I would like this person to explain if the religion of Adam, Noah, Moses and Jesus was Islam, how come words like Mecca, Ka'aba, qu'ran,
Muslim and Islam are not mentioned once in the Bible?

Posted by: Elephant at May 25, 2005 11:03 AM

Where can one find an application to become a "dirty zionist pagan"? From the email that was received, it sounds like the kind of group with which I want to associate. That is, unless free association will also be excised from the 1st Amendment, as exemplified by Rep. Conyers (Dhimmi-MI) ridiculous 'resolution' excising that part of the 1st Amendment that states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech. . . ."

As an aside, I am getting sick of living in "interesting times." It was a curse in Chinese, and is a curse on me now.

Posted by: Rick at May 25, 2005 11:06 AM

To paraphrase Han Solo, "Who's dirty?"

Man, I bet you do get some really interesting mail.

"helpin the true religion of god to conquer the universe"

Why would god need to conquer the universe he is supposed to have created? Sounds bogus to me. Why would I want to follow a god who can't manage his own freak'n universe in the first place?

These kinds of things defy reason and logic for a very simple reason. They are the product of unbalanced minds.

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at May 25, 2005 11:30 AM

Demented. Bloody. Maniacs.
Should be booted from every civilized society on the planet.

Posted by: skidd at May 25, 2005 11:39 AM

f.g. wants to know...

"Why would god need to conquer the universe he is supposed to have created? Sounds bogus to me".

Good question, I want to know that too...bogus sounds about right...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 25, 2005 11:51 AM

i was just wondering if the word dimwit comes from the root word dhimmitude? obviously, the question is rhetorical. dms

Posted by: dms at May 25, 2005 11:59 AM

Abraham was justified by faith.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for him alone that it was imputed to him,
Rom 4:24 but for us also to whom it is to be imputed, to the ones believing on Him who has raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 who was delivered because of our offenses and was raised for our justification.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Mohammadanism is justified by works.
008.017
YUSUFALI: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
004.095
YUSUFALI: Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home. But those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit at home by a special reward.

With a book as confusing and backward as this, it should not be surprising that Moslem countries cant get it together. As long as they follow this trumpery, they will forever be seeped in the inherent barbaric injustice of it.

Posted by: Bar at May 25, 2005 12:34 PM

While we're at it, why would a god who is omniscient, immutable, omnipresent, and just a general all powerful being require our worship and adoration in the first place? Again, no logical answer seems forthcoming. Were you to do apply human behavioral analysis to such a being you would conclude that he/she/it suffers from almost every phobia and psychosis known to man and then some. This is hardly a being a care to waste any time on much less prostrate myself before five times a day. Of course, he/she/it only exists in the imaginations of believers and all the teachings that supposedly were delivered by angels, inspiration, etc. are in reality just human doctrine.

I’d like to see a 1 Kings 18:20-40 showdown. Wonder why they don’t just do that and settle the matter huh? What? Oh, god doesn’t do that anymore because *insert rationalization here.”

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at May 25, 2005 12:47 PM

Now here is another guy showing that family in-breeding should not take place. Being able to read makes him literate, but does not make him educated.

He is talking about a era of time at first there was no religion, then you had over 1,400 years of worship of thousands of gods, then Judism, then 1,200 years later islam.

Even the Egyptians worshipped over 2,000 gods, and the Egyptians were not muslim. Instead of reading a falsified book, he should study the Egyptian archeology and he would see this and he would see NO muslim/islam anywhere.

The religions of the people of the Persian areasthat of that time that he referrances are specifically lacking islam. Go read, then believe.

If anything you might find a different race of people that existed. They were giants (yes, large people). They are stated many times in the Bible. The Jews after leaving Egypt did not want to go back into the "Promised Land" because of giant people. There have been thousands of graves and skeletons found supporting this in the Bible. As to why science does not try to intertwine that these giants existed is beyond me.

Google....giant humans.

But you will find no muslim.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at May 25, 2005 12:50 PM

This posting by Ethelred needs repeating regularly.

From Ali Sina at Faith Freedom

Muhammad:-
Hey people I am a prophet!

People: -
Where are your credentials?

Muhammad: -
Here is a letter that I have written that says I am a prophet.

People: -
But this is your own words.

Muhammad: -
No this is what Allah dictated and I wrote it.

People: -
How can we know you are not lying?

Muhammad: -
You are deaf, dumb and blind and you’ll burn in hellfire. 2.171, 6.39, 8.22, 17.97

Stupid people aka Muslims: -
Whoa! What a convincing argument! We believe.

Muhammad: -
Now let us go and raid merchant caravans.

Muslims: -
But isn’t stealing unethical?

Muhammad: -
No! Because you became poor after following me and are no more working, Allah has given you the right to lay hand on other people’s property. Also they oppressed you. You can kill them. Oppression is worse than killing 2:217 Now let us attack villages without warning and take the population by surprise while they are heedless and their cattle is being watered at places of water. We will kill their fighting men and take their women and children as captives. Remember that the prettiest of the captives is my share. [Bukhari 3.46.717 ]

Muslims: -
But isn’t raping married women sin?

Muhammad: -
No! Incidentally Allah sent me a verse this morning saying it is okay to have sex with your right hand possessions. 4:24 So rape them with clear conscience. But always remember that the prettiest captive belongs to Allah and his messenger. [Bukhari1.8.367]

Also from now on you don’t have to practice coitus interruptus. Go ahead and ejaculate inside your victims "for if any soul is predestined to exist, it will exist". [Bukhari 3.46.718, 5.59.459 Abu Dawood 29.29.32.95, 29.29.32.96]

Islam has always been about attacking and conquering others, enslaving or killing them, and then living off their slave labor, as disguised in pseudo-religious babble to both embolden the believers and fool the non-believer.

Apply the Golden Rule to Islam and treat it and Muslims as it and they would treat you in Saudi Arabia (the epicenter of the disease.)

Posted by: Ethelred at May 10

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 25, 2005 1:02 PM

http://www.stevequayle.com/

Information about Giants...also links to Northeast Intelligence Network...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 25, 2005 1:19 PM

Hate attracts hate. I would offer the opinion, Mr. Spencer, that you are merely the reflection of the person who sent you that email...of course you are more sophisticated...

Posted by: Shukri at May 25, 2005 1:42 PM

Duh, Swami, you had me going there about The Giants, you know which ones.

Posted by: Lisa at May 25, 2005 1:46 PM

Hate attracts hate, Shirki?

And what are you doing here, then, pray tell? =)

And Allah knows least.

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at May 25, 2005 2:21 PM

Geoff:

What about Shukri and the "sophistication" part of the "like seeking like" attraction formula?

Posted by: waterdragon52 at May 25, 2005 2:47 PM

If we have islamic rule here, this is what we can expect...(with thanks to Sarah D at LGF)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=9004593

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 25, 2005 3:00 PM

Hate attracts hate, Shirki?

And what are you doing here, then, pray tell? =)

Hate also attracts people who wish put it out, just as a house fire can attract thieves who wish to loot under cover of confusion but it also attracts firefighters who seek to put out the fire...

Posted by: Shukri at May 25, 2005 3:13 PM

Geez, no takers on the Mt. Carmel mexican standoff?

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at May 25, 2005 3:50 PM

Hate (Saddam, Mass Graves) also attracts people who wish put it out (The US and Coalition Forces), just as a house fire can attract thieves who wish to loot under cover of confusion (the museums in Bagdad, which were looted before we could even get there to free the city) but it also attracts firefighters who seek to put out the fire... (US!)

That's one interpretation... next?

Posted by: Gary at May 25, 2005 3:51 PM

Hi Guys;

OT but.........

Whilst thousands continue to die in the name of Islam, I'm sure you'll be reassured to know that some Muslims are just too busy nitpicking to embark on Jihad.

Geoff, I just love your catch phrase.

"And Allah knows least"

Regards,

kc

و لمن حتى لو بشرناكم نحن او بشركم ملاك من السماء بغر الانجيل الذي بشرناكم به فليكن ملعؤنا

Posted by: kc England at May 25, 2005 4:22 PM

Water, are you saying Shirki is sophisticated? I could see that argument for ME, I suppose, but Shirki?

Shame on you. You will have a triple punishment! I shall rev up the spanking machine. Gary can attest that this is indeed a terrible punishment, like being forced to wear panties on your head or watch Keanu Reeves struggle through dramatic dialogue.

"I know kung fu."

***

Shirki, I'm here because this site is reporting shocking news that no one else seems brave enough to do - it fills an essential gap in contemporary knowledge about religio-political ties in islamic faith.

As for why you're here: you're here to foment hate. Hate and evil draws righteous anger, but righteous anger sometimes draws more evil. I respond to you in this way: evil to him who thinks evil.

I do agree thought that the existence of drama ("fires", if you will) creates opportunities for the unjust to exploit - yet another reason, I expect, that you continue to dribble on here long after your being exposed as an utter swine.

Find thy immaculate bride, O' Shirki, a-dressed in swaddling clothes. It shalt not be a hard road for Lo! she is in grade school.

Swine.

And Bo knows Allah, but Allah knows Didley.

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at May 25, 2005 4:34 PM

Mr. Spencer
in response I suggest the Magnum Research Handguns - Mark XIX, 50 caliber (one hit stopping power, no escape the Pearly Gates and the virgin jackpot if you put your jihadists carcass in the sights)

btw:
-by islamojihadists logic/"thought process" - they are now occupiers of my nation (for one - I don't know if other nations consider the islamojihadists as uninvited occupiers, as I now do and in conjunction with a rapidly growing amount of people)
- how do we address these interlopers (is there a term to be used)?
- and does this mean we may treat them as such (as they whine and bemoan the so-called "unjust occupation" of the muslim lands and claim their rights to murder and terrorism to fight this condition)
-i.e. can the indiscriminate murder/terrorizing of the islamojihadist begin - whereever, whenever he be confronted -in my nation- even if hiding (behind women, children, elderly, in places of "worship", etc.-just look for the hooded cowards -they were once outlawed in our nation-why not now)?
-it seems that by his "rules" such reaction is not only justified but necessary?

islamojihadists occupiers GET OUT NOW or face your self-created consequences!

Posted by: PCKills! at May 25, 2005 4:54 PM

Mr. Spencer
in response I suggest the Magnum Research Handguns - Mark XIX, 50 caliber (one hit stopping power, no escape the Pearly Gates and the virgin jackpot if you put your jihadists carcass in the sights)

btw:
-by islamojihadists logic/"thought process" - they are now occupiers of my nation (for one - I don't know if other nations consider the islamojihadists as uninvited occupiers, as I now do and in conjunction with a rapidly growing amount of people)
- how do we address these interlopers (is there a term to be used)?
- and does this mean we may treat them as such (as they whine and bemoan the so-called "unjust occupation" of the muslim lands and claim their rights to murder and terrorism to fight this condition)
-i.e. can the indiscriminate murder/terrorizing of the islamojihadist begin - whereever, whenever he be confronted -in my nation- even if hiding (behind women, children, elderly, in places of "worship", etc.-just look for the hooded cowards -they were once outlawed in our nation-why not now)?
-it seems that by his "rules" such reaction is not only justified but necessary?

islamojihadists occupiers GET OUT NOW or face your self-created consequences!

Posted by: PCKills! at May 25, 2005 4:56 PM

May 25, 2005

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says

He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

Yes he has chosen the USA!!

TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]

And let’s look at another part?

The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,
Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?

There will be no more warnings?

Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??

And now Locus in Egypt

NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??

Kazakhstan Blast in mine??

Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??

Earthquake in Algeria??

The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.

YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??
What verses did he say in his rambling and to
say about the people of the book??

The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??

Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/

Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??

We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??
And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??

January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??

Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??

January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??

AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs
Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.

NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??
I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??

sympathy?
We need to learn and keep in mind that word sympathy is in the dictionary between the words SH_T and SYPHILIS!!!

http://www.gov.il/FirstGov/FirstGovNewsEng/NewsItem_2005_1_16_11_42.htm
Israeli Aid Arrives in Sri Lanka and Indonesia
Last Modified at:16-Jan-2005
About three weeks after the natural disaster in Southeast Asia, an EL AL plane flew to Sri Lanka and Indonesia, carrying 85 tons of emergency aid materials, donated by Israeli organizations and companies.
The plane landed in Colombo, Sri Lanka, with equipment for emergency kitchens donated by the National Council for Voluntarism, Koach Latet, and the United Kibbutz Movement. The kitchens will provide hot meals for some 4,000 people a day. In addition, these organizations and Magen David Adom donated medical equipment to set up a mobile clinic. Along with that arrived another medical delegation specializing in trauma, which will give a week-long seminar to local professionals.
From Colombo, the plane continued to Indonesia, and unloaded there 75 tons of emergency materials, among them 16 tons of baby food, 20 tons of medicines, 30 tons of rice flour, water, sugar and grains, plastic sheeting and more, donated by various trade companies.
The local officials expressed their great appreciation for the Israeli aid, that will reach, amongst others, thousands of orphans who lost their families in the disaster

Just a reminder??

WHERE OH WERE WERE THE ARAB PLANES FLYING IN AID TO THE KILLER WAVE VICTIMS??? A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT???

NOW WHAT WAS IT THE MONSTER WAS SAYING??

MORE ISLAMIC TERRORIST DEAD TODAY!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunetr
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at May 25, 2005 5:38 PM

it wont be long till they outnumber us, they procreate faster than rabbits and mice. sharia, here we come.

Posted by: dms at May 25, 2005 6:00 PM

Save the fatalist nonsense. The numbers indicate that it isn't the case anyway, although lots of islamicists like to blow up (no pun intended) the count by about 0.2 billion every four months or so.

That being said, I'm 55% sure some islamicist site will now report: "Western scientist says that islamic population growing by 0.2 billion every four months! Allahu akbar!"

Let them quote this also: Allah knows least.

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at May 25, 2005 6:25 PM

Here's how I like to look at it:

Let's just suppose that Islam is truly God's religion for one moment. He tells his people to kill and destroy those who don't believe in his religion and when we're all dead, we'll be judged and they go to paradise and the unbelievers (everybody else) goes to hell and eternal damnation.

If I go to heaven and this paradise, I'll be surrounded by a bunch of people who lived and bred hatred during their earthly existence, treated their women unfairly, defiled all other religions, cheered when innocents were killed in their 'jihad' and gave nothing to the earth's inhabitants other than pain, torture, and grief.

If that is truly the nature of God, then I want nothing to do with him or his name-calling people.

When I hear stuff like this and read the news and see for myself what's going on, I know for certain I'm on the right side.

Posted by: illustr8rg8r at May 25, 2005 6:33 PM

so much for the tongue in cheek. and i thought it was the muslims who had no sense of humor. i dont know how any red blooded american could read the koran and take it seriously, but the muslims do and thats scary.

Posted by: dms at May 25, 2005 7:02 PM

Geez, no takers on the Mt. Carmel mexican standoff? ~ f.g.

That is a great idea, f.g.

I also think the showdown in Rev 11:13 will be a good one to watch!

Posted by: Bar at May 25, 2005 7:03 PM

I have been a silent regular here. Even though I believe I know well where most of the people here come down from and how the mentality here is irretrievably preformed, I have still chosen to wait in a hope that at least one shall appear showing an offset view, for my deepest belief is: one should never be judgmental nor should they generalize. It is my understanding that the goal everyone here is trying to accomplish is prevent and anticipate an inevitable danger Islam-Extremism represents to world peace, which absolutely as a concept, delivers no message contradicting with any of my personal beliefs. However, I have failed to see how the writings here represent any form of a peace-making call, for it has quite the contrary, reflected deeply-rooted and well-cultivated venom of hatred for any followers to one religion. It is just utterly odd to believe, one with such a mentality could try to proclaim any good intentions or beliefs. How could you fight evil with evil? And how could a religion, where a son of god scarified himself for the salvation of mankind, be the summoning scream for the abolishment of an entire religion and vengeance against all its followers, as a payback for what a group of followers of that religion do in its name? Anyways, as far as I’m concerned, I have answers to these questions, and for certain reasons, I would not like to state them here. But l would like to say in a few words, the very questions played an effective, though partial, role in my conversion to Islam. Yes, I’m a young man, who has been blessed with the gift of following that very religion everyone is unfortunately gathered here to demobilize. And even though I know what happens here represents nothing but a minority that will never evolve, nor will it ever have the capability of extending its arms and hurting Islam. I believe what happens here is just like what the evil Osama tries to spread, this attitude is not any different than his.

Robert and every fan here claim full knowledge of Islam, while even Muslims including IMAMS are not allowed to do so in our religion. Did it ever occur to any idiot here, that knowledge does not signify credibility? Yes, I do believe a lot of people here know a lot about Islam, it’s the aim of that knowledge that matters to me, and it is the same factor which gives no credibility to all the accusations listed against Islam. When you learn about something with the motivation of criticizing it, you could always place certain “ayas” or hadeeths, said on certain occasions, just trying to prove your point against Islam, which makes you biased, selective and at the end of the day, you have no credibility what so ever. And believe it or not, I know enough about Christianity, I swear enough to strip it down like you can’t imagine. But that makes me just like one of you, and I don’t want to fight evil with evil, and trust me, if you really want me to go for it, I could start right now, I just simply condemn that action. I’m Muslim and I still have my friends, with all their respect towards me that I had when I was Christian, and I still respect them the same, I do wish they would convert. I just hope you don’t even classify this as evil too. That wish comes from my caring about them, in my head, my way is true, their way is not, which is what you hold against Islam, but you ignore that this shouldn’t stop any Muslim from respecting any other person with a different religion, just like that thought a Muslim has of spreading his religion shouldn’t affect how his friends feel about him. What’s harmful about wishing everyone would become Muslim? It came from a good intention, because I’m thinking about their good. So as long as it doesn’t affect me respecting them for who they are and not trying in anyways to show any disrespect to their religions, it’s none of anyone’s business what I believe, right? When it does affect anyone’s attitude, you can only blame him for that, not his religion??? You consider Islam a wrong belief don’t you? I mean, not only the redneck-Americans, I’m talking about even Americans who are Christians and don’t hate Muslims, they think it’s a wrong belief, and they would be more than pleased if we all converted to Islam, and that is not a bad thing, I hope we got this particular point clear. The infidel thing comes from that. It just makes me laugh whenever I see someone complaining about calling other religions followers “infidels”. Aren’t we infidels in Christianity and Judaism? And please don’t try to lie and say you don’t consider us infidels, we have not believed in your god, so we do not believe in the true message (according to you), and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! And be rational and don’t start listing me what bin ladden said in his tapes, or how Muslims in certain countries celebrated the death of Americans as examples we could base our debate on, because you can’t fight the root of a religion by what some followers do, I could base my grounds against what that English guy did when he started his own church that called for fighting “niggers” and Jews, I could talk about the KKK, Hitler, or hey! I could just talk about you. We’re talking about what you’re criticizing, what I’m defending – the roots of Islam as an evil religion.

Extremism, I believe, is what you’ll hit me with first, and I would not believe any Hadeeth could be any clearer than this “Be aware of Extremism in religion, for Extremism in religion was what destroyed Ommas (nations) before you”. Could this get any clearer? And it is really happening now; extremists are only destroying innocent souls, and themselves. What else do you want the prophet to say? What else could he do? He set the rules, and people didn’t follow them, fight the killers, not the religion! Another Hadeeth was when the incident of Khaled bin waleed killing of some prisoners took place, when Mohammed found out, he left his arms up to the skies and said “O’ Allah, I am innocent from what Khaled did, O’ Allah, be my witness”. How else can his condemnation be represented as a prophet? I really don’t know what else you want us to do; we have condemned those acts whenever they occurred, and we are trying to fight them. They’re just too strong, that even US arms stand helpless against them. You expect those poor Arab Muslims to be capable of defeating them? And still, they do fight them, in Iraq, in other countries; Arab countries have jails filled with them.

I believe the second thing would be the idiocy of Dhimmittude. And let me guess, complaints are going to be about “Jizya” and how Christians and Jews were in a less level than Muslims. Well, as a start, I want to get one thing clear, none of you here has anything against tax generally, do you? You pay them anyways, so I believe you don’t. During the Muslim Empire days, Muslims used to pay an annual “Atawa, Zakaat”, I bet you know what I’m talking about, it’s even calculated and known, 2.5% of your yearly savings, and you want to call these taxes? Ok then, those were taxes, difference is, those taxes went for the poor, taxes nowadays go to governments. Man, how evil! Now, as Christians and Jews were a part f the Muslim society, they had to pay those “taxes”, and come on, you can’t deny even that little right on Muslims, they lived in Muslim lands for god’s sake, and those were the rules! You want Muslims to pay and other people not to? How could that be fair? Christians and Jews paid exactly the same amount of money Muslims paid, when Muslims didn’t pay the tax they were fought for it. And there’s a famous war against the Muslims who didn’t “Reddah”, why wouldn’t they ask Christians and Jews to pay them too? They paid those taxes, in order to have the same rights Muslims have FOR PAYING that money for the poor, lol, how evil could Islam get huh? Sill, when Muslims fought wars, Christians and Jews never had to, because they were Dhimmies, and the loss of any Dhimmi soul, is something the Khaliffa (Ruler of the Muslim State) would be asked about in the Day of Judgment, he is responsible for them, because they are under his “dhimma”. When a Muslim couldn’t afford to pay the Zakat, because he had no annual savings, he was a person who deserved the Otawa money, for he was considered poor, just like when a Christian or a Jew couldn’t afford to pay Jizya because he had no savings, the Otawa money went to him, for he’s considered poor too. How does that put them down in a lower level of citizenship? They had the same rights any Muslim had, and they lived with us for years and years with no complaints and a lot of them have eventually converted.

Anyways, I just said what I had to say, I leave judgment for you, since that’s the only thing you’re good at. An advice to all Muslims: read what they have to say, just in order to know how clear it is that the only purpose of it is fighting Islam, not that it has any bases of truth. Still, those retards represent only themselves, not all Christians, not the entire American nation. I believe they could in some way represent their government acts.

Posted by: sworn at May 25, 2005 7:08 PM

I recall that bad star trek movie where Kirk asks "Why does God need a starship?"

Another argument to put the whammy on guys like this turkey who sent this 'repent dirty jew' letter...

In Islam it is taught that all good things come from Allah and all bad from either Shaitan or man himself. If this is to be believed then why are so many good things in the west and so much bad (so little good) in the Muslim world?

If those nations that cling closest to Islam and Shari'a are closer to God than those in the west who ignore Islam and Shari'a then why doesnt God reward their efforts to remain true? Why does it seem that those most ignore Islam do the best?

This is the core of internal mental conflict of muslims. The belief that Islam is the perfect, all encompasing system for every sort of human endevor and the evidence that Islam is the worst operating system for every human endevor. Its a wonder all 1.2 billion muslims arent suffering from split personality.

Posted by: Boogey_Man at May 25, 2005 7:18 PM

Dear Sworn,

Feel free to ramble on as long as you would like. I'm quite certain we could play the "who has the most accurate historical experts" game all night long, and still would have reached no definitive asnwer.

So let's make this easy; simply answer a few questions:

Do you believe that it is inevitable that islam will rule the world, displacing such annoyances as the Constitution and equality before the law?

Do you actually believe it is proper--in an 'enlightlened'islamic country--to forbid Christians, Jews, Hindus, et al to worship as they please and to build their own houses of worship, and to proselytize?

Do you believe muslim apostates deserve death, or that adulterers should be stoned?

Heck, do you long for the worldwide implementation of sha'ria?

If these are sentiments you agree with, we need not waste time in debate, for you are my enemy, plain and simple. I have no idea how it's going to go for Europe, but I have every confidence that the US will never be islamic.

Posted by: Doug at May 25, 2005 7:29 PM

Mr. Spencer
just REMEMBER

The 2nd mendment
American's Original Homeland Security!!!

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/zarq052505b.asp
The Status of Al Zarqawi – Clues to His Status in the Battle of Uhud?
I THINK THEY GOT IT WRONG HIS PEOPLE ARE LEAVING AND NOT WILLING TO DIE FOR HIM AND SEE THE CURSE YES THE YELLOW CURSE THESE MONSTERS HAVE BROUGHT???

Cow, verse 140
OR do you claim that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their off spring were Jews and Christians say:” have you more knowledge than god?” who is wicked then he who conceals the testimony he received from god? God is not unaware of all you do.

OH but What is the truth??

More and More I believe!!
Genesis Chapter 16
9] and the angle of the LORD said to her “ Go back to your mistress, and submit to her harsh treatment” 10] and the angle of the LORD said to her “I will greatly increase your offspring/ and they shall be too many to count” 11] the angle of the LORD said to her further,” behold you are with child/ and shall bear a son;/ you shall call him Ishmael./ For the LORD has paid head to your suffering./ 12] he shall be a wild ass of a man;/ his hand against everyone,/ and everyone’s hand against him;/ he shall dwell alongside of all his kinsmen” 13] and she called the LORD who spoke to her, “ you are EL-roi” by which she meant. “Have I not gone on seeing after he saw me!” 14] Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; it is between Kadesh and Bered.-

YES AN WILD ASS OF A MAN WHO IS AGAINST EVERYONE????

THE FAT BOY IS NOT TALKING ABOUT HIM SELF HE IS TALKING ABOUT ubl[yellow coward who runs away] THE FAT BOY IS LOOSING HIS LEADER TO THE YELLOW CURSE ?? WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK IT IS NO IT WAS NOT RECIVED ON THE BATTLE FIELD BUT THE YELLOW CURSE!!!!

OH I BELIEVE THE WILD ASS OF A MAN HIS HAND AGAINST EVERY ONE!!!

THE FAT BOYS FOLLOWERS DO NOT WANT TO DIE FOR HIM LOOK AT HOW THEY SURRENDER!!! WHAT WAS IT YESTERDAY 366??

SO WE KNOW THEY WORSHIP ISMEAL

I LIKE THIS OUT OF TH qu-ran!!!

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says

He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

Yes he has chosen the USA!!

TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]

And let’s look at another part?

The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,
Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?

There will be no more warnings?

Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??

And now Locus in Egypt

NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??

Kazakhstan Blast in mine??

Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??

Earthquake in Algeria??

The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.

YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??
What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??

The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??

Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/

Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??

We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??
And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??

January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??

Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??

January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??

AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs
Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.

NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??

I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??

Qur’an 8:71 “If they try to deceive you,
remember they have deceived Allah before.”

It is not America who is the Deceiver but the Islamic Terrorist Look at what God has done to his Followers Look at Bam, Indoneias, Iraq [NOW HA RUNNING WATER IN HOMES FOR THE FRIST TIME IN HISTORY THANKS TO THE USA NOT sader], Africa [MULSUMS KILLING MULSUMS] no these Islamic terrorist are the deceivers!!!

Qur’an 8:49 “When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘The religion has deceived and misled them.’”

I think this fits for the Islamic terrorist who make war on the people look what ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] saddam[FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD] has brought to the people sader[YELLOW COWARD WHO KILLS MEN IN THEIR HOLY MOSQUE] all have brought death and destruction to the people not life and joy no these who follow the lies like out of newsweek aljerreza will all head for death and the yellow cuse!!

LOOK AT WHAT THESE HYPOCRATES HAVE BROUGHT TO THE FOLLOWERS A YELLOW CURSE!!

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Polio is spreading in Yemen is this not where the monster ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY]he now brings plagues on the people he has brought the wrath of God on mulsums because of their killing and hate? When will the mulsum world see this curse on their heads for following these monsters??

When God lead the Children of Israel out of Egypt out of Bondage from slavery Egypt felt that wrath now because they follow the hate again we see in mulsum lands FLOODS, EARTHQUAKES, LOCUS, SICKNESS how much will they have to suffer because they are following MONSTERS down the wrong path to want the death of Jews and Christians and others??

IS ANYONE REALY SURPRISED?? If you know about the Torah or the Bible then you would understand they worship Ishmael and what it says about him will be an ass of a man his hand against every one!!

The Arabians were for centuries governed by the descendants of Joktan, who peopled the south-west of Arabia. Yarab one of the sons of Joktan founded the kingdom of Yaman, in which was also the kingdom of Sheba, whose Queen afterwards visited King Solomon. The Kingdom of Yaman was the most powerful state of all Arabia. [NOW

THERE IS A plagues on the children who is from there? ubl [YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY]
Jorahan another son of Joktan founded the kingdom of Hedjaz which became the thereafter became the most import in all Arabia for its possession of the holy places of Mecca and Medina, and is called the holy land of Arabia
The Arabs originally acknowledged the Existence of one Supreme God, Creator of the Universe, whom they called allah taala, the most high god.
Their religion soon lost its earliest monotheism, and degenerated into gross idolatry, fetichism, animal worship and star worship. They frist of all adopted Sabeanism or worship of the hosts of heaven.
It is said that the ancient Arabs had 7 celebrated temples decated to the 7 plantes. Very soon, however, the star worship became greatly corrupted and other deities, superstitious and idolatrous practices were introduced.
From their pagan neighbors they adopted the doctrine of the abodes or haunts of gods: marked them out as sacred territories by pillars, and within which bloodshed, cutting of trees, and killing game was forbidden, and within such enclosures the blood of sacrifices was smeared on sacred stones, and gifts were hung up on trees. This is the origin of the Haramain or sacred territory around Mecca and Medina. Everywhere in Arabia there were wells, pillars, and heaps of stones, where the Arab devotees congregated to obtain special blessings. Sacrifices were common, but not by fire. The blood of the sacrifices was smeared over the rude stone altars, and the flesh was eaten by the worshipers.
They also worshiped idols, ten of whom are mentioned by name in the qu-ran.
Al Uzza identified with planet Venus, and worshiped at times under the form of an acacia tree: and Manat a huge stone worshiped as an altar by several tribes. The Arabs also worshiped angels, whom they called female gods and the daughters of god. They imagined that these images of angles were animated by them and were intercessors with god for man. The most celebrated and central object of arab worship however was the blackstone of Mecca set in the corner of a square building called the Kaaba, in which also are placed the images of Abraham and Ismael each carrying in their hands divine arrows.

SO WHEN THE GO AROUND AND AROUND THEY WORSHIP ISMAEL KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT HIM??

Further they say that Mecca stands on the spot exactly beneath God’s throne in heaven. The present Kaaba they say was built by Abraham and his son Ismael and the black stone which had been missing, was shewn to Ismael by the angel Gabriel, and it was used as a corner stone for the building of the kaaba.
The Jews who had fled in great numbers into Arabia from the fearful destruction of their country by the Romans, had introduced Jewish religion among several of the tribes. Christianity like wise had made great progress among this nation before the birth of Mo-Ham-Od
The multiplicity and variety of so many religions and religious ideas and practices not infrequently conflicting with one another had already produced in the minds of these people necessity of finding a religion that would be re-conciliatory, and that could be adaped to the nature of people and thus the path was layed open to the new religion called Hanifs, which was introduced just before the birth of Mo-Ham-Od. These Hanifs were a small number of Arabs, who worshiped only allah, rejecting polytheism, and sought FREEDOM from sin and resignation to Gods will. Thus was we see Hanifism was only a step to islam, and such was the state of religion in Arabia before the time of Mo-Ham-Od.
OF COURSE THEN HE BROUGHT RAPE KILLING STEALING AND LETS NOT FORGET LIEING ALL FOR HIS CAUSE??? SAD SAD!! Most muslims have taken what was before which was good and get it mixed up with Mo-Ham-Ods stuff???

Some by me and the rest by Rev.J.L.Menezes written in 1912??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY[FREEDOM] TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND AND FIGHT THESE MONSTERS AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at May 25, 2005 7:41 PM

Sworn
I don’t have a problem with someone choosing Mohammadanism, but you should get some thicker skin when you make that conversion. I don’t understand why these comments get under your skin, they are just comments, not airplanes with unarmed civilians aboard and they are not buildings full of unarmed civilians. Our comments surely are a lot less harmful then the thousands of good Moslems that fight in the cause of allah, apparently because he hasn’t yet awakened from his perpetual stupor.

P.S, we are armed with knowledge and from past experience allah prefers to ambush unarmed civilians, so proceed with cation.

Posted by: Bar at May 25, 2005 7:42 PM

dear sworn, please stop trying to convert everyone to your ideology. this is america, it wont work here. to quote a line from last of the mohicans, "i would rather make the gravest of mistakes than surrender my judgement to another" or something like that. in america, we still have the right to choose every aspect of our lives and thats the way we want it. people of other faiths feel the same way about their religous beliefs that you do about yours. leave them alone and they will do the same.

Posted by: dms at May 25, 2005 7:50 PM

dear doug,

answers to your question came very clear in my previous message, you just couldnt see them:

I’m Muslim and I still have my friends, with all their respect towards me that I had when I was Christian, and I still respect them the same, I do wish they would convert. I just hope you don’t even classify this as evil too. That wish comes from my caring about them, in my head, my way is true, their way is not, which is what you hold against Islam, but you ignore that this shouldn’t stop any Muslim from respecting any other person with a different religion, just like that thought a Muslim has of spreading his religion shouldn’t affect how his friends feel about him. What’s harmful about wishing everyone would become Muslim? It came from a good intention, because I’m thinking about their good. So as long as it doesn’t affect me respecting them for who they are and not trying in anyways to show any disrespect to their religions, it’s none of anyone’s business what I believe, right?

Posted by: sworn at May 25, 2005 8:02 PM

sworn, Here is some good reading...

http://jihadwatch.org/books/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 25, 2005 8:08 PM

I don't know about the Holy Land but there were giants spotted at the Polo Gounds as late as 1957.

Posted by: Miss Moneypenney at May 25, 2005 8:25 PM

yes carolyn2, thanx for the recommended books, i'll make sure i read them someday. i would say comments here would tell me enough what i might find in those books, it still wouldn't harm to read them.

Posted by: sworn at May 25, 2005 8:27 PM

Sill, when Muslims fought wars, Christians and Jews never had to, because they were Dhimmies, and the loss of any Dhimmi soul, is something the Khaliffa (Ruler of the Muslim State) would be asked about in the Day of Judgment, he is responsible for them, because they are under his “dhimma”. By scorn

So Christians and Jews are not permitted to be in the military? Also, I suppose that people in these non muslim groups are not allowed to carry firearms either. That’ll go over big in the US. ROTF

Posted by: Cross at May 25, 2005 8:29 PM

Sworn,

I am with you in that I've been a silent observer on this site for awhile before speaking out, but that's about where we end our agreements. No problem, though. In America we're free to have our opinions, debate them, have our points made, listen to other views, learn, grow, and possibly see things in a new light. I respect you views and that you have them as well as your having the right to express them.

I believe the overall aim of this site is to create awareness of the threat to the west through the Islamist extremists and to know who our enemies are, rather than sitting back and wondering who these people are who are hijacking our planes and flying them into our buildings. The postings, though extreme themselves at times, are the views of individuals and, as I afforded you your right to speak them, so should we afford them their rights and not resort to calling anyone 'retards' for having a view. Name-calling brings the debates low, and you're likely to bring a lot of ire from people for doing so. If so, it's your own fault, you should be very aware of. In my mind, the real retards are those who don't acknowledge there are problems in the world that focuses on religious (and political) fanatics and are merely being led around by the nose.

You say that you fail to see 'how the writings here represent any form of a peace-making call' and I'd have to respond by asking if any peace could ever be made between Islam and the west. This idea of ruling the west and making the entire world dominated by Islamic rule has been around ever since the inception of your religion, so unless there was reformation in the religion to accept other religions for what they are and stop being respectful of them, I can't see it happening anytime soon.

Sure, you as a solitary human being may have complete respect for others and their religious beliefs, but those who have the voices in your religion do not. In fact, this was just reported from the 13th of this month and it certainly doesn't sound peaceful. In fact, I'd have to say it sounds much worse than anything anyone could conjure on this site, and a hundred times more ignorant. Jews are a virus resembling AIDS. That's a very nice, peaceful quote, isn't it?

And yet these are the people who are leading the 'peace process'.

Osama Bin Laden and al-Zarquari have been vocal, have been heard, and they are surely not looking for peace, so guess who gets all of the attention? You guessed it: the face of Islam has a mouthpiece that has become these two and they spew death and hatred.

When they do these things that you consider evil acts, where are all of the Muslims who reject their actions? Where is the peaceful Islam? There was a march in Washington to promote peace and reject terrorism recently, but it turned out to be a joke -hardly anybody showed up! I'd feel a whole lot better about things if we actually had Muslims who stood up and claimed that these individuals are acting out of their own accord and there were voices in the Middle East who echoed those words and then practiced them in action. If the people would gather up those who spoke out on behalf of Islam incorrectly and brought them to justice rather than hiding them, celebrating their actions, and looking at them as if they're noble warriors rather than the cowards they are, I'd have a world of respect for them.

You have stated that you are a young man, and so you have the entire world before you. I kindly suggest you spread a peaceful word and follow those words up with actions that promote peace and have your fellow Muslims do the same. While you're at it, keep your mind and eyes open and know that you're never too old to learn something new.

Posted by: illustr8rg8r at May 25, 2005 8:36 PM

Dear Sworn,

You say above: "Robert and every fan here claim full knowledge of Islam..."

You know what really gets under my skin? When people say I have said things I have never said. Of course, it happens all the time. You have joined an illustrious fraternity.

Please quote any book or article or blog post in which I said I had full knowledge of Islam.

Happy hunting.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at May 25, 2005 8:38 PM

From the column: Do you know that the religion of Adam, Noah, Moses and Jesus was Islam. the almighty is forgiving, you still have time to repent and stop helping the cause of satan a instead of helpin the true religion of god to conquer the universe and if you do not cease HELL is your abode. you dirty zionist pagan

If this imbecile is referring to Islam as being the "true religion of God", why did it come along so late in the game?

And, why would God need help conquering what he created? Looks like someone has guzzled just a wee bit too much of Grandpa's old cough medicine...

Posted by: DCWatson at May 25, 2005 8:46 PM

Since 'sworn' cannot, or will not, answer the four simple questions posed by 'Doug', I'll just have to think of 'sworn' as another Johnny Taliban: A convert searching for the peace in islam, but all too willing to do the killing of the mad mullahs.

'Doug', to me, the lack of answers from 'sworn' prove him to be the enemy, plain and simple. Got that, 'sworn'? The ENEMY. 'sworn', my freedom is more important and valuable than your submissive belief system will ever be. islam has already attacked my city one deadly time. The next time I will not take the time to learn about your nefarious ideology, to be so polite. Never, ever forget that.

Posted by: Rick at May 25, 2005 9:07 PM

sworn said he/she is a "revert" from Christianity. Almost all of the muslims we have ever dealt with here at JW claim they were once Christians. It is some kind of uniform MO that muslims like to claim. You know, they found the straight and narrow path after believing erroneously in Jesus. I don't believe it for a minute. Anyone who would convert to islam could not have known Jesus as Saviour, no way in the world. To go from forgiveness to murder and mutilation just doesn't wash.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 25, 2005 9:13 PM

sworn may live in the united states but some of his words lead me to believe he wasnt born here and i am dubious as to his being a convert from christianity.

Posted by: dms at May 25, 2005 9:23 PM

Sworn,

I do wish Muslims would convert to other religion. I just hope you don’t even classify this as evil too. That wish comes from my caring about Muslims, in my head, my way is true, Muslim's way is not, which is what you hold against other religions, but you ignore that this shouldn’t stop any non-Muslim from respecting any other person with a different religion, just like that thought a non-Muslim has of spreading his religion shouldn’t affect how his friends feel about him. What’s harmful about wishing everyone would become non-Muslim? It came from a VERY good intention, because I’m thinking about Muslim's good.

Posted by: buddha at May 25, 2005 9:32 PM

Forgive a stupid question - but didnt Islam come about 500 years after Jesus? How then, could Adam (!), Noah and Moses possibly be Muslims? He doesnt mention Eve - she wore a burkha in the Garden of Eden, I assume. This is so off the air that I suspect this guy is mentally ill.

Has this fool ever actually read the history of Islam - how it was forced onto people at the point of a sword? Well, duh, idiot - that must mean that the forced converts were not Muslims in the first place...

As for once being a Christian - no Christian could possibly show such a high level of ignorance about his own religion.

I get the impression that the late arrival of Islam on the world scene bugs many Muslims to the point where they have to invent lies and make wild assertions that a 12 year old could see through.

Islam itself has done so little for humanity that Muslims feel they have to claim every invention for their own - as well as having the True God, of course. As more people in the West recognise the truth, the mask slips even more.

Posted by: DianaC at May 25, 2005 9:38 PM

illustr8g8r,

Trust me, i know how things are , and i've seen both pictures. matter of fact, not only i'm a convert, i'm a "pure european" one. so believe me when i tell you, i've seen both faces of the conflict. you people keep saying "here in the US". i've been to the US, and i've been to arab countries too. and for sometime, when i was fresh to the religion, i though that arabs were actually a discrase to the religion. mohammed didn't come for arabs, though he was one. the way they arabs are acting as hosts for the religion gives it that ugly face. i could quite understand that. you would understand thier point of view if you visited their lands, and saw how you (americans) act there.

as i stated in my previous message, the threat is there. but honestly, what i see ugly is american acts help those devious terrorists gain more fans. i don't generalize on all americans though, i've met alot of good ones. i must say i was EXTREMELY shocked when i first visited this site.you say there's a conflict between the west and ISlam? that's quite funny. where does that put me then?

let me put this in a very simple way: say, i'm an arab, watchling Aljazeera channel 24/7, with the impression all americans (not christians) are carrying guns looking for an arab or a muslim to kill, later on, i see those pictures of abu Ghareeb. a freak with a big beared shows up on TV on video tapes telling people how in islam you shall kill back who kills you, quoting Ayas from quran, just like people here do. then he says you shall fight for the muslim pride, bla bla bla. now in my head, i already am SURE americans are just out there to kill muslims, i already have alot of hate sotred in for them. this freak shows up on TV promising a dignified death, killing enemies in "the name of Allah" instead of getting run over by an american tanck. i'm sorry man, but with the very few options i have, i would definitely go for ben ladden. now, just a little addition, my dad could be someone that was actually accidently killed by an american, or my husband could be someone that just got out of abou ghareeb. would i feel sorry whenever i hear about casualities or death in the american lines? nah, even if i don't agree to revenge, even if i hate seeing people die. i could be even telling people that i hate what's happening, while a part of me is a little happy for the death of americans.

god forbid i'm trying to say this is a right attitude, but just like you people have anger, you shall try to understand where their anger comes from.it's merely unreligious, matter of fact is, i think they're so far away from islam's teachings if they believe in suicidal bombings. another thing is, alot of them don't believe in suicidal bombings at all!

Jihad is a very big concept, if the american army was some muslim army trying to fight terrorists in a muslim land, that would be jihad too, would Jihad be a bad thing then? unfortunately, muslims underestimated those terrorists, and let them grow in their arab lands.

further, i do reject every attemp of innoceance by you people, when it comes to funding those terrorist groups when they first started. it did not matter to your government at all who would've died, as long as they fought on ur side back then. now, that they're grown so big, it's all our fault, how could we let them grow for all this time? well, i'll ask you something else, what would have happened to any muslim back then if he tried to fight those terrorists on the communist's side? good question isn't it?

we could keep accusing each other our whole lives, it wouldn't get us anywhere, what matters is, as you said, knowing the enemy, not just NAMING HIM???? what happens here is accuse Islam of being an enemy to humanity. if that's gonna keep going too, trust me, there would be no way "the west" would get any respect from muslims too. unless they know the west is on their side, not only drilling oil from their countries, it'd be really hard to face the bigger enemy, the terrorists. i know this might disapoint you, i am NOT against Jihad in any ways, i am only against killing innocent people, i am against suicidal bombing, i am against fighting outside the invaded lands, and i am definitely against targetting people randomly and starting war secretly, without it being issued. before you start fighting Jihad, plz know what it is. have you ever heared of Jihad of the soul? is fighing armed forces invading my country terrorism? unless you prove yourselves to be friendly forces, trust me, that's not terrorisim man, that's Rebellion act, that's justified not only in islam, it is also justified by the UN , the difference is, it's called Jihadd (too) in islam.

Posted by: sworn at May 25, 2005 9:41 PM

sworn,

stop your taqiya, oh "pure european" one. we non-muslims know now that Muslims are allowed to lie for the sake of their religion.

Jihad started when Muslims decimated the pagans and went on waging war against Jews, Christians, Zorasthrians, Buddhists, Hindus etc etc. If your way was the right way, why Allah's followers kill millions of innocent people?

West does not need any respect from Muslims...we are not little whinning babies like you guys are.

Posted by: buddha at May 25, 2005 10:22 PM

sworn, I have but one word for you to ponder: yatrib.

Posted by: Lisa at May 25, 2005 10:56 PM

Sworn-

Before you go off half-cocked about what this site is up to, do a search in the archives for a day or so.

Everything you accuse the people here of has been answered five hundred times already.

All of your rhetorical questions have been answered a thousand times already.

Seek and ye shall find. Click and it shall be opened unto you.

Why you think anyone should take you seriously after you insult them ("retards") shows a lack of understanding of human nature.

And your laziness in not doing any study of what has been going on here for a LONG time, and what questions have already been debated MANY TIMES, betrays a smug dilletante.

The Koran, should you ever choose to read it cover to cover, will reveal itself to you as a mish-mash of plagiarized Bible quotes -twisted unconscionably into the opposite of their original meanings, a mass of Mohammad's shameless revenge fantasies against anyone who wouldn't bow to him, a 'God' as vile and cruel as the worst of the Old Testament's ('pre-Abraham-sacrificing-Isaac') blood-thirsty Yaweh, and then you can proceed to the Hadiths -which will unveil a henna-haired pedophile who gives instructions on how to fondle women when they are menstruating, 'scientific' ideas about the stars are 'missiles to hit devils with', and whose heads to chop off to please the murderous nature of his warlord 'Deity' "Al-lah".

It isn't a pretty picture.

Why you would want to ally yourself to a 'faith' that is a GIANT step backward from the enlightenment and peacefulness and poetry and compassion of a Christ is curious. (I'm not a 'Christian', myself, and even I can see the intellectual and moral surperiority of Jesus over this pedophile 'prophet' Mohammad, and his hate-filled claims about the incredibly petty mind of his 'God'.)

Do a little comparitive reading.

"The Book of the Tao". ""The Tripitaka of the Buddha". "The Yoga-sutras of Patanjali". "The Sermon on the Mount". And even something like "The Book: on the taboo of knowing who you are".

Meanwhile-

Self-defense against a global theocratic tyranny is not "hate".

Knowing your mortal enemies' sworn [sic?] intentions is not "hate".

Educating yourself about the core beliefs of those trying to kill and enslave you isn't "hate".

Know thyself, as Socrates said.

Otherwise you may be spitting in the mirror without realizing it.

Posted by: BigSleep at May 26, 2005 12:23 AM

Alas another sad poser who doesn't undestand that "the best of people" intend to reward him with the same currency they are now handling out to the black muslims of Dafur. islam is the stalking horse of arab imperialism, and no dirty non-arab can ever be a "true" muslim.

Too bad.

Posted by: Joseph of Carpentry at May 26, 2005 12:49 AM

Sworn

"Trust me, i know how things are , and i've seen both pictures."

As do I.

"when i was fresh to the religion, i though that arabs were actually a discrase to the religion...the way they arabs are acting as hosts for the religion gives it that ugly face."

Is this a racist comment or not? Please explain. Why do non-Arab muslim posters here despise Arabs so much?

The conflict between islam and the West is not one of Western choosing, as you must clearly see. Islam has behaved in the same way towards the West for a long, long time - hostility, invasion, disgust, hatred. So, you must of course choose your own way. Muslims in the Middle East are taught to hate other religions and other cultures very much without any input of ours, so it is hardly our fault that shrieking imams on PA TV condemn all Jews, or all Christians, to say nothing of "people not of the book".

"but just like you people have anger, you shall try to understand where their anger comes from."

And they shall understand where ours comes from - 1300 years of horror. The affairs of the present day, repulsive as they are, are a minor note at best in islamic attitudes toward the rest of the world. I note, for example, that as a long-time lurker here, you never wrote in to condemn the attitudes of either Shirki or Brownfinger, despite their support of paedophilia and general racism, respectively. Your voice comes late, late indeed.

"if the american army was some muslim army trying to fight terrorists in a muslim land, that would be jihad too, would Jihad be a bad thing then?"

I personally have little interest aside from the basic humanitarian one in how muslims decide affairs amongst themselves. Jihad, endless jihad against my own society, civilization and people, however, is something I would resist strongly.

"what would have happened to any muslim back then if he tried to fight those terrorists on the communist's side? good question isn't it?"

If any terrorists fought on the communist side, then presumably islamicists would have fought against them. I'm having a little trouble following your posts through the incoherence. Then again, what if the US had not helped the Afghani people against the Soviet invaders? That is, perhaps, a better question altogether.

We don't seek to accuse, but merely to reveal. The history of islam as presented by the MSM (and of course, by muslims) is extraordinarily one-sided, a fact especially concealed by the works of the majority of it in a language we do not speak. Shirki likes to compare finding out about islam from non-islamic sources to finding out about black people from the KKK - but why are non-muslims so untrustworthy on this issue, in his mind? Is he representative of other muslims? By contrast, finding out about islam from an imam or mullah would be like asking the Secretary General of the Soviet Union about the Workers Paradise. I am a socialist, and not even I could refrain from laughing at such a source. Thus, we must base our opinions and interpretations on other sources, ones more neutral to the islamic worldview. I am sorry this offends you. There is really no way to otherwise divine it. And how exactly does the West presently get any 'respect' from islam? I've never seen it, less you consider mulching Bibles and calling Western women whores 'respect'.

It's refreshing actually that you admit you're not against jihad in any way - for then of course you would be a poor muslim - but what constitutes "innocent people"? Christians know. Jihadists apparently don't. And of course, where does jihad end? Sura 9 would seem to answer that - never. Islam also calls for complete domination of the world - so where are these "invaded lands"? Imams lay claim to the entire world, calling that which is to be conquered "Dar al-harb", the "world of war". Why do they do this, do you imagine? We have heard of the "Jihad of the soul": regrettably, Mohammed himself seems never to have heard of it, and said that those that went on the real jihad - war - were favoured by god.

Please, I would ask that you reconsider your views and really read about what is, and has, gone on in the name of this new religion of yours. If you cannot ask questions within it, nor interpret it save at the whim of your religious leaders, then it would seem indeed that the structure of islam is far more restrictive and far more dangerous than any faith has been in hundreds of years.

Peace,

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at May 26, 2005 1:43 AM

By the by, don't compare jizya (the tax forcibly paid by non-muslims in muslim countries, and which is extracted with the intent of "humiliation") with zakat (the tax paid by muslims in muslim countries, which was voluntary in most islamic nations until quite recently). Jizya, to say nothing of taxes levied on moved products, was twice that of zakat - which was, again, largely voluntary. Many Christians converted to islam in order to escape jizya, of which the failure to pay could result in jail, fines, or the enslavement of children and/or wives.

Apparently, if allah thinks this is a good system, allah really does know least.

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at May 26, 2005 1:49 AM

It's not necessary to be a full blown expert
on Islam to get the drift...all you have to have is a good sense of smell and you can trace the rot to it's source...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 26, 2005 1:56 AM

duh_swami-

A Russian proverb puts it:

"You only need only one mouthful to know the taste of the entire ocean."

Posted by: BigSleep at May 26, 2005 2:50 AM

Bigsleep - should that Russian proverb be revised from ocean to sh^% in this case?

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at May 26, 2005 4:06 AM

..answers to your question came very clear in my previous message, you just couldnt see them:.. ~ sworn

Hey, just like Mohammad’s prophecy’s, allegedly they are there you just cant see them.

Posted by: Bar at May 26, 2005 10:31 AM

Catherine,
the angle of the LORD
I’m can’t decide whether that would be a “right angle” or an “obtuse” one. I’m guessing obtuse.

Bar,
I also think the showdown in Rev 11:13 will be a good one to watch!
Don’t hold your breath for that one either. Geez man, in your test a lot of people die, in mine we’d only have a little cookout. Sheeesh. Peace and love, dude ... remember.

Why not give Jerry Falwell or Benny Hinn (well any Protestant would do), the Pope, a Rabbi, and a Mullah a brisket and a pit each. Let them do their thing and whoever gets their god to cook their brisket wins! In the unlikely event that fire rains down on more than one bar-b-que pit, audience applause will be gauged to determine the winner. So go for some flair! If for whatever reason, fire does not fall and consume or otherwise cook anyone's brisket, everyone has to agree to say 'sorry' and leave each other alone. To prevent everyone from going home hungry, science and reason would be used to locate a bic. Whoever wins gets the television rights and free bar-b-que sauce for life.

Wouldn’t that settle it once and for all? I mean … it’s like Biblical and all that. Kinda. Sounds like a Middle East Peace Plan that would certainly put an end to whole question of who is right in a bloodless manner. Well, except for the contributor of the brisket. If that's a problem a nice eggplant casserole could be substituted for the beef.

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at May 26, 2005 10:53 AM

How I think the '1 Kings 18:20-40 showdown' really happened: the priests of Baal went up to compete, then after they had revealed themselves they were seized by the people and slain by Elijah, who all agreed that the god of Israel had mightily shown his power in vanquishing Baal and his priests. The fire from heaven story was an embellishment.

Posted by: Great Omnipotent Tigger at May 26, 2005 2:25 PM

Oh Great Ominpotent Tigger,

No fire would fall today either. This type of showdown would never happen because all parties involved either 1. Don't have the balls. 2. Really don't believe in the first place. or 3. Will come up with several rationalizations as to why god doesn't do that sort of thing anymore.

Time to stop beating dead horses. Koran vs. Bible really isn't the question at all here. The question is can the Muslim world merge with the modern world where individuality and personal freedom supersedes religious doctrine.

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at May 26, 2005 2:49 PM

I think the angle of the LORD would be 180 deg or a perfectly straight line..

f.g
Cooking shows can get rather boring, don’t get me wrong I love good BarBQ but the violence of Rev 11:13 would make for much better entertainment, in my test the people are the brisket! Whoops...

Regarding 1 Kings, I am not of the opinion that because it doesn’t happen today, it didn’t happen then. I am of the opinion that it didn’t convince people then neither would it convince them today. I know, peace love, blah, blah, blah.. Some days the only thing between me and an angry driver in a 8,000 pound SUV is 1mm of orange soft plastic.

Posted by: Bar at May 26, 2005 8:24 PM