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This is not the text of the fatwa that was issued today, but it is a "Declaration of Support and Action Against Terrorism" signed by numerous American Muslim leaders. I expect it is similar to the fatwa, although we shall see. From the Muslim American Society's site (thanks to David Ouellette), with my comments interspersed:
Declaration of Support and Action Against TerrorismWe, the undersigned, Imams and community leaders, are responding to the call made by the Muslim American Society to purge Islam, our community, and the issues we advocate from the stigma of terrorism.
As those who have firsthand experience as victims of terrorism and its repercussions (bigotry, Islamophobia, dehumanization) we are determined to lead our community out of anxiety and beyond condemnations. We will increase our efforts to immunize our community against extremism.
We reiterate that terrorist acts are utterly criminal, totally reprehensible, and absolutely un-Islamic. There can never be any excuse for the taking of innocent life, and terrorism has absolutely no sanction in Islam. Nor is there any justification whatsoever in our noble religion for such evil actions. Our message is unambiguous: the authors of terrorist attacks and bombings are criminals, and we should not accept their justifications, whether ideological, religious or political. Our position has been consistent; it is anchored on solid religious, moral, and civic grounds. The Qur’an clearly declares that killing an innocent person was tantamount to killing all mankind and likewise saving a single life was as if one had saved the life of all mankind. (The Qur’an, Al-Maidah 5:32) This is both a principle and a command.
Once again, this does not address the Islamic perspective that denies the existence of civilians as a category, or which declares that civilians in countries considered to be at war with Islam are not innocent.
We recognize we’ve got to work better at combating terrorism. We believe that a collaborate efforts on the part of our government, media, faith communities, and civic society can reduce the likelihood of terrorist acts.We are faced with a complex and dangerous phenomenon and a deadly vicious cycle perpetuated by people who are both fanatic/misguided and desperate, and others who are simply bigot. We need a comprehensive multifaceted approach/strategy and coordinated efforts to break this cycle and proactively and effectively combat terrorism. We recognize that injustices like erosion of civil liberties, backing of corrupt and oppressive regimes in the Muslim world, complete reliance on security and intelligence, shallow public relations efforts, and inflammatory/inciting statements in the media, by some religious leaders, or even public officials play well into the hands of extremists. And this too must be rejected. However, we are committed to be more vocal and more active in our attempt to isolate terrorists and terrorism, deny them recruits, sympathy, and any religious or political legitimacy.
All within our society should be united against terrorism and work together. Therefore, we call upon our government to address genuine grievances being exploited by the terrorists, engage the American Muslim community and leadership and moderate Islamic groups abroad, and aggressively promote human rights and democracy in the Muslim world. The media, for its part, needs to be more aware and objective in its coverage of Islam and Muslims. Islam-bashing fuels hatred and plays into the hands of terrorists.
I don't know what they mean by "Islam-bashing," but I suspect they would consider any discussion of how the jihadists use the Qur'an and Sunnah to justify their actions would fall into that category. If that is so, how can they hope to achieve genuine reform?
As Islamic religious leaders, we are well-positioned to fulfill the role of a goodwill bridge between our country and the greater Muslim world.We are determined to solidify the prevailing moderate and mainstream orientation of our community, and do whatever it takes to leave no chance for terrorists and their views to creep into our community, leaving no ambiguity when it comes to the Islamic position on terrorism.
They haven't done that yet.
We will intensify the personal development of our youth and inculcate in them the proper understanding of Islam, help them develop a genuine American Muslim identity and aid them in fulfilling their potential, keeping them from falling into the grasp of extremism and moral vice.We are determined to partner with people of faith and conscious in order to confront the problems that may possibly be alienating our youth, driving them towards a path of anger and desperation.
We will continue our efforts and collaborate with others to work towards a just and lasting peace in the world’s areas of conflict, and address the grievances that seem to nurture violence. We will vindicate the Islamic concepts that are abused by terrorists, and channel the frustration from domestic and foreign policies into active participation in national debates.
OK. Show us, please.
We will step up our outreach efforts in order to speed up the integration of our community, demystify Islam and Muslims, and deny the terrorists the opportunity to hijack our religion or speak on behalf of the one and a half billion Muslims worldwide.Finally, we reiterate our belief that nations and groups should maintain relationships on the basis of universal brotherhood, fairness, respect and mutual understanding, and that individuals should pursue their interests through civic engagement.
We call upon our community not to be beaten into retreat from its mission by current events. We must not remain withdrawn. We no longer have the luxury of simply complaining, even justifiably, that we are mistreated. Our mission is to preach the message of Islam courteously and wisely, to advocate justice, and enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, through engagement with society. Our central goal should be to put our grand values and principles into action and make a contribution, making a lasting impact on this nation and the World.
Their mission is to preach the message of Islam. I wish them well in their efforts to eradicate terrorism from Islam, but I wonder how much attachment to Sharia is contained in that message they wish to preach.
Posted by Robert at July 28, 2005 3:06 PM
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This "Declaration", and a warm bucket of spit, will get you a warm bucket of spit.
Why aren't they dragging the radical mullahs, imams and ayatollahs off their pulpits and into police stations?
Fancy words, when opposed by a suicide bombers spouting the VERY same words 'interpreted differently', mean nothing.
But their fruits ye shall know them.
And their 'fruits', thus far, are like puffballs.
You bite into them... and get a mouthful of dust.
Posted by: BigSleep![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 28, 2005 3:48 PM
Sorry, don't give a sh*t anymore.
Posted by: Voltaire at July 28, 2005 4:01 PM
Why aren't they dragging the radical mullahs, imams and ayatollahs off their pulpits and into police stations?
When they start doing that then their actions will follow their words and I'll pay more attention to them.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, way overdue, but until they start "dragging the radical mullahs, imams and ayatollahs off their pulpits and into police stations" we'll all be wondering how serious they really are.
Posted by: f.g. at July 28, 2005 4:05 PM
This is all very dangerous illusion.
at July 28, 2005 4:18 PM
I just heard, on NPR, the mellifluent Robert Siegel ask Reza Aslan, that thrusting young careerist and "interpreter" of Islam from the commanding heights of -- what? His 26 or 28 years as an American of Iranian descent, who knows all about Islam everywhere, and is an expert, self-described, on what it is like to grow up within the cozy world of Islam, that belief-system which, Reza Aslam assured Robert Siegel (who at no point challenged him) "this wonderful magnificent religion" had never in 1300 plus years ever supported or advocated "terrorism."
So there are no passages, none, in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, that would lead anyone to think that "terrorism" -- that is, striking terror into the hearts of the enemy, more exactly the Unbelievers, the Infidels -- is nowhere to be found in the canonical texts, and nowhere to be found in the behavior of Muslims when they attacked and conquered the lands of non-Muslims, or in their treatment of those non-Muslims once they had been subdued and subjugated.
Is that what Muslims wish to argue with a straight face? That there is nothing in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira about striking off the heads of Unbelievers, or of striking terror into the hearts of Unbelievers? Do they wish to argue that nowhere will one find, in the Hadith deemed most "authentic," statements and acts by Muhammad that indicate that "striking terror" is not only not impermissible, but actively encouraged, in Islam?
If they dare to suggest otherwise, we have at the ready -- all of us -- many passages in the Qur'an, many stories in the Hadith, many examples of "striking terror" all over the Sira -- which may be adduced.
Do Muslims in this country really want this issue to be raised, and debated? Because if they do, it will provide one more opening for more of the truth about Islam to come out.
Perhaps they think everyone will roll over in the NPR/Robert Siegel manner, brightly enquiring of some Reza-Aslan type what we should make of this "fatwa," which stays carefully away from adducing the passages in the canonical texts that Reza Aslan had the gall to assure us (perhaps assuming no one is going to bother to read the texts) are presented to support the assurance that Islam is against terror.
Go ahead. Provide us with those texts that show us, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Islam is, and always has been, "against terror." Then we will show you what passages we have found. Let the public be the judge. And let the public be the judge as well of the behavior of Muslim conquerors, and Muslims lording it over non-Muslims, from Spain to the East Indieas, over 1350 years.
Does Reza Aslan, do these groups and these so-called Muslim "intellectuals," think they can permanently hide the Muslim texts from a sufficient number of Infidels, forever? Are they crazy?
That question was purely rhetorical.
Posted by: Hugh at July 28, 2005 4:31 PM
I don't ask for much. To get my approbation, Muslims must do the following for starters they must:
1. repudiate Jihad;
2. repudiate the violent and antisocial passages of the Koran;
3. admit that Mohammed was not the worthy, perfect role model and come clean about his antisocial behaviors;
4. repudiate the concept of dhimmitude;
5. raise the status of women to that of equal to men and allow them the freedoms that men enjoy;
6. integrate into society -- don't say, do, or dress to differentiate them from the rest of society;
7. repudiate Sharia;
8. hold non-Muslims as equals to Muslims, eliminating disdain in which they hold them;
9. allow non-Muslim religions the same status and privilege as Islam;
10. ferret out and inform on those that are treasonous to their respective countries;
11. give allegiance to the countries in which they reside rather than to the Ummah.
The extended statement given above does not address any of these issues. I won't hold my breath.
Posted by: epg at July 28, 2005 4:41 PM
"Who waitith for dead man's shoes will go long barefoot."
-John Heywood(1497-1580)
at July 28, 2005 4:51 PM
EPG, Islam without those items would be a hamburger without meat.
Posted by: Yitzhak at July 28, 2005 4:58 PM
The Jihadists declared: "There can never be any excuse for the taking of innocent life..."
But the kuffar is not innocent in their view. This "declaration" could have been signed by any muslim, including bin Laden.
Posted by: Osmund Bindalen at July 28, 2005 5:37 PM
Hugh said: 'Reza Aslam assured Robert Siegel (who at no point challenged him) "this wonderful magnificent religion" had never in 1300 plus years ever supported or advocated "terrorism."'
Is this the same Robert Siegel I heard on NPR ask, 60 years after the Holocaust/Shoah, "Do we still really need Israel?"?
This fatwa contained these words:
"The Qur’an clearly declares that killing an innocent person was tantamount to killing all mankind and likewise saving a single life was as if one had saved the life of all mankind. (The Qur’an, Al-Maidah 5:32)"
Of course, if you read the full text of the Qur'anic quote here you'll see that this was an edict/threat that the Islamists dictated to the Jews; it was not meant to apply to Islamists, it was a warning to the kafirs. And in the next phrase, the Qur'an makes it clear that the kafirs didn't listen, thus justifying more violence against them.
It would be nice if their fatwa didn't include such obvious deceptions. I mean, c'mon guys, put a little effort into your lies and empty promises.
Posted by: special_guest at July 28, 2005 5:51 PM
Why aren't they dragging the radical mullahs, imams and ayatollahs off their pulpits and into police stations?
Fancy words, when opposed by a suicide bombers spouting the VERY same words 'interpreted differently', mean nothing.
Posted by: BigSleep at July 28, 2005 03:48 PM
Gold Star for you today!!!
THIS IS THE REAL q? WHY AREN'T THEY TURNING THE ONES WHO THEY KNOW ARE SENDING MONSTERS TO KILL AROUND THE WORLD THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE??
I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOW??
COULD IT HAVE BEEN THE MEETING AT THE UN LAST NIGHT??
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45479
Muslim nations throttle
U.N. terror resolution
Criticism of suicide bombers censored by global body's Islamic member states
Posted: July 28, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
Islamic United Nations representatives blocked an attempt to have the world body condemn killing in the name of religion.
The International Humanist and Ethical Union said it submitted the request to the U.N. Human Rights Commission in Geneva in response to moves by Islamic clerics to legitimize the current wave of terror attacks.
IHEU representative David Littman tried to deliver a prepared text in the names of three international NGOs – the Association for World Education, the Association of World Citizens and the IHEU – but was blocked by the "heavy-handed intervention" of Islamic representatives of the panel.
Littman said that after repeated interruptions, he was unable to complete his speech.
The Muslims members said they saw the text as an attack on Islam.
OH MY GUESS THEY THINK THEIR LIEING WILL WORK??
ONLY ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS??
AND I SEE THIS IS HOLEIER THAN SWISS CHEESE???
Qur’an 8:61 “But if the enemy inclines toward peace, do you (also) incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Should they intend to deceive or cheat you, verily Allah suffices: He strengthened you with His aid and with Believers.” [The small print is real important. “Should they intend to deceive or cheat” is an open invitation to invoke 8:57 to 60. The first to interpret this surah said:]
Ishaq:326 “If they ask you for peace on the basis of Islam (submission), make peace on that basis. Be of one mind by His religion.”
Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”
WHAT THEY TEACH
Ishaq:454 “Now that Allah has conferred Islam on us, and made us famous, shall we give them our property? By Allah, we will offer them only the sword until Allah judges between us.’ ‘As you wish,’ said Allah’s Messenger.”
THEY DEFy THEIR gods JUDGEMENT LOOK AT THE 67 WAR IN ISRAEL, ISRAEL DEFEATED 5 ARAB COUNTRIES AND LOOK AT IRAQ THE COLIATION [USA AND FRIENDS] HAS DEFETEDED saddan[yellow coward found in a hole don't shoot I’m a coward] LOOK AT WHO WAS DEFEATED IN AFHGAN ubl[yellow coward who runs away]
they defy their own book so they are to be cursed and their children children’s as well!!
Let’s not forget the pelage in Africa of Locus that is eating the land they killed Christians for??
WHEN I READ THIS IT LOOKS LIKE THAT GOD HAS CHOSEN THE WINNER AND IT AINT ISLAMIC TERRORIST OR THOSE WHO FLLOW THEM!!!
.” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
OH MY!!
Qur’an 9:68 “Allah has promised the Hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers the Fire of Hell for their abode: Therein shall they dwell. It will suffice them. On them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment, a lasting torment.”
LOOKS LIKE HE DIDN'T SEE THE FUTURE AFTER ALL DIDN'T SEE THE USA COMING??
Bukhari:V6B60N473 “Every created soul has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell Fire. His happy or miserable fate is predetermined for him.”
WHY IT WOULD MATTER??
Bukhari:V6B60N473 “While we were in a funeral procession, Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Every created soul has his place written for him either in Paradise or in Hell. They have a happy or miserable fate predestined for them.’ A man said, ‘Apostle! Shall we depend upon what is written and give up doing deeds? For whoever is destined to be fortunate, will join the fortunate and whoever is destined to be miserable will go to Hell.’”
WHY THEY SEND MONSTERS TO KILL IRAQIS AND THE IRAQIS JUST TAKE IT??
WELL WE WON'T TAKE IT ANY MORE??
Qur’an 22:52 “Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before you, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some vanity into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in.” [Another translation reads:] “He recited (the message) Satan proposed. But Allah abolishes that which Satan proposes.” [A third claims:] “Satan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which Satan casts,” [A fourth:] “whose recitations Satan tampered with, yet Allah abrogates what Satan interpolates; and Allah will confirm His Signs/Revelations.”
BETTER ASK WHAT THEIR SIGNS ARE???
Ishaq:461 “Muhammad besieged them for twenty-five nights. When the siege became too severe, Allah terrorized them. After the siege exhausted and terrorized them, the Jews felt certain that the Apostle would not leave them until he had exterminated them. So they decided to talk to Ka’b Asad. He said, ‘Jews, you see what has befallen you. I shall propose three alternatives. Take whichever one you please.’ He said, ‘Swear allegiance to Muhammad and accept him; for it has become clear to you that he is a prophet sent from Allah. It is he that you used to find mentioned in your scripture book. Then you will be secure in your lives, your property, your children, and your wives.’”
AINT WEARING NO BURKA GOING TO LIVE FREE!!!
Tabari VIII:30 “The Jews said, ‘We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur’an.’ Asad said, ‘Since you reject this proposal, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.’ The Jews replied, ‘Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?’”
SOME SICK F#$KS??
Ishaq:464 “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men. As they were being taken in small groups to the Prophet, they said to one another, ‘What do you think will be done to us?’ Someone said, ‘Do you not understand. On each occasion do you not see that the summoner never stops? He does not discharge anyone. And that those who are taken away do not come back. By God, it is death!’ The affair continued until the Messenger of Allah had finished with them all.”
WHY TOM T. IS RIGHT!!!
Qur’an 59:5 “The palm trees you cut down or left standing intact was by Allah’s dispensation so that He might disgrace the transgressors.”
ANOTHER LIE THEY TELL??
Qur’an 59:14 “The Jews will not unite and fight against you except from behind walls. They hate themselves. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense. Like those who recently preceded them [the Meccans at Badr], they [the Jews who were just sent into the desert to die] have tasted the evil result of their conduct. And for them a grievous punishment.”
THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO GET YOU TO GO BACK TO SLEEP BUT HOW CAN WITH THIS SNAKE IN YOUR BED??
STAY AWAKE!!!
Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’”
OH MY???
Bukhari:V4B55N546 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Gabriel has just now told me of the answer. If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble him, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her.’”
THIS IS WHAT THEY FOLLOW???
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
OH MY WHAT WILL THE LIB'S SAY ABOUT THIS??
Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]
OH MY??
Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”
NOW THAT AINT GOOD??
Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”
PRETTY CLEAR!!
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
PRETTY CLEAR!!!
Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’
AGAIN PRETTY CLEAR BUT THE MULSUMS FROM CAIR SAYS SOME THING DIFFERENT WHO YOU GOING TO BELIEVE GO GET A QURAN SEE THEIR LIES THEN PROTECT YOUR FAMILY!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
PS
http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html
VIDEO IN NYC OF CRAZY MULSUMS!!!
Posted by: Catherine at July 28, 2005 7:00 PM
just more and more and more islamofeces. time to muck out the stable.
Posted by: dms at July 28, 2005 7:14 PM
I am sorry if i sound like a broken record..
Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice (or more) shame on me...
I am sorry for being slightly sceptical about muslims but i really dont think osama and zarchawi will be crying out in shame to allah over this fatwa...
I dont think ANY muslims outside of the dumb ones in the USA are going to buy it either..
As a matter of fact i am SICK of FATWAS how about issuing one about Mohammed the perverted old child molester and psychopath so called prophet...
yea when Mohammed orders a Pork Chop...
at July 28, 2005 7:15 PM
dear muslims,
we tried, we really did, to accept and accomodate you but its just not working for either of us so please do both of us a favor and go back to where your religion is appreciated before all hell breaks loose and we destroy each other. i know this will probably fall on deaf ears but i had to try.
at July 28, 2005 8:00 PM
I will believe these so-called fatwas when one, just one, jihadi smacks his forehead and says "Whoa,we are wrong? I am outa here".
Posted by: Libraryguy at July 28, 2005 8:18 PM
"As those who have firsthand experience as victims of terrorism and its repercussions (bigotry, Islamophobia, dehumanization)"
Yep, their definition of "terrorism" is anything done to Muslims by the Jews or their agents to impede the spread of Islam. It's the poor little Muslims who are the real victims here, can't you stupid dhimmis see that?
at July 28, 2005 8:27 PM
Libraryguy, I like the 50 cal. shots at your site. I kinda think we should all own a 50 cal.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 9:40 PM
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 28, 2005 08:27 PM
Gold Star for you today!!
I kinda think we should all own a 50 cal.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 09:40 PM
me too!!
But I was playing with my desert egale last week-end and she is pretty good???
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
Shron was in Parias with Chri??
at July 28, 2005 10:55 PM
DEFINITIONS
Good Muslim: A Muslim that reads the Koran, and rejects all of its demonic teachings.
Bad Muslim: A Muslim that reads the Koran and blindly accepts its teachings.
Posted by: Farouk at July 28, 2005 11:05 PM
"...we reiterate our belief that nations and groups should maintain relationships on the basis of universal brotherhood, fairness, respect and mutual understanding, and that individuals should pursue their interests through civic engagement."
Get back to me on this one when the Pope is finished dedicating the new cathedral in mecca.
Oh yeah, I remember. Not Allowed. Tolerance flows only one direction in mohammedianism!
The darkness cannot compete with the LIGHT. So it hides it's thin weak self behind the sword.
mohammedianism can only exist, not prevail, not succeed, not triumph, but only exist where "virtue" can be enforced at gunpoint.
Virtue, the goal of religiosity on the path to a higher goal, is knowing right from wrong, and freely choosing right. Even when it hurts.
People who act virtuously because the penalty for apostacy is death are not virtuous. They are compliant. While that may satisfy the egos of the the robed tyrants who rule over them it does nothing to save their souls.
Posted by: Joseph of Carpentry at July 29, 2005 12:35 AM
Good post Joseph of Carpentry
Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 29, 2005 5:24 AM
Farouk:
Nice definition, but the demonic teachings really need to be expunged.
I haven't noticed posts from you, so if you are new to the site, welcome. I look forward to seeing more comments from you.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 29, 2005 8:49 AM
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