"Agents also found two pictures of Mawlawi shouldering a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. In one of them, the end-cap is removed so that the weapon is ready to fire. Mawlawi said the pictures were taken when he was in Bosnia in 1996 and 1997 working as an English teacher."

After spending a morning struggling to impart the intricacies of English grammar and syntax, nothing quite lowers the stress level like marching around with a rocket-propelled grenade launcher with its end-cap removed.

Posted by: Hugh at April 16, 2005 6:13 PM

They've got catfish on the table
They've got gospel in the air
And Reverend Green be glad to see you
When you haven't got a prayer
But boy you've got a prayer in Memphis

Now Gabriel plays piano
Every Friday at the Hollywood
And they brought me down to see him
And they asked me if I would - Do a little number
And I sang with all my might
And he said - Tell me are you a Christian child?
And I said Man I am tonight
Cher-waliking in Memphis

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at April 16, 2005 6:46 PM

So, if the guy in jail hadn't told our sterling and ever-vigilant FBI, this terrorist with dual citizenship (how is that possible again?) would still be preaching, bringing in more invaders, and 'teaching English'. ("CLASS, repeat after me: A) remove missile launcher's cap; b) calibrate, arm and aim; C) bring down Memphis to Atlanta flight 767. Very good!").

And good to know he was in our military.

It's getting VERY close to the time where America should simply refuse to allow military service by Muslims, and make them all conscientious objectors by default -for reasons of conflicting allegiances.

Their oath at induction to the Constitution clearly clashes with their faith, so let them serve in A.I.D.S. wards, changing colostomy bags in hospices, and swabbing the floors of madhouses. Where we won't be giving them technical expertise that will only come back to 'bite' us, as it has in too many cases lately.

Since he once served, he can be brought back into the military on the "ready reserve" clause, and shot as a traitor by a Marine Corps firing squad.

I say, let's put it on pay-per-view, and donate the proceeds to the widows, widowers and children of soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Enough of this pussyfooting blindness.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 16, 2005 7:05 PM

Tell me about Kamal Nawash

Posted by: BillR at April 16, 2005 7:34 PM

From the full article in the Memphis Flyer: (linked to above)

"Mr. Mawlawi was a danger to the community," assistant U.S. attorney Fred Godwin told U.S. magistrate Tu Pham during the hearing last week ...He was planning to leave the country, and there is further indication that he was informed of an investigation against him," Godwin said.

A piquant detail, that: "there is fruterh indication that he was informed of an investigation against him."

Who could have tipped him off? What kind of sympathizer, in the ranks of the police, of the F.B.I., or possibly in the pages of Paul Sperry's book?

If you have not read "Under Cover" by John Roy Carlson, which is about Nazi sympathizers, and their natural pool of supporters, during World War II, you would not be disappointed if you do so. The relevance will be obvious.

Posted by: Hugh at April 16, 2005 7:55 PM

http://canadianislamiccongress.org/fb/friday_bulletin.php?fbdate=2005-04-15#1

I'm sure many of you followed the "Crusade" of Dr.Mohamed Elmasry who got caught expressing a anti-semitic opinion in public,seems his buddy at the C.I.C. is now a born-again Capitalist as long as the profits go to "Allah Cause" by way of Zakat.

The above link confirms what I claimed last year
when a Muslimfest event had workshops for children to learn about the Quran telling them to use Jihad to bring about a Khalifah in Canada,the article encourages Muslims to support the teaching of Islam to Canadians and all Politicians. Allah Cause is based on the Earth being his property and Mulims claiming it back from the infidels,the subtle references to Jihad
make for a dangerous future in NorthAmerica since it won't be long before the Mosques become Centre's of Hate-speech and run classes on "Shariah" which is also demanded by Muslims
in the article.

The event is this Aug. and I'll be watching for the "Workshop" menus for kids to post the proof
that Muslims are here to dominate and not assimilate.

Posted by: ala-sux at April 16, 2005 7:58 PM

So, what does this story have to do with the alleged Islamic world wide take over conspiracy, Mr. Spencer?

Posted by: Shukri at April 16, 2005 9:42 PM

Fraudulent marriage to a US citizen is the oldest ploy in the book; and it's done by people of all nationalities and cultures. Sometimes, the US citizen is defrauded; sometimes he or she's in cahoots for money. In 1988, they made a law saying that an immigrant spouse didn't get unconditional permanent residence until the marriage had lasted 2 years, but since when did INS have the bodies to knock on all the doors at suppertime? And, is it right to subject the bonafide crowd to treatment that smacks of criminal suspicion?

Face it. Marriage in the USA is simply a piece of paper. Since we'll soon have homosexual marriage, polygamy, polyandry, child marriage, and group marriage (by judicial fiat, probably), expect more people to take advantage of it.

Posted by: Kepha at April 16, 2005 10:14 PM

No muslims; No mosques. Deport them all.

Posted by: Havoc at April 16, 2005 11:15 PM

Bigsleep, this person has not even been convicted of the crimes that he is accused of and you are already advocating his execution for somehow being a traitor?! The logic is truly strange.

Posted by: Shukri at April 16, 2005 11:41 PM

OT, I would like to see Andrew and Pelayo post again.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 16, 2005 11:58 PM

Shurki, what the hell are you talking about? What world-wide conspiracy is this? Are you insane? What a strange world you live in.

By-the-by: insinuating that BigSleep wants capital punishment for this guy before the evidence is in is simply deceptional delusion and da'wa on your part. BigSleep feels he's guilty. I think he is too. But have no fear, we do send people to trial here - and a fair trial, unlike is done in islamic nations, or by islamic terrorists.

Robert, ban the troll.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 17, 2005 1:06 AM

Shukri-

At the end of the trial, naturally. And, if the evidence holds up. And he is convicted. These are givens. I am exaggerating to make a point.

But, if it IS as the details of the report appears, then the guy would be in favor of the war for global Islamic jihad, which is, de facto, an advocacy for the overthrow of all infidel governments.

That includes the U.S. And, by his swearing to uphold the Constitution while in uniform (for 12 years), this makes his acts, if proved, treasonous. And, in time of war, punishable by death.

I know you think that the fellow is probably MERELY a small time crook, maybe ONLY defrauding one of the countries he shares citizenship in, or JUST the suckers he is getting into the U.S. for illegal phony marriages, but the extra materials (lovely little videos, etc.) seem to express a darker angle to this incident.

Let's stop playacting that there is nothing going on in the world like a violent, despotic global empire impulse from radical Islam. It is the Koran's root impulse. Since 622 A.D. Otherwise Muslims would be happily herding camels in and around Mecca and Medina, and not sitting on former Berber pagan lands in Morocco or former Hindu lands in Pakistan or Malaysia, or former Buddhist lands in Afghanistan. The expansionist, 'conquering with the sword' tendency of the Islamicists can only be ignored if you are colossally insular or feel yourself to be a part of its planetary sweep to dominion.

As a freethinking agnostic, I would be on the top of the Koranic theocratic hit list. And, because of its history and declaration of murderous intent toward infidels and pagans, I WILL suspect the worst since I see plenty of it emanating from the current extremists of the Muslim faith.

And the Koran gives them an excuse and imprimatur as dogmatically satisfying ("stike at their necks" = behead contractors) as Nazi or Communist or fascist propaganda ever did. They are the Ubermensch, the Over-men, with the Holy True Answer, and all must submit to it, or be crushed by it, or killed.

I take their threats seriously. Serious as hell, as a matter of fact.

And, rather than pretend that guys breaking multiple laws, betraying their country (or, at least one of their countries), infiltrating it with other criminals, and evidently taking a sadistic pleasure in vicious videos of carnage and cruelty, I can perhaps be forgiven for not being a dumb p.c. cluck and naively wishing for the best from characters like Rafat Jamal Mawlawi.

If it smells like a rotting fish, looks like a rotting fish and bloats like a rotting fish,
I'll trust my instincts (and experience) and try to get it out of my kitchen. And house. And country.

And, if the trial convicts this guy, I hope he isn't get put on the public dole (prison) for a few years and let out again, refreshed, renewed and ready to defraud, thieve, betray and possibly kill again (while "teaching English").

No thanks.

I'll defend freedom of thought against any creed that would end all further thinking.

And any which insist that everyone on Earth bow to an answer born from a fallible human mind.

No thanks.

I know the human mind. And its many alluring delusions. I'll bow to the existing mysterious stars and infinite space before I grovel before any 'perfect' truth from an imperfect creature.

The very idea is laughable.

Play along with it if you wish.

Spin little webs of mock indignation and faux concern for the rule of secular law (and not Sharia).

I can see what Islamic fanaticism brings.

Headlock and deadlock.

No thanks.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 17, 2005 1:12 AM

Geoff-

While I was thinking if I would even botherto explain, you got their 'fristest with the mostest'. Thanks. I didn't see you comment till after aI hit the reply key or I may have let it pass. But, I figure, people reading from curiosity might think I was merely an Islamophobe with no concern for the judicial nicities, when it is Sharia Law itself that worries me, and those promoting its multifarious barbarisms, contempt for women, unbluntable cruelties, and 7th century mindset.

If we were running the West (and U.S.) under strict Old Testament Law (stoning women for adultery, ad nauseam... which it took Jesus to finally repeal), I'd be just as scared of the legal and moral consequences.

If Mr. Terrorist in Memphis is found guilty, then feed him to a gator, if that is more in agreement with Muslim sensibilities than a Marine Corps firing squad. Just send him to Allah and let the rest of us on Earth get back to the work of civilization.

Its tiresome having to look over your shoulder for their random maniacal nutjobs, more and more.

When they weren't here in any noticable numbers, say 20 years ago, it sure was a happier place.

What does that say about their mindset or behavior?

I'll take Moonies, Hari Krishnas, Bahais, Navajo shamans, or even UFO cultists any day.

I'm going to go walk my dogs by the half moon and have a glass of gamay beaujolais to wash this taste out of my psyche.

Islam is lame.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 17, 2005 1:48 AM

What world-wide conspiracy is this?

The world wide conspiracy of secret Mujahideen who, according to Mr. Spencer, are seeking to "destroy the West" and dominate the world.

insinuating that BigSleep wants capital punishment for this guy before the evidence is in is simply deceptional delusion

There is no insinuation. He stated it loud and clear.

"[Mawlawi] can be brought back into the military on the "ready reserve" clause, and shot as a traitor by a Marine Corps firing squad."

Bigsleep makes no mention of the legal process nor of obtaining a conviction in his post.

At the end of the trial, naturally.

Ok. Sorry for my assumption, Bigsleep.

if the evidence holds up. And he is convicted. These are givens.

No, my friend, these are not givens. It's "innocent until proven guilty" and not the other way around.

But, if it IS as the details of the report appears, then the guy would be in favor of the war for global Islamic jihad

Nonsense, sir. If it is as the details of the report appears, then he would be merely sentenced for immigration fraud and conspiracy. This is not really a terrorism case despite the efforts of the journalist who wrote the article to sensationalize it as such.

And, in time of war, punishable by death.

The US has not declared war...

but the extra materials (lovely little videos, etc.) seem to express a darker angle to this incident.

Nonsense. I too have videos lying around which are in Arabic with such names as "Martyrs of Bosnia" & "Jaheem al Roos" and show the lives of Mujahideen who were killed in Bosnia and attacks in Chechnya. But if you think that I'm out to "destroy the West", then you are seriously misinformed.

when it is Sharia Law itself that worries me, and those promoting its multifarious barbarisms, contempt for women, unbluntable cruelties, and 7th century mindset.

Bigsleep, please provide me with examples of the above for I know that none of it is true.

stoning women for adultery, ad nauseam... which it took Jesus to finally repeal

Jesus, peace be upon him, did not repeal the law. He came to affirm it, as even the Bible confirms:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew - 5:17-18

Posted by: Shukri at April 17, 2005 2:41 AM

No worries Big - I was a bit surprised by Shurki's postings and so I thought I should postest mostest.

Shurki, do you have any evidence for this 'world-wide conspiracy' of yours? I've never heard about it until now. Is there some kind of conspiracy by islamofascists or something?

I don't know how legal matters work in the country you're from, but in the West we have to have a trial first. Has someone not mentioned this to you? I don't know if they do this in sharia, or in the regular legal process of most islamic nations. This is such an integral part of the process that we really don't bother mentioning it. The assumption is of course that he's guilty, but prima facie (that means "at first glance", Shurki) that he's guilty by the amount of evidence. An armchair rationale, but probably a correct one, and one I agree with eminently. 'Given' that much evidence against him, it's a 'given' he's guilty - unless regular muslims also stash firearms, ammunition, video clips with islamic violence and fake passports? Is this in the Quran somewhere?

"This is not really a terrorism case despite the efforts of the journalist who wrote the article to sensationalize it as such."

Of course, sir. Inasmuch as regular muslims secrete weapons, cash, passports and ammunition. He must have been on the way to a prayer meeting somewhere. I noticed you also mention having jihadic videos in your possession - but have you seen fit to purchase a weapon and some passports yet? These may be important to your faith, somehow.

Ah, but the US HAS declared war - on terror. I understand Congressional law is essentially that Presidents may make a Finding, formal or informal, that specifies a State of War. So, in fact, the US is at war. Thankyou for clearing that up.

As for the 7th century mentality of sharia law, I thought that would be manifest in divorce law and inheritance law (the latter being proscribed specifically in islam), to say nothing of stoning. Bring your proofs, if ye be truthful.

And, finally - a common misunderstanding among muslims - Jesus is not recognized by anyone I've ever heard to recognize the OT law excepting the Ten Commandments by the phrase in Matthew. This would essentially contrast with his peaceful nature, which in turn contrasts with that of Mohammed (which, frankly, has been "beaten to death" here, so to speak)

It's time for you to abandon your ways and embrace the one True God, Shurki. Become a Christian or a Jew. I think it may be your only way to salvation.

Geoff

pwnage

OT but this was on the site a few posts back:

*************************************************
My name is Richard Benkin. I am Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury's friend and colleague, and I have been leading the fight to free him. People who want to help should go to our web site, www.freechoudhury.com. There you can learn more about the case, sign a petition that needs as many signatures as possible, and your visit alone will give us more "hits," which helps, too. You can also contact me through the site for speeches or writing, or for more information.

We are entering into a period that has taken this matter to higher levels. So, as you will read at the site, it would help if you urge your own Senators or Members of Congress to get involved. Notify your local media. Refer them to the site. Refer them to me.

This is a terrible tragedy for one family, but it is part of a dangerous trend in the non-Arab Muslim world, and together, and with brave men like my friend, we can overcome it. We must not let the good people of Bangladesh be overwhelmed by the radicals.

Thanks.
*************************************************

Go sign! (Even you, Shurki.)

Geoff

pwnage

Posted by: Geoff at April 17, 2005 3:05 AM

So, what does this story have to do with the alleged Islamic world wide take over conspiracy, Mr. Spencer?

Posted by: Shukri at April 16, 2005 09:42 PM

ALLEGED?????
negative! there is no "alleged" .AND it is not a "conspiracy",It is only what it is.
Your words give you away .

seek not to cast confusion upon the clarity of the goal here, which is to investigate JIHAD . the causes..... .effects......and eventually a CURE......
You, (by your own words) Do not understand ISLAM .

OR WORSE you are seeking to distract from the FACTS.

Please research your FACTS before posting .Or your obtuse misleading statements will continue to be picked apart .

In Arabic, the word jihad means striving and expending one’s energy.

In Islamic terminology, jihad means the Muslim striving to make the word of Allaah supreme and to establish His religion on earth.

The purpose of jihad in Islam is not just to kill non-Muslims,but also the purpose is to establish the religion of Allaah on earth, to establish the rule of His sharee’ah, and to bring people forth from the worship of other people to the worship of the Lord of all people, from the injustice of other religions to the justice of Islam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone”

Pretty clear.................................................ALL the WORLD to come under Shariah law is the GOAL!It isnot a "conspriacy,it is the OBLIGATION of ALL Muslims ........................................................allah commands this,....Period.

Posted by: AvrageJoe at April 17, 2005 3:49 AM

So, what does this story have to do with the alleged Islamic world wide take over conspiracy, Mr. Spencer?

Posted by: Shukri at April 16, 2005 09:42 PM

ALLEGED?????
negative! there is no "alleged" .AND it is not a "conspiracy",It is only what it is.
Your words give you away .

seek not to cast confusion upon the clarity of the goal here, which is to investigate JIHAD . the causes..... .effects......and eventually a CURE......
You, (by your own words) Do not understand ISLAM .

OR WORSE you are seeking to distract from the FACTS.

Please research your FACTS before posting .Or your obtuse misleading statements will continue to be picked apart .

In Arabic, the word jihad means striving and expending one’s energy.

In Islamic terminology, jihad means the Muslim striving to make the word of Allaah supreme and to establish His religion on earth.

The purpose of jihad in Islam is not just to kill non-Muslims,but also the purpose is to establish the religion of Allaah on earth, to establish the rule of His sharee’ah, and to bring people forth from the worship of other people to the worship of the Lord of all people, from the injustice of other religions to the justice of Islam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone”

Pretty clear.................................................ALL the WORLD to come under Shariah law is the GOAL!It isnot a "conspriacy,it is the OBLIGATION of ALL Muslims ........................................................allah commands this,....Period.

Posted by: AvrageJoe at April 17, 2005 3:49 AM

so the purpose of Jihad is for muslims to take over the world for Allah , thanks for clearing that up AverageJoe Muslim.

Posted by: Pegcity at April 17, 2005 11:45 AM

No muslims; No mosques. Deport them all.

Well, let's at least get the buggers out the military. They can not be trusted. They are oath breakers, liers, and craven murderers at heart.

f.g.

Burn a copy of the Koran today!

Posted by: f.g. at April 17, 2005 12:39 PM

Pegcity i am NOT a Muslim .I am anti-islam,anti jihad, whiteboy born in the USA.

Posted by: AvrageJoe at April 17, 2005 12:53 PM

Shurki-

Not that you'll care:

By "givens" I meant those formalities of the legal process which are inherent in the system, and are therefore "givens". I.E.- assumed as the rights of the person arrested. (I was "cutting to the chase", for ironic impact...assuming someone reading the outrage would realize it was mean as a little 'wishful thinking' I'd like to see fulfilled "after the trial".)

On Christ's use of metaphor and ingenuity:

I guess you missed the point of the New Testament were Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman (and by this example of stopped ALL further stonings of ALL women) by saying:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And by "fulfilling" the laws of the Old Testament, it is clear Jesus was being ironic at times- and tactically coy (trying to save his own skin for a little while longer)- since he came to overthrow much of the barbaric ritual cruelty of the Old God.

And dissolve many absurd customs -like the dietary laws utterly- when he said: "It is not what a man puts into his mouth, but what comes out of it that makes him 'unclean'"... a radical revision of the Old Testament "Law". ('Not what you eat, but what you speak defiles you', in plain talk.)

Although much is 'literarist-ically' contradictory in his surviving sayings (others like the Gnostic Gospels found in Egypt at Nag Hammadi in the 1940's give further insights), such as where he says "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" and, apparently inverts this, claiming that he was "not bringing peace but bringing a sword".

But this is metaphorical, and he meant he would be 'sowing dissension' (- and not carrying a literal 'sword'-) between the cruel old forms his more compassionate new ones -and would 'set son against father' (old against the re-envisioned) by trying to humanize the laws of the vengeful deity of the Pentatuch.

By not taking these things literally, I distill the most decent and dismiss the hoary cruelties. What sane or humane people would still want to literally cut a person's hand off for stealing? Or stone women to death for adultery?

That's Dark Ages stuff. Like bear baiting and burning witches.

Sharia and the Koran cling to too much of the cruel in their dictums and are particularly oppressive toward women ("worth half a man"), and, if they can't reform themselves, they will need to be restrained until they get enough human decency in them to revise the bloodlust out of the "holy" texts and "sacred" rules.

Christians and Jews have managed to do it with the equally preposterous or vicious parts of their creeds (not a lot of Hassidim stoning their wives to death in the Bronx lately, and not many fundamentalist christians wrapping up scientists up in bundles of sticks and burning them alive in Memphis, as far as I can see).

Worry more about those in your own Islamic community who take ther worst of the Koran and Hadiths and distill it down to a violent call to kill the infidels everywhere. And to sweep the globe until there is a Restored Caliphate.

Even if there were only a jihadi hardcore 1,000 of them in the U.K. or U.S., they could then do 50 times more damage than 19 guys did on 9/11 (or: 150,000 dead).

Preventing this is paramount. And stopping such carnage will be in the best interest of Muslims also.

150,000 dead in the West would make the reaction to the "enemies in their midst" less p.c. and pleasant than it has been so far.

It is in the interests of all decent people to want to stop mass-murderers from succeeding.
And to squelch their "little enablers" before they become dangerously malignant themselves.

Believe me, if I had "christian" or "zionist" neighbors being what the jihadis are up to, I'd be trying to stop them as vigorously.

All I hope is that reasonable Muslims do the same against their homegrown nutjobs.

(But, if you have 'martyr videos' in your collection, maybe I am 'playing tennis to an empty court'.)

I'll fight for freedom of thought.

And against Koranic stopthink.

And Sharia sleepwalking.

Honest.

Posted by: BigSleep at April 17, 2005 1:13 PM

Shukri:

Innocent until proven guilty you say?

Now if only your Brothers would heed your advice
and waited for the outcome of the Abu-Ghraib prison case,on the evidence of a few digital photos that are easy to doctor-up to incite
the enemy,Muslims went nuts and already tried
the soldiers in the photos.

There were only 7 pictures and roughly three soldiers alleged to have done this acts,even with several persons hooded it seems that the psychic's
within Islam knew that all the victims were Muslims.
How insulting to decent Iraqis to hear Muslims imply that all the criminals being held are Iraqi Muslims,are there no other people in Iraq comitting crimes.

You can play this little charade all you want,and failing to argue a point with facts
only mitigates the credibility you're trying to assert as a informed Muslim,even after 15 of the 911 hijackers were traced to Saudi Arabia as devoute Muslims it was Mr.Hooper at CAIR that
still rejected the men as "True" Muslims.
Maybe the 1.2 Billion Muslims outside of America
have it right and YOU'RE the one that's got it all WRONG.

I'd sure like to be there when you meet Allah just to see the look on your face if all you believed in was false and Muhammed pulled the scam of the century on fools and peons.

Posted by: ala-sux at April 17, 2005 2:04 PM

Shurki,

The Mosaic law ended with the coming of Christ. Jesus said "I am the end of the law". He said he was replacing the Mosaic law with these two commandments:

1. You must love Jehovah your God with your whole mind, heart, soul and strength. This is the first and greatest commandment.

2. You must love your neighbor as yourself.

People who truly followed these commandments would be incapable of suicide bombings, kidnapping and beheading, "honor" killings, mass murder, highjacking and other violent and criminal acts done every day in the name of Islam. Christ's teachings are the reason true Christianity is superior to Islam.

Posted by: Roxane at April 17, 2005 2:04 PM

Shukri -- Christ has led you to this site in order to open your eyes and release you from spiritual bondage: "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matt.7:15.

Posted by: former liberal WF at April 17, 2005 2:08 PM

Stories such as this make me wonder what possessed President Bush felt it necessary to mention the "words in the Qur'an" in his inagural speech.

With the continued arrests of these wonderful people, it should be apparent, even to the geniuses in our government that Islam is not a part, nor has it ever been a part of the fabric that makes the United States the great nation that it is.

The Qur'an is a glorified combat strategy handbook, and should be placed in a glass case with a sign that says, "Break glass only in the event of war".

Posted by: DCWatson at April 17, 2005 2:22 PM

Corrected:

Stories such as this make me wonder what possessed President Bush to mention the "words in the Qur'an" in his inagural speech.

With the continued arrests of these wonderful people, it should be apparent, even to the geniuses in our government that Islam is not a part, nor has it ever been a part of the fabric that makes the United States the great nation that it is.

The Qur'an is a glorified combat strategy handbook, and should be placed in a glass case with a sign that says, "Break glass only in the event of war".

Posted by: DCWatson at April 17, 2005 2:24 PM

Shurki, do you have any evidence for this 'world-wide conspiracy' of yours? I've never heard about it until now. Is there some kind of conspiracy by islamofascists or something?

I know, I've never heard about it either until I came to this site. In "Why Jihad Watch" on the main site, its says:

"Because the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists...to destroy the West"

but in the West we have to have a trial first. Has someone not mentioned this to you?

I dunno, Geoff. With the imprisonment of Jose Padilla, an American citizen, without charges or trial, I thought that a trial is no longer required.

I don't know if they do this in sharia, or in the regular legal process of most islamic nations.

In a correct Shari'ah abiding society, there must be a trial so that people can be proved innocent or guilty and also have a chance to defend themselves. Regarding current nations with Muslim majorities, most of them are tyrannical nations (usually heavily supported by the West ex: Saudi Arabia & Egypt) who have only show trials if they have them at all when it comes to accused "Islamists".

an armchair rationale, but probably a correct one, and one I agree with eminently. 'Given' that much evidence against him, it's a 'given' he's guilty - unless regular muslims also stash firearms, ammunition, video clips with islamic violence and fake passports?

He is only charged with Immigration law violations & Conspiracy. No illegal weapons charges, meaning that he was probably licensed to have those weapons.

I noticed you also mention having jihadic videos in your possession - but have you seen fit to purchase a weapon and some passports yet?

Unfortunately, I live in California. No weapons for me, *sniff*. That doesn't mean, however, that an armed robber wouldn't seriously regret it if he tried entering my house.

Ah, but the US HAS declared war - on terror.

Sorry, it is absurd to declare war on a noun.

I thought that would be manifest in divorce law and inheritance law (the latter being proscribed specifically in islam), to say nothing of stoning. Bring your proofs, if ye be truthful.

How is Divorce law uncivilized?
How is Inheritance Law uncivilized
On stoning

Jesus is not recognized by anyone I've ever heard to recognize the OT law excepting the Ten Commandments by the phrase in Matthew.

Then whoever you've heard is probably not acquainted very well with the particular message of Jesus as given in the current Bible.

According to the Bible, Jesus, peace be upon him was "not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 15:24)(not to humanity! Why then the Christian proselytization of those who are not in the house of Israel? They are going against the message of Jesus, peace be upon him) and was not sent to abolish their law but to affirm it(Matthew 5:17-18).

It does not state that this is only the Ten Commandments. Jesus, peace be upon him said according to the Bible: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". It is the complete law of the house of Israel and not just the Ten Commandments or other general elements of the law.

---

ALLEGED????? negative! there is no "alleged" .AND it is not a "conspiracy",It is only what it is. Your words give you away .

Sorry Average Joe, it is only an accusation. Not even the most "terrorist" of the Muslims has ever made a claim to "destroying the West". To my knowledge, they have all said that they are reacting against Western invasion and occupation of Muslim lands and Western support for tyrannical Middle East regimes that oppress and kill Muslims.

It isnot a "conspriacy,it is the OBLIGATION of ALL Muslims

Hmm. When I was studying the Basics of Islam at the feet of an Islamic scholar, I wasn't taught that. Perhaps you know more than this scholar, who has been studying and teaching Islam for most of his 96 years and has memorised (yes, memorised) the Quran, the 7 books of hadith and their commentaries, several Tafaseer of the Quran (including the massive tafseer of Imam Al Qurtubi) and innumerable other texts on Islamic Law and spirituality.

I guess you missed the point of the New Testament were Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman

He did not try to "stop the stoning". He was making a point to those in authority.

This is proven by Jesus, peace be upon him, subsequently asking the woman, "Where are your accusers? hath no man condemned thee? " and she replied "No man, my Lord". Then Jesus, peace be upon him, replied "Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more"

She was not set free because the law was abolished. She was set free because a condition of the law (witness/ accuser required) was not fulfilled.

And dissolve many absurd customs -like the dietary laws utterly- when he said: "It is not what a man puts into his mouth, but what comes out of it that makes him 'unclean'"

The Quran also has similar worded statements:

"It is not the eyes that are blind but the hearts in the breasts of men"

This does not negate the fact that people lose their eyesight. But it is just emphasizing that people lose their inner vision. Similarly, Jesus peace be upon him, is not negating the dietary laws but he is emphasizing that people should not utter foul speech.

oppressive toward women ("worth half a man")

Sorry, the Quran never states anywhere that a woman is "worth half a man". It instead refers to women as the partners of men.

Believe me, if I had "christian" or "zionist" neighbors being what the jihadis are up to, I'd be trying to stop them as vigorously.

Watch this

Posted by: Shukri at April 17, 2005 2:26 PM

Now if only your Brothers would heed your advice and waited for the outcome of the Abu-Ghraib prison case,on the evidence of a few digital photos that are easy to doctor-up to incite the enemy

Please read the Taguba Report, ala-sux. This was not just based on a few photos.

,even after 15 of the 911 hijackers were traced to Saudi Arabia as devoute Muslims it was Mr.Hooper at CAIR that still rejected the men as "True" Muslims.

Everyone who has studied Islamic Law with qualified scholars knows that what the hijackers and those who supported them did was illegal and unIslamic.

Maybe the 1.2 Billion Muslims outside of America have it right and YOU'RE the one that's got it all WRONG.

While I was born in the US, most of my time has been spent outside the US in West Africa, Asia and the Middle East. I have found the opinions of Muslims on major issues, in all of these various countries and regions, to be pretty uniform.

I'd sure like to be there when you meet Allah just to see the look on your face if all you believed in was false and Muhammed pulled the scam of the century on fools and peons.

If God and the Muhammad, peace be upon him are false, then you and I will have lost nothing. But if God and his Prophet are true, I will have gained everything and you will have lost everything.

It behooves all of us as sane and intelligent human beings to sincerely seek the truth. I hope all of us have this intention. I know I have.

The Mosaic law ended with the coming of Christ. Jesus said "I am the end of the law".

Roxane, we are told by Paul(Romans 10:4) that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the end of the law. But we are told by Jesus himself, peace be upon him that "Think not that I am come to destroy the law" (Matthew - 5:17). How can we accept hearsay about Jesus that directly contradicts what Jesus said?

Christ's teachings are the reason true Christianity is superior to Islam.

Muhammad, peace be upon him, only reaffirmed what Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, brought. It is only the Mass Media version of Islam that gives us the impression that Muslims are out to kill everybody.

Christ has led you to this site in order to open your eyes and release you from spiritual bondage

former liberal WF, I believe that I am a true Christian because I affirm the true message that Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, brought. And I am not in spiritual bondage. Islam has a rich tradition of spirituality.

Posted by: Shukri at April 17, 2005 3:43 PM

Robert Spencer wrote:FBI agents on an immigration marriage scam case stumble into something more sinister: jihad.

The demographic threat to the West posed by muslims already here, is far more dangerous then the terror threat. As such, immigration scams of bringing in more muslims then are already entering, is a far greater threat to the long term peace and social cohesion of our society.
-----------------------------
Whether Christianity is far "superior" as a religious faith then islam or not; in fact all religions are far superior to islam, is not relevant. What is relevant is that muslim jihadis, supported passively by the vast majority of muslims, are waging war on the rest of the world, and doing so based on their conviction that allah and mohammed enjoin them to do so.

As this is a war/jihad that we face, it is perplexing why our governments in the West, continue to apply a judicial approach, to what is clearly an unconventional war being waged on us from within.

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 4:02 PM

D C Watson:The Qur'an is a glorified combat strategy handbook, and should be placed in a glass case with a sign that says, "Break glass only in the event of war".

The qur'an as a combat strategy book was of value when battles were fought with swords and spears, and primarily local in the area of combat. However, the scientific and industrial revolution, products of a free society, moved the fighting of wars to a more global arena. This could be the reason that muslims, basing their strategy on the qur'an - a byproduct of a subjugated and conformist society, have been consistently losing all wars that they have started in the last century or more.

Thus even the values of the qur'an as a war manual are for a bygone age, and have no value in the modern age.

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 4:22 PM

DP. You're correct. However, my point was that the Qur'an is loaded with commands of war. And about the Qur'an not being useful for anything these days, well, I beg to differ with you my friend. The following are uses that may apply:

Beer coaster.

Lumberjacks out in the woods for long periods of time, and nowhere near a restroom.

Bonfires at Friday nite football pep rallys.

Bird cages (bottom).

Puppy training.

Paper football.

Fly swatter.

Posted by: DCWatson at April 17, 2005 7:56 PM

D C Watson

Lightheartedly.

Beer coaster - too heavy

Bonfires - books do not burn easily

Birdcages - insufficient coverage area

Paper football - depends on whether it is British or American football.

Fly swatter - too heavy for the task - sledgehammer to swat a fly, comes to mind.

Puppy training - depends on the puppy. Given the aversion of islam to dogs, some puppies may find it "insensitive" of you, in giving them the koran to play with.

BTW - keep up the good work.

Posted by: DP111 at April 17, 2005 8:10 PM

Mawlawi, 54, is a naturalized U.S. citizen who served in the Navy for 12 years. He is also a citizen of his native Syria

Paul Sperry
lists as one of ten things to do to fight Islamic Terorism in Infiltration, that elimination of dual citizenship is important, as well as rigid enforcement of loyalty oaths.

I think it is a great idea, my ex wife had to renounce her Panamanian Citizenship when she naturalized, but this will severely upset American Israelis, who might be the biggest obstacle to elimination of dual citizenship.

One cannot be a citizen of two countries, because one can't be loyal to two countries at the same time. (Nor can one be a Muslim and pledge allegiance to a Kafir country either).

Posted by: Giaour at April 17, 2005 8:22 PM

Big Sleep don't get your shorts in a rip over marriage, it is only the remnants of a pagan ritual, in which the virgin that was to be sacrificed to the gods was washed, dressed in white, perfumed, garlanded with flowers and paraded before the populace before being presented to the Priest/King (who first took his pleasure) then sacrificed her to keep her mouth shut as to what went on inside the temple.

Marriage is simply a commitment of two people in front of the community, in fact having it endorsed by the State is a rather new phenomenon, a necessary consequence following on the Income Tax amendment, which created a state monopoly on marriage licenses (tax filing status of Married).

My grandparents were sons and daughters of pioneers in the Arkansas territory, they married without benefit of the state, by standing up in front of the congregation and exchanging vows, the marriages were not even recorded in the county courthouse but in the Family Bible and in the church records. And their births weren't record in the public record either.

People don't need permission of that abomination called the state to make a lifelong commitment to each other. The state has it's purposes (financial and tracking, insurance and banking) for exercising a monopoly over marriage.

Think about it Drivers License, Hunting License, Marriage License, and now a birth certificate is a license to breathe, permission of the state to breath and work, especially since parents have to register their kids at age 5 for a SSA number, just to claim a paltry personal exemption.

The state has absolutely no business being involved in Marriage period, if there is a need to provide legal protection, for heirs, and matters of property then there are other alternatives, such as Civil Contracts, Powers of Attorney and Wills. In fact a Civil Contract is superior to a marriage license, because it can be drawn up to preclude all kinds of nonsense and litigation that comes about in a divorce.

The only beneficiaries of marriage licensing is the state, attorneys, judges and all of the other jobs that make money from lawyering.

Posted by: Giaour at April 17, 2005 8:36 PM

OK DP, you're right. I concede. Those were my last attempts to find uses for this sensational book. I guess it really is useless after all.

Posted by: DCWatson at April 17, 2005 8:55 PM

We have a 'would/could-be' pagan terrorist get aboard an American A/carrier in Britain. Now this ex 'American??'sailor who holds dual?? citizenship caught in Memphis.An English teacher oh! yes - oops a couple of pink pigs just flew past. How much and what quality of information did this pagan give to his masters about U.S. naval matters? Why oh why do we western nations allow these pagans so much trust and freedom in OUR country.Why do we treat them as if they are decent ,honourable,trustworthy or as one of us? When they can never be one of us. This duplicitous pagan should be stripped of his US citizenship, then jailed for 20 years, then sent home to live in his squalid,fly blown, miserable stinking homeland.

Posted by: numbat at April 17, 2005 11:36 PM

ALLEGED????? negative! there is no "alleged" .AND it is not a "conspiracy",It is only what it is. Your words give you away .
Sorry Average Joe, it is only an accusation. Not even the most "terrorist" of the Muslims has ever made a claim to "destroying the West". To my knowledge, they have all said that they are reacting against Western invasion and occupation of Muslim lands and Western support for tyrannical Middle East regimes that oppress and kill Muslims.

It isnot a "conspriacy,it is the OBLIGATION of ALL Muslims
Hmm. When I was studying the Basics of Islam at the feet of an Islamic scholar, I wasn't taught that. Perhaps you know more than this scholar, who has been studying and teaching Islam for most of his 96 years and has memorised (yes, memorised) the Quran, the 7 books of hadith and their commentaries, several Tafaseer of the Quran (including the massive tafseer of Imam Al Qurtubi) and innumerable other texts on Islamic Law and spirituality.
Posted by: Shukri at April 17, 2005 03:43 PM

I put forth nothing about DESTROYING the west, Only to bring it under rule of Shari'ah under ISLAM
Not MY words anyways,... but ISLAMIC teachings
Lookie here:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=26125&dgn=4

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=5275&dgn=4

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=8961&dgn=4

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=20214&dgn=4

Posted by: AvrageJoe at April 18, 2005 8:13 AM

Ah - posted on wrong thread before. Ah well:

Shurki: I know, I've never heard about it either until I came to this site. In "Why Jihad Watch" on the main site, its says:

"Because the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists...to destroy the West"

That comment refers to "jihadists". How does it implicate all muslims? Are all muslims somehow "jihadists"?

"I dunno, Geoff. With the imprisonment of Jose Padilla, an American citizen, without charges or trial, I thought that a trial is no longer required."

I dunno, Shurki - did you have any evidence of this, or are you ignoring anti-terrorist legislation? I wish it weren't necessary, myself. Guess as long as people continue to ignore terrorism in their societies, this kind of thing is going to continue. Ah well.

"Regarding current nations with Muslim majorities, most of them are tyrannical nations (usually heavily supported by the West ex: Saudi Arabia & Egypt) who have only show trials if they have them at all when it comes to accused "Islamists"."

Or Christians. Or religious minorities. Yes, it seems that sharia law is not meeting up to expectations. I suppose you might say that it weren't sharia, and I'd be inclined to believe you, if only those countries didn't say that it was, in fact, sharia. Why do you continue to believe in a system that does not work?

"He is only charged with Immigration law violations & Conspiracy. No illegal weapons charges, meaning that he was probably licensed to have those weapons."

Of course. And the passports were part of his personal art collage. Are non-citizens allowed to own weapons in the United States?

Geoff: Ah, but the US HAS declared war - on terror.
Shurki: Sorry, it is absurd to declare war on a noun.
Me: Quite right. They have declared war on terrorists. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks for the links. They proved my points about divorce and inheritance law being unfair, to say nothing of stoning. How do these horrible iniquities continue in islam?

Geoff: Jesus is not recognized by anyone I've ever heard to recognize the OT law excepting the Ten Commandments by the phrase in Matthew.
Shurki: It does not state that this is only the Ten Commandments.

Regrets, it does not say that it is not only the Ten Commandments. I have never heard of "the law" described in any other way, and the Jesuit priests I talk to said to assure you that this is in fact the meaning - the Ten Commandments only. Since you appeal to authority of a particular imam, then I know you understand this point.

Similarly, they also tell me that Jesus stopped the stoning while simultaneously illustrating his point. It is frankly impossible that he allowed the stoning to continue thereafter, or that he allowed stoning.

"This is proven by Jesus, peace be upon him, subsequently asking the woman, "Where are your accusers? hath no man condemned thee? " and she replied "No man, my Lord". Then Jesus, peace be upon him, replied "Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more""

Shurki: "She was not set free because the law was abolished. She was set free because a condition of the law (witness/ accuser required) was not fulfilled."

I regret to say that there is no evidence of what you say in the passage above. First you explain Jesus' words as being a legal statement - but then you (accidentally, I imagine) cite "Go forth and sin no more." Thus, Jesus is clearly illustrated, in this refutation of sharia law, that the woman was in fact guilty - "Go forth and sin NO MORE" - but that the practice of stoning was wrong. I thank you for your recognition of ignorance in this matter, and I refer you to the New Testament.

I also thank you for your voice on this forum: the more I listen to you, the more interested in Christianity I become, and the more incredulous of islam! It's a fascinating transformation.

Joe: "It is not the eyes that are blind but the hearts in the breasts of men"
Shurki: "Jesus peace be upon him, is not negating the dietary laws but he is emphasizing that people should not utter foul speech."

Regrets, but this would also seem to be wrong. Have you ever heard of an allegory, or a metaphor, perhaps?

"Sorry, the Quran never states anywhere that a woman is "worth half a man". It instead refers to women as the partners of men."

Sorry, but this is not so. The only place in the Quran in which women and men are referred to as 'equals' is in divine punishment or reward. The legal value of women being half of that of men is indicated in Q 4:11 and Q 2:282. Did you not know of these passages, or were you using da'wa before?

Again, I wish I could believe you about the consensus of muslim views; from what I see on this site, in the news and in your holy texts, it seems highly unlikely, sorry.

Shurki: "Roxane, we are told by Paul(Romans 10:4) that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the end of the law. But we are told by Jesus himself, peace be upon him that "Think not that I am come to destroy the law" (Matthew - 5:17). How can we accept hearsay about Jesus that directly contradicts what Jesus said?"

Sorry, but these are not in logical conflict. The "end" of the law does not in any way correspond to its "destruction", but rather marks the final point of that law. Ergo, you cannot really be a follower of Jesus Christ, since you add prophets to his message.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 18, 2005 9:51 AM