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Any mention of the death threat the Armanious family received from a Muslim? Any mention of reports that Christian tattoos were sliced off the bodies? Any mention of other indications that this crime was religiously motivated?
No. Just the knee-jerk assumption that this is just another excuse to victimize Muslims. This unwillingness to deal fairly with the evidence is what arouses the very suspicions the people quoted here resent.
From AP, with thanks to Anthony:
JERSEY CITY, N.J. -- The dirty looks and shouted slurs started in 1993 after Muslims living here helped plan the bombing of the World Trade Center. They intensified on Sept. 11, 2001, when Muslim hijackers brought down the twin towers just across the Hudson River.Now a third wave of anti-Muslim sentiment is washing over New Jersey's second-largest city, sparked this time by reports that the murders of an Egyptian Christian man, his wife and two young daughters might have been carried out by Muslims angered over postings the man made in an Internet chat room.
The strife is particularly distressing in light of efforts the area's Muslim community made to reach out to other faiths and strengthen ties after the 9/11 attacks. Imams visited churches and synagogues. Joint prayer breakfasts and open houses were held. Muslim merchants visited the homes of their Christian and Jewish counterparts, and strongly denounced the terror attacks.
"We've been working for three years on getting Christians together with Muslims," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "Now much of that progress is gone. It is definitely going to be set back.
"I'm just sorry we weren't able to do more before this happened," he said. "If we had a stronger relationship, something like this would never have happened because then you'd have a window to talk to the other side."
The bodies of Hossam Armanious, a 47-year-old Coptic Christian, his 37-year-old wife, Amal Garas, and their daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were discovered last week in the family's home. They had been bound and gagged, and each was stabbed repeatedly in the neck and head.
Although prosecutors have stressed that robbery remains a possible motive in the case, many in this city's sizable Egyptian population believe the killings were religiously motivated.
For people like Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, the feeling is all too familiar.
"We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap," he said. "Why should we have to apologize for or make a defense of something we had nothing to do with? There is no proof at all that Muslims had anything to do with this, yet we are taking the blame again. Is Islam on trial, or is a killer on trial?"
No arrests have been made in the case.
After the killings, Muslims tried anew to mend fences, but the results were mixed, at best. Several attended the family's funeral, but a New York cleric had to be escorted from the church hall for his own protection after a heckler started shouting at him. Mourners engaged in several scuffles before and after the funeral, including one in which about 35 people pushed, shoved and traded punches in the street as others yelled anti-Islam slogans.
A few days later, Muslim leaders called a press conference designed as an interfaith rally to try to calm religious tensions, but Christian groups who were invited did not attend, citing a religious holiday of their own. A similar interfaith event planned for this Sunday, which had been in the works for months, had to be postponed due to expected bad weather.
The killings have spread fear among Coptic Christians far beyond Jersey City. Relatives of the Armanious family in Egypt blamed the killings on violence in American society and weak interpersonal relationships in this country. On Long Island, N.Y., members of the St. Abraam's Coptic Orthodox Church in Woodbury said the killings appeared to be "a religiously motivated hate crime against Coptic Christians."
"A lot of families are feeling the fear and terror that comes along with something like this," said Maged Riad, a church member. "They got them in their home in the middle of the night. People want to know they can be safe in their own homes."...
Suzanne Loutfy, a Muslim leader of the Egyptian-American Group, asked people not to blame Islam if the killers are found to be Muslim.
"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."
People commit crimes that are motivated by religion. That has to be faced.
CORRECTION: There is a great deal of confusion surrounding this case, with contradictory reports. The Hudson County Prosecutors Office has stated that the tattoos were in fact not defaced. I have also just received confirmation of that from an informed source.
Posted by Robert at January 21, 2005 5:52 AM
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I think the Copts who were butchered had to endure somewhat more "cr_p" and suffering than the complaining Muslims are now. I would much prefer being disappointed about low attendances at meetings I would ever organise than being mutilated to death. But then again that is just silly old me.
To remedy this inexplicable problem of low attendances at such Muslim organised interfaith meetings I recommend that much more Muslims worldwide stop trying to commit mass murder and every other atrocity known to man at the individual, community, state and global level while screaming Allah akbar and reciting numerous Islamic passages from the Koran that they wave around their heads in a maniacal rage. If enough Muslims and Islamic states globally can do this especially after such interfaith meetings attendances may improve.
Posted by: obl r us![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 21, 2005 7:21 AM
I like how this Muslims says they are sick and tired of defending themselves, but meanwhile more and more Americans are thinking that we must take away their civil liberties (see link below). If this Muslim knew what was coming down the pike (internment, deportation, etc.), he would take every opportunity to defend himself cogently--and be glad for the chance to do so instead of complaining about it.
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Dec04/Muslim.Poll.bpf.html
Fear factor: 44 percent of Americans queried in Cornell national poll favor curtailing some liberties for Muslim Americans
Posted by: markjames at January 21, 2005 8:07 AM
What more can you say? A good example of taqqiya (us poor oppressed peaceful folks - "we even reached out to the Christian community") and the willing idiots in the media who accept it.
Posted by: ortho_man at January 21, 2005 8:57 AM
Suzanne Loutfy, a Muslim leader of the Egyptian-American Group, asked people not to blame Islam if the killers are found to be Muslim.
"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."
To paraphrase Robert's closing comment, what about religions that sanction criminal acts in the name of religion?
Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 21, 2005 9:04 AM
"The strife is particularly distressing in light of efforts the area's Muslim community made to reach out to other faiths and strengthen ties after the 9/11 attacks."
"We've been working for three years on getting..."
A prime example of why this is an arrogant "religion" that does NOT police itself. Too bad it wasn't a 3 years' post-9/11 effort at reforming the Quran, reforming radical Imams and radical preaching, radical financial support, at removing "front" groups like CAIR, all a prime example of why I say that ALL of Islam plays the propaganda game and good luck finding a "moderate."
There is no such thing as a moderate. Spiritual legalism and hatred is taught from an early age. Defensiveness, excuses, apologetics, spin-doctoring, word-games, and psychological communication manipulation are the normal and frequent reactions from those who follow Islam. If you have a Muslim friend that is a "moderate" I ASSURE you that you are not spiritually respected by that Muslim friend anywhere near what you think.
Posted by: Report at January 21, 2005 10:47 AM
Not too long ago(sometime in 2004) I read an article in the Daily Record(a regional NJ paper serving Morris County). It was an article about Paterson, a city in Jew Jersey that has a large muslim community and there were allegations by the muslim community of intolerance toward them. The article also mentioned in passing that several of the 9-11 hijackers stayed in Paterson and even attended local mosques, but the reporters never pursued this angle, it was not a failure of the muslim community to detect and report these foreign terrorists, this article made local non-muslims into intolerant failures abusing the unenviable muslims after 9-11.
Another thing I learned in 2004 is that on Webster Avenue in Uniondale, NY a rape occured, as I heard about it briefly on television during the news. The news report on TV only had a brief description of the event, but since I lived years ago on this same Webster Avenue it piqued my interest. From searching on Google News at the time I learned more details. The raped 21 year old was dragged in a headlock four blocks to Webster avenue and raped in someone's backyard on that street. After that rape he dragged her seven blocks more to California Avenue School(used to go to elementary school there) and raped her once again. I noticied that in all the websites of news stations like Abcnews and Foxnews no mention that the rapist was African American was made, even though one of them had a sketch of a black man in their writeup. Only the New York Post mentioned the rapist was African American, because catching rapists by giving an accurate description is not important compared to not offending people today.
The media is a failure, they are more concerned not in reporting rapes accurately, not in describing the Armanious family being slaughtered like lambs at Ramadan, or in taking to task the muslims of Paterson for failing to notice terrorists living among their community, they are concerned with being politically correct. The price of not offending people has come at the sacrifice of reality. Allegations by muslim Americans that are not verified are reported everyday, but facts that may or may not bother any minority are not likely to surface or be pursued. The price of our mythical tolerance, is only sacrificing reality.
Posted by: Nikephoros_Phokas at January 21, 2005 11:08 AM
If they want us to stop "persecuting" them, then why don't they just stop **killing us**? I don't suppose this ever occurred to the idiot who wrote this article.
Posted by: Suzan at January 21, 2005 12:12 PM
They cannot defend themselves. The evidence is too great. This should indicate to them that their fake supreme being and his little toad prophet fail miserably at protecting them.
Posted by: Prickzilla at January 21, 2005 12:14 PM
"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."
PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES; RELIGIONS DON'T.
I think that is an important point and I wish Mr. Spencer or Hugh would take that statement and explain how religions CAN commit crimes.
Such as teaching children to hate others; such as preaching murder as a way to enter heaven; such as teaching men to commit crimes against women; such as teaching that Muslims cannot be friends with un-believers, regardless of how much charity they are shown; such as people who leave the religion should be killed, etc. etc.
Islam does commit crimes against humanity when it instills hate and the desire to murder in the hearts of it's citizens for purely religious reasons.
And that's the problem.
at January 21, 2005 12:37 PM
"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."
Apparently the Left has yet to learn that also, re people like kj who wants everyone to associate Christianity with scum like Hitler and the KKK... despite the fact that these people are taking things out of context for their own purposes.
Posted by: Gary at January 21, 2005 2:48 PM
There is no way that muslims can live in peace with anyone- and that sometimes includes muslims as well.
We had better start getting used to more incidents of such ritual slaughter. This is bound to happen in the near term, as Americans take for granted, that the first amendment grants them freedom of speech. But after several such slaughters of American infidels, they will learn, that the first amendment is not absolute and is restricted by shariia.
We have put the survival of our civilisation on a gamble that muslims can be peaceful and tolerant. It is a bet that we are going to lose. That unfortunately is the sad situation we have brought ourselves to.
Our peace will never be regained till muslims are either expelled from the West, or exchanged for the terribly persecuted Christians in muslim nations. The last option is perhaps the least bloody of all, as other options are going to be bloody beyond imagination, as this war is not going to end in a 'nice' manner. And in the final analysis, the victor will implement expulsions of one sort or another anyway.
at January 21, 2005 5:48 PM
The Government in Canada is looking at allowing Sharia-law for Muslim females and the
proponents are mostly Muslim males that are insisting Shria will protect females.
Several people that have opposed Sharia have been threatened by Muslims that want Sharia,also "Racism" and "Islamophobia" have been the new mantra for groups like CAIR and the CIC .
It's amazing how easily Muslims get their feelings hurt and expect 5 billion non-Muslims on Earth to adjust their lives to appease these whiners.
at January 22, 2005 3:45 PM
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