I think this koran flushing business is baloney. The editors of Newsweek have the onus (anus?) upon them to prove these malicious allegations levelled against the US military. Recall that Newsweek felt no need to substantiate its claim, to back it up in any way whereas the military set up an investigation. Sometimes, can't help but think the media is the hand in glove with the enemy.

As for these protests and all, they'l follow a familiar pattern. what will be of interest to monitor is the reaction to these protests - whether rational or dhimmified in tone. Condi rice has already made a bad beginning. I just hope Dubya won't have to make any statement on this fiasco.

Posted by: voletti at May 14, 2005 8:36 AM

I sometimes wonder how many understand that the Quran is the Constitution of Saudi Arabia.

Our governments remarks not only lend credence to the Islamic faith, but act to legitimize the Constitution of Saudi Arabia.

Perhaps we need to sit down and ask ourselves is Islam really a religion or is it more of a politcal ideology.

LHM
An American Expat in Southeast Asia

Posted by: LHM at May 14, 2005 8:38 AM

The name is Kaos as in chaos, ktrl an in control
islam is a seditious poltical hate group that should be RICO'd

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at May 14, 2005 8:56 AM

Yes, I remember the horrible rioting and bloodshed all over the world when the Taliban blew up the Buddhas. It was just like this...oh, wait, that didn't happen, did it?

Qur'an!
Qur'an!
Qur'an!

Drat! It's still here. That worked with Beetlejuice.

Posted by: QuickHenryTheFlit at May 14, 2005 9:01 AM

How easily stirred up is muslim rage. As simple to create as whipped cream, but the resulting froth is quite toxic.

Posted by: Skeet Street at May 14, 2005 9:15 AM

What happened to the backbones of the U.S. administration? Sure, they can't "support" any act that seems stupid. What official would say "I support the flushing of books down toilets, especially when they are the stupid koran." But, they SHOULD NOT be saying the koran is "holy". They SHOULD NOT be saying they'll investigate who did this. They SHOULD NOT be saying that such acts are abhorrant.

What should be causing outrage is how bibles aren't allowed into Saudi Arabia. Christians not being able to evangelize should offend our sensibilities (since Christians are REQUIRED to spread the word and thus such actions are "holy".) We should be offended and outraged that freedom of speech, something that's almost religious to us, isn't allowed in other lands. We should be demanding that women have equality as it not being in certain places offends us.

We should all threaten the Republicans who have lost their backbone with the loss of our votes if don't start telling it like it is.

Posted by: boxter at May 14, 2005 9:51 AM

And yet in the last three weeks alone Saudia Arabia's muttawa (religious police) along with high ranking Muslim Sheikhs' have broken into at least two homes in Riyadh and Confiscated Bibles, necklesses with crosses on them (what do they do with with those Bibles?) and arrested over 100 Christians caught praying. Some of those arrested have not been heard from by their families since. But there is hardly a whisper from the Christian community or the U.S. Government.

Posted by: Mackie at May 14, 2005 10:24 AM

What are the 5 pillars of Islam again?

- Exaggeration?
- Propaganda?
- Distortion?
- Spin-Doctoring?
- Accusation?

Is there such a thing as a moderate?

"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."

www.meforum.org/article/168

Posted by: Report at May 14, 2005 11:00 AM

Abhorrent? Doesn't she mean 'Commendable'?? If it were true that is. Then again when your muslim, who needs the truth.

Posted by: Absolution at May 14, 2005 11:14 AM

This story just makes me want to puke! Our government leaders should tell all Islam people to grow up and get over it.

The Koran is a book of war - not a holy book. Read it - it speaks for itself! Where are those so "holy people" when they hear and see humans slaughtered? Do we see them protesting in the streets when that happens? Not hardly.

Why aren't we taking to the streets to protest when we see them burn our flag, or worse yet, chop off our citizen's heads? They are only using this as a reason to kill more people and make more war.

I haven't forgotten who attacked us on 9/11. Seems like our government has.

Posted by: Southernbelle at May 14, 2005 11:15 AM

I understand Secretary of States Rice's predicament. There is no doubt that she clearly understands the problem with Islam. Even Bat Ye-Or was asked about the secretary of states defence of Islam and the Quran and she clearly understood why Secretary Rice had to take that position. she recognizes that it very important to not polarize the entire ummah thus allowing the doors of some degree of peaceful resolutions through out the world whenever possible.

You don't want to alienate those that are true moderates. It would be non-productive to have our State Department Chief reprentative openly paint all of Islam with a militant brush no matter how true some of it may be.

An example would be the anti-terrorism march today may 14th being put on by Muslims in washington DC.

Posted by: Mackie at May 14, 2005 11:46 AM

Batten down the hatches. I have it on good authority that someone at Gitmo has flushed a copy of the holy book, Mein Kampf down the toilet.

Even better, let's get it over with right now:

A thousand copies of the Koran, two entire sets each of al-Bukhari and Muslim, and no less than 100 copies of the Sira have been flushed down the toilets at Gitmo in an effort to clean out the pipes. It was just routine mainenance and there happened to be more copies of the above on hand than were needed by the detainees to do the job. The Marine guards use the surplus books to light their pork chop barbeques down at the recreation centre because of the quality of the smoke that imparts a particularly pleasant taste to the pork chops.

The message here is that thousands of Korans are now burning ceremoniously in backyards all over America, Australia and the UK. Come and get it. If the Muslims want to counter these acts, they are free to burn whatever they like, especially each other. We really, really, really, no really, don't care. And if they want to work themselves into a frenzy and have bloody riots, be our guests.

If all we have to do is generate ridiculous rumours like this to spark internecine mayhem throughout the ummah, who needs guns? I'll bet the Monty Python writers could win the war all by themselves just by cooking up these absurd rumours every day.

Oh, and don't forget that all Western medicines distributed in Muslim countries are secretly contaminated by the CIA to cause sterility in Muslim men.

I can't wait until they find out that secret US military satellites are beaming down electro-magnetic subliminal tachyons on Muslim countries that stimulate the brains of its victims to have unclean thoughts and that allow jinns to penetrate the soul without detection.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at May 14, 2005 11:47 AM

Right, maybe between those secret electro-magnetic subliminal tachyons and the fact that they are killing themselves day in and day out will mean that most of them will be gone in a couple of years.

It is ridiculous that so-called "humans" are so stupid to believe that a book is more important than human life.

I'm with Hulegu Kahn, I don't believe there are many Americans, Aussies, or Brits that give a d*** how many Korans were flushed down the toilet.

Posted by: Southernbelle at May 14, 2005 12:39 PM

They are lucky to have toilets. Up until 1996 many prisoners in UK prisons had no flush toilet facilities and had to use a lidded bucket while in their cells. The practice was called slopping out. Further, Alexander Solzhenitsyn commented that it was not the presence of the slop bucket that was the affront to humanity but it's absence. During his time in the Gulags he spent long periods in places where access to a lavatory was limited, and denial was used as a punishment.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 14, 2005 1:03 PM

Liberals can immerse a crucifix in a jar of urine and call it art. Grow up muzis.

O/T - Is there any media on FMAT’s march today?

Posted by: Cross at May 14, 2005 1:13 PM

Ah... Hulagu Khan. My favorite Mongol pagan warrior. Sacked Baghdad. Stormed and killed off the impregnable Persian mountain fortress of the Muhammadan assassin's cult. The leader (old man of the mountain) was kicked to death. What's not to like? :)

He was written up for 5 pages in an April2005 issue of the New Yorker

Posted by: dennisw at May 14, 2005 1:31 PM

The power of the collective, cult mentality of Islam, is not grasped by our government, an unforgivable negligence that costs American lives and resources.

The war on terror is a sham; this is a defensive war against global Islamic Jihad driven by a collectivist mentality and ideology; how far from the surface is violent 'Islamic inflammation' in the millions who feel the pain of the Ummah? And when Muslim violence, riots, murder, 'burst out' around the globe, many are still 'shocked'.

Shock should be transformed to anticipation.

Posted by: JTF at May 14, 2005 1:45 PM

"I'm with Hulegu Kahn, I don't believe there are many Americans, Aussies, or Brits that give a d*** how many Korans were flushed down the toilet."

Posted by: Southernbelle

There may not be a large number who care, but there are some. I read their letters to the editor on an almost daily basis. This wonderful movie "Kingdom of Heaven" has brought out the idiots.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 14, 2005 2:21 PM

In case some do not know me, I should have added a sarcasm tag to my post about the movie being "wonderful".

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 14, 2005 2:23 PM

http://www.masada2000.org/drawing.JPG

Posted by: shiva at May 14, 2005 2:39 PM

With all of these riots and protests going on in the muslim world, one must ask the question: Don't these people have jobs?

Posted by: Skeet Street at May 14, 2005 2:43 PM

Course they don't have jobs, they have not done a single productive thing in their whole racist bigotted and stupid hate filled lives.

Oh well, I liked the European response, why should we give you money if you keep destroying things!

Posted by: Daffersd at May 14, 2005 2:55 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/575852.html

A few comments on the aforementioned link. Article references are contained within quotes.

"Several Palestinian Islamic groups in the Gaza Strip called for a boycott of products from the United States Saturday adding their voice to the Muslim world outrage over the alleged desecration of Islam's holy book, the Koran..."

Will Palestinians demand that US aid to Palestine or any other muslim nation be stopped? Why not a clean break? Sounds excellent to me.

" "The United States is reiterating its hostile position to Islam. Reoccupying the Moslems lands was not enough for America, but it also continues with humiliating Moslems everywhere," the statement said. "

The tenuous strand called Islam must be taut for if the doctrine is superior to all else then why doesn't it exercise full reign over the world? Could the humiliation spoken of actually be a creeping doubt concering the validity of the Prophet's message? Clinging harder to that message is all the muslim world has.

"In the Yemeni capital, thousands of San'a University students demonstrated on campus, chanting "Death to America!" "

Okay, let's fantasize. America is dead. What then? Will the 'creeping doubt' subside as the Islamic dream is finally realized? Dream on...

" "The Arab League asks - if this news is correct - that the U.S. administration deals with these accusations with the required seriousness and punish with the harshest possible penalty all those proven to have played a role in, or planned, such a crime,"..."

Crime? Harshest possible penalty? It is indeed a clash of civilizations if muslims believe that the majority of non-muslims think this act to be a "crime" let alone one that deserves the "harshest possible penalty."

Indeed, it is impossible for the muslim world to accept the reality that most non-muslims couldn't care even one iota for their holy book.

The fervor isn't here, but freedom from that fervor truly is.

Posted by: Skeet Street at May 14, 2005 3:35 PM

while on the subject of flushing

http://www.arkaisk.dk/mein-kampf2.jpg

Posted by: shiva at May 14, 2005 3:49 PM

Daffersd,

It appears you are correct. Read on:

"The Islamic Nation's Problem is That Muslims Do Not Work."

http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=645

Posted by: Skeet Street at May 14, 2005 5:50 PM

"We will not tolerate any disrespect for the holy Koran,"

"calling disrespect to the holy book "abhorrent to us all"."

This is for you Scott, Condi: #*

Posted by: butterfly at May 14, 2005 6:38 PM

It seems that the "greater than" symbol causes any text following it to be deleted. Can someone enlighten me please.

Posted by: butterfly at May 14, 2005 6:51 PM

I can't wait until they find out that secret US military satellites are beaming down electro-magnetic subliminal tachyons on Muslim countries that stimulate the brains of its victims to have unclean thoughts and that allow jinns to penetrate the soul without detection.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan

I am ROLLING!

You should be a comedian - NOT is Saudi Arabia though

lols

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:14 PM

They are lucky to have toilets.

Granny Weatherwax

now I am dying

O is that funny

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:16 PM

The denial part is not funny

know

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:18 PM

With all of these riots and protests going on in the muslim world, one must ask the question: Don't these people have jobs?

Skeet - Not on Friday

It's Incitement Day

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:22 PM

Will Palestinians demand that US aid to Palestine or any other muslim nation be stopped? Why not a clean break? Sounds excellent to me.

Skeet

You forgot to include the U.N.

America's been paying them the Islamic tax 'Jizya' for TOOOOOOOOOOO long!

Okay, let's fantasize. America is dead. What then?

Good Question

The fervor isn't here, but freedom from that fervor truly is.

But - Islamic communities are popping up everywhere. Even making demands that must have American grave yards looking like waves.

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:32 PM

And we know that Yahweh’s Scriptures were not altered when Muhammad alleges they were changed

Carolyn - I just have share this with you.

Isa 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by ''''a new name'''' which the mouth of the LORD [His Word] shall name.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat ''''of the hidden manna'''' [It's in His Word] and will give him a white stone, and in the stone

''''a new name written''''

which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it

Carolyn - I have so much on my site about the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is an interesting topic!

A young Arab boy found the scrolls. I think he was 10. He knew he found something and ran to get his father - who was wise enough NOT to touch them.

That happen in the VERY same year the U.N. agreed to establishing a state called Palestine - 1947.

In those Scrolls - was the WHOLE Book of Isaiah.

Every book had a piece included - except Esther [which is an interesting pondering - go read it]

But the prophecy of Palestine's destruction was right there - in Isaiah. It confirmed what we had ALL along - written before the Koran - but kept untouched - and NOT found till well AFTER the Koran.

Isa 14:31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

And the 'Christian' leaders of this world are making the exact same mistake the Jewish leaders did during the time Of Christ - [missing all the prophecies about Jesus]

They [The Christian voices of this world] overlooked it.

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 8:42 PM

From Skeet Street's link,
" How come the Zionist gang has managed to be superior to us, despite being so few? It has become superior through knowledge, through technology, and through strength. It ahs become superior to us through work. We had the desert before our eyes but we didn't do anything with it. When they took over, they turned it into a green oasis. How can a nation that does not work progress? How can it grow?"

islam rejects the G-d of Israel, but this desert blossoming is a prophecy:

Isaiah 27:6 says -

In the days to come, Jacob shall take root; Israel shall bud and blossom and shall cover the face of the earth with produce.

Just took G-d's chosen people coming home to their promised land to make it productive again.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 14, 2005 8:57 PM

Beth, I am a student of prophecy ( not officially, but by interest ) These are VERY interesting days we are living in, aren't they?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 14, 2005 9:00 PM

This Koran flushing thing has really struck a nerve in the ummah. They seem to be more concerned about that and being humiliated, than they are about getting whacked by a JDAM. So here's what I propose:

From this day forward, I'm going to flush one Koran a day until Osama bin Laden and Zarkawi both either turn themselves in or commit "martyrdom". So for every day these scumbags continue to breathe, one Koran goes down the toilet. It's their own fault. To save the Koran, all they have to do is comply with my demands. They have 48 hours.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at May 14, 2005 9:02 PM

Slightly OT, but a good link: islamic leaflets on a variety of subjects

http://www.islamic-state.org/leaflets/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 14, 2005 9:09 PM

Beth, I am a student of prophecy ( not officially, but by interest ) These are VERY interesting days we are living in, aren't they?

Carolyn? Are they EVER!!!

For those who are looking through the prophecies

It is MIND BLOWING!

and when you try to share them - people jump up and reject [not without merrit - mind you]

But it is interesting - Indeed!

Posted by: Beth at May 14, 2005 9:37 PM

Hulequ Khan,
Sounds like a plan! Flush the koran. Flush islam. The world will then be a better place.

Posted by: WatchfulEye at May 14, 2005 10:56 PM

So what lesson do we take from this?

Since the Muslim mob (ummah) will riot on any unsubstantiated allegation that a disbeliever defiled the jihad manual (Koran), Muslims cannot be deemed reliable allies. Therefore it is essential that we treat them as enemies. Ergo: we engage in nation-destruction in the Muslim tyrannies.

Posted by: smokem at May 15, 2005 12:36 AM

The moral of the story is this:
westerners are afraid of muslims,period.
It is not political correctness,it is not diplomacy,it is pure fear that motivates western politicians and western media to behave so submissive towards islam.
I know a person that has friends in high places in Hollywood;she told me that as stuppid as the Hollywood crowd is,they are not total idiots,they know what is going on with islam,they`ve heard of Theo Van Gogh,but they won`t say a thing because they are scared,they don`t want to end up like Theo,they don`t want their homes and studios to be bombed.
Same thing in western Europe...a good freind of mine that lives in Goteborg,Sweden (he intends to bring his family to the US ),said that people over there are even afraid to make eye contact with young muslims,when walking on the streets of their own cities and suburbs...they are afraid to insult muslims with a word,with a look or with anything else that may couse their dangerous rage.
Scared or not,we will eventually have to stand up against them,or give up our national identity,religion,traditions and our lives.

Posted by: adela at May 15, 2005 1:03 AM

Also of interest,check out the Free Muslims Against Terrorist march in DC,today.....there were no more than 10-15 muslims there,to protest terrorism.
Pictures taken at the event,available at the littlegreenfootballs website.

Posted by: adela at May 15, 2005 1:21 AM

"the rage of impotence" ... that's what these riots are all about

Posted by: fishboy at May 15, 2005 3:18 AM

Also of interest,check out the Free Muslims Against Terrorist march in DC,today.....there were no more than 10-15 muslims there,to protest terrorism.
Pictures taken at the event,available at the littlegreenfootballs website.

Posted by: adela

GET OUT OF TOWN! Are you serious?

This is GOOD

VERY GOOD!

Believe me!

Posted by: Beth at May 15, 2005 5:08 AM

Hulegu Khan--Since you're in the mood for flushing the Qur'an down the toilet (sorry--I'm keeping mine for reference. Never did like book burnings in any form), why not get a little creative and up the ante?

Why not also demand that the Sa'udi government make an accounting of every Bible, cross, fish symbol, magen david, etc. that it's confiscated, return them to their owners plus four times market value, or give compensation at a rate of five times market value (after all, OUR Holy Book demands compensation in Exodus 22, not the amputation of a hand), and, if the owners were imprisoned, they should get $50,000 for every day detained, plus another $500,000 if tortured.

We should also demand that the KSA declare that the Covenant of 'Umar is null and void; that the Grand Mosques of Makka and Medina are open to tourists (we'll let them require modest dress and respectful behavior--as theu do for Michelangelo's pile of stone in Rome) as well as worshippers; and that the KSA allows freedom of religion with right of conversion from Islam to something else.

We'll demand as well the surrender of all Hamas members to the IDF; and of all Hezbollahis to the post-Syrian Lebanese government.

Posted by: Kepha at May 15, 2005 5:09 AM

I spent time in Camp Delta dealing with the detainees and I must say that when I first heard the allegations, I laughed. How stupid! There is more than one person involved in the interrogation process. The interrogators are only allowed to interrogate in authorized areas and the interrogations are under constant supervision by third parties. This would mean that the detainee would be taken to a bathroom not authorized for detainees and staff use while someone flushed pages of the Quran down the toilet in order to get them to talk.
First of all, it’s an ineffective interrogation approach. Second, procedures are so scrutinized and micromanaged that many people would have their heads on a chopping block. Third, if this occurred, why didn’t the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) publish these finding before Newsweek? They conduct personal interviews with the detainees and none of these allegations were reported. Every step was taken to ensure that the detainees were treated fairly.

See below link;
http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/678FK8?OpenDocument&style=custo_print

Once again, reporters and writers will believe any account just to get a breaking news article. American people, let’s get smart. It’s clear that we need to corroborate similar topics with pure, unadulterated fact; period.

As for the riots in Afghanistan, they probably were instigated by some so-called scholar with internet access. Remember, Afghanistan is still stuck in the 1960’s when it comes to modernization. I spent 4 months in Kabul and it was not uncommon to see animal drawn carriages and meet elders who have never seen a cell phone. Uninformed Afghans are very impressionable. A lot of merit was placed in this Newsweek article because it was viewed as credible compared to their media sources. After all, Americans will do and say anything for a buck!

Posted by: marine02xx at May 15, 2005 9:39 PM