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I routinely insist here that the sincerity of Muslim denunciations of terrorism can be measured by the actual efforts of the denouncer to refute jihadism within his own community, and turn jihadists from the alleged error of their ways. But here is an imam in Britain who denies that mosques have a duty to turn jihadists away from violence. "One Young Man's Concern on Extremism," from Scheherezade Faramarzi in AP, with thanks to Matthew:
LEEDS, England (AP) - Nineteen-year-old Fazel, a British-born Muslim who is angry about his ``immoral'' surroundings, seems ripe for the picking by the recruiters of Islamic extremism. ``I would go if they approached me,'' he says.``I want to get away from here. I don't have a job. I want to learn everything about Islam,'' said Fazel, who refused to divulge his last name during an interview Saturday at a mosque here. His remarks suggested he hoped to find his way to a Muslim country where he could further study the religion and develop his beliefs....
Fazel seems to equate learning more about Islam with going deeper into the world of jihadist violence. Now why is that?
Islamic radicals inside the British Muslim community who are searching for men to become suicide attackers or foot soldiers in the global jihad are thought to recruit disaffected young men like Fazel, sending them for religious or military training in Islamic countries....Despite the young man's growing contempt for Western mores, Fazel said he disagreed with the London subway and bus bombings because ``Islamic scholars said it was wrong.'' The attackers ``should have talked to more educated people.''
But he also denounced Prime Minister Tony Blair's characterization that the bombers were inspired by an ``evil ideology.''
``The evil programs on TV, the music, the literature, the magazines ... are all responsible for the terrorist attacks. People are becoming rebellious because they are against fornication, gambling, alcohol,'' Fazel said.
``Until they get rid of Eminem and Marilyn Manson, they can't get rid of our preachers,'' he added.
Moral equivalence aside: those who equate Christian and Muslim "fundamentalists" should note that Christians who oppose Eminem, Marilyn Manson, fornication, gambling and alcohol are not resorting to suicide bombing.
Fazel called himself a former ``kafar,'' Arabic for an infidel who did not fear God, and said he once enjoyed drinking with his friends and the company of young women.Then, in the aftermath of Sept. 11, he read about al-Qaida and its leader, Osama bin Laden.
Images of the twin towers of the World Trade Center collapsing, he said, fueled his curiosity about the faith of his ancestors.
``Allah pointed me to him (bin Laden),'' said Fazel, dressed in a white shalwar kameez, the traditional loose tunic-and-trouser common to men in South Asia.
Three years later, he said, an angel spoke to him.
``I needed change. Drugs and alcohol did me no good,'' he said.
The young man denied that he was confused about his faith and asserted just as vehemently that he did not ``give a damn about the world.''
Fazel said he has not told his parents about turning to his deepest Islamic roots. Like many of his peers who also were born of immigrant Muslim parents, Fazel has found difficulty integrating into British society and expresses a sense of displacement and alienation.
Zahir Birawi, an official at the mosque where Fazel was interviewed, later said he had seen the young man a few times at prayers and assured a reporter that Fazel's views were not normal.
Birawi said it was not the duty of the mosque to change the views of those who came to worship.
``We have no classes for these things,'' said Birawi, but ``we will make it a priority to try to answer his questions'' about Islam.
Gee, thanks. But what if he doesn't ask?
Birawi said officials at the mosque would tell the police about Fazel if his views did not moderate.While Fazel at one point declared he wanted nothing but to leave Britain, he subsequently indicated some confusion about the future.
If he did not manage to go to Afghanistan or was not recruited by extremists, Fazel said would be just happy settling down here to try to change society from the inside.
``The best thing is to marry a couple of wives and have many children because I think it's wise to increase the population of my umma (people) and raise the number of Muslim members of parliament.
``We want to have more say in Parliament.''
Watch this man.
Posted by Robert at July 25, 2005 9:03 AM
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Islam does not recommend "Global Jihad." All that Islam says is, "defend yourself when attacked."
The 9/11 USA was an inside job. It is becoming apparent that the 7/7 London is also an inside job. Thus, the Muslims are unjustly blamed and attacked. Islam permits jihad when a muslim is attacked unjustly. Thus, jihad in Afghanistan and Iraq are sanctioned in Islam.
The Imam is right. The mosque is a place of prayer and learning. If Fazel seeks clarification, the Imam is obliged to give the clarifications. It is not imcumbent upon the Imam to pry into the hearts of those who come to worship behind him; the hearts are known to Allah SWT and He tunes the hearts.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 25, 2005 9:39 AM
"The best thing is to marry a couple of wives and have many children because I think it's wise to increase the population of my umma (people) and raise the number of Muslim members of parliament. We want to have more say in Parliament."
Douchebag.
at July 25, 2005 9:41 AM
Quote: Islam does not recommend "Global Jihad." All that Islam says is, "defend yourself when attacked."
Anti-Dhimmi Answer: of course. "When attacked" means "whenever some nation on earth still isn't governed according to Shari'ah law". You don't have to do much to oppress Muslims--just have an non-Shari'ah state.
Quote: The 9/11 USA was an inside job. It is becoming apparent that the 7/7 London is also an inside job.
Anti-Dhimmi Answer: anything but admit the evil of Islam. Anything but realise you're a slave to a totalitarian ideology.
Quote: The Imam is right. The mosque is a place of prayer and learning.
Anti-Dhimmi Answer: prayer for the downfall of the infidels and learning how to bring that downfall.
Quote: It is not imcumbent upon the Imam to pry into the hearts of those who come to worship behind him;
Anti-Dhimmi Answer: if there's nothing Muslim leaders can do to moderate people within their ranks, then the West in justified in regarding all Muslims as a danger. The price you pay for not being willing to even lift a finger to prevent terrorism.
Quote: the hearts are known to Allah SWT and He tunes the hearts.
Anti-Dhimmi Answer: as long as Muslims put themselves as Allah's angels, carrying out his dirty work, that excuse won't work.
Posted by: Michael Zaretski at July 25, 2005 9:50 AM
Mohideen,
the last time I tried to answer the BS you post here I was banned.
I give you a song this time:
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/Winds_of_Jihad.mp3
Posted by: Terminator at July 25, 2005 9:52 AM
The best thing is to marry a couple of wives and have many children because I think it's wise to increase the population of my umma (people) and raise the number of Muslim members of parliament.
``We want to have more say in Parliament.''
-- from the article above
Yes, this is it. Print this out, all over the Western world. Put it on the fabled refrigerator. Give it out to your friends. Understand that demographic conquest, if not halted and reversed, will lead to a loss of the entire European component of what is still perhaps too optimistically called "Western Civilization" (the adjective is hopeful, and the noun even more so).
It is a question of numbers, and of the will to do what is necessary -- see the Benes Decree in Czechoslovakai, 1946 -- to end the threat. A threat that is immutable, that cannot be dealt with in any other way (dreams of "integration" are absurd, for the teaching of the Infidel languages and mores will only result in a kind of giant K.G.B. spy school, permitting Muslims to be suave like Tariq Ramadan rather than awkward like Omar Bakri Mohammed -- and it is the tariq-ramadans who are the greater threat.
The more Muslims, the more politicians will curry favor, the more inhibited will be domestic and foreign policy, the more fearful the Infidels, the more open and widespread the Da'wa (Call to Islam) that will be conducted among the economically and psychically marginal, whether prisoners, or the ditzier members of the ruling classes, hoping to distinguish themselves or perhaps, equally absurd, engaged in a Spiritual Search that leads them, disastrously, to Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira.
Self-defense requires that Muslim populations be kept out, and those already within be themselves marginalized, and encouraged to leave rather than to stay. There are a thousand ways to do this, beginning with economic boycotts by private citizens.
Everything needs to be understood, and needs to be discussed. Begin with the Czechs and the Sudeten Germans. The Czech justification for the Benes Decree -- unless you are a German revanchist -- was convincing to the world then, and remains convincing today. Once others have understood how often either exchanges of poplation (essentially, the Muslim countries ahve been empyting out of Infidels -- Christians and Jews from Arab countries, Iran, and Turkey, Hindus and other non-Muslims from Pakistan and Bangladesh and Indonesia. That is "our side" of the population exchange. But the numbers of Muslims inthe Western world has gone up, entirely unopposed and virtually undiscussable.
Learn from the Czechs. Or the Poles, or the many others who booted out ethnic Germans after World War II. Learn from the exchanges of Greeks and Turks, Hindus and Muslims, Jews and Arabs. Or, for that matter, study the mass expulsions of Yemenis from Saudi Arabia, "Palestinians" and Egyptians from Libya, "Palestinians" from Kuwait and Jordan. Apparently everyone in the Muslim world engages in the practice without embarrassment. It is only the Western world that cannot bring itself to identify, properly name, and then address, the problem.
Discuss the undiscussable. Oppose what has been, so far, virtually unopposed.
at July 25, 2005 9:53 AM
"The 9/11 USA was an inside job. It is becoming apparent that the 7/7 London is also an inside job"
Yes, from inside the Mosques.
From inside the heart and soul of Islam.
When I see these lies then I am glad that shoot to kill to protect will continue to be the policy.
at July 25, 2005 9:54 AM
THe young jihadist says:
"``The evil programs on TV, the music, the literature, the magazines ... are all responsible for the terrorist attacks.''"
It's just as good as saying "the war in Iraq (or the jooos still living in the Middle East) is responsible for the terrorist attacks", but we are getting closer to what this actually means. In other words: "Your doing whatever we don't like you to be doing is responsible for our terrorist attacks". Stop fighting against terrorism, stop letting women mingle with men, stop printing those nasty books and magazines, stop playing your haram music, stop (fill in with whatever can be disliked, or considered unislamic by the jihadists) and there will be no terrorist attacks. Simple, right? Who said the Muslims were waging war on the Infidel - they only terrorise, righteously, those who fail to be doing the right thing! Fair enough, ain't it?
Posted by: rahel at July 25, 2005 9:58 AM
Mohideen: another song for U!
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/the_shoe_bomber.mp3
http://islamcomicbook.com/lyrics.htm
Posted by: Terminator at July 25, 2005 10:05 AM
Fazel said he disagreed with the London subway and bus bombings because ``Islamic scholars said it was wrong.'' The attackers ``should have talked to more educated people.''
and maybe the bombs would have gone off
Posted by: shiva at July 25, 2005 10:19 AM
"Islamic scholars said it was wrong.."
--- from the article above
Why was it wrong? If it was wrong from the Islamic point of view, it was so because it damaged Islam, damaged the image of Islam, damaged the position of Muslims in Great Britain. It was not, from the Islamic point of view, morally wrong -- but practically wrong. The phrase "innocent civlians" has frequently been given an elastic interpretation so that it includes, for example, all Israelis, from the day they are born to the wizened concentration-camp survivor, and could well include, by the same logic, all Infidels who as taxpayers support an Infidel government engaged in something (troops in Iraq, or mosque-monitoring and hijab-banning at home) that Muslims deem to be an obstacle to the spread of Islam, or an attack on Islam. And anything that is not complete acceptance of Muslim demands can be an "attack on Islam."
Posted by: Hugh at July 25, 2005 10:28 AM
One thing Fizel learned about Islam is to have a few wives and multiply like rabbits. Not for fun and entertainment, but for political expediency. The more muslims the better. Now this requires a lot of planning...the first thing you need is a few wives...some muslimahs who dont mind being breeders. Then you need money to support the whole works, which means you need to have a decent job or be a good thief, or both.
I dont think Fizel is up to the task of rapid reproduction. He's probably just fantasizing the sex part and indulging in wishful thinking. Only Allah knows for sure...and he's keeping that one big eye, right on Fizel...
at July 25, 2005 10:40 AM
« I am afraid that God has sent these men to lay waste the world ».
- Patriarch Cyrus of Alexandria, while negotiating the surrender of Alexandria to the Muslims, 640 AD.
at July 25, 2005 10:40 AM
Thanks, Mohdideen.
Every time someone like you posts, it convinces me that Muslims in general are a danger to our society.
I once thought Havoc and Hugh were too harsh with their deportation and containment comments.
I no longer think so.
And your post, as well as the article, will be going to my Congressmen, and to each and every non-muslim American I can reach.
Posted by: treehugger at July 25, 2005 10:42 AM
Fazel is a ticking time bomb. When at war, enemy munitions need to be neutralized immediately.
Posted by: William The Crusader at July 25, 2005 10:56 AM
Well, there you have it. Proof if proof were needed that by the Ballot Box or by the Bomb, ALL Muslims want a greater say in the UK Parliament - despite the fact that they are only 1.6 million (ONLY!) in a population of 60 million+. (I say 60 million plus because the British Labour Party does not know how many illegal immigrants are here. Figures generally go from 500,000 to 1.2 million. It stands to reason that if they do not know how many illegal immigrants are here, then they do not know how many Jihad Terror Operatives are here). Its no coincidence that the only recorded electoral fraud in the UK at the last 2 elections (local & national) were committed by Labour Muslim candidates. 1 has been convicted, 6 others are awaiting trial. They were caught by the Police in an inner city warehouse with bags & bags of "Postal Votes". It is rumoured that all the stolen ballots were intended for use by "British" Muslim women, but I can find no concrete evidence of this allegation.
Recently, banking practices in line with Sharia Law were incorporated into English Law. This is the thin end of a very thick wedge, & this Jihadist in Leeds is the vehicle they will use - breed the Anglo Saxon infidel out of the land of their Fathers.
at July 25, 2005 10:59 AM
Strangely enough this article appeared in the Guardian on the 18th of July, merely 5 days after they published an Op-ed by Dilpazier Aslam, susequently outed by bloggers http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/
as a member of suicide bomb supporting Hizb ut Tahrir.
Along with a well written comment by Professor Norman Geras http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1532738,00.html on the 21st of July, are we allowed to ask ourselves if the Guardian is going to start rooting for civilization for a change?
Posted by: Sebastien
at July 25, 2005 11:06 AM
Dear Mohideen
Thank you for that fine display of Islamic mulishness.
Posted by: Bar at July 25, 2005 11:09 AM
Internment and deportation for the more radical Islamists, and threat of same for the rest. A sad realization that this is the option. Bless those who enlighten. Thank you Hugh.
Posted by: dgene at July 25, 2005 11:45 AM
"``The evil programs on TV, the music, the literature, the magazines ... are all responsible for the terrorist attacks."
Islam and the muslims don't belong in any free secular society.
They can't function in it. They can only tear it apart and destroy it, as they have done to many civilized societies in its past. Muslims need to live in an Islamic country; they should just leave and live in one.
If allowed to stay, they will try to turn the free secular society into an Islamic one. Islam sanctions the use of murder and mayhem to accomplish this.
at July 25, 2005 12:44 PM
Mohideen Ibramsha:
I'm glad you post here. I like to keep my enemies close.
Posted by: Foehammer at July 25, 2005 12:50 PM
Mohideen
"The 9/11 USA was an inside job. It is becoming apparent that the 7/7 London is also an inside job". LOL,LOL
Boy are you one dumb Paki Pom. Just be quiet and say nothing because you are giving you're fellow jihadis a bad rep. Now go back to screwing your favourite swine, that is when your prophet is finished of course.
Posted by: William The Crusader at July 25, 2005 12:51 PM
In fact, so close that I reposted your comments on my own blog.
Keep them coming. I love ammunition.
Posted by: Foehammer at July 25, 2005 12:54 PM
Did this man study biology at school? Did no one explain to him what a truly extraordinary organ the human brain is? Did no one remind him that the powers of thought, reason and intellectual curiousity it confers on its owner make it unique? And make its owner uniquely human.
Somebody show this 'man' a diagram of the human brain. And ask him when he intends to start using all of it - as opposed to the restricted area on which he currently functions.
Posted by: Effractor at July 25, 2005 1:04 PM
It is becoming apparent that the 7/7 London is also an inside job.
When I read things like this, I realize these people have a very slippery grasp on reality. That makes them even more dangerous.
f.g.
Posted by: f.g. at July 25, 2005 1:11 PM
f.g.:
Karl Marx, as you are probably aware, said that religion was the opiate of the people. And Mohideen certainly comes across as though he is taking some very powerful, addictive hallucinogen.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 25, 2005 1:55 PM
Where does an unemployed 19-year old get the money to travel halfway around the world, and live in a training camp for months at a time? Where do the training camps get the weapons and ammunition for training? How do these training camps provide food and shelter for all their students (according to the British government, 3000 Britons have traveled to Pakistan to attend these camps)?
This takes big bucks; this isn't just a few lone radicals. This is an entire social structure that supports the process. There are well-respected Moslem doctors and lawyers in the UK and US who are continuing to provide funding for this process, along with the main source of fund that is coming from Saudi oil men.
Every society has disaffected fringe members who burn with rage and blame; only Islam provides the funding and the training for these cast-offs to turn their murderous fantasies into reality.
Posted by: special_guest at July 25, 2005 2:18 PM
"The best thing is to marry a couple of wives and have many children because I think it's wise to increase the population of my umma (people) and raise the number of Muslim members of parliament. We want to have more say in Parliament."
What a coarse, barbaric logic. Not change British society by working hard, contributing to the community, engaging in local and national politics and lobbying for change, becoming an activist. Just moronic, brute, caveman tactics - breed and breed until there are so many of us we can agitate for what we want and agitate with the discontent - and then the cycle continues - overcrowding, no birth control, no parental responsibility, low academic achievment, a lumpen and ignorant and indigent and fanatical underclass living in Muslim ghettoes breeding more hatred and 'grievance' - the future Shazad Tanweer's await us.
Posted by: Zico at July 25, 2005 3:22 PM
7/7 was an inside job – pointers
1. From http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf we find:
===
He and Crystal were helped out of the carriage. As they made their way out, a policeman pointed out where the bomb had been.
"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.
They were led through the tunnel to the platform at Aldgate, which was just a few hundred yards away, and taken out of the station to wait for an ambulance.
Mr Lait was taken to the Royal London Hospital, Whitechapel, where he was visited by the Queen on Friday.
He said: "They asked would I mind if my name were put forward and I said I'd love to meet the Queen, even if the circumstances weren't ideal."
===
2. From http://www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Commentary/1040.html we get:
===
In a seemingly innocuous article in the British newspaper Cambridge Evening News, 32 year-old dance instructor Bruce Lait, in an interview from his hospital bed, said that "The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag."
Read that last part again, very slowly, and let it sink in. "The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train." "They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag."
And the British authorities on the crime scene missed that, and just assumed that it was a carry-on bomb? C'mon, how many times have you seen that bad TV show where the eccentric detective figures out that the crime was an "inside job" because the glass was outside the broken window, not inside where it should have been. I repeat: Crime Scene Investigation 101. Basic physics.
===
Combine the two quotes given above. For any unbiased reader, the conclusion is obvious: the bombs were placed under the train carriage while the trains were at rest. Who has access to the train at rest? Is it that easy for anyone to attach the bomb under the carriage? Are the yards not under observation? We are told that London is a city full of cameras.
It looks like the real conspiracy theory is the one alleging the four poor patsies – dead patsies – to have plotted and carried out the attacks. What a pity the dead do not talk. Rest assured they would talk very clearly on the Day of Judgment!
at July 25, 2005 5:24 PM
Personally, If western culture is so offensive...then I would suggest going elsewhere. Matter of fact they can all leave for all I care. Go to a muslim country and practice your heart out! Oh I forgot no freedom there that is why your parent came to the West in the first place, if it were so good there they would have stayed there..10k
Posted by: 10k at July 25, 2005 7:54 PM
mohideen,
anything to excuse away the fact that islamofascist attacked and killed people, were you there? Did you see the train? Let me guess the Jews blew up the train right?
Remember Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, just watch any of the T.V. cop shows to find that out. So again who did blow up those trains?
..10k
Posted by: 10k at July 25, 2005 8:05 PM
Lets also examine the word PEACE, an Islamic scholar told delegates to understand the meaning of islamic peace, peace will come when all submit to islam. That is the meaning of peace to these islamofascist!
So whe you hear a muslim state they are a religion of peace that is what they mean so dont fall into that trap..10k
Posted by: 10k at July 25, 2005 8:09 PM
FazelIs a direct reflection of what this imam is preaching so excuse away, some amy even fall for it..but not those who know what these muslims want and that is the world ummah. The world ruled by islamic law..10k
at July 25, 2005 8:23 PM
10k Its good to hear from ya again! PEACE! if we all surrender to Islam. I prefer the peace that will ensue when Islam is purged from the hearts and minds of all men. Then we will just have common criminals who rape, murder and steal for their own gratification instead of some desert demon. Not that they are any better, its just they are less organized than Islam.
Posted by: Sharku at July 25, 2005 10:08 PM
Mohideen, from which jail did you say you are Posting?
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 3:24 AM
Mohideen, from which jail did you say you are Posting?
Oh, excuse me: It was a mental institution, no?
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 3:27 AM
Mohideen, from which jail did you say you are Posting?
Oh, excuse me: It was a mental institution, no?
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 3:28 AM
How nice it would be if the UK authorities had released even one picture of the bomb blast? A search on “London attack” in Google Images resulted in
===
34 of about 52 large pictures
602 of about 1100 medium pictures and
29 of about 39 small pictures
===
none showing the blast site.
Could some one persuade the authorities to show the three train compartments involved in the 7/7 bombing so that the world could see the nature of the blasts? The place of crime is normally the most important piece of evidence.
at July 26, 2005 5:01 AM
Mohideen
The pictures have not been released for a number of reasons:
1: We know that Jihad websites will use them & post them on sites for new Jihadi's to masterbate over.
2: In civilised countries we try to spare the relatives of the victims turning on the TV & seeing endless close up pictures of exactly where their loved ones were slaughtered.
3: We know the enemy has technical ability. If they can examine the bomb seen in High Res, they can further tailor their homemade weapons for more destruction.
Conspiracy theories are fine, but they need to be grounded in some sort of reality.
at July 26, 2005 5:30 AM
Mohideen
The pictures have not been released for a number of reasons:
1: We know that Jihad websites will use them & post them on sites for new Jihadi's to masterbate over.
2: In civilised countries we try to spare the relatives of the victims turning on the TV & seeing endless close up pictures of exactly where their loved ones were slaughtered.
3: We know the enemy has technical ability. If they can examine the bomb scene in High Res, they can further tailor their homemade weapons for more destruction.
Conspiracy theories are fine, but they need to be grounded in some sort of reality.
at July 26, 2005 5:30 AM
So we would condemn a whole community without evidence and without trial. Just because the patsies are dead, is there no provision to have a posthumous trial to either prove the guilt or to establish their innocence? Now, we are blaming all Muslims.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at July 26, 2005 7:38 AM
I will not presume to speak for everyone here, but for my part, the answer is YES.
Posted by: Foehammer at July 26, 2005 11:53 AM
Mohideen
There is an old saying that goes something like this. PS- It seems not to be an islamic saying.
" When someone wants to make a fool of themselves, get out of their way."
Posted by: pismopal at July 26, 2005 10:53 PM
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