Internet Toolbox for Islam-critics:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661

Posted by: Ali Dashti at March 27, 2005 8:17 AM

Al Qaeda/The Green Knight: "So what...you puny infidels have blown off all me legs and arms and killed thousands of those known as "The knights who say Allah Akbar". Come back. Tis but a flesh wound."

Posted by: obl r us at March 27, 2005 9:15 AM

Yawn. Deport them. Bulldoze any mosques unsuitable for hogsheds.

Jesus. The fact that we are still trying to reason with these people 4 years after 911 makes me upchuck.

Posted by: Havoc at March 27, 2005 10:03 AM

obl r us , this is just for you.

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/montypython/wound.wav

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 27, 2005 11:37 AM

Remember Tokyo Rose? The idea is to demoralize the troops on the battlefield or before they even get there. This is nothing more tham Muslim (Al qaeda) hype, ala Tokyo Rose-ism."looks good, lasts a long time, does nothing" In other words, so much empty rhetoric and bravado, cant even quite reach the "looking good" level. Nice try, no banannas...swami

Posted by: duh_swami at March 27, 2005 12:39 PM

Robert:

The OBL message seems to be designed as much for internal (intra Islamic) propaganda as it is for
external propaganda. Scarey part is as you and others (especially FregosiJihad in the West, Paul Sperry and Evan Kohlmann so amptly demonstrated time and time again, that Islam is a death cult, in which "martyrdom" is glorified and the Jihadis' seek out death fighting for their Allah.

The willingness to die to advance the cause is perhaps more effective and powerful than all of our technology and wealth.

In war there is a thing called force ratio, where a 3:1 advantage is necessary to ensure victory, but that is standard of symmetrical battlefield tactics.

What constitutes force ratio is not just numbers alone, but also armament and effectiveness of the troops. Numerical superiority can be offset by morale, training, commitment and fanaticism on the part of the less numerous force. And that is where the Islamists (al Qaida etc) have the advantage.

We have smart bombs and technology, but now so do they.. they have mastered the internet and electronic warfare. These are not beared tribesmen fighting in caves with AK 47's and RPG's either.

The fanaticism of the suicidal fighter was evidenced in the Pacific in WWII, the only reason that we could take Tarawa, Saipan, Guadalcanal, the Philipinnes and Iwo Jima, is that we basically overwhelmed them with brute force, while simultaneously depriving them of supplies (food, reinforcements, weapons and ammo). In fact on most of the campaigns towards the end the Japanese were viciously fighting to death, although weakened from hunger and short of ammo.

The only reason America was able to prevail was because they waged an "inhumane" war of total annhilation, or threatened annhilation (the Atomic Bomb), and the only reason that the America and Allies were able to peacefully occupy conquered Japan and Germany, because of the centralized and mortal nature of their ideologies.

The Japanese Emperor was mortal, but considered to be a living god, thus when he capitulated, the Japanese also capitualated (mentally).

Though few Japanese surrendered, those that did were easily turned, because in their mind the fact that they surrendered and were captured was equivalent to death, they were traitors, and already dead in their own eyes. It didn't take much interrogation to get information out of what were just a few hours previously fanatic and suicidal soldiers.

The Islamic soldier, and all true Islamics are soldiers of Allah, has no earthly living god, no leader that can or will capitulate, and sadly (for the sake of posterity) they will continue to fight, in one way or another, until there are no more soldiers being produced (every Muslim womb is a Jihadi - martyrs factory).

One can fight men, one can kill men, but one can't fight or kill an ideology, especially an ideology that is "spiritual" and temporal.

Looking at history, although Christians reconquered lands (such as al Andalusia) and those with an ultra cohesive tribal mythology, who chose to stay, feigned conversion but retained in secret their culture-ideology. In Spain after 1492 it was the Moriscos and Marranos.

On the other hand Christians were eventually converted and became Muslims (Egypt, Syria, Turkey, the Balkans - especially Bosnia Herzgovina).

Unlike the Arabs, after the Umayyads, who either massacred or forced into conversion the Christians of Africa and the mideast, the Turks and the Muslims of Spain (the sultan was the surviving Umayyad) had no real interest in converting the Christians of Greece, Serbia, Hungary or Bulgaria, because the Christians were a source of wealth and manpower (the Janissaries and slaves).

The dhimmi (rayyah in Turkish) were milked like cows, but the milking took it's toll, the blood levy or devirshme in which one out of every five young boys was taken by the Sultan for use as janisarry or slave), eventually so weakened the
communities that it threatened the health of the Turkish empire itself (a parasite that drains all of the blood from the victim will eventually die).
Converting infidels means losing taxpayers and slaves

The solution was found after 1492, when the Turks opened their doors to the expelled Jews of al Andalusia, the Ottomans opened the doors and welcomed the Jews, in fact in al Andalusa and the Ottoman Empire, the Jews actually fared much better than the Christians, serving as courtiers, viziers, physicians and civil servants such as Abd al Rahman III of Cordova, personal Jewish physician Hasdai ibn Ciprut, whose services were offered to (grossly overweight) Sancho the Fat a pretender to the Leon Throne. Jewish Viziers like
Hasdai Ibn Shaprut, Samuel ibn Nagrela, and Joseph HaNagid of Al Andulasa, and Jacob-Ebn- Yousef, Rashid al Din and Midhat Pasha in the Ottoman Empire and the Sultans' court had many Jews such as Solomon Abaenae and Don Joseph Nasi. Even under the Muslim Mongol Empire in Iraq the likes of Sa'd Al-Dawla, served not only as chief Vizier, but as chief financial officer.

The point I'm trying to make is that it appears from history that with the exception of a handful of ibn Warrag's and Ali Sina's, there is dearth of converts or deconverts from Islam to Christianity or secularism, and the same for Jews. Both Islamics and Jews maintain their identities as Muslims and Jews, even though they (like many Bosnians) aren't fundamentalist and have fallen away from the rituals like the daily Salat or fasting during Ramadan.

In Bosnia for instance, there are still many Muslims who are married to Christians, drink wine or beer,eat pork and celebrate both Eid and Christmas.

Christians on the other hand, are more easily converted to Islam. This is especially true in England and America, where strangely the vast majority of new Muslims come from Catholic households (and there is a reason for that - the extreme patriarchial AND misogynistic nature of Catholicism and Islam).

Perhaps the reason that Bush and Blair won't call the devil by it's name (Islam) is because in essence we are already dhimmi's.

The Muslims don't want to convert us, just force us into submission, and we are already there in more ways than we care to realize.

Through Islamic control of Oil (OPEC), they use our addiction to empty our purses and to buy the loyalty of our "leaders" both political, and economic and even religious, such as the Pope and the Presbyterians.

They don't need to force us into submission, they already have us submitted (e.g. House of Bush, House of Saud, Carlyle Group, Cheney's Haliburton, Exxon, Texaco Mobile, BP, Shell all are virtual slaves to the Muslims). In fact last I saw the Saudis owned 7% of our national debt and 15% of our economy, it keeps alive companies like Raytheon and Boeing by ordering weapons and airplanes which they can't and won't use or maintain, no wonder Bush opens up Crawford and the Whitehouse to Prince Bandar and Prince Abdullah.

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."
King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

If I can do this to Americans I can do it to you. What chance do you think you have? I have power. I have connections."
King Fahd's prior business partner publicly torturing Vietnam Veterans in front of other foreign workers.

AS regards Shari'a and it's civil/social effects, well considering how so many anti Jihadis share the same "values" (patriarchial-family) hatred of feminists,gays, lesbians and abortionists, and constantly whine about the decay of the family brought on by "Hollyweird" and the "liberal left", Islam, since it doesn't tolerate such "decadence" and "anti family values" behavior, seems to be the perfect answer for those whose emotional cultural shorts are in such a wedgie, esepcially since Islam needs dhimmis to pay taxes and serve as (wage) slaves.

As regards the status of Jews in dhimmitude, in reviewing history they have always fared better, much better, than Christians and both have fared better than secularists, true unbelievers, such as myself.

In fact it is confronting the real unbeliever (aka freethinker, atheist) that Muslim, religious Jew and Christian find common ground, and will in fact abandon their own differences so they can join forces and launch attacks.

Posted by: Giaour at March 27, 2005 2:58 PM

Does the term 'paper tiger' mean anything to these people? The only 'victory' these dolts know is when they decapitate some poor shmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact of the matter is, when the insurgents have to do battle with the likes of the U.S. Marines, they are handed a can of whoop ass EVERY SINGLE BLOODY TIME! The closest they came to capturing an American combat soldier they used some bogus plastic G.I. Joe children's toy as a hoax. "A great deal of sound and fury signifying nothing" is their lot. So they want a scrap do they? Then sic Gen. Mattis on 'em. It'll serve them bloody well right!!

Posted by: R Dubya Bee at March 27, 2005 3:03 PM

Prince Bandar and Clinton:

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2778.html

http://www.probe.org/docs/fahrenheit911.html

http://www.sauduction.com/11issue.html

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/fahrenheit911/saudities.htm

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/story/opinion20011118.html

You really should cease ignoring half the truth, giaour.

Posted by: Gary at March 27, 2005 4:14 PM

Jihadis-

As sick as most Americans are of wasting any more of our soldiers' blood or precious lives for such a generally-backward bunch of potential fellow-jihadis, as the average Islamic Muslim in Iraq seems to be, we will still come on and on and on, and finish even a dirty job.

Because, unlike Viet Nam (a folly because of equally-matched superpowers in a Mexican stand-off), the people in America (with the aid a few elsewhere in Europe and Asia) have a new view of reality since 9/11.

It truly did end the Viet Nam (and little Mogadishu) Complex forever.

And, as hard as it is for the multicultural suicidalists and anarchist/pacifists 'barking at the caravan' in the U.S. to understand -as they chant: "be nice to our little Muslim brothers"- the majority will pass them by in disdain.

And crush any enemy threatening the nation's existence. As you, the jihadists of Islam, clearly do.

So, call down your own doom if you wish.

Bravado is charming. And we'll be sure to carve it on your tombstone. Before dropping in the Marianas Trench. And oblivion.

Learn the lesson of Cathage.

Before salt is sown over the ruins of Mecca and Medina.

Reform your death cult's murderous dogmas.

Or join the similar nightmare visions of Divine Tyranny being dig up by curious archeologists' shovels. And re-buried in the basements of obscure museums.

Where stone age Islam belongs.

Posted by: BigSleep at March 27, 2005 9:28 PM

Thanks for the easter egg Carolyn2.

I would like to think that if George W. Bush ever got to talk to Bin Laden this is what he would scream down the mobile:

http://www.thesoundarchive.com/montypython/bleed.wav

By the way since it is easter and the west is in need I think it is time to unleash the killer easter bunny.

Posted by: obl r us at March 27, 2005 10:18 PM

Hmmmph. After 1500 battle deaths in two years, we can safely say that the jihadis haven't made Iraq a more dangerous place for young Americans than America's own interstate highway system.

Posted by: Kepha at March 28, 2005 3:27 AM

Hmmmph. After 1500 battle deaths in two years (3 days' worth of casualties from the good war against fascism), we can safely say that the jihadis haven't made Iraq a more dangerous place for young Americans than America's own interstate highway system.

Posted by: Kepha at March 28, 2005 3:29 AM

Please one question americans, how many american people killed in Vietnam, and which per year?, thanks

Posted by: Franze at March 28, 2005 4:45 AM

Franze:
58.000 killed over a period of 14 to 15 years, 2000 MIA (missing in action)

Posted by: Terminator at March 28, 2005 10:07 PM

Franze, Terminator: Hence, you're seeing roughly a yearly casualty rate in Iraq running at about half of what Viet Nam wracked up. Also, in that War, our losses on the highways (often of the young) were worse than what the VC and NVA could do; while our losses to crime in that era were far higher than they are today. Mao Zedong, looking at America bugging out of Viet Nam after roughly 60K in casualties said, "They can't have been really serious about that war." Indeed, the North Vietnamese government itself has admitted that it won on the American college campus; not on the battlefield.

Posted by: Kepha at March 28, 2005 10:50 PM