A Bloody Crime in New Jersey Divides Egyptians
By ANDREA ELLIOTT

Published: January 21, 2005

JERSEY CITY, Jan. 20 - Muslim and Christian students of Egyptian descent suddenly no longer sit together during lunch at Dickinson High School on Palisade Avenue. At Halal butcher shops and Christian-owned grocery stores, sales clerks speak in equally hushed tones about the unsolved murder last week of a Christian Egyptian family, wary of who may be listening.

And friendships that were once free of religious division are now strained, in ways subtle and blunt, as speculation that four members of the family were killed because of their religion has run rampant, even though there have been no official findings by the authorities.

For years, Mohsen Elesawi, a Muslim Egyptian, shared shisha pipes and games of chess with Christian Egyptians at the Christian-owned El Saraya cafe on Vroom Street. Now, when he walks into the room, he often hears a quiet pause, "like a subject change," he said.

"Now there is no trust between Muslims and Christians and there is a lot of anger," said Mr. Elesawi, 52, a limousine driver who immigrated to Jersey City 21 years ago. "It's changed dramatically."

In the words of Fakher Fahmy, 53, a Christian Egyptian who owns a construction company in Jersey City, Muslims and Christians "spoke as friends" before the murders. "Now everybody is scared of everybody," he said.

For decades, Jersey City has been an experiment in peace between Muslims and Christians from Egypt. At odds in their homeland, the two groups had bonded as immigrants, mingling at the same cafes, schools and taxi stands, glued by one language and national identity. They shared eagerly in forging a new, American life.

But in the week since four family members, including an 8-year-old girl, were found in their home here with their throats slit, a centuries-old rift has come to the surface.

To the outsider, the extent of vitriol and near-paranoia provoked by the slayings seems hard to fathom: the police have yet to make an arrest and believe that robbery was a motive. Still, in the days after the four victims were found bound, gagged and stabbed to death, the scant known facts of the case have been supplanted by a swirl of rumor and innuendo that the victims were the targets of Muslims, leading to scenes of chaos at the funeral, with mourners shoving each other and threatening to beat a sheik who attended.

The murder case, while tragic on its own, has opened a wound and produced an outpouring of emotion that even Egyptian Christians and Muslims struggle to explain. The answer is layered: there are old-world grievances, a largely unspoken anger toward Egyptian Muslims after 9/11, and a newfound immigrant power that has left the Egyptian Christians - a repressed minority in Egypt - unafraid to assert their voice here.

The murder victims - Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8 - were Copts, or members of the Coptic Orthodox church. In Egypt, Muslims are the majority and Copts, who are roughly 10 percent of the population, live with varying degrees of social, political and religious discrimination, according to the United States State Department and human rights groups.

But in Jersey City, which has the largest Coptic Egyptian community in the United States, Copts are estimated to outnumber Muslims, and the balance of power between them is more equal.

Many Copts, along with Muslims, have enjoyed financial success. Fred Ayad, a Copt who left Cairo for Jersey City 35 years ago, rose to become deputy mayor. And Copts from all walks of life, from surgeons to cab drivers, will attest that in America, they have found a new social comfort. They no longer live on the margins of society: they are among the religious majority.

But if anything altered that newfound comfort, and helped stoke the recent friction over the murder case, it was Sept. 11.

Muslims in the United States were not alone in suffering a social backlash. Arabs of other religions have also been subjected to hate crimes, searches at airports, loss of jobs and other problems experienced by Muslims after the attacks. But that shared distress has wrought some hard and painful realities within the Arab community, with non-Muslims wishing to distance themselves from Muslims.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/21/nyregion/21rift.html

Posted by: Andrew at January 21, 2005 7:39 AM

My above links does not work, maybe this one....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/21/nyregion/21rift.html

Posted by: Andrew at January 21, 2005 7:40 AM

The story is pasted above in its entirety anyway.

Posted by: Andrew at January 21, 2005 7:42 AM

As a memorial for this family of our Coptic community, we have set up an online memorial where everyone can share their words of love and read others' words of consolotion and hope.

http://www.copticchurch.net/

Posted by: Andrew at January 21, 2005 7:48 AM

i am no fan of the new york times, however, please look at page two of the article you mention. "Almost immediately, rumors flew: Mr. Armanious had engaged in fiery debates about Christianity and Islam in Internet chat rooms, and may have been threatened with murder, his friends said. The police would not confirm or deny that, but discounted newspaper reports that a tattoo of a cross on Sylvia Armanious's wrist had been stabbed." just a heads up

Posted by: daniel at January 21, 2005 10:06 AM

Well, Andrea, why in the world might anybody give any thought to the Muslims being involved in the murders? Could it be the fact that a threat had been made? Could it be the method in which each person was killed? Might it be, that during the commission of this "robbery," as I understand it -NOTHING WAS STOLEN!

As for Andrea, she waits until the tenth paragraph before she actually gets around to mentioning the people who were killed. Andrea, the dead people - THEY'RE THE VICTIMS! Are we so afraid of the people who want to kill us that we will let them go at it, and while they're doing so, try not to offend them? To answer my own question, apparently, yes.

Muslims tell her they have suffered since 9/11, and that is the becomes the story. In fact, everybody from that part of the world seems to be a victim. How do we know? Andrea told us. If that is true, Andrea, while you were doing your heavy duty research for this article - and we know people from the Times never fake researching articles - how many non-Muslims are members of the famous whining organization CAIR? I mean, if there are more Christian Egyptians than Muslim Egyptians in New Jersey, there must be more Christian members of CAIR in New Jersey than Muslims. Right?

Posted by: RIslander at January 21, 2005 10:22 AM

A Bloody Crime in New Jersey Divides Egyptians
By ANDREA ELLIOTT

Published: January 21, 2005

JERSEY CITY, Jan. 20 - Muslim and Christian students of Egyptian descent suddenly no longer sit together during lunch at Dickinson High School on Palisade Avenue. At Halal butcher shops and Christian-owned grocery stores, sales clerks speak in equally hushed tones about the unsolved murder last week of a Christian Egyptian family, wary of who may be listening

NO THEY SHOULD BE SCREAMING DO NOT LET THIS FAMILY DIE IN VAIN?? FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE AND MUST BE FOUGHT FOR IT CAN NOT BE GIVEN??

ALL THOSE SHOPS SHOULD NOW HAVE HAM HANGING AT THE ENTRANCES AND ALL OVER THE CEILINGS!!

MAKE THEM UN-WELCOME THIS IS THE FRIST MISTAKE TO WELCOME THE WOLF INTO THE HEN HOUSE!!!

THESE PEOPLE KNOW BETTER THAN ANY OF US WHAT WOLFS THEY ARE??

Why did the Mulsum not show up for the prayer service today was there nothing good in the qu-ran to tell the American People??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Evil give the World Courage to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen

Posted by: Catherine at January 21, 2005 2:58 PM

Even if Copies of the koran had been found on the bodies and the murderers had scrawled Arabic jihadist statements on the walls, the NYT would still not have suggested that this MIGHT have been a jihadist killing.
And even if they had, they would have laid the blame on the victims for being pious Christians.
Nothing has changed since along with the communists journalist sympathisers, they deliberately lied about Stalin's enforced faminines in the Ukraine all those years ago.

Posted by: george at January 21, 2005 6:37 PM

It seems as if the Times beleives that unease between Chrisitian and Muslims is the worst aspect of this case, rather than a butchered family.

I'm afraid this family is unfortunate and the case will be allowed to go cold because of its unsavory politcally incorrect implications. The police have already indicated they are looking the other way. A robbery?! Gimme a break!

Posted by: melati at January 21, 2005 7:18 PM

I want more evidence but it sure looks like an Islamic murder when a family gets their throats slit. And at the same time frame as Eid where Muslims are slaughtering sheep and other animals the same way. In a pagan ritual, an orgy of animal sacrifice, same as those crazy Santeria voodoo cultists. Kill 2 chickens and see me in the morning

Posted by: dennisw at January 21, 2005 7:19 PM

I am not going to bother with predictions of what kinds of reactions will be witnessed if ever it comes out the perpetrators were indeed using lies, pretending to convert to christianity in order to gain access to the victims home.
Personally I could care less how much the muslims whine about the kind of treatment they are now recieving. It ain't bad yet. As a majority they've heaped this on their own heads for not showing a strong distaste and willingness to fight against the violence that is creeping into every area of democratic or western culture.

I have no compassion for the muslims, they came here with one intent. To claim our democratic way of life dead, place us under shari'a, dead or converted by force.
My sentiments? To hell with them all

Posted by: mshyde at January 21, 2005 8:06 PM

It's truely amazing that while CAIR and some Muslims love to declare that you're innocent until proven guilty and quickly denounce any link
to Islam when a perceived Muslim based crime is committed. CAIR was the first out of the gate to post a condemnation and demand a investigation in to Iraq prisoners abuse,this was while unidentified "Hooded" people appeared in digital
photo's ( remember Forest Gump meeting Kennedy,Johnson and Nixon. It must be real RIGHT? ) that "ALLEGED" this type of action was the norm. CAIR and Mr.Hooper (Dougie to his old buddies befor turning Muslim) weren't the least bit interested in the leagal "Due prosses" for American non-Muslims and were ready to form a posse to linch a few infidels and by-pass the non-Islamic Justice system.
Have we forgotten the absurb rants by Islamic groups that the beheading videos were faked and really produced in Gitmo by the CIA or a "Zionist" based secret group.
Yes I too would like to see evidence to confirm
the connection of Islam to this Muhammed-like
slaying,but innocence is the assumtion in the Courtroom by the Judge and not by the Police.
Does Hooper and CAIR expect that every time a person is about to be arrested there should be a trial to confirm the arrest so there can be a trial to PROVE the guilt?

BTW,for CAIR to assume that all the prisoners were Muslims even though Iraq had a decent size Christian population is actually a compliment to the non-Muslims there,I guess Hooper knew deep down inside that Jesus taught peace and brotherly love while Muhammed and the Quran seek revenge and global domination by Sharia law under Islamic submission for all humans.

Thanks Hooper,you confirmed what I expected every since the 9/11 slaughter in the name of Islam,a thief is usually the first to accuse someone of a theft since that's what they do and assume everyone else does it,so assuming the "Hooded" Iraqis in the pix were Muslims just means that you see Muslims as predisposed to violence and therefor must have been the victims
in the alleged abuse.

Muhammed can GOGH to hell!

Posted by: ala-sux at January 21, 2005 8:32 PM

This is what the mulsums believe??

Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”

Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.”

Tabari VII:150 “I had tied my prisoner’s thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. ‘Well done!’ he said, and prayed for me to be blessed.”

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

THIEVERY & SLAVERY:
Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Tabari VII:65 “Allah’s Messenger came back to Medina, bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists.... There were forty-four captives in the Messenger of Allah’s possession. There was a similar number of dead.”

Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”

Qur’an 4:94 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah’s Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!’ Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty.”

PEACE, ISLAM STYLE:
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.’”

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”

Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”

Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”

Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”

Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”

Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]

Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. Some of the Bedouins look upon their payments (for Allah’s Cause) as a fine and wish disasters to fall on you (so that they might not have to pay). Yet on them be the disaster of evil.”

Tabari IX:13 “Muhammad turned to see Umm, a pregnant woman, who said, ‘O Messenger! Kill those [Muslims] who flee from you as you kill those who fight you, for they deserve death. Here is my dagger. If any come near me I will rip them up and slit open their belly with it.’”

MURDER:

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”

Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”

Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”

Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”

Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”

Tabari VIII:181 “The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim.”

Ishaq:403 “Allah killed twenty-two polytheists at Uhud.”

DECEPTION:

Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”

Qur’an 47:24 “Do they not understand the Qur’an? Nay, on the hearts there are locks preventing them from understanding.”

Qur’an 5:101 “Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.”

Qur’an 5:102 “Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account they lost their faith and became disbelievers.”

Qur’an 13:27 “Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.’”

INTOLERANCE:

Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

Ishaq:262 “Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur’an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse.”

Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”

For those of you who don't know what they are about this is a sample??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Posted by: Catherine at January 21, 2005 11:25 PM