That what comes of slobbering all over the quoran

Posted by: shiva at April 3, 2005 7:57 AM

any poster that thinks am going over the top by refusing to show any respect to muslims should check this out
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Default.htm
I would foul my left hand in greeting to one

Posted by: shiva at April 3, 2005 8:00 AM

"What to say about a human being who possibly misled more other humans than any of his contemporaries? A taghut who promoted the worst sin, declared what is lawful as unlawful and what is unlawful as lawful, while people followed him?"

Yes, what does one say about Mohommed?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at April 3, 2005 9:40 AM

Apparently these people do not subscribe to the principle of "De mortuis nil nisi bonum" -- or they've let their subscription lapse.

Posted by: Hugh at April 3, 2005 10:11 AM

Editorial in Islam.com April 3, 2005 on the death of Pope John Paul II:

What to say about a human being who possibly misled more other humans than any of his contemporaries? A taghut who promoted the worst sin, declared what is lawful as unlawful and what is unlawful as lawful, while people followed him? Should one weep for him? Indeed

Literal Translation:

What do you say about a human being who misled more humans than any man today? He was a Satanist who brought out the worst in men. Only lies and deceit came from his lips as he led his congregation away from God. Should one weep for him? Indeed

I sent this in as a letter to the editor in the Modesto Bee this morning. We'll see if it gets published (Fat Chance!)

Posted by: BillR at April 3, 2005 10:20 AM

"Islaam.com damns the Pope to hell"

What they at Islaam.com are basically saying is that the tolerant christians (i.e. the good) go to hell and the intolerant muslims (i.e. the bad) go to heaven.

In that case therefore the heaven the people at Islaam.com beleive in must logically be essentially evil in nature as well as the deity inhabiting it. With this kind of theology/logic Satan becomes God. Then again the people at Islaam.com are so perverted they don't see that. Just the way the evil one likes it.

Posted by: obl r us at April 3, 2005 10:23 AM

These people are pathetic. John Paul II was one of those very rare people who could be admired by people of good will regardless of their faith. He stood against totalitarians of all stripes for his entire life and did more for humanity than all these Islamomorons ever will. It is telling that these jihadiots excoriate the man after he tried to reach out to the Islamic world.

Call me naive, but I'll wager that JP2 is much closer to God right now than Mohammed Atta is.

"The Pope even went to Harlem. I'm a black man, and *I* won't even go to Harlem!"
- Eddie Murphy

Posted by: Darius LaMonica at April 3, 2005 10:56 AM

They make me want to gag!!!

Posted by: epg at April 3, 2005 11:11 AM

islam can keep it's vile "whore-house" heaven. I am convinced that islam's god is the Christians' Satan.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 3, 2005 11:46 AM

Carolyn2:

The similarities are amazing - and the more you study it, the more obvious it becomes.

Posted by: CGW at April 3, 2005 12:10 PM

Imagine an Imam as loved by the rest of the world as John Paul II. You can't. It's impossible. These ranters against "unbelievers" and enablers of suicide bombers can never achieve such a reputation, ever.

Posted by: Suzan at April 3, 2005 1:32 PM

021.050
YUSUFALI: And this is a blessed Message which We have sent down: will ye then reject it?

Apparently Allah has some buddies with him?

Mohammadanism would have to deny Christ, for He is the essence of freedom.

Mohammadanism is solely a works based religion, and would be striped of all that it is or ever was. Moslems do not have freedom to worship, they must follow strict rituals 5 times a day, and of course we all know that Mohammadanism considers major things like murder and slavery completely acceptable, while placing insignificant things like thinking about Allah in the bathroom in the category of barbarousness. What a burden the Moslems must carry, while the Christian is completely free.

Could a Moslem ever dare to talk to his heavenly Father like you talk to your earthly father?

I finally found the miracle that Mohammad performed, he performed the miracle of misleading billions of people to follow an obviously blatant god and book.
How could Mohammad have possibly known that so many imbecilic people would blindly buy his collection of second hand knowledge from Judaism, Christianity and other pagan religions mixed together into a completely new revelation?

Posted by: Bar at April 3, 2005 2:22 PM

At the same time we struggle whole heartedly against folks such as Islaam.com, those of us who are Christian have the duty of not becoming like them in their hate.

For example:

"But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. ...

"If you love those you love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same."

(Luke 6:27-28,32-33)

And:

"Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse. ...

"Repay no one evil for evil. ...

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

(Romans 12:14-21, passim)

I am *not* saying we don't fight Islaam.com and others like them. I *am* saying that those of us who are followers of the Christ are bound by the Christ not to reply to hate with hate but rather to pray for these haters even as we try to thwart their plans and actions.

Pilgrim

Posted by: Pilgrim at April 3, 2005 3:38 PM

So the Muslims damn the pope to hell despite the fact that he kissed the Qur'an, kissed the bowl of "Palestinian" soil offered by Arafat, and despite his sympathy and love for the Muslms

See my post Here which is mostly quotes of JPII's speeches to the Muslims.

What ingrates they are, or maybe because Muslims attack the Pope we are thus suppose to be reactionaries and defend him.

Ever heard of Lenin's dictum of indirect reversal (reverse psychology) Opoose what your propose, oppose what your propose and your enemies will hand you the keys to the kingdom on a silver platter.

Maybe Islam.com took a page from Lenin's playbook.,

Posted by: Giaour at April 3, 2005 3:42 PM

Thanks for the link to Religion of Peace Shiva.

Posted by: Giaour at April 3, 2005 3:44 PM

"YUSUFALI: And this is a blessed Message which We have sent down:..."--from a posting above.

The royal "We" as in "We are not amused."

House style for "Talk of the Town" under Ross and Shawn: "We were talking the other day..." or "We read in the paper the other day..." or "We received a request this morning from the War Board, asking us how we would define democracy."

That last one is not made up, It is how E. B. White began, in "Talk of the Town," his own definition of democracy. The last sentence engraved itself on my memory the first time I read it: "Democracy is a request from the War Board, in the middle of a morning in the middle of a war, wanting to know what democracy is."

Posted by: Hugh at April 3, 2005 8:30 PM

Pilgrim-

"Forgive your enemies- but only after you have disarmed them." -every cop I ever knew.

Christ's message is poetically subtle and even seems terribly contradictory ("I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." / "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.") -at least to the literalists/fundamentalists, who do not understand the use of metaphor, simile, wordplay humor, 'devilish' wit, synecdoche or allusion. And who think that the 'words mean simple things'- even though Christ explained to his often dullard apostles that he was not saying things openly for all to understand, but would leave it for them to figure out as they were capable of.

The Biblical fundamentalists also naively forget that the Hebrew tongue has only consonants ['glottal stops' notwithstanding], so that nearly every written word in the language is always a kind of guess/translation. How you get to such damnable certainty about 'hard' (English) truths from such a vague root (Hebrew) source is one of those wonders of simplistic 'belief'.

Muslim apologists play on this flaw in 'Christian' logic and use their own words against them. ("Plus, you haven't read it in the original language!")

I prefer to argue from reason. Which stumps them completely.

What 'reason' is there in believing the words of a guy, dead for 1300 plus years, who admitted to erasing some of his own supposed 'perfect' directives of Allah- and then calling the censored bits "Satanic", who 'married' and raped a 9 year old, and who thought that the stars were created to be used as missiles to hit devils with.

Uhhh.... because he said we had to?

Sounds like the arguing ability of a 4 year old.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 3, 2005 9:26 PM

Having now read E. B. White's full text, with pre-natal memories of what it may or must have been like in 1943, when he wrote it, and suspecting you too may find yourself touched in a way that half-pleases and half-embarrasses you, I offer his full answer to the query:

"Surely the Board knows what democracy is. It is the line that forms on the right. It is the don’t in don’t shove. It is the hole in the stuffed shirt through which the sawdust trickles; it is the dent in the high hat. Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. It is the feeling of privacy in voting booths, the feeling of communion in libraries, the feeling of vitality everywhere. Democracy is a letter to the editor. Democracy is the score at the beginning of the ninth. It is an idea which hasn’t been disproved yet, a song the words of which have not gone bad. It’s the mustard on the hot dog and the cream in the rationed coffee. Democracy is a request from the War Board, in the middle of a morning in the middle of a war, wanting to know what democracy is."

How can this the spirit of this E. B. White piece from 1943 (in the middle of the greatest war in history) ever be properly conveyed to those would-be Muslim "reformers" and "democrats" now busy avoiding the issue of Islam, and concentrating on the outward and visible signs of democracy, not the real thing.

Before World War I, at the turn of the century, some horses in Elberfeld, Germany caused quite a stir. They were believed by the credulous public capable of performing arithmetic calculations, and in beating their hooves, they seemed able to calculate even cube roots. In reality, they were merely beating ther hooves to the barely perceptible nods of their unscrupulous trainers von Osten and, later, Krall.

Americans in Iraq are not unscrupulous. In fact, American foreign policy makers are far too naive and idealistic, and one often wishes they would be just a little less absurdly scrupulous. But as one sees those Iraqi politicians dithering in Baghdad, but beating their figurative hooves to show they can perform simple calculations about "democracy" one is put in mind, involuntarily and momentarily, of those Elberfeld horses.

Muslim "reformers" bandy about not only the word "democracy" but, all of a sudden, the word "pluralism" as well (as in "Islam believes in 'pluralism'"). Though of course Islam does not permit real "pluralism," Muslims know it has something to do with the recognition of group rights, and that is a conception that they find both useful for their own purposes (in protecting and promoting Islam in Infidel lands) and not terribly threatening at present (for there is no chance that non-Muslims in Muslim countries will ever enjoy full equality, legal and societal).

But what is almost beyond the comprehension of all but the most advanced in the Muslim world is the emphasis, in the West, on the rights of the individual, on the whole idea that the collecitve or "umma" is suspect.

If one thing must be asked of so-called Muslim reformers in and out of the MIddle East, it is this: not where do you stand on women (Shirin Ebadi fights for women's rights, and claims absurdly that their denial "has nothing to do with Islam"), not where do you stand on "democracy" (head-counting might be just fine with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt), but where do you stnad on the right of an individual, born into Islam, to leave Islam, for whatever he chooses -- another religion, or no religion -- without any consequences whatsoever.

Any Muslim presenting himself as the face of a New, Improved Islam, who does not answer that question in straightforward fashion -- and also in a way that does not show mental reservation (i.e. well it is ok in the West, but not for Muslims in Muslim countries) -- can simply be dismissed as a fraud.

Posted by: Hugh at April 3, 2005 9:40 PM

From the view of a radical protestant, the Catholic Church is an abomination that has allowed it's self to be infiltrated by homosexuals on a jihad of sexual debotchery of there own. Advancing there perverse agenda against humanity by raping childred all in the grand scheme of promoting homosexuallity.

When this diabolical sub-cultural conspiracy was discovered by controling church officals, they covered it up. Or at most gave a slap on the wrist. The late Pope John Paul II certinly is responsible for this crime against humanity. He only responded when it became apparent that law suits would be leveled and take hundreds of millions of dollars from the Catholic Church.

In the Boston debauchery, Pope John Paul II promotes Benard Law who helped to cover up that ring of child rapist which facilitated their sick homosexual compulsions. Bernard Law will be voting on who the next Pope will be......

In regards to this fourm, Pope John Paul II was a sell out to Muslims in general being the first Pope to visit a Mousqe, and also preached Christians in the Mid-East to " learn to live in co-existance with Muslims ". He was alarmingly quite about crimes against Christians in the Mid-East and the world in general.

Best he move on in my books.

--=Nossy

Posted by: Nostrodamus at April 3, 2005 10:07 PM

I'm a God-bless-King-Billy Calvinist myself, but as far as Karol Wotyla's ultimate place, the Spirit of God through the apostle Paul expressly says:

Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is to bring Christ down from above;) or Who shall descend into the deep[abyss]? (that is, to bring Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in they heart: that is, the word of faith which we preash; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom. 10:6-9) There's a quote from Deuteronomy 30:14 embedded in it, too.

So, I will leave questions of judgment to God, the one whose judgment it is.

Also, Nossy, it's not "debotchery" but "debauchery".

BigSleep--we Protestant fundamentalists are not naive about the structure of Hebrew. However, in God's providence, there is a lot of context in the Hebrew Bible that limits the possible vowel pointings to use with each word. Hence, the Masoretes who gave us the vowel-pointed Hebrew text in the early centuries A.D. were not making wild guesses or behaving arbitrarily. Even when Hebrew was heavily superseded as a living language by Aramaic among the Jews, there was a tradition of Hebrew scholarship going on. In 200 BC or thereabouts, Ptolemy commissioned some Seventy Jews to translate the Scriptures into Greek (there was a large Jewish presence in Alexandria, Egypt, back then), a language in which there are vowels as well as consonants. It is true that there are variants between the Masoretes, Samaritan Penteteuch, Seventy, Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Talmudic authorities (Spinoza and a number of Christian exegetes noted them back in the 17th century); yet not enough to obscure the fact that we're dealing with the same Old Testament (in case IA is lurking, there's an interesting article on variant versions of the Qur'an on the _Answering Islam_site).

The upshot of all this is that a generally reliable translation of the Bible into some vernacular language used by Jews or Christians is a very feasible project that has been done and continues to be done.

Posted by: Kepha at April 3, 2005 11:23 PM

Islamm.com's vile and irreverent epistle proves once again that the vast majority of muslims are demonic apostles of Satan. It also reaffirms the duplicity, hypocrisy, and deceit that muslims practice with no compunction whatsoever. They claim they want a "dialogue" with other faiths and demand respect for their filthy religion wherever they go. This atrocious article should be published in every newspaper in the country so everyone can see how compassionate and sincere they are. I don't know why this enrages me or why it should even surprise me. I expected stony silence from the muslim savages. I really didn't think they would go this far.

I am not a Catholic but Pope John Paul was a good man who made the world a better place. I cannot think of one Islamic cleric who has done anything to improve the world or the lives of muslims. The stark contrast between Pope John Paul
and the Ayatollah Khomeini is chilling. The pope was saintly. The demon Khomeini was a beast in every sense of the word, just like his god.

Pilgrim, it is very difficult to love or forgive those who hate as intensely as muslims. Even knowing that they are misguided and confused makes it no easier. Free will exists in all of us and even muslims are capable of exercising it. If they refuse to reject the evil that imprisons them, they do so by choice. I no longer pity muslims, but I try not to detest them. It gets more difficult every day.

Posted by: Susanp at April 4, 2005 12:14 AM

No! allah never had a son. allah is a completely
P-A-G-A-N god. islam is also totally and thoroughly P-A-G-A-N! that's pagan or satanic. islam is the religion of hate,horror, death, misery and wretchedness. ALL islamic nations, except Malaysia and Indonesia and "perhaps?" Jordan. In all other islamic countries the populace live in squalor, sordidness and are RULED by savage, inhuman dictators and/or cruel insane imans.The One Creator God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father of Jesus Christ. Regards, numbat

Posted by: numbat at April 4, 2005 1:20 AM

Islam holds all others in disdain and many Muslims openly demonstrate their contempt and abuse through word and deed. Others don't act or speak, holding their contempt in reserve, but you know what they are thinking for Islam mandates Muslims to "hate us for our unbelief".

Posted by: epg at April 4, 2005 8:14 AM

numbat
Stop insulting pagans
Guees you have not been to Indonesia,Malaysia and Jordian

Posted by: shiva at April 4, 2005 12:42 PM

Giaour
You domt have to thank me,the link has been on this site for quite a while.It just that we have all missed it.
By the way,Great post from your quarter

Posted by: shiva at April 4, 2005 12:51 PM

Giaour
You domt have to thank me,the link has been on this site for quite a while.It just that we have all missed it.
By the way,Great posts from your quarter

Posted by: shiva at April 4, 2005 12:53 PM

What we have here in this story of Muslim leaders condemning the pope to hell is more PROOF that Islam is an ancient human sacrifice cult dressed up as a Judeo-Christian (or 'Abrahamic') faith.

Christianity and Judaism both worship a deity whose most essential commands prohibit the killing of human beings for reasons OTHER than self-defense.

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL" of what are believed to be Yahweh's 10 Commandments undermines the Middle Easter tradition of using humans as sacrificial offerings to pagan deities as well as the entire cult-ure that grew up around this practice. And this we think is the REAL UNDERLYING CAUSE of the Arab-Jew conflict (which is observable throughout the Old Testament)and Islam's war against much of the remainder of humanity.

Consciously or not (we think consciously, and with the help of numerous uncredited Arab clerics of the time) Muhammed fashioned old-fashioned Middle Eastern human sacrifice practices into a killing machine that threatens the world.

Posted by: pythagoras at April 4, 2005 1:40 PM

How wrong you are the Pope John Paul II will be a Saint, by Dr. Jack Shepard

Dr. Jack Shepard The World Mourns you, Pope John Paul II

By Dr. Jack Shepard

visit: to join People for Peace Group
http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group

http://www.shepardusgov.com/10_deset/00_Deset_pocetak.htm

Pope John Paul II, was a shining example to all of us of what we each should and can accomplish. Pope John Paul II was a man of Peace who did what was pleasing to God. God can not ask more of us then what Pope John Paul II accomplished. He will be best remembered as a dedicated champion of Peace; by teaching us to once again to learn to love our neighbors. Today the world is a better place because Pope John Paul II lived. Thank you for allowing me to shared my message and prayers for Pope John Paul II from Rome with our members. I know that God has Blessed Pope John Paul II with Eternal Life in Heaven.

John Paul II was excellent at teaching his neighbors; to learn "God wants us to Love our neighbors

Pope John Paul II was also an excellent poet and an accomplished playwright and philosopher and a media expert that was one of the first of us to use the internet to spread God's word of Love throughout the World. by reaching out to his neighbors with Love.
.
This poem at age 19 years old Pope John Paul wrote for his mother.

“Over This, Your White Grave.”

Over this, your white grave
the flowers of life in white--
so many years without you--
how many have passed out of sight?
Over this your white grave
covered for years, there is a stir
in the air, something uplifting
and, like death, beyond comprehension.
Over this your white grave
oh, mother, can such loving cease?
for all his filial adoration
a prayer:
Give her eternal peace

By Pope John Paul II

Dr. Jack Shepard asks if any others have any memory of Pope John Paul when he may have visited their country post them with us at:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/People_for_Peace_Group

Posted by: Dr. Jack Shepard at April 6, 2005 5:03 AM