"After the arraignment, Anthony Ricco, one of Mr. Shah's two lawyers, said the arrest was typical of the government's efforts to cast suspicion on Muslims in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"He wouldn't be here if he wasn't a Muslim," Mr. Ricco told reporters outside the courthouse."

Yes I thinks it's terrible that our government casts suspicions on muslims, it wreaks of profiling. I think our government would be more successfull if it investigated "little old ladies in Pasadena".

Posted by: Mackie at June 1, 2005 9:58 AM

I'm a lawyer so I'm not shocked by the Jihadist's counsel's comments. However, we can safely ignore such blather and profile more. Let's not forget that evey act of terror conducted against the U.S. was committed by a muslim male between 18-50. We need to carefully vet each and every one of them and deport any who cause the slightest bit of trouble. Citizenship is a privilege which they do not deserve. Legal protections and rights are not a barrier to protecting ourselves within the law. The Patriot Act has worked well. Lets strengthen it!

Posted by: 5th Column Hunter at June 1, 2005 10:14 AM

5th Column Hunter:
As an attorney, take a close look at this link

http://voi.org/books/tcqp/

What do you think?

Posted by: a10billr at June 1, 2005 10:26 AM

billr
Where is "Chengiz Khan" when we really need him?

Posted by: pismopal at June 1, 2005 10:34 AM

Just did a quick scan. I'll read in depth later. Sounds interesting. No doubt the muslims know how to use the law to their advantage in free societies. What we need to do is be vigilant against them. We need more stings, more citizens providing tips and information on the terrorists in our midst. We need to root out the fundamentalists. There are law abiding muslims, not as many as President Bush thinks there are, but they do exist. I favor expanding ties with India as part of an anti-Jihad alliance. The Hindus know their enemy well.

Posted by: 5th Column Hunter at June 1, 2005 10:36 AM

We are not alone in this fight!!!

US: NINE ORGANISATIONS AND 14 INDIVIDUALS SEEKING ACCESS TO FBI FILES

Washington D.C., 1 June (AKI/DAWN) - Fourteen individuals and nine organizations, all represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, have filed requests under the US Freedom of Information Act, seeking access any investigative files the FBI may have on them. The ACLU also has filed a separate request for information on FBI investigations, particularly on Muslim individuals and organizations. Although most of the requests were filed in St Louis, ACLU affiliates and branches in Rhode Island, Idaho and Kentucky also have filed similar requests.

The complainants claim that the FBI is carrying out unwarranted investigations for religious or political reasons. Among others who filed the information requests are peace activist Bill Ramsey, peace activist and Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein and American Muslim magazine editor Sheila Musaji.

Organizations include those that were opposed to the Iraq invasion, a group which advocates workers’ rights and environmental issues, as well as the Council on American-Islamic relations.

The ACLU says a series of FBI inquiries across the country shows that the agency has sunk back into the kind of political monitoring it did in the 1960s and 1970s. The conduct of the FBI is ‘eerily Reminiscent’ of the days of J. Edgar Hoover, its controversial first director, said Denise Lieberman, legal director for the ACLU affiliate in St Louis.

She said the FBI was conducting investigations based on the groups’ political activities or their religious affiliations.

(DAWN/Aki)

01-Jun-05 12:06

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Trends&loid=8.0.173022572&par=0

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 1, 2005 10:41 AM

5thColumn,

Is it possible to get Islam banned as a seditious ideology on the grounds that it seeks to replace our constitution with the Qur'an, replace our free democratic society with a totalitarian islamic one, and its primary doctrines are terminally opposed to our free democratic pluralistic society?

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 10:52 AM

a10billr,

The Calcutta Quran Petition looks like a great piece of work.

5thColumn,

Can we use it in a 'Ban Islam as Sedition' petition?

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 10:54 AM

5th column hunter:

Assuming that the government informant didn't concoct the story, I guess one thing about lawyers making ridiculous statements in defence of clients such as Tarik Shah is the wealth of jokes it will spawn about lawyers.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 1, 2005 11:10 AM

The muslims have opened up another war front - Our Legal System.

This is a major jihad war front. In fact, they have created an organization which does nothing but do jihad on this front - CAIR.

The muslims are hauling people to court to intimidate and prevent people from exposing Islam. Or just showed up at their offices to intimidate them. They have been successful in shutting people up - movie studios, publishers, book vendors.

We need to check them on this front as well. A hotline people can call to report and get help against intimidation by these people. Put some big guns and plenty of ordnance here. Blow them into space for any infractions. Recently CAIR published a list of Anti-Muslim charges, many of which were bogus. We shouldn't let them get off on that. They made public statements in the media based on the bogus list and got their buzz. We should land on them like a ton of bricks and defuse them blow by blow.

America is the land of lawyers. This is our turf. We shouldn't let them beat us on our turf.

What do you think?

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 11:19 AM

A major policy announcement needs to be made
Something along the line that :” The administration upon further study has concluded Islam is a totalitarian political movement masquerading as a religion and its practice has been deemed sedition .As of today all mosques in the united states are closed .
All person who wish assistance in relocating outside the united states will be arrested shortly.
Those who do not wish to leave will be shot.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 1, 2005 11:58 AM

So.

A10BillR and 5th Column Hunter,

Is it Zimmi or Dhimmi?

You say potato, and I say potato. And Dan Quayle says potatoe.

I'm not a lawyer, but the Calcutta Quran Petition makes an interesting read.

As Skidd asks, can Islam be banned as seditious ideology in the U.S.

Probably not. But, if suit were brought, would not that religion's apologists and practitioners at least be forced into full and public disclosure of Islam's global intent.

Posted by: PRCS at June 1, 2005 12:08 PM

KAOSKTRL,

I think many muslims will be estatic to hear that they can drop their burden and be free people, like everyone else.

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 12:12 PM

PRCS,

The process of discovery itself in the hearings will be a WIN for exposing Islam.

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 12:15 PM

Israpundit has a recent interview with the Italian imam, Sheik Palazzi, who probably is a legitimate moderate, in response to the Koran flushing contraversy. Palazzi says that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood operation that I found very interesting. In case you missed it when it was posted here recently by another blogger: http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2005/05/an_israpundit_e.php

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 1, 2005 12:18 PM

waterdragon52, Thanks.

How is it that CAIR is still operating if such information is out in the open, and some of its executives have been convicted of terrorism charges as well.

Weird.

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 12:40 PM

To claim bias, whether its bigotry or just plain racism, is a ploy to use when the defense is weak. Islam uses it because Americans and other Westerners are accustomed to thinking of themselves as very tolerant and unbiased. (Ironically, come to think of it, some Muslims think of themselves in that way too!)

The chapter titles of the The Calcutta Quran Petition are interesting: ch. 3 - "Entire Quran is a Manual on JihAd;" ch. 8 - "Muslim Ummah is a Military Machine." What more needs to be said?

Posted by: epg at June 1, 2005 1:07 PM

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8715

Terrorism: Growing Wahhabi Influence in the United States
By Jon Kyl
FrontPageMagazine.com | July 3, 2003

Although the subject of Saudi-funded Wahhabi extremism and its ties to terrorism will be familiar to FrontPage Magazine readers, Capitol Hill is finally beginning to take notice. Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ, chaired hearings on "Terrorism: Growing Wahhabi Influence in the United States" last Thursday, June 26, before the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security. We reproduce the testimony of thee witnesses before that subcommittee: Alex Alexiev of the Center for Security Policy, Stephen Schwartz of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and Larry Mefford of the FBI's Counterterrorism Divsion. The committee also heard expert testimony from David Aufhauser, General Counsel for the U.S. Treasury Department. - The Editors.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 1, 2005 1:11 PM

skidd:

try willful ignorance on the part of the MSM. As for the government, we have to hope they are simply being covert about what they know so they can better pursue the SOBs.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 1, 2005 1:44 PM

Boca Islamic center to raise cash for doctor

By Larry Keller

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, June 01, 2005

FORT PIERCE — A west Boca Raton doctor remains in federal custody after making his first appearance in court Tuesday on a charge of conspiring to provide material support and resources to the terrorist network Al-Qaeda.

Dr. Rafiq Sabir, 50, must return to the federal courthouse here on Friday to tell U.S. Magistrate James Hopkins whether he has retained a lawyer. A spokesman for the Islamic Center of Boca Raton said his organization intends to raise money for Sabir's defense.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/local_news/epaper/2005/06/01/m1a_sabir_0601.html

seems that Boca has a real sick problem

Militant Islam Monitor > Articles > Assadiq Islamic Educational Center of Boca- Imam Qazwini says neo Nazi speaker 'will bridge gap between communities'
Assadiq Islamic Educational Center of Boca- Imam Qazwini says neo Nazi speaker 'will bridge gap between communities'

Boca Marriot hosts event where speakers deny Muslim involvement in 9/11
May 1, 2005
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/576

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 1, 2005 2:06 PM

waterdragon52, Meanwhile CAIR is shutting people up.

Grrrrrr...

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 3:20 PM

skidd:

which is why sites like JW are so important. The Muslim Brotherhood is still persona non grata to the US government. If Palazzi's claims are true about the close linkage, this needs to be raised with the right people. Otherwise, it's a very slow process waiting for CAIR to hang themselves.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 1, 2005 3:32 PM

waterdragon52, Perhaps Robert can shut them down.
Mr Spencer?

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 3:40 PM

waterdragon52, I think we need to counter them for now, every step they take.

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 3:43 PM

5th Column Hunter,

Sorry. I should have addressed you properly by your complete name.

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 3:47 PM

Mr. Shah, 42
SOMETHING LEFT OUT IS HIS RELATION TO MALCOM X???

MAYBE THIS IS WHY WE HAVE NOT SEEN HIS PICTURE???

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD STRENGTH TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at June 1, 2005 4:16 PM

5th Column Hunter:

I have read all of the Calcutta Quran Petition and it is in fact based on the premise that Islam is NOT a religion.

The case is carefully built and well documented. Development of the principal of abrogation and development of how Allah always seemed to have a virtually immediate solution to Muhammads latest dilemma.

In fact the petition calls Allah Muhammads home boy. I did like reading the petion very much, if for no other reson than to know others see the danger as we do.

The publicity from such a trial would knock the entire nation on its rear.

As far as India goes - they do in fact know all about Islam and the danger it presents. Not militant Islam, just Islam!

Posted by: a10billr at June 1, 2005 5:00 PM

"This anti-American stuff they're accusing him of is absurd... just dumb," McBride said. "He's a good Muslim."

Bin Ladens mother said that also. "He is a good Muslim"...

The Koran is quite clear as to who is a good Muslim:

'The one who leaves all behind to fight the Jihad'.

"Good Muslim" rings my alarm-bells.

But when I say 'execute them', or 'deport them' you call me a 'radical' or 'right-wing fanactic'.

I wonder what 'right-wing' has to do with public safety.

Posted by: Terminator at June 1, 2005 5:14 PM

a10billr, Think we can submit the Calcutta Petition in the States?

Posted by: skidd at June 1, 2005 5:51 PM

skidd:

I'm not sure who it should go to.
We should not publicse this document, but we should begin to search for a sponsor for a lawsuit.

Posted by: a10billr at June 1, 2005 7:22 PM

skidd, a10billr

One needs careful thought before one considers taking the koran to court as a seditious document. Though it is obvious to any right thinking person, that the koran is a fascist and seditious document, as well as a manual for the subjugation and plunder of civilised people, legal proceedings tend to take a path of their own, which may not be to our liking.

The reason I urge caution is that there are far too many pitfalls when going to court, even when a case is as open-and-shut, as this one. As we all know, common sense is not part of the judicial system,

Then the LLL MSM will, for the most part, be publicising the "immense hurt" that was being caused to "decent hardworking muslims" by a court case brought by "Right wing fanatics". In the merantime, muslims will play the victim role to the hilt. Then again, if for some political or other reasons, the case is dismissed, muslims will loudly proclaim that the koran has been vindicated by the courts. Some would even go so far as to say that allah defended the koran and changed the judge's mind and heart.

The koran will then have become a constitutionally valid religious book, which no other religious book will be able to claim; great dawa points. You and I may not see it that way, but that is how it will be proclaimed by muslims and their organisations.

I read about the Calcutta petition many years ago. As one sees from the case, the judiciary and the establishment were deadset against the petition. All manner of legalese was used to thwart it and in the end, the case came to nothing.

I think that what Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, and others are doing, is the best strategy in the current environment. Education of the people about islam, is best for the moment.

Anyway, that is how I see it. Would like to hear counter-arguments. Any realistic strategy that will remove the islamic scourge on humanity, is always worth a try.

Posted by: DP111 at June 1, 2005 8:29 PM

How about a law suit, by someone here in the U.S., who has actually been wronged not just by a Muslim, but by a Muslim who has either espoused relevant Quranic verses as the reason to commit the offense, or a Muslim who can be charged with simply following Quranic dictates, as the reason.

Would discussions of Islam's dark side be allowed in court?

Posted by: PRCS at June 1, 2005 8:48 PM

DP111:

There is risk in everything in life.
Have you actually read the Calcutta document?
Take a couple of hours and read the damn thing.

The arguments are clear, unambiguous, and irrefutable. I personally think it could win in court.

PRCS:
Read at least the first four chapters. Then let me know what the premis is. Personal injury is not what this is all about.

Posted by: a10billr at June 1, 2005 10:14 PM

Posted by: DP111 at June 1, 2005 08:29 PM

BUT WE HAD NO PROBLEM TAKEN CHARLES MANSON TO COURT AND HIS FOLLOWERS IN A WAY IF YOU READ THE QURAN IT LOOKS TO BE THE SAME??

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS TO GET A JUDGE TO READ IT AND THEN PROTECT THE JUDGE AND FAMILY THERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM??

WHO WOULD TAKE THE CASE??

http://voi.org/books/tcqp/chi3.htm

1. “Islam is understood more correctly when it is called Muhammadanism. Muhammad is the central figure in Islam. He controls the hearts and minds of all Muslims everywhere...”69
2. “Fundamentalism is not accidental but essential to Islam… It sees unchangeability as strength. That is why the word reform is so abhorrent to Muslim thinkers and religious leaders ...”70
3. “In Islam truth is established by the sword... dissent is hated as heresy and stamped out as infidelity ...71 early medieval Indian Muslim chronicles mention the sword as the greatest harvester of converts. Islam was made to spread, as the old saying goes, with Quran in one hand and sword in the other. Sword was freely used in forcing people to become Musalmans…”72
4. “There is a uniqueness about Islam. Non-Muslims are to be converted to Islam freely. But once a Kafir becomes a Musalman, he has to remain one for ever thereafter. He is not permitted to renounce Islam or revert to his original faith. Punishment for such apostasy is death...”73
5. “Islam lacks any doctrine of coexistence... Muslim madrasas cannot shed their Kafir complex... The present adjustment of coexistence is a temporary expediency in India...74 It is the teaching of Islam to shun contact with non-Muslims except with a view to converting them… Muslim separatism expresses itself in many ways…”75
6. “In Islam all human beings are not treated as equals. It makes a distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims. A non-Muslim is a Kafir, an inferior being. Non-Muslims do not enjoy any human right in this world; they cannot enter Paradise after death…76 Islam has two sets of principles of morality, ethics and justice: one is for Muslims and the other for non-Muslims. Sincerity, well-wishing and brotherhood are for the believers and faithful…77 Islamic scriptures recommend setting Muslims against non-Muslims, believers against infidels to defend Islam and destroy unbelief. Individual and group killings of Kafirs is encouraged…”78
7. “Islam recommends Jihad or permanent war on adherents of other religions… This makes Islam a totalitarian and terrorist cult which it has remained ever since its birth.79… There have been wars but wars fought by Muslims are in the service of Allah. This gives Islamic belligerency divine sanction and terrorism becomes a divine command…”80
8. “Like proselytization, desecrating and demolishing the temples of non-Muslims is also central to Islam. Iconoclasm derives its justification from the Quranic revelations and the Prophet’s Sunnah or practice ...81 non-Muslims cannot reclaim their desecrated temples. This is the law of Islam...”82
9. “Islam has all the ingredients of imperialism found anywhere in the world in any age... 83 By destroying the national spirit of non-Arab Muslims, Islam has demolished the Asian centres of civilization such as Egypt, Iran and India...”84
10. “The Islamic principles of denigrating the non-Muslims, of aggression and violence against them - principles that perpetually incite to riot and rapine - have boomeranged. However brave face the fundamentalists may try to put up, the victims of Islam today are by and large Muslims themselves. The Prophet must have known that violence begets violence and repeatedly exhorted Muslims not to kill one another after his death. He also had a premonition that violence of Islam against non-Muslims will be met with a backlash. There is a hadis in Sahih Muslim which says that once the Rasul opined that Islam which began in poverty in Medina would one day return to Medina in poverty. ‘Just as a snake crawls back and coils itself into a small hole, so will Islam be hunted out from everywhere and return to be confined to Mecca and Medina.’ The increasing power of the non-Muslim West and the disenchantment of Muslim dissidents point towards that possibility, howsoever remote.”85
Prof Lal has presented many other facets of Islam such as that Islam has no word for democracy;

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=17959
Terror Denial
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 6, 2005
Last Friday, firefighters conducting a routine inspection in a Brooklyn supermarket found 200 automobile airbags and a room lined with posters of Osama bin Laden and beheadings in Iraq. An element in the airbags can be used to make pipe bombs. The owner of the building, according to the New York Post, “served jail time in the late 1970s and early 1980s for arson, reckless endangerment, weapons possession and conspiracy, according to the records.” [1] But officials were definite: this has nothing to do with terrorism.
It doesn’t? What does it have to do with, then? Was this a local Rotary Club chapter that decided to sell pipe bombs as a fundraiser and thought that a few posters of Osama and Iraqi beheadings might liven things up?
Similarly, when explosions killed fifteen people and injured over 100 at an oil refinery in Texas City, Texas on March 23, 2005, the FBI quickly ruled out terrorism as a possible cause. [2] When a group calling itself Qaeda al-Jihad and another Islamic group both claimed responsibility, the FBI was still dismissive. [3] But then it came to light that investigators did not even visit the blast site until eight days after the explosions — and eight days after they ruled out terrorism as a possibility. One more independent-minded investigator asked, “How do you rule out one possibility when you don't have any idea what the cause is?” [4] Still later came the revelation that initial reports of a single blast were inaccurate: there were as many as five different explosions at the refinery. [5]

It may still be possible that these blasts were accidental, and that five distinct things went wrong at the refinery to cause five separate explosions at around the same time. And maybe there was no terrorist involvement. But how did the FBI know that before even investigating?

These are just two examples of a consistent pattern. Last Thursday, federal authorities revealed the revealed the existence of a three-state scam that enabled over two thousand illegal immigrants to get driver’s licenses. Michael Garcia, Assistant Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, explained: “With a valid driver’s license, you establish an identity. There’s no way to identify whether that identity is valid — that you’re not on a terrorist watch list, that you’re not a criminal. It gives you a bona fide.” However, although he did not explain how he could be sure that no jihad terrorists obtained any of the fake licenses, he assured reporters that this case had no connection to terrorism.

NOW THERE IN LAYS THE REAL PROBLEM NO THIS IS NOT A CASE FOR THE COURTS BUT THEY HAVE MADE WAR ON THE USA AND WAR IS WHAT THEY GET!!!!

COURT TIME IS OVER BILLY TRIED THAT AND WHAT DID COME OF IT BUT 9/11/2001!!!

NO BOYS THIS IS WAR!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
What did this get India trial in the 1980s and did that stop the killing of the Indian people no not just no but Hell No!!!

and acid throw on their women no war is what they want so be it!!!

Posted by: Catherine at June 1, 2005 10:47 PM

A10Billr,

DP111 suggested that an American version of the Kolkata Quran Petition may not go well.

I earlier agreed with you that it's a good read.

And it is certainly a straight forward and daring approach. Whether every copy of the Quran would ever be turned over to the Federal government as either seditious or hate inducing documents is certainly a question for debate.

I especially liked the 'government in panic' section. Kinda reminded me of how many things happen, right here at home.

But it's not the only approach.

Would such a criminal or personal injury law suit as I suggested not also bring Islam's ugliness to light in a courtroom?

I think that many alternatives should be contemplated, and held in reserve, as backup strategies.

I still believe that you and I are on the same side here.

What'a ya say?

Posted by: PRCS at June 1, 2005 10:50 PM

a10billr:

I like that! The Koran is quite clear about conquest, subjugation, genocide, incitement to violence, discrimination, racist:

Islam is a satanic cult and just like cannibalism, human sacrificing sects like the Atzteks should be and are banned in our society.

As I mentioned many times before: The Germans also succeeded in outlawing Scientology since it left too many destitude and brainwashed zombies behind.

Islam is much worse! If we can find a sponsor for such a lawsuit it has to be won somewehere where the outcome is relatively secure, for they will definately appeal and take it to the supreme court. Saudi pockets are deep and of course they will spare no expense, to bribe and corrupt (and kill) anyone who stands in their way.
This is a big one. Anyway: I'm all for it!

Posted by: Terminator at June 1, 2005 11:10 PM

a10billr:

I like that! The Koran is quite clear about conquest, subjugation, genocide, incitement to violence, discrimination, racist:

Islam is a satanic cult and just like cannibalism, human sacrificing sects like the Atzteks should be and are banned in our society.

As I mentioned many times before: The Germans also succeeded in outlawing Scientology since it left too many destitude and brainwashed zombies behind.

Islam is much worse! If we can find a sponsor for such a lawsuit it has to be won somewehere where the outcome is relatively secure, for they will definately appeal and take it to the supreme court. Saudi pockets are deep and of course they will spare no expense, to bribe and corrupt (and kill) anyone who stands in their way.
This is a big one. Anyway: I'm all for it!

Posted by: Terminator at June 1, 2005 11:10 PM

Why our representatives in public office refuse to single out Islam itself as the enemy which must be defeated is beyond me. It is pretty simple math to look at the hot spots of the world and understand what is behind the vast majority of terrorism and persecution.

Why the pussy footing around?

Look, all sane people realize that we are in a civilization war with Islam and the Progressives who love them. As Terminator noted above, Scientologists have been banned in Germany (justifiably), and Nazism has been banned, too. Religions of human sacrifice are banned in America and beyond, and so are faiths that may include pedophilia, anachrophilia and beastiality.

Islam has proven itself to be no better, or worse still, than any of these banned practices, therefore it should not be looked at any more sympathetically. Islam is the absolute belief in mass murder and suicide as the means to coerce infadels to bow to their submission.

We must fight them with such ferocity and barbarism until they will unconditionally surrender and renounce the practice of Jihad. No mercy, no compassion. An all out war of dominance of human will is the only answwer ...defeat must be felt at the street level; the household level; and at the mosque level.

The model for victory is the Japanese empire. We anhialated them on an atomic level until the emporer himself bowed at MaCarther's feet. So, too, the Ayotollahs and Sheiks and Mullahs must be broken in the most harsh, the most complete, and the most public of ways. This may seem brutal to the faint of heart, but in the war for survival which the Moslems have already declared through Al Qaida, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Moslem Brotherhood, Baathism, etc., etc., and wholly supported by the population masses of the Moslem world, we shall either win total victory or ultimately suffer a total defeat.

You are either with us or against us.

Posted by: Madzionist at June 1, 2005 11:55 PM

We need a legal foundation first.

What does our Constitution and laws say about this matter.

Are there grounds for a case?

Does this Czech case apply to us:
"... in a democracy, people are not required to praise democracy and that anti-democratic ideas cannot be banned."
Hitler's Mein Kampf in Czech

Would our content be admissible as evidence?

Do we have precedents in legal history?
Any hate-literature and ideologies successfully banned? The Mein Kampf is banned in Germany. How was this case established? On what premises, principles, and evidence?

A known and documented case is the one we have here, The Calcutta Quran Petition. We need to understand how the case was made, and why the Indian Government dismissed it. And whether such decisions are applicable to our Courts.

"39. For the aforesaid reasons I am of the opinion that the Writ Court’s jurisdiction has been wrongly sought to be invoked in this case. No prima facie case has been made out. It is clear that this Court has no power of jurisdiction to pass any such order as prayed for in this application.

40. For the aforesaid reasons this applications stands dismissed. No order as to costs.

41. In this connection I record my appreciation of the very frank, fair and sober manner in which this case has been argued by the Attorney General appearing for the Union of India and the Advocate General appearing for the State."

The Judgement - The Calcutta Qur'an Petitition

Homework, guys. :-)

Posted by: skidd at June 2, 2005 12:59 AM

I thought everybody hated muslims. Do you mean that there are some people out there who haven't gotten the message, yet?

Posted by: Havoc at June 2, 2005 1:33 AM

"He wouldn't be here if he wasn't a Muslim," Mr. Ricco told reporters outside the courthouse.

Well, duh...If he wasnt muslim, he wouldnt be aiding al qaeda...

Posted by: Hans at June 2, 2005 2:21 AM

"He wouldn't be here if he wasn't a Muslim," Mr. Ricco told reporters outside the courthouse.

Well, duh...If he wasnt muslim, he wouldnt be aiding al qaeda...

Posted by: Hans at June 2, 2005 2:21 AM

Right- said- Fred:

"True democracy can't exist. If people like Nazis and muslims are allowed to spread their vile propaganda, the whole system would implode in civil war."

Thsi is why I like JW: some people say the same things, but they know how to pin-point

Posted by: Terminator at June 2, 2005 8:24 AM

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 2, 2005 03:19 PM

Gold Star for you today!!

LOVE THIS PART!!

HIS EYE IS ON THE MONEY!!!

http://www.sperryfiles.com/media.shtml
IN THE MEDIA
Know thine enemy
Frank Gaffney Jr., Washington Times, May 17, 2005,
Flash: Newsweek has apologized. The magazine’s editor says he is sorry for printing a possibly mistaken article that accused US interrogators at Guantanamo of throwing copies of the Koran into prisoners' toilets. Evidently, Newsweek particularly regrets the murderous anti-American rioting the erroneous report set off in various parts of the Muslim world.
Ironic though it may seem, we might just owe Newsweek a debt of gratitude for its shoddy reporting. After all, it provided a wake-up call to see how quickly and how skillfully our enemies seized upon evidence of America's purported hostility to Islam to advance their own agenda.
But who exactly is the enemy and what is their agenda? The instigators of the riots in Afghanistan and Pakistan and their counterparts elsewhere are adherents more to a political ideology — some call it Islamism, others Islamofascism — than to a faith. Using organizational and coercive tactics taken right out of the Bolsheviks' play-book, this Islamist minority seeks first to dominate the Muslim faith's non-Islamist majority, then the rest of us.
For the Islamofascists, material like the fallacious Newsweek report is a godsend. They portray it as proof positive of undifferentiated western hostility towards all Muslims. Armed with such evidence, the Islamists then strive to persuade their heretofore peaceable and tolerant co-religionists that there is no choice but to subscribe to the most virulently intolerant interpretations of the Koran and to join in a divinely-ordered violent struggle (jihad) intended to subjugate infidel nations and populations.
The implications of the Islamofascists' concerted, highly-disciplined and organized and well-financed efforts are ominous. Unfortunately, this is true not only for places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Islamists have held sway for some time, or in Saudi Arabia, the financial and ideological well-spring of modern Islamofascism. Islamism is on the march in such disparate places as Western Europe, Bosnia, Indonesia, Latin America and Africa.
Worse yet, Islamofascists are also increasingly a force to be reckoned with in America, as well. A chilling new book by noted author and investigative reporter Paul Sperry makes clear that the Islamists are well advanced in their efforts to bring jihad to a country near you.
In Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives have Penetrated Washington, Sperry describes in well-documented detail the inroads being made by mostly Saudi-funded Islamist operations in the United States. Many of these operations are headquartered in what he calls the Wahhabi corridor communities in northern Virginia within a few miles of the nation's seat of government. Evidence of their progress to date includes:
• The take-over of non-Islamist mosques throughout America. Typically, this is accomplished by way of mortgages provided on favorable terms by Saudi financial institutions. Along with the financing come Wahhabi clerics, textbooks and other materials and the transformation of religious schools into Saudi-style madrassas.
• Islamist recruitment in US prisons. Sperry describes how Sister Susan VanBaalen, who administers the federal prison ministries, has naively allowed problematic organizations tied to Saudi Arabia to proselytize in unsupervised meetings with inmates.
• Muslim chaplains in the American military have been selected, trained and certified by Saudi-funded organizations founded by one of this country’s most prominent and best-connected Islamists, Abdurahman Alamoudi. Alamoudi is himself now in federal prison, having pled guilty to plotting to engage in terrorist acts
• Islamist inroads are also being made into the student populations of hundreds of colleges and universities across America by chapters of the Saudis-bankrolled Muslim Student Association.
Sperry's most alarming insights, however, concern the success Islamist organizations have had in penetrating and influencing key government agencies. He documents how the FBI has employed translators of suspect loyalties without adequate background checks. He details how political correctness has replaced common sense as federal agencies like the Pentagon, State Department, law enforcement, the intelligence services and even the White House have reached out to groups known to be sympathetic — if not actually tied to — Islamist terrorism.
In some cases, such outreach has served to legitimate the Islamists in question. For example, Sami al-Arian, an erstwhile professor at South Florida University, is defending himself against some 40 federal charges of involvement in terrorist financing and activities on the grounds that he was included in numerous meetings with senior government officials, including George W. Bush.
At the very least, these meetings have facilitated political influence operations aimed at obscuring the distinctions between non-Islamist Muslims and the Islamofascists. Sperry suggests that they have also made possible the placement of individuals who may be affiliated with the latter in key posts inside the US government.
Paul Sperry’s Infiltration comes at a time when more and more Americans are recognizing the danger to our security, society and way of life posed by Islamofascists. They see TV dramas like Fox’s 24 in which the enemy lives and works among us, even as they plot our destruction. They hear that, by some estimates, as many as 70,000 people described as “other than Mexicans,” — many of whom are believed to be from Middle Eastern nations — slipped illegally last year across our inadequately secured borders.
Thanks to Newsweek’s explosive gaffe, we now have further reason to recognize the need to isolate and destroy our Islamofascist foes, even as we seek to reach out to and empower truly non-Islamist Muslims. The latter hold the key to defeating our mutual enemy and, thereby, to avoiding the potentially apocalyptic clash of civilizations sought by that enemy.
Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is the President of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for the Washington Times.

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer

GOD BLESS THE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE HEROS AMEN
pity the countries who need them NOT!! Amen

Posted by: Catherine at June 2, 2005 4:16 PM

a10Billr:

I did write that I had read the Calcutta petition many years ago. The arguments laid out in it, are clear and the evidence overwhelming. And yet, the case came to nothing. The government and the judiciary were in panic. Politics will always play a part in such a court action.

The trouble here is, that it is a book that is being sued. I don't think the courts will wear that, no matter how clear and overwhelming the case against the koran is.

As for risk - there is a great risk of turning islam and muslims into a premier status victim group.

Let me make myself clear. Islam is the worst mix of Nazism, Stalinism and the Mafia. Each of these on their own are bad enough. This view I have held consistently for over 30 years.

PRCS:

I like your idea of an individual or a group of people bringing action, on the basis that the jihadis were primarily guided by the koran. Now we have a real and identifiable victim or victims. The courts likes to see a real case of wrong doing that has affected real people.

I suggest the relatives of those murdered on 9/11, as a clear group of victims. If such an action was brought, the media will then concentrate on them, particularly women and children. Opposition or vilification of this group is just not possible - morally or ethically. Politically - it is suicide for any politician. The opposing victim group, ie muslims, will not have a chance - they will be marginalised. All they will be able to say is that muslims were also victims on 9/11. But if they do, then they are caught, and if they dont, they are caught again. Moreover they will appear as nothing but uncaring and uncompassionate whingers.

Your suggestion is great.

Posted by: DP111 at June 2, 2005 8:16 PM

Terminator posted: Saudi pockets are deep and of course they will spare no expense, to bribe and corrupt (and kill) anyone who stands in their way.

There will be opposition to the claim, but it will have to be very discreet, as the claimants would be the relatives of those who were most callously murdered on 9/11. Even the Saudis will be careful in not getting too involved against little children, mourning the absense of their Mum or Dad, and pleading the court for redress.

Posted by: DP111 at June 2, 2005 8:25 PM