"There are no civilians in Islam." -- The Ulema

"Fine." -- U.S. Rep. Tancredo

Posted by: Beagle at July 18, 2005 2:27 PM

"ultimate threat" might have to be met with an "ultimate response."

"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said."

I must agree with him here.

Posted by: jawa at July 18, 2005 2:37 PM

the U.S. could "take out" Islamic holy sites if Muslim fundamentalist terrorists attacked the country with nuclear weapons.
Don't limit the destruction to "holy sites"...evacuate Israel, then flat,black and glow-in-the-dark.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 2:45 PM

I'd settle for the mass deportation of anyone who chooses to follow this murderous, raping, stealing, jailhouse cult.

Personally, I wouldn't waste a rusty old bomb on Mecca, it's not worth the bother. However, the people in this country have put up with enough of the threats from these idiots since 9/11, and none of asked for Muslims to be here in the first place.

Some cultures are simply incapable of co-existense with other cultures, and Islam is one of them. President Gump and his crew should stop passing Islam off as peaceful. Muslims have had 1400 years to prove that they're peaceful, and they blew it.

With regard to Mr. Tancredo, he is one of the few in our government with the balls to stand up to the immigration problem, and if he runs in 08, he'll gain my vote.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 18, 2005 2:46 PM

Oh boy, there goes Denver, another mile high.

Our Moslem cousins are now within their Islamic rites to bomb buses on Colfax St. because Rep. T. Tancredo issued threats against the land of the tww holy places. Coloradans had better bend over turn green from fear or it'll be too late.

It's already too late, isn't it? Tancredo has merely relit the fuse. Ladies, please don't put your kids on a Denver school-bus again. What with the Crusades, and now this outrage against Islam, I'm sorry for the lot of you.

We'll all be very sorry about the dead, of course, but...hey, you voted for the man.

And you from Idaho? Well, so long, friend. I heard that Moslems are investigating a rumor that someone made an Islamophobic remark in a rural area outside of Post Falls. Idaho? No! You daho!

Posted by: sonofwalker at July 18, 2005 2:48 PM

Sorry Mr. Spencer, I cannot agree with you on this one. The question was about our RESPONSE to nuclear attacks on US territory, not pre-emptive strikes.

Once that threshold is crossed, when nuclear devices are detonated (in the name of Allah) on US territory, it's an all out, no-holds-barred fight for survival . . . it's us or them. Without hesitation, I choose us.

Tancredo for '08. Where do we sign up for the t-shirts/bumper stickers/yard signs?

Posted by: miira at July 18, 2005 2:52 PM

Does anyone really think that the wiping Mecca off the face of the Earth will have any positive effect on Islamic ideology?

The Muslims are going to have to get some new marching orders from Allah before they change. Can't we run a PsyOp on these people to make them believe that Mohammad returns in the clouds (or whatever) one day with a real message of peace? It would be cheaper than the war we are running now. Given the proven gullibility of the average Middle-Eastern I don’t see this operation as having a “high risk” of failure if we can get Industrial Light and Magic to do the special effects.

f.g.

"Mohammad: Dudes! You got it all wrong! Chill! Peace out!"

Posted by: f.g. at July 18, 2005 2:58 PM

Miira:

just wanted to correct you. It wasn't Robert who commented on Mr. Tancredo's statement but Rebecca. I don't disagree with the Congressman either. Extreme situations demand extreme measures. When push comes to shove we need to be ready to answer a terrorist attack with nukes accordingly.

Posted by: disillusionised_german at July 18, 2005 2:59 PM

DG, I was just going to say the same thing. Most ppl don't realize that Rebecca posts a lot of the daily posts.

Posted by: Ibn Rushd at July 18, 2005 3:01 PM

Exactly what I (and others) have said. This is a war they started 1400 years ago when their false prophet declared war on anyone who would not submit. As long as Meccca and Medina stand the umma will always believe in their false superiority. No Mecca, no Medina, no problem. Destyroying these two bastions of Islam will sprove to the Muslims that Allah is a false god who cannot protect them. Islam is not a religion of peace and never was. That is taqiyyah. When are people going to wise up?

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 18, 2005 3:10 PM

Could we trade Bush for Tancredo prior to '08?
Please?

Posted by: treehugger at July 18, 2005 3:10 PM

Ibn Rushd:

I'm pretty fast if I want to be ;-)

Posted by: disillusionised_german at July 18, 2005 3:11 PM

Well said, Bohemond. When the jihadis finally succeed in waking the civilized world from its slumber, and the survival instinct finally overcomes political correctnesses, perhaps it will become more obvious to all.

Posted by: NonProphet16 at July 18, 2005 3:24 PM

Nuke Mecca and Medina. --- Really! Are you people living in another country? Do you people think that president Bush would blow up his dearest friends and business partners, the Saudis, no matter what the provocations? Certainly, our next president, Hillary, the whoring leftist, Clinton would even have trouble acting against a direct attack by another state, much less by the stateless Islamists. Look for China seizing Taiwan under our noses, showing us for the spineless wimps that we have become. Our enemies have us pegged and they know that their belligerence would beat our cowardice of our politicians any day.

Posted by: have_mercy at July 18, 2005 3:29 PM

f.g.

I think the desolation of Mecca or Medina would have an effect. It would prove how impotent their god is.

It seems that over the centuries the only thing Moslems understand is strength coupled with a willingness to use it. They perceive the west as weak and are acting accordingly. If Bin Laden believed that the holy cities were going to be wiped out, he would have to back off unless he wanted to go down in history as "the guy who got Mecca destroyed."

For the interested, some Biblical scholars believe that, prior to Armeggedon, Damascus is going to be leveled. Maybe that is the target, after all Mohammed went there may times with his uncle, so it is also a special city for moslems.

Posted by: kennyg1953 at July 18, 2005 3:31 PM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Does anyone really think that the wiping Mecca off the face of the Earth will have any positive effect on Islamic ideology?

Do you think that nukeing the Japanese will stop WWII? Do you think mass bombing of Berlin will stop the Nazi's? Do we learn anything from history?

Posted by: kevin at July 18, 2005 3:32 PM

Do you think that nuking the Japanese will stop WWII? Do you think mass bombing of Berlin will stop the Nazi's? Do we learn anything from history?

You’re missing something. Both the Japanese and Nazis answered to a central government/authority. Islamic terrorists do not. There is no central authority to "surrender." With Mecca gone twenty billion Korans would still remain to poison more minds. What then?

"Nuking Mecca", no matter how satisfying that sounds, doesn't address the long range problems that Islamic ideology presents. Other than killing millions and polluting the earth the best we could hope for coming out of nuking Mecca is throwing a scare into everyone on Earth to change hearts and minds. That is might do but is it worth the risk?

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at July 18, 2005 3:43 PM

test

Posted by: docgary at July 18, 2005 3:45 PM

There is an old a television special narrated by the Late Orson Wells dramatizing Nostradamus’ end of the World prophesies. Anyhow, he basically stated that Muslims would rule Europe, parts of Russia and form an alliance with China. Afterwards, the “Muhammadian” leader would march across the continuant with death at his wake, committing outrages on a scale unseen in history. Later, the Muslim leader who wears a green turban lunches what could be described as a nuclear strike against the “new country”. Nuclear War then ensues, wiping out all, but a small remnant of humanity, leaving an alliance of White Russians and people of the “new country” victorious. Centuries later, humanity rebuilds, ushering an epoch of peace. Good story… Heh!

Posted by: have_mercy at July 18, 2005 3:56 PM

The Israelis identified the Aswan Dam as the ultimate threat to Egypt and communicated that and no more war with Egypt. The fundamentalist Muslims view Mecca as the "capital" of their world, and further it is essential to their religion for each one to visit Mecca in their lifetime and their relics etc will be gone. So, yes, the ultimate threat to Bin Ladin and his ilk would be, you nuke any place in the United States, and the next thing that happens is Mecca and Medina become a sea of radioactive glass and no Muslim will be able to fulfill their religious duty for thousands of years. That is the same balance of power that exists between the U.S. Russia and China...you destroy us...and before those bombs hit we launch ours and the world ends.

Posted by: Abby at July 18, 2005 4:00 PM

It would have been better to make the following point: during the Cold War, the Soviet rulers knew that if they did certain things, certain things would be done by NATO or the American government. And the knowledge of what might be done, would be done, in return, helped prevent the Soviet rulers from doing what they might otherwise have done.

So it would be helpful to make suggestions as to what would constitute deterrence. These might include, not destroying Mecca, which would cause maddened Muslims everywhere to attack and kill Infidels -- and the problem with Islam is that it contains many elements of a violent cult that cannot be wished away, or hidden any longer. Is that something we wish to create? But more sober discussion of how, for example, points of entry and exit into Mecca, could systematically be reduced in number, or airfields used by pilgrims made unusable, is a different suggestion, one that need not be final.

It is now clear to Muslims in the West, or to some of them, that their assumption about continued Western appeasement, based on continued misunderstanding of Islam, was wrong. The EU's foreign policy is still in place, but Bat Ye'or's "Eurabia" is circulating -- even at the highest levels of the Pentagon. Eventually, the instrument of terror will awaken enough Infidels to the permanent problem of Muslims in their midst, who may be "moderate" or "immoderate," whose brand of "moderation" may be real, or feigned, permanent or temporary, immune or not immune to all the personal setbacks, including depressive fits, that a certain number of people in any population, Muslim or non-Muslim, may experience, but that in the case of Muslims, inexorably leads, given that the universe is viewed through the prism of Islam, to attacks on Infidels.

So by all means let there be discussion of deterrence. Such deterrrence could consist of a series of measures, steadily rising in significance.

These could include, but not be limited to:

1) Seizure of Saudi-owned assets in the West, and sale of such assets to pay for the economic damage, including the cost of surveillance and other security measures, that are attributable to Saudi-funded mosques, madrasas, and propaganda all over the world.

2) Seizure of other Arab-owned or Muslim-owned assets in the West, for the same reasons. There need not be any distinction made between property owned by governments and those who are deemed to be enemy nationals -- no such distinction was made during World War II.

3) A complete ban on Muslim migration to the Western world (which needs to be undertaken in any case), and limits put on any contact between Muslims living in the West, who may already have obtained ciizenship and -- unless they are native-born converts -- their countries of origin.

4) Government-sponsored centers to teach people about Islam outside of universities which have been captured in too many places by the apologists for Islam, both Muslim and non=-Muslim, or overnment fellowships for study at institutes set up, not necessarily by the government, to create a cadre of people well-versed in the tenets of Islam and the history of Jihad-conquest.

5) War-footing (i.e., Manhattan Project support for solar and wind and nuclear energy projects, for conservation, and for mass transit, including that such as Amtrak which may lose money, but should be cheerfully subsidized by a more intelligent policy.

6) An end to all outward and visible signs of phony "respect" for Islam, including the refusal to mention "Islmaic terrorism" or "Muslim terrorism." Use these adjectives. Use the word "jihad." Stop all attempts at verbal escamotage, where we are left with deliberate vagueness.

7) End all access to Western education, not only for those Arabs and Muslims studying any kind of science, but in all areas. Instead of attempting the hopeless project of "educating them" out of their belief-system, notice how many terrorists have taken advantage of Western education, and how many A. Q. Khans, or his epigones, have learned from their time in the West how to better damage that West.

8) End all access to the Western world for the children of the ruling elites all over the Muslim world. Without this escape hatch, those rulers will have to begin to consider how to ameliorate things in their own countries.

9) End the jizyah of Infidel aid to Muslim states, such as Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, and whatever the latest political instrument of the shock troops of the Jihad against Israel, the "Palestinians," may be called. Call attention to the $10 trillion that has already been recdeived by the Muslim members of OPEC in the last 1/3 century, and continue to advise those Pakistans, Egyptians, Jordanians and "Palestinians" to ask for that aid no longer from the Infidels, who suddenly have to pay higher prices for oil and hundreds of billions more for security all over the Western world, but to those Arab and Muslim states that, not coincidentally, are receiving those hundreds of billions more in oil revenues each year.

10) Keep the focus clearly on the belief-system of Islam and on Jihad. And after the next small terrorist attack on Infidels -- say, 10 killed - begin to legislate to make sure that some of the measures suggested above become not merely ideas but the law.

11) Clean out the taxpayer-funded government radio and television stations of those who have so misled us about Islam over the past 20-30 years. Begin, possibly, by firing John Simpson, the deeply, conspiratorially anti-Israel head of the BBC World Affairs broadcasting, the same John Simpson (a close friend of Peter Hounam, whose conspiracy book is the kind of thing that antisemites love to flog) who described the Muslim bombers in London as "misguided criminals." That should have been enough to cause his discharge. Why wasn't it? What will it take for the long-suffering British license-payers to demand a change in the BBC coverage and, to begin with, in the personnel in charge of reporting on the Middle East and Islam, where the Lord-Haw-Haw business has gotten way out of hand?

These are things that can be done, should be done, long before suggestions about "bombing Mecca" need to be bruited about.

Talk of attacking Mecca, instead of all of these other suggestions (which do include limiting easy access to Mecca, something which the Saudis already do in limiting the number of visitors), is not likely to be helpful.

Posted by: Hugh at July 18, 2005 4:01 PM

Oh yes, it gratifies the emotions to walk with a swagger and spew bravado. But you are wrong my friends, if you think this problem will be solved via the "Japanese Solution"...(my take-off from CIA parlance in the 1950s, when the orchestrated imposition of Gen. Alfredo Stroessner upon the people of Paraguay inaugurated the conceptual paradigm called the "Paraguayan Solution"...the prototypical military coup...later to be employed with such chilling effect in Brazil in '64 and Chile in '73).

Even in the unlikely event that Rep. Tancredo's trial balloon were operationally employed...and Mecca and Medina were obliterated in response to a nuclear terror attack on the USA, the "Japanese Solution" would in no way end the struggle. It would only make it irrevocable; a literal fight to the death. America's cities would burn as the Nation of Islam coalesced with Muslims of foreign origin to exact their revenge for the destruction of the "Holy" cities. The carnage would be unimaginable.

But regardless of our response, make no mistake, the hit on America is coming, sooner than later. And Bin Ladin's modus operandi has always been to embrace the spectacular. I don't see a simple mall bombing or something of that nature...not as the encore to follow 9-11. No my friends, we are moving inexorably down the road to the use of WMDs. Thousands or even tens of thousands will die. The economy will nose-dive. Investors will flee America like rats jumping from a sinking ship.

How will we respond? How should we respond? I don't have the wisdom to answer such a question.

I know only one thing for certain: even if the problems posed by terrorism are insurmountable, an honest exposition of Islamic intolerance is the one truly viable moral course of action for the West. Regardless of what occurs on the battlefield, we must begin doing something as a civilization that we've refrained from doing up until now. We must begin teaching Islam to our children much the way Communism was taught to the Post-War generation, as the very real threat to freedom and security that it is. We must begin to encourage apostasy on a mass scale from the ummah...openly highlighting the intolerance of Islamic theology and in particular, exposing the moral failings of the Prophet Muhammad himself as so poignantly revealed in the Hadith.

In other words, we must bring the existential incompatability between Islam and freedom out of the op-ed pages and into the classrooms and the mainstream media. But this will never happen without a concerted effort at the highest level of government, and there is no indication that the Bush Admin. is anywhere near ready to take on the job.

Sadly, it is precisely an attack of mass proportion that is the one thing that might just galvanize our public officials into a sober re-examination of our politically-correct, kid-gloves approach to Islam. But by then, it will probably be too late. The clarian call for revenge will be irresistible. Like the rest of you, I'll want blood in the worst way.

God help us all.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 18, 2005 4:03 PM

Sorry f.g. but I have to disagree. Muslims seem to assign a large importance to holy sites. Threatening to nuke them into obilivion for an nuclear, biological, or chemical attack on the U.S. is a solid strategy.

William T. Sherman made an interesting point about his March to the Sea. His point wasn't that it would cause irreparable harm to the Southern economy, but more that it would make Southerners realize that their government could no longer protect them. We need to do the same thing to Muslims. We need to make them feel inferior, that Allah has deserted them, and that the jihadists in their midsts will only bring them more suffering.

For example, with regards to Israel, we should push out the Muslims/Palestinians by a certain yardage for each terror attack (i.e. one terror attack means you lose 50 yards of real-estate or something to that effect). What would the result be? An awful cry from the world, but if the policy was continuously followed, then either all the Palestinians will be forced into other countries or they will start to play nice.

Posted by: Terrahawk at July 18, 2005 4:11 PM

fg stated"
"Nuking Mecca", no matter how satisfying that sounds, doesn't address the long range problems that Islamic ideology presents. Other than killing millions and polluting the earth the best we could hope for coming out of nuking Mecca is throwing a scare into everyone on Earth to change hearts and minds. That is might do but is it worth the risk?"

One should ask what is the risk if we don't fight
back there are really only two choices let them
butcher all the non-muslem man and turn our wives
and duagthers into there whore slaves. So far I would say they are winning. Its sort of like WWII
the longer the rigtheous put it off the bigger the
war.

No I say kick them out and if they protest give
them a one way ticket to see there allah he is in
hell waiting for them when is enough going to be enough.

Posted by: ecil_man at July 18, 2005 4:15 PM

disillusionised_german & Ibn Rushd -

Thanks, the post should have been addressed to Rebecca.

;)

Posted by: miira at July 18, 2005 4:23 PM

If I may be so bold Hugh, how do we know that the higher ups in the CIA are reading "Eurabia"? Has the Langley reading list been updated with your recommendations?

I really think some of the suggestions above are very inventive. 50 yards of territory for every terror attack. Excellent. The borders of Greater Israel will reach the Atlantic in a few months and we'll be importing strawberries from Mali every Christmas.

Posted by: Sebastien at July 18, 2005 4:30 PM

Hugh perfectly stated what needs to be done, but he gave no plan of action of how to actually implement such measures. Short of a successful military coup to form an anti-Islamic dictatorship, such anti-jihad measures would not be possible in today’s political environment. I guess Hugh could present his plan of action to our next president, Hillary Clinton and see what she does with it.

People, this is the most dramatic threat, the West has ever faced, and it does not want to even acknowledge it, much less fight it. Desperate times call for desperate measures… I mean, if our governments are not welling to fight Islam, are there enough brave and capable souls welling to risk it all to fight Islam by any means necessary, even if it involves combating their own governments. We have passed the point where rhetoric has much use in combating Islam.

Posted by: have_mercy at July 18, 2005 4:36 PM

So.. The idea is that if that religious fanatics bent on spreading their fascism to the entire ME and the rest of the world would be detered, not made even more insane by the destruction of their holy land? That is insane. Maybe we should ask the dipshit who suggested it what 'his' reaction would be if the terrorists decided to bomb every amusement pack in the country, with kids in them or if he is religious, found a way to bomb most of the major cathedrals and churches in the US and the rest of the world, with a promise that they would get around to the ones left, as soon as they get more bombs...

People like this scare me 'more' than the terrorists. They are the sort that perpetuate wars after they should have been long over, instead of just starting them and their logic is identical to the insane people they are talking about stopping.

Posted by: Kagehi at July 18, 2005 4:38 PM

From the SperryFiles.com:

Chapter 29: PENETRATING THE WHITE HOUSE
Wahhabi Lobbyists as Gatekeepers

David Hossein Safavian
Administrator, Federal Procurement Policy, U.S. Office of Management and Budget
Ex-Lobbyist, Abdurahman Alamoudi, Janus-Merritt Strategies LLC, Washington
Ex-Director, Islamic Institute
Ali Tulbah
Associate director, Cabinet Affairs, White House
Son of Hasan Ali Tulbah, treasurer, Islamic Society of Greater Houston
Mahboob Khan
Father of Suhail Khan, aide to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta,
ex-White House aide
Founding member, Muslim Student Association
Founding member, Islamic Society of North America
Founder, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice, Santa Clara, Calif.
Co-Founder, Islamic Society of Orange County, Calif.
Co-Founder, Muslim Community Association, Santa Clara, Calif.

Posted by: jawa at July 18, 2005 4:39 PM

I'm afraid I have to agree with the hawks on this one y'all. We are dealing with an enemy whose idea of paradise is killing others and being eternally rewarded for murdering others.
I fear we will have to resort to 'language'they understand. It's like dealing with a malignant schizoid personality...no morals,no rules, no consciencs...you have to make the consequences so horrid, that it is unthinkable, just not worth it to them...and then follow thru on it...and yes, like any spoiled brat teeneger,it gets worse before it gets better, until they *get* it.
Personally, I'd like to see Israel repeat history in "Palestine", as the Romans did in Carthage...20,000 casks of salt and all.
But that's just me.

Posted by: Simon at July 18, 2005 4:41 PM

No, waxing mecca won't end it. But it's one Hell of a start.

Think of waxing mecca as, "The End of the Beginning" ...

I would be honored to press the button, myself.

Posted by: Havoc at July 18, 2005 4:42 PM

Nuclear Weapons are not an option.

Anyone who thinks real nuclear weapons (not the ones you see on TV) can be used without terrible consequences for everyone involved is simply ignorant of the facts.

We possess conventional weapons and tactics that could render Mecca into rubble without the use of nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons simply aren’t necessary to do the job and in fact would be counterproductive subjecting our allies to radioactive fallout.

Now where are those partical beam weapons and rail guns? The same place the jet-cars and rocket packs are maybe?

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at July 18, 2005 5:01 PM

From http://www.serendipity.li/london/tarpley1.htm we find:
===
Washington DC, July 11 — Last week's London explosions carry the characteristic features of a state-sponsored, false flag, synthetic terror provocation by networks within the British intelligence services MI-5, MI-6, the Home Office, and the Metropolitan Police Special Branch who are favorable to a wider Anglo-American aggressive war in the Middle East, featuring especially an early pre-emptive attack on Iran, with a separate option on North Korea also included.
===

From http://www.suetheterrorists.net we get:
===
Our own U.S. Army devised a plan commissioned by Congress to bring down the WTC using commercial airliners and box cutters as weapons.
The laundry list of terrorist warnings handed to the Bush administration prior to 9/11 makes the President and others look like “bumbling idiots or a bunch of conniving criminals” responsible for the mass murders at the Twin Towers and in Afghanistan and Iraq.
These are the harsh words of Timothy McNiven, an outspoken critic of the President’s handling of 9/11 and a 29-year U.S. Defense Department operative still under contract with the government.
He says not only did the Bush administration purposely ignore Al Q’aida in the months preceding the WTC attacks, but the situation is even more disturbing, considering his military unit way back in 1976 devised a mock terrorist attack of the Twin Towers exactly like what occurred on 9/11.
===

Let us fight the real enemy: war mongers. We do not know them yet. Let us put our energies in locating them. Let us not get involved in mutual destruction of each other. If ever there is another attack on the US, it would most probably be the act of the war mongers.

Let us give real support to the troops: stop the illegal wars and bring them home.

Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at July 18, 2005 5:02 PM

As far as I am concerned, if they nuke us all bets are off! We MUST retaliate in kind. They need to know we will not screw around with them anymore.
TANCRDEDO IN '08!!!!

Posted by: wwrwtw at July 18, 2005 5:03 PM

Abby said "So, yes, the ultimate threat to Bin Ladin and his ilk would be, you nuke any place in the United States, and the next thing that happens is Mecca and Medina become a sea of radioactive glass and no Muslim will be able to fulfill their religious duty for thousands of years."

What you forget is, "their religious duty" is to wage jihad. Their religious duty is to follow Allah's kill-the-infidel commandment. Destroying Mecca and Medina won't stop their jihad.

Besides, the jihadists who would set off a WMD in the U.S. will be in the U.S. Are we going to nuke our own cities to kill the jihadists? The suicidal maniac bombers would like that idea.

I think there's a good chance that we'll actually face this situation, and I don't see us taking the steps now to prevent it.

I really like Hugh's ideas, especially #5. With our level of technology, there's no reason to continue burning fossil fuels to run our economy, other than for the personal benefit of Bush/Cheney/etc. If we switch to renewable energy, let the jihadists try to sell sandboxes to raise money for their extra-curricular activities. No oil revenue means no bombs and no madrasses.

Posted by: special_guest at July 18, 2005 5:08 PM

I have long held that the U.S. should have a nuclear threat hanging over the Mideast countries much like the MAD compact that exists between the U.S. and Russia.

Such a policy would force moderate Muslims into having a VESTED INTEREST in keeping their terrorists under control, one way or another. Right now, they have nothing to lose if they continue to give both real and/or tacit support to these groups, as they have for the past 4 decades.

Make no mistake, the loss of their holy cities would be the most world-shattering thing that could happen to Muslims, especially the loss of Mecca. Just the threat of such a happening, IMHO, would cause every Muslim head of state, along with every Imam, to quickly and seriously re-evaluate their support of Muslim extremist groups, particularly with regards to their efforts to acquire, store, and use nuclear weapons.

It is probably the best (and only) to end the probability that Muslim terrorists will explode nukes in our cities, and it is a policy that I desperately wish our president would create behind the scenes.

Posted by: Elad at July 18, 2005 5:13 PM

Why wait?!

Posted by: PCKills! at July 18, 2005 5:14 PM

Terrahawk,

Good point about Sherman. Gen Sherman destroyed Georgia in order to punish those who had started the war. South Carolina was to have suffered a similar fate.Two hundred years later Sherman is still hated in some parts of the south because of the massive destruction in Georgia. One purpose of the destruction was to prevent states from ever trying to secede from the United States again.If you rebel and try to leave the union this is what can happen. The example of what happend to the south worked as you don't have citizens in Iowa or Kansas or New Jersey threatening to leave the union.

Posted by: Roxane at July 18, 2005 5:15 PM

Mohideen Ibramsha,

One of the characteristics of Islamic culture is the nurturing of bizarre conspiracy-theories by to rationalize the pathological dysfunction within the ummah. Your refusal to acknowledge responsibility for the atrocities of Muslims only re-inforce the belief among non-Muslims that Islam is beyond the pale, cannot be reformed and must be confronted.

If you really wanted to help foster understanding between peoples, you would divorce yourself from these psychopathic web-sites and concentrate on expurgating fanaticism from the body of the ummah. YOU are part of the problem, not the solution.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 18, 2005 5:17 PM

Do you think that nuking the Japanese will stop WWII? Do you think mass bombing of Berlin will stop the Nazi's? Do we learn anything from history?

You’re missing something. Both the Japanese and Nazis answered to a central government/authority. Islamic terrorists do not. There is no central authority to "surrender." With Mecca gone twenty billion Korans would still remain to poison more minds. What then?

"Nuking Mecca", no matter how satisfying that sounds, doesn't address the long range problems that Islamic ideology presents. Other than killing millions and polluting the earth the best we could hope for coming out of nuking Mecca is throwing a scare into everyone on Earth to change hearts and minds. That is might do but is it worth the risk?

f.g.

Who cares?

Either way there will be less of them and less of a threat.

Posted by: Crusher at July 18, 2005 5:18 PM

We are talking about after a nuke has been used on US soil. If they use a nuclear bomb here, all out war is the only answer. Deporting them should be happening now!

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 5:20 PM

...... I really like Hugh's ideas, especially #5. With our level of technology, there's no reason to continue burning fossil fuels to run our economy, other than for the personal benefit of Bush/Cheney/etc. If we switch to renewable energy, let the jihadists try to sell sandboxes to raise money for their extra-curricular activities. No oil revenue means no bombs and no madrasses....

I do too. We have spent, what, $200 to $300 billion on the Iraq war alone. If we could have contained Saddam, which, with no WMDs, we probably could, and that containment only cost $50 billion, that would leave you $150 to $250 billion of government funding and infrastructure development. Unfortunately you cannot build a $150 billion of alternative energy infrastructure in 3 years (how long we have been in Iraq), but you could have offered enormous incentives for our citizens. Look how many houses have been built in the last 5 years. Now how many do you think have any alternative energy infrastructure (cells, power interface room, switching equipment). Very very low. Anyway, it would still take many years.

Hugh you also forgot is buying Israel's skill in building hybrid borders of walls/fences, security roads, ground sensors, cameras, etc. I hate this idea of 'locking ourselves in' but is really locking the Muslim terrorists out. Bush has really, really fallen down here.

Well, if there is a god, and we are like a play, he could not dream of a more exciting final act. Western Civilization, the most enlightened civilization ever, destroyed by the followers of a murderer. It reminds me of a South Park episode when aliens are watching a show called Planet Earth, and the announcer is going on excitedly about the chaos and terror - it is quite campy. Isn't that a laugh - a cartoon coming true.

Posted by: reset at July 18, 2005 5:40 PM

I forgot, but in the announcer's plug, he really does say "Will Earth Survive!!?? Stay tuned!"

Posted by: reset at July 18, 2005 5:56 PM

David Hossein Safavian
Administrator, Federal Procurement Policy

Islamist and taqiyyamaster? I find his resume disgusting and vile.

Posted by: reset at July 18, 2005 6:04 PM

Other steps we might take: stop referring to the bombings as bombings. Refer to them as massacres for that is what they are eg The Twin Town massacres, the Bali massacre, the Madrid massacres, the London massacres etc. Every time three terrorists are killed, weapons in hand, by the Israelis in the disputed territories up goes the cry: "There's been a massacre!". Well, what we have seen the holy warriors carry out are massacres.

Posted by: iconoclast at July 18, 2005 6:26 PM

If you really wanted to help foster understanding between peoples, …concentrate on expurgating fanaticism from the body of the ummah. YOU are part of the problem, not the solution.
Cornelius

The tenets of Islam are for a complete life. Every creature has the instinct of survival. If fighting alone is the last option, Islam teaches “how to fight.” Islam does not recommend blood shed. Yes, we are in the process of expurgating fanaticism – not only from the Ummah, but also from all people. Voice of reason starts weak and meek until it grows to subdue the voice of violence. Gandhi did not win freedom overnight. Whether I and persons like me are part of the solution or part of the problem would be decided by the historians.

Don’t we see civil life contracting and military industries expanding in the US? Do you really believe every American could be a warrior? Think about the average American and ways and means of improving his / her living standard.

We have the technology of ultra safe nuclear power. We use them in our nuclear submarines. We have unsafe nuclear plants to produce bomb materials. As we have sealed compressors in our refrigerators, we can produce sealed nuclear reactors that produce neither nuclear waste not bomb material. Such technologies would come to fruition only when the war mongers are defeated.

There are web sites like http://www.suetheterrorists.net just to give alternate scenario. Rejecting every other opinion as conspiracy simply leads to self destruction. See all around and do please wake up.

Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at July 18, 2005 6:34 PM

Does anyone really think that the wiping Mecca off the face of the Earth will have any positive effect on Islamic ideology?

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at July 18, 2005 02:58 PM

NO BUT IT SURE BEATS THE CHINESE AND PIG SPERM IN SPACE??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3070795.stm
Wednesday, 16 July, 2003
'Afghan warlord' arrested in London

An Afghan man accused of overseeing a reign of terror in his home country has been arrested following an investigation by Scotland Yard, it has been reported.
Zardad Khan

FUNNY HOW THAT NAME KEEPS POPPING UP??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4007065.stm
Monday, 18 July, 2005
'No impunity' for warlords in UK
By Andy Tighe
BBC home affairs correspondent
An Afghan warlord, Faryadi Zardad, has been found guilty of conspiring to torture and take hostages in his homeland after a landmark case at the Old Bailey.

WILL IT BE PANTIES ON HIS HEAD SINCE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE DEATH PLENTY??

SUPER PIGS TO BE BREAD IN CHINA??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4690651.stm
Sunday, 17 July, 2005
China to send pig sperm to space
China is planning to study the effects of space on sperm, by sending the semen from pedigree pigs into orbit.
Some 40 grams of pig sperm will be taken on board the Shenzhou VI spacecraft for its October launch.
Some of the sperm will be kept outside the spacecraft's biological capsule and some inside, according to China's Xinhua news agency.

OH MY WHAT ABOUT LEEKAGE???

ROTFL!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at July 18, 2005 7:02 PM

I am sorry that it may come to this..
But i have been reading the Koran (what a nightmare that is)...

I can easily find many texts that support complete and utter domination of all who oppose Islam.

Also i can easily find many texts that do call for wiping the jews and christians (well these are the two main peoples Mohammed hated the most).

If they hit us (or try to take out a school) or hospital we fry them overwhelmingly..

If they get pissed so what(they already want everyone dead anyway i think their pissed off enough)

they will not give up until everyone is DEAD or surrenders to Islam

I will not bow down to this vile filth.
We not only take out mecca but anything that even smells or looks islamic) that meany EVERY Islamic country we hit with a massive strike...

Period...

Posted by: jingoist at July 18, 2005 7:08 PM

"What is near and dear to them? They're willing to sacrifice everything in this world for the next one. What is the pressure point that would deter them from their murderous impulses?" he said."

DC Watson:

I was afraid of this ie the nuclear threat being espoused by a mainstream politician. If such an option was ever excercised then we would most definitely win, but our victory will be at a very high cost. Our Judeao-Christian civilisation is founded on a guilt complex, and I do not think that our civilisation could survive the guilt.

It is for this reason that I have posted for a long time, that there is really no way out but a separation. Islam forces muslims to Jihad. They are bound by it and really have no option. The longer term demographic threat is even greater then a nuclear weapon.

The most humane way is separation of muslims from the West. I wish one could think of something that will work but I cant think of anything that will restore our peace and still leave us with a relatively easy conscience.

Posted by: DP111 at July 18, 2005 7:09 PM

We possess conventional weapons and tactics that could render Mecca into rubble without the use of nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons simply aren’t necessary to do the job and in fact would be counterproductive subjecting our allies to radioactive fallout.

Posted by: f.g. at July 18, 2005 05:01 PM

Absolutely correct.

The mass deportation is still a viable option. Also, we feed the world. There are many ways, as Hugh pointed out in his column, to shut these cavemen down. What it will take is balls. Spine being demonstrated by our sorry ass elected officials is going to be necessary.

Shutting CAIR down is going to be necessary. Whether we want to or not, we're going to have to get dirty on this one. This "we won't stoop to their level" bullshit isn't going to work. All these rats understand is power, and that's what they need to be shown. If CAIR wants to call us "intolerant" because we know we can't afford to have Allah's little demons running loose in our nation, then so what?

Their opinion doesn't matter. They throw these stones because of the skeletons they have hanging in their own closet.

We don't need to nuke Mecca, Medina, or any other abode of Satan. The country, its security, and its economy, would simply be better off without Islam.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 18, 2005 7:12 PM

I disagree with one tenant though
Seperation would only work if the muslims wanted it too..

But since the Koran specifically states that all who oppose Islam (meaning its spread as well)..
Are Infidels to be killed for allah..

Seperation will not work as the muslims will then claim (rightly according to the Koran) that since we cut them off we are opposing them...

Second
Look at what the jews are trying to do and the rest of the world is screaming bloody murder just for a fence... because it inconvienances the muslims (and the terrorists) ....

Third
are you willing to do what we need to do for the seperation to work..
This means we round up every muslim put them into camps just like we did in WWII then send them back...

We are still feeling guilty over WWII and what we needed to do back then...
You would have half of america (the democrats and the leftists in a psycho ward...)

Posted by: jingoist at July 18, 2005 7:14 PM

miira:

You are right. Once the nuclear threshold is crossed it is THIRD CONJECTURE TIME.

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2003_09_01_belmontclub_archive.html

Scroll right down.

Posted by: DP111 at July 18, 2005 7:15 PM

It's depressing to have to think about this possibility but irresponsible not to. If Muslims insist on acting as a unified nation (rioting in Pakistan over alleged Quran desecration in Cuba, bombing Londoners in twisted "solidarity" with Iraqis) we should treat them as one, which means collective punishment, especially if our very existence is at stake.

Our situation reminds me of Rome's experience with the Israelites, actually. There too you had a fanatical, backwards Middle Eastern culture reacting violently against the influence of a more advanced and powerful Western civilization. In the end the Romans destroyed the 2nd Temple, demonstrating once and for all the impotence/occlusion of the God of Israel and beginning the transformation of the Jewish religion from one that was interested in power and politics to one more concerned with learning and personal ethics.

Posted by: emperor_diocletian at July 18, 2005 7:29 PM

DP, you're right. It is humane, and it would rid us of the burden of babysitting them here. It's costly, and it puts people on edge.

I can't think of anything better than expelling them from the West. They have failed to adapt to our way of life, and they've had plenty of time to do so.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 18, 2005 7:30 PM

f g posted: Does anyone really think that the wiping Mecca off the face of the Earth will have any positive effect on Islamic ideology?

It most certainly will. Muslims fervently believe that Mecca and Medina are divinely protected. Our nukes will become flowers as they approach Mecca or something like that. Once that delusion is shattered, then the impotence of allah will be revealed and that will be the end of the all powerful allah.

Unfortunately our strategic planners will not wait for the pschological collapse of muslim belief. They will operate on the basis that once the nuke option is chosen, it will be the full strike, otherwise you leave a wounded enemy still capable of striking back.

As I said before, the guilt that we will have as for undertaking such an offensive, will very likely cause a collapse in confidence of our civilisation and hence cause its demise.

Best solution. Live apart. Left to itself with no succour from the West and no opportunity to expand, islam will collapse of its own. Islam has to expand or else it dies. That is the Achilles heel of islam.

Posted by: DP111 at July 18, 2005 7:30 PM

There is more central control of the Umma than you guys think.

The USA has not been struck since 911 not out of sheer accident -- but because the orders are out there NOT to strike us -- yet.

2) The holiness of Mecca is #1 in the collective psyche of all Muslims, including terrorists. The threat of destroying it will have extreme leverage power. The Umma will decide to hold back on the terrorists.

It will not be a long-range solution. But it will be a major pause in our War.

Posted by: metaxy at July 18, 2005 7:50 PM

If mecca and medina are destroyed, two pillars of islam are gone, its dna is broken and never again will the tribal war god of the arabs ascend to try to dominate the world.

Posted by: the poetess at July 18, 2005 8:01 PM

"Best solution. Live apart. Left to itself with no succour from the West and no opportunity to expand, islam will collapse of its own. Islam has to expand or else it dies. That is the Achilles heel of islam."

It is, and always has been, a parasitic culture. It's true that parasites, in the absence of a viable host, will die.

Posted by: NonProphet16 at July 18, 2005 8:17 PM

We are still feeling guilty over WWII and what we needed to do back then...
You would have half of america (the democrats and the leftists in a psycho ward...)

Posted by: jingoist at July 18, 2005 07:14 PM

WE ARE NOT FEELING GUILTY THE DEMOCRATS ARE??

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE BOMBS DROPPED ON JAPAN SAVED LIFES AMERICAN AND JAPANESE!!!

AND IT DIDN'T DESTROY THE WORLD NOT EVEN JAPAN JUST THE CITYS WHERE THEY WERE DROPPED!![AND SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL ALIVE TO DAY WHO WERE ON THE OUTER RING]

GLAD TO SEE SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT LISTENING TO THE SPIN THE MULSUMS THROW OUT BUT READING FOR THEMSELVES WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND DEPORTING ALL MULSUMS IS A HUMAN THING TO DO!!!

AFTER ALL THE UNCLE OF THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST IN LONDON SAID YES HE CAME TO ME THE NIGHT BEFORE??

NOW DID THIS SHOP OWNER WARN ANYBODY AND SAVE LIFES??

NO!!!

BUT AFTER WARDS SAID THEY WERE DUPED BECAUSE THE PLAN WAS TO DROP OFF AND RUN??

NOW IN MY BOOK THAT IS A CRIME CALLED ASSECERY??

NOW HOW MANY ARE OUT THERE WHO WOULD BE ASSECERY'S???

BY THEIR BOOK ALL WILL OR THEY ARE NOT GOOD MULSUMS??

NOW THAT WE HAVE FREED 2 MULSUM COUNTRYS THEY HAVE A PLACE TO GO AND THEY CAN HELP THEM REBUILD???

Part of the American
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
f.g. you have seen to many movies if the mulsums nuke an American city I hope we don't stop with mecca I hope we nuke every mulsum country and all their largest citys to kill as many as we can before we have to have all the Grannys with guns out there whopping ass!!!!!

Posted by: Catherine at July 18, 2005 8:36 PM

DC Watson posted: If CAIR wants to call us "intolerant" because we know we can't afford to have Allah's little demons running loose in our nation, then so what?

Intolerant! I can think of no nation in the world as tolerant, kind and generous as the USA. Islamic organisations have been exploiting the guilt complex that is deep within our civilisation for a long time. Calling us intolerant is just the same exploitation.

We feel guilty because we are wealthy? Amazing. Our wealth came from hard work coupled with ingenuity, and there is no reason to be guilty. We should be proud. But yet we feel guilty. We feel guilty because muslims in the UK are at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. The Guardian and others of that ilk, pander to this by publishing the poverty and isolation of muslims in the UK. Muslims cannot go to pubs and be part of society. Our fault. Poor little dears - give them extra benefits or better still, create high paid jobs such as Diversity Managers etc etc.

Islam has no guilt complexes. The Pope apologised for the Crusades when in fact there was no need to, as it was a defensive action. Islam/muslims have yet to apologise for the multiple Holocausts they have perpetrated through history and still ongoing in Sudan.

Now we have the London terrorists uncle saying “Why can’t Blair and Bush apologise for the way they have abused the human rights of Muslims. They should apologise. They should stop these injustices.”

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=16702#comments

Muslims exploit our kindness and guilt complex. I really do not blame them. I blame us for allowing such a situation to develop and for us getting a reputation as patsies.

We need to stop feeling guilty, and only then can we take the humane action that is vital to safeguard humanity and civilisation from this vile cult of islam.
-----------------------------------------
PS
I oppose nuclear options. The consequences are too horrendous to imagine. The needless death of countless innocent humans, both muslims and non-muslims, will destroy mankind not just in the flesh but in the spirit. Separation OTH, recognises that at this moment in time, Islam and democracy are irreconcilable. Thus a separation leaves hope for the future for everybody. Islam will collapse quite quickly in historic terms if it is unable to expand, and thus relaese the 1.2 billion souls in its enslavement.

We forgot the lessons of history and allowed the expansion of muslims to the West - and that has been the main cause of the invigoration of the jihad.

Posted by: DP111 at July 18, 2005 8:41 PM

Poetess is right. Islam is a simple egomaniacal religion. Moslems believe Allah is protecting them. Moslems believe Islam's simplistic world view. The destruction of the mosques in Mecca and Medina will end Islam as such. Since the rock is from heaven and the zoum zoum water cannot be depleted, since the city needs to be available for the Haj, this will show these miserable savages that the rocks they are praying to are just that. Smash their idols and temples and they will have to consider they have been praying to the wrong god. The religion falls apart if Allah allows Mecca and Medina to be destroyed. It will be unexplainable to the "faithful" and will suggest serious deficiencies in the religion. Perhaps it will humanize Moslems to think they most moderate their behavior as they have been punished. Allah punishes evil doers. The issues is not whether we nuke them, if they nuke us. Mecca and Medina should be destroyed for good reason currently. It is preferable not to kill the inhabitants. The question is when we have been provoked enough to destroy the symbols of the savages and to obliterate its symbols.

We are fighting an ancient war against a warlike ancient people. When their idols are smashed, they will be forced to consider that they have been praying to the wrong god.

Posted by: David England at July 18, 2005 8:52 PM

Mohideen: "Rejecting every other opinion as conspiracy simply leads to self destruction."

No, I don't reject every other opinion, I reject patently absurd conspiracy-theories that have no basis in reality. Mindless idiots who are incapable of discriminating between fantasy and reality and who buy into such bizzare theories...this is what leads to self-destruction.

Let me enlighten you on something else my deluded Muhammaden friend: I would doubt that a single person here bothered clicking on either one of your bizarre conspiracy web-sites...I know I certainly wouldn't waste my time.

By the way, did you know that the creation of Israel was a secret plot hatched by a cabal of Arabian jinns who had infiltrated the highest levels of the UN? They hoped to create conditions where Muslims would go berzerk, resume jihad and start slaughtering infidels as a precursor to re-creating the Caliphate. It's true...it really is. Look how effectively the plan is working!

;-)

Posted by: Cornelius at July 18, 2005 9:01 PM

Irshad Manji just did an interview in England...(www.frontpagemag.com)

In it, she suggested that far from victimization, it is Muslim supremicism that lies at the root of Islamist violence.

She's a Muslim...a woman...and a lesbian. That almost makes her a saint in the liberal nomenklature. I wonder then, if on this one occasion, they might listen.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 18, 2005 9:07 PM

All the options sound good....but fantasy!

The Tancredo's of the world are labelled the 'wingnut fringe' by the PC media and
existing power elite.
Until we break out of the stupor of political correctness and realize our survival is at stake, we will only REACT...Unfortunately, I agree that if these scenarios play out, the bloodscream for revenge will be deafening...and then the ACLU/LIB/NYT crowd will start whispering "...OK, OK, you were right... maybe we should've started profiling before..."

I believe it a well known secret that Sharon HAS passed the word that ANY nation attacking Israel with nukes of any size will see Mecca and Medina vaporized and the Answar Dam flattened. Unfortunately, I think Iran would consider it a trade off to see Israel disappear.

Anyone want to take future bets on when Sharon will pre-empt Iran and take out the nuke facilities?
How about even money by summer '06?

Christians - We will die for our beliefs
Muslims - We will kill for our beliefs

Posted by: docgary at July 18, 2005 9:24 PM

Docgary wrote:

Christians - We will die for our beliefs
Muslims - We will kill for our beliefs

Perhaps you may also say:

Christians - We will die for our beliefs
Muslims - You will die for our beliefs

Posted by: David England at July 18, 2005 9:50 PM

Unfortunately, there seems to be a stampede on the part of many commentators I have considered to be clear thinking to be the first ones to condemn Tancredo for his frank appraisal of what may serve to deter an nuclear or other mass killing of infidels in the west where they live. It is truly pathetic.

Posted by: THw6kds at July 18, 2005 10:17 PM

f.g. says: "Nuclear Weapons are not an option.
Anyone who thinks real nuclear weapons (not the ones you see on TV) can be used without terrible consequences for everyone involved is simply ignorant of the facts."

Hey, f.g., why don't you talk to our islamofascist buddies and see if you can reason with them on this subject? Even though you say nukes are not an option, I get the disinct impression that the terrorist muslim fanatics kind of have their hearts set on them.

Posted by: THw6kds at July 18, 2005 10:29 PM

Posted by: DP111 at July 18, 2005 08:41 PM

WE DON'T NEED NUKES WE HAVE SOME OTHER BIG TOYS FOR BIG BOY 1 MOABs & MOPs??

NOW I AM IN FAVOVOR OF MOPPING UP A BIG MESS HOW ABOUT YOU???????

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Amen

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Posted by: Catherine at July 18, 2005 10:53 PM

i say do it. Lets do it.

Posted by: Chris at July 18, 2005 10:55 PM

The term MAD is being bandied about but that was a foriegn policy in a completly differnet era. The Soviet communist weasels didn't want to be destroyed, so MAD worked with them. But what's the point of threatening destruction to a group of people who revel in it? The fear of nuclear war can be greatly assauged by promises of a big Allah- sponsored whorehouse in heaven.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at July 18, 2005 11:07 PM

screw the politics. just DO IT

Posted by: Chris at July 18, 2005 11:09 PM

Amen Mr. Tancredo. I not only will vote for you but will donate as well. Only a fool would be bound by self imposed "ethical and humanitarian" guidelines when fighting an enemy who wants to kill you, your family, your next generation, your culture, and your religion. I hope Mr. Bush and the rest of the Western leaders including Mr. Putin wake up and realize the seriousness of the threat Western culture faces from these 7th century throw backs. We are in total war. Denial will only get you killed. Total war requires a total determination of self that when it is all over, you and your family will still be standing. I believe we have very dark days ahead of us that will only be surmounted by a strong backbone and steadfastness like that being shown by our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Weak politicians pandering to every ethnic group for every vote and afraid to call Islamic Terrorism what it is can only get us all killed. Amen to Mr. Tancredo for saying what no other politician inside the beltway has the courage to say.

Posted by: JoeTOH at July 18, 2005 11:11 PM

Yada, yada, yada.

I can promise you -- if even one WMD goes off in the United States, the bombing of Mecca would just be the start.

How much patience do you all really think the United States has as a people? It is great but finite.

A nuclear attack on American soil or any American possession would ignite a conflict that hasn't been seen on this planet since WW2 -- and Islam has been asking for a reckoning for too long. I say if they are truly barbaric enough to strike at the one Superpower with such ferocity, then we will be well within our rights to exact a punishment that should be sufficient enough to make them wish they'd never been born.

(Warning Spoiler Ahead for those who might want to read Orson Scott Card's writings) There's a book called 'Ender's Game' -- in that book the hero, Ender, is confronted by a vicious bully that just simply will never give the hero peace or a sense of security. This bully sadly underestimates the hero, thinking him weak-willed and cowardly. Ultimately the hero strikes out brutally and swiftly, killing his enemy. And the reasoning is simple -- you don't just maim a deadly enemy. You destroy it so it can never seek you out again or go after your friends or loved ones. You cut out the cancer, basically.

Posted by: Foehammer at July 18, 2005 11:11 PM

Posted by: David England at July 18, 2005 08:52 PM

maybe so BUT AND THATS A BIG MONKEY!!!!

Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says

He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

Yes he has chosen the USA!!
TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]

And let’s look at another part?

The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,

Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?

There will be no more warnings?

Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??

And now Locus in Egypt

NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??

Kazakhstan Blast in mine??

Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??

Earthquake in Algeria??

The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.

YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??

What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??

The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??

Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/

Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??
We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??

And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??

January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??
Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in
Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??
January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??

AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs

Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.

NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??

May 29,2005 Indonesia mulsums kill Christians in a Market try to blow up a church?? 22 dead 40 injured?

May 30,2005 an Earthquake in Indonesia in mulsum region??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158667,00.html
5.7-Magnitude Quake Hurts 37 in Turkey
Monday, June 06, 2005

ANKARA, Turkey — An earthquake () with a preliminary magnitude of 5.7 shook southeastern Turkey () on Monday, injuring at least 37 people, officials said

I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??

OH MY??

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDO, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY[FREEDOM] TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIEVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at July 18, 2005 11:14 PM

Roxane posits: "Good point about Sherman. Gen Sherman destroyed Georgia in order to punish those who had started the war. South Carolina was to have suffered a similar fate.Two hundred years later Sherman is still hated in some parts of the south because of the massive destruction in Georgia. One purpose of the destruction was to prevent states from ever trying to secede from the United States again.If you rebel and try to leave the union this is what can happen. The example of what happend to the south worked as you don't have citizens in Iowa or Kansas or New Jersey threatening to leave the union."

Actually, what Sherman did was to destroy Georgia's ability to wage war -- punishment of the general population was an unfortunate side-effect of destroying that capability.

As for secession notions, they are still out there, although they are stuck along the margins, rather than mainstream. The reason that the states won't secede is that they have become so addicted to federal monies both the state and the people have no idea what they would do without those monies.

Posted by: Cthulhu at July 18, 2005 11:15 PM

Interesting material!, Just got here while searching for something else on the net.

For all my friends inclined towards nuking Makkah I have the following two comments:

1. Islam does not allow hurting an innocent individual in any case. There are even rights for animals and vegetation. The actions of a misled group should not be generalized. If you can't contribute to light, don't contribute to darkness.

2. The protection of holy sites in Makkah is Allah's own onus. See chapter "The Elephant" in Quraan and there are many other historical evidences to that fact.

Posted by: AhmedShemail at July 18, 2005 11:16 PM

1. Islam does not allow hurting an innocent individual in any case
And who is innocent? An "infidel" is never innocent is he AhmedShemail ? The qur'an and hadith are rife with murder and mutilation for the "unbeliever".

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 11:23 PM

Islam does not allow hurting an innocent individual in any case. There are even rights for animals and vegetation. The actions of a misled group should not be generalized. If you can't contribute to light, don't contribute to darkness.

2. The protection of holy sites in Makkah is Allah's own onus. See chapter "The Elephant" in Quraan and there are many other historical evidences to that fact.
Posted by: AhmedShemail at July 18, 2005 11:16 PM

Mr. Ahmed, your Muslim Imams like Omar Bakri, your Islamic groups like CAIR, and your Muslim clerics like Abu "hook hands" Hamza tell all of us a different story. Now be a good apologist and speak the truth about Islam.

9:29, 9:5, 8:12, 4:34, 5:51..........

Posted by: DCWatson at July 18, 2005 11:29 PM

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 11:32 PM

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 11:33 PM

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 11:36 PM

1. Islam does not allow hurting an innocent individual in any case. There are even rights for animals and vegetation. The actions of a misled group should not be generalized. If you can't contribute to light, don't contribute to darkness.

2. The protection of holy sites in Makkah is Allah's own onus. See chapter "The Elephant" in Quraan and there are many other historical evidences to that fact.

Posted by: AhmedShemail at July 18, 2005 11:16 PM

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Ishaq:464 “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.”

Tabari VIII:40 “The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence.”
Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Tabari VII:64/Ishaq:307 “The Messenger of Allah gave orders concerning the contents of the camp which the people had collected, and it was all brought together. Among the Muslims, however, there was a difference of opinion concerning it. Those who had collected it said, ‘It is ours. Muhammad promised every man that he could keep the booty he took.’ Those who were fighting said, ‘If it had not been for us, you would not have taken it. We distracted the enemy from you so that you could take what you took.’ Those who were guarding the Prophet for fear the enemy would attack him said, ‘By Allah, you have no better right to it than we have. We wanted to kill the enemy when Allah gave us the opportunity and made them turn their backs, and we wanted to take property when there was no one to protect it; but we were afraid that the Meccans might attack the Prophet. We protected him so you have no better right to it than we have.’ When we quarreled about the booty we became very bad tempered. So Allah removed it from us and handed it over to His Messenger.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB AND SINCE THE AFGAHANIS BLAME ubl[yellow coward who runs away] FOR LOSING THEIR LANDS BETTER WATCH OUT??

Qur’an 4:94 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah’s Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!’ Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty.”

BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”

BLAB BLAB BLAB??

Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”

BLAB BLAB BLAB ??

SHALL WE GO ON AND PROVE THE KILL CHILDREN AND WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY TIMTATION??

YOU BLAB BLAB IS NOT WORKING HERE WE ARE INFORMED!!!!

SO TAKE YOUR SH-T BACK TO MULSUM LANDS BEFORE????

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
ALL OF EUROPE ISSUED A WARING TO DISENGAGE FROM ALL MULSUM LANDS??

WELL WE HEARD LONDON IS THE NEW MECCA OF ISLAM WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??

ABA MUSRA BERGAIDE??

Posted by: Catherine at July 18, 2005 11:40 PM

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 18, 2005 11:41 PM

One more point for those who are interested:

Islam while covering all faces of life also directs its followers on how to run the matters of the state once an islamic society is established. This also includes directives in the event of war. Like in any other conversation these directives should be read in proper context. For hundreds of years muslim scholars are describing the meanings and implications of these verses and it is wise to refer to them before reaching any wrong conclusion.

Posted by: AhmedShemail at July 18, 2005 11:57 PM

It is always out of context, isn't it?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 19, 2005 12:06 AM

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 19, 2005 12:07 AM

Ahmed Shemail:

For hundreds of years muslim scholars are describing the meanings and implications of these verses and it is wise to refer to them before reaching any wrong conclusion.

Actually, it doesn't really matter what we think those verses mean.

Untold millions of Muslims are convinced that they justify murdering those who don't share their beliefs, which is all that matters.

Posted by: lobo91 at July 19, 2005 12:36 AM

One more point for those who are interested:

Islam while covering all faces of life also directs its followers on how to run the matters of the state once an islamic society is established. This also includes directives in the event of war. Like in any other conversation these directives should be read in proper context. For hundreds of years muslim scholars are describing the meanings and implications of these verses and it is wise to refer to them before reaching any wrong conclusion.

Posted by: AhmedShemail at July 18, 2005 11:57 PM

ROTFL!!! ROTFL!!

Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”

OH MY??

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

OH MY THIS MEANS THAT THE MULSUMS ARE SCREWED!!!

Qur’an 33:11 “In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us.”

WOULD THIS BE BAM OR WOULD IT BE INDONESIA??

HOW MANY DEAD IN THE SHAKING??

Qur’an 33:21 “You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow.”

TELL THE TO THE PEOPLE OF BAM AND BANDA ACHA OH YOU CAN'T THEY ARE DEAD??

Qur’an 5:101 “Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.”

ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE WHO ARE VEXED??

Qur’an 40:32 “O my People! I fear a Day when there will be mutual wailing. No one shall defend you against Allah. Any whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide. That is how Allah leads the skeptic astray.”

SO YOUR god IS GOING TO KICK YOUR ASS??

Qur’an 8:71 “If they try to deceive you, remember they have deceived Allah before.”

IF HE IS A god HOW CAN HE BE DECIEVED ISN'T HE ALL KNOWING GUESS NOT??

Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

THIS IS WHY MULSUMS ARE CONFUSSED ABOUT saddam and ubl both [YELLOW COWARDS WHO KILLED THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND RUN AWAY]

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

OH BUT WE FIGHT BACK AND WIN!!!

Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”

THIS ONE REALLY HUNG YOU BECAUS YOU DIDN'T REALLY KNOW THE BOOK??

IS ANYONE REALY SURPRISED?? If you know about the Torah or the Bible then you would understand they worship Ishmael and what it says about him will be an ass of a man his hand against every one!!

that these images of angles were animated by them and were intercessors with god for man. The most celebrated and central object of arab worship however was the blackstone of Mecca set in the corner of a square building called the Kaaba, in which also are placed the images of Abraham and Ismael each carrying in their hands divine arrows.
SO WHEN THE GO AROUND AND AROUND THEY WORSHIP ISHMAEL KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT HIM??

Genesis Chapter 16
9] and the angle of the LORD said to her “ Go back to your mistress, and submit to her harsh treatment” 10] and the angle of the LORD said to her “I will greatly increase your offspring/ and they shall be too many to count” 11] the angle of the LORD said to her further,” behold you are with child/ and shall bear a son;/ you shall call him Ishmael./ For the LORD has paid head to your suffering./ 12] he shall be a wild ass of a man;/ his hand against everyone,/ and everyone’s hand against him;/ he shall dwell alongside of all his kinsmen” 13] and she called the LORD who spoke to her, “ you are EL-roi” by which she meant. “Have I not gone on seeing after he saw me!” 14] Therefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; it is between Kadesh and Bered.-

YES AN WILD ASS OF A MAN WHO IS AGAINST EVERYONE????

Genesis 17:20 is about Ishmael this is what the mulsums talk about being tied to the Torah and the New Testament
17:18] And Abraham said to God," Oh that Ishmael might live in your favor!" 19] God said, “Nevertheless, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac; and i will maintain My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring to come. 20] As for Ishmael, I have heeded you. I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and exceedingly numerous. He shall be the father of twelve chieftains, and will make of him a great nation. 21] But My covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year" 22] and when he was done speaking with him God was gone from Abraham.
23] then Abraham took his son Ishmael, and all his homeborn slaves and all those he had bought, every male in Abrahams household, and he circumcised the flesh of their foreskin on the very day, as God had Spoken to him.

you see mo-ham-od said to be of Ishaemls seed so hish and will be against all and will be an ass of a man!!

YES WACKED HIS PEE PEE??

Qur’an 8:52 “They denied and rejected the revelations of Allah, and Allah destroyed them, punishing them for their crimes: for Allah is strict, severe in punishment.”

ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO SAY IT IS THE SAME god???

Qur’an 3:26 “You [Allah] exalt whom You please and debase and humiliate whom You will. Those who believe should not take unbelievers as their friends…guard yourselves from them.… Allah commands you to beware of Him.”

PRETTY CLEAR??

Muslim:C14B39N6759 “Aisha, the wife of Allah’s Apostle, reported: ‘Allah’s Messenger left my apartment during the night. Then he came and he saw me in an agitated state.’ He said: “Aisha, what has happened to you? Do you feel jealous?” I said: “How can it be that a girl like me would not feel jealous in regard to a husband like you? Thereupon Allah’s Messenger said: “It is your devil who has come to you.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil with me?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Is there a devil attached to everyone?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil attached to you also?” He said: “Yes.”’”

NOW THAT WOULD BE HIS 6YR OLD WIFE RIGHT??

Qur’an 22:52 “Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before you, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some vanity into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in.” [Another translation reads:] “He recited (the message) Satan proposed. But Allah abolishes that which Satan proposes.” [A third claims:] “Satan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which Satan casts,” [A fourth:] “whose recitations Satan tampered with, yet Allah abrogates what Satan interpolates; and Allah will confirm His Signs/Revelations.”

SO THIS IS THE GUY YOU FOLLOW??

Bukhari:V4B54N516 “The Prophet said, ‘If anyone rouses from sleep and performs ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blow it out thrice because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.’”

YEA THAT WILL WORK??

Qur’an 37:6 “We have decked the lower heaven with stars to protect them against all rebellious evil spirit, and provide security from every forward devil. So they cannot listen to the highest chiefs for they are pelted from every side, repulsed; they are under a perpetual torment, being driven off. Except such as they snatch away something by stealth, but then they are pursued by a flaming fire of piercing brightness.”

NO THAT IS A SPACESTATION??

AND NOW FLYING PIG SPREM!!!

Qur’an 72:3 “There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter preposterous things, atrocious lies against the Lord; We Jinn [Devils] had thought that no man or jinn would ever say anything untrue about the Lord. But there were men who took shelter with the male jinn. But they (jinn) increased them in waywardness, folly, and revolt. And surely they came to think as you thought, that the Lord would not raise up any Messenger. We jinn pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with fierce guards, stern wardens and flaming fires. We used to sit there in, hidden in observatories, trying to steal a hearing; but any who listen now will find a shooting star and a flaming fire watching him, lying in wait as an ambush for him. And we Jinn know not whether harm or evil is the intended fate of all men on earth, or whether the Lord intends to give them some guidance.”

YEA I CAN SEE THE YOUTH GIVING UP THEIR SCATE BOARDS FOR THAT ?? NOT!!!

Qur’an 74:32 “Truly: I swear by the Moon as a witness, and by the darkness of night.”

BUT WE HAVE FLASH LIGHTS NOW AND ELECTRICTY ALL INVENTED BY THE WEST!!!

2+2=4!!!

Qur’an 69:43 “This is a Message sent down from the Lord of men and jinn [demons]. And if the Messenger were to attribute any false words to Us, We would seize him and cut his aorta. None of you would be able to stop Us. So truly this is a Message for those who fear. Yet We know that there are those who deny and belie (this Qur’an). But truly this (Qur’an) revelation is a cause of sorrow and anguish; the nemesis of unbelievers.”

NOW THAT AINT GOING TO WORK TO MANY LIBS??

Qur’an 68:1 “I call to witness the Pen and what it writes. You are not a demented madman or possessed.”

THAT AINT GOING TO WORK??

Qur’an 6:66 “The people reject this (Book) and call it a lie though it is the truth. Say: ‘I am not a warden over you.’ ...When you see men who meddle with Our Revelations, turn away, withdrawing from them. Satan makes you forget.”

THAT AINT GONA WORK??

Bukhari:V5B58N200 “I carried a water pot for the Prophet’s ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While following him with the pot, the Prophet turned and said, ‘Who are you?’ ‘I am Abu.’ The Prophet said, ‘Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, but do not bring any bones or animal dung.’ So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, ‘What can you tell me about the bones and the animal dung?’ He said, ‘They are of the food of Jinns [Devils]. A delegate of Jinns of the city of Nasibin came to me—and how nice those Jinns were—and asked me for the remains of human food. I invoked Allah for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on th