Worst...Analysis...Ever:

The arrest came a day after Ahmed Abdul Ghafour al-Samarrai, an important Sunni cleric in the association, urged Iraq's new president to buck U.S. pressure and free thousands of suspected rebels, a sign that the religious group most often associated with Iraq's insurgency might be willing to work with the new government....

Posted by: Beagle at April 16, 2005 6:41 PM

'what 'sect' their victims is'

Hmmm. Wouldn't that be sectsism?

Posted by: Gary at April 16, 2005 6:56 PM

But Muslims are all brothers! This must be the evil influence of those oppressors from America, Britain, Ukraine, Holland, Italy, etc. Stirring up sectarian strife where, before, there was only peace and harmony and complete understanding.

Although there was that little problem with the martyr related to Mohammad, whom the Shiites are still a bit peeved about.

But being a religion of peace, I'm sure this must all be a big misunderstanding.

Free those 'unjustly jailed' insurgents and then all will return to calm and brotherhood and sweetness and light.

One question:

are no guards or cameras or dogs watching the fences at these prisons to prevent prisoners from "cutting a hole and escaping"?

It all sounds pretty slipshod and half-assed.

But, better Sunnis keeping Shias hostage than either one holding any Westerners.

Maybe they can read the Koran back and forth and learn to love one another as Allah taught.

This could be a good opportunity for a learning experience for both sides.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 16, 2005 7:22 PM

He denied allegations of mistreatment, saying the inmates get three meals a day, access to shower facilities, prayer rugs and a copy of the Quran

I seem to recall Gen. Karpinksi saying the same thing a few months before Abu Ghraib was exposed. It's very clear that torture of prisoners seems to be a hallmark of American foreign interventions since 9/11.

Posted by: Shukri at April 16, 2005 9:48 PM

Were the Americans to leave, the Shi'a would quite possibly not restrain themselves any longer. And if they decided to deal directly with those who have over many decades profited from a regime that tormented and murdered many Shi'a, it is unlikely that they will wage war quite as Geneva-conventionally as the well-bred American soldiers do.

And so? How exactly would that harm American interests? And if the Saudis or the Syrians (to prove their orthodoxy, always in question for Alawis) or the Jordanians were to help Sunnis, and Iranians to help the already more numerous Shi'a, and if that, in turn, led to Shi'a restlessness in the eastern, oil-bearing regions of Saudi Arabia, or among Shi'a in Kuwait and Bahrain, would that damage American interests?

What would the spectacle of an all-out battle among Muslim groups, perhaps also affecting the situation in Pakistan, mean not for those groups, but for non-Muslims? Might it help as on object lesson for those Europeans still disinclined to notice what Islam is all about, and the manners and customs of its submissive-agressive practitioners?

And if the Americans withdraw, being careful to take along with them their 27,000 armored vehicles, and their men, and whatever taxpayers's money we were intending to squander on people who cannot love or like us, and must, to the extent that they are believers in Islam, regard us with hostility or hatred, and then we watch what happens -- oh, and if it all turns out alright, with a nice stable nation-state of Iraq, that's okay too, but it's not our affair, not our money, not our men, that ought to be trying to patch together that most unlikely collection of three Ottoman vilayets.

Posted by: Hugh at April 16, 2005 10:22 PM

Ramaz: I understand that Shi'ah and Sunni have different ways of washing before prayers. They also say that many Kurdish heads show the effects of certain cradling practices; while a lot of Kurds speak Arabic poorly (their own language is more like Persian).

Posted by: Kepha at April 16, 2005 10:37 PM

Eventually, the RugPilots will look back on Abu Graib as 'the good old days'. I am tired of coddling these primitive morons. Let the deportations begin; bulldoze the mosques.

Posted by: Havoc at April 16, 2005 11:19 PM

Ramaz, you're too funny!

Shurkri, the diabolical American torturers of innocent muslims are pussycats compared to the savage, primitive muslims who behead innocent civilians while screaming "God is great!", mutilate corpses, desecrate graves, rape and murder helpless women, blow up their neighbors, kill their mothers and sisters to restore family "honor", etc., etc. Nobody in the world can out perform muslims in the arts of savagery and iniquity. But we're learning!

Eventually we will treat you and yours exactly like you treat each other and us. Then Abu Ghrab will seem like a picnic. At least we have the decency to recognize injustice and punish those responsible; do muslims? Every heinous deed committed by a manical muslim is justified by either the Qur'an or one of muhammad's vile mutterings.

You're a typical muslim hypocrite.

Posted by: Susanp at April 17, 2005 12:53 AM

Shurki, I do believe that the prisoners also got their three meals and water, and even got a copy of some book or other called the "Quran". Maybe the underlying thing about all this 'torture' is that it only occurs in response to terrorist attacks. Maybe the Americans can only respond.

Then again, coming from islamic society, you must have a different interpretation of 'torture' than we do. Let's take your presumed 'worst-case' scenario,for example

For Shurki, torture =
not getting three meals a day
not having access to shower facilities, prayer rugs and a copy of the Quran
being made to walk around naked
being made to wear panties on the head

Now, I suppose one might say that those things do in fact occur in American prisons. End damage to the prisoner? Nil.

Now, under sharia law and in sharia prisons, torture =
being burned with things
fingernails pulled out
rape (females only, presumably)
having things cut off
electric wires being used to shock people

End damage to the prisoner = severe.

Shurki's sense of irony = nil.

Geoff

pwnage

Posted by: Geoff at April 17, 2005 1:13 AM

Almost forgot: Shurki, why do Sunnis like yourself hate Shias so much? Even a legitimate researcher from the "Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars" seems to be associated with anti-Shia terrorists - sorry, "insurgents".

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 17, 2005 1:15 AM

Update: Raid in progress.

I suspect there are going to be some dead Sunni kidnap-murderers.
I pray for the coalition soldiers and any innocent victims of this typical Muslim atrocity masquerading as a military strategy.

Now imagine the U.S. went and kidnapped some Wahhabi clerics and demand the Saudis quit preaching and exporting hatred and jihad or we start killing them in 24 hours (hey, not a bad idea - sorry). I wonder what the news coverage would be? Would we be called "anti-terror insurgents who can be dealt with?"

/rhetorical question

Posted by: Beagle at April 17, 2005 5:21 AM

Oh, and for crying out loud, can we please stop believing every Muslim terrorist who claims torture?!

It's in section eighteen of the al Qaeda manual available in at least ten online sources. They are INSTRUCTED to claim torture WHETHER IT HAPPENS OR NOT. They know our weakness. Sadly, it's our stupid, suicidal lawyers who don't understand their gravy train legal system is under direct attack.

Every day I consider burning my Juris Doctorate. Being associated with these idiots is really becoming tiresome.

Posted by: Beagle at April 17, 2005 5:30 AM

On the topic, when you're walking down the Arab street (pun intended) how do you know if someone is a Sunni, a Shitty, or a Kurdish? Just by looking at them? What criteria do these insurgents use to determine what 'sect' their victims is?

I hope you're joking because that's an awful dumb remark. As dumb as thinking all American Indian tribes looked alike and when they met in the woods or at war they got confused as to who was who. The different sects know who is who in Iraq. There are many ways to tell.

Posted by: dennisw at April 17, 2005 6:22 AM

Shukri you idiot!!! How come your Sunnis feel they have the right to mass murder Iraqi Shi'ites and treat them like garbage all over the Arab world?

Your Islam is a murderous disgrace. Is a haven for natural born killers to do their killing with the religious sanction of your Allah, your idol with feet of clay. Allah which is in no way the same God of the Christians and Jews.

Posted by: dennisw at April 17, 2005 6:28 AM

". . .It all sounds pretty slipshod and half-assed. . ."

Posted by: BigSleep at April 16, 2005 07:22 PM

Bigsleep, there's been a lot of that going around lately...

Posted by: cubed at April 17, 2005 2:05 PM

Men have been mistreating other men in captivity since the first man became a captive. The only question is, how severe is the abuse.
This reminds me of an incident where Geo Bush Sr was going to be entertained by the Saudi's, he was asked to use his influence with the royalty to get an American freed who was in Saudi prison. The American was an employee of an American company there.He had been incarcerated for eighteen months. The bottoms of his feet were beaten with sticks regularly as a punishment for his crime. His offense was possession of pornography. The pornography involved was a video tape of the TV show "The Love boat". Remember, the one with the "Lido" deck and all those bikini clad chicks, where everyone was in love with everyone else. Too much for the religious police to "bare" (pun on words)up to. So arrest was made and confinement was levied as well as "TORTURE". Bush declind to interviene...This guy was not an enemy combatant, nor was he a terrorist or captured enemy agent,
yet his torture for his "offense" at the hands of muslims, was more severe than most of the so called abuse at abu graib. As others have pointed out, Shukri should look at the bloody track record of the way muslims have traditionally treated captives, clean up his own back yard first and then complain about the messes of others...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 17, 2005 2:06 PM

Shukri -- Do not fear Allah, because he is only a god invented by Mohammed. The true God has brought you to this site to lead you on a walk with Christ.

Posted by: former liberal WF at April 17, 2005 2:15 PM

Hugh Posted:What would the spectacle of an all-out battle among Muslim groups, perhaps also affecting the situation in Pakistan, mean not for those groups, but for non-Muslims?

I have often though that an all out war between Sunnis and shias is likely after the coalition moved out of Iraq. It would be a continuation of the Iran-Iraq war of the eighties. This matter has yet to be settled.

Now this maybe satisfactory from several perspectives, as the jihadis will be concentrating their efforts on each other. The downside, and this is a big one, is that it will greatly increase the flood of muslim asylum seekers and immigrants to the West. As far as I'm concerned, the demographic threat posed to the West from muslim immigration is by far the greatest threat of all, far greater then any but a nuclear attack (and maybe not even that).

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 6:16 PM

From the mosque in Saudi ASrabia

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels, protect Islam, and disappoint
tyrants, unbelievers, and Islam's enemies." He goes on: "O God, help the mujahidin score victory and elevate the word of Islam. O God, give victory
to the mujahidin in Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir, and elsewhere. O God, support them. O God, destroy the usurper, tyrant Jews, who have spread corruption, killed people, destroyed property, and displaced people.O God, destroy them for they are within your power."

Apart from calling on allah to destroy non-muslims, they also call for non-muslim wealth (loot and booty), to fall into the hands of the believers.

What is wrong with these imams? Why is it that they continue to call for their allah to destroy Jews, Christians, Hindus and all others? If imams can preach such nonsense, what can be expected from ordinary muslims.

So while they call on allah to shake the ground under the feet of the infidels, they do not seem to notice the earthquakes and tsunamis wreaking havoc in a muslim land.

It goes without saying that I do not link earthquakes or tsunamis with divine intevention, but these imams do. And this is the tragedy - they do not see, given their belief system, the untenabilty of their position within that belief system.

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 6:39 PM

An another thing-
saying the inmates get three meals a day, access to shower facilities, prayer rugs and a copy of the Quran....

Why has it become mandatory for us to hand out qurans to muslim prisoners? Is this mandated in the Geneva convention? Are Bibles or Bhagvad Gitas handed out to Christian or Hindu prisoners?

Handing out qurans to our enemies at a time of war is equivalent to handing out Mein Kamps to German POWs in WWII; a manifestly absurd situation.

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 7:04 PM

Giaour~ you have some catching up to do Here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005768.php

Regards.

Posted by: Gary at April 17, 2005 8:09 PM

The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) which is Shi'a and Iranian supported, run by al Hakim and al Sistani has been trying to keep a lid on the sectarian civil war in Iraq, pretending it doesn't exist, but quite obviously it does.

I already knew that because I get my news of Iraq from Arab and Iranian TV via Mosaic
In fact I've known this for over a year, but the US government and it's freely controlled media has kept a lid on the info, because they want us to think that everything in Iraq is hunky dory, and that the invasion of Iraq actually worked and achieved something positive.

Take note that where you see "insurgent" replace that word with Sunni/Wahhabi or Sunni/Ba'athist which have become interchangeable.

99% of the attacks in Iraq are initated by these Sunni Wahhabis and 99% of the fatalities are incurred by Shi'a.

And when I hear the mention of 100,000 dead Iraqi's the veins in my neck muscles bulge, because at least 50,000 of them are victims of the Sunni Wahhabbi and 40,000 of them are lawful deaths of combatants in civilian clothes, and the rest were uniformed combatants.

As regards "torture" and treatment of partisans (the so called insurgents or combatants in civilian clothes) the Geneva convention and international law permits their summary execution, which is exactly what the Allies did in Germany.
And what the Germans did in Eastern Europe and Russia, BTW.

Posted by: Giaour at April 17, 2005 8:46 PM