Nathan
And, you as a Jew
Nowhere have I stated that I am a jew,not in my last comment,or any comment or at anytime other in my whole life

Myself I am concerned about the the crimes being committed in the name of religion be it islam/christian/hindu
[in the past present or future]and just now it is Islam under the spotlight,but lets not forget
christian killing christian
northern ireland
rwanda
america/UN bombing orthodox serbs
the orginal natives of the americas

faith in one self and your fellow man is supperior than any abstract god

B.I.B.L.E. = basic instructions before leaving earth?

lest we forget
And this below is not from the Quoran
Collective punishment and indiscriminate war were also commanded or approved in the Hebrew Bible, especially in cases of idolatry. The first of the Mosaic commandments prohibited the Israelites from worshipping anyone but Yahweh. God demanded purity and strict obedience; idolatry and blasphemy were punishable by death (Exodus 20:3, 5). Non-Israelites who lived within the area believed by the Hebrews to have been promised to them by God were seen to pose a great temptation to them to abandon their faith. This led them to justify the slaughter of entire communities. Deuteronomy 20:16-18 says, "[In] the towns of the nations whose land the LORD your God is giving you as your holding, you must not leave a soul alive.... [Y]ou must destroy them ... so that they may not teach you to imitate the abominable practices they have carried on for their gods...." Joshua 6:21 and 10:40 claim that "[Joshua's army killed everyone in Jericho], both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.... Joshua defeated the whole land... he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded."
Israel's external enemies were to be treated somewhat more leniently: they were first to be presented with peace terms, and if those were accepted then the people would be subjugated, not killed. But if they rejected the terms, the men would be slaughtered and the women and children enslaved. (Deuteronomy 20:10-15):

Posted by: shiva at January 9, 2005 9:45 AM

OOOOps the last comment should have gone to From the Fatwa Department: "the Kuffaar can never be trusted thread
sorry

Posted by: shiva at January 9, 2005 9:50 AM

wow
Saudi's second batch of relief aid arrives in Batam
Some-thing strange going on here
1}Batam is not on the Island of Sumatra,so must be fowarded to ???
2]The Indonesian press is giving coverage to these two shipmemts???,but hardly any coverage of the aid pouring in from Australia,USA and Europe
3]All Saudi Arabian aid will be transported by Indonesian Navy ships.
BATAM, Riau Islands (Antara): The second batch of Saudi Arabia's relief aid for Aceh and North Sumatra arrived in Batam's Hang Nadim Airport on Sunday, on board a Saudi Airlines cargo aircraft.
Saudi Arabian Ambassador to Jakarta Abdullah Abdulrahman Alim handed over the aid to acting Riau Islands Governor Ismeth Abdullah.
Abdullah said the government and people of the Saudi Arabian kingdom contributed a total of 320 tons of goods and US$ 30 million in cash.
"There are two more batches to come," he said.
Abdullah also said the Saudi Arabian government and people did not want the aid to be overly exposed as they were already obligated to help.
"Let's just keep it (the intention to contribute) in our hearts," he said.
All Saudi Arabian aid will be transported by Indonesian Navy ships. Currently there are 180 tons of goods ready to be shipped in two batches.
"It is more practical to send the aid by ships instead of using airplanes as ships have more capacity," said Ismeth. (***)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: hawkwind at January 9, 2005 10:28 AM

Gunfire breaks out near UN headquarters in Banda Aceh

BANDA ACEH, Aceh (AP): Suspected rebels fired shots early on Sunday at the home of a top police official near the United Nations' relief headquarters in the tsunami-ravaged Indonesian city of Banda Aceh, officials said. There were no casualties.

An unspecified number of Free Aceh Movement rebels fired at officers guarding the home of Aceh provincial deputy police chief, located about 100 meters from the U.N. building, said police Brig. Bambang Hariyanto. Police returned fire but the rebels vanished into the city, he said, adding authorities were investigating the incident.

Police and UN officials said the UN's relief headquarters was not the target of the shooting, in which there were no casualties.

A truckload of soldiers arrived outside the building shortly after the automatic gunfire was heard, a UN staffer said on condition of anonymity.

The shooting underscores concerns about security during the relief effort in Aceh, which was devastated by the Dec. 26 earthquake and tsunami.

The Free Aceh Movement (GAM) rebels have been fighting a low-level war against Indonesian troops for an independent homeland in Aceh for more than 20 years. They declared a unilateral cease-fire and the military said it would not target suspected rebelsduring the emergency, but clashes have broken out in recent days.

Posted by: hawkwind at January 9, 2005 10:34 AM

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Tsunami volunteers urged to respect local cultures

SYDNEY, Australia (DPA): Well-meaning but inexperienced people who volunteer to help victims of the Asian tsunami could end up doing more harm than good, an Australian expert in disaster relief warned on Sunday.

Michael Dureau, the head of Registered Engineers for Disaster Relief, said only people with skills should join in the relief effort.

"An untrained person going into an area where there is quite a massive relief event is likely to tread on the toes of the local people," Dureau told Australia's AAP news agency. "Food distribution will go to the wrong people, they will be religiously offended, clothing will go which they can't wear."

The warning followed a declaration from a hardline Islamic group in Aceh that covert Christian missionaries would not be welcome in tsunami-ravaged areas of the northernmost Indonesian province.

Catholic priest Chris Riley, head of the Melbourne charity Youth Off the Streets, was last week told to abandon a plan to set up an orphanage in Aceh for some of the 35,000 children with dead or missing parents.

Hilmy Bakar Almascaty, head of the Islamic Defenders Front, said his radical group would resist any attempt at converting Acehnese to Christianity. He said Muslim groups would set up their own orphanages for minors who survived the tsunami but whose parents did not. (***)

Posted by: hawkwind at January 9, 2005 10:50 AM

Grateful Indonesians???

The TSUNAMI VICTIMS may be grateful of the help they've received, but from personal experience I can tell you that there are quite a number of Indonesians (of course they are not the Tsunami victims) who are VERY SUSPICIOUS of the help from infidels, especially the biggest infidel, the US of A!!!

And who transported those laskar mujahidin and the members of the PKS party to Aceh? the Indonesian government/army.

This is the same Indonesian government/army who shipped these same bandits to Ambon during the worst sectarian violence in that region.

Posted by: jasmine at January 9, 2005 3:04 PM

Grateful Indonesians???

The TSUNAMI VICTIMS may be grateful of the help they've received, but from personal experience I can tell you that there are quite a number of Indonesians (of course they are not the Tsunami victims) who are VERY SUSPICIOUS of the help from infidels, especially the biggest infidel, the US of A!!!

And who transported those laskar mujahidin and the members of the PKS party to Aceh? the Indonesian government/army.

This is the same Indonesian government/army who shipped these same bandits to Ambon during the worst sectarian violence in that region.

Posted by: jasmine at January 9, 2005 3:05 PM

I thnk that some indonesian go down his anti-americanism and anti-christianism but in Aceh we can´t trust

Posted by: Franze at January 9, 2005 3:14 PM

'Why have the Muslim countries been so slow and stingy?' " said Goenawan Mohamad, one of the country's leading intellectuals.

Why indeed? Because to the best of my knowledge the Saudis and other oil-rich Muslim states (Iran, Iraq, etc.) only hand out money to build mosques and religious schools or fund terrorist organizations, not to alleviate human suffering in the face of disease, natural disasters, etc..

Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 9, 2005 3:26 PM

Reading all your comments, I wonder has anyone ever read Christoph Luxenberg's devastating critique of Islam? If not I recommend Googling his name and reading what he says about the origins of Islam.
If anyone after reading CL still thinks that there is any point in cooperating or working with the adherents of this nonsense (Jewish/Christian heresy), well then there is no help for him.
Islam should be dealt with and ultimately defeated as was any of the other totalitarian systems of fascism or communisn.
What we're here ultimately dealing with is a brutal, primitive perversion of the ideals of the Jewish/Christian religion into a monstrous totalitarian ideology...

Caneel

Posted by: Caneel at January 9, 2005 4:46 PM

Nathan: Stalin and Mao did not kill for "atheism", there oppression was one of economic, not religious ideology.

Like it or not Hitler was a Christian. I know you will disavow it, but facts are facts.

Native Americans were in fact slaughtered (especially in Central and South America) for conversion purposes. In North America they were forcibly converted, and deprived their culture and religion. Spell, for example Caryle Barracks here.

You may not like Hitler's Christianity but he was indeed a son of the Church and from the Church he got his ideas, in fact Pius XII, Catholic Priests, Cardinals, Bishops and Lutheran heirarchy all sacntioned him.

Even this Fundamentalist Website says that Clinton was right, about Hitlers Christianity

Claiming that Stalin and Mao killed in the name of atheism is a logical fallacy. The fallacy is here:
That car is red, that car is a Chevy, all red cars are Chevy's.

I personally think that religious belief is necessary and beneficial, so long as it is kept personal. Islam does not keep it personal, and neither does Christianity. Judaism, on the other hand does.

Here's the problem:

"Anyone who thinks religion is not political does not understand religion" Mohatma Ghandi.

Posted by: Giaour at January 9, 2005 7:15 PM

As expected up here in Canada our Liberals have decided to exploit the Tsunami by placating the Sri-lakan and Thai immigrants in the Electoral Districts that helped them win the Election with a minority.
Some of you may remember a earlier posting where I pointed out that a Libearal ( M.P. Dan McTeague) made an appearance at a Mosque that
claimed to have been a victim of Racism and Islamophobia. The Liberal M.P.(Catholic) exploited the pre-election goodwill by parroting
the usual tripe about "Ignorant Christians that don't know that Jesus is in the Quran" ,the archived video has him declaring Islam as the true religion and Allah as the real God of all people and appeases the Muslims by submitting to the belief that Jesus is not the Messiah.
Today on a radio show McTeague avoided any reference to the terrorist threats from the Islamic Nations and defended our Prime Minister
for his cheap ruse of a planned vacationing to Thailand in the next few weeks,and the visit to Sri Lanka which will be another Photo-Op for the expected Federal Election under a unstable Minority Government in Canada.
McTeague(Foreign affairs house leader) stated that the P.M. and Canada wasn't asked to help with the Tsunami disaster by the other Countries
and so our P.M. will go to Thailand and Sri Lamka
for now.
Thailand appears to have about 5000 deaths and Sri Lamka has near 15000 or more since the numbers are still rising,with a total of about 155,000 dead, Canada's leader is playing it safe by going to a area that only had about 3 percent of the total and is a "Non-Islamic" Nation (Thailand)that poses no imediate threat.

While thousands are at risk of death by the aftermath our Country has a gutless leader that
uses the Tsunami to secure votes at home in the
ethnic districts that voted for them last June in the Federal Election.
In the movie "Ghandi" I remember a scene where
a Military Court was having a trial for a C.O.
that ordered soldiers to shoot the proteters,when asked about giving aid to the persons mowed down
by machine guns he stated that "We gave aid to anyone that asked for help".
This is exactly what Canada has done,our PC Liberals have taken both sides of the conflict
to protect their place at the Public trough,by their own admission today on the radio the Liberals have chosen to allow thousands to die
because they "Didn't ask for help" and therefore
absolve them of any guilt or responsibility.

The truth is that Liberals have gutted our Military and used the money to buy votes through
a perceived "Free Healthcare" system,we can't send aid around the world without renting planes from foreign Nations,and our disaster relief team
was only on paper and won't be fully functional
until about a month after the earthquake on Dec 26th.

The shameless Liberals will stoop to the level of letting people die while they focus on their future Election to assure votes to reign
another term at the trough.

Posted by: ala-sux at January 9, 2005 7:24 PM

Once upon a time there were Red Indians. Then along came the Palefaces.
The Red Indians are no longer Red as that might imply Communism, athough their tribes were very communal - and still are on the reservations they've been 'preserved' on. Ironically, many Palefaces have since become Rednecks. But whichever way you look at it, judging people by color is very unwise.

But before all this happened, the many native tribes of what was still to become America had all the space in what was their world. They made good use of it, living close to nature and treating life as a camping holiday with teepees and hunting lodges.

There was so much in the way of free-range food, you left it alone until needed. Animals had powerful spirits and placation was necessary if you ate them. When corn came by courtesy of the deities, it was also given its due measure of respect. Heaven was the Happy Hunting Ground, much the same as Earth but with better weather.

Living so close to nature, you could see into the souls of the BEAVER, BADGER and Buffaloes as they went about their business. You could feel the THUNDER-BIRD fixing the weather, and revel in the rascality of RAVEN, MANABOZHO and COYOTE with their tantalising tricks.

Until the White Man came, it was all healthy sing-songs and tales round the campfire. No churches, shrines or temples necessary with oft-repeated tales and dances to appease the spirits. And it was teetotalism round the TOTEM-POLES as none of the spirits drank spirits. Although they did puff on the peace pipe a bit

Well the Indians of central americas did not send all that gold back to europe and the vatican

Adolf Hitler
I am completely convinced that I am acting as the agent of God. I am now a Catholic and will always remain so.” Mein Kampf
Hitler was never excommunicated by the Vatican
Mein Kampf was never banned by The Church
And what about Rev Ian Paisly
No friend of the Vatican
As far as Rwanda,according to the newspaers blah blah-----
Country name: Republic of Rwanda (Rwandese Republic)
Location: Central Africa (bordering Congo, Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi)
Total Population: 7,810,056 (July 2003 estimate)
Ethnic Populations: Hutu (Bahutu), 85%; Tutsi (Batutsi), 14%; Twa (Batwa), Languages: Kinyarwanda (official) universal Bantu vernacular, French (official), English (official), Kiswahili (Swahili) used in commercial centers
Religions: Roman Catholic 56.5%, Protestant 26%, Adventist 11.1%, Muslim 4.6%, indigenous beliefs 0.1%, none 1.7%
Religion did not stop these non-Athiests from hacking each other to pieces
lets stop wasting cyber-space lets follow the advice from
Cubed
. We also have a common goal that must be maintained until Islam is no longer a threat.

Word of advice: No matter HOW strongly you believe that your belief system is the "One True System," put it aside and focus on strategy and tactics in this war.

Believe me, that's exactly what the enemy is doing by observing the quibbles about "My version is best," and "No, MY version is best!"

Folks, the only important thing is: FOCUS ON THE GOAL! Don't regard each other as "Infidels." What a waste of time and energy!

Posted by: shiva at January 10, 2005 3:57 AM

Nathan
Judging by your name this you should know:-

I am completely convinced that I am acting as the agent of God. I am now a Catholic and will always remain so.
Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf
Hitler was never excommunicated by the Vatican
Mein Kampf was never banned by The Church
I hope shiva doesnt find this
1607 – 1890
American Genocide of the Native Peoples of America and Africa
Estimated civilian deaths: 90,000,000 people
(in North, South and Central America combined)
The British arrived in Jamestown in 1607. By 1610 the intentional extermination of the native population was well underway.
America’s contribution to “the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world” continued unabated to 1890. In December of that year the vengeful soldiers of the United States Seventh Cavalry used gattling guns and rifles to slaughter Lakota men, women and children at Wounded Knee, South Dakota.
More recently, with the unwitting sterilization of Indian women at hospitals in South Dakota, the FBI covert murder and terror campaign against the American Indian Movement people and the BIA covert and overt intimidation of Navajo people at Black Mountain — the genocide can be said to have entered a more surreptitious phase.
And how many millions of Africans died as a result of slavery? All of them, actually. If they died in slavery they died of slavery too. Their lives were stolen from them before they were born.
The slave trade was “justified” by demented, inhuman racism, but it was motivated by material greed. It was a business, like everything else in America’s bloody, ruthless history.
“The business of America is business” admitted President Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s. These days Presidents aren’t quite so open about that fact.
But a truly evil corporate plutocracy rules this country today just as surely as it did then. And America’s modern addiction to plundering the world has its historical roots in the theft of Indian land and the slavery of Africans. America’s wealth owes its origins in large measure to generations of African blood, sweat and tears. And to the land stolen from its original inhabitants.
The evil, genocidal origins of America are the best explanation for the evil, genocidal nature of modern-day America. This country started out rotten as hell. It has improved domestically, but it has gotten much worse internationally. And the vast majority of Americans are still in total denial as to the true nature of the country they live in. It doesn’t bode well for the future. You can’t cure a disease if you won’t even diagnose it honestly.

And
American Terrorism and Genocide of the Philippine People, 1899–1902
Adapted from the
Political Literacy Course
of the Common Courage Press
In 1898 the United States instigated a war with Spain for the purpose of stealing Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic and the Philippines from the decrepit remains of the evil old Spanish Empire. The Caribbean islands were conquered with ease, but in the faraway Philippines the U.S. military defeated Spain only with the help of Filipino nationalist guerrillas. The Filipinos supported American forces because the U.S. government had promised independence to them.
The U.S. government lied. Of course. It’s an American tradition.
Writes Gore Vidal in his book, The American Presidency:
“President William McKinley decided we ought to keep the Philippines in order to Christianize the natives. When reminded that Filipinos were already Roman Catholic, the president responded, ‘Exactly.’
“The United States betrayed the nationalists who had helped us fight Spain, and we began our own conquest.”
Once they realized they’d been had, the Phillipine people rose in revolt against American rule in February 1899. America unleashed it’s rabid military dogs on them, and 70,000 professional baby-killers (known euphemistically as American soldiers, marines and sailors), spent three years brutally crushing the rebellion. The death toll of Phillipine people was enormous, both from battle casualties and disease. An estimated 200,000 Phillipine men, women and children died horribly at the hands of racist American monsters.
Mark Twain was deeply disturbed by the sadistic war crimes committed by the evil U.S. military in a Vietnam-like genocide which lasted from 1899 to 1902. He was also disgusted with the virtually universal racism in which White Americans shamelessly wallowed throughout those benighted turn-of-the-century years. (The very years which moral Neanderthals in America even now call “The Good Old Days.”)
Twain cynically “saluted” America’s first international genocide “by suggesting that we replace the stars and stripes in our flag with the skull and crossbones.”
It remains an excellent suggestion to this day for the world’s greatest pirate nation.

— Mark Twain
sarcastically condemning American war crimes
in the Philippines
And so, by these Providences of God — and the phrase is the government’s, not mine — we are a World Power.”
And
1963
American/British Assassination of the Leader of Iraq
In July 1958, Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem overthrew the monarchy and established a republic. Though somewhat of a reformist, he was by no means any kind of radical. His action, however, awakened revolutionary fervor in the masses and increased the influence of the Iraqi Communist Party.
By April of the following year, CIA Director Allen Dulles, with his customary hyperbole, was telling Congress that the Iraqi Communists were close to a “complete takeover” and the situation in that country was “the most dangerous in the world today.” In actuality, Kassem aimed at being a neutralist in the Cold War and pursued rather inconsistent policies toward the Iraqi Communists, never allowing them formal representation in his cabinet, nor even full legality, though they strongly desired both. He tried to maintain power by playing the Communists off against other ideological groups.
A secret plan for a joint US-Turkish invasion of the country was drafted by the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly after the 1958 coup. Reportedly, only Soviet threats to intercede on Iraq’s side forced Washington to hold back. But in 1960, the United States began to fund the Kurdish guerrillas in Iraq who were fighting for a measure of autonomy and the CIA undertook an assassination attempt against Kassem, which was unsuccessful.
The Iraqi leader made himself even more of a marked man when, in that same year, he began to help create the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), which challenged the stranglehold Western oil companies had on the marketing of Arab oil; and in 1962 he created a national oil company to exploit the nation’s oil.
In February 1963, Kassem told the French daily, Le Monde, that he had received a note from Washington — “in terms scarcely veiled, calling upon me to change my attitude, under threat of sanctions against Iraq... All our trouble with the imperialists [the US and the UK] began the day we claimed our legitimate rights to Kuwait.” (Kuwait was a key element in US and UK hegemonic designs over mid-east oil.)
A few days after Kassem’s remarks were published, he was overthrown in a coup and summarily executed; thousands of communists were killed.
The State Department soon informed the press that it was pleased that the new regime would respect international agreements and was not interested in nationalizing the giant Iraq Petroleum Co., of which the US was a major owner. The new government, at least for the time being, also cooled its claim to Kuwait.
Papers of the British cabinet of 1963, later declassified, disclose that the coup had been backed by the British and the CIA
And
1965
American-backed Genocide of the Indonesian People
Estimated civilian deaths: 500,000 – 1,000,000 people
From Killing Hope
by William Blum:
A complex series of events, involving a supposed coup attempt, a counter-coup, and perhaps a counter-counter-coup, with American fingerprints apparent at various points, resulted in the ouster from power of Sukarno and his replacement by a military coup led by General Suharto. The massacre that began immediately — of Communists, Communist sympathizers, suspected Communists, suspected Communist sympathizers, and none of the above — was called by the New York Times “one of the most savage mass slayings of modern political history.” The estimates of the number killed in the course of a few years begin at half a million and go above a million.
It was later learned that the U.S. embassy had compiled lists of “Communist” operatives, from top echelons down to village cadres, as many as 5,000 names, and turned them over to the army, which then hunted those persons down and killed them. The Americans would then check off the names of those who had been killed or captured.
“It really was a big help to the army. They probably killed a lot of people, and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands,” said one U.S. diplomat. “But that’s not all bad. There’s a time when you have to strike hard at a decisive moment.”
Added note: To this day, Indonesia’s military and police forces continue to be one of America’s best customers for weapons, training, and torture devices.
And
And
and
So Nathan I Think the point Shiva is making is dont forget your history and make the same fouk ups

Posted by: hawkwind at January 10, 2005 5:26 AM

Nathan
First Siva ia jew
then a jew hater
make up your mind
I think shiva is more against irrelevant ranatics than America or the christian faith And is pointing out that evil has many more coloured coats than Jacob

Posted by: hawkwind at January 10, 2005 6:18 AM