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The director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City has issued a predictable reaction to the murders of Hossam Armanious and his family. From NorthJersey.com, with thanks to Lsattr:
Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran."We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."
Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.
"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."
Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.
Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."
Very few, eh? Well, it only takes one. In fact, Sura 47:4 does refer to "meeting the unbelievers in battle," but for Ahmed Shedeed to portray this as meaning only battle in warfare and not vigilante action ignores both modern events and the historical events. For example, take this story I recount in Islam Unveiled, from the Ottoman Empire of the late nineteenth century:
Then one night, my husband came home and told me that the padisha had sent word that we were to kill all the Christians in our village, and that we would have to kill our neighbours. I was very angry, and told him that I did not care who gave such orders, they were wrong. These neighbours had always been kind to us, and if he dared to kill them Allah would pay us out. I tried all I could to stop him, but he killed them — killed them with his own hand.
Then there is the 1998 declaration by Osama bin Laden and other leading jihadists of open season on Americans anytime, anyplace: "to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."
This fatwa is predicated on the assumption that Muslims everywhere are being warred against by the West. As such, a "battle" is raging at anytime, anywhere, and Qur'an 47:4 always applies.
If Ahmed Shedeed and his group really don't believe this, let them energetically cooperate with efforts to find the killer or killers and bring them the justice. But if I were in the FBI, I wouldn't be counting on their help.
Posted by Robert at January 16, 2005 4:59 PM
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"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."
Yeah right Mr Ahmed Shedeed, and Osama Bin Laden isn’t really a Moslem and he doesn’t really follow the actions of Mohammad ( the prophet who never really prophesied ) but who is really looking anyway?
I did notice that Mr Ahmed doesn’t deny that the perpetrators are Moslem,
he just tries to distance Islam from what will come off as a barbaric act committed by barbarians.
Mohammad would be proud, and lets not forget their other god, Beelzebub he is most happy.
More taqiyya please!
Posted by: Bar![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 16, 2005 5:56 PM
Then there is the 1998 declaration by Osama bin Laden and other leading jihadists of open season on Americans anytime, anyplace: "to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."
Osama Bin Laden should abrogate the use of the word 'military'.
He and the Moslem world have been proven incapable of assaulting anyone that is armed. Allah can only protect Moslems from unarmed women and children. Iraq and Afghanistan has shown how powerless their Allah and the prophet who couldn’t prophesy really is.
at January 16, 2005 6:04 PM
Muslims deny there is violence or incitement to kill in Quran.Of course Muhammed is supposed to be
'the PERFECT MAN' ... and 'Pigs will fly' before
Islam Reforms itself.
at January 16, 2005 6:11 PM
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life,"
Aaaccck!! Heeeelp! It's the pod people! They've taken over the Muslims!! Help, it's the body snatcherrrrssss!
;-)
at January 16, 2005 6:15 PM
I'd say he's a liar or he's experiencing---(perhaps he's trying to project it passive aggressively)
Cognitive Dissonance
http://www.meta-religion.com/New_religious_groups/Articles/Criticism/cognitive_dissonance.htm
Posted by: kentim at January 16, 2005 6:46 PM
The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Muslims deny that their religion is written in blood. They must have a script ready to read when "infidels ' are killed (with regularity, I might add).
Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 16, 2005 6:57 PM
I don't endorse the site I linked to, only the excerpt they used.
After browsing around there a little bit it looks like they suffer from cognitive dissonance too.Or leftist thought disorder. And they used Esposito and Armstrong as sources for their pathetic whitewashing of islam, course they took a couple of needle-jabs at Christianity during their discription of islam too.
I personally think the psychiatric/psychology industry has done more damage than good through history.
Posted by: kentim at January 16, 2005 7:24 PM
""We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all.""
Uh huh yeah sure. They must think we Westerners are ignorant of what they believe in. Are they ever so wrong.
Posted by: abad at January 16, 2005 7:41 PM
Kemaste... too funny. By chance, are you training for a high paid job as a future spokesperson for CAIR? After all the straws they grasp are gone, I'm sure that they'll call upon the ole "invasion of the muslim body snatchers theory".
Nothing can shock me now. "KofiKemaste" hahaha
Posted by: Just_Linda at January 16, 2005 7:43 PM
"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed,
No ass crack, your victims are.
And in Britain, Sheheed is right. They're not considered "bloody" people. Or, "bloody" human.
Posted by: Prickzilla at January 16, 2005 8:03 PM
APOLOGIZERS
DENIERS
PROPAGANDISTS
"There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
Posted by: Report at January 16, 2005 8:44 PM
They have been killing us back home for centuries and now they're doing it in the heart of the US. They cut the heads of Americans in Pakistan, Iraq, and in Saudi; and now they are here.
If the investigation proofs that, the theory of the chat room is the motive; what are we going to do, we must respond. This news must be broadcasted all over the country especially in the liberal news papers and TV, so the American people lift their heads from the sand and wake up, “Sleeper cells are waking up again.”
Ramses XII
at January 16, 2005 8:56 PM
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life,"
Oh. OK. Well that settles that I guess. Whew, that's a load off! What's on TV? All right, a reality show!
Posted by: CornHolio at January 16, 2005 9:37 PM
Yes, Ramses, they kill,
then they deny,
they pile lie upon lie,
a pyramid of skulls
obscuring the sky.
Yes, the sleeper cells
are waking up, mutating
like a malignant cancer,
they take over their host,
Yes we must respond,
the writers must write and incite,
the soldiers must drill and be ready to kill,
families must train their children
to understand that freedom is worth dying for
and the right to life,liberty and the pursuit
of happiness is our due, and that is true.
at January 16, 2005 9:43 PM
Associated Press has a dhimmi version that eliminates all references to religious extremism
http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/other/1110/1-14-2005/20050114170017_16.html
Here is an excerpt:
Emad Fahmy, 29, a cousin of the slain woman, described the victims as a "small, happy family - a religious family. They have no enemies."
Fahmy said Amal Garas was a letter carrier and her husband was a banquet server. The older girl - set to have a Sweet 16 party Saturday night - was active in the school drama department; Monica sang in the church choir.
Ayman Garas, brother of the slain woman, told reporters she was "a very peaceful person."
"She's got nothing against anybody," Garas said. "I have no answers."
Geez!
at January 16, 2005 10:00 PM
Yesterday some snob posted an incoherrent and painfully long-winded objection to Bat Ye'or's theory on the dhimminization of Europe,sneering that the radio show was sponsored in part by an add promoting creationism. I am an agnostic, but the fact that only Christian media are interested in this life-or-death issue only confirms for me the apalling moral poverty and ideological timidity of mainstream news.
Posted by: Rublev at January 16, 2005 10:10 PM
When the prophet Mohammad is not talking endlessly about his many wives' menstruation problems, he is cheering on killing killing killing. The Hadiths and Koran are a bloodbath recital, whooping for joy at their tricked and slaughtered infidel enemies. Mohammad even 'preached' to the pile of corpses of one group of victims about the superiority of Islam before their bodies were thrown down a well in triumphant desecration of their remains.
But, if "director" Shadeed says they "are not a bloody people" I guess I just have to disbelieve the words of the Koran and Hadiths, and assume that this ritualistic slaughter was simply one more random event. Unrelated to any of the other ritualistic slaughters, like that of film-maker Theo Van Gogh, or Mr. Berg in Iraq, or the scores and scores of others -that Muslims have been posting on their jihadi websites worldwide, and cheering on like Romans at the Coliseum.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the screen!"
Or perhaps self-hypnosis occurs when you bow too many times a day?
Posted by: profitsbeard at January 16, 2005 11:06 PM
Update....
The murdered man's cousin is the FBI translator working on the Lynne Stewart/Abdel Rahman terror case. Islamic connection....
Posted by: jawa at January 17, 2005 12:24 AM
Until just a short time ago, I knew very little about Islam but I assumed that since it is a religion practiced by millions of people, it would be similar to Christianity. Last month, a friend brought a bulletin home from her church that had some information about Islam and it also listed some websites and references to learn more about it.
My friend told me about what she had discovered and I could not believe it so I began my own investigation. I am so glad I did because now I am beginning to understand why we were attacked on September 11. This is an excellent website and I have spent hours reading the current articles, as well as the archives. I have learned so much and I am encouraging my family and friends to visit this site and the others.
I do not understand why the government permitted Islamic people to come to our country. After what I have learned about this evil cult, it should be illegal here and throughout the world. It is not a genuine religion and the Islamic people are inspired by the devil, not by God. How could this be called a religion that teaches people to worship God when all it teaches is hate, murder, and unspeakable horror? Islam is worse than devil worship.
The most frightening part of it all is that very few people know anything about Islam and would never believe it if you tried to tell them. I didn't until I found out for myself.
at January 17, 2005 1:27 AM
Carolyn2:
`The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.`
Unfortunately that`s not what mossies believe.
In plain words, the Qur’an says that one of the righteous men of God’s servants saw the sun set in a certain place of the earth—in particular a well full of water and mud. There, this man found some people. Let us read what is recorded in the Qur’an (chapter "the Cave", verse 86),
"When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: ‘O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness"’ (Surah 18:86).
Lest I failed to understand what the Qur’an meant by these strange words, I referred to the famous students of the Qur’an as well as to the ancient scholars. I discovered that all of them concurred with this rendering and said that Muhammad’s friends inquired about the sunset and that he gave them that answer. All the scholars such as the Baydawi, Jalalan, and Zamakhshari confirm it. The Zamakhshari remarks in his book, "the Kash-shaf",
"Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad’s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: ‘Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sets?’ He answered: ‘God and His apostle know better.’ Muhammad said: ‘It sets in a spring of slimy water"’ (3rd Edition, Volume 2 p. 743,1987).
http://answering-islam.org.uk/BehindVeil/btv6.html
Posted by: hutchrun at January 17, 2005 2:50 AM
koal: "Last month, a friend brought a bulletin home from her church that had some information about Islam and it also listed some websites and references to learn more about it ... I am so glad I did because now I am beginning to understand ..."
That makes my day. I glad to hear people are waking up to the Islamic threat and telling others. We don't have much access to the media so word-of-mouth is crucial. The web is really changing the flow of infomation. However, make sure your library has some good books to counter the propaganda. For example: Robert Spencer's "Islam Unveiled" is a great intro.
Posted by: JasonP at January 17, 2005 8:01 AM
A friend brought from church a hand-out for Koal!
Consider the significance of that. How many others got a copy of the same hand-out and haven't yet written, and who maybe never will but who are following this debate daily? It's thanks to our friends who pass out the word in churches and on street corners to those they know and associate with who bring us closer each day to our victory.
Forget the network television stations. Meet your neighbors. You are the media people believe. Koal is the medium people will believe. Every man and woman who stops to speak to you in person will have a greater effect on you than a thousand hours of BBC ONE. You will have a greater effect on men and women you meet than anything you'll witness on tv, too. You are the real media.
Posted by: sonofwalker at January 17, 2005 6:07 PM
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