Very well written article. The Jews and the western world are always to blame for the bad things happening to the muslim world. Islam teaches death, while Christianity teaches life. The Islamic world would do nothing, but kill a Christian. But, isn't it amazing how Islamists love the western world's money? America was called, " stingy " when it announced 36 million dollars of aid would go to the tsunami victims. When, it actual fact, billions of dollars will be spent. If the Islamic world had a bit more interest in technology, MAYBE a few more people could have survived the tsunami. Muslims are taught to not help Christians. Christians are taught to give from the heart and to " love one another." What is wrong with this picture? There was a reason behind the tsunami,but most likely not what what many muslims may believe.

Posted by: flameon1 at January 7, 2005 12:00 PM

OT:
After you've perused today's Jihad and Dhimmi Watches, check out today's collection of articles at FrontPageMag.com - there's an above average number of excellent articles in today's edition:

"Tower of Babble" By Jamie Glazov
In a Frontpage Exclusive, Dore Gold discusses how the U.N. has fueled global chaos.
(I've read the book - it's excellent)

"Bankrupting Terror" By Joel Mowbray
Lawyers suing the Saudis for $1 trillion are now taking on Arab Bank.

"Europe -- Thy Name Is Cowardice" By Matthias Dopfner
The deadly cost of appeasement.

"The Silent Muslim Majority IS the Problem" By Nonie Darwish
American Muslims do and say nothing about the Arab world's brutal human rights violations.

"The Price of Peace" By JINSA.org
What America must pay to win the terror war.

"Mandate to Kill" By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook
On PA TV, a Palestinian educator says the killing of Jews is mandatory.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/

Posted by: Mike at January 7, 2005 12:08 PM

The so-called "Proof of Islam", al-Ghazali nailed the last nail in the coffin for rational thought in Islam, when he went so far as to deny that cause-and-effect even exist.

See: http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1994/PSCF3-94Aulie.html

Al-Ghazali Contra Aristotle:
An Unforeseen Overture to Science In Eleventh-Century Baghdad

Posted by: fides at January 7, 2005 12:29 PM

Re the Saudi cleric's statement ..."Allah struck them with an earthquake. He finished off the Richter Scale," he added. "All nine levels gone."

Would someone here please explain - my mind altering drug supply vanished long ago.

Posted by: johnb at January 7, 2005 12:55 PM

9.0 is not the strongest earthquake ever recorded. It's a very massive quake, but it's not nearly as strong as the 9.6 quake that hit Alaska in 1964. Each 1/10th of a point on the Richter scale signifies that it is 100 times stronger than the preceding point.

A 9.1 is one hundred times stronger than a 9.0. So imagine exponentially how many times stronger a 9.6 is than a 9.0.

This guy does not understand anything about either earthquakes or the Richter scale. Just a mullah mumbling idiocies to himself. And how does he even begin to explain why Allah chose to punish the evil Christians by killing 90,000 Muslims? Because the Muslims were being punished for not killing Christians fast enough?

And what does he think of the new plan for a tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean? Should it be destroyed for trying to thwart Allah's will?

Posted by: Suzan at January 7, 2005 1:07 PM

Posted by: fides at January 7, 2005 12:29 PM
Re the Saudi cleric's statement ..."Allah struck them with an earthquake. He finished off the Richter Scale," he added. "All nine levels gone."

Would someone here please explain - my mind altering drug supply vanished long ago.

Posted by: johnb at January 7, 2005 12:55 PM

johnb:

That's just the Saudi cleric's scientifically illiterate alluding to the quake that caused the tsunami hit nine on the Richter Scale.

I note to other JW bloggers the "controversy" being raised through the media about the failure of countries pledging disaster relief aid to live up to their commitments. CBC Radio this a.m. talked about it in the context of Bam, Iran. Could this shortfall, perhaps, have something to do with the fact that the mullahs seem to have the money to develop nuclear armaments but not for the reconstruction of Bam (never mind the hideous human rights abuses).

Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 7, 2005 1:10 PM

Mike Gold Star for you today!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
Loved this Stroy!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16565
Europe -- Thy Name Is Cowardice
By Matthias Dopfner
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 7, 2005
A few days ago Henryk M. Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe -- your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to agreements. Appeasement stabilized communism in the Soviet Union and East Germany in that part of Europe where inhuman, suppressive governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo and we Europeans debated and debated until the Americans came in and did our work for us.
Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians. Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore 300,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, to issue bad grades to George Bush. A particularly grotesque form of appeasement is reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere by suggesting that we should really have a Muslim holiday in Germany.

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians and directed against our free, open Western societies. It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than the great military conflicts of the last century -- a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by tolerance and accommodation but only spurred on by such gestures, which will be mistaken for signs of weakness.

Two recent American presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. Reagan ended the Cold War and Bush, supported only by the social democrat Blair acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic fight against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China. On the contrary-we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to the intolerant, as world champions in tolerance, which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy-because everything is at stake.

While the alleged capitalistic robber barons in American know their priorities, we timidly defend our social welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive. We'd rather discuss the 35-hour workweek or our dental health plan coverage. Or listen to TV pastors preach about "reaching out to murderers." These days, Europe reminds me of an elderly aunt who hides her last pieces of jewelry with shaking hands when she notices a robber has broken into a neighbor's house. Europe, thy name is cowardice.

"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 1:13 PM

In Aceh there has been a concerted effort by Muslims to erase the Christians from their area including church burnings, killings and all other ****TYPICAL**** Muslim behavior toward Christians. Now our Lord has brought upon them what they had planned for His children...the Christians. While they worship in their mosque all they can smell is rotting corpses....a fitting smell to fill a mosque for the typical heinous acts of Islam from an article:

"Muslims in Banda Aceh attended Friday prayers at the main mosque for the first time since it was used as a morgue in the aftermath of the tsunami. Worshippers sat cross-legged on the marble floor as the preacher said the disaster may have been punishment from Allah for "forgetting him and his teachings."

The smell of rotting corpses, thousands of which are still uncollected, wafted through the five-domed Baituraman mosque, which dates to 1614. Thousands of troops and volunteers from around Indonesia have been working to clean up the grounds.

"We Muslims are gathered here today to show the country and the world that we still exist," preacher Din Syamsuddin told around 2,000 worshippers."

Yes I agree with Ummagumma. The Muslims better get a Bible and read about the true God:

Proverbs 6:16 There are six things the LORD hates, namely typical Muslim behavior--sounds like Bin Ladin and Zarqawi to a T,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies

and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

This is what will happen to them if they don't stop killing Christians:

3The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

4The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say: “You are just in these judgments,
you who are and who were, the Holy One,
because you have so judged; 6for they have shed the blood of your saints and prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.” 7And I heard the altar respond: “Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgments.”

They are under judgment for attacking, raping, murdering, mutilating and planning total genocide of Christians in their area...making orphans of Christian children. Now everything they had planned for the Christians has come upon them. When the Christians were being decimated and hunted down in Indonesia and Christian churches razed in Aceh, the world didn't shed a tear or take notice or lift a finger to help them. They made a bad choice in attacking Christians. And having chosen Islam they chose ignorance and poverty and were unable and unwilling to set up their own tsunami warning system. It is very sad to see little children dying and suffering because of the unwise and murderous choices their Muslim leaders made. However, you can see the difference between Christianity and Islam now: the Christians are sending aid and giving aid to *ALL*--even the ones who had planned to kill them while the Muslims are afraid to send aid because it might help "infidels".

Posted by: Abby at January 7, 2005 2:06 PM

All the money spent on providing aid to our enemies---the Muslim survivors of the sunami---is a complete waste. Muslims replicate just as fast as other third worlders, and will make up for the current loss in less than 1 year. Let their Arab "brothers"---the Saudis, the Syrians, the Kuwaitis, et al---finance the U.N.'s humanitarian effort. Instead of competing with each other for the title of the most generous donor, Western countries should spend the money to secure their borders, enforce immigration laws, and clamp down on their Muslim populations.

Muslims are just hopeless. There's no point wasting resources to civilize them.

Posted by: natskvi at January 7, 2005 2:44 PM

I'm very disheartened to hear of the plan to now allow the U N to head up the relief effort.I can just visualize the top bananas of that organization rubbing their thieving hands together and dancing a little jig of joy at the prospect of lining their own pockets with some of that loot.What a shame,what a shame.

Posted by: krkrjak at January 7, 2005 3:24 PM

I thought the point of this thread was "...that modern science did not and could not have developed in an Islamic context because the idea that the universe operated according to discernable laws violated the Islamic notion of Allah's absolute sovereignty and freedom..."

The real point here is that in Islam cause and effect do not exist.

In their minds secondary causes do not exist, there are no rules of the universe to be discovered, everything that happens happens because of the whim of allah, who micro-manages the universe, and who can change the rules at any time. When you drop a rock on your toe, that pain you feel does not happen because the rock hit your toe, that pain happens because allah made it happen. When fire touches cotton, the cotton doesn't burn because of the fire, the cotton burns because allah is destroying cotton molecules and replacing them with fire and ash, like some sort of cheap parlor trick.

Because of this inability to limit allah, muslim theology must always reject cause and effect, and therefore science can never develop.

Posted by: fides at January 7, 2005 3:35 PM

Hey, wait a second. Who does this Muslim jerkweed think he is? I never, ever dance when I'm drunk. He better get his story straight, or I'll throw pig poo on his sandals......

Posted by: DCWatson at January 7, 2005 3:49 PM

Also see this very interesting paper:

Christianity: A Cause of Modern Science?
The Duhem-Jaki and Merton Theses Explained

http://www.rae.org/jaki.html

(Ignore the Creationist website, the paper makes some good points).

Topics include:

- THE PHILOSOPHICAL IDEAS A CULTURE MUST AVOID TO DEVELOP SCIENCE
- WHY DIDN'T THE ISLAMIC/ARAB WORLD DEVELOP SCIENCE BEFORE CHRISTENDOM?
- THE COST OF LACKING BALANCE CONCERNING THE IDEAS OF THE GREEK CLASSICS
- HOW MUHAMMAD'S VIEW OF GOD'S WILL UNDERMINED ISLAMIC SCIENCE

Posted by: fides at January 7, 2005 3:53 PM

I’m impressed with the knowledge of history by some of the writers here. First the kiss of death by the 11th century Islamic philosopher: Al-Ghazali. He fought against the influence of Aristotle and the Hellenic culture. Out went natural explanation and in came mysticism. He argued against rational thought and natural law, in his book, “The Incoherence of the Philosophers.” His attack on causality is unrelenting. By the way, he is also credited with acceptance of Sufism among Muslims.

The greatest of all Arab philosophers, Averroes, defended Aristotle in his reply to Al-Ghazali: “The Incoherence of the Incoherence.” He also clarified Aristotle’s writings by separating some neo-Platonic writings that were lumped together with Aristotle’s. However, he was banished, his books burned, and he had little further influence among Muslims. He did, however, influence Christians.

Under the genius of Aquinas, Averroes and Aristotle were championed and reconciled with Christianity. This set the stage for the return to scientific culture that reached its climax, philosophically speaking, in the Enlightenment.

It is interesting that the article describes the Enlightenment view of Deism and contrasts that with Islam. Many of our founding fathers were Deists. I’d like to suggest to the many Christian readers that they explore the Deist influence and note how it helped Christianity avoid the anti-science pitfalls of Islam.

Posted by: JasonP at January 7, 2005 4:02 PM

Abby;
Great post, and wise use of Scripture.

As I've stated before, I stand amazed at the Clerics assesment of this situation.

One of the greatest tradegies this world has seen hits the largest Muslim country on earth, and (let me get this right) it's Allahs judgement on the unbelievers?
Doh!

Well heres this Reformed, Evangelical, Charismatics two penneth;
I think it's part Judgement, and big part "the earth groaning" in the end times awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Simple as.

Regards everyone,
Kc

Posted by: kc England at January 7, 2005 4:02 PM

DC;
Hello there friend; How've you been??

Kc.

Posted by: kc England at January 7, 2005 4:06 PM

Hey, wait a second. Who does this Muslim jerkweed think he is? I never, ever dance when I'm drunk. He better get his story straight, or I'll throw pig poo on his sandals......

Posted by: DCWatson at January 7, 2005 03:49 PM

LOL

Gold Star for you today!!

Part of the Amerivan Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGTH WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
And ABBY TOO!!

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 4:12 PM

Catherine,

You asked me question on another thread, I'm going to post the answer here so you can see it.

Catherine,

You asked the following:

"You answer you would go to jail and you are Fighting but will you really Fight if need be??"

My answer:

I'm more hard core than you will ever be. I appreciate your question, but if a person is willing to put themselves in the forefront of a site like this and to get people organized and mobilized, then that person better be able and willing to defend themselves if neccessary.

When I put my name and information out for the public view, I put myself on the line. I get at least 7 death threats a day because of this.

I passed them along to the other posters so they could see first hand what we're dealing with.
I'm not a saint, a martyr or a fool, but neither a coward.

I haven't backed off an inch.

And while I have defended your right to post whatever you want, and this is not personal, but don't question my motives. Sometimes, you jump the gun.

Posted by: susan_b at January 7, 2005 4:26 PM

If ever you care to be at home and away at the same time, which seems only possible for a good Moslem, too bad for the rest of us, you might try the Islamic Republic of Phlogistan, where Aristotle has been superceded by the last and greatest prohet of Islamic science, al-Ghazali. I is, I hear, paradise, where American money grows on trees, where Western technology fills the shops, where men can spend the whole day and all of the night praising Allah and shaving their pubic hair. Of course, it's not exactly perfect. So far the Saud family still run the place, but soon it's likey to be taken over by real Moslems, and then it wil definitely be the next best thing to the right hand seat by Allah himself. Man, did I get cheated when my parents turned me into an apostate. Now it looks like I'll never taste the fruits of Phlogistan. Stuck in the West. Bummer.

Posted by: sonofwalker at January 7, 2005 4:33 PM

http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/This_Week/BorderPatrolAsksForFences.htm
BORDER PATROL ASKS FOR
SECONDARY FENCES IN NACO, DOUGLAS AND YUMA

In an effort to secure populated areas better, Border Patrol officials are requesting secondary fencing in the Douglas, Naco and Yuma areas of the U.S.- Mexico border.
The plan includes building 12 foot sections of secondary fencing about 60 feet north of the existing fencing, creating a virtual trap that would allow agents to respond quickly to groups trapped in the space between the two lines of fencing.
According to Border Patrol Tucson Sector Public Information Officer Andrea Zortman, the agency has only made a request for a second environmental impact study. It does not mean the agency is even close to getting the fencing, which was originally requested in 2001. Congress has not appropriated any funding for the project.
Andrea Zortman told the Tumbleweed that the Border Patrol agents could respond quickly to groups crossing the primary fence by detecting them on camera, then moving to the area before the crossers could manage to get through the secondary fence.
“Now we detect them as they get over the primary fence but they run into the brush and agents are forced to chase them. Securing the area with a secondary fence would require less manpower and still decrease illegal crossings near populated areas of the border. The plan would free up agents to work the remote areas that flank towns like Naco, Douglas and Yuma.”
Zortman said although it would be nice to get the second line of fencing, there are other requests for actually extending the length of the primary fence, adding more lighting, cameras and better roads that would allow agents to respond more quickly in the remote areas where groups cross illegally.
“We have added a lot in the area and we are more effective with the technology. The camera poles along the Naco sector line have been extremely effective, said Zortman.
Many heavily traveled trails used by human smugglers have been virtually shut down as a result of 11 new camera towers erected on BLM, private and state land along the Naco corridor east to the Coronado National Park.
Smugglers have adjusted by creating new routes that circumvent the towers, each of which is equipped with two day and two night vision cameras.
Zortman reports that from October 1, the start of the agency’s fiscal year, agents working in the Naco corridor have apprehended 37,175 people illegally crossing the border. 74,791 people have been caught in the entire Tucson sector that covers most of the Arizona border from New Mexico to near Yuma, Arizona

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

PS
Snow in L.V. and lot's of rain in Ohio Wonder how many mulsums are there???

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 4:51 PM

No Susan I just want you to get a Gun I know what you are doing You have miss what I was Trying to say you should know by now I don't Always Speak Clearly!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with Her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage Amen

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 4:55 PM

FIDES and JASONP, It IS exciting, isn't it?

BUT:

Thomas Acquinas was a neo-Platonist, and as such, his views were completely in sync with the views of the Church, which also had a neo-Platonic viewpoint.

The Church began to get nervous about all those university students in Italy and France who were reading and getting excited about the new translations out of Toledo of Ibn Rushd's commentaries on Aristotle.

Thomas then went to the barricades and began his effort to reconcile the viewpoint of Aristotle with that of the Church. In the process, he found out he was a "closet Aristotelian." He was fascinated by Aristotle's thoughts, especially the "cleaned up" versions supplied by Ibn Rushd. Despite his best efforts, however, he was never able to reconcile Aristotle and neo-platonism.

After all, it was the original argument about epistemology way back when Plato was Aristotle's teacher that caused the two to go their separate ways, and it was eventually Plato's argument about concept formation that was transformed by Plotinus from an EPISTEMOLOGICAL issue into a THEOLOGICAL issue, and the rest is history.

The point is, that Acquinas could no more reconcile Aristotle with neo-Platonism than Aristotle himself could ever become reconciled with Plato himself. The gulf that separated them and their philosophical descendants was simply insupperable. Either A is A or it isn't.

Posted by: cubed at January 7, 2005 5:21 PM

Catherine,

You know I love you! And, NO, I'm not flirtin!

It's ok, sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what someone means when you can't see their expressions.

But, you don't have to worry about me, I'm more than covered.

Posted by: susan_b at January 7, 2005 5:28 PM

Catherine,

Very interesting post about the secondary fence. Great idea, too.

Does anyone out there think that, in addition to things like this secondary fence, the deputizing of private landowners in certain areas to assist the Border Patrol would be a workable idea? They could act a lot like Neighborhood Patrols.

Posted by: cubed at January 7, 2005 5:51 PM

Susan B
I see the Flue is almost gone and hope it stays Away!!

I don't Blame anyone but these MONSTERS and we will forgive ourself for what they make us do Like our Grandparents did in WW2!!

and same back at you!!

SHORT SKIRTS WORTH FIGTHING FOR!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squrirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Amen

PS
They are talking about the chatter is down wonder how many got taken out by the KILLER Wave?? I hear over 120,000 mulsums dead??

and poor nasseem must be on the move or got caught by the wave??

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 5:56 PM

I'm quite interested by the comments of this Cleric. I was listehing to another cleric today who quoted the Quran:

"Is not Allah the wisest of judges?"
95:8

This was interesting in that he condemned muslims who stated that 'Its a good thing that people died in that earthquake as they were all sinners and non muslims.'

His 2 points were:
1. The quote above demonstrates that no man, muslim or not has the right to judge another on their deeds. That is Allah/God's right only.

2. Anyone who thinks that only non-muslims should perish and muslims be graced with paradise are forgetting that we are all sinners and will all be judged. He then related the story of the prostitute who gave a thirsty dog a drink and was granted paradise, whereas a believer who treated their cattle badly were judged to be hell-dwellers. Charity for a dog grants you paradise so what will helping a fellow human bring you?

As this is my first post to this site I hope it gets approved.

Thanks,
Shapps

Posted by: Shapps at January 7, 2005 6:23 PM

Oh to just imagine my two most favorite ladies together at once but since this is just a web-site I'll just pretend.

Both Susan_b, and Catherine(the great) have instilliec in me much knowledge and wisdom since finding this site and have actually opened my eye's to things I would have never thought of.

Thank you ladies for all you do,not just here, but in real life as well to educate the people with the truth.

Now I'll go back to my little imagination.

"The best portion of a good man's (woman's as well) life is the little,nameless,unremembered acts of kindness". (William Wordsworth)

Posted by: Chuck at January 7, 2005 6:35 PM

Susan B just Sent a late Christmas ??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

PS

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/1/5/134005.shtml
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2005 1:40 p.m. EST
New Year, Same Ann Coulter
It's 2005, and Ann Coulter is still Ann Coulter, cuttingly witty, always ready with devastating comments about liberals and Democrats, who she says are pretty much the same, and still capable of inflicting deep wounds in the twisted psyches of both species.

STUFF IN MIDDLE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ON ANOTHER PAGE!!

• On what it was like to spend Christmas in New York - "Oh, it was so much fun this year, because saying ‘Merry Christmas’ is like saying ‘F... you!’ I’ve said it to everyone. You know, cab drivers, passing people on the street, whatever. And they come up with the ‘Happy holidays.’ ‘Merry Christmas,’ I mean, it really is an aggressive act in New York."

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 6:40 PM

cubed

Been going on for a few years but remember our Border Portorl get shou at alot so if you par take know you can open carry in AZ

Here is a sight they are mainly working taking pictures and showing the Joe Six Pac

To Make our CONGRESS GET OFF THEIR ASSES AND PROTECT AMERICA!!

Will get you Started??

http://www.Minutemanproject.com/
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

PS
Now this is not to go down there and start shooting people but in April the weather can be in the 90s to 100s and night chilly and don't be shooten no cows thinking they are bears??

That really pisses people off??
But the snakes are out??

and Little piggie season is over so if some one is shooten take cover!!

Posted by: Catherine at January 7, 2005 6:53 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm posting the Information Project update on the second thread "E-mail problems".

Thanks,
Cranky Susan_b

Posted by: susan_b at January 7, 2005 7:28 PM

Already mullahs are reported on memri as preaching that the tsunami is the wrath of god on the evil satan of america. the fact that it is muslims that have suffered the heaviest in the disater is immaterial to their thinking.
If the Americans and Australians are the ones providing instant help to the victims, it will be portrayed as Allah's will to make them aton for their sins!
Throughout history religions have strived to oppress human Enlightment.
Many years ago, a book i read had a profound influence on me . it has since vanished from my collection and now would be a good time to reread it.
'A canticle for Liebowitz' is an awesome description of the struggle between faith and the freethinking of the human spirit.
Set in a post nuclear disaster world it depicts the clash between the rediscovery of science and the religion. Over centuries monks and their masters struggle to prevent the emergence of scientific discovery , which they believe is the work of the devil and will ultimately lead to another holocaust of humanity.
The scientic discoveries must remaim the property of the faith and written in lavish handritten books. The information forever sealed and kept from the people. Even the invention of printing press is a heresy since it will be used to disseminate the works of satan.

"Domine, libera nos A morte perpetua te rogamus, audi nos"

The fate that awaits us if the pandora's box of freethinking science is allowed to open and shed its darkness on the human race.

The answers to why the Islamic world has remained in the dark ages without evolution are clearly explained in this remarkable book , in which Islam is not even mentioned !

Posted by: george at January 7, 2005 7:32 PM

>SHORT SKIRTS WORTH FIGTHING FOR!!!

I can get behind that!

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at January 7, 2005 8:01 PM

Catherine and Susan_b

Haganah fighting sisters unite in arms! Not going down without a fight! Worried about going to jail?
Not just no, but --

Hell no!!

This is a fight for our civilization -- for our childrens's and grandchildren's freedom. It is a cause worth dying for!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 7, 2005 8:22 PM

A MESSAGE TO THE WORLD AT LARGE:

WE ARE WONDERING HOW THE HELL ANYONE COULD HAVE MISSED THIS-----

VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE EXPLANATIONS OFFERED INCLUDING ROBERT SPENCER'S AND DIANE WEST'S AS TO WHY ISLAM WAS AND STILL IS UNABLE TO PRODUCE A SCIENTIFIC AND ADVANCED CULTURE DO NOT GO NEARLY FAR ENOUGH:

Islam is based on unreality. Muslims therfore are living in an unreal world. Their perceptions of the unverese are tragically out of kilter with reality. We can therefore clearly see that the Qur'an is a work of fiction designed to enslave humanity by foisting upon the 'believers' absolutely unprovable beliefs and assertions that strip its believers of any independent thought, action, or the basic rights to do so. A solid understanding of the universe, what it is, and how it works is the prerequisite for ANY sort of human advancement in scientific and/or technological fields. This is impossible for follwers of Islam, who are denied the right to question anything except the actions of the supposed 'enemies' of Islam...

Posted by: pythagoras at January 7, 2005 8:30 PM

Pythagoras:
As a muslim, I don't feel that my right to question has been denied. However this idea has been rammed down the throats of muslims around the world by mullahs who have their own idea of what a person's faith should be.

We have every right to question someone's action, but not their intention. It is impossible to now what a person's intention is truly. In terms of technological advances, I am not going to start citing the likes of Avicena et al. All I am going to say is that science an Islam do work hand in hand, however it is based on the understanding that the faith in God is not diluted by your understanding of the universe. This understanding of the universe is one which will never be complete as we are rapidly seeing, it is much bigger than man will ever be.

On the point about Islam being based on unreality, in my mind, it is simply based on admitting that we believe in one god, not creating any associations with that being, and believing in the hereafter. Whether the Quran/Bible/Torah/Bhagavad Gita/Guru Granth Sahib is a work of fiction will always be debated. The issue lies not on whether it is a work of man, but more on what is said in it and how far it goes to limit the movements of man in this world. The belief in the hereafter goes hand in hand with the belief that these limitations are designed to ensure that the hereafter is assured. As a muslim I know that when we recite 'In the name of Allah, the merciful, the beneficent' this applies to all of mankind and not just muslims.

Posted by: Shapps at January 7, 2005 9:11 PM

"that modern science did not and could not have developed in an Islamic context because the idea that the universe operated according to discernable laws violated the Islamic notion of Allah's absolute sovereignty "

It is not only in the Islamic world that science would have been strangled in its cradle and its procrastinators executed as heretics.
were it not for the invention of the printing press and the evolution of protestantantism, the west too would have remained in the dark ages.
Copernicus, Newton et al were able to carry on their awe inspiring work unhindered by the incquisition and distribute their findings to all in the enlightened world.
To islam all the laws of physics, chemistry or evolutionary biology must seem like the laws of democracy and freedom of the individual.
All blasphemous man made laws, which should not be recognised or obeyed by devout muslims and severely resisted.

Posted by: george at January 7, 2005 9:27 PM

Moslems as being responsible for so many scientific and mathematical discoveries.
The most remarkable of all

?

Plus the amazing discovery of what can be done with three stones

Posted by: shiva at January 7, 2005 9:29 PM

Hello Shapps, welcome to this web site

please do not be offended by my questions or comments.

On the point about Islam being based on unreality, in my mind, it is simply based on admitting that we believe in one god
Posted by: Shapps

047.033
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger, and make not vain your deeds!

Was Mohammad perfect?

If Mohammadanism is a one God religion, then why do you get the death penalty for blasphemy
of Mohammad? The same penalty you get for blasphemy of Allah!

Why can Mohammad never be questioned?

Mohammad is held in such high esteem, that in reality he is being worshiped by all Moslems.

As a muslim I know that when we recite 'In the name of Allah, the merciful, the beneficent' this applies to all of mankind and not just muslims.
Posted by: Shapps

How does this apply to anyone? You are giving praise to your God. This applies only to your God and nobody else. So try again.

Allah says I am a ape or a pig, this makes it hard to believe that Allah would love anything that is non Moslem.

005.060
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

042.023
YUSUFALI: That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).

Posted by: Bar at January 7, 2005 9:55 PM

On the topic of Western Aid to the Mostly Muslim Countries that were victims of the Tsunami....

Won't this aid be seen, by Muslims, as fitting and proper when you factor in the idea that Christians and Jews the will not convert to Islam are in fact to be salves of Islam? Doesn't the billions of dollars and all the hours of labor pouring in to the area, simply play into the Islamic theory that those that are not Muslims are here to serve Muslims?

Posted by: Susanc at January 8, 2005 7:38 AM

Another point point of view on the reason for the Tsunami...

I have been hearing a lot about "Why did God bring the Tsunami or Why did
God allow the Tsunami" on the Television and the replies I have heard,
including Franklin Graham's on Fox TV News, did little to really explain why
any of the terrible things mankind experiences happens.

From a Tsunami to a personal loss of a loved one or a job or even a marriage
break-up it seems mankind needs to somehow pass the buck to God or shrug his
shoulders and say "Gee, I don't know why that happened" ( Adam and Eve both
passed the same buck in the garden Gen 3:12&13)

Please remember the following when you are tempted to blame or credit God
for the world's or your personal trials and tribulations.

When Eve and Adam decided in the garden to believe the serpent and in
essence doubt and deny God, they gave away the kingship of their hearts,
the dominion of the earth and the precious gift of being in the presence of
God as a child. They made satan the god of this world and were sent out of
God's Presence.

That event had consequences that humankind does not grasp, even now. One of
the consequences is God no longer had the "right" to just interfere with
mankind. They had made another god their king. They were separated by their
iniquity as Lucifer was separated from God by his iniquity.

Jesus was and is our "way Back" to God. Without a personal relationship with
Jesus we are out of touch with God. The world for the most part is out of
touch with God still living under the dispensation of law that they were
born into. That principle in part is, an eye for an eye ....and mankind is
subject to it regardless of whether they know it, or believe it of not. The
only way out of the dispensation of Law is to enter the Dispensation of
Grace through Jesus Christ.

God tells us over and over that the world runs on the principle of seed time
and harvest. Everything Physical and Spiritual begins with a seed. The world
sows seeds of sin and reap the crops of sin. These seeds planted in the
physical world have an effect on and in the spiritual world. Note that prior
to the flood, all men were only evil in their hearts and the crop of this
continual evil was a devastating flood that destroyed all life save Noah and
his family. The Flood was a result of mankind, Not God. Noah's salvation
shows Gods nature of mercy and love.

Just as a person's personal attitude and thought life can effect their
health, Just as Faith Heals and pessimism brings terrible physical and
emotional consequences so does mankind's corporate sin. This is why we are
told to take control of out thoughts and to think on only the good and just
and beautiful...How many of us do that?

The Tsunami was terrible and I am praying for the Physical and Spiritual
Salvation of all the survivors, please note it is not the only strange or
terrible weather manifestation that the world is experiencing....We are
seeing Storms and Earthquakes and Draughts and Terrible diseases in every
country on the earth. Think not that the Pacific rim was or is more sinful
than any other quarter of the globe.

The book of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 pretty well flat out tell us
what is happening on the earth. Why do we neglect to do what Jesus said? Why
do we refuse to cast our cares on Him? Why do we refuse to be as Children
and simply trust Him?

Regardless of what we did yesterday we can start to obey God today. We can
do what God says to do in Luke 21:36 and simply Watch and pray...We can
repent and get started studying the Bible, Praising Christ, Giving, Praying
and doing what God asks us to do.

We serve a Mighty Loving God. A God of second and third and fortieth
chances...But we also serve a Just God. Justice to the Just is fine...But
Justice to the unjust and brutal will be just that. Remember Psalm
91...People who know God as Father stand on His word and believe His
promises.

So no matter the trial or test or loss we have suffered, Please do not make
the mistake of blaming God....Place the blame where it belongs, on the
destroyer of men....Satan... and on mankind that still for the most part
refuses to believe God and surrender to Jesus Christ. Make sure satan has no
place in your life...Time is short and many will be lost. Start living with
heaven as your goal....Both a heaven you will enter and a heaven you will
bring others to with you!

Posted by: Susanc at January 8, 2005 7:41 AM

Hi, “cubed”, my main point was more that Aquinas championed Aristotle and that lead to Aristotle's influence. I meant to say Aquinas believed and convinced many Catholics of the compatibility or reconciliation between Aristotle and Christianity. I intended to single out the effect Aristotle's banishment Islam and the rise of Aristotle in Western Christianity. You make a good point, also. A is indeed A! ;)

And while I’m at it, let me point out, in response to "sonofwalker", that I specifically added the phrase “philosophically speaking” to indicate that the aspirations to the scientific method weren’t completely reached during the Enlightenment.

I'm surprised that no one made more of the fact that the author is implicitly championing a deist approach to religion unlike many vocal religionists today. Do we agree that Christians today are that secular?

Posted by: JasonP at January 8, 2005 7:41 AM

Hi Bar,
A long response this, but one I hope befits the effort you have put in:

"047.033
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger, and make not vain your deeds!
Was Mohammad perfect?"
Posted by: Bar

I personally believe that there is only one being capable of perfection and that is Allah/God. Mohammad was a man. Man as a creation is imperfect. Some muslims may say that Mohammad was perfect amongst men. And that may be the case, but that does not make him perfect amongst all beings. That is only reserved for the Creator.

"If Mohammadanism is a one God religion, then why do you get the death penalty for blasphemy
of Mohammad? The same penalty you get for blasphemy of Allah!"
Posted by: Bar

We have to make a distinction between Islamic Jurisprudence (known as Fiqh) and what the word of Allah is. Jurisprudence is what prescribes death for blasphemy. Opinions in the 4 schools of Islamic thought are divided, 2 believe that death is not only what is recommended, but what MUST happen. The other 2 schools, however do not. I believe that in an Islamic state, under Islamic Law, the Judge/Jury will make the decision as to what the punishment should be. Thus some would consider blasphemy against the Prophet as not punishable by death, all are agreed that blasphemy against Allah is.

"Why can Mohammad never be questioned?"
Posted by: Bar

I have always questioned. I don’t believe you can gain knowledge or understanding without questioning. I have spent countless hours debating why Mohammad made certain decisions and what their geo-political implications were at that time.

"Mohammad is held in such high esteem, that in reality he is being worshiped by all Moslems."
Posted by: Bar

When I pray, I pray to Allah. No one else. I have never asked Mohammad for anything. According to the sunnah (sayings and actions of the Prophet narrated by others):
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
"When you ask, ask of Allah;
When you seek help, seek help of Allah Alone."
[At-Tirmidhi]

~*And your Lord said: 'Invoke Me, I will answer you.*~
[Qur'an 40:60]

~*You (Alone) we worship;
And of You (Alone) we seek help.*~
[1:5]

"As a muslim I know that when we recite 'In the name of Allah, the merciful, the beneficent' this applies to all of mankind and not just muslims.
Posted by: Shapps
How does this apply to anyone? You are giving praise to your God. This applies only to your God and nobody else. So try again.
Posted by: Bar"

I’m not sure how you can say that only applies to ‘my’ God. Allah is the proper Arabic name for God. It has no gender and cannot be made plural (i.e. goddess, gods). Arabic speaking Christians also use the name Allah for God.
Allah says I am a ape or a pig, this makes it hard to believe that Allah would love anything that is non Moslem.

"005.060
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
Posted by: Bar

I have read that verse and am sure it is talking about those who incur the wrath and curse of Allah. Where you are quoting “He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil”, the translation to evil is not 100% complete. The word used is ‘Taghut’ which means false deities, i.e. Gods other than Allah. Bear in mind that this and other verses in this section are directed at the People of the scriptures who acknowledge the existence of One God and then go onto pursue a path of evil and denying the oneness of God.

"009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"
Posted by: Bar

And the next verse is?
009.031: They (Jews) took their rabbis to be their lords besides Allah and Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) while they were commanded to worship none but One ‘ilah (God). Glorified is He from having the partners they associate.
I believe the basics again are the oneness of God. Nothing more or less. Any deviation from this is seen as the cursed path.

"042.023
YUSUFALI: That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service)."
Posted by: Bar

I’m not sure what your point is with this verse. I assume you mean about belief and believing, with the understanding that only Muslims are believers. This is never the case. Again, the subject here is Monotheism. In the verses preceeding the one you quote, the Quran talks about what is known as Zalimun (Polytheists). When we talk about only muslims believing this is not true in that there are many Jews & Christians who believe in One single entity. As to whether they will be punished, it is important to remember that no person is free from sin so every one will have to endure punishment of some sort.

Posted by: Shapps at January 8, 2005 10:42 AM

Hi SusanC,

w.r.t Western Aid to the Mostly Muslim Countries. I think you will find that most muslims will say that a charity giving non-muslim is a much better person than a non-giving muslim.

w.r.t your alternative point of view on the causes of the Tsunami, I largely agree with you about the cause of this potentially being the disbelief in God. I would obviously disagree with the surrender to Jesus Christ as a muslim should only surrender to God and no other being.

Posted by: Shapps at January 8, 2005 10:50 AM

I'm surprised that no one made more of the fact that the author is implicitly championing a deist approach to religion unlike many vocal religionists today. Do we agree that Christians today are that secular?

Posted by: JasonP at January 8, 2005 07:41 AM

Jason--

Frankly, I can't wrap my brain around the idea that anyone who believes in God at all, Deist or Literalist, is secular, but rather they are on a continuum of belief. I certainly understand the author's association of the Deist view with scientific advance, rather than the Literalist one. The Deists subject themselves to far fewer prohibitions against inquiry than the Literalists do.

Posted by: cubed at January 8, 2005 11:52 AM

I come to this site for the news and to communicate with others like myself -- people who are aware of the Jihad waged on America from within and from without.

If there's one thing that will cause me to leave/cease to participate is the persistant religious arrogance of some of the readers who write looong posts prostelyzing for Jesus.

"We can do what God says to do in Luke 21:36 and simply Watch and pray...We can repent and get started studying the Bible, Praising Christ, Giving, Praying and doing what God asks us to do." And on and on ...

As a Jew I don't believe in Christ nor do I want to be urged to or constantly hear about him -- can't we tone this kind of posting down?

This is Jihad Watch, not "come to Jesus Watch.,"

Isn't it?

Posted by: Kemaste at January 8, 2005 12:02 PM

Kemaste:

PLEASE don't leave! We need you. Don't let minor differences of opinion/belief/politics (which they truly are, in light of the greater Threat we ALL face) drive you away. I value your opinions and contributions; please be patient with the over-exuberance sometimes shown by the occasional poster. I don't agree with everything that's said here, nor do most of us, but we MUST stick together if we are to triumph over the evil that is islam. Look at kj and the abuse he inflicts/takes; he's an extreme minority here, but that doesn't deter him from ardent and militant anti-jihadism. Please just skip over what you don't agree with (it's still OK to express your indignation and resentment) and focus on our common ground. It's VITAL to our Cause.

Posted by: CGW at January 8, 2005 12:35 PM

Kemaste:
I 2nd CGW
PLEASE don't leave! We need you...

My apologies if my comments have offended you.

Stay my friend.

Posted by: Bar at January 8, 2005 1:44 PM

I agree with CGW and also suggest kemaste skip the parts he doesn't agree with in the name of tolerance! Something unknown in the Islamist world but let's hope we can display it here. Everyone has their own coping mechanisms and to some it's their religious beliefs - let's respect them and not attempt to dampen free speech, ok?

I've been reading this site for a long time and have appreciated each and every contributor. It's good not to feel alone anymore so keep up the good work, stay focused and don't sweat the small stuff. There's bigger fish to fry!

Posted by: abbey at January 8, 2005 1:46 PM

Shapps thank you for your response
I would add this

I'm not sure how you can say that only applies to `my' God. Allah is the proper Arabic name for God.
Posted by: Shapps

This is a quote from the magazine “Israel My Glory”

May I sate for the record, Allah is not the Arabic term for “God”
Allah is an idol
In all of our debates in universities and colleges, my brother and I have never found one Muslim who believes that Allah of the Qur’an and the God of the Bible are the same God. Never. If monotheism is the sole measure of truth in this case, if Allah is the same god as the true and living God, then Elijah owes the prophets of Baal ( also monotheistic ) an apology.
written by Dr Ergun Caner

042.023
YUSUFALI: That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).

This I added to show Allah only likes those who believe in him! It says YOU must do righteous deeds and believe. This excludes all non Moslems and is in direct conflict with what the Bible says, “that God so loved the world” see the one true God of the Bible loves man despite the fact that he is a sinner. The god of the Qur’an only loves you after you believe and do good deeds.

The Christians have a saying, I love God, because he loved me first.

A Moslem could not say this without putting a spin on the Qur’an and its ambagious verses.

Moslems say Allah is Most Merciful.
the key word being “Merciful”
the definition of the word mercy:

Date:13th century

1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment *begged for mercy* b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder.

So by definition, mercy is something given when not deserved or earned.

The Qur’an clearly shows that Allah only has mercy on those who earn it, by believing and doing good deeds. That my friend is not mercy and continues to show that Qur’an is not clear and full of contradictions, errors etc....

Posted by: Bar at January 8, 2005 2:07 PM

Hi Bar,

I gotta keep this one brief as I'm supposed to be going to a party (Wife is shouting as I type!)

"So by definition, mercy is something given when not deserved or earned. "

Surely we should ask for mercy when we are all born sinners? Something about Original Sin. Is there harm in asking for mercy from God's wrath as so many of our sins may be unconscious?

As for Allah being the word for God in arabic, there is a post about this under the article titled "osama bin laden is the only leader of muslims now" posted today. I hope I have answered that question there.

Thanks, and have a good evening.
Shapps

Posted by: Shapps at January 8, 2005 2:28 PM

There is no such thing as "unconscious sin"; in order for a sin to be committed, the action/thought must be recognized as sinful, and the decision made to complete the action/ thought depite that recognition. In other words, you must know that something is a sin, and make the decision to go ahead with it despite that fact. The concept of "unconscious sin" is inherently unfair. How can you be blamed for doing something you didn't even know was wrong or did not intend to do? The concept of WILLFUL INTENT is central to the traditional concept of sin.

Posted by: CGW at January 8, 2005 4:17 PM

I should have added that the CONSCIOUSNESS OF WRONGDOING and WILLFUL INTENT are necessary for the commission of sin.

Posted by: CGW at January 8, 2005 4:20 PM

Kemaste and others likely don't share many of my opinions, given that I'm a right-wing religious bigot, a left-wing communist atheist, a mass-murederer, an idiot, and who knows what else. Ah, a Moslem troll. I also am the only kind of my type who has a picture of Jabotinsky on my wall. It's close to my picture of Socrates. I think people who disagree with me are nuts, but hey, there's always hope for them. And please quit calling me a nut, it pisses me off.

Posted by: sonofwalker at January 8, 2005 4:31 PM

To all who responded to my post:

CGW, Bar, Abbey -- You're right about the bigger picture. It's difficult to be tolerant when some are wielding the "Jesus is the way" hammer. (Tolerance being way over rated and one of the reasons the West is in its current difficulties. Look at what's happening to Israel for being tolerant)

sonofwalker: I'm very conservative myself and take pride in my right-wingedness. (is that a word?)So I find your comment a little perplexing. Was it in regard to our discussion of halal ritual slaughter?

Posted by: Kemaste at January 8, 2005 6:26 PM

kemaste, You expect contributors to tolerate your beliefs so what's the problem in giving them some respect in return. That's all I'm saying and has nothing whatsoever to do with tolerating - the bigger fish - Islamofascists.

PS: I'm also a rightwingedister with a focus on ridding the planet of jihadi cultists. We come in all shapes and sizes and from all ways of life and that includes believers in Jesus Christ. (no, I'm not a born again nor could I - to my shame - quote you anything from the bible w/o looking it up but I have the utmost repect for them and also for my Jewish brethren - like you).

Posted by: abbey at January 8, 2005 9:25 PM

Abbey:

"You expect contributors to tolerate your beliefs "

I do? What beliefs? Which one of my beliefs have I proselytized here?

People post from all over the world and from various religious backrounds. It's the long winded, grandstanding, Jesus filled posts that get my hackles up. I'm a believing, observant Jew but I push my beliefs on no-one and don't expect a 13 paragraph sermon when I get here. If I don't have a right to say that, maybe it's you who needs to be a little more tolerant.

With all due respect ...

Posted by: Kemaste at January 8, 2005 10:38 PM

Ones belief system does not necessarily involve a religon - period.

This is what I initially responded to... "As a Jew I don't believe in Christ nor do I want to be urged to or constantly hear about him". Now you say "Jesus filled posts that get my hackles up".

Very Islamofascist of you!

That's all.

Posted by: abbey at January 9, 2005 12:32 AM

Abbey:

You stated to me, "You expect contributors to tolerate your beliefs "

And I asked you, which one of my beliefs? You never answered my question. Or was it just that I had the nerve to speak up that I get, "Very Islamofascist of you!" How tolerant of you Abbey ...

Posted by: Kemaste at January 9, 2005 2:09 AM

that,s it Kemaste sock it to them

Posted by: shiva at January 9, 2005 3:24 AM

Kemaste
I could not agree with you more

I come to this site for the news and to communicate with others like myself -- people who are aware of the Jihad waged on America from within and from without.
If there's one thing that will cause me to leave/cease to participate is the persistant religious arrogance of some of the readers who write looong posts prostelyzing for Jesus.
"We can do what God says to do in Luke 21:36 and simply Watch and pray...We can repent and get started studying the Bible, Praising Christ, Giving, Praying and doing what God asks us to do." And on and on ...
As a Jew I don't believe in Christ nor do I want to be urged to or constantly hear about him -- can't we tone this kind of posting down?
This is Jihad Watch, not "come to Jesus Watch.,"
Isn't it?
Posted by: Kemaste

I would like to add; that this is Jihad Watch, not "come to Jesus Watch,or Koran watch,here I am refering to comments made in the [osama bin laden is the only leader of muslims now] thread,and catherines arrogant Quoranic/tsusnamic rants.
This is the method of the mad mullahs
Myself I am concerned about the the crimes being committed in the name of religion be it islam/christian/hindu,The main issue is fightng the enemies of mankind not if allah is god is allah is god.I come to this site for the news and to communicate with others like myself ,not excersising my scrolling finger.
Now back to the main issue JIHAD,JIHAD and more jihad
Below is what has been going on in the real world.
No wonder the mussies are gaining ground

Gunfire reported in Banda Aceh
There are reports of shooting in the major tsunami aid-base of Banda Aceh in the Indonesian province of Aceh.
There have been conflicting accounts of the incident, which happened near the main United Nations aid office, but no casualties have been reported.
One policeman blamed separatist rebels for the gunfire, another said a disturbed government soldier fired the shots.
The area is now quiet.
The incident could raise concern about the safety of hundreds of Western aid personnel pouring into Aceh province, where almost all of Indonesia's more than 104,000 deaths from the Boxing Day tsunami and earthquake occurred.
"A police team that was guarding the house of the deputy police chief saw people carrying guns. The police warned these people, then fired a shot and an exchange of fire occurred," Inspector Lazuardi, leading two truckloads of police deployed at the scene after the shooting, said.
Three people the police were shooting at fled, he said, adding the firing lasted about 10 minutes.

Asked who he thought was responsible, Inspector Lazuardi said: "Who else? GAM (the rebel Free Aceh Movement) is the one who likes to disturb."
GAM rebels have been fighting the Indonesian Government for nearly three decades. Both sides made conciliatory gestures immediately after the tsunami but since then have accused one another of initiating several clashes.
A policeman guarding the UN compound said the incident had nothing to do with GAM.
"It was a [security forces] member who was traumatised. The police and military have secured this area. It's safe. We are here to protect. It was only an isolated incident," he said.
The area was quiet later and the police trucks left.

-Reuters

Posted by: shiva at January 9, 2005 3:52 AM

Children, now stop bickering. Apologize, kiss and make up. ;-)

Posted by: CGW at January 9, 2005 5:31 AM

Kenmaste

Perhaps you should avoid reading the responses to topics like: THE MYSTERY OF THE ALMIGHTY if you are so put off by posts ABOUT THE ALMIGHTY??? Ya Think??

My post was originally written for a Christian Site and to save time I did not edit it for your sensitive "Jewish" ears...

I am a "Bible Thumping" Christian. I am a politically active citizen, and I do not apologize for that to you or anyone else....

Posted by: Susanc at January 10, 2005 6:31 AM

Posted by: Kemaste at January 8, 2005 06:26 PM

YOU FIGHT WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE!!!

If you are a Jew you should feel proud that one who is of your Tribe is held by so many to be on high??

REMEMBER JUSES WAS A JEW AND TAUGHT THE TORAH!! THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS BELIEVE IN THE TORAH!! THIS IS SOMETHING AS A JEW SHOULD UNDERSTAND!!!

You are sudacidal??

You are the One who is bashing people for what they believe?? We all Know If what you say is true that you are a Jew???

OH BUT HE DOES PROTEST TO MUCH???

To anger the ones who fight on your side is a sure way to be shot in the back when the shooting starts??

If you are a Jew you are a very foolish one!!!

WOULD YOU BITE THE HAND OF THE PERSON WHO PULLS YOU FROM THE HOLE??

SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED TO GET OVER YOURSELF!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY [FREEDOM TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AND GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at January 10, 2005 6:18 PM

Catherine states:

YOU FIGHT WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE!!!

To anger the ones who fight on your side is a sure way to be shot in the back when the shooting starts??

Really Catherine?

This from one who goes on and on and one and on?

If I have to worry about such bullshit -- being shot in the back -- you can take your conditional alliance and shove it! -- That shouldn't be too difficult with those short skirts you're always talking about!

I guess free expression is allowed here for you but for those that speak up (that you disagree with) its shut up or get shot?

Who's pulling me from the hole Catherine? You? Should I kiss your ring first? Should I pay you a little "protection" money?

So, let's see... good Jews should be quiet, kiss ass and dare not speak out or disagree because we may get knifed in the back by such magnanimous Christians who demand what? That we grovel for your "support?" Thanks, I'll pull myself out of the hole...

Take a word of advice:

It's better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 10, 2005 9:54 PM

Kemaste:

There's not too much more that I can say, except to quote cubed (whom I respect enormously):

"We also have a common goal that must be maintained until Islam is no longer a threat.

Word of advice: No matter HOW strongly you believe that your belief system is the "One True System," put it aside and focus on strategy and tactics in this war.

Believe me, that's exactly what the enemy is doing by observing the quibbles about "My version is best," and "No, MY version is best!"

Folks, the only important thing is: FOCUS ON THE GOAL! Don't regard each other as "Infidels." What a waste of time and energy!"

There is at least one person here who values your perspective and your insight and has the utmost respect for you - me. I will be truly aggrieved if that does not suffice. You will be missed. There are many Jews who read and post here, and I treasure every last one. Only you know the limits of your personal level of tolerance, and I don't blame you for your indignation and frustration; they are justified. I only hope that you can see the Bigger Picture and let everything else slide, as the majority of us must do. But I wish you all the best, and am forever your ally.

CGW

Posted by: CGW at January 11, 2005 6:46 AM

It's great to see that Hollyweird has now discovered Radical Islam:

I saw 24 last night on WFLD Channel 32 - Fox's network in Chicago and can assert that there was no racism or stereotyping at all - just an honest portrayal of the sort of Terrorists we have had to deal with.
Trying to pass off the Islamic Terrorists as Polish Catholic of Armenian Jews won't work too well in Chicago, we have a lot of experience with them here:

City Colleges fire lecturer with terror ties
June 6, 2003
BY ANA MENDIETA Staff Reporter
A Bridgeview man who served five years in an
Israeli prison for allegedly channeling funds to
Islamic terrorists has been fired from his job at
City Colleges for failing to disclose his
conviction, officials said Thursday.
Mohammed Salah was terminated Wednesday from his
job as a part-time lecturer at Olive-Harvey
College because he failed to list his conviction
on his employment application in February 2002,
said Paula Bridges, City Colleges' director of
marketing and public relations.
Salah, a U.S. citizen, was arrested in Jerusalem
in 1993 and convicted in 1995 for allegedly
helping to channel $650,000 to the terrorist group
Hamas. He returned to the United States after a
five-year prison sentence.
College officials were alerted of Salah's
conviction by ABC News and contacted federal law
enforcement officials to verify it, Bridges said.
His conviction didn't surface in a procedural
background check during his hiring process,
Bridges added.
Salah was named in a 2000 lawsuit filed by the
parents of 17-year-old David Boim, who was gunned
down by Palestinian terrorists in Jerusalem in
1996. The Boims used the 1992 federal
Anti-Terrorism Act to target groups alleged to
fund international terrorism.
Salah also was a substitute teacher in Chicago
Public Schools until recently, a schools spokesman
said.
Salah could not be reached.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I never ran into Salah (obvious since he is
STILL breathing) but would JUST LOVE TO HAVE A
LITTLE TALK WITH HIM!
What GALLS THE HELL OUT OF ME Is that ONLY THREE
MONTHS I WAS CALLED ON THE CARPET AND HAD TO LOOSE
MONTHS OF WORK FOR MY COMMENTS ON THESE FOUL
TERRORISTS _ WHO ARE HUMAN GARBAGE!
And it turns ONE OF THIS MURDEROUS MONSTER IS
TEACHING FOR THE CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS AS A SUB -
and is a COLLEAGUE!
We are SUPPOSED TO HAVE A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND
CHECK ON ALL EMLOYEES - and this REVOLTING VERMIN
IS A CONVICTED TERRORIST WHO IS ALSO ON THE FBI'S
WATCH LIST - YET THIS DISGUSTING PIECE OF HUMAN
TRASH IS TEACHING IN OUR SCHOOLS -
Hey - Salah - come on down to the West Side Monday
morning ok? I HAVE A PRESENT FOR YOU SCUM!
God Bleess America, MR. George M Weinert V
Chicago Public Schools - Sub Services

We've also had considerable national media attention due to the activities of a number of "Islamic Charities" that are centered here in Chicago and like to funnel funds to Hamas the Islamic Jerkoffs and the Feds have put them on the ropes quite well. The battle of course continues.

The Muslime Terrorists don't stand much of a chance at gaining any sort of foothold in the Chicago area since our two large Arab Communities, in the Southwest suburb of Bubank, IL and on Chicago's north side on West Devon Avenue are kept under close scrutiny by the IBI, Chicago Police and the Feds at all times.

Add to this the thousands of Chicagoans like me that will beat the hell out of out of townes and foreigners that come to our beautiful city to create problems. Though Chicago is indeed the friendliest city in the USA, the combined heritage of Al Capone and the Stockyards/immigrant culture make Chicagoans pretty tough characters when they are threatened. The liberal Terrorists learned a good lesson during the 1968 Democratic Convention and most of the world took notice. Since they don't want their heads busted or cement shoes they wisely stay away.

We must never forget about 9/11 and the attack on the USS Cole. And the destruction of the Marine barracks in Beirut. And the Khomeini regime and the hostage crisis. And thousands of other incidents, stretching back in time to when Muhammad led the first Muslims in the first jihad.

Islamist extremists in the world as estimated by moderate Muslim
leaders: about 12 million. Fundamentalist sympathizers: 120 million.
Those numbers represent 1 percent and 10 percent of the world's
Muslim population of 1.2 billion. The CIA puts the extremists much
higher - 40 million. THIS IS REALITY and they MUST ALL BE DESTROYED -

Praise the Lord and God Bless America,
Zionist/infidel/neocon/imperialist/capitalist/Jew
George M Weinert V
Georgemvw999@hotmail.com
http://www.americanjihad.blogspot.com/
http://groups.msn.com/ConservativeNow
http://groups.yahoo.com/americanjihad/

Posted by: Americanjihad at January 11, 2005 10:31 AM

CGW

Posted by: CGW at January 11, 2005 06:46 AM

That is what I tried to tell him That trying to kill those who fight on your side will only get you shot in the back??

Don't know what his problem is maybe had a fight with his wife??

Or he is not really a Jewish Person but a pretender??

and I said??

If you are a Jew you are a very foolish one!!!

and He said??

Really Catherine?

This from one who goes on and on and one and on?

Who's pulling me from the hole Catherine? You? Should I kiss your ring first? Should I pay you a little "protection" money?

So, let's see... good Jews should be quiet, kiss ass and dare not speak out or disagree because we may get knifed in the back by such magnanimous Christians who demand what? That we grovel for your "support?" Thanks, I'll pull myself out of the hole...

WHY WOULD I KNIEF YOU IN THE BACK??

I HAVE NEVER SAID WHO OR WHAT I BELIEVE??

IF I'M JEWISH OR CHRISTIAN

YOU ASUME??

I HAVE SAID I'M NOT MULSUM THIS IS ALL ANYBODY KNOWS MAYBE SOME WHO ARE SMART ENOUGH HERE KNOW WHICH YOU SHOW NOT TO BE????

AGAIN I SAY TO YOU IF YOU ARE A JEW YOU ARE A FOOLISH ONE!!

Sorry CGW I couldn't help myself??

If he is in this fight he will have to get along with others somewhat and no one ever said it would be fare???

There are Many Jewish persons who write here and don't pick on the Christians but try to show what they have in common not divide this is what the mulsums try to do and I have seen him do this over and over again not that some Jews aren't a little snotty and this is their problem many are the hollywood elite?? or think they are elite look how he offered money like that would work on me??

I would never protect such a sh-t like he said he could pull himself out of his hole??

Loved the guy on Video yesterDAY whose BMW went in the drink didn't look like he could pull himself out of the water?? AND LOST HIS PANTS TOO!! LOL!!ROTFL

Kasamate will learn one day that you need friends and not all friends think alike i just hope he learns this soon!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight, and Courage to Desrtoy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

Posted by: Catherine at January 11, 2005 4:09 PM

Catherine:

You prove time and again that the right to speak one's mind is reserved for you and those who agree with you.

"Kasamate will learn one day that you need friends and not all friends think alike i just hope he learns this soon!!"

Practice what you preach Catherine..

Posted by: Kemaste at January 11, 2005 9:59 PM