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I have long maintained that those who identify themselves as moderate Muslims must resolutely attempt to convince Muslims that the theology and ideology of jihad is wrong, or their moderate statements are essentially useless -- and that jihadists will always be able to quote Qur'an and Sunnah against them. Jihadists, as I have often said, view the aggregate of moderate Muslims simply as a recruiting ground. I have also often noted here that support among Muslims for moderate Muslim groups such as Free Muslims seems to be notably slight. This is because, as I have said again and again, there are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. But the mainstream media, left and right, has persistently ignored this, even though the facts abundantly attest to its truth. Now Salim Mansur in the London Free Press (thanks to Nicolei) tells these truths again:
Since at least Sept. 11, 2001, the non-Muslim world at large has been waiting for that segment of the Muslim population designated as "moderate" to resolutely denounce terrorists who, in defiling its faith-tradition, have subverted Islam into a cult of death.The expectation there is a large, identifiable segment of "moderate" Muslims is a transposition to the Muslim world of the idea of "moderation" in politics and religion that sustains democracies.
It is also a natural expectation that the sort of extremism associated with "jihadi" (war-mongering) politics of Muslim terrorism and suicide bombings would generate a counter-offensive by "moderate" Muslims, repudiating such violence and isolating extremists politically and socially, while supporting the global war on terror.
But this has not happened. On the contrary, as atrocities mount, Muslims generally have remained -- their private anguish aside --publicly complacent, and their religious leaders divided on what should be the proper Islamic response.
There has been no spontaneous or organized demonstration of Muslims across the Arab-Muslim world, nor in European or North American cities where Muslims reside in increasing numbers, in support of victims of such terror and in unqualified condemnation of extremists who exploit Islam for their criminal purposes.
Dissension among Muslim religious leaders on whether to condemn terrorism and suicide bombings -- and the absence of any effort by the Muslim majority to express its disgust with extremism -- invariably lead to questioning the nature of Islam by non-Muslims.
Instead of witnessing "moderate" Muslims resolutely taking back their faith-tradition from extremists and murderers, the world has grown numb to endless apologetics and polemics explaining away "jihadi" politics as a misguided, though inexcusable, response to the wrongs inflicted upon Muslims by the West.
The truth is there does not exist an identifiable body of Muslims, substantive in number or an outright majority, who could be described as "moderate" by their repudiation of Muslim extremists.
Violence has been an integral part of Muslim history, irrespective of whether it is sanctioned by Islam, and Muslims who unhesitatingly use violence to advance their political ambitions have created a climate within their faith-culture that any Muslim who questions such practice is then deemed apostate and subject to harm.
Consequently, what might pass for "moderate" Muslims, the large number of Muslims unaccounted for as to what they think, in practical terms constitute a forest within which extremists are incubated, nurtured, given ideological and material support, and to which they return for sanctuary.
Moreover, since there is little experience of democracy within the Arab-Muslim world, the culture of "moderation" remains practically non-existent.
Though the example of Saudi Arabia -- where "mutawwa," or religious police, herd Muslims to their daily religious obligations -- might be considered untypical, it provides the model of authoritarian practice of faith and politics in Muslim societies where dissent is frowned upon and where opposition runs the risk of being branded as seditious.
Read it all.
Posted by Robert at July 26, 2005 11:56 AM
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According to the Koran if you have friends with jews or christians. If you have become intigrated with the civilization that you are supposed to convert.
Then you are not a true Muslim.
This is why Islam is incompatible with anything else. The Koran is Gods word Dictated to mohammed directly...
To defy the Koran is to defy God.
How can a moderate muslim do this...
Either they are not true muslims and will be killed by their fellow muslims.
Or they will have to turn against their own country in order to please allah.
Either way the idea of a moderate muslim is a myth. Moderate muslims have a tendancy to either turn extreemist or they end up dead killed by extreemists.
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at July 26, 2005 12:08 PM
I was just addressing this issue this morning on my blog. I reviewed the debate between Lawrence Auster and Daniel Pipes (whom both Auster & I lionize as one of the greats) and throw in a few of my own comments. It’s great to finally see this issue addressed in a newspaper and with such skepticism. Your work has surly played a role in this change of awareness. Thanks.
Posted by: JasonP at July 26, 2005 12:38 PM
Mr. Spencer,
Nobody presents a case quite like you do - very well put. This is my main blog of choice from this day forward.
My comment:
This does not look encouraging for the people who believe that claiming Islam is a religion of peace is a useful strategy for winning the GWOT. From the post:
As the figures in the chart show, 88 per cent of British Muslims clearly have no intention of trying to justify the bus and Tube murders.
However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified.
Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.
Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.
A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.
YouGov also asked whether or not its Muslim respondents agreed or disagreed with Tony Blair's description of the ideas and ideology of the London bombers as "perverted and poisonous".
Again, while a large majority, 58 per cent, agree with him, a substantial minority, 26 per cent, are reluctant to be so dismissive.
Roughly speaking:
A. 100,000 British Muslims believe the bombing was justified
B. 400,000 British Muslims have sympathy with the feelings and motives of indiscriminate murderers
C. 930,000 British Muslims at least understand why indiscriminate murders are the way they are and,
D. 430,000 British Muslims are reluctant to characterize the London Bombers as 'perverted and poisonous'
I wonder how Hugh Hewitt and company will respond to this news. Perhaps they will point to this story about 100 Muslim peace activists in the Antelope Valley holding signs that say Islam is Peace, or how ten thousand Iraqis observed a moment of peace for the victims of terrorism, or how Iraqi and Danish flags flew together during an Iraqi protest against terrorism in Copenhagen.
Hey guys, that's all well and good, but small gestures mean nothing to me. Claiming that a rally here, a moment of silence there, a fatwa against terrorism somewhere else, and a brotherhood of flags is somehow going to soften the hearts of tens of millions - possibly hundreds of millions - of people is like claiming that you can drink the ocean with a spoon - its insane. It is also bad policy. If this poll does not wake people up, I don't know what will.
Comment continues here
at July 26, 2005 12:42 PM
Islam is an ideology specifically designed by its founder for conquest of foreign lands . One way or the another, it is the duty of every Muslim to support this 'divine' conquest.
Moderate Muslims must be seen as the vanguard of this conquest.
However, terrorism prematurely exposes the true face and nature of Islam. This is why I it is often portraied as ‘unislamic’, as it can jeopardise the final objective.
"We come in peace"...ya right :-(
Posted by: raven_ at July 26, 2005 12:44 PM
The difference between a moderate muslim and a fundementalist is that the moderate has run out of ammunition
Posted by: machira at July 26, 2005 12:44 PM
You can never trust a muslim, because deep down inside, somewhere in their heart they cannot completely accept you as a human being unless you are a muslim.
Nor can they ever be loyal to the country of their birth, unless it is a muslim nation (ie, betrayed India and created Pakistan, Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan)).
They will always hold a certain amount of hatred and disgust for other faiths regadless of how "moderate" they are.
Their will never be a moderate muslim, since this would mean betrayal of Allah and the Koran.
Posted by: Gorkhali at July 26, 2005 12:46 PM
Islam is DECEPTION.
at July 26, 2005 12:47 PM
Lumpy Says "Hey guys, that's all well and good, but small gestures mean nothing to me."
How is this-
"...Tens of thousands of Iraqis stood silent for three minutes in over 130 Fahrenheit heat to commemorate victims of terror and in a sign of unified defiance of terrorism..."
-a small gesture?
at July 26, 2005 1:21 PM
First, see this from
Ali Sina.
To make Islam palatable:
1) get rid of Jihad as warfare from the Koran and the Hadith
2) get rid of dhimmitude as doctrine
3) get rid of hatred of the Infidel as doctrine
4) get rid of misogyny as doctrine
5) get rid of total predestination as doctrine
6) get rid of denigration of Judaism and Christianity as doctrine
7) accept that Islam and Muslims ARE NOT SPECIAL
8) work for a living instead of stealing from others
9) accept that the Hebrew and Christian Bibles are the true words for their faiths and not the concoctions in the Koran (see 6)
10) look truthfully at the life and acts of Muhammad
Does anyone really see this happening? How can anyone claiming to be a moderate Muslim rationalize away the ugly and horrid history of Islam and its teachings?
Ethelred - questioningIslam@yahoo.com
Posted by: Ethelred at July 26, 2005 1:52 PM
OT AND INTERESTING
Two-thirds of Muslims consider leaving UK
Vikram Dodd
Tuesday July 26, 2005
The Guardian
Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have thought about leaving Britain after the London bombings, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll.
The figure illustrates how widespread fears are of an anti-Muslim backlash following the July 7 bombings which were carried out by British born suicide bombers.
The poll also shows that tens of thousands of Muslims have suffered from increased Islamophobia, with one in five saying they or a family member have faced abuse or hostility since the attacks.
Police have recorded more than 1,200 suspected Islamophobic incidents across the country ranging from verbal abuse to one murder in the past three weeks. The poll suggests the headline figure is a large underestimate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1536222,00.html?gusrc=rss
Posted by: shiva at July 26, 2005 2:03 PM
soccer mom - Why don't you tell the full story? The quote you posted describes an Iraqi protest of terrorism there, where the victims are overwhelmingly other Muslims. While this is good as far as it goes, what evidence do you of any protest approaching this scale has occurred with respect to terrorism against the unbelievers?
Posted by: eddiehaskell at July 26, 2005 2:14 PM
Two-thirds of Muslims consider leaving UK
The first thought in my mind after I heard this was "OH NO! I hope they don't come here!"
Posted by: f.g. at July 26, 2005 2:29 PM
f.g.
If you ----- a few mosques when Robert S is not looking,not much chance you willed be bothered by them
at July 26, 2005 2:36 PM
Excellent post, Ethelred. Now can anyone find a "Reformed Muslim" saying these things?
Posted by: JasonP at July 26, 2005 2:52 PM
soccermom109,
Read the rest of my post.
Yep, that's a small gesture. They could do that every single day for a year and radical Muslims in say, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran and Indonesia are not going to suddenly wake up and feel the love.
at July 26, 2005 3:18 PM
This is what "Moderate" Muslims must do
1. Moderate muslims (if they exist) must be willing to put their 'national' identity to the country where they are living and have citizenhip - ie in Britain, the USA - before their loyalty to the ummah. They must put being British first, then being muslim - if they truly want to be a part of the society at large - and being a change of good. I always here that they are Muslims....rarely American, British - usually only as an after thought.
2. The so-called moderate muslims must take on the muslim (civil rights ha!ha!) organizations whose leaders make takiyya statements or jump at any imagined insult and the imams in the mosques where hatred for anything non-Muslim is spread.
If other religious groups took to such
protests on any slight as these thinned-skinned muslims do, perhaps people would wake up. Part of the problem for those of us reared in the West is, we are too polite. We were reared to listened to other opinions - allowing others
to express it and saying - live and let live. Muslims are reared with the idea of the superiority of Islam and Muslimsm thus
they can lie (takiyya) to the infidel (kafir) to ensure the spread of Islam (dawa).
3. The moderate muslims need to be honest and seriously confront the inherent ugliness in Islam and taking a closer look at what is allowed and not via the hadiths and the various traditions as set forth in the interpretation of the law. The first place to begin is to confront the Muslims who say one thing in English and then something completely different in Arabic. What is preached in English is different to what is preached in Arabic. The public at large needs to know these differences. I am very thankful for MEMRI with the texts ffor various interviews and speeched form the Middle-East.
4. Moderate muslims and imams should and must speak openly and clearly against a) the horror of 9/11, the Madrid Bombings, the London Bombings, suicide bombers b) when non-muslims are
attacked in muslim countries, c)on the conditions for non-muslims in muslim countries, on the unequal conditions for women in muslim countries WITHOUT FEAR of being labeled an apostate - thus losing their families and posibly their lives. Speaking out on Islam must not mean an death sentence for those brave enough to do so. The same for those leaving Islam.
5. Moderate muslims must forge a reformation in
Islamic thinking so that it does become compatible with democracy. Present day islam is completely uncompatible with democracy since it is a theocracy. An interesting book dealing with the issue of human rights in Islam is the recent "Islam and Human Rights: Tradition and Politics" by associuate professor in legal studies at the Wharton Shool, Ann Elizabeth Mayer.
6. Moderate muslims must ask themselves whether or not they want to actually live under a form of sharia (Iran or Saudi Arabia) ... the men most likely will not want to give up their power...the women if not brained washed into accepting their less then equal status
under sharia probably would prefer having the choice which they have in their lives in the West. Wearing a head scarf is quite different from wearing a burqa or a melaya.
7. Moderate muslims could do this IF they exist and are willing to come together and face this ugly beast of presently practiced in the various sects in Islam.
Moderate muslims have to be willing to face the
unsavory facts about their religion and their imams and determine what type of society in which they want to live.
I am so thankful that I am an AMERICAN WOMAN living in a country with more freedoms than any where else in the world. I much prefer living in this less-than perfect democratic republic than under the perfection found under sharia.
Posted by: peri at July 26, 2005 3:20 PM
It was written: Allah says, "A true believer does the prayers, pays the tax, bows in homage, and renounces agreements with Jews"...It is also written that it is every muslims 'obligation' to participate in jihad. There are no moderate muslims...There may be some who dont really want to participate in jihad, but these few are hypocrits, and are going to the fire, where Allah can tweek their nose's. Thats if some fanatical relative with a Quran under one arm and a rusty knife doesn't kill them first...
BTW...Mark Williams, talk show host on Sacramento, Ca USA radio station KBFK, who is one of the organisers, along with three muslims, of the California Million Muslim March Against Terror, will explain tonight why that didn't happen...let me guess...lack of interest, right? We will see...
Posted by: duh_swami at July 26, 2005 4:35 PM
Hey soccer mom:
In Major Departure From U.S. Legal Model, Iraq's Draft Constitution Gives Islam Key Role
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB5N1IIMBE.html
"BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Framers of Iraq's constitution will designate Islam as the main source of legislation - a departure from the model set down by U.S. authorities during the occupation - according to a draft published Tuesday.
The draft states no law will be approved that contradicts "the rules of Islam" - a requirement that could affect women's rights and set Iraq on a course far different from the one envisioned when U.S.-led forces invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein."
at July 26, 2005 4:37 PM
peri wrote:
"Moderate muslims... must be willing to put their 'national' identity to the country where they are living and have citizenship... before their loyalty to the ummah."
This should not have to be a choice. What moderate Muslims should do is learn and assimilate what the modern Western secular concept of separation of religion and state really means.
If a moderate Muslim really understood, assimilated and embraced that concept (as millions and millions of Christians have learned to do with grace and maturity and many have learned to accept while maybe whining and moaning a little but not exploding and beheading), he or she would not have to agonize about the choice between loyalty to Britain (or the U.S.A. or France, etc.): he or she would simply do what millions and millions of Christians (and Buddhists and Hindus etc.) do: "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." I.e., they would learn to psychologically comparmentalize their spiritual life: allow the secular state to control laws and the other sociological aspects of the public domain, while regularly retreating into their demarcated spheres of the sacred where they can pray and commune with God.
Of course, we all here at jihadwatch know that the culture of Islam has an overwhelming inertia and hostility to any kind of compartmentalization of the sacred and the secular. And this inertia & hostility inherent to Islamic culture is not just some amorphous attitude: it is meticulously codified in a rich and complex totalitarian system of rules fused with a fanatically literalistic reverence for the Koran and the Hadiths.
Bottom Line: the only hope for the evolution of that strange animal, the "moderate Muslim", will come of two developments:
1) Muslims watering down their Islam so much they become nominal Muslims who don't really practice or believe in Islam, or who at best give lip service to the 5 Pillars of "Islam Lite" (like so many millions of Christians have become in the modern West)
2) Muslims putting Islam through the painful process of a Reformation, whereby nothing will be off limits to the processes of skeptical inquiry, open-minded questions, and unimpeded scholarly investigation of Islamic history and the Koran & Hadiths. This painful process needs to occur on several levels: the level of the clergy and scholars; the level of social erosion of literalistic dogma and its hold on daily life; the level of direct adjustment of laws & politics to reflect the compartmentalization of the sacred and the secular.
The adventure of compartmentalization will necessarily entail what terrifies most Muslims: a relaxation of the grip of Absolute Truth and Absolute Puritanism, allowing society to open up and admit such forces as doubt, skepticism, sexual freedom, freedom of thought and expression, and social experimentation.
Our most reasonable expectation is for #1 to occur in larger numbers. The prospect of #2 happening will probably be as likely as when cool breezes start wafting through Hell.
Posted by: metaxy at July 26, 2005 4:48 PM
OF COURSE there are moderate muslims. I know a lot of moderate muslims. They have no trouble being friends with me even though I'm Christian. They have many Christian and even Jewish friends and they treat them with respect and honor. The Quran is a very confusing document. It has a few violent parts (usually thought to be in self-defence by moderate muslims) and mostly peaceful parts. Anyone who lives according to the peaceful parts is a "moderate" muslim.
Here are some peaceful quotes from the Quran:
[8:61.3] If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
[4:90] …if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.
[Quran 5:87] ... and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.
[Quran: 7:199] ......You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.
[Quran 2:256] "There shall be no compulsion in religion...".
[Quran 60:8]"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable."
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 5:51 PM
(Quran) Surah 109. The Disbelievers, Atheists
1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 6:15 PM
Peri,
Americans do have so many freedoms that we often take them for granted. Foreign travel can really make you say "there's no place like home, Toto."
And, look! Even moslems in Great Britain know they have a good deal. They may talk about leaving, but they won't. It's all hot air--just more victimhood propaganda.
SoccerMom:
Yes, I consider it small potatoes. Do the eighth grad math: 30,000 people for 3 minutes equals 90,000 minutes; divide by 60 equals 1,500 man-hours; divide by 8 equals 187.5 police shifts. That's one London officer for 9 months, without overtime OR a squad of 8 officers and one supervisor for ONE MONTH. So, exactly how many terrorists did all those people capture, or turn in, or identify in the hot sun?? Who were they protesting to? Whose deaths did they mourn? What good did it do??
As far as I am concerned, if they stood in the hot sun on account of terrorism, they have voluntarilly accepted discomfort in their lives WITH NO CORRESPONDING BENEFIT, just like a herd of dhimmis.
Why not collect a contribution for the victims, or the police, or London Transport employees, or the Queen, or the pidgeons in the park??
Or why don't they just forget the whole damn thing?
I swear! If I had to design a system for the complete subservience and corruption of mankind, IT WOULD BE IDENTICAL TO ISLAM. Let's see, how could we make this work:
First, we would control the population as a whole by making one half watch the other half. This keeps both halves occupied. This is genius at work here! We would issue laws to prevent women from holding jobs outside the house; make them wear hot, smelly, humid, unattractive garments (and ugly shoes); prevent them from cutting their hair or plucking their eyebrows or wearing makeup; prevent them from voting or driving (but allow them to lead a camel or a goat). Most importantly, we would make their testimony worth only ONE HALF that of a man's. That way if a woman is raped where nobody else can see it happen, she cannot effectively testify against the man who did it, even if she knows exactly who it is. This little deal keeps the women AND male relatives afraid, and makes the men keep the women in. If a woman does get raped, then it is a reflection on the MEN WHO DIDN'T CONTROL HER, so they will want to dispose of the evidence. Meaning: kill her. We will call this "honor killing", so as to capture the nomenclature as taught by left-liberals, who will not complain because it is obviously a "cultural" thing, and who can be against the assertion of Honor?
Secondly, we will introduce the practice of female genital mutilation. This will be called "female circumcision" so as to sound equal and therefore acceptable when we do this in other cultures, but we really need it because it will help keep honor killing in check. After all, if women could enjoy themselves, they would try to get out. (They might accidently find out that most muslim men are crappy in the sack, too.) So, we will make sure we take out the clitoris entirely, and sometimes most of the labia. So what if she drips all the time? Nobody will know, because women can't be doctors, and no man other than her husband can touch her.
If she becomes useless to him in the bed, he can get another wife or two. A man can have up to four wives, if he can care for them, and as many concubines (Men, note: these are different from wives, but we can figure that out later) as he wants. Women can have only one husband.
Third, we will have a new system of commercial law and what you call in the west Probate Law, the law of Last Wills and Testaments. We will keep this complicated so that the formation of corporations is discouraged, and wealth cannot be accumulated and put to use except by large families. When the patriarch dies, women will get only one half of the portion that a man will get, and the oldest son always controls the distribution. We will prohibit loaning money at interest, so it will be impossible to accumulate large amounts of money except by plunder.
Fourth, we will introduce a system of what those weakling, sissy westerners call "cruel and unusual punishments" which even their supreme imams will not let them do. Ha Ha. We will cut off a hand for minor thefts like shoplifting. Since we have forbidden the use of toilet paper, we will make this hand amputation particularly cruel by cutting off the right hand. That means that the criminal will have to wipe himself and eat with the same hand, and all will then know his uncleanliness and will not then shake his hand in greeting, nor share their bread with him ever again. For more serious crimes, we will cut off one hand and one foot, on alternate sides, so that he can use a crutch, but cannot then carry anything from the market, or through a door, and cannot mount a horse by himself.
For personal injuries to another, we will allow the injured party or his family to inflict an identical injury on the perpetrator. And blinding is available for major felonies. Capital crimes, such as speaking out against our religion, or leaving the religion, are punishable by beheading. The squeemish English used an axe, the French had a machine, and the Japanese military used a swift and heavy sword, but we will use a knife. It takes longer, but the people get to see more blood, and the criminal can scream a little, before he gurgles, as the knife first bites.
We have jails in a few countries, because we learned from the British and French, who learned from the Romans. We are descended from nomads who had no jails. So finally, we will do away with jails and prisons when we tear down the theatres, and churches, and dance-halls, and pubs (bars and saloons to Texans); and kill all the hogs and hog farmers and jews. And kill all the dogs and dog-breeders and jews. And kill all the homosexuals and jews (except for those boys whom we will keep as concubines, for what good muslim won't step over three good women to get to one good boy? But we should then kill the boy when his defilement becomes too great) And we will take the gold from the banks, and the silver from the homes of the infidels, and do away with the graven images of photography, and the decadent art called sculpture, and the painting (which canvas should better have been used for tents), and all that western music called hip-hop and punk rock, and rock and roll, and country & western, and those infidel hymns of the christians, and their stupid musical theatre, and all that imperialist opera. And we will have only speeches by leaders and learned intellectual debates on the radio and television, about our one true religion and how it must spread, and how to do it by stealth and sword, and how to make dhimmi in the proper manner, and to give news of our conquests.
For we are going to offer to live in peace and those who are not like us are to be given three generous options. They can convert to our religion and live like us and enjoy the bounty of our conquests, including infidel concubines. (The blondes make the best whores, especially if they are young.) Or, they can keep their religion, and exercise it PRIVATELY, pay us an annual tax of all in excess of their basic needs, and obey the additional laws we have for non-muslims. (They cannot wear shoes or carry arms, must shave their faces and wear distinctive clothing, cannot strike or insult a muslim, cannot build or renovate a church, and must not have a house or a wall higher than a muslim's, etc.) Or, they can die immediately. For we are going to make all the world just like us, forever and ever and ever, Allah be praised.
Posted by: texan
at July 26, 2005 6:41 PM
"Moderate Muslims" are a fabrication, just as "Islam is a Religion of Peace" is.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 26, 2005 6:48 PM
A poster above tells us with brimming self-confidence that because he is "friends" with a number of Muslims, and because he can bring forth a handful of Qur'anic quotes, all of them either misunderstood (especially 2.256) or irrelevant because abrogated (perhaps his "friends" forgot to tell him about naskh, or abrogation, or perhaps they prefer to be among those who deny its existence as an interpretive principle altogether).
But let's not direct him to www.dhimmitude.org for a discussion of 2.256. He can find the Iranian cleric who wrote about the Muslim view of what that passage means on his own. Let us simply ask him: does he think that the jizyah tax, the special marks on clothing and dwellings, the prohibition on riding horses or using saddles, the inability to marry Muslim women, to testify against a Muslim in court, or a dozen other severe legal, financial, and social disablities that are imposed on all non-Muslims (when they are not killed or converted outright) have no effect on people, and did not over time cause many of them to leave their old religions in order to cease enduring the humiliation and degradation and physical insecurity, and thus to become Muslims? And he, that poster, does not think that that constitutes "compulsion"?
There is a limit to this nonsense.
Posted by: Hugh
at July 26, 2005 6:58 PM
Hugh
Thanks, you nailed the other provisions that I had forgotten about.
Posted by: texan
at July 26, 2005 7:30 PM
OT AND INTERESTING
Two-thirds of Muslims consider leaving UK
Vikram Dodd
Tuesday July 26, 2005
The Guardian
Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have thought about leaving Britain after the London bombings, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll.
The figure illustrates how widespread fears are of an anti-Muslim backlash following the July 7 bombings which were carried out by British born suicide bombers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1536222,00.html?gusrc=rss
Posted by: shiva at July 26, 2005 02:03 PM
SEAMS THIS IS JUST A RUSE WHY ARE THEY NOT COMING FORWARD WITH THE ILSMIC TERRORIST??
AGAIN WHEN THEY LEAVE??
LIKE ALIC BAULDWIN JUST TALK AND TALK IS CHEEP
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 05:51 PM
SEAMS YOU ARE A MULSUM ??
IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN HAVE YOU NOT READ THE QURAN??
YOUR FRIENDS HAVE DONE YOU A BAD THING THEY BROKE ONE OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS OF GOD THEY LIED??
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
ASK WHO THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE??
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”
WATCH OUT AS YOU SAW VAN GOGH?? DID THE MULSUMS THERE EVER PROTEST THE KILLING OF THIS MAN??
THEY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM PROTESTING OVER RUMORS??
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
THIS IS WHY MULSUMS ARE WHIMPS AGAINST THESE MONSTERS WHO KILL THEIR CHILDREN DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOUR CHILDREN??
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
WHAT THEY ARE DOING TODAY YES INVADING AND ARE ONE WHO CRY RASIZIM?? WITH THE MONSTERS??
Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”
ARE YOU ONE WHO SIDES WITH THE PALIS??FOR THEY HAVE THE YELLOW CURSE AND WILL BRING DOWN ALL MULSUMS!!!
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF?? SO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BUT IS THE BOOK THEY WORSHIP!! 1300YRS OF WORSHIP!!
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”
YEA KILL YOUR FRIENDS?? NOW WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT TRUST??
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
SO IT IS A LIE THAT THEY DID NOT KILL WOMEN??
Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
ARE YOU LETTING THESE MONSTER BLAIR THEIR CRAP IN YOUR TOWN SHAME ON YOU?? WHAT ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN REMEMBER BESLIAN!!!
Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
LOOKS LIKE KILL TO ME??
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
WHO YOU GOING TO TRUST?? YOU ARE BEING LIED TO??
ARE ALL MULSUMS KILLER TERRORIST NO BUT CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE??
WOULD YOU WANT A CHILD RAPIST NEXT TO YOU EVEN IF HE SAID I CHANGED???
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”
TERRORIZE THEM??
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”
WHY DO THEY COME WEST THEN? BUT TO TAKE OVER??
Qur’an 72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”
AGAIN IF YOU ARE A NON-MULSUM YOUR WHO THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT??
Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled.”
DON'T SEE PEACE HERE DO YOU??
Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”
AGAIN SEE THE LIES THEY SAID THIS IS NOT IN THEIR BOOK??
Qur’an 9:28 “Believers, truly the pagan disbelievers are unclean.”
THIS WOULD BE LIBS WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD??
Qur’an 9:30 “The Jews call Uzair (Ezra) the son of Allah, and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying from their mouths; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s (Himself) fights against them, cursing them, damning and destroying them. How perverse are they!”
SO THEY HAVE BEEN LIEING TO YOU!!
SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU BELIEVE NONE OF THIS???
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THEM AMEN
at July 26, 2005 7:49 PM
"There will never be a moderate muslim, since this would mean betrayal of Allah and the Koran."
The difference between a 'moderate' muslim and a terrorist muslim is that the 'moderate' muslim hasn't tried to kill you. Yet.
Posted by: sonshiya at July 26, 2005 8:35 PM
On the contrary: They have become more brazen and belligerent.
Those imams I sw on the news accuse the West of 'double-standards' and have no qualms spewing hatred about the 'injustices committed against Muslims' and keep accusing the "Jooooz" to be the root-cause of all the evil in world today.
Blair is making the right noises. I hope he holds up and get's the support he needs.
Whether Bush wakes up and comes to the party remains to be seen.
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 8:41 PM
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 08:41 PM
WHAT DO YOU CALL 50,000 ISLAMIC TERRORIST CAUGHT OR KILLED IN THE LAST 6 MO ALONE THIS IS WHY THEY HAVE STARTED HITTING WHO THEY THINK ARE WEEK AT HOME?? THINK ABOUT IT ??
I'D SAY THE PARTY HAS STARTED??
HEARD THAT SOME MULSUM OFERED SOME GOATS AND COWS FOR CHEALSE CLINTON HAND IN MARRAGE???
OT
Imam Warns Canadian Minister 'Back Off Muslims'
Toronto Globe & Mail - A controversial Toronto imam warned Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan at a closed-door meeting to stop "terrorizing" Canadian Muslims. "If you try to cross the line I can't guarantee what is going to happen. Our young people, we can't control," Aly Hindy, the head of Scarborough's Salaheddin Islamic Centre, recalls telling the minister at the May meeting she held in Toronto with dozens of Muslim leaders. The meeting was part of an effort by Ms. McLellan to reach out to Canadian Muslims amid complaints that the RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service are engaging in racial profiling. Mr. Hindy, who has long complained that CSIS is spying on him, his family and his mosque, told Ms. McLellan that a young Muslim woman complained to him she was roughed up by Canadian spies while her husband was away at prayers. This allegation could spur reprisals because "our women are the most valuable thing to us" and "for a Muslim, honor is more important than his life," Mr. Hindy said in a recent interview
TERMENATOR DON'T YOU WORRY ABOUT THE USA WE GOT GUNS WHAT ABOUT YOU??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
at July 26, 2005 9:06 PM
Catherine:
I'm not a Muslim. I'm Roman Catholic. The Islamic religion isn't that attractive to me personally and I would never adopt it. You should not assume I'm a muslim because I disagree with you.
I have had dealings with both corrupt muslims and good, honest muslims. That's is how it is. Some muslims are good and some are bad. Just like Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. Some Christians are good and some are bad. Have you ever met a muslim? What experience did you have?
This blog is most likely the product of people who do not have contact with muslims in their daily lives. When you have had muslims do kind things for you, it's very difficult to believe that the religion is inherently evil. I suggest you read the story about the Good Samaritan in the Bible.
I could list another 50 quotes from the Quran that encourage peace and tolerance. How do you dismiss these as not being true? Why would a violent religion have a quote that says "Be not the aggressor. God dislikes the aggressor". The word "Islam" itself actually means "peace" in Arabic.
at July 26, 2005 9:29 PM
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 09:29 PM
YEA IN 2000 ISRAELIS FOUND OUT ABOUT THEIR MULSUM NEIGBORS THEY HAD GROWN UP WITH??
READ THEIR BOOK AND FIND OUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE NOT A MULSUM??
HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE??
NOW I LOOK AROUND THE WORLD AND SEE ALL THE KILLING OF NON MULSUMS BY MULSUMS AND HEAR NOTHING FROM MULSUMS EXCEPT BLAB BLAB BLAB BLAB I CAN SEE WITH MY EYES CAN YOU??
FOR WHAT YOU TEACH YOUR MO-BOTS??
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”
WHO DO YOU TRUST??
Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
THIS IS WHAT THE MONSTERS ARE TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN
Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”
WHO ARE THE PAGANS??
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
SO ALL THE CRAP ABOUT MULSUMS NOT FIGHTING OTHER MULSUMS IS JUST THAT CRAP YES A LIE!!
Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”
AGAIN WHO ARE THE DISBELIEVERS?? VAN
GOGH,PEARL,BERG,ALL THE OTHERS AROUND THE WORLD WHO WOULD DARE SPEAK OUT??
Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.’”
YES THEY ARE SPREADIND IN THE WORLD CIAR, HUMAN RIGHTS?
NOW WAKE UP PEOPLE!!BECAUSE IF YOU ARE COMING LATE TO THIS PARTY MO-HAM-OD KILLED ALL THESE PEOPLE EVEN THE CHILDREN!!
Buy the DVD
"Buried in the Sand"
Show it to as many men as you can and the women who are strong enough to see it??
Let them know what is on our door step!!
This rock has been rolling down the hill and will not be stopped?? The storm is coming be Prepared??
The warnings have been many and need to be heeded!!
Think Gun ammo, food, water and first aid?
I would have more that a mo.s Just me?
HLS has a good sight on what to have but they do leave out the guns but when the wolfs are after your sheep better have something to take out the wolf??
I remember the Jewish family on vac. and the bear came and took their baby and the man tried with a pot and pan Sad but the bear won??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
PS
God Bless the country who has HEROS Amen
Pitty the country who needs them??
OH YEA//
Qur’an 4:94 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah’s Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!’ Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty.”
YEA HID THE TRUTH SO YOU CAN STEAL AND KILL THEM??
Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]
AND KILL THEM WHERE EVER YOU FIND THEM??
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
WHY WHY WHY?? if this is what they teach how can they be trusted??
Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
SO THIS IS EVIL PURE EVIL!!
Qur’an 59:11 “Have you not observed the Hypocrites saying to their unbelieving brethren among the People of the Book, ‘If you are expelled [from your homes by the Muslims], we will go with you?’ But Allah is witness that they are liars. If the Jews are expelled, never will the Hypocrites go with them; if they are attacked, they will not help them defend themselves. In truth you [jihadist Muslims] are more fearful and awful (than they) because they are afraid of you. This is a result of the terror (sent) by Allah. They are men devoid of understanding.”
YEA CUTTING HEADS OFF HAS A WAY OF DOING THAT TO GOOD PEOPLE??
DVD is " Burried in the Sand The Deception of America"
Can buy it online last time I ch-ed???
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
ASK WHO THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE??
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”
WATCH OUT AS YOU SAW VAN GOGH?? DID THE MULSUMS THERE EVER PROTEST THE KILLING OF THIS MAN??
THEY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM PROTESTING OVER RUMORS??
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
THIS IS WHY MULSUMS ARE WHIMPS AGAINST THESE MONSTERS WHO KILL THEIR CHILDREN DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOUR CHILDREN??
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
WHAT THEY ARE DOING TODAY YES INVADING AND ARE ONE WHO CRY RASIZIM?? WITH THE MONSTERS??
Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”
ARE YOU ONE WHO SIDES WITH THE PALIS??FOR THEY HAVE THE YELLOW CURSE AND WILL BRING DOWN ALL MULSUMS!!!
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF?? SO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING BUT IS THE BOOK THEY WORSHIP!! 1300YRS OF WORSHIP!!
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”
YEA KILL YOUR FRIENDS?? NOW WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT TRUST??
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
SO IT IS A LIE THAT THEY DID NOT KILL WOMEN??
Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
ARE YOU LETTING THESE MONSTER BLAIR THEIR CRAP
IN YOUR TOWN SHAME ON YOU?? WHAT ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN REMEMBER BESLIAN!!!
Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
LOOKS LIKE KILL TO ME??
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for
you the dissolution of your vows.”
WHO YOU GOING TO TRUST?? YOU ARE BEING LIED TO??
ARE ALL MULSUMS KILLER TERRORIST NO BUT CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE??
WOULD YOU WANT A CHILD RAPIST NEXT TO YOU EVEN IF HE SAID I CHANGED???
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”
TERRORIZE THEM??
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”
WHY DO THEY COME WEST THEN? BUT TO TAKE OVER??
Qur’an 72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”
AGAIN IF YOU ARE A NON-MULSUM YOUR WHO THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT??
Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled.”
DON'T SEE PEACE HERE DO YOU??
Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”
AGAIN SEE THE LIES THEY SAID THIS IS NOT IN THEIR BOOK??
Qur’an 9:28 “Believers, truly the pagan disbelievers are unclean.”
THIS WOULD BE LIBS WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD??
Qur’an 9:30 “The Jews call Uzair (Ezra) the son of Allah, and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying from their mouths; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s (Himself) fights against them, cursing them, damning and destroying them. How perverse are they!”
SO THEY HAVE BEEN LIEING TO YOU!!
PEOPLE SAID TED BUNDY WAS A NICE GUY AND A GREAT NEIGBOR TOO????
Posted by: Catherine at July 26, 2005 9:46 PM
Catherine:
And if you're right and islam is inherently violent, exactly what are we going to do about it??
Short of Holocaust, what other option do you suggest?
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 9:59 PM
Ryan, are you doing the Ricky Martin 'vida loco?'
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 10:05 PM
Ryan: Allow me to answer that for you:
Round 'em up and ship 'em out. Close the mosques, confiscate their property for all the damage they caused. Imprison the Imams and the other hatemongers and keep them in Gitmo till the lights turn blue.
Occupy the oilfields in Saudi Arabia. Chase the Saudis out of their palaces out into the desert where they belong, so they can truck behind camels and screw goats. Back to where they want to be.
Control access to Mekka, have them pay a Jizyia to US!
Do to them what they would like to do to us. Strike terror in the hearts of the Mohammedans, keep them subdued at all times and humiliated.
(straight out of the Koran, just reversed)
Posted by: Terminator at July 26, 2005 10:13 PM
Ryan
After reading "Onward Muslim Soldiers" by Robert Spencer, creator of this site, world events will make sense and you will understand where muslims are coming from. Islam means "submission" not peace. Peace to be achieved through submission to Allah is what is meant by muslims.
Read Hugh's postings for more wisdom and historical perspectives. Links above and daily lessons. There are many other writers you could read also, like Lawrence Auster, Daniel Pipes and a whole list linked to on this site and referenced occasionally by Hugh. Ali Sina at Faithfreedom.org and Ibn Warraq are both ex-muslims who have a lot to say. There are many others. Most of these writers have decades of study behind them, use their wisdom. Learn.
at July 26, 2005 10:22 PM
Catherine:
And if you're right and islam is inherently violent, exactly what are we going to do about it??
Short of Holocaust, what other option do you suggest?
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 09:59 PM
REMEMBER I JUST POSTED THEIR BOOK ??
LOOK AT THE FACTS THAT IS ALL I SAY??
EUROPE APPESSED HILTER AND WAS OVER RUN REMEMBER HITLER HAD A SS MULSUM UNIT??
DON'T HAVE TO GO THAT FAR BUT LIKE THE NAZIS WE HAD TO KICK ASS!!
THE PEACEFUL MULSUMS CAN GO BACK TO MULSUM LANDS IF THEY CAN NOT LIVE IN PEACE IN THE WEST??
BUT WE WILL NOT TAKE IT LIKE THE EUROPEANS DO AND LET THEM PREACH HATE IN OUR STREETS??
Ryan I WOULD PICK UP A BOOK IF I WERE YOU AND READ IT??
originally published in 1912
" The life and Religion of Mohammed the Prophet of Arabia"
By" Rev.J.L. Memezes"
WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR STREETS??
http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html
VIDEO IN NYC OF CRAZY MULSUMS!!!
I SAY DEPORT ALL MULSUMS WHO DO THIS SORT OF THING AND ALL THEIR FAMILYS THERE ARE MANY MULSUM COUNTRY'S FOR THEM TO GO??
NO DON'T LET THE RAPEIST LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE??
LOOK AT HOW THE MULSUMS PROTEST IN THE STREETS OVER A RUMOR BUT WHEN WE FOUND 300,000 DEAD IN MAS GRAVES NOT A PEEP???
NO KNOW WHO YOUR ENEMIES ARE WE DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN THE NAZIS DECLAIRED ON THE USA BUT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM NOW WHY?????????
BETTER READ WHAT THE MULSUMS DON'T SPEEK UP AGAINST??
PRINT THEM OUT TAKE THEM TO BED READ THEN THINKS ABOUT THE MULSUMS KILLING AROUND THE WORLD ALWAYS BLAMING YOU???
AND IF SOMEONE CALLS YOU A RASIST REMEMBER STICKS AND STONES BREAK MY BONES BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME WELL THE MULSUMS ARE THROWING STICKS AND STONES??
HISTORY IS IMPORTANT??
http://www.zum.de/psm/rta/doa8a.php
Reichstagsakten 1888/89, 7. Lp., Vol. 121, Attachment 41: Collection of Documents pertaining the Uprising in East Africa, Report from the Imperial consul general on Zanzibar
No.8, attachment no. 1, Report from District Chief of Lindi
Lindi, August 16th 1888
The Arab segment of the population of Lindi lives on the slave trade. All soldiers and Sultan's men are accomplices and receive their share in the robbery.
The main slave traders are :
Mahamadi Ngunga
Bachofa Hamed
Abid bin Zef
Halaal bin Zef
Salim bin Abdallah
Seliman, the Sultan's prison guard
Rashid de Pappa
and the Kadi Omani bin Jemali
The latter is given a large percentage for remaining silent.
British warships hardly ever have confiscated a slave dhow here and do not visit the port. Almost all the dhows sail under the French flag which they obtain from the consulate in Madagscar, as they have their ships measured there.
I remark simultanously that it is difficult to undertake anything here against slave trade, which is also profitable to the indigenous along the coast, without having a sufficient force at my disposal.
the district chief
Freiherr von Eberstein
YOU SEE WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE
John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad
By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 29, 2004
“Unsigned essays dealing with the Russo-Turkish War, and on Greece, written while JQA was in retirement, before his election to Congress in 1830” [Chapters X-XIV (pp. 267-402) in The American Annual Register for 1827-28-29. New York, 1830.]
John Quincy Adams possessed a remarkably clear, uncompromised understanding of the permanent Islamic institutions of jihad war and dhimmitude. Regarding jihad, Adams states in his essay series,
“…he [Muhammad] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God.”
NOTICE THAT IT IS AGAINST ALL MANKIND NOT JUST JEWS AND CHRISTIANS??
Confirming Adams’ assessment, the late Muslim scholar, Professor Majid Khadduri, wrote the following in his authoritative 1955 treatise on jihad, War and Peace in the Law of Islam :
“Thus the jihad may be regarded as Islam’s instrument for carrying out its ultimate objective by turning all people into believers, if not in the prophethood of Muhammad (as in the case of the dhimmis), at least in the belief of God. The Prophet Muhammad is reported to have declared ‘some of my people will continue to fight victoriously for the sake of the truth until the last one of them will combat the anti-Christ’. Until that moment is reached the jihad, in one form or another will remain as a permanent obligation upon the entire Muslim community. It follows that the existence of a dar al-harb is ultimately outlawed under the Islamic jural order; that the dar al-Islam permanently under jihad obligation until the dar al-harb is reduced to non-existence; and that any community accepting certain disabilities- must submit to Islamic rule and reside in the dar al-Islam or be bound as clients to the Muslim community. The universality of Islam, in its all embracing creed, is imposed on the believers as a continuous process of warfare, psychological and political if not strictly military.”3
And Adams captured the essential condition imposed upon the non-Muslim dhimmi “tributaries” subjugated by jihad, with this laconic statement,
“The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute.”
Indeed, the famous Shafi’i jurist of Baghdad, al-Mawardi (d. 1058), highlights the most salient aspect of the consensus view of classical Islamic jurisprudence regarding the vanquished non-Muslims “tribute”, i.e., the jizya: the critical connection between jihad and payment of the jizya. He notes that “The enemy makes a payment in return for peace and reconciliation.” Al-Mawardi then distinguishes two cases: (I) Payment is made immediately and is treated like booty, however “it does, however, not prevent a jihad being carried out against them in the future.”. (II). Payment is made yearly and will “constitute an ongoing tribute by which their security is established.” Reconciliation and security last as long as the payment is made. If the payment ceases, then the jihad resumes. A treaty of reconciliation may be renewable, but must not exceed 10 years.4 The nature of such “protection”, i.e., a blood ransom, is reinforced in this definition of jizya written by E.W. Lane, based on a careful analysis of the etymology of the term:
NOW YOU CAN HOPE THEY DON'T MEAN WHAT THEY SAY BUT HISTORY SHOWS THE OTHER SIDE??
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
A Letter From Osama bin Laden to the American People
released to press 11-17-2002 or thereabouts
Why teaching the truth about history is so important??
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Jihad against Jews and Crusaders
issued by The World Islamic Front, Feb 23, 1998
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
Declaration of War on America
August 23, 1996 Hindukush Mountains, Khurasan, Afghanistan
By Usama Bin Laden
WAKE UP!!!!!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN
at July 26, 2005 10:24 PM
Let me provide Ryan with a different answer by making the distinction between the demographic group call Muslims and the religion called Islam. Some Muslims are Muslims in name only, others practice the religion to some degree, and others are devout & fully take seriously their duty to wage war on the infidel. You can’t tell much about a religion by those who are lapsed or very lax in their practice. I wouldn't generalize from meeting a few Muslims – either positively or negatively (and I have met more than a few.) Do some reading about the religion and its history. Look at current events and consider the plausible explanations.
Posted by: JasonP at July 26, 2005 10:24 PM
Ryan:
Here is a little quote for you since you are fond of them:
"There is none so blind as he who will not see."
at July 26, 2005 10:27 PM
Deporting muslims to muslim nations will not work and these are the reasons:
1) Muslims will change their names and hide and MORE will wage jihad because they have nothing to lose
2) They will resist deportation and confiscation of their property violently and thousands of police will die
3) Millions of American protestors will mass in the streets
4) Converting to Islam will be the coolest thing to do on College Campuses and a sure sign of rebellion against your parents
5) Muslim nations will see this and refuse to sell oil to the United States (Can you say Dow 5,000?)
6) Conversions will still occur even after all muslims are gone
Read history if you want to see where this type of hatred leads. Villanizing one religion that is a small minority in your society to the point of dehumanization has been done in the past. This deportation idea sounds a lot like the "Madagascar Solution". The Madagascar Solution was proposed before the "Final Solution". If it got to the point of wanting to deport all muslims and this was not feasible, would the "Final Solution" be imposed?
Posted by: Ryan
at July 26, 2005 10:36 PM
ryan is a mulsum??
i not is he a man or a mouse???
Has the liberal mind set taken his manhood that when his family is uner attack he sits and crys OH WHAT DO WE DO??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN
PS
CHINA HAS NUKES POINTED AT THE AUSSIS, USA, RUSSIA, AND A FEW OTHER COUNTRIES??
GOOD THING THE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T WANT THAT MISSEL DEFENCE???
http://www.peoplestruthforum.com/terrorist_update.htm
at July 26, 2005 10:40 PM
The Madagascar Solution was proposed before the "Final Solution". If it got to the point of wanting to deport all muslims and this was not feasible, would the "Final Solution" be imposed?
Well, "The Final Solution" has already been announced for the West, courtesy of UBL and his co-religionists. What should we do? Oh, I remember..."just be quiet and everything will be alright." Look up that quote.
at July 26, 2005 10:43 PM
Catherine:
Here we go with the personal attacks. I knew it was unavoidable.
How dare I disagree with people who want Holocaust-like conditions in the United States? What kind of person would disagree with that? Adolf Hitler is smiling in his grave right now.
Posted by: Ryan at July 26, 2005 11:02 PM
Ryan, Islam means "submission", not peace. If you're a history buff, study Islamic history. Concentrate heavily on what the barbaric hordes of muslim butchers did to India. Read about the muslim seige of Alexandria and weep first for the slaughtered innocents, and then for the senseless destruction of the Library of Alexandria, a heinous atrocity in itself. That's what muslims do---they destroy superior civilizations, wipe out all vestiges of their existence, and replace them with the desolation and malignity of Islam. Islam has besieged the world for over one thousand years. There is absolutely nothing peaceful about Islam; it is a doctrine of perpetual war and a predatory, malevolent abomination.
There are many sophistic suras in the Qur'an that are quoted to confuse or deceive the ignorant. We're not ignorant. As for a "final solution", that's Islam's goal, not ours. At this stage of the conflict, we would be happy for them to return to their respective Islamic cesspits and leave us alone. However, if the attacks and subversion within the West continue, and they will, a final solution to rid the world of Islamic imperialism and terrorism will have to be sought and implemented. Any ideas, or would you prefer to surrender and convert to Islam (if you're not already a muslim)?
Posted by: Susanp at July 26, 2005 11:26 PM
Ryan
I asked a Q?
if not is he a man or a mouse???
Has the liberal mind set taken his manhood that when his family is uner attack he sits and crys OH WHAT DO WE DO??
I call you no name you wear your feelings on your sleave A Q? is not a Fact??
With all that has been presented to you and you still see the same you are lost and not worth my time!!!
I don't care what you think of me I am a redneck who loves her Short Skirts and Hair blown in the wind aint going to wear no burka are you and yours??
I WILL FIGHT TO KEEP MINE WHAT WILL YOU DO???
YOU ARE A SILLY MAN??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
I AINT SEEING YOU COME UP WIT ANY ANSWERS??
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says
He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
Yes he has chosen the USA!!
TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]
And let’s look at another part?
The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,
Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?
There will be no more warnings?
Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??
And now Locus in Egypt
NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??
Kazakhstan Blast in mine??
Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??
Earthquake in Algeria??
The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??
http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-
Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring
Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.
YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??
What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??
The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??
Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia??
9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/
Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??
We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??
And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??
January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??
Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??
January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??
AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs
Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.
Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.
NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??
I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??
sympathy?
We need to learn and keep in mind that word sympathy is in the dictionary between the words SH_T and SYPHILIS!!!
at July 26, 2005 11:26 PM
"Ryan"-
This is a place for theorizing about how to encourage a counter-migration, at the very least, of a theocratically tyrannical culture built on anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-intellectual, and anti-women's rights principles rooted deeply in the Koran (and Hadiths) -until a WMD hits in the West.
What then? (You tell me.)
The more 'infidel' people who read the damned Koran, the less likely they will be to believe the p.c. pabulum about this Warlord's Handbook being ladled into philosophically-uncritical and spiritually-empty skulls by the soft-headed (who have skimmed the Cliff Notes version of Mohammadism).
A class popularly known as 'educators', 'journalists', 'politicians' and 'scholars' -who also seem to know as little about the Western world's meaning, accomplishments and root strengths as they do about the 1350 year swath of global murder caused by Imperialistic Islam. (And spare me the "Christaintiy was as bad..." because the operative word is WAS. Worry about the Salem witches once the jihad ends... maybe in another millenium?)
The Westerners' contempt for their own culture is only matched by their craven deference to the one that would destroy it, and them.
Self-destruction is hypnotically attractive to nihilists, anarchists and the delusional.
Radical Islamicists are more than willing to oblige.
But I find defending women's rights, and standing up for freedom of thought, conscience and belief, and encouraging art and music and human creativity, more useful than waiting to be subjugated.
Submission, my ass.
Posted by: BigSleep at July 27, 2005 12:29 AM
Ryan,
To have a few muslim friends which are your friends is fine, but a few do not represent the millions of blood thirsty muslims who seek to ravage the world with their hatred.
If the muslims are so peaceful then please account for me the atrocities committed against Buddhists in Afghanistan and India (that would include Pakistan and Bangladesh which are illegaly occupied territories), please explain the centuries and even up to present persecution of Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians and tribals in places like Pakistan, Bangladesh.
Explain to me why Sikhism, a peaceful religion became violent and militarised in 1699. Explain to me the centuries of persecution and genocide that resulted in the extermination of at least 80 million Hindus, making the "Final Solution" of WW2 seem like a drop in the bucket.
Explain to me the Ethnic Cleansing of Kashmir valley, by wiping out the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist populations by the muslims was never deplored but every one had a hissy fit over the Bosnians.
Please explain to me the disappearence of 24 million Hindus from Pakistan during the years 1949-1987.
Explain to me why the Buddhist stautes in Afghanistan were recently blown up in this century (which just started in case we all forgot), by the Taliban which followed True Islam in its full monty.
Explain to me the erradication of Non-muslims in Indonesia.
Explain this biggie: Non-Islamic faiths are not allowed to be practiced in Saudi Arabia, yet muslims demand relgious freedom elsewhere.
Explain why every year when Hindus go on pilgrimage to Amarnath in Kashmir or Vashn Devi Temple, there are Islamic terrorists attacking old ladies, children and raping young girls (if they have finished with the senior citizens).
Explain to me the destruction of 170 temples in Paksitan, the year before the Bari Mosque was attacked and why no muslims protested.
Explain to me the passages in the Koran which clearly state to hunt down and kill Kafirs (that would be yours truly and damn proud to be one).
Explain to me the documentation "Attacks on Hindus and Sikhs in Pkaistan by the Muslim League: Report for Shri Gurudwara Prabhandak
Committee, 1948"
Explain to me: "The Rise of Mohammedian Power in India" by the Persian-Muslim Historian Farista. Several volume work.
Explain to me: "Sultan Mahmud Ghazni" by Algarh Muslim University and all the atrocities they state did happen.
Explain to me why I am not a human, simply because I am not a muslim and thus a Kafir.
Explain Aurangzeb, Tamur Lane, Mohammed Ghori, Shah Jahan, Aibak, Tughluq, Nizam Hyderbad, Tipu Sultan, etc etc etc.
Explain to me why the Nawab (muslim king) of Bengal created the Black hole of Calcutta, killing women and children of Britishers living in Bengal.
Explain Explain Explain and start doing your research. If not from a non-muslim sources, please use muslim ones and you will still see the truth, unless you also wish to be a Holocaust-denier.
Cheers
at July 27, 2005 12:31 AM
Ryan
I know a lot of moderate muslims. They have no trouble being friends with me even though I'm Christian. They have many Christian and even Jewish friends and they treat them with respect and honor.
TAQUIAH
The Quran is a very confusing document.It has a few violent parts (usually thought to be in self-defence by moderate muslims) and mostly peaceful parts. Anyone who lives according to the peaceful parts is a "moderate" muslim.
WELL TAKE OUT THE VIOLENT PARTS,AND THEN SEE HOW MUCH I LEFT
NOT ENOUGH TO BLOCK A TOILET
http://www.submission.nu/quran/index/qindex_stu.html#TT
According to the Valencia, Calif.-based company, it has supplied counterterrorist barricades to more than 160 U.S. embassies and consulates in 130-plus countries. In the United States alone, Delta has secured more than 110 federal buildings.
Not to protect themwelves from the likes of Catherine
They are there to stop terrorists who happen to be in the majority moderate muslims according to their friends and relatives
IS MICKEY HARRUM
Walt Disney World has installed high-security, anti-terrorist barricades similar to those protecting the White House, U.S. embassies and nuclear-waste depots.
Not to protect against Goofy and his friends
They are there to stop the Loony friends of MO
LOONY or Lunatic The word gains its stem from the Latin "luna" for moon, which denotes the traditional link made in folklore between madness and the phases of the moon.
A lunatic (colloquially: "loony") is commonly used term for a person who is mentally ill, dangerous, foolish or unpredictable, a condition once called lunacy.
Conditions all to commonly evident with Muslims(lunatics/loony's)
It is very fittng that Mosques(Islamic mental institutions that be renamed "lunatic asylums" or colloquially,"loony bins") have a crescent moon on top,as this is where all the Muslims(lunatics/loony's),congregate.
at July 27, 2005 12:54 AM
Ryan
I know a lot of moderate muslims. They have no trouble being friends with me even though I'm Christian. They have many Christian and even Jewish friends and they treat them with respect and honor.
TAQUIAH
The Quran is a very confusing document.It has a few violent parts (usually thought to be in self-defence by moderate muslims) and mostly peaceful parts. Anyone who lives according to the peaceful parts is a "moderate" muslim.
WELL TAKE OUT THE VIOLENT PARTS,AND THEN SEE HOW MUCH IS LEFT
NOT ENOUGH TO BLOCK A TOILET
http://www.submission.nu/quran/index/qindex_stu.html#TT
According to the Valencia, Calif.-based company, it has supplied counterterrorist barricades to more than 160 U.S. embassies and consulates in 130-plus countries. In the United States alone, Delta has secured more than 110 federal buildings.
Not to protect themwelves from the likes of Catherine
They are there to stop terrorists who happen to be in the majority moderate muslims according to their friends and relatives
IS MICKEY HARRUM
Walt Disney World has installed high-security, anti-terrorist barricades similar to those protecting the White House, U.S. embassies and nuclear-waste depots.
Not to protect against Goofy and his friends
They are there to stop the Loony friends of MO
LOONY or Lunatic The word gains its stem from the Latin "luna" for moon, which denotes the traditional link made in folklore between madness and the phases of the moon.
A lunatic (colloquially: "loony") is commonly used term for a person who is mentally ill, dangerous, foolish or unpredictable, a condition once called lunacy.
Conditions all to commonly evident with Muslims(lunatics/loony's)
It is very fittng that Mosques(Islamic mental institutions that be renamed "lunatic asylums" or colloquially,"loony bins") have a crescent moon on top,as this is where all the Muslims(lunatics/loony's),congregate.
at July 27, 2005 12:54 AM
OOOOOOPs
Posted by: shiva at July 27, 2005 12:56 AM
HERE ARE THE PEACFUL MULSUMS AT WORK???
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/007368.php#comments
July 26, 2005
Thailand: Buddhist decapitated
Jihad in Thailand update, featuring more action upon Qur'an 47:4 ("Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks..."). From the Herald Sun, with thanks to Fanabba:
THE Buddhist son of a police officer has been beheaded in restive Muslim-majority southern Thailand, while a former school director was shot dead, police said.
The severed head of Eakasak Visetsuwannaphum, 29, was discovered today in a fertiliser bag on the side of the road in Sai Buri district of Pattani, one of three southernmost provinces engulfed in violence that has claimed more than 820 lives in 19 months.
"Police, military and civilian officials and volunteers are still searching for the victim's body," police said in an official report.
The brutal slaying is the 11th decapitation since early June in Thailand's southernmost provinces bordering Malaysia.
Posted by Robert at July 26, 2005 06:23 AM
I DON'T NEED MORE DO YOU??
I WOULDN'T LET A KILLER,RAPEST LIVE IN MY HOUSE WILL ??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM HELP THE WORLD TO GET MEDEVIL ON THEM AMEN
at July 27, 2005 12:57 AM
Gorkhali:
All countries and religions have some degree of violent history. Is Christianity evil because of what the Spanish did to the natives in South America? Obviously not. What about pogroms against Jews? and the inquisition? and the Holocaust? Stalin wasn't exactly a nice guy either. Mussolini did a lot in the name of catholicism. Napoleon thought his divine revolution was enough to run a path of blood throughout Europe. I'm not even scrapping the surface of violent European/Christian history. During the Crusades, most of the Jews actually took the side of the Muslims because they were so scared of the Christians. The crusaders killed 20,000 Jews on the way to the Crusades and conducted another massacre when they got there.
On average, Jews were treated better in islamic societies than they were in Christian ones.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html
According to Jewish virtaul library, "Jewish communities in Arab and muslim lands fared better overall than those in Europe"
I'm not trying to make a "Christianity is evil" argument because that's not true. However, looking at how violent a nation's history is is not really an indication of anything. The world has a violent history in general and it's not only muslims who were part of it. The Japanese used suicide soldiers to create a path of blood and destruction throughout Asia in the 1930s and 1940s. Today, Japan is one of the most peaceful countries in the world. Perhaps, 50 or 100 years from today, the Middle East will be one of the safest parts of the world.
at July 27, 2005 1:28 AM
Ryan
To further your understanding of islam, you must understand two things.
First, the passages in the koran are not presented in the chronological order in which they were produced. They are jumbled up. Several great muslim scholars have worked out their versions of the chronological order. They are similar, but not identical.
Secondly, there is the concept of abrogation. Since the koran is the complete and perfect word of allah, the contradictions in the koran (and there are some) have to be understood in the chronological context. The principle of abrogation helps to do this. By this principle later verses supercede and replace the earlier verses. The commands having to do with defense and warfare are particularly subject to this principle, because Muhammud was in Mecca first and then Medina. The verses written in Medina command jihad warfare, and are much more violent than the earlier verses from Mecca.
See for yourself. Get a book that gives you the (or a) chronoligical order of the verses.
In the meantime, please refrain from trying to bait us with theories that have already been disproven. You can have some fun here, but if you try to do it at our expense, you will be misleading yourself as to OUR motives. I'm sorry to engage in this "lecture" but I do so in the sincere hope that you will continue to seek the truth. If you were raised in a christian, hindu or buddhist home, you will eventually grasp the essence.
Many of us have struggled with these truths, and their horrible implications, ourselves. We are not monsters. But we have come to understand that something terrible is going on in the world, and there is more at stake than an academic discussion that can be forgotten when we get tired of it. There is more at stake than your feelings, and whether you think we are mean, or racist, or imperialist, or Christian, or agnostic, or bigoted, or immoral, or close-minded, or redneck, or (what did that jerk call me yesterday?) whatever.
Before you judge yourself to be morally superior, please take a moment to answer the questions put to you hereinabove (now there's a lawyer word!).
I will ask you another two or four. Did you know that the police DO NOT HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT YOU? If you don't believe me, write back and I will give you the legal citation of the case out of Washington, D.C. In either event: If you can accept that concept, then ask yourself if you have the willingness to Kill someone for your beliefs? I want a definite answer here. Do you believe that you should not kill, or, in the alternative, do you believe that the relevant commandment refers only to the doing of murder? Do you believe that you have the right to defend yourself and your family with deadly force? Yes or No. I ask, because in the end that's what this is all about.
Posted by: texan at July 27, 2005 2:16 AM
[Hear me out before throwing stones]: The moderate Muslim is most despised in the majority of today's Islamic communities because they are cowards; afraid to stand up for their beliefs; they let their fellow Muslims do all the work; they weaken their creed, lose favor with Allah, and oppose the shaheed (martyrdom) which is required of them during times of war.
YEAH!!! LONG LIVE THE MODERATE MUSLIMS - MAYBE WITH THEM AROUND, WE STAND A FIGHTING CHANCE!
Posted by: JW gal at July 27, 2005 2:30 AM
[Hear me out before throwing stones]: The moderate Muslim is most despised in the majority of today's Islamic communities because they are cowards; afraid to stand up for their beliefs; they let their fellow Muslims do all the work; they weaken their creed, lose favor with Allah, and oppose the shaheed (martyrdom) which is required of them during times of war.
YEAH!!! LONG LIVE THE MODERATE MUSLIMS - MAYBE WITH THEM AROUND, WE STAND A FIGHTING CHANCE!
Posted by: JW gal at July 27, 2005 2:30 AM
Rayan,
Islam needs to be purged from the system. Either they will do it or we will be forced to do it to save our way of life. Islam needs to be next to facism and communism, in the dust bins of failed experiments.
Posted by: Sharku at July 27, 2005 2:58 AM
Ryan,
Islam has two tenets which you should be aware of when you listen to anything a muslim says, including their 'condemnations' of terrorism.
These Islamic doctrines are called taqiyya (deception and dissimulation) and kitman (concealment of malevolent intentions). You may google these two terms and read what the islamic scholars and sites say.
Islam too has two other tenets that forms the basis for all the Islamic Terrorist acts. These Islamic teachings incites and sanctions murder, mayhem and sedition.
What we do here is disclosure. The hate that you see here are in the teachings of Islam. Let Islam and the muslims speak for themselves:
MURDER AND MAYHEM:
Islam teaches that a non-muslim is "without sanctity", his "blood, possessions, and land" are free for the muslim to take.
Sheikh Abu Hamza, muslim cleric: "Murder, bank robbery and looting are legitimate weapons against the enemies of Islam."
SEDITION:
Islam seeks to replace our free democratic society with a totalitarian Islamic mullahtocracy.
Sheik Omar Bakri, muslim cleric: "The ultimate goal is the imposition of Sharia on Great Britain...Someday the black flag of Islam will fly over 10 Downing Street"
Omar Ahmed, chairman CAIR: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
Islam should be criminalised as a ideology that incites and sanctions murder, mayhem and sedition. And be banned from every civilized society.
at July 27, 2005 3:28 AM
I'm glad Ryan has come here. Everyone, take a good look at Ryan, and at that "Soccermom" who has come here recently, too. They are the majority. We are the minority.
They are the norm, the common, everyday Western person who has so thoroughly imbibed, digested and breathed in the prevailing PC culture of the West that it would take thousands of hours of re-education as well as major re-orientation (getting "out of the box" as they say) before they can begin to approach this issue of the Problem of Islam rationally.
I've seen some posters attempt a reasonable plea to Ryan to begin reading some good sources to get him up to speed. However, I seriously doubt that he can really read those sources. He will read, but it won't change his mind. It will just reinforce all the PC givens that are in his blood, in his marrow, infused in all his neurons by the predominant PC Zeitgeist that afflicts the modern post-WWII West.
Posted by: metaxy at July 27, 2005 4:26 AM
Ryan explain to me why today in this present world, I can choose to live safely in any Christian country and practice my faith without fear of persecution, and yet not be able to do so in the Middle East or any Muslim country because I am a Hindu.
Sure Christianity didn't have such a great history for a bit of history, but they admit it, and they try to improve and make amends. Unlike Islam, which boasts about the atrocities they commit, then try to deny, and then figure we'll forget about it.
Mother Teresa could not enter Bangladesh because it is an Islamic country, which clearly stated that they would kill her if she tried. Sounds like a bunch of peaceful hippies if you ask me, nothing to feel threatened by, right?
Islam is committing everything now, in the present, and has been for centuries.
Unless you wish to justify the eradication of my people, I suggest you start seeing the truth.
Many thought Hitler was fine and okay, until it was almost too late.
By reading your messages and Soccer-mom's, it is beginning to make me feel as if you would wish for all the atrocities being carried out against Hindus and Buddhists to be legitamised, instead of trying to put a stop to the injustice and genocide of my people.
-Ayo Gorkhali
Posted by: Gorkhali at July 27, 2005 6:32 AM
"Soccer-mom and Ryan" = Trolls.
Muhammedan Kitman and Taqiyya doctors....
The same freaks who posted under other names before...
Posted by: Terminator at July 27, 2005 6:50 AM
For the real face of "moderate muslims..."
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/20050726/cx_po_uc/po20050726
at July 27, 2005 9:33 AM
Ryan:
Since you seem convinced there are "good muslims" and "bad muslims," I would turn the question to you -- how do you propose to seperate the sheep from the goats? The bombers in London were, outwardly, members of that mythic group known as "patriotic British Muslims," right down to liking cricket and fish and chips. Until you can answer this one, with an actual answer, rather than some hand-wringing, pollyana-ish sentiment, I do not expect we actually have much to discuss.
You may not consent to what needs to be done. I, however, do not share your apparent consent to be blown up by one of your "good muslims."
Posted by: Cthulhu at July 27, 2005 9:43 AM
Is Christianity evil because of what the Spanish did to the natives in South America? Obviously not. What about pogroms against Jews? and the inquisition? and the Holocaust? Stalin wasn't exactly a nice guy either.
Now Stalin is a Christian?
Somebody needs to do a little remedial history class. Communists do not believe in any god except the state.
at July 27, 2005 11:49 AM
Ryan and Soccer-mom,
Afghanistan was a full part of the Hindu cradle up till the year 1000, and in political unity with India until Nadir Shah separated it in the 18th century. The mountain range in Eastern Afghanistan where the native Hindus were slaughtered, is still called the Hindu Kush (Persian: "Hindu Slaughter"). It is significant that one of the very few place-names on earth that reminds us not of the victory of the winners but rather of the slaughter of the losers, concerns a genocide of Hindus by the Muslims.
(source: Ayodhya and After - By Koenraad Elst - Voice of India SKU: INBK2650 p.278).
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Sita Ram Goel (1921- 2003) scholar, writer, publisher, the founder of Voice of India, an ‘intellectual’ Kshatriya’ par excellence, and a Hindu revivalist. Author of several books, including The Story of Islamic Imperialism, Defence of Hindu Society and History of Hindu-Christian Encounters.
He has written: "The cradle of Hindu culture on the eve of its Islamic invasion included what are at present the Sinkiang province of China, the Transoxiana region of Russia, the Seistan province of Iran and the sovereign states of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal and Bangladesh. The Islamic invasion commenced around 650 A.D., when a Muslim army secured a foothold in Seistan, and continued till the end of the eighteenth century, when the last Islamic crusader, Tipu Sultan, was overthrown by the British. Hordes of Arabs, Persians, Turks, and Afghans who had been successively inspired by the Theology of Islam poured in, in wave after wave, carrying fire and sword to every nook and corner of this vast area. In the process, Sinkiang, Transoxiana region, Seistan and Afghanistan became transformed into daru’l-IslÃm where all vestiges of the earlier culture were wiped out. The same spell has engulfed the areas which were parts of India till 1947 and have since become Pakistan and Bangladesh."
"Hindus were great temple builders because their pantheon was prolific in Gods and Goddesses and their society rich in schools and sects, each with its own way of worship. But by the time we come to the end of the invasion, we find that almost all these Hindu places of worship had either disappeared or were left in different stages of ruination."
(source: Hindu Temples: What Happened to Them - Volume 1 A Preliminary Survey - Sita Ram Goel - chapter Ten)
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Irfan Husain a freelance columnist from Pakistan has observed:
”While historical events should be judged in the context of their times, it cannot be denied that even in that bloody period of history, no mercy was shown to the Hindus unfortunate enough to be in the path of either the Arab conquerors of Sindh and south Punjab, or the Central Asians who swept in from Afghanistan.
The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes. Mahmud of Ghazni, Qutb-ud-Din Aibak, Balban, Mohammed bin Qasim, and Sultan Mohammad Tughlak, all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed. Indeed, the presence of Muslim historians on their various campaigns has ensured that the memory of their deeds will live long after they were buried.
Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster. Their temples were razed, their idols smashed, their women raped, their men killed or taken slaves. When Mahmud of Ghazni entered Somnath on one of his annual raids, he slaughtered all 50,000 inhabitants. Aibak killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands. The list of horrors is long and painful.
These conquerors justified their deeds by claiming it was their religious duty to smite non-believers. Cloaking themselves in the banner of Islam, they claimed they were fighting for their faith when, in reality, they were indulging in straightforward slaughter and pillage. When these warriors settled in India, they ruled as absolute despots over a cowed Hindu populace. For generations, their descendants took their martial superiority over their subjects for granted. "... And a substantial number of Pakistani Muslims are secretly convinced that they are inherently superior to the Hindus. One irony, of course, is that contrary to their wishful thinking, the vast majority of Muslims in the subcontinent have more Hindu blood in their veins than there is Arab, Afghan, Turkish or Persian blood. Many of the invaders took Hindu wives and concubines."
(source: Demons from the past - By Ifran Husain - dailytimes.com.pk)
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Sir Vidiadhar S. Naipaul (1932 - ) Nobel laureate, He is the author of several books including Beyond Belief: Islamic Excursions Among the Converted Peoples, Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey, and India: A Wounded Civilization. He has said: "India was wrecked and looted, not once but repeatedly by invaders with strong religious ideas, with a hatred of the religion of the people they were conquering. People read these accounts but they do not imaginatively understand the effects of conquest by an iconoclastic religion."
"India became the great land for Muslim adventurers and the peasantry bore this on their back, they were enslaved quite literally. It just went on like this from the 11th century onwards."
(source: Economic Times - http://www.economictimes.com/today/30poli04.htm).
Vidiadhar Naipaul summed up the situation well. He said, "In art and history books, people write of the Muslims "arriving" in India as though they came on a tourist bus and went away again. The Muslim view of their conquest is a truer one. They speak of the triumph of faith, the destruction of idols and temples, the loot, the casting away of locals as slaves."
(source: No comparison between Buddhas and Babri - Chao Mumbai.com).
“India has been a wounded civilization because of Islamic violence: Pakistanis know this; indeed they revel in it. It is only Indian Nehruvians like Romila Thapar who pretend that Islamic rule was benevolent. We should face facts: Islamic rule in India was at least as catastrophic as the later Christian rule. The Christians created massive poverty in what was a most prosperous country; the Muslims created a terrorized civilization out of what was the most creative culture that ever existed.”
(source: OutlookIndia.com, 15 November 1999 and http://www.indpride.com/vsnaipaul.html).
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Hindu Kush Mountains - " Slaughter of the Hindus "
Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists have also suffered a terrible holocaust, probably without parallel in human history. Take the Hindu Kush for instance, probably one of the biggest genocides of Hindus. There is practically no serious research ever done about it and no mention in history books. Yet the name Hindu Kush appears many times in the writings of Muslim chroniclers in 1333 AD. Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, said the name meant 'Hindu Killer,' a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers. Unlike the Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. 'However,' writes Hindu Kush specialist Srinandan Vyas, 'the number is easily likely to be in millions.'
Afghanistan was a full part of the Hindu cradle up till the year 1000, and in political unity with India until Nadir Shah separated it in the 18th century. The mountain range in Eastern Afghanistan where the native Hindus were slaughtered, is still called the Hindu Kush (Persian: "Hindu Slaughter").
(Note: To the Hindus, this mountain range was known as Paariyaatra Parvat. But when the last Hindu king of Kabul was killed Muslims ruled this land and then called these mountains the Hindu Kush -- "Slaughter of the Hindus" ).
It is significant that one of the very few place-names on earth that reminds us not of the victory of the winners but rather of the slaughter of the losers, concerns a genocide of Hindus by the Muslims.
A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. The Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Taimurlane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Taimurlane's army was about 100,000.
The Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian. Afghan historian Khondamir notes that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms '1,500,000 residents perished.' 'Thus, 'it is evident that the mountain range was named as Hindu Kush as a reminder to the future Hindu generations of the slaughter and slavery of Hindus during the Moslem conquests.'
(source: Where's India's holocaust museum? - By Francois Gautier - rediff.com).
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Negationism and the Muslim Conquests - by Francois Gautier
"Muslims invaders did record with glee their genocide on Hindus, because they felt all along that they were doing their duty; that killing, plundering, enslaving and razing temples was the work of God, Mohammed. Indeed, whether it was Mahmud of Ghazni (997-1030), who was no barbarian, although a Turk, and patronised art and literature, would recite a verse of the Koran every night after having razed temples and killed his quota of unbelievers; or Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388) who personally confirms that the destruction of Pagan temples was done out of piety and writes: "on the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders AND PRACTITIONERS of his abomination; I destroyed their idols temples and built mosques in their places".
(source: Negationism and the Muslim Conquests - by Francois Gautier).
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If Christians are facing their past. Even in religion class in Catholic schools in Belgium, we gave attention to the gruesome part in Church history. In Latin America, the 500th anniversary of Columbus' arrival has sparked some serious reconsideration both within and outside the Church, about the role of Christianity in the wholesale destruction of all the cultures without exception in the entire New World. But in India, we find the unbelievable situation, that not only Muslim historians and public figures refuse to face the truth about Muslim history : neutral secular historians are also covering up and denying the crimes which Islam has systematically committed, and even many Hindus are denying the crimes committed against their own society.
(source: Ayodhya and After - By Koenraad Elst).
I figure the last quote sums up my feelings about Islam.
-Ayo Gorkhali
Posted by: Gorkhali at July 27, 2005 1:32 PM
Thanks for your postings, Ayo. For those of you who may be wondering what does the massacre of over 80 million Hindus during the period 1000 AD to 1500 AD at the hands of Islamic jehadists have to do with the present day situation, I would like to quote a prominent historian, Will Durant, who wrote in his book, "The Story of Civilization":
"The Islamic invasion of India was probably the bloodiest story in history ... a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within."
This was certainly true during the times of the Islamic invasion in India in the period 1000-1500 AD. It, however, is just as true in the present day world. All the freedoms we take for granted can be lost in the twinkling of an eye if all of us do not act now. To all those who are islam apologists please, please, do yourselves a favor and actually read the Koran in its entirity. In it are the blueprints for the destruction of society as we know it.
Posted by: Razdan at July 27, 2005 2:52 PM
@Razdan:
Dear Razdan, I guess I should let people know in this forum that my name is not Ayo Gorkhali. It was really sweet and hillarious when you called me Ayo, but here is what it means.
I am a Gurkha (Rajput-Thakuri-Gurkha), and our war cry is Ayo Gorkhali, which basically translates to "Here come the Gurkhas".
Gurkhas are Hindu warriors of Nepal and are used in both India and Britain as the Elite forces. The British always say that when all else fails, call in the Gurkhas.
"Bravest of the brave,most generous of the generous,never had country more faithful friends than you."
Sir Ralph Turner (former officer in the 3rd Gurkha Rifles).
Carved on the London memorial to Britain's Gurkha soldier unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on December 3, 1997
Cheers.
-Ayo Gorkhali
Posted by: Gorkhali at July 27, 2005 8:32 PM
Dear "Ayo Gurkhali",
Sorry for the faux pas. I feel privileged to receive a response from a Gurkha. The bravery of Gurkha soldiers is well known. I dare say that it will be the Gurkhas who will eventually lead the war against the Islamists. Thank you once again for your detailed postings.
Posted by: Razdan at July 27, 2005 9:33 PM
Ryan
Islam will have to be destroyed.
HOW it will be destroyed, I don't know.
I and many others, will not allow the west to be Islamicised. Just not going to happen. If that means fighting on the streets in a fully fledged civil war, then so be it.
This is something which we have to play by ear.
To be honest, I've now reached the point where I see the murder of any muslims as a good thing. I would never hurt anyone, muslim or not, but if some-one else does it, I won't regret it.
I know that people will castigate me for that, but I don't have the energy or patience to be good to a group which is being bad to me and my fellow infidels.
Posted by: Voltaire at July 27, 2005 9:37 PM
A piece from VDH -
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton072605.html
at July 27, 2005 10:47 PM
Ryan
I have worked with muslims and the quiet (nice ones) keep out of any conflict, never critiscize when they see any kind of radical activity, like when a Catholic is asked by radicals to give an account of his faith, or when he tries to show them the Vaticans (former stance ) that we are connected in faith to Abraham, which they don't like to hear!
In my experience as a Roman Catholic I was made a target for violence, and was told repeatedly that Muslims will take over, when they do "You should worry because your the one who is clean shaven", one told me his name meant 'Ruler'and that he would be a 'ruler of men one day' .
That was a Luton crowd of pakistanis, who worked in Dunstable, and Luton is full of resentful muslims.
Ryan why don't you concern yourself with the plight of Christians who are oppressed in muslim states, and the obligation that Muslims in this country (UK and Europe) have in defending their HUMAN RIGHTS, it should be 'encumbent on all muslims' to see the good will they are freely given extended to christians in the countries they have come from, not like the Begum case where a spoilt brat takes the government and the people for a two million pound excursion of civil liberties then after winning the case she engages with other muslims who are disattisfied with their HUMAN RIGHTS and voicing it over the airwaves as though their is a public persecution of Muslims, the knock on effect is that Christians in Muslim countries suffer very badly.
at July 27, 2005 11:13 PM
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