I have to ask:
I know that muslims have a concept of idolatry similar in some ways to Christianity. Are there any muslims criticising the outrage of alleged desecration on that basis?

It seems to me that killing someone over the physical well-being of a book certainly qualifies as idolatrous.

Posted by: urthshu at May 22, 2005 8:45 AM

Bravo Diana.

The deniers will have to ever more tightly shut their eyes and ears now that the differences between the 'value systems' of islam and the west are glaring and blatant.

BTW, an amazing, amazing essay by Bill Whittle on trying to change the deniers. I am sooo moved.
Click here for the link to "Sanctuary".

Posted by: voletti at May 22, 2005 9:01 AM

Amazing article - there is no excuse for those who defend islam.

Posted by: Laurel at May 22, 2005 9:07 AM

Another question, by way of implications:
I have a copy of the Koran. In it, I've written verses from the Torah & the Bible, both supporting and argumentive, in order to get a theological 'handle' upon it.

Since Islam 'respects & venerates' both prior books as the authentic word of God, have I thus desecrated it or enhanced it's holiness?

Almost seems like a 'bomb' question to me. The implications of asking muslims to consider it thoughtfully, then to hear their answer, might be enlightening.

Posted by: urthshu at May 22, 2005 9:13 AM

Voletti,
Great link you provided, I saved it to read all of it later but the little I read was great and it is what defines us from the rest of the world.
SANCTUARY

Now why is it that the U.S. defends the koran yet cares nothing for our BOOK's?

Dont get me wrong, I support the First Amendment...as it pertains to every thing.

Seperation of Church and State I dont like but "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" and we should not abhor to they're beliefs one bit. We here all know and probably own a copy of the koran and its horrific contents, I will show no respect for the book or those that adhere to its proclamations.

Muslims have desecrated volumes of Chritianity and they are held accountable by GOD. People died over a false report because of it and now the Muslim world is up in arms about it demanding this and that be done...well I have news for those choose this path and it aint good so I'll keep it in but YOU KNOW.

Posted by: chuck at May 22, 2005 9:26 AM

To hutchrun & scourge_of_landos,

I am glad that there are some more people of indian decent on this forum.Welcome.

I am forever posting this link, print it out and put it on the notice board at the mandir, in fact e mail to all you know.

Labour have sold them selves to the moslems, they want turkey in the EU, if that happens it will be a disaster. Why are hindus/sikh voting for them ?

http://www.themuslimweekly.com/newspaper/viewfullstory.aspx?NewsID=NW00002041

Posted by: apostate_islam at May 22, 2005 12:08 PM

It's amazing to me how easilly some people convert/revert from one religious ideology to the next. Most often without even looking below surface impressions, to see what they are really getting into. In my estimation, the Quran/Qu'ran/Koran is not a HOLY book and there is no point in trying compare it to other accepted scripture, such as the Bible. True, there are some nice verses in Quran, but those fall into the..."looks good, sounds good, does nothing", catagory. Those verses are there to make mind benting justifications for jihad and conducting one war after another. As we all know, Islam means "submission". Allah makes no bones about his muslims being his slaves, comnmenting on this in Quran and some hadith.
Abdallah, means "slave to Allah". Every muslim is Abdallah like it or not. There is something about slavery, any slavery, that gnaws on the human spirit. Slavery eats away at human vitality both mentally and physically. Muslims dull the deletarious effects of Abdallahism by
accepting it as the price you pay for Allahs heaven and then to make themselves feel better about that, they deny their slavery. But Allah knows best so they are his slaves, deny it or not. But Allah is not around to keep his slaves in line and collect that all important tax. Those dutys are assigned to Mullahs, Imams and Ayatollahs, using Allahs/Mohammads words (Quran-Hadith) as their guide. So the actual slave masters are the religious leaders of Islam. Since only a government can levy a tax, Islam has imagined itself to be a gov since Mohammad instituted the "pole tax"...And who are the biggest benificiaries of all this tax, loot and power? Do you see any Ayatollahs who look like they have missed any meals?
Allahs slaves provide two main functions, they keep those Ayatollahs in fine fabrics and food, and they spread Islam, by comnversion or conquest, so that Allah can keep those fine threads on clerics. Islam is a scam...it enslaves people for material gain, using Allah as a reason. A book that instructs in criminality and warfare cannot be a "Holy book". But it can be, and is, a book of war, conquest and confiscations (loot). In this way Quran is an unholy "manual" of violence, deception, murder and robbery". There is just nothing HOLY about it...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 22, 2005 12:15 PM

chuck-

"Seperation of Church and State I don't like..."?

There's a cozy little place where you wouldn't have this 'impediment to faith' to trouble you:

Saudi Arabia.

Flights leave daily.

Adieu.

urthshu-

Muslims are iconoclasts of OTHER people's religious objects. (Buddhas of Bamiyan, etc.)

If it is an Islamic object, however, they suddenly become as much an idolator as the cargo cultists of the South Seas.

For me, the toilet is more important than the Koran.

And more useful for civilization by far.

Posted by: BigSleep at May 22, 2005 1:34 PM

The response of Secretary Rice and House Representative Conyers to this fiction should give us all pause. Where are the leaders who should be saying, Shake the Handle?

Posted by: DrMack at May 22, 2005 4:51 PM

This story was started by a Muslim that was in Gitmo prison and he Alleges this happened,but I doubt this occured since we in the West know that it's illegal to dispose of "Toxic waste material"
into the sewage system since it will poison all people that come in contact with it AND cause brain damage that could lead to Paranoia or
Psychotic outbursts of death threats and
idiotic public protests for trivial issues
perceived as catastrophic events leading to
the destruction of the Earth.

Oops,I just discribe the Quran and Muhammeds
crusade of death and power.

Posted by: ala-sux at May 22, 2005 6:12 PM

"... but, I will defend to the death your right to flush it." Voltaire, or somebody.

Posted by: Havoc at May 22, 2005 6:33 PM

Another question, by way of implications: I have a copy of the Koran. In it, I've written verses from the Torah & the Bible, both supporting and argumentive, in order to get a theological 'handle' upon it.

Since Islam 'respects & venerates' both prior books as the authentic word of God, have I thus desecrated it or enhanced it's holiness?

Almost seems like a 'bomb' question to me. The implications of asking muslims to consider it thoughtfully, then to hear their answer, might be enlightening.
Posted by: urthshu

Too late for you to see the answer, but no Islam does not venerate the Torah and the Bible, on the contrary Muhammad claimed that the Jews and Christians corrupted their own bibles.

Because the Bibles of the Jews and Christians contradict Muhammads fairy tales (which are anachronist and silly) Adam was 90 ft tall, Mary was the sister of Moses and Aaron, Jesus was not the son of god and he didn't die on the cross.

Muhammads response to these contradictions was to kill the scoffer, and when the Arabs could kill all Jews and Christians they accepted them as dhimmis (for purposes of parasitism or Jizyah), but declared that their books were corrupted.

No they don't venerate the Bible, and Muhammad never referenced it other than calling Jews and Christians Peoples of the book (Sephardim in Ladino Sephar meaning book or scroll).

Posted by: Giaour at May 23, 2005 10:47 PM