What do these jerks know about the strange quirks of the universe,when they have to be instructed the right or wrong way of such a basic thing as wiping their backsides

master of the universe

Posted by: hawkwind at January 2, 2005 3:09 PM

it was not me
Shiva the Destroyer

Posted by: shiva at January 2, 2005 3:19 PM

Since these remarks come from those of who some still believe the earth is flat, should we put an ounce of effort into defending ourselves. Once again, the Muslims talk out both sides of their mouthes, as they also said their Allah caused the Tsunami as a warning to return to Islam.

They have no credibility, none.

Posted by: DCWatson at January 2, 2005 3:24 PM

Talking to a haji today
He was all thumbs up for America,surprised me.
Theres going to be a lot of muslims here who are going to pissed of at Allah here in Indonesia
In my ealier posts I was against aid for Indonesia.
Not now when I see the extent of the damage.
America is showing its true strength and USA is gaining a lot of respect here.

Posted by: shiva at January 2, 2005 3:47 PM

You have people like this living in America!! One wonders if they are using stones instead of toilet paper to wipe their arses according to dictates of their 'Holy' Prophet.

Posted by: Morgane at January 2, 2005 3:55 PM

One poster put up a list of earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and such dating back to 1815, putting some of their dates in bold type in order to point out that many of them took place in December or April: the months of Christmas and (usually) Easter.

So while Christians celebrate the Birth or Death of the Prince of Peace, the followers of the price of war (Moslems) die from natural disasters and cant seem to grasp the fact that their Allah seems to be asleep at the wheel. The Qur’an claims Moslems are better the infidels, when in reality they are so poor and backward that it takes infidels and their money and brains to support and sustain Moslem lives .

If it where not for us infidels, what would the death count for these Moslem countries really climb to? That in and of itself must say something, even to an illiterate.

Why would their Allah the creator of earth let infidels have dominion over supposedly superior people? Allah has a uncanny way of hating the infidel.

Mohammad considered Jesus to be a good Prophet
Jesus considered Mohammad to be a false prophet.

Posted by: Bar at January 2, 2005 4:50 PM

This is very interesting.

A gentleman using the name "IbnMardhiyah" was one of the central figures in the notorious Clear Guidance forums.

Perhaps this is just a coincidence. We'll see.

Meanwhile, almaghrib.org is registered to:

Registrant Name:Mohamed Elsherief
Registrant Organization:Al-Huda School
Registrant Street1:9348-405 Cherry hill rd
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:College Park
Registrant State/Province:md
Registrant Postal Code:20740
Registrant Country:US

and is hosted by/at:

OrgName: ThePlanet.com Internet Services, Inc.
OrgID: TPCM
Address: 1333 North Stemmons Freeway
Address: Suite 110
City: Dallas
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 75207
Country: US

And for those not familiar with the term 'maghrib' and what it represents in the wonderful world of Islamism, see:

Radical Islam in the Maghreb
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/4802/jesus.islammaghreb.pdf

Posted by: Al Haganah at January 2, 2005 4:58 PM

This event brought to mind the blessing & curses of Genesis 12:3:

"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

It applies to the Jews, and those grafted into the root of Jesse through Jesus (Christians). Who most hates & teaches hatred of Jews, Israel & Christians? And where in the world today is the highest concentration of those who profess this ideology of hate?

Food for thought.

Posted by: daughter of patriots at January 2, 2005 6:16 PM

just saw BBC world news (swb),

they had a ' how do the religions of most of those killed in the late great sunammi respond to the deaths',

thus Hindu, Buddhist, Christian and moslem; the only one that suggested G-d was involved was the moslem !

This muslim response/explanation; 'Allahs great plan, which we cannot know about, and might, thus, appear fierce etc....

The other three responses/explanation were different, but all had a rationality that was lacking in the moslem.

The Christian acknowleged that an earlier 'superstitious' Christianity might have thought differently.

ISLAM HAS A MASSIVELY FLAWED MESSENGER, AND A GARBLED MESSAGE, if you have to treat it as a religion, and every aspect of life is viewed through that distorted prism, including the sunammi,

and certainly including us,

AND A VERY DANGEROUSLY DISTORTED PRISM IT IS.

Posted by: dby at January 2, 2005 7:01 PM

The Christians did it??? I thought it was the Jews.

/sarcasm off

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at January 2, 2005 7:26 PM

Talking to a haji today
He was all thumbs up for America,surprised me.
Theres going to be a lot of muslims here who are going to pissed of at Allah here in Indonesia
In my ealier posts I was against aid for Indonesia.
Not now when I see the extent of the damage.
America is showing its true strength and USA is gaining a lot of respect here.
Posted by: shiva

I agree with shiva totally on this point. And even if it didn’t gain us any brownie points, we should still help them. They are human beings, however misled they may be. Many of them are just little kids who have lost their families, and parents who have lost their children. If we truly have any argument with any of them, we can wait till later to settle it with them. Till then, we should help to the extent that we can.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at January 2, 2005 7:31 PM

You see fellow infidels, any good muslim knows that the earth is flat (mohammad was a rapist and murderer but would never LIE) and when us uppity infidels gather to celebrate our 'evil' holidays we start putting up trees laden with decorations, pounds and pounds of lights on our houses, placing heavy gift wrapped boxes in concentrated spots under those trees or we start burdening the ground with easter eggs, not to mention that dasterdly easter bunny hopping around putting yet more stress on an earth that is flat...with all that going on during our festivals the fragile flat earth is bound to crack and shift causing earthquakes and giant waves to kill muslims....see now that we look at it from their prospective we can see...WHAT ABSOLUTE CRACKPOTS THEY REALLY ARE...and here I thought they were just acting dumb to throw us off, guess its not an act after all.

Posted by: USAgirl at January 2, 2005 7:39 PM

And maybe the HUGE gathering in Mecca during Ramadan unbalanced the tectonic plates.

Seriously, what can you expect from a group whose scientific literacy still extends to blaming women for not producing sons?

Posted by: jay at January 2, 2005 9:22 PM

One Islamic website has started the big lie
that the Jews used a Nuclear bomb to create the Tsunami.

Will their paranoia and denial ever end.

Posted by: ala-sux at January 2, 2005 9:30 PM

While idiots like Sen Patrick Leahy complain that the United States isn't giving enough to aid victims of last week's tsunami in Asia, I have heard nothing about how little is coming from Islamic nations, especially since several of the affected countries have largely Muslim populations.

I see that of the 34 countries on the UN aid list, only 7 are Islamic....4 are Asian, and the remaining 23 are Western. Looks like preserving Western civilization might be important to the planet after all.

While the US has pledged $350 million, the total of the 7 Islamic nations is about $29.4 million. The largest Muslim pledge, $10 million each by the Saudis and Qatar, is pocket change to them. Iran is a disgrace, but we already knew that. Must be hard to make ends meet when most of your dollars go to fund jihad.

So, while the United States gives freely without asking who will get the money, Muslims by and large turn their backs on the victims, many of whom are their Muslim brothers and sisters.

Let's see this story explored in the "unbiased" media.

Posted by: Mig at January 2, 2005 10:18 PM

No wonder Islamists want to go back to the 7th century - their explanation of causality is still stuck there. I suppose they never bothered to study plate tectonics. Can't somebody point them to Wikipedia???

Posted by: Darius LaMonica at January 2, 2005 10:21 PM

Islam is the only historical entity that does NOT clean up it's own act. Islam has, is, and will be, policed via external means.

Posted by: Report at January 2, 2005 11:37 PM

Muslims will be mired in the 7th century until they wither and die. Sooner or later, one of these intellectual giants will have to wake up, open its encrusted eyes, and take a long, hard look at its pathetic, stagnated, rotten world. If not for the generosity, technology, intellect, and innovations of the West, the Islamic world would be almost extinct.
Why do we consistently help our enemies survive so they can attack us another day with our own sophisticated weapons. Weapons that they are too stupid and lazy to create, no less.

Posted by: Susanp at January 2, 2005 11:54 PM

Only sick people may think of this!!! I knew much muslims but i dont know why Muslims in the Western Hemisphere are sowing much hatred than those Muslims peacefully living in Arabia. You are original dwellers must act to find out. My prayers are always with you. The Lord Jesus, the Greatest! All praises is due for him alone.

Posted by: losavotsen at January 3, 2005 12:27 AM

muslims cause trouble...

Posted by: hindu at January 3, 2005 1:10 AM

just goes to show that all the man made deities such as ALLAH,GOD,BUDHA,KRISHNA,DAGDA,ODIN, ITZAMNA,SHIVA,MICHAEL JACKSON,AH-PUCH, POSEIDON,NEPTUNE,BRAHMA,HERMES,VENUS,
and a large host of others do not match up to the power of GOOD OLD MOTHER EARTH. Maybe she was demanding a little respect.
She feeds us,she shelters us and all we do is choke her with the fumes from burning the moslimes black gold,and turning this beautiful planet into a MODOR
WE should learn from Mother Earth she does not disciminate

Urban Guerilla

Posted by: hawkwind at January 3, 2005 1:36 AM

OT
If blood was ketchup then mohamed would be the ketcthup king

Posted by: hawkwind at January 3, 2005 1:56 AM

Boy, they really scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for things to denigrate the "Kufr" for. Now we're responsible for natural disasters. Typical mindset of Muslim - blame others for anything not good in your own life. Afterall, Islam is so perfect, so wonderful, so stupendous, it's gotta be those nasty infidels. It's especially revolting that the people who say these things are nice and comfy and safe in Western countries. If I had my way, I'd toss them out - to Aceh.

Yeah, clear the earth of the Kufr, then when the next tsunami or earthquake destroys your Islamic hellholes, who'll come to your rescue? From what we see today, certainly not your precious Muslim brethren. You're united as one against the Kufr, but are at each others' throats all the other times, especially when your brethren are in need. A sure sign of a pathetic failure of a "culture".

Posted by: feralee at January 3, 2005 3:25 AM

ICTINIKE: God of War and Treachery. Forget Spiderman, meet Spidergod. More like a cartoon creation, he seems to have spent most of his time trying to outsmart the Great Rabbit MANABOZHO. (Spidey meets Bugs Bunny).

On one occasion, or should it be episode, he tricked MANABOZHO out of his very skin, and impersonated the lop-eared japester. MANABOZHO had the last laugh as usual by giving ICTINIKE a large cow-hide blanket. What he didn't tell him was that most of it was still attached to a war drum. (We haven't seen the animation so some details are not at all clear.) Before long there was a frenzy of pounding. Boing! Blam! Whumpetty! Kerplunk! ICTINIKE bounced all over the place. Finally he boinged high into the air, landed heavily on hard ground and broke his neck. Daffy Duck was never like this.

Laugh? You could split your sides. Even the idea of a spider with a neck
SOURCE UNKNOWN

Posted by: shiva at January 3, 2005 5:17 AM

"Al Maghrib Community Forums: Christians Cause Tsunamis"

Ah yes my esteemed and learned Falluja giant spider summoners!!! It be true. I have seen many times the awesome power of the evil kaffir on the magic box where I learned of the awesome power of Sabarina the teen witch, Darth Vader and Gandalf. The kafir are powerful...they have elves, dwarves and talking cats for friends and are able to kill trolls, orcs, Dark Lords and evil galactic wart-afflicted robe wearing emperors. Allah me so afraid!!!! The infidels could send their alien minions to suck out Osama's brains with a straw. I have seen it done on the box of power!!!!!!

Posted by: obl r us at January 3, 2005 7:27 AM

Wait!!! Was the wart afflicted robe wearing emperor who Darth Vader killed Osama?????? Allah...noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: obl r us at January 3, 2005 7:31 AM

I don’t know why you find the claim that earthquakes are triggered by the Christian festivals of Easter and Christmas so ridiculous. This fact is clearly mentioned in the Koran, and I have quoted the relevant verses below:

7-11: And He said unto them, that unbelievers will send unto thee from the north one by the name of Santa who is like Satan spelt wrongly. Santa, with his three reindeers of the apocalypse, shall shake the earth and bring much destruction to all believers, who will cry out “O merciful Allah, why doth this strange man who wears furs and kinky boots torment us” and Allah will reply “I don’t know, perhaps the big guy thinks Islam sucks”.

Also please note the following verse of the holy Koran:

9-11: And the Easter Bunny, which hath the symbol of the egg, shall make the earth tremble with its fury. The faith of believers will be shaken, they will say, "nay, nay, why doth a large furry rodent destroy our crappy houses?" And Allah will say unto them, "he does this so that ye shall know that seismic activity does not exist."

Posted by: Timbo at January 3, 2005 10:27 AM

Great one timbo

Posted by: hawkwind at January 3, 2005 10:48 AM

"That is really interesting - all those dates do revolve around the celebrations of the kuffar."

I find it equally interesting how a human being can function without a brain.

Posted by: Mike at January 3, 2005 12:54 PM

Jesus said, "The thief (Satan) comes only to kill, to steal and destroy. I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly." John 10:10

However, maybe it is God himself, to wit:

Psalm 83 (sections)

O God do not remain quiet; do not be silent and do not be still. For those who hate you conspire together against your treasured ones and make shrewd plans against your people. They have said, "Come let us wipe them out as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." For they have conspired together with one mind and make a covenant against you....(verses 6-8 proceed to give the ancient names of some familiar places, i.e., Arabia, Jordan, Syrian, Gaza, Lebanon, and Iraq, of the people banded together against the Lord)

continuing in verse 9 and 15 thru 18:

Deal with them (O God)....So pursue them with Your tempest and terrify them with Your storm; fill their faces with dishonor so that they will seek Thy name, O LORD. Let them be ashamed and dismayed forever and let them be humiliated and perish that they may know that You alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth.

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at January 3, 2005 1:24 PM

I did a bit of googling earlier, and was surprised to find out how much and how Long this kind of blame has been going on, literally Centuries. These guys are Dead wrong, of course, but this isn't the first time and it isn't the only 'religion' to make the claim.

Posted by: Gary at January 3, 2005 2:34 PM

I just want to let you people know what Islam is about. Its best if you hear it from a Muslim. If one had questions about a medical condition he wouldnt ask a lawyr on how to go about it. He would as a doctor. Same thing here.

First and formost:

'Islam' comes from the arabic word which means 'submission'.

Muslims believe that Islam is the way to Peace

The way one attains peace is by submitting completely and whole heartedly to Allah (arabic name for God All Mighty).

Someone who submits completely and whole heartedly to Allah is a Muslim. Muslim means 'someone who submits to Allah'

The way a Muslim submits to Allah is by obeying His comandments in the Qur'an and following the teaching of Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him).

To be a Muslim one has to believe in the 5 pillars of Islam:
1: Declaration of Faith : a person says 'I bear witness that there is no one worthy of worship by Allah and prophet Muhammad is His last and final messenger

2: 5 Daily Prayers

3: Fasting During the Month of Ramadan

4: Charity : 2.5% from accumilated weatlh

5: Hajj : Pilgramage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime

When a person declares their faith they have to believe in what is knows as the 6 articles of faith:

1: Allah is 1...no partners, not divisions, nothing like Him

2: Belief in the Angels and Jinns : Angels are creaturs of Light and Jinns are creaturs of Fire

3: Belief in the holy books : ingeel, torah, Quran...etc

4: Belief in the Prophets : From Adam, Noah, Job, Moses, Jesus, Ismial, all the way to Muhammad

5: Belief in the Day of Judgement : when all people will be risen up to be held accountable for thier deeds

6: Belif in Qadr : Allah's Power and destiny

A person has to believe in the Above to to be a Muslim

People manytime ask why Muslims do certian things such as "why do muslim women cover", why muslims dont eat pork, dont date, dont drink alcochol..etc.

The reason Muslims dont do or do certian acts is b.c Allah commanded them to do it. There is not other reason.

Allah gives commandments in the Quran such as 'Establish the Prayer'. Which is basically saying that you have to pray 5 times a day everyday. It is throught the teachings of Prophet Muhammad that you learn HOW to pray.

I hope this helps answer a few questions abot Islam. If you have more do ask.

With the above said to explain what you dont understand about Islam...

Posted by: AlBaraa at January 3, 2005 3:25 PM

EXTREMELY LAME DA'WA ALERT.

Posted by: CGW at January 3, 2005 4:33 PM

There are a lot of baseless accusations going on around about Islam.

It was a simple question. Requires a simple answer...

what do you not understand about Islam...?

Posted by: AlBaraa at January 3, 2005 4:38 PM

We have read your book...enough said.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 3, 2005 4:47 PM

AlBaraa-
Thank you kindly for the offer, however, please permit me to inform you that many of the individuals posting here are already familiar with the doctrines and history of Islam. For example, the USC has provided translations of the Qur'an (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/) and hadith(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/) that are available on-line. Furthermore, there is a virtually limitless supply of articles and information on Islam, shari'a, as well as the history of the Islamic world, dhimmi civilizations, etc. etc. Of course, there is also the local bookstore, which enables anyone to pick up a history book or what have you.
Certainly there are alot of baseless accusations going around regarding Muslims and Islam, but if you hang around long enough, you will find that this forum is full of well-informed people whose views and positions are not based on conjecture.
Welcome to JW/DW - I look forward to reading your posts.

Posted by: Mike at January 3, 2005 5:17 PM

AlBaraa, we know very well what is islam, in my country thirteen bags with Goma 2 put by muslims to kill kaffirs, the 11 th March, produce 192 deaths in Madrid, later in Leganes, they suicide, before they have menaced to all spanish because we were in Iraq but too for being in Afghanistan and the best for removing the muslims from Al- Andalus, we know very well what is Islam.
Islam is a heretical religion from christianity, it´s a satanical religion because they see well killing humans for their God, they´re like the Gods of The Pharaons, human sacrifices, the same, and in addition, is a religion where you can violate a kaffir and kill her or him because is a kaffir, the lie, the robe, all is allowed, where are the equality in islam,aren´t in any place.
Islam is the greatest cancer in the world, and they´re mutating and each time worst, at first omeyas, these killed by abasies, the ismails that drug theirself with hachis, and later kill, almohades and almoravides in Spain where destroy christian towns and profanate churches like Al-Mansur, and the latest the wahabbites.
We know very well what is islam, and we don´t want it, we deserve something better.

Posted by: Franze at January 3, 2005 6:23 PM

AlBarra: Thank you for bringing us kufars up to speed. Now we will help you understand what it means to be a true kuffar. I will begin and I'm sure that many of the other posters on this blog can add their own thoughts:

A true kuffar is one who has studied the Koran, Sira and Hadiths, and through the use of reason, knowledge of history, economics, political science, physics, sociology, philosophy, visual arts, performing arts, and unihibited discourse in a society that treasures free speech, allocation of human rights without regard to gender, creed, or belief, concludes that the Islamic ideology is an anachronistic political, social, economic, and cultural relic from the medeival ages that never managed to scale up successfully beyond any meaningful social or political construct higher than a primative tribal order.

A true kuffar wishes no ill will upon any people who themselves do not attempt to export their ideology with violence. All peaceful intercourse is welcome. Persons of any creed, gender, or belief are welcome to dwell in our society in peace and with full protection of their self-evident human rights as equals to all other denizens, kuffar and non-kuffar.

A true kuffar will defend with extreme vigour those rights and the institutions of the civilization that preserves them.

Peace to peoples who desire peace. Extermination and removal from the human gene pool to those who oppose us, the true kuffars. Live with us in peace and we will help you prosper. Oppose us and your memory and the memory of your ancestors will be erased from the planet and your descendants will never be born. It is the kuffar way.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at January 3, 2005 6:24 PM

Al-Baraa;

Many of us here reject Islam because we have studied it thoroughly.

It would be pointless in our studies to not get our information "from the horses mouth" i.e. The Hadith, the qur'aan, Islams historical writings (Sirat rasool Allah, Ibn Ishaq; Tabari etc)So your assertion of the opposite is unfounded.

Here are a few of the problems I have with Islam/Muhammed - maybe you'd care to address them for me?;

Jesus warned us that false prophets would come and that we could tell them, not only by their differing message to His, but by the 'fruit they bore'

There are quite a lot of characteristics in Muhammeds life that I would class as 'bad fruit'

a) Marrying a 6 year old when he was in his fiftys.
b) His murderous traits, open ended commands to kill, (not just in self defence or war situation) but to kill anyone who refused to convert to Islam. ( Suras 8:39, 9:5, 9:123 etc etc..)
c) Affording himself special priveledges over and above those of his followers under the guise of 'revelation'. For example;
i; Muslim men can have up to 4 wives, he had 11 - 13.
ii; If men did, then to be fair, they were told to sleep with their wives on a rota basis, Whereas it was 'revealed' to Muhammed that he could 'go in to whoever he wished, whenever he wished.
iii; He received 20% of all spoils of war, the remaining 80% to be shared amongst his army, which could have been up to 10,000 men (giving them each .008%)
iv; Other men could not be alone with, or look upon 'non-mahram' women,
But, Muhammed could. ( Bukhari, 4750)

A lot of his teachings, I personally find hard to believe and accept. For example;

Qur’an 36:38
“The sun keeps revolving in its orbit at the dispensation of the All-Knowing. And the Moon, We have measured for her mansions till she returns like dried date stalks. It is not permitted for the Sun to overtake the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day. Each (just) swims along, floating in (its own) orbit as a Sign as in a race. And we made similar vessels [chariots] for them to ride. But we could have drowned them if we pleased.”
Well, the sun doesn't move.

Tabari I:219
“When Allah wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke hovered loftily over it. He called it ‘heaven.’ Then He dried out the water and made it earth. He split it and made it seven earths on Sunday. He created the earth upon a big fish, that being the fish mentioned in the Qur’an. By the Pen, the fish was in the water. The water was upon the back of a small rock. The rock was on the back of an angel. The angel was on a big rock. The big rock was in the wind. The fish became agitated. As a result, the earth quaked, so Allah anchored the mountains and made it stable. This is why the Qur’an says, ‘Allah made for the earth firmly anchored mountains, lest it shake you up.’”
Qur’an 21:26 “Don’t the unbelievers see that the heavens and earth were joined together in one piece before we clove them asunder? ...Will they not believe? And We have set on the earth mountains as stabilizers, lest the earth should convulse without them. "

Bukhari:V1B4N163
“The Prophet said, ‘Whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with an odd number of stones. And whoever wakes up should wash his hands before putting them in the water for ablution. Nobody knows where his hands were during sleep.’”

Bukhari:V7B71N673
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If a fly falls in your drink, dip all of it into the cup and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing, an antidote or treatment for that disease.

I await your defence; I however will not be able to respond to you for a further 9 hours, as it is 11:30pm here in England and I am retiring for the evening.

Regards,
Kc

"Yesua, Al-Tariq, Al- Haq, wah Al- Hyatt"

Posted by: kc England at January 3, 2005 6:33 PM

"Christians Cause Tsunamis?" That's CRAZY! Everyone knows it's the JOOOOOZZ. I checked, every tsunami in recorded history has occurred between January and December, an interval during which ALL Jewish holidays take place.

10 million pledged from Saudi Arabia. Unbelievable. A nation with 50 quintillion princes who'd wipe their arses with $100 bills if the quran didn't make 'em use rocks (they make do with large gold nuggets, I guess).

Amazing how people like this can look up from a rubble-strewn beach at a sky dark with western relief helicopters and still manage to blame the infidel for FORCE 9 earthquakes, for god's sake.

Irony is toast around people like this. Once you think up a joke, some muslim is just going to beat you to the punch by saying and believing it.

Posted by: CornHolio at January 3, 2005 6:50 PM

AlBaraa,
How can you believe in the holy books, the new and old testaments, when islam forbids you to read them, and always has.
To read them is to discover the hoax of mo the messenger, peace be upon those he slaughtered.

mo, peace be upon those he slaughtered, appropriated the entire history of Christians and Jews pre 600ce, all of which was written, and told his illiterate followers that only he, mo, peace be upon those he slaughtered, knew the truth of events that had taken place 600 years, a thousand years, two thousand years, before he was born. What he then related, over a period of years, was, of course, absolute nonsense having only the slimmest connections to the truth.

As what he related was obviously bs even to the illiterate arab tribes, mo, peace be upon those he slaughtered, was forced to murder, slaughter and war to spread his bs - 10 wars against his own arab brothers in 10 years, pretty good for a man of 'peace', even a war to get his own tribe to accept him as 'mo the messenger', peace be upon those he slaughtered.

You are the one of little knowledge Albaraa.

mo, peace be upon those he slaughtered, is dead. We must ensure his bs, now called islam, meets the same fate, for the sake of civilization on this planet, for the sake of truth, for the sake of sanity, and in the name of the all those, the hundreds of millions, starting with the arab tribes, who have died resisting mo, peace be upon those he slaughtered, and his lies.

Posted by: dby at January 3, 2005 7:43 PM

>AlBaraa, we know very well what is islam, in my
>country thirteen bags with Goma 2 put by muslims
>to kill kaffirs, the 11 th March, produce 192
>deaths in Madrid, later in Leganes, they
>suicide, before they have menaced to all spanish
>because we were in Iraq but too for being in
>Afghanistan and the best for removing the
>muslims from Al- Andalus, we know very well what
>is Islam.
>
>Islam is a heretical religion from
>christianity, it´s a satanical religion because
>they see well killing humans for their God,
>they´re like the Gods of The Pharaons, human
>sacrifices, the same, and in addition, is a
>religion where you can violate a kaffir and
>kill her or him because is a kaffir, the lie,
>the robe, all is allowed, where are the
>equality in islam,aren´t in any place.
>
>Posted by: Franze

Dear Franze, you are making the mistake of judgeing what Islam is by looking at the ill actions of a select number of Muslims. Dont judge a religion by its people, rather judge it by its book.

>We have read your book...enough said.
>Posted by: Carolyn2

You may have read the Quran, but you have not understood it.

if you want to really understand the Quran check out www.tafsir.com.

>Thank you for bringing us kufars up to speed.
>Now we will help you understand what it means
>to be a true kuffar. I will begin and I'm sure
>that many of the other posters on this blog can
>add their own thoughts:
>
>A true kuffar is one who has studied the Koran,
>Sira and Hadiths, and through the use of
>reason, knowledge of history, economics,
>political science, physics, sociology,
>philosophy, visual arts, performing arts, and
>unihibited discourse in a society that
>treasures free speech, allocation of human
>rights without regard to gender, creed, or
>belief, concludes that the Islamic ideology is
>an anachronistic political, social, economic,
>and cultural relic from the medeival ages that
>never managed to scale up successfully beyond
>any meaningful social or political construct
>higher than a primative tribal order.
>
>Posted by: Hulegu Khan

The arabic word 'kuffar' comes from the word 'ka fa ra' which means to cover. A farmer is regarded as a kafir b/c he covers the seeds with dirt in the literal sense. If you go into the Islamic meaning of Kafir or Kuffar, then it is somone who has covered or rejected the truth. There is also a 'Jahil' which means somone who is ignorant. When it comes to the Islamic term it means that somone is ignorant to the news of Islam, meaning they havent been todl about Islam.

>Many of us here reject Islam because we have
>studied it thoroughly.

Its one thing to have studied it and its another thing to have understood it.

>A lot of his teachings, I personally find hard
>to believe and accept.

When it comes to believeing or understanting Islam one needs to come to it with a naked heart. Meaning if you truly want to learn...empty your tea cup. Leave all preconcieved ideas behind and come to learn about it with a naked heart.

One thing that one needs to understand when learning about Islam is the concept of tawheed.

tawheed is basically unification, or oneness. Islamically the term is refferd to God (or Allah in Arabic). Tawheed is the belief that Allah is one, no one like him, no partners, no kids, spouses...He is One and only.

A more through explaination of the fundamentals of tawheed can be found here:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/abutaw/abutaw_1.html

>How can you believe in the holy books, the new
>and old testaments, when islam forbids you to
>read them, and always has.
>To read them is to discover the hoax of mo the
>messenger, peace be upon those he slaughtered.

As Muslims we believe that the holy books were revealed, but they were changed by the people so that it may suit thier wants. We believe the books that exist today is not the originally revealed to the prophets before, b/c peopel changed them.

The Quran contains the message of the past scriptures and the final message that was brought forth by the last prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him).

Just as a note to people, if you say that you have read the Quran, but have not read and understood the arabic, then you havent read much at all. The Quran itself cannot be translated, What you may have read in english is the translation of the interpretation, in which thigns also get lost in translation if things arent further explained.

If you truly want to learn what ISLAM teaches...not by the actions of some 'Muslims', rather by its scripture then i recomend you check out:
http://www.tafsir.com/

Posted by: AlBaraa at January 3, 2005 9:03 PM

Albaraa,
welcome you to the site.
You have taken the time to respond to each person; thank you again.

There is, on this site, little patience for bs, and your responses, however well meaning, are exactly that.

SAME OLD, SAME OLD.

Appropriating another cultures' history is a bizarre theft, but that's what mo, peace be to those he slaughtered, did; then to tell the people whose history he stole, that they had it wrong anyway - totally insane, especially when you are talking about events 600 years before you were born, 2000 years before you were born, 5000 years before you were born, but that is what mo the messenger, peace be to those he slaughtered, did.
And when people would not accept his word, mo, peace be to those he slaughtered, killed them.

The history, memory, culture and ever changing and growing belief systems of Christians and Jews i assure you, Albaraa, i best written and understood by Christians and Jews.

This culture of Christians and Jews goes back thousands of years before mo, peace be to those he slaughtered.
If you would like to be part of these cultures, they are both open to those who wish to learn from our thousands of years of recorded history.
Unlike islam, however, we do not do now, what we might have done 3000 years ago; we have learned from our history, and continue to learn.

Christians and Jews disagree on a few things, the divinity of Christ for one. We agree on writing are own history, and we agree on the spuriousness of mo's, peace be to those he slaughtered, drivel.

If you want to be part of an Abrahamic religion Albaraa, you'll need to read our books, as written by us Christians and Jews.

Posted by: dby at January 4, 2005 12:03 AM

Albaraa,

We read.

AL-ARAF (THE HEIGHTS)
007.052
YUSUFALI: For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.
PICKTHAL: Verily We have brought them a Scripture which We expounded with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have brought them a Book which We have made clear with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

FUSSILAT (EXPLAINED IN DETAIL)
041.003
YUSUFALI: A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
PICKTHAL: A Scripture whereof the verses are expounded, a Lecture in Arabic for people who have knowledge,
SHAKIR: A Book of which the verses are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know:

AD-DUKHAN (SMOKE)
044.058
YUSUFALI: Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.
PICKTHAL: And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
SHAKIR: So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.
AZ-ZUMAR (THE TROOPS, THRONGS)
039.028
YUSUFALI: (It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
PICKTHAL: A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: An Arabic Quran without any crookedness, that they may guard (against evil).

AL-QAMAR (THE MOON)
054.017
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
PICKTHAL: And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
SHAKIR: And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

054.022
YUSUFALI: But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
PICKTHAL: And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
SHAKIR: And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

054.032
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
PICKTHAL: And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
SHAKIR: And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

054.040
YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
PICKTHAL: And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
SHAKIR: And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

The quran may be hard to understand as you say.
Or maybe you're just emulating the seal like you're suppose to. You know, lying to the infidels for fun and profit.

Posted by: Joseph of Carpentry at January 4, 2005 12:44 AM

Albaraa,

You got me, for one. I don't read arabic. And I well understand that there are things lost in the translation. But can you translate WELL for me the caravan raids, assassinations, torture of prisoners for loot... Ah, forget it. I know the answers, " This was a time of WAR. The Prophet was DEFENDING islam. Those people were DENYING or CRITISISING islam". So they had it coming? I mean, it's not like we're talkin' apples and apples here, right?

OT rant warning:

Sons of "pigs and apes" is what a local cleric was proudly (and very loudly)proclaiming here a while ago in Vancouver, Can. And as far as I know he is still immune from prosecution.

I use to feel that Canada had a better "moral sense" (higher and mightier) than our southern neighbor; but I'm convinced now that that that supposed moral superiority is crap. When I read or watch about canadians fighting - and dying - in WW1 and 11, I am proud. Very. My pride ends there. Since then our military budget has basically been pared down to a joke and our un-grateful defense relegated to the US, "they won't let us get blowed up, I'm sure".

"You Americans, so much blood on your hands. Look at us Canadians... our global mistakes and responsibities ae practically nil"( You Americans will have to tilt your heads up, Ivory towers are tall buggers).

Posted by: CornHolio at January 4, 2005 12:47 AM

AlBaraa, Islam is not a complicated religion. Contrary to the canard so cleverly inserted in the unholy Qur'an, you don't have to "believe" to understand the shallow, venal, odious message of Islam. Nothing is hidden from us; we can read and comprehend the written word as well as muslims. Whenever we are confused about a particularly obscene sura or Hadith, all we have to do is "ask the Imam." His answer usually confirms what we already knew. By the way, "Ask the Imam" is a great place to learn all about Islam, especially the contempt and hatred it teaches for Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc.
We read the sermons emanting from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the Islamic world every week. They are quite revealing. So are the articles that Mr. Spencer posts here, many of which are written by prominent Islamic scholars. And you think we don't understand Islam?! We also read the thoughts and ambitions of the intrepid Islamic holy warriors, those peaceful muslims who follow your satanic prophet's example and revel in beheading innocent victims in the name of allah, whose lives are dedicated to carnage, cruelty, and human suffering. Islam is not at all complicated; it was designed for illiterate, superstitious Bedouins. It doesn't require any special talent to recognize pure evil when you see it.
Islam is the most primitive and barbaric of all religions, and savagery is really not a complicated mentality. Messy, but simple.
No, all muslims aren't savages but let's be honest, if they were true, devout muslims they would be. We know that it is every muslim's duty to spread Islam by violent jihad if necessary, to convert, enslave, or kill all non-muslims, to eradicate all other religions and implement Sharia throughout the world. We also know all about taquiya, kitman, and the rest of Islam's deceptive tactics. We know that muslims consider themselves superior to all other people, and consider us "filthy" , unworthy of their friendship, charity, or compassion. Superior?! That is so hilarious I almost choke every time I think about it. If muslims are superior to everyone else, why are they the poorest, most illiterate, backwards, stagnated, retrograde people on the planet?
Islam has not produced anything of worth in its fourteen hundred year history. Muslims flee Islamic countries for the decadent West and then congregate and collude to destroy the best thing that ever happened to them. Superior?! I think not. I think muslims are most ignorant people on earth, mired in the 7th century; brainwashed with delusions of grandeur and superiority, totally paralyzed by the mere suggestion of serious introspection; and terrified that Islam will be scrutinized and exposed in all its malevolent gloom.
In Islam, the word "peace" applies only to muslims. In Islam, there is no love, no hope, no joy, no beauty, no spontaneity, and there will never be any peace.
Maybe we understand Islam better than you.

Posted by: Susanp at January 4, 2005 1:00 AM

Oh dear Al-Baraa;

I awoke from from my sleep thinking you would have actually tried to make some attempt at answering my misgivings with regards to Islam.

How dissapointed I was to find the same old, well worn out lines; "Its not what it says in the Arabic..." "You need to know the 'Tafseer' behind a verse..."

Well, Here's Sura 9:5 in Arabic; And I've given the transliteration below;-

فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

"Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumu faoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohum waohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadin fa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalata waatawoo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun"

The Arabic word translated to "slay" (as in "fight and slay the pagans") is فَاقْتُلُواْ or "faoqtuloo" which believe it or not Al-baraa the scholars have translated correctly. It means, plain and simply 'kill' not 'battle against them in an inward struggle' and we here on Jihad Watch have a slight problem with that.

Regards,

Kc

Posted by: kc England at January 4, 2005 3:54 AM

And here is the 'Tafsir'

Regards Al-Baraa;

Kc

Posted by: kc England at January 4, 2005 4:01 AM

As I always stress when the debate centers around the necessity of a candid interchange of ideas to sort out the differences between two opossing viewpoints, there must be a common ground of understanding to begin with.

According to it, when it comes to Islam, dialoge is not a practical possibility simply because, as this Al-Baara guy points out, if you cannot speak arabic there's no way you can ever understand anything about it. He of course misses the point that only a tiny percentage of Muslims know that language at all, which immediatley disqualifies them as true, trustworthy believers, insofar as their faith is based upon ignorance.

The same happens to any of us kuffar trying to get into de muysteries of a religion reserved to the priviledged ones who master Mo's lenguage.

As a consequence of this language barrier, we have to rely on some sort of translation to grasp even the rudiments of Allh's message and what Al-Baara proposes is to listen to him for that purpose. Why him, I ask. I regularily consult a translation made by a dovout moslem and even so have reached the conclussion that Mo was a psycopath of the likes of Jim Jones and that Waco guy named David Koreish (or something like that) who at the end brought havoc upon their silly faithful.

Having renounced to the Catholic faith I learned as a child, I am in a neutral position to evaluate religion as a whole and distinguish between the malign and bening specimen of this group. Want to know the rule I apply? Listen to it, Al-Baara:

DON NOT DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE DONE BY.

It is a simple, fair enough rule that when applied to Christianity and to Islam yields opposite conclussions: the former is of the benign kind while the latter is exposed as a destructive cult worth been destructed itself for the sake of humanity.

Posted by: Cid Campeador at January 4, 2005 5:10 AM

'Just as a note to people, if you say that you have read the Quran, but have not read and understood the arabic, then you havent read much at all. The Quran itself cannot be translated, What you may have read in english is the translation of the interpretation, in which thigns also get lost in translation if things arent further explained.' ~AlBaraa

So... we are expected to accept Your translation / interpretation?

Further, anyone who has not grown up reading and thinking in arabic- especially, I would imagine, the arabic the Koran was originally written in- they are going to automatically translate it into their own language in their mind. So they will never get it right, according to your argument.

If this is the case, should not islam keep to itself, and Not seek to convert? By word of mouth or force of arms.

And it just occurred to me.... these faithful who are running around sawing off people's heads. Are they also getting wrong because they didn't grow up speaking and thinking in arabic?
Or is there something Majorly Wrong with your argument?

Posted by: Gary at January 4, 2005 7:58 AM

Remember when the Columbia space shuttle came apart over Palestine Texas and some in the middle east tried to attibute it to a sign from Allah or some such?

Posted by: Maple_Leaf_Forever at January 4, 2005 12:38 PM

AlBaraa - Let's but throught all the Moose droppings here: I have a couple questions for you, seeing as you practice the Islamic faith:

Why are so many Muslims committing terrorist acts outside of Muslim lands? Why are some Muslims also targeting other Muslims in terrorist acts within their own lands?

Also, I would be interested in your opinion of our "Prophet" Saviour, Jesus Christ, and your Prophet, Mohammed.

Our prophet spread the word of peace, he did not wage wars, but as I understand it yours did. Do you not see the fundamental difference there?

Does the Koran teach all of these Muslims to commit terrorist acts? Yes or no would suffice.

Posted by: Maple_Leaf_Forever at January 4, 2005 12:58 PM

AlBaraa -

I don't know if you will be back, however I would like to take you up on the Muslim statement that the Bible was changed many times. Evidence please? I know that the oldest complete manuscripts for the NT date from the 5th century, and the way the bible was put together was not beyond criticism (in my opinion), however the earliest known fragments of the NT do not show any sign of "changes". As for the Jewish texts of the OT, these are well authenticated by the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Unfortunately many here are tired of the vague "off-the-shelf" excuses: "meaning gets lost in the translation" and "don't judge Islam by the acts of terrorists". If Islam is the greatest inspirer of terrorism on this planet, and those same terrorists draw justification for their actions from the Koran, is it not natural that we draw a link between Islam and terror?

I do understand that translation can be a problem. (For example in Bengali, "cold" words have a positive resonance. English expressions like "a cold stare" "icy reception" and "chilling", translate very badly into Bengali.) However all such cultural and linguistic differences can be explained, it would be interesting for an Arabic scholar to really dissect some of the more hostile parts of the Koran, and tell us how and why we are reading it wrongly, giving a precise explanation of "double meanings" and cultural variances. The English language has more words than any other language (source = Guinness Book of Records) so I cannot accept that English is an inadequate medium for explaining the complexities of Arabic.

I think you posted here thinking that we were a set of very ignorant people that know nothing about the complexities of your religion, which is why you gave us such a basic introduction, as if you were addressing children. There are some extremely erudite people here that really want, would understand and welcome in-depth explanations, and certainly don’t want the worn out and unsubstantiated generalities that all Muslims fob us off with.

It is my belief that Islam is so incredibly flawed and negative that it can't stand up to any historical, scientific, social or ethical scrutiny. Your "prophet" knew this, which is why he warned against befriending or debating with non-believers.

Please do not interpret our unkind words about your religion as a sign of ignorance or that you are not welcome here. Yes, I have often said that I hate Muslims, the same as I hate Stalinists, Maoists or Nazis, yet I do not believe that such hate is either unjustified or racist, because I believe Islam to be violent and intolerant, however I am not averse to anybody who wishes to challenge this with reasoned debate. In fact, most of us here are so amazed by the terrible nature of Islam and Islamic society, that we would be quite fascinated by any Muslim who made an honest and detailed attempt to answer our criticisms.

Don't take everything here to heart. It's an open forum. There are some people that post here (mostly Americans) who simply enjoy spitting on foreigners of all descriptions, be they Europeans, Mexicans, Canadians, and of course the evil “Liberals” and I suspect that their Islamophobia is simply a facet of their inflated national pride and xenophobia, nevertheless these are in a minority, so please don’t let them cloud other serious and sincere questions. I myself have been told several times that I’m not welcome here beacuse I have hit back at certain "God Bless America" posts, but they don’t run the website and it’s not worth taking it to heart.

There are some real scholars here (excluding myself) and I would ask you to stick around and try to answer their questions – if you can.

Posted by: Timbo at January 4, 2005 4:17 PM

Strangely enough, more than a week after the tsunami in the Indian Ocean, the left-wing, Israel-hating ‘pacifists’ have not yet figured out how the Mossad did it.

I only found a couple of blogs for terminal addicts (Democratic Underground, Indymedia etc.) discussing the likelihood that US nuclear tests precipitated the quake, but in general even al-Jazeera and other openly jihadist websites - where Israel is normally held responsible for AIDS, war, terrorism and adulterous women - have not yet accused Israel of a plot to surreptitiously push the Eurasian plate further under the Indian plate so as to strengthen the Jewish stranglehold on humanity.

Give them time, I say. Conspiracy theorists will not be deterred by the apparently a-political nature of geophysics. Wait a minute, wasn’t it some Jew who invented that discipline?

Posted by: martyr maker at January 4, 2005 6:53 PM

This could be why the mussis were killed by the Killer Wave and the Earthquake!!!

How could this be??

December 24, 2004
Christians in Indonesia to avoid churches at Xmas-time
More news from "moderate" Indonesia. From Straits Times, with thanks to Nicolei:
JAKARTA - FEARS of attacks by Islamic militants are forcing some Christians in Indonesia to abandon traditional churches in favour of more discreet and secure venues this Christmas.
With foreign governments warning of holiday terror bombings, thousands of churches in major Indonesian cities will hold services this year in office buildings, hotels and even movie theatres, church leaders say.
'It puts us at a lower risk of being a target for religious persecution,' said Pastor Steve Lunn, originally from Seattle, whose International English Service holds services for 1,000 people in a downtown Jakarta office building.
'People tell me they feel safer,' he said.
'The facility itself is not the most important thing. It's just a place to gather. The most important thing is being together and worshipping God together.'
Indonesia, a sprawling archipelago of more than 13,000 islands and 210 million people, is the world's most populous Muslim nation.
The vast majority of Muslims practise a moderate version of the faith.
Sure they do. That's why Christians are meeting for Christmas in movie theaters.
And the idea that Christians should have second-class status, a traditional concept of Islamic law, is alive and well there:
But attacks against Christians, who make up just 8 per cent of the population, have become more frequent since ex-dictator Suharto's downfall in 1998, and amid a global rise in Islamic radicalism. Mr Suharto enforced secularism as part of national security policies....
'People are still afraid,' said Pastor Hengki Ompi, whose church was attacked earlier this month by suspected Muslim gunmen on the central Indonesian island of Sulawesi.
'We hope the attacks stop so we can celebrate Christmas without fear.'
Plans to build new churches are sometimes met with violent protests from Islamic groups, which view them as an attempt to convert Muslims.
Church leaders also say a decree requiring religious leaders to get neighbourhood approval before building new places of worship is being used to discriminate against them.
Some church leaders say these obstacles are understandable, given the country's Muslim majority, and acknowledge that Muslims face similar problems in the few pockets of Indonesia where Christians dominate.
But others say the restrictions reflect a growing intolerance of religious minorities.
'We have a lot more liberties than say Afghanistan and Pakistan...but the fact is that Christians are second-class citizens,' said Pastor Bill Heckman, a Dutchman who has tried for six years to build a church in Jakarta....
Muslims say evangelical Christians are partly to blame for rising religious tensions.
They say hundreds of foreign-funded evangelical groups are using churches in Muslim-dominated neighbourhoods to convert locals - a claim some Christians acknowledge is true.
In response, the government has proposed a law that would bar Indonesians from attending religious ceremonies that do not reflect their faith - making it harder for them to switch.
It would also criminalise inter-faith marriages and adoptions.
Posted at December 24, 2004 12:22 PM
How many went to a service and were saved from the killer wave and Earthquake??

COULD THIS BE WHY SO MANY MULSUMS HAD TO DIE??

December 24, 2004
Indonesia: Machete gang attacks preacher
Jihad against Christians continues in "moderate" Indonesia. From AAP, with thanks to Twostellas:
A CHRISTIAN preacher has been attacked and badly wounded by a machete-wielding gang on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi despite a massive security operation intended to curb sectarian blood-letting and terror attacks during Christmas.
Reverend Jemri Tambalino was in critical condition after the attack by three men in the coastal town of Poso, which has been a major battleground between the Muslim majority and Christian minority.
The preacher, who was riding a motorbike, suffered deep slash wounds to his neck and face.
A friend travelling with Rev Tambalino was also attacked, with injuries to his hand, a hospital spokesman said.
More than 1000 people have been killed in the area over four years of sectarian fighting.
A recent report by the Brussels-based International Crisis Group warned extremists linked to the Jemaah Islamiah terror network were using the area as a recruiting ground....
At the main Catholic Cathedral in Jakarta, metal detectors had been installed ahead of Christmas Eve services, and hundreds of paramilitary police were expected to be placed outside this afternoon....
Reverend Natan Setiabudi, chairman of the Indonesian Communion of Churches, said Christians "do not feel totally secure", particularly since the Palu attacks showed violence "could happen anytime, anywhere".
Posted at December 24, 2004 12:04 PM
COULD THIS BEE WHY SO MANY MULSUMS DIED IN INDONISA??

A. E. Vacalopoulos summarized the devastating impact of five centuries of Seljuk and Ottoman jihad campaigns in Asian Minor and the Balkans (Vacalopoulos, A.E. Origins of the Greek Nation-The Byzantine Period, 1204-1461, New Brunswick, N.J., 1970, pp. 61, 68; 72-73):

“At the beginning of the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks forced their way into Armenia and there crushed the armies of several petty Armenian states. No fewer than forty thousand souls fled before the organized pillage of the Seljuk host to the western part of Asia Minor. From the middle of the eleventh century, and especially after the battle of Malazgirt [Manzikurt] (1071), the Seljuks spread throughout the whole Asia Minor peninsula, leaving error, panic and destruction in their wake. Byzantine, Turkish and other contemporary sources are unanimous in their agreement on the extent of havoc wrought an the protracted anguish of the local population…[The Greek chronicler] Kydones described the fate of the Christian peoples of Asia Minor thus:

‘The entire region which sustained us, from the Hellespont eastwards to the mountains of Armenia, has been snatched away. They [the Turks] have razed cities, pillaged churches, opened graves, and filled everything with blood and corpses…Alas, too, they have even abused Christian bodies. And having taken away their entire wealth they have now taken away their freedom, reducing them to the merest shadows of slaves. And with such dregs of energy as remain in these unfortunate people, they are forced to be the servitors of the Turk’s personal comforts.’

“From the time the Ottoman Turks first set foot in Thrace under Suleiman, son of Orchan, the Empire rapidly disintegrated….From the very beginning of the Turkish onslaught under Suleiman, the Turks tried to consolidate their position by the forcible imposition of Islam. [The Ottoman historian] Sukrullah [maintained] those who refused to accept the Moslem faith were slaughtered and their families enslaved. ‘Where there were bells’, writes the same author, ‘Suleiman broke them up and cast them onto fires. Where there are churches he destroyed them or converted them into mosques. Thus, in place of bells there were now muezzins. Wherever Christian infidels were still found, vassalage was imposed upon their rulers. At least in public they could no longer say ‘kyrie eleison’ but rather “There is no God but Allah; and where once their prayers had been addressed to Christ, they were now to ‘Mohammed, the prophet of Allah.’ ”

E.G. Browne (A Literary History of Persia, Vol. III, 1928, p. 196) describes the jihad depredations of Timur [Tamerlane] against the Christian populations of Georgia and Asia Minor, at the outset of the 15th century (A Literary History of Persia, Vol. III, Cambridge, 1928, p. 196):

“The winter of A.D. 1399-1400 was spent by Timur in Qarabagh near the Araxes, and ere spring had melted the snows he once more invaded [Christian] Georgia, devastated the country, destroyed the churches and monasteries, and slew great numbers of the inhabitants. In August, 1400, he began his march into Asia Minor by way of Avnik, Erzeroum, Erzinjan, and Sivas. The latter place offered stubborn resistance, and when it finally capitulated Timur caused all the Armenian and Christian soldiers to the number of four thousand to be buried alive; but the Muhammadans he spared.”

10. John Cartwright, British Consul-General in Constantinople, filed the following report from Constantinople May 25, 1822 (in, Argenti, Philip. The Massacres of Chios, Described in Contemporary Diplomatic Reports, London, 1932, pp. 39-40.)
“Scio [Chios], with the exception of twenty five of the Mastic Villages, was a complete scene of desolation – the air corrupted by the stench of dead bodies had produced an infectious disorder on board the Turkish Fleet which was daily carrying off its’ victims. The fate of the unhappy survivors in the Sciote tragedy is miserable indeed – the females and children doomed to slavery from which there will be but little chance of redemption, as all possible means are taken to prevent the sale of them to Christians. The hostages who were confined in the Castle of Scio as well as those who were here have been put to death.”

IS THE PAST SO DIFFERENT FROM TODAY??

So all the money you are giving is wasted!!!

REMEMBER BAM IRAN DIDN'T HAVE BEACHES!!! JUST FAMILY OF ubl [YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY]

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Stay the course to Crush ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Courage to Stand and Fight them Amen

Posted by: Catherine at January 4, 2005 7:49 PM

I came back in here to see if there were any words from our Muslim friend, but no. Can't say I'm surprised. How do you defend the indefensible?

..............

"...empty your tea cup. Leave all preconcieved [sic] ideas behind and come to learn about it with a naked heart."

We're still waiting AlBaraa - empty tea cups in hands.

............................................

"Let a spider run alive and you will surely thrive."

"Peace hath her victories no less renowned than war"
"For what can war but endless war still breed?"
From the letters John Milton, regarding the English Civil War.

"He that makes a good war makes a good peace"
George Herbert

"The quickest way to end a war is to lose it." George Orwell.

"My fellow citizens of the world; ask not what America will do for you but what together we can do for the freedom of man." John F. Kennedy

"America, thou half brother of the world; with something good and bad of every land." Philip James Bailey

"Ultima Ratio Regum"
Inscription on the cannon of Louis XIV, Translation = "Argument of Kings", viz. Cannon or War.

"A bayonet is a weapon with a worker at each end." Socialist slogan

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." St Mathew

Amen

.........

Posted by: Timbo at January 4, 2005 11:32 PM

How imbecilic of them, Indonesia has the highest death toll out of all the countries affected.... now isn't Indonesia a majority muslim country???

Posted by: Rikki at January 5, 2005 6:59 AM

"My fellow citizens of the world; ask not what America will do for you but what together we can do for the freedom of man." John F. Kennedy

Posted by: Timbo at January 4, 2005 11:32 PM

I think it was
Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your COUNTRY!!!

God Bless the Countries who have Heros Amen
Pity the countries who need them??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

PS
The Spider will never get away we are on the HUNT and will not give up or Waver!!

Posted by: Catherine at January 5, 2005 4:53 PM

Catherine,

Yes he did say that. The line I quoted was what he said just after the line you quoted. Same speech, but less well known.

They shot him anyway...

Posted by: Timbo at January 6, 2005 12:09 AM

AlBarra, if you're going to run and hide behind the hackneyed "the Qur'an cannot be translated" excuse, please explain something to me. The Qur'an was written in ancient Arabic. There are many words in the Qur'an that NOBODY can decipher, not even the most talented lexicologists. IF you're an Arab, do you speak and write in Medieval Arabic? Are you trained to transliterate ancient Arabic, or do you rely on Islamic scholars to sort it all out for you? Or maybe today's Qur'ans are written in modern Arabic and the undecipherable text in the original version, or should I say the final (Uthman's) version, was simply omitted to avoid confusion.
Every language can be translated but for the sake of argument, since the majority of muslims are not Arabic speakers, how can they practice Islam if they cannot read the Qur'an? I know many non-Arab speaking muslims memorize the Qur'an in Arabic, but they don't have a clue what they are memorizing. What a futile endeavor!
If you want to discuss corrupted holy texts, let's talk about who wrote the Qur'an. I would love to hear your response to that.

Posted by: Susanp at January 6, 2005 1:20 AM