This from Kamal Nawash today:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/GuestColumns/Nawash20050301.shtml

Posted by: Gary at March 1, 2005 6:42 AM

Nothing is what it seems...The only thing we can rely on is change... The West is decadent, degenerated, corrupt, without morals. Our young have a spiritual void since organized religion has lost its grip, there is no substitute, but lo and behold:

One thing that never changed in 1300 years is Islam!
Barbaric from the beginning,ruthless in conquest, primitive and bizarre, here is something that claims to be for real:The 'religion of peace!' 'Allah who is merciful and compassionate..'

For that reason Iran needs the bomb. So far they don't have it, therefor it is 'haram'. Once they have it, it's 'Allah's will!'
It is Allah's will that they shall use it aginst Infidels and Jews...

Sheik Yer'mami says: Give them our bomb first, before they drop theirs on us!

http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html

Posted by: Terminator at March 1, 2005 7:05 AM

The west is degenerate corrupt and without morals? I don't think so. I think that the west is very moral, decent and the creativity and energy with which people in the west live their lives is very spiritual.

STOP BASHING THE WEST.

Posted by: Voltaire at March 1, 2005 7:13 AM

Voltaire:

I am not bashing the West, this is what THEY -Islamics- say about us. I thought it was obvious when I wrote that!

And YES again: We have nothing in common with Islam, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that Islam can contribute to make our world a better place. Quite the opposite.

Trouble is:

We know that, -They don't, and they are eager to kill for the sake of ideology wrapped up in hijab and disguised as religion...

And since Islam can not change, will not change, we must separate ourselves from infiltration of Islamics who are over-running our countries, who disrespect our culture, who have nothing to show in the arts, in science, in medicine, in ANYTHING at all, but come to us with hatred and demands. This has to stop.

And STOP it we will!

Posted by: Terminator at March 1, 2005 7:35 AM

Sorry Terminator.

I didn't peruse your post as carefully as I should have.

Posted by: Voltaire at March 1, 2005 7:55 AM

Terminator says "We have nothing in common with Islam"....but that is not what he meant to say really.

What Mr. T means is that "We want nothing to be in common with Islam " and that is part of the problem here....you don't want to see the good in Islam that 1.2 billion people see.

Mr T. also says "Islam can contribute to make our world a better place" and this statement that I can agree with, Islam provides a spiritual nourishment with discipline that simply does not exist in the West in any significant number.

Islam is the beginning and the end, it is birth and death, it has a timeless quality about it.

A lot depend on your viewpoint, learn about it, let it wash over you, after all why should the muslim always be blamed for lack of integration, seen from our viewpoint equally you could blame Westerners for not integrating into Islam, "the cat" has made the transition and he is very happy.

The Iranians are correct to the extent that life and the way you live it is not a one way street that only leads to the West.

Posted by: Naseem at March 1, 2005 8:09 AM

Naseem~ Iranian people like these? :

http://www.ojr.org/ojr/glaser/1073610866.php

http://weblogs.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=weblogs&zu=http://freethoughts.org/

http://weblogs.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=weblogs&zu=http://iranian-girl.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Gary at March 1, 2005 8:31 AM

Nasseem:

Thanks, but no thank you for 'inviting' me to join your cult.

For not 'wanting to see the good in Islam that 1.2 billion people see'... Well, I went out to buy shades, I guess it was all a bit too bright for me...

Naseem, I travelled extensively in Islamic countries, I lived in some of them for extended periods of time and I found NOTHING, NOTHING at all that I want or need in any of them! With great sadness I noticed that in Indonesia, where I spend quite a bit of time 30 years ago among friendly, happy people without hijab or other Islamic dress codes, today I see nothing but intimdated, fearful people looking away and many others giving me the evil eye of Mohammeds hatred.

'Spiritual nourishment with discipline'- I leave that to Hugh Fitzgerald to answer, he'l fix you up on this one. (He always does)

Islam is a dead end. Plenty of birth and plenty of death, but with little value for anyone.

Given that enlightenment eludes most of your people
(Or wouldn't you confirm that about 80 per cent of Muslims are illiterate) and that Islamic indoctrination leaves absolutely no room for academic inquest or deeper philosophical discourse of any sort, your people live in the dark ages and will stay there unless you leave this perverted Ideology behind!

Therefore: You have nothing to show for in 1300 years but conquest and booty, oppression, slavery and Sharia, mutilation, infibulation, honor killings and all the rest, and you want to sell that to me?

'The cat' as you call him,- is most likely a paedophile, and that is exactly why he does what he does. Sooner or later he'll be in the slammer too...

Posted by: Terminator at March 1, 2005 8:42 AM

This is absolutely fascinating information on the psychology of upper-level shiites. We now need a more comprehensive statement about the general psychology of muslims in the Middle East to see whether this is more general as well. Having known a few muslims from that area personally, I rather suspect it would be.

The Quran makes some noise about 'honoring agreements' and all, but seems as if the mullahs have taken the interpretation they prefer. Unfortunately, even the best interpretation still leaves much to be desired.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at March 1, 2005 8:44 AM

It seems that intellectuals everywhere agree that as long as we maintained the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction, Communism wasn't much of a threat. This is in stark contrast to Islam, which seeks out, finances, and encourages as much destruction and misery possible.

Too bad "we" decided that "we" should support Islam (a la Afghanistan and Pakistan) at the expense of Communism. Oh well; no big deal I guess. After all, nothing ever came of those mujahadin in Afghanistan and Pakistan in the 80's, right?

Posted by: kj at March 1, 2005 9:01 AM

kj, you Are correct!

Manifesting the same misunderstanding of the real nature of Islamic radicalism that still dogs the State Department and other agencies today, Brzezinski embarked on a plan to strengthen Islamic radicalism for the geopolitical ends of the day. According to political analysts and Iran experts Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi and Elio Bonazzi, Brzezinski “instituted a plan to train fundamentalist Afghan Islamic mujahidin fighters in Pakistan under CIA supervision” — for which Carter’s successor Ronald Reagan is often blamed. Zand-Bonazzi and Bonazzi also point out that “the other major Islamist terrorist force active today is also the product of misguided policies of the Carter administration, which deliberately destroyed the Shah of Iran and allowed the Islamic Revolution to take place. Hamas and Hizbollah are direct emanations of the Islamic Republic of Iran, responsible for killing hundreds of Americans (recall the 1984 attacks on the US embassy and the Marine barracks in Beirut) and Israelis.” Although Hamas and Hizbollah existed before Khomeini, he was instrumental in their becoming and remaining significant forces.

And Khomeini owed his own political life to Carter. As the peanut President himself put it when Pahlavi made a final appeal for help to regain his throne in February 1979, “F—k the Shah.”

Posted by: Gary at March 1, 2005 9:14 AM

To those who want to understand Iran:
Islam is a foreign and FORCED religion for all Iranians and 90% of Islamic countires.
Something to ponder on: Why almost all Muslim countries are almost 100% Muslim?

If Islam did not torture or kill the apostates and their families and their kids, I wonder how many Iranians will start burring Korans for the “chaharshabeh sorrie” which is the last Wednesday of the year where Iranians start bon fires and jump over the fire singing songs of health and prosperity, a tradition Iranians will always keep.
The biggest threat to Iran and the world is islam. Iranians are free to choose whatever religion they like as the true father of Iran Cyrus the Great made the first declaration of human rights and freedom of religion 800 years before the sick Islamics invaded Iran, and to this day Iranians are paying for it.
The mullahs are after power and after destroying Iran and the world. They are one the major sources of evil and terrorism in the world. There are about 3000 to maybe 5000 mullahs. I wonder if Iranians will ever miss them if somehow they disappeard.

Posted by: bigdoor at March 1, 2005 9:42 AM

bigdoor,

are you of Persian origin or do you have any personal relationship to that wonderful country? I am speaking of the Sassanidian Iran.

If yes, could you give us more information about Iranian oppostion parties in the West?

Posted by: nippon at March 1, 2005 9:50 AM

I thought that this article was very interesting, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I would say that there are weaknesses to Western Society, such as excessive pornography, elitism, perhaps to much pursuit of wealth, but all in all I think it is quite a good system. I am immensely proud of the way we have dealt with racism and tried to develop a global village with individual rights.

However I am also sad to see that in this we have become blinded to the dangers that Islam brings with it.

I think that the politicians are aware of the danger, however the Islamics are using our system rather well at this point.

The issue for me is the support structure within our socities funded by Saudi Arabian oil money, this prop must be removed to enable the secular minded immigrants to see the light and reject this death-cult. That is the struggle that we must work on and I see action starting. I have read that 200,000 British Muslims have rejected their faith, and if this is true than this has to be good news

I watch with a certain amount of amazement as Iran gets closer to developing and using a nuclear bomb, there is one certainty, when they have the bomb, they will use it. Iran is quite tightly controlled by the Revolutionary Guard, I really can not see anyway that the normal people can win alone. But sending in our troops will further polerize the Islamic world (though going from 90% hatred of the West to whatever makes little difference.)

I think that small surgical strikes to take out their leadership and their nuclear programme are necessary now. Russia is now about to give them what they want, I expect during the chaos that occurs Russia will take advantage by dealing with its own Islamic problem in a most Russian way...

The other issue is that the chaos in Iraq from such a move would cause the death of many US soldiers.

Anyway, I expect a nuclear bomb to be set off in the West within the next 5 years if nothing is done to stop Iran's programme.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 1, 2005 9:53 AM

An intelligent propaganda effort should be made not to merely denounce the corruption of particular Muslim clerics, and not only the direct imposition of Islam in politics and the social order, but to emphasize Islam as an Arab import, one which throughout Iranian history has also been a force for arabization.

Firdowsi, a kind of national poet, has been seen as helping, through the Shahnameh, withstand the linguistic imperiallism of the Arabs. That interpretation needs little encouragement. Most of Persian literature can be interpreted as of interest (Hafiz, Sa'adi, Khayyam, etc.) not because it embodies Islamic values, but because it ignores them. The same is true of Persian miniatures. What one is left with is some Qur'anic calligraphy and some mosques. That's it. The mental yoke of Islam must be seen for what it is: an Arab import, embodying 7th or 8th century Arab customs and manners (the Sunnah), a text that was cobbled together from the sacred texts of the two prior monotheisms with a residue of Arab pagan lore, and a vehicle over the centuries for Arab imperialism.

Let anything at all -- a return to Zoroastrianism (call the Iranian television program "Roots"), Christianity, or disbelief -- it doesn't matter, as long as there is no possiblity of a return to what Iran has endured for the past quarter-century. And as the example next door of Turkey shows, even the most systematic effort to constrain Islam will not be enough (as Islam slips its Kemalist knots as Erdogan keeps up a mountebank's patter to divert the Infidel world's attention); there has to be not a "moderate" Islam but a sufficient number of people leaving Islam altogether, if the real lesson of the Islamic Republic of Iran is to be learned.

Posted by: Hugh at March 1, 2005 10:04 AM

A great read. This is a perfect day for Banafsheh.

Posted by: Miss Moneypenney at March 1, 2005 10:06 AM

Naseem:

You are so funny. Yes, Islam does offer people positive things from the point of view of human psychological needs. Like any cult, it gives people a sense of belonging (a community of believers), actual material benefits (fellow cult members help each other out if they need money, a job, a wife, etc.), an explanation for the universe and their place in it, a code of conduct for relating to their fellow Muslims which is, well, what it is and, finally, it gives them a purpose in life which is to bring the whole world to Islam. These are the benefits of almost any religious cult. However, the most serious problems that Islam has are in how it teaches Muslims to deal with non-Muslims and how its supersessionist (we must bring the whole world to Islam) theological position is not just about "persuading" people to become Muslim but using actual physical violence (the greater Jihad)to bring the world the "peace" of Islam.

Naseem:

Really, do us all a favor and read the following:

Animal Farm by George Orwell

Available free here:

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/animalfarm/

1984 by George Orwell

Available free here:

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

Available free here:

http://www.online-literature.com/aldous_huxley/brave_new_world/

Then, read John Stuart Mill's On Liberty

Available free here:

http://www.bartleby.com/130/

And, then, come back and we'll talk.

Posted by: Mentat at March 1, 2005 10:28 AM

Oh and Naseem, why don't you read this excellent letter from an Iranian apostate; and, then you can try and found out who I am and try to kill me. For, of course, an infidel who seeks to lead a Muslim away from Islam should be killed. Right, Naseem?

Yours truly,

A TRUE "ENEMY OF GOD"

Mentat

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/ApostateSuccess50226.htm

Free At Last
2005/02/26

Apostate Success

I was born in an Islamic country to Muslim parents, but I was raised in the United States. Throughout my life, I considered myself to be a Muslim, and I maintained a large arsenal of uninformed apologies, explanations, and blind denials to promote and defend Islam. Of course, I had never once read the Qur'an, and I had relied exclusively on what I heard from my parents, my relatives, my Muslim friends, and the Islamic media.

Then one day, at the age of 26, I decided to read the Qur'an so that I could become a "better Muslim." The first three pages alone shocked me with their illogic and obvious contradictions with the constant claim that Allah was the "most merciful" and "most compassionate," but I closed my eyes, gritted my teeth, held on tightly, and pushed ahead with absolute certainty that it would all be explained and would get better. However, it only got worse -- much worse. After reading the Qur'an, I realized that I couldn't possibly endorse Islam as a religion, as a philosophy, as a moral standard, as an ethical code, or even as useful fiction. I determined that these philosophies and this image of Allah could only come from an extremely warped and disturbed person who suffered from an aggregation of the most severe and profound human weaknesses.

Since 1996, I've read and re-read the Qur'an and the Hadiths (which are even worse than the Qur'an), and I've always reached the same conclusion -- Islam is an absolute disaster for the entire world, for Christians, for Jews, for pagans, for atheists, for women, for children, and, most of all, for Muslims themselves.

I've discussed Islam's fundamental weaknesses endlessly with many relatives and friends, and nobody has ever been able to respond in any meaningful way. Nobody has ever been able to manufacture any legitimate story that indicates that Islam is a useful or positive force on this earth. From the Islamic apologists, I hear that somehow the Jews are responsible for my betrayal. I hear that I've been "brainwashed" by the media, which, according to them, is Jewish. I hear that I need to understand Islamic "history" to understand that the unlimited illogic, cruelty, internal inconsistency, and injustice. I hear that somebody, somewhere in some distant Islamic country could validly answer my questions, but the people I speak with can say only that there is some good explanation, but that they don't know enough to tell me. Of course, when those allegedly wise Muslims appear, they themselves can't possibly answer the questions and they play the same game -- it's the Jews, it's the media, I don't know enough Islamic history to understand, and they know somebody 8,000 miles away who could explain it all to me. Ultimately, nobody can sufficiently explain how the Qur'an is anything other than arbitrary, cruel, unjust, evil, and riddled with evidence that it is based on the most profound human weaknesses. I don't use those terms lightly or imprecisely or emotionally. As a matter of dispassionate fact, Islam -- as written in the Qur'an -- is arbitrary, cruel, unjust, and evil, and it contains endless conclusive evidence that the founder of this "religion" suffered from the most intense form of the worst human weaknesses on earth.

Of course, my life has improved drastically since I actually read the Qur'an and realized the obvious human weaknesses from which it originated. I sincerely hope that all Muslims will read the Qur'an and simply think about whether this religion comes from a good person or a bad person, from an intelligent person or from a fool, from good or from evil, from compassion or from cruelty, from justice or injustice, from decency or from depravity -- however anyone wants to define those terms.

I just found this site today, and I'm thrilled to say that I've found here precisely what I've been telling people for many years -- Islam is, in fact, the problem for the entire world, but the biggest problem on earth for Muslims themselves. Unfortunately, in addition to destroying themselves with Islam, the rest of the world is likely to meet its end as soon as true Muslims assemble the weaponry required to destroy the earth.

It's absolutely imperative that the people who I call "pretend Muslims" -- who are the vast majority of people who call themselves Muslims -- disassociate themselves from this bizarre superstition called Islam and from the few true-believers, who rely on the pretend Muslims for their strength and legitimacy. President Bush and others are dead wrong when they say that Islam is a great and peaceful faith that has been hijacked by a few extremists. In fact, Islam is a vile and violent faith that establishes extremism and that has been hijacked by the pretend Muslims who, by their own human decency, have given this barbaric superstition the appearance of legitimacy to the uninformed.

Best wishes to all,

Apostate Success

Posted by: Mentat at March 1, 2005 10:37 AM

I think it was agreat article.
What really upsets me is that the "left" who should be the natural oppenents of islam, side with this cult just to spite the USA.

In my veiw the Iranians are far more superior and cultured than the arabs.

In my experience people who are not arab moslems have a deeper contempt for the arabs/islam probably because of their experiences.

When i try to explain to white Britons exactly why Indians who are Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist/Christians/Jews/Parsi etc have a problem with islam (esp pakistan)
they are always bemused because there "racist" theory goes down the loo.

I am sure Iran will overthrow the mullahs soon, all we have to do is e mail stories about human /womens/gay/reliogious rights to as many interested parties as possible and I beleive the mood will change.

Regards

AI

Posted by: apostate_islam at March 1, 2005 11:03 AM

Welcome Apostate_Islam!

What is your story? Without revealing your personal identity, can you tell us how you came to be an apostate?

I hope you are right about Iran. If the United States is forced to invade or attack their nuclear facilities, there will be much unnecessary bloodshed.

Posted by: Mentat at March 1, 2005 11:48 AM

Miss Moneypenney has all her f-a-c-u-l-t-i-e-s intact.

Posted by: Hugh at March 1, 2005 12:44 PM

Islam is the beginning and the end, it is birth and death, it has a timeless quality about it. Posted by: Naseem

When Mohammadanism is allowed to begin, it becomes the bitter end for everyone and everything else. The birth of Mohammadanism is the death of liberty, freedom and the ability to think logically. Mohammadanism is also not affected by time, it is stuck in the time warp that has lasted 1400 years and counting.

Excellent analytical thinking there Naseem.

Posted by: Bar at March 1, 2005 2:26 PM

Mentat:
United States has made mistakes in the past with Iran. "All the Shah's men" a book I think everyone that wants to understand middle east and Iran must read is about the coup d’ tat which toppled a genuinely democratic government. Iranians had worked very hard to reach a democracy but US and British agents destroyed that and put the Shah in power in 1954ish.
The Democracy was Ideal and much better than the Shah while the Shah was an angel compared the mullahs. Look at Gary's comments above on Jimmy Carter

And the second mistake, the Shah was not helped and the fanatic Islamics were given power, this was Jimmy Carter's mistake in 79. Now if you just want to attack nuclear facilities, I believe it is a mistake too.

United states should focus on supporting and installing a popular secular and democratic government in Iran. This is a much more rewarding in the long run.

If mullahs stay in power they will find some evil way to retaliate with or without nuclear weapons -if the goal is only to hit the nuclear facilities without toppling the Islamic government, this will strengthened the mullahs position and popularity.

What I am happy about is that because of the terrible mess that the mullahs have left Islam has become very unpopular among Iranians. Which means possibility for apostates in thousands and millions.

Posted by: bigdoor at March 1, 2005 2:39 PM

Above, a poster writes that "United States has made mistakes in the past with Iran. "All the Shah's men" a book I think everyone that wants to understand middle east and Iran must read is about the coup d’ tat which toppled a genuinely democratic government. Iranians had worked very hard to reach a democracy but US and British agents destroyed that and put the Shah in power in 1954ish."

The coup which overturned "weepy Mossadegh" (TIME's "Man of the Year" in 1953) is blamed, in Stephen Kinzer's book "All the Shah's Men," is not, pace Kinzer and the poster above, to blame for what happened 25 years later. The coup did not put the Shah on the throne; he was already on it, and simply left briefly while the C.I.A.'s Kermit Roosevelt organized the event.

There is a tendencty in the MIddle East to ascribe all woe to outsiders. Everything bad is the fault of "colonialists" and so on and so forth. Nonsense. Khomeini's rise was resisitible, but those who did not resist, but even joined him initially, were the left-wing followers of Mossadegh, including Abolhassan Bani-Sadr, Ghotbzadeh, and the rest of them. Shahpour Bakhtiar himself, later murdered in Paris by Khomeini's agents (just the way, fifty years before, Soviet agents had kidnapped and murdered Miller, the White general), was a transitional figure.

Khomeini was not a sport, but a profound and learned theologian. His hatred of Infidels was not something he made up; it came fro the texts.

If there is a Western villain here, it is France for allowing him to live, and conduct his anti-Shah propaganda in a protected villa at Neauphle-le-chateau. But the French government has so much to answer for in the Middle East, and now so much more to answer for -- this time to its its own population, which has been made justifiably anxious by the menace of its own burgeoning Muslim population.

Posted by: Hugh at March 1, 2005 3:38 PM

Bigdoor:

I agree with you that simply taking out the nuclear facilities will be counter-productive; however, politically, Bush may consider that to be the easiest option. I agree with you that it would be far better to topple the regime. The drums of war are beating. Nato has moved more troops into the Western part of Afghanistan. Iraq is more or less stabilized and politics is taking place. The Syrians are being called to account on many fronts. My guess is that, if the carrot doesn't work (which Bush is just offering to the Mullahs because the Europeans think it will work) then Bush will invade sometime in the next 6 months or so. As Bush keeps saying, "all options are open."

By the way, I am constantly meeting secular Iranians who are very decent, educated and cultured people. I think that there is tremendous hope for Iran because of such people.

I wish you all the best:

Mentat

Posted by: Mentat at March 1, 2005 4:22 PM

Bigdoor:

One more thing: when I read Ali Dashti's 23 Years, I was struck by how sensitive and intelligent that he was. If Iran can create people like him, then Iran has hope.

Posted by: Mentat at March 1, 2005 4:26 PM

Does anyone know if there is a connection between David Bellfield's recruiter who ".. still lives in DC area and runs an Islamic school.." and the would be Presidential assassin, Abu Ali's former school?

Posted by: Daisytoo at March 1, 2005 6:51 PM

What Mr. T means is that "We want nothing to be in common with Islam " and that is part of the problem here....you don't want to see the good in Islam that 1.2 billion people see. Posted by Naseem

Naseem, those ever-increasing billion + muslims see Islam as "good" because it's all they know, most were brainwashed from birth. Brainwashed zombies cannot discern good from evil.
Islam is the newest of the three major religions, so it is hardly "timeless". It is replete with contraditions, absurdities, fallacies and blatant asininity. How an educated individual who has been exposed to sanity could actually see any goodness and virtue in Islam is one of life's most bizarre mysteries.
Islam, that "timeless" abomination you so adore, is living on borrowed time. The civilized world will not tolerate it forever. Islam has nothing of value to contribute to humanity; it is a stagnated, archaic, intolerant and vile ideology that masquerades as a religion and turns normal human beings into monsters.
The dark, malevolent savagery of Islam has been exposed by the actions of muslims. Muslims are their own worst enemies. How much longer do you think the apologists and appeasers can convince people that murderous muslims are the exception, not the rule? All muslims are either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, including you.
You might believe that Islam is the "only true religion", but even with disgusting muslim proliferation, muslims are still outnumbered by people who don't and never will.

Posted by: Susanp at March 1, 2005 11:58 PM

"The Tears of Iran" and some of the posts here simply prove that historical hindsight isn't always 20-20.

Let's not invest the lives of promising young Americans to save what's left of the Iranian Tudeh, Mujaheddin-e-Khalq (the first to violate diplomatic space in 1978), Francophiles, and homosexuals. Let Iran stew in its own juices; and if a genuinely pluralist, minority-respecting democracy emerges, well and good. However, it's my impression that Iranians do not develop fond feelings for anyone perceived to be meddling in their affairs; they have a big country full of mountains and deserts; and give themselves over fairly easily to fanaticisms of various sorts. The Iranian Left (the only real altrnative to the mad mullahs) didn't appreciate our pressuring the Soviets out of Southern Azerbaijan and Kordestan in 1946; and they won't appreciate it if we go in and round up the mad mullahs, either. If they win, and want to deal with us, fine; if they can't get around the Ithna'ashariyya Shi'ism that's been Iran's bedrock since the Safavids, well, it's just too bad.

Nor was it a mistake to support Pakistan and the Afghan Mujaheddin against the Soviets. In case nobody noticed, the USA got far better results in its Afghan intervention than history gave us any right to expect. That was doubtlessly possible because there were some chips to cash in with non-Taliban Afghans.

I hold no candle for Islam; but the Soviet Union was a superpower devoted to a very wrong-headed vision of the world; no Islamic state is anywhere near forming the core of a bloc or movement; and even if the crazies win everwhere from Nigeria to Ningxia, they'll have too many national and sectarian problems of their own cope with, to say nothing of rotten economies due to their own blame-gaming and laziness.

Also, dear secular liberal friends and kin, was the Communist bloc all that much better than Islam? If you love minority rights, nobody was better at national majority chauvinism than the Great Russians, Han Chinese, and Kinh (the Viet majority group). Are you converned for the environment? Nobody's ecological disasters were greater than those of the Communist states (I myself have seen a part of the subtropical Far Eastern monsoon belt that was a virtual moonscape), and they didn't even deliver economic prosperity in the bargain. Worried about the status of women? Well, despite all those women doctors and elegant things in their constitutions, the liberated women of Communism still cleaned the houses and changed diapers--after their 12-hour workdays alongside the male comrades. Are you concerned about free expression? Well, Communist culture was notoriously stultifying, and produced nothing that compares with the even arabesque and calligraphy of Islam.

Communism also retains its hold on one major power (China), and is far from a spent force among the embittered intelligentsia of Western Europe and the People's Republic of Cambridge, Mass. Further, in its scant 70 years in power, it suceeded in killing and ruining more people over political wrongthink than suffered for the wrong kind of Christianity or none at all
between the conversion of Constantine and Ruggles v. New York (1811).

Much as I'd like my country to go on vacation and let the French and Swedes clean up the world's messes, I do take a certain perverse pride in the sort of people who choose to hate us.

Posted by: Kepha at March 2, 2005 1:42 AM

Mentat,

My story is nothing special really.
I was moslem for about 45 minutes.
The reason I dumped it ?
The hate, plain and simple.
I live in the UK, my parents are from India.
When I was at school in 1978/9 I remember the Iranian revolution and all the idiot paki/bengali kids saying to the Indian kids "islam will conquer the world" & "no east no west, islam is the best".

This is why I will be so happy when the regime falls.

Just think a large secualar democracy, anti moslem, populated by the most cultured, sophisticated, educated people in the mid east (along side Israel), anti islamic, this would be a mortal would into islam.

I will visit Iran one day, Persopolis, Tehran all those ancient sites.

Slightly off track

does any body remember this :
http://www.themuslimweekly.com/newspaper/viewfullstory.aspx?NewsID=NW00002041

Let Labour sell there souls to islam. I have just e mailed the link to the VHP of America and asked them to send it to every hindu/sikh organisation they can.

Posted by: apostate_islam at March 2, 2005 6:47 AM

Apostate_Islam

Thank you for your story.

Kepha:

Just because you are secular minded does not mean that you have an axe to grind against all religions; nor does it mean that you are against freedom of conscience; nor does it mean that you favor a centrally planned economy; nor does it mean you do not have strong values. Don't pidgeon hole the secular. We have as diverse a set of views as any people on the planet, maybe more so.

Posted by: Mentat at March 2, 2005 7:12 AM

Mentat: my apologies. My comments on the nastiness of Communism and why I still think that prior to 1989 it was a bigger threat than Islam is now were addressed to those who think we should've let Brezhnev have Afghanistan (and possibly Pakistan, too).

A further point is that most of my life was lived in one very destructive and bloody-minded century (the 20th)--and one reason it was so bloody-minded and vicious was that scientific socialism/Marxism-Leninism was its idea whose time had come. And I am convinced its time had come because of our sins. Much of the sickness infecting the Islamic world right now is probably due to a meeting of minds between Islam and 20th century totalitarianism, of both Communist and Fascistic kinds; with the former still providing models for various sorts of revolutionary fanatics.

Posted by: Kepha at March 3, 2005 7:34 AM

Apostate_Islam: Yes, thanks for your story. Yes, an Iran that kicks out the mad mullahs may end up as a hand grenade detonated against the side of Islam; my own guess is that a post-Khomeiniist Iran will probably be a little like Kemalist Turkey--nasty to its minorities and at base still very, very Muslim. I'm also impressed that exiled Iranian Marxists are as conspiracy-minded, anti-American (even when US law enforcement officers are protecting their sorry butts in places like LA and Chicago), and unwilling to consider the falseness of their creed as any other band of post-1991 Marxists. They're also the sort of people who think you have to be CIA if you know that former Soviet Azerbaijan was a slice of Persia seized by the Tsars (they've uncovered a major secret--why we're First World and they're Third).

Considering Timur-e-lang's invasion of Iran, had the hostage crisis shoe been on the other foot, their so-called civilization (let's not forget that Persian was the language of culture, such as it was, all the way to Khotan and the Aral Sea) would've answered by wiping out the entire populations of enemy cities.

As a former US diplomat and one who worked in immigration-related matters, I felt disgraced and betrayed when I saw the accursed Mujaheddin-e-Khalq soliciting signatures for petitions on the Washington Mall. Those people, who were the first inside the US Embassy in Tehran back in the hostage crisis, should never have been given asylum in the USA. The world would be better off if they were spending their exile in Paris, where the French authorities sometimes look the other way when Iranian government hit squads bump someone off (if oil or the sale of nuclear technology is at stake). As a matter of fact, one day I told a Khalqi signature solicitor to his face that his crew had a lot of bloody d---n chutzpah to solicit signatures on the Mall, considering what they thought of the country that had so stupidly given them refuge. Although the Khalqi was much younger and stronger than I, I am pleased to say that he turned white as a sheet.

By all means, keep the doors to refugees open; but let's make it clear that we Americans do have the right to slam, lock, and bar the door to people who hate us.

Posted by: Kepha at March 3, 2005 7:58 AM

Mentat & kepha,

It always turns my stomach when I see the left, liberals and other anti us/uk activists whining about the warmongering west.
Especially when these people should be the natural opponents of islam.

I have had an idea, when you finish reading it, i hope you don't think i am some kind of sicko.

The reason I have always despised islam was because of the hate, the treatment of women & minorities and the barbarism.

My idea is to concentrate the minds of those minorities that would and do suffer under islam.

the women, the gays, non moslems, socialists, atheists.

The idea is this.
The next time you or other anti mullah/islam organisation have a rally why dont you organise a mock stoning to death of a woman.
You could have stones just the right size, the dummy could be filled with a blood like substance.
You could invite passers by to throw a stone.
The media could be invited, you could hand out flyers, organise a video presentation.

I know it sounds gross, and it is. However if the public knew the reality of the iri & islam, then they might be more inclined to see US assistance to see its overthrow. As the saying goes....
"REALITY BITES".

Regards

AI

Posted by: apostate_islam at March 3, 2005 8:51 AM

Apostate_Islam: I appreciate your comments. There are a number of things that my Christian-informed conscience shudders at as "barbaric" in Islam, too.

The trouble is, in this PC climate, a mock stoning (maybe stone-shaped things of soft, foamy substance and an actress pretending to die under them), or a flyer referring to black people as "abid" or other such things would probably be taken as something in earnest. The Left, Islamofascists, and PC-crowd alike lack any and all sense of humor or proportion.

Posted by: Kepha at March 3, 2005 11:58 PM