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It sounds terrible: restricting their civil liberties. Until you read into the story and find that they're talking about registration, profiling, and monitoring of mosques and Islamic organizations. Horrors! Registration may inconvenience some people, but after all, a lot of people were inconvenienced on 9/11; as with all these measures, if one is not doing anything seditious, one is unlikely to have anything to fear. Profiling? Unless you think our law enforcement tax dollars are well spent making sure that the FBI investigates an equal number of Methodist grandmothers and Muslim imams for terrorist ties, it's just common sense. And monitoring mosques? This is something the American Muslim community should welcome, and aid in -- if they really accept and value the free society in which they live. From AP, with thanks to JJP Mackie:
ITHACA, N.Y. -- Nearly half of all Americans believe the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.
Researchers also found that respondents who paid more attention to television news were more likely to fear terrorist attacks and support limiting the rights of Muslim Americans.
"It's sad news. It's disturbing news. But it's not unpredictable," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society. "The nation is at war, even if it's not a traditional war. We just have to remain vigilant and continue to interface."
The survey found 44 percent favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted in any way.
The survey showed that 27 percent of respondents supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register where they lived with the federal government. Twenty-two percent favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent thought undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fund-raising....
James Shanahan, an associate professor of communications who helped organize the survey, said the results indicate "the need for continued dialogue about issues of civil liberties" in a time of war.
While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.
Posted by Robert at December 17, 2004 8:20 PM
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Isn't it interesting the US Muslim community is very concerned about the rights of its own members...but not one whit about the rights of anyone else? Right there is a reason for saying adios to these folks. If they're so concerned about their right to be up to no good, let them exercise that right on another continent where human life has already been devalued by tribal ideologies...
Posted by: pythagoras![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 17, 2004 8:35 PM
Pythagoras, well said. Muslim's are concerned with their rights only, and that is really ironic since non-muslims don't even have the right to breathe in muslim countries.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 17, 2004 8:49 PM
It is curious that the researches confuse civil liberties -- the right to free speech, free though, and so on -- with some very tentative attempts to ensure security.
One would have thought that their interest would be in the absurd rules that hamper effective measures for airline safety, including that which prohibits close scrutiny being given to more than 3 members of one "ethnic" or "religious" (we know what is being referred to) group.
Perhaps another way of analyzing the data would be to find out just how much those interviewed know about Islam. For example, do those who know what taqiyya is, or kitman, or their origins in the Qur'an (16.106; 3.28) are, or who have served in Iraq or in any other Muslim country, or possibly have managed to acquire a certain rudimentary knowledge of the belief-system of Islam, exhibit greater, or lesser, enthusiasm for monitoring the mosques or Muslim websites or television stations.
What, for example, do those who know all sorts of things that the general public does not know, think of the questions asked by the enquiring minds of Shanahan et al., and how would they answer the questions? What does Jean-Louis Breguiere think? Jean-Charles Brisard? The nice lady who heads MI5? What about the Turkish secret police? Avi Dichter in Israel? How about Judge Baltasar Garzon, that scourge of General Pinochet AND of Muslim terrorists? What about those famous right-wing fundamentalist Christian crazed Republican fanatics the late Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, if only they could speak to us d'outre-tombe? And that famous right-wing journalist and crazed Republican Party functionary Oriana Fallaci of Florence and New York? And that Republican Christian Ku Klux Klan fanatic Alain Finkielkraut? Or that absolutely superdeduper beyond-the-pale blackshirt extraordinaire and friend of Ernst Roehm and in addition Grand Kleagle of Mississippi who also has a soft spot for Mussolini -- that 5' 1' lady with the French accent, Madame Bat Ye'or?
Yes, Mr. Shanahan, we get your drift. And the whole point of your "study." And we don't agree. Not with a single one of your unstated but absolutely transparent presumptuous presumptions.
Posted by: Hugh at December 17, 2004 9:05 PM
It's reassuring to read that such a large number of Americans are wary of muslims. 9/11 really seems to have made an impact over there and a lot of people are aware of the danger muslims potentially pose to your country. That's more than can be said about our "old" continent. I hope I will still be allowed into the US in the future because we're well on our way to becoming a muslim continent (as has been well documented on jihadwatch.org). As soon as Turkey is allowed into the EU I will leave for the US. I don't see a future for myself over here. Please stay vigilant, my American friends.
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 17, 2004 9:18 PM
Bravo America!
Once again America proves why she is the world's last great hope! The statue of liberty burns a flame of freedom bright and clear!
Its not as if dutchmen after the Van Gogh murder wouldn't support such measures in holland in equal proportion. The difference between them and Americans is two-fold:
1. Americans can really, and I mean REALLY influence their goverenment. Unlike a Holland or Sweden or france or UK where such inconveniencing surveys would be quielty suppressed by the elite ruling club (media, bureucracy, judiciary, legislatures)...in America, such attempts at suppressing truth by the lamestream media and leftist academia have so far failed miserably.
2. The American govt can really, and I mean REALLY, make a difference in the world. I mean there's precious little in terms of retaliation/deterrence that a Holland or Belgium or Spain can do if for instance, their water systems come under chemical attack. Even the biggies in Europe like France and Germany implicitly count on US military muscle to counter such threats.
And now, time to celebrate a little. And ensoi the happy scene of moonbats trying desperately to explain, spin away, downplay, underplay and pathetically dance around the significance of these results....
at December 17, 2004 10:18 PM
Disillusionised_german, Perhaps there will be another wave of German immigration like there was in the 1870's and 1920's. Make sure to have all your paperwork in order, and also be ready to sneak over here since by the time you decide to leave, you might be trapped in the EU like the Jews were. Hey, check out this article:
December 16, 2004, 8:44 a.m.
The European Model: First-rate posturing, third-rate policy
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200412160844.asp
at December 17, 2004 10:29 PM
Thanks for the thoughts, Mark. I don't intend to "sneak out" here as I've still got family but I'm lucky because I have a sweet girlfriend in the US I would marry if she wanted to marry me. :-)
I should have known Europe was going down the drain when I passed a demonstration by muslims in London. They held up banners stating "The half moon will fly over Whitehall"... and now there's Turkey with one foot in the EU. God help us
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 17, 2004 10:38 PM
I forgot to state that this "demo" took place in the late 80s!
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 17, 2004 10:42 PM
44 percent is not that bad,but after the iranian hostage crisis,the Empire State Building,USS Cole,9/11,the results should have shown numbers closer to 90%.
The american people has started to wake up but it is still far from fully understanding the dangers of islam.
at December 17, 2004 10:59 PM
Disillusioned German: If your American girlfriend says "yes", you're on the fast track if you want to immigrate to the USA.
Posted by: Kepha1 at December 17, 2004 11:03 PM
Come on disillusioned german, set the date, pack up, and come on over. You have seen firsthand the perils of unrestrained muslim immigration and the deleterious impact of large Islamic enclaves (or multicultural ghettoes) on German society. You can help us warn Americans of the potential horrors if we aren't very careful.
I practically grew up in Germany as a military dependant. I attended my first two years of college in Munich and I have some absolutely wonderful memories of those years. They were some of the most exciting times of my life. The best beer in the world, although I don't drink much beer any more! It makes me sick to think of beautiful Germany overrun by muslims, but the most difficult thing for me to understand is the apathy of the German people.
I lived in several cities; Frankfurt, Munich, Darmstadt, Pirmasens,Kaiserslautern, (excuse my spelling, it's been a while!) and I guess the muslim masses hadn't arrived yet because I sure don't remember them. I have longed to visit Germany again but now I'm not so sure I want to, if things have changed as drastically as it seems. Even twenty-five years ago, there was plenty of anti-American sentiment in Germany although I never encountered any problems.
It would be worth the trip just to visit a German bakery and get some of those delicious pastries (I never knew what they were called) but they had a graham cracker bottom, a white, puffy middle, and were covered in chocolate. I actually have dreams about these delicacies, and they can't be found here.
at December 17, 2004 11:52 PM
Registering all Moslems in the United States should only be a first step. If found to be participating, either by contributing money or engaging in activities with groups on the list of terrorist organizations, deportation proceedings should follow. If the offender is a citizen, this must first be stripped from him (her).
"Profiling," about which the Moslem interlopers in our US society squeal so much, is one way to keep an eye on potential acts of violence against the United States and Americans. If "American" Moslems want to be Americans first, with loyalty to this country and its Constitution--not to Mecca, the Koran, and Islamic clerics, bin Ladin, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., they must stand up and declare themselves. No lame excuses, dissimulations, fork-tongued lies are acceptable.
Anyway, if Moslems do not like the way we defend ourselves here, nothing should keep them from packing up and returning (or if born here, re-discovering) whatever Islamic paradise they yearn for.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at December 17, 2004 11:54 PM
As a frequent traveller between Australia , the States and Europe I feel VERY ' inconvenienced' thanks to OBL & CO!
I am disappointed that only 44% of Americans want to see the precious Islamic minority monitored, I would have expected closer to 60 %. Muslims -as we know- do not value their nationality much. Sure, when it is to their advantage they are quick to scream 'discrimination' when authorities take a closer look. But what matters to them is their muslim brothers & the Islamic agenda, the Jihad and the hatred of the infidels. That is what unites them and that is what we don't need.
I would shut the mosques down and forbid this whole spook altogether, come what may. This is a subversive cult abusing our liberal laws and syatem for their insideous agenda, nothing else.
Time to make an end to it!
at December 18, 2004 12:45 AM
Kepha1 and Susan:
I have put a jihadwatch.org banner on my website - it's non-political but gets about 400,000 - 500,000 pageviews per month (mostly from visitors from the US) so I'm working on it.
My girlfriend is a black Christian girl with a slightly liberal touch even though she is actually conservative in her values. She still believes that Islam is a religion of peace though.
I like to think you could still visit Germany without encountering any problems, Susan. It has changed quite dramatically over the past 25 years, admittedly, but it's not too bad unless you come to the urban areas like Frankfurt, Cologne, Berlin, Munich etc.
If you want to come and visit again now's probably the best time. I wouldn't wait until Turkey's a member of the EU because then it's probably too late. My girlfriend is going to visit in February (I hope) and I will defintely look after her while she's here. We know that Muslims are racist and I'm not sure if a black American Christian lady would go down well with some of these morons.
Here's to our civilisation!
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 18, 2004 12:52 AM
Here's an streaming audio of the "famous wartime speech" by Sir Winston Churchill: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1200000/audio/_1204729_churchill_18jun40.ram
We probably need something as moving and positive as that for the struggle ahead. This man still fills me with awe. He was rightly voted for as the Greatest Briton.
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 18, 2004 1:05 AM
1. It's an ideology that is the enemy, not individuals, ie. if Bin Laden is gone, someone will take his place.
2. It's not a small problem: www.meforum.org/article/168
3. It needs to be corrected at the source. Examples of which are: brainwashing children with the deception of the Quran, radical teaching and unjustified hate.
Posted by: Report at December 18, 2004 1:14 AM
"Pop one for allah", gives any muslim desperate to escape failure, a brilliant out.
What a religion - islam offers a way for failures to escape with pride, dignity, and honour within their community - just pop one for allah, or more if you can and attain both honour and fame, a la atta.
Makes moslems always a potential danger
young male adults particularly.
Hey disillusioned-german, don't give up on europe yet, i think there will be some votes, and some surprises for the politicos.
Voting to hold on to western civilization is not to be confused with far right thinking. Contrary to what is oftimes expressed on this web site, defending western civilization is everyones' job: left, right and center, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist, atheist and agnostic, strait, gay and everything in between, female and male, and everything in between....oh, animists,Zoroastrians, Janes, Rastafarians....
islam should be banned in my country. It would be liberal in the extreme to allow this ideology but try to watch it, moniter its adherants, and restrict their civil rights. It would be far more honest to ban its practise, as we would ban a 'church' that sacrificed children.
Still, monitoring and restricted civil rights would be a start - i might start flying again.
Posted by: dby at December 18, 2004 3:05 AM
Well I hope not to immigrate, I want my country and I want to fight for change it, greetings
Posted by: Franze at December 18, 2004 4:09 AM
Count me in with the 44%
I went to a high school that taught me Islam was a peaceful religion (this was even after 9-11).
But now, with Madrid, Beslan, Bali, van Gogh and the sick beheading videos, I am starting to distrust Islam. Something has to be done. The government should not allow more immigrants from the Middle East to come to this country. We don't want to get the Eurabian disease. Also, I want more people of my generation to shake off the PC-mentality that has been ingrained by college professors and our media and face the facts. People want us dead for who were are.
Does anyone think that once Palestians will get their state that bin Ladin will stop targeting the infidel West? As far as I can remember, Yasser Arafat's movement was more of a nationalist movement and not a religious movemment.
Posted by: deutschboy at December 18, 2004 5:08 AM
Not very surprisingly, people who pay attention to the news are concerned about Islamic terror. I would guess that if they were asked, they'd also mention that they've done some research on Islam, be it through critical literature or the internet. Those who are (rightly) concerned about Islam and its correlation to terror are those who have taken the time to learn about it.
One way to placate worried civil libertarians would be through sunset laws.
Posted by: patrickafir at December 18, 2004 5:18 AM
Hey hey hey!!!??? What's happening? Germans rallying behind our cause ? I don't believe it! Brothers and sisters from the fatherland, right on!!!!!
It may just be the time to make the right move, don't you think? Can YOU accept that Jews are OUR people???
Can you accept that Christianity is YOUR culture that you should defend? Do you believe it is worthwhile defending?
Tell me Germans: What are you gonna do about it????
Posted by: Terminator at December 18, 2004 5:28 AM
44% ain't bad. In spite of Mr. Bush's ridiculous proclamations that islam is a "religion of peace", a "great religion", etc etc.
And institutional cultural/moral relavitists desperate efforts to maintain the credibility of that flawed and dangerous world-view.
at December 18, 2004 7:54 AM
It needs to be corrected at the source. Examples of which are: brainwashing children with the deception of the Quran, radical teaching and unjustified hate.
Posted by: Report at December 18, 2004 01:14 AM
Yes, YES, YES! Report, you hit the nail on the head!
I know I'm nagging on this point, but if we don't preserve kids' minds through puberty, about 95% of them will be lost forever! I am NOT EXAGGERATING! I am NOT MAKING THIS UP!
We MUST get to the source to put a permanent stop to this insanity. We must start with our own children, who are victims of our own impossibly incompetent educational system that is teaching our kids that Islam is a religion of peace. Being that the educational system is a huge government bureaucracy, that will take a long time.
Until that can be done, there is another way, and that is via ART--particularly the movies.
If a lot of the 56% who are 1) ignorant, 2) on the fence, or 3) confused see such movies, it will do an end-run around the schools, and best of all, it will reach ADULTS whose mindsets have survived the indoctrination of the schools.
Even the resulting controversy would be beneficial, since it would result in a huge debate. Make movie after movie, such as: 1) the life and times of Pelayo, 2) the life and times of Muhammad, 3) the life and times of Ibn Rushd, and 4) the TRUE story of the Crusades, etc. etc.
The movies would teach the TRUTH in the form of art, with action, exotic landscape, the thought processes of the enemy, and the visual presentation of what they really did. They would stir the appropriate emotions, which would cause them to be remembered.
Mel Gibson, YOU have some contacts--can you help?
Posted by: cubed at December 18, 2004 11:04 AM
The islamic community is only concerned about their rights.If one is not doing anything wrong, he should not have any worries. Protecting the general public is the purpose of law enforcement agencies. The inconvenience of profiling and registraion is small. Remember the prisoner of war camps of World War 2 ? At least, muslims are free to move about the community and free to worship as they believe. Christians are being persecuted daily and their way of life is attacked by muslims. Islam is not the religion of peace.
Posted by: flameon1 at December 18, 2004 11:10 AM
I highly recommend that all of our readers go back a few notches and click on patrickafir.
Patrick has been on this case for some time now, is a smart and articulate writer who does fine work daily at www.clarityandresolve.com. He'll be of some special interest to those who are Republican supporters and those whow are no longer the liberals they were when liberalism menat J.S. Mill and George Orwell.
Patrick is a good friend to those of us here, and I wish to encourage you all to visit his site and leave a note.
Posted by: sonofwalker at December 18, 2004 2:53 PM
She still believes that Islam is a religion of peace though.
Posted by: disillusionised_german
I have taken to carrying my copy of the Koran around with me. With all the pertinent passages flagged. Every time someone says “Religion of peace” I pull it out and start quoting from it. That always gets their attention when you read them the actual passages from the Koran. It is impossible to refute then. I suggest everyone do the same.
at December 18, 2004 4:56 PM
That's a low-ball figure. Dislike and lack of respect for Islam is brought on by Muslims. Also if they'd have conducted a survey on a larger scale, the % would be much higher.
Give it up Muslims.....You blew it.
Posted by: Prickzilla at December 18, 2004 4:58 PM
Here is the Canada.com version of this story. They have a "sound-off" section.
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=f5f149e8-6621-48ba-bf3f-09c2b0d35a1a
Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at December 18, 2004 5:25 PM
As patrickafif describes, that is basically how I began to learn about the religion of peace...searching the internet, reading books (Robert Spencer, Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes and others).
However, most of the people in my small sphere of existence claim to be too busy to give the subject a second thought. With my limited knowledge, I try to interest them with some of the nasty facts that lie beneath the surface of Islam. But what I really need is a small pamphlet on what every American should know, a little book of facts about Islam. Then I'd buy 50 or 100 copies and just pass them out to my friends and neighbors. Anything like this on the market? Or, is this something Robert and Hugh need to put together?
Posted by: Greg at December 18, 2004 11:14 PM
This is the same religion that allows children to be married, with marriage consummation occuring at 9 years of age.
To repeat a line I read recently, I think we ALL found out we need to know about Islam on 9/11.
Religiously condoned, even celebrated, murder, torture, genocide, slaughtering women and children (ie. Beslan), pedophilia...yes, I think we know everything we need to know.
The word needs to be spread, especially to those in the USA who would align themselves with Islam's "plight".
at December 19, 2004 2:50 AM
Greg, contact me through susan_p. We're working diligently on just the right approach, along with benelux and others.
Posted by: sonofwalker at December 19, 2004 1:51 PM
It has been to long for Americans to come out with this opinion.
We should have been restricting Muslim civil liberties when Surhan Surhan first assanated Kennedy in Los Angeles. That is when truly the Moslems declared war on the United States!
Posted by: Morgenstern15 at December 19, 2004 2:27 PM
Terminator wrote:
Hey hey hey!!!??? What's happening? Germans rallying behind our cause ? I don't believe it! Brothers and sisters from the fatherland, right on!!!!!
It may just be the time to make the right move, don't you think? Can YOU accept that Jews are OUR people???
Can you accept that Christianity is YOUR culture that you should defend? Do you believe it is worthwhile defending?
Tell me Germans: What are you gonna do about it????
-------------------------------------------------
I felt pro-British as long as I can remember. I may be a minority but there are some (admittedly only a few) Germans out there who aren't your typical German. My idol is Winston Churchill, by the way.
Why do you think every German is anti-semitic? It may be that 90 percent of Germans are - and I find that to be a valid estimation - but about 10 percent aren't and I'm one of the 10 percent. I'm anti-Islam, full stop, exclamation mark.!
I don't know what I can do about Germany become the Bundesrepublik Turkey because I've given up on this country. I have also given up on France and the UK for that matter. I'm not sure where you reside but I'm still going to celebrate Christmas and even though I'm not a practising Christian who goes to church regularly I know where my moral and social values come from.
To be honest I find your assumptions less than helpful and feel annoyed by what you're implying!
Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 19, 2004 5:54 PM
Disillusionised_german,
I would be astonished if more than, say, 15 - 20% of Germans could be considered anti-semitic, and offsetting that are a remarkable number of Germans who make extra efforts to counter anti-semitism.
Germany is still, to my mind, in recovery from Hitler and the death camps, and thus the response of Germans to the islamic threat may be bizarre, with a lot of people, remembering how their grandparents were misled by Hitler into a place of utter shame, are hesitant, or oppose, resisting the islamic takeover, thinking of the injustice of the past.
However, Hitler was a strong ally of islam, and that knowledge may help Germans make up their minds.
at December 19, 2004 8:47 PM
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