their heroes.

Posted by: feralee at December 6, 2004 9:53 AM

Shamefully, this violence reflects not just a hatred of the West but a clash of visions and a struggle for power amongst Arabs.

The current Saudi kingdom came into being in 1902 when a Saudi leader captured Riyadh. Ten years later, there emerged a Wahhabi armed force known as the Ikhwan (i.e. "Brethren") which in its personal practices and its hostility toward non-Wahhabis represented the most militant dimension of this movement.

One war cry of theirs went: "The winds of Paradise are blowing. Where are you who hanker after Paradise?"

The Ikhwan served the Saudi family well, bringing it one military victory after another. A key turning point came in 1924, when the father of today's Saudi king captured Mecca. This victory brought under Saudi control not just another town but the holiest city of Islam and a cosmopolitan urban area that hosted divergent interpretations of Islam. These changes turned Saudi into a state and brought a desert movement to the cities.

Although the Saudi state deems the Koran as its constitution, i.e. forbids the practice of any religion but Islam on its territory, it employs an intolerant religious police. It also enacts non-Koranic regulations, employs large numbers of non-Muslims, constrains the religious police, and allows women to attend school and work.

Osama bin Laden, is the leading representative of the Ikhwan movement today. His vision (of the removal of foreign workers) has real appeal in Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi family maybe hated but could they be the best of this situation? They need to reform but this will be hard. Already the number of princes has risen from 20,000 to 100,000 with some princes siring up to 70 childrens to ensure continuity.

With a stipend of upto $40K/month and free air travel per prince….they will hardly want reform.

Ultimately, therefore attacks like these will become increasingly common and will likely spread throughout the ME. The "good times" are over, foreign workers need to seriously consider their position in these countries.

Posted by: Naseem at December 6, 2004 9:58 AM

Naseem, That is not bad. Like I've said elsewhere, I do believe you are a voice we need to keep hearing here, regardless of the range of feelings towards you.
And as I am not awake (and not likely to be for another day yet), I shall leave it to everyone else.

Posted by: Gary at December 6, 2004 10:23 AM

I have been inside that consulate many times. It is a very hard target with several layers of security. Like all diplomatic facilities, the outer layers are all provided by the host country (better to have locals shooting their own than to have the Marines mowing down host country mobs). The inner layers are provided by State Dept. paramilitary security forces and finally the Marines. There are numerous physical barriers and interlocks.

From the news reports that I have seen it appears to be a small group of fired up jihadis with about 100 aggregate IQ points. There are many more soft targets in Jeddah that would have been a push over, so to go for the consulate itself is a major clue that these guys were, well, clueless.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at December 6, 2004 11:03 AM

Adding to Naseem's remarks regarding the arbitrary rule of the House of Saud, there is the matter that Saudi Arabia has no written penal code, code of criminal procedure, or code of judicial procedure, allowing police and judges wide discretion in many cases to determine what activities constitute criminal offenses and what sentences such "crimes" deserve. Because there is no constitutional court there is no way for an individual to challenge a sentence without directly or indirectly appealing to the king. The king and his appointed Council of Ministers have near absolute authority to interpret written law, while the government-appointed Council of Senior Religious Scholars has final authority over interpretations of the Shari`a. The Council's interpretations give precedence to the Hanbali school of jurisprudence, especially as explicated by the fourteenth century jurist Ibn Taymiya. The Hanbali school is considered to be the most conservative of Sunni Islam's four schools of jurisprudence.
It would be a good idea to heed Naseem's predictions of the spread of these attacks throughout the ME. Western nations should take it upon themselves to provide for the security of their consulates instead of relying on local police forces that may be infiltrated by terrorists.

Posted by: Mike at December 6, 2004 11:03 AM

In case Spencer hasn't already linked it in, today's FrontPageMag.com carries an article by Stephen Schwartz on the Saudi royal family's contribution to jihadism and parallels between SA and the former Soviet Union. Worth a read.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 6, 2004 11:03 AM

After the first attacks at the compounds foreign workers-- the Sauds offered'amnesty' if the terrorists came back home and denounced their terror. "Come home and say your sorry. After all, it was mostly a bunch of godless heathens you killed -- Infidels."

The Sauds are a bunch of filthy rich, procreating, terror- supporting cockroaches. And I'm sure the Hashemite kingdom agrees wholeheartedly...

Posted by: Kemaste at December 6, 2004 11:29 AM

Offtopic....
Good news, I think, Putin agrees to work with whomever the Ukrainians eventually elect.

Last summer, during a road trip, I stopped at
a gas station about 30 miles east of Barstow and got to talking with the cashier who was from....
I can't remember if it was Russia, Ukraine, or Georgia or what. But he told me that Russia aka Putin basically called all the shots in the once Sovietized states. So....if this turnaround of a faulty election succeeds....and a more popular Ukrainian leader is elected...it will be a good thing.

Posted by: Afrafaste at December 6, 2004 12:06 PM

Attackers are Jews trying to make islam look bad?

Posted by: callistos at December 6, 2004 08:18 AM

No, fool....it's white nationalists posing as jews posing as arabs to make jews look bad.

Posted by: Afrafaste at December 6, 2004 12:08 PM

Didn't really meant to call you fool. Sorry.

Posted by: Afrafaste at December 6, 2004 12:09 PM

An always informative conversation on this site.

S.A. seems caught between a rock and a hard place.

The saudi royals have a little more rope with the high oil prices, more money available to 'bribe'( in the free hospitals, growing incomes, positive sense ) the population and maintain stability, though without progress towards some form of semi democracy, they will only be playing for time.

And, remember, for many years the average saudi income has been dropping, always an encouragement to change governments.

Very difficult to imagine a happy ending to the saudi situation, with a benevolent ( kind of ) royal tyranny that shows little inclination to democratize, and of course sucks up way too much of saudi wealth for the rapidly propagating royals' consumption, facing an opposition from islamic religious zealots with absolutely nothing worthwhile to offer.

Aaaargh.

Posted by: dby at December 6, 2004 2:05 PM

AHH!!
Could this be because ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY]is placeing blame for his son in Iraq??

Go after what he sees as the weak??

Iranian students heckle Khatami
Swiss Politics ^ | 12/6/04 | Parisa Hafezi
Posted on 12/06/2004 9:57:30 AM PST by
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Students, once the backbone of Iran's reformist movement, have barracked and harangued President Mohammad Khatami, accusing him of lacking the courage to deliver promised democratic reforms in the Islamic state.
"Khatami, what happened to your promised freedoms?", "Khatami, shame on you", "Students are wise, they detest Khatami" groups shouted as the moderate cleric attempted to address a group of about 1,500 students at Tehran University on Monday.
The speech, held to mark Iran's annual Students Day, marked a nadir for Khatami's relations with students who were a major force in his stunning electoral victories of 1997 and 2001.
Now nearing the end of his second and final term, which concludes in mid-2005, Khatami has lost the backing of even some of his most ardent supporters, many of whom feel he failed to stand up to hardliners who have blocked his efforts at reform.
Khatami, visibly shaken by the students' anger, defended his record and criticised powerful hardliners who have jailed dissidents, closed newspapers and rejected key reform bills.
"My period is going to be over soon but I do not owe anyone," he said. "Those power-seeking fanatics who ignored the people's demands and resisted reforms, they owe me. The ones who destroyed Iran's image in the world, they owe me."
LAME DUCK
Analysts say Khatami, once seen by the West as a great hope for change in the Islamic Republic, is serving out his final months as a virtual political lame duck.
Islamic conservatives opposed to any watering down of Islamic values and the clerical grip on power are poised to regain the presidency in elections next year after taking control of parliament in a vote in February 2004.
At times applauded and at others booed by the boisterous crowd jammed into a university lecture theatre, Khatami lashed out with uncharacteristic anger when chants forced him to interrupt his speech.
"Just stop it. I will tell them to throw you out," he said. "You are unable to tolerate anything, even words," he said.
Later he said that despite restrictions on free speech in Iran, where over 100 publications have been muzzled in the last four years, the situation was better than in many countries.
"There is no Third World country where the students can talk to their president and criticise the government as you do now," he said. "You are freely chanting slogans against the government."
He said he still believed the path of reform would succeed.
"I really believe in this system and the (1979 Islamic) revolution and I believe this system can be developed from the inside," he said.
But for most present, Khatami's words merely underlined the impotence of a man who they now view as part of a system which is unwilling to accept real change.
"Khatami himself is responsible for the problems created in the country," said Zahra, 19, a student of mechanical engineering. "He did not behave properly."

WOW!!!

Report: Iran Has Tried Arrested Al Qaeda Members
Reuters/ABC News ^ | 12/6/04 | Unknown

Posted on 12/06/2004 9:02:45 AM PST
Dec 6, 2004 — TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's judiciary has tried a number of arrested al Qaeda members and verdicts have been issued, a senior judiciary official was quoted as saying on Monday.
Tehran Justice Department head Abbasali Alizadeh told the semi-official Fars news agency Iran's "high-ranking officials are satisfied with the issued verdicts," but did not elaborate on what the verdicts had been.
News of the trials is likely to anger Washington, which has repeatedly called on Iran to hand over all al Qaeda suspects it is holding. Guilty verdicts sentencing them to long jail terms would make that an even more distant prospect...
[snip]
The most important figure that Western intelligence agencies say may be there is Saif al-Adel, an Egyptian. He is widely believed to have taken charge of al Qaeda operations after Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, was captured in Pakistan.
Saudi sources said last year that Iran had also detained Saad bin Laden, a son of Osama, as well as al Qaeda spokesman Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, who is a Kuwaiti.

LOOKS LIKE WE ARE STILL WINNING!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Sight,Wisdom, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who SUPPORT them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at December 6, 2004 2:16 PM

son's death!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Sight,Wisdom, and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at December 6, 2004 2:18 PM

DBWatson: That may be why four of the Saudi security guards (actually, National Guard) were killed... they were in on it.

Naseem: You raise good points, but your story stopped before the battle of Al-Sabalah, when Ibn Saud killed of most of the Ikhwan, putting some distance between their ferocious faith and the politics of state.

dby: You might be interested in the reforms going on in Saudi Arabia right now. You can follow them at my blog.

Posted by: JFB at December 6, 2004 2:27 PM

Posted by: JFB at December 6, 2004 02:27 PM
Are you John??

http://xrdarabia.org/blog/archives/2004/11/28/do-we-hate-jews-and-christians/#comments
Dr. Khaled Batarfi • kbatarfi@al-madina.com
Some of my Jewish readers have doubts.
They suspect that Arabs and Muslims hate them, blaming them for Israel’s misdeeds and past mistakes such as trying to kill God’s prophets and messengers (peace be upon them). They say that Muslims still remember with bitterness how the Jews in Madinah tried to kill the Prophet (pbuh), broke their pact and betrayed him by siding with his enemies.
A good article from Khalid Batarfi, Editor of the Arabic daily Al-Madina. (Not surprisingly, it’s published in that city and has its largest readership there).
Batarfi aims his pen at those Muslims who “cherry pick” quotes from the Quran to find authority for their intolerant views of Christians and Jews. I’ll help him by noting that there are many Americans who do the inverse: they’ll dig through the Quran, the Hadith, and centuries-old laws to find reasons to hate Muslims and Arabs in general, Saudis in particular.
By John @ 01:36

Comments ::
1. The discrimination, abuse and oppression of non Muslims isn’t just in the Koran, it’s in Saudi laws. Treating Jews and Christians with dignity, giving them equality is literally against the law in the kingdom.
The issue here is not hate, it’s just a statement of fact. If someone pointed out the discrimination inherent in the laws that governed Nazi Germany, would that be an example of Nazi-bashing?
Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and other similar organizations have documented the abuses and deaths that have resulted from the Saudi Laws. Are they ‘cherry picking’?
There is no religious freedom in Saudi Arabia. Islam is the official religion, and all Saudi citizens must by law be Muslims. Saudis adhere to the strict Wahhabi sect of pure Islam. Apostasy is a capital offence under the Sharia Islamic law.
The Muttawa enforce laws prohibiting the public practice of any non-Muslim religion. The many millions of foreigners working in Saudi Arabia are also under Sharia law. Under Saudi law non-Muslims cannot testify in criminal court.
I understand Saudi attitudes – they’re based on traditions that this very traditional society has followed for hundreds of years. I don’t understand why any western-educated, enlightened person would choose to defend this brutal society at the expense of the millions who suffer as a result of it.
comment by mary at exit zero — November:28:2004 @ 11:54

2. Mary, you mistake the purpose of my blog. I am not doing this to defend the Saudis, particularly against the indefensible. Nearly everything you cite is undeniable true.
My purpose is to put those things into context, and try to explain how they came about. My goal differs from yours, however. Rather than just point out things, I also try to suggest how they can be understood so that when we demand changes we know why things are as they are.
Simply pegging rocks doesn’t do much to encourage change. You have to know what can be changed easily, what can be changed with difficulty, and what can probably not be changed within a lifetime.
Please do try to find Mamoun Fandy’s book that I cited in an earlier comment. His book focuses on where the hardliners really are in terms of general attitudes. It also talks about why they think the Saudi gov’t is too “mild” in its approach to matters the hardliners think of as life-and-death issues. That should give you some sort of marker of where things actually do stand. I suggest that you do need to know the political landscape before you start demanding change.
comment by John — November:28:2004 @ 23:58

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless The USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Sight,Wisdom, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at December 6, 2004 3:10 PM

Commentary about the attack, from Reuters.com:

"It shows that despite Saudi claims to the contrary, al Qaeda can still mount operations in the country," said Simon Henderson, a British consultant on Saudi Arabia.

"Worryingly there remain concerns not only about the effectiveness of Saudi security forces but also about their loyalty," Henderson told Reuters in London.

Yup.

Posted by: Border Collie at December 6, 2004 3:50 PM

I will accept that the Saudis bear no malice to the "other" when they allow and encourage non-Muslims and members of Muslim minority sects to practice their respective faiths freely, openly and without harrassment on the Arabian Peninsula and not a minute sooner.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 6, 2004 4:00 PM

Naseem, you said:

"Although the Saudi state deems the Koran as its constitution, i.e. forbids the practice of any religion but Islam on its territory, it employs an intolerant religious police."

Are you claiming that an intolerant religious police is not in the spirit of the Koran? The abrogating commandment "..no other religion on the Arabian Peninsula" seems rather religiously intolerant to me. But perhaps you mean that the police are too arbitrary and don't have enough checks on their power. Well, I'm afraid "check on police powers" is a Western ("evil") idea that is incompatible with a "state that deems the Koran as it's constitution". Which way do you want it? Because don't forget, as Dr. Mahathir Mohamad so wisely noted, it was Jews who "invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others." Face it, Miranda rights and Koran just don't get along.

Plus, any attempt to remove foreign workers means that some Saudis will actually have to study something other than theological bickering. But, as you say, with a stipend like that, who wants to rock the boat?

Posted by: CornHolio at December 6, 2004 6:29 PM

My fondest hope is that the Saud family is skinned alive in chop-chop square by the Moslem Brotherhood when they take over the whole area from Yemen to Syria. What can I do to make that happen? What can I do to ensure the most rabid of those creatures finally triumphs to the point that America and their worthless European allies have to militarily crush the lot of tm so we can take over, drive the Arabs into the desert, and rule the place for the benefit of the civilized world? Much writing here about a fifth column in the West. but look at the 60 per cent of the public sector work-force in saudi Arabia who are foreign, and then at the 90 percent of the private sector workers who are foreign. then ask what will happen if they leave it to the Saudis who produce university graduates, 50 per cent with degrees in religious studies? Let the natives have Saudi Arabia. the sooner the better. How do I help out?

Posted by: sonofwalker at December 6, 2004 9:28 PM

Naseen-

The Saudis are doomed by their own inbreeding, both literally and 'spiritually' (in the dogmatic sense), arrogance and greed. Classic parasites.

The sooner the Infidel world gets other methods of powering its homes, industries and all forms of transportation- with geothermal/solar/wind/tidal/biomass/coal-gasification, and running its cars ands trucks as propane vehicles, hydrogen powered vehicles, hybrid vehicles, gasohol vehicles (see; South American alternative fueled vehicles), the quicker we can look on with indifference as the sons of the desert devour their own in an apocalytpic jihad against one another.

And, whichever gang comes out on top, they can learn other uses for their then irrelevant oil.

Lubricating their leather-bound Koran hinges?

Posted by: profitsbeard at December 6, 2004 11:16 PM

Sonofwalker: While I don't hold a candle for the House of Sa'ud, either, my best case scenario is that the whole Middle East raises its middle finger to the Ikhwan types and praises Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, as the one who paid for our sins by his death on the cross and conquered death three days later--and in Arabic, Hebrew, Syriac, Mehri, Suqutri, Coptic, etc. And let's not forget, while we see with Isaiah a triumvirate of Assyria, Israel, and Egypt, and reconciliation of the children of Shem in Messiah, those children of Madai in Turkey, Kurdistan, Persia, Khorasan, etc. as well.

After all, the most famous Middle Eastern book of them all tells me that God prefers the salvation of my fellow sinful creatures to their destruction. I guess I need to pitch my desires in that direction, too.

Maybe, then, we'll be able to all work together on alternative energy and figure out something for the cradle of civilization (and humanity itself) to do against the day the oil runs dry.

Posted by: Kepha1 at December 7, 2004 3:34 AM

Despite loud Protestations to the contrary, all is NOT well in the Kingdom of Saud! Apart from the fact there are far too many Princes living a life of luxury their Subjects can only dream of, Al Quaeda is very much alive and well...The Natives are restive and impatient for change. Trail on Bin Laden has grown 'cold' but don't be surprised if he pops up in the 'Homeland' near Prophet's old stomping ground near Mecca to announce all out Jihad.

Posted by: Morgane at December 7, 2004 4:54 AM

USA have to leave Saudi Arabia, they´re snakes not people, and please research for not being dependent of petroleum, with this and drug the islamic terrorism and the wahabbism will be very rich and powerful, please I am tired of seeing mosques financied by the saudis, webs that say mistakes about the Catholic Church of traitor muslims that speaks about my country Spain: The Western Bosnia, Saudi Arabia is evil, before, now, and in the future.

Posted by: Franze at December 7, 2004 5:16 AM

Let us remember that the 9/11 Commission discovered a paper trail of money directly from members of the Saudi Arabian Government to at least two of the 9/11 hijackers.( The full extent of the Suadi backing of the 9/11 Terrorist attack was cencored and blacked out by the Bush Admninistration. ) And just recently it was announced that it was a high priortity to stablize and protect this same terrorist mongering government.

This event further demonstrates the sheer insanity of our governments relations with Suadi Arabia. To execute a War On Terror all the while striving to protect terrorist backers is mindless and self defeating. Dito Pakistan.

Nossy

Posted by: Nostrodamus at December 7, 2004 8:55 PM