YAWN....

Posted by: jsla at July 28, 2005 5:22 PM

Blibbity blobbety .... blop blap blooop...

Posted by: jsla at July 28, 2005 5:23 PM

2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet [in Iraq, Afghanistan, and "Palestine", right?] and make mischief in the land [ie. shut down Islamic terrorist fundraising and imprison those who have been convicted of terrorism charges, right?], is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”

So, CAIR says that violence against infidels is haraam, while the Qur'an says that it is compulsory. Which one would a pious Muslim listen to?

Posted by: special_guest at July 28, 2005 5:33 PM

In comparison, the Geneva Conventions very carefully spell out who is and who is not a civilian. Something along those lines would be ideal.

But I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: Robert Crawford at July 28, 2005 5:52 PM

I happen to agree with jsla. This is nothing more than window dressing.

The naive will think this is an historic event, but the Islamocognitive know the real truth.

Posted by: Skeet Street at July 28, 2005 5:54 PM

This fatwa states in its 3rd paragraph:

"The Qur’an, Islam’s revealed text, states: "Whoever kills a person [unjustly... it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur’an, 5:32)"

What is left out in that ellipsis (...) is "unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land".

The 7/7 bombers were killing precisely to prevent the "spread of mischief in the land". They were thus acting in sincere and scrupulous regard for the Qu'ran. Therefore, this fatwa will be not only meaningless to the Jihadists -- it will be proof that these Muslim issuing the fatwa are in league with the Infidel (or at best they were practicing Taqiyya knowing their fatwa leaves the Jihadists untouched).

Posted by: metaxy at July 28, 2005 5:55 PM

I meant to add that the 7/7 bombers were also killing in response to the other justification in Qu'ran 5:32 -- murder: the murder that the evil West is perpetrating against Muslims.

Posted by: metaxy at July 28, 2005 5:56 PM

I'm waiting until they release the document in its entirety on Thursday. The big question in my mind is if they have finished it, why delay its release????

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 28, 2005 6:06 PM

WHAT TOOK SO LONG??

COULD THEY BE AFRIAD THEY HAVE GONE TO FAR WELL IS SAY STAY AWAKE YOU STILL HAVE SNAKES IN YOUR BED!!!

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

OH MY??

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”

OH MY??

Bukhari:V4B56N814 “There was a Christian who embraced Islam and he used to write the revelations for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again he used to say: ‘Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.’”

OH MY COULD THIS BE THE MATH THEY TALK ABOUT OH YEA PRYMIDS BUILT WAY BEFORE MO-HAM-OD??

Qur’an 3:54 “‘Lord, we believe in Your revelations [the Torah and Gospels] and follow this Apostle [Jesus]. Enroll us among the witnesses.’ But the Christians contrived a plot and Allah did the same; but Allah’s plot was the best.”

NOW THIS MAKE SINCE IF THEY BELIEVE IN THE END OF THE WORLD??

REMEMBER IN THIER BOOK IT SAYS TO BRING THIS ABOUT AND their god WILL CHOOSE WHO IS WORTHEY???

Bukhari:V4B55N657 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Isa (Jesus), the son of Mariam, will shortly descend amongst you Muslims and will judge mankind by the law of the Qur’an. He will break the cross and kill the swine [Jews] and there will be no Jizyah tax taken from non-Muslims. Money will be so abundant no one will accept it. So you may recite this Holy Verse: “Isa (Jesus) was just a human being before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he (Jesus) will be a witness against the Christians.”’”

NOW THIS IS A BIG SUPRIZE TO THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIAN THAT MULSUMS WOULD TEACH THIS AND THEN SAY SOMETHING ELES TO THEIR FACE??

Qur’an 4.171 “O people of the Book (Christians), do not be fanatical in your faith, and say nothing but the truth about Allah. The Messiah who is Isa (Jesus), son of Mariam, was only a messenger of Allah, nothing more. He bestowed His Word on Mariam and His Spirit. So believe in Allah and say not Trinity for Allah is one Ilah (God)…far be it from His Glory to beget a son.”

SO THEY HAVE BEEN LIEING??

Qur’an 61:14 “O Muslims! Be helpers of Allah: As Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, ‘Who will be my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?’ Said the disciples, ‘We are Allah’s helpers!’ Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious.”

WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT THE 67 WAR??

OH BUT THEY LIE TO THEIR PEOPLE SAD SAD AND MULSUMS IN THE WEST KNOW THE TRUTH IT IS THE MULSUM WORLD WHO LIVES IN HELL BECAUSE OF THEIR HATE YET INSTEAD OF TELLING THEIR PEOPLE THE TRUTH THEY MAKE WAR???

Qur’an 48:11 “The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.’ We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!”

THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE USING TO CALL TO FIGHT NOW!!

Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”

Ubl [yellow coward who runs away] USE THIS TO TAKE OUT THE WTC NOT SOME THING HE THOUGHT UP??

Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.

YEA RIGHT LOOK AT EVERY MULSUM COUNTRY A SHIT HOLE!!
” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”

PRETTY CLEAR TO ME??

Qur’an 47:21 “Were they to obey, showing their obedience in modest speech, after the matter (of preparation for Jihad) had been determined for them, it would have been better. Is it to be expected that if you were put in authority and given command that you would do mischief in the land and sever your ties of kinship. Such men are cursed by Allah. He has made them deaf, dumb and blind.”

AGAIN CLEAR WHAT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING??

Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”

THEY TEACH IF YOU AINT FIGHTING YOU IS A WHIMP GET IT??

Qur’an 4.:8 “Except those who are feeble—men, women and children—who cannot devise a plan nor have the means or power. These are those whom Allah is likely to forgive.”

SO WHY IS IT THAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST KILL IRAQI CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY ARE YELLOW COWARDS!!

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e., Jihad) you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you march, He will afflict and punish you with a painful torture, and put others in your place. But you cannot harm Him in the least.”

YEA more Islamic terrorist dead TODAY BY THE USA & NEW IRAQI ARMY NOW WHO IS ON GODS SIDE?
NOW I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THEY AINT FIGHTING FAIR AND THIS IS WHAT MOST IN THE WEST CAN'T GET THEIR HEADS AROUND??

BETTER TO LEARN TO FIGHT WITH STRENGTH AND WIN!!

Qur’an 9:45 “Only those ask for exemption (from Jihad) who believe not in Allah and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed to and fro. If they had intended to march out to fight, they would certainly have made some preparation and readied their equipment; but Allah was averse to their being sent forth; so He made them lag behind. ‘Sit you among those who sit.’ If they had marched with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) discord, spying and sowing sedition. There would have been some in your midst who would have listened to them. But Allah knows well those [peace-loving Muslims] who do wrong and are wicked.”

MAY BE WE NEED RINO SHE HAD NO PROBLEM WITH DAVID KORISH AND HIS CULT??

BURNED THEM TO THE GROWN AND THEN SAID BUT WE WERE PROTICTING THE CHILDREN??

Qur’an 9:48 “They had plotted sedition before, and upset matters for you until the Decree of Allah [to fight] became manifest, much to their disgust. Among them are many who say: ‘Grant me exemption to stay back at home (exempted from Jihad). And do not tempt me [with promises of booty].’ Have they not fallen into temptation already? Indeed, Hell surrounds them.”

WHO ARE THESE MONSTERS WHO SAY IT IS OKAY TO KILL IRAQI CHILDREN? FROM SAUIDI ARABIA EGYPT JORDAN PALESTINIANS, SYRIA, ENGLAND, FRANCE, GERMANY,? YES WESTERN MULSUMS WHO LIVE IN FREEDOM CHOOSE TO GO KILL IRAQI CHILDREN WHY????????

Qur’an 9:75 “Some of you made a deal with Allah, saying, ‘If You give us booty we shall pay You the tax.’ But when He gave them booty, they became greedy and refused to pay. As a consequence of breaking their promises, Allah filled their hearts with hypocrisy which will last forever.”

COULD THIS BE THE UN AND THE OIL FOR FOOD OR THE ARAB LEAGE WHO HOLD THE IRAQI PEOPLE PRISNOR TO THE YELLOW COWARDS?

Qur’an 9:77 “He punished them by putting hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day whereon they shall meet Him, because they lied to Allah and failed to perform as promised. Allah knows their secrets. Those who slander and taunt the believers who pay the zakat (for Allah’s Cause) voluntarily and throw ridicule on them, scoffing, Allah will throw back their taunts, and they shall have a painful doom. Whether you ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable). If you ask seventy times for their forgiveness Allah will not forgive them.”

THINK ABOUT ALL THE MONEY THE WEST PAYS TO MULSUMS BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY AND CAN'T GET OFF THEIR ASS AND WORK FOR THEM SELVES??

OH THATS RIGHT JIZZI TAX????

Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”

SAUDI ARABIA WHO WILL NOT COME TO THE AID OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE WHO FIGHTS THE YELLOW MONSTERS WHO CUT OFF AMERICANS HEADS AND IRAQI CHILDRENS HEADS BUT SUPPORT THE MONSTERS?
WHAT THEY TEACH DON'T FEEL SORRY SO IF WE HIT THEM??

Qur’an 9:85 “And let not their wealth or (following in) sons dazzle you or excite your admiration. Allah’s plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and to make sure their souls perish while they are unbelievers. When a surah comes down enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask you for exemption from Jihad. They prefer to be with (their women), who remain behind (at home). Their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.”

PRETTY CLEAR TO ME??
IF YOU AINT GOT THEM BUY THEM AND LOCK AND LOAD???

Qur’an 9:93 “The (complaint) is against those who claim exemption [from fighting] while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind (at home). Allah has sealed their hearts. They are content to be useless. Say: ‘Present no excuses: we shall not believe you.’ It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe. They will swear to you by Allah, when you return hoping that you might leave them alone. So turn away from them, for they are unclean, an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place, a fitting recompense for them.”

PRETTY CLEAR TO ME IF YOU AINT FIGHTING??

SO THIS IS WHY TAKEN THEM OUT FRIST IS SO IMPORTANT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD WAIT FOR A COUPLE OF MILLIN TO BE KILLED BY MULSUMS TO TAKE ACTION??
I THINK 3000 IN NYC WAS ENOUGH FOR ME TO DESTROY OUR ENEMY!!

Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. Some of the Bedouins look upon their payments (for Allah’s Cause) as a fine and wish disasters to fall on you (so that they might not have to pay). Yet on them be the disaster of evil.”

WHAT THEY USE TO BRAINWASH THEIR PEOPLE IF YOU SUFFER TO BAD IF YOU DON'T FIGHT YOU WILL SUFFER LOOK AT ALL MULSUM COUNTRY'S SH-T HOLES EVEN WITH ALL THAT MONEY WHY BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE....

PROBLEM IS THEY WILL NEVER JUST KEEP TO THIER SAND BOX AND THEY DON'T PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS AND KILL THE OTHER KIDS??

WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THESE MONSTERS KILL???
SHAME ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE WHERE WERE THEy ON THE 300,000 GRAVES OF saddam[yellow coward found in a hole don't shoot i'm a coward]THESE PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK BUNCH OF LIB'S!!!
WAKE UP PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN!!!

The truth about what Mulsums believe??
Read and learn about the peace they bring to your door??

Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”

Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad

Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”

THE BLOOD MONEY IS TO CRY NOW ABOUT THE SUICIDE BOMBERS WELL THEY ARE THE MONSTERS DO NOT CRY FOR THE KILLER CRY FOR THE VICTIM DID WE CRY FOR HITLER??
TORTURE:

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

READ IT AND WEEP FOR THOSE WHO THESE MONSTERS HAVE KILLED BY THEIR BOOK PEAR,BERG,JOHNSTON,HENSLEY,BISLEY,HEAGAN,AND THE LIST GOES ON MANY IRAQIS MEN FROM NEPAL FROM THE PHILLIPENS AND JAPAN AND HOW MANY IN OUR LANDS??

Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”

AGAIN THIS IS WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN AROUND THE WORLD!!

Bukhari:V4B52N260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”’

YES THEY WILL NOT LET THEM BE FREE??

Qur’an 48:27 “If the Muslims had not been there, We would have punished the unbelievers with a grievous torture.”

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

THIS MEANS WE CAN GIVE NO QUATER??

Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”

EXPLAINS ITS SELF

Tabari IX:6 “The chief sheep tender sent out spies to obtain intelligence. But they came back with their joints dislocated. When he asked what had happened, they said, ‘We saw white men on black horses. Before we could resist, we were struck as you see us now.”

THIS IS CAIR AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS THAT HAS BEEN SWADED BY THE MONEY OF TERRORIST??

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

SO TO THEM THE BOMBERS ARE DOING THIS
THIEVERY & SLAVERY:

Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

SO THEIR BOOK SAYS ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO SLAUTER THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR LAND

Tabari VII:64/Ishaq:307 “The Messenger of Allah gave orders concerning the contents of the camp which the people had collected, and it was all brought together. Among the Muslims, however, there was a difference of opinion concerning it. Those who had collected it said, ‘It is ours. Muhammad promised every man that he could keep the booty he took.’ Those who were fighting said, ‘If it had not been for us, you would not have taken it. We distracted the enemy from you so that you could take what you took.’ Those who were guarding the Prophet for fear the enemy would attack him said, ‘By Allah, you have no better right to it than we have. We wanted to kill the enemy when Allah gave us the opportunity and made them turn their backs, and we wanted to take property when there was no one to protect it; but we were afraid that the Meccans might attack the Prophet. We protected him so you have no better right to it than we have.’ When we quarreled about the booty we became very bad tempered. So Allah removed it from us and handed it over to His Messenger.”

SO HE WAS JUST GREEDY

Ishaq:307 “The ‘Spoils of War’ Surah came down from Allah to His Prophet concerning the distribution of the booty when the Muslims showed their evil nature. Allah took it out of their hands and gave it to the Apostle.”

SO MO-HAM-OD THOUGHT MULSUMS NOT AS TRUE FOLLOWERS??

Bukhari:V5B59N541 “When we conquered, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens.”

Tabari VIII:12 “When cities were conquered Muslims used to say, ‘Conquer for yourselves whatever seems good to you because all treasures were given to Muhammad.’”

Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.”

THIS IS WHY THEY GO TO FIGHT THE IRAQI PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WANT THER LANDS!!
PEACE, ISLAM STYLE:

Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.’”

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

WHO DO YOU TRUST??

Tabari VII:86 “Gabriel brought down the following verse to the Messenger: ‘If you apprehend treachery from any people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations).’ When Gabriel had finished delivering this verse, the Prophet said, ‘I fear the Banu Qaynuqa.’ It was on the basis of this verse that Muhammad advanced upon them.”

THE ARAB LEAGE,ubl,THE ZQUARI,AND ALL WHO TEACH THIS HATE AROUND THE WORLD

Tabari VII:158 “Judayy went to Abd Allah Ibn Ubayy to ask for support. He said, ‘I found him sitting among a number of his companions while the Prophet’s crier was calling men to arms. He said, ‘This is a clever trick of Muhammad’s.’ The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not kill them and that their property and their coats of mail would be his.”

Tabari VII:159 “The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir for fifteen days until he had reduced them to a state of utter exhaustion, so that they would give him what he wanted. The terms in which the Prophet made peace with the Jews were: he would not shed their blood, he would expel them from their lands and settlements, providing for every three of them a camel and a water-skin.”

Tabari VII:159 “The Prophet fought them until he made peace with them on condition that they evacuated Yathrib. He expelled them to Syria but allowed them to keep what their camels could carry, except for their coats of mail and weapons.”

THIS COULD BE HOPE BUT??

Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”

THIS IS WHAT THE MONSTERS ARE TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN

Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”

WHO ARE THE PAGANS??

Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”

WHEN THEY SEE OTHERS JOIN AGAINST THEM LIE LOW ? THIS TIME THE FIGHT WILL BE FINISHED!!

Qur’an 9:7 “How can there be a covenant between Allah and His Messenger and the disbelievers with whom you made a treaty near the sacred Mosque?”

Qur’an 9:8 “How (can there be such a treaty), seeing that they get an advantage, the upper hand over you? They do not pay you respect, or honor you or the ties of kinship or covenant. With (good words from) their mouths they entice you [out negotiate you], but their hearts are averse to you.”

AGAIN WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN!

Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”

AGAIN WHO ARE THE DISBELIEVERS??

Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.’”

YES THEY ARE SPREADIND IN THE WORLD CIAR, HUMAN RIGHTS?

NOW WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

SUPRIZED THAT NO ONE KNEW THE MOVIE DOCTOR STRANGE LOVE??

WAS JUST WATCHING THE 1ST PART OF LORD OF THE RINGS AND BOY I THINK HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MULSUM THINK ABOUT HOW THE EVIL HAS SPREAD UNDER OUR SIGHT WITHOUT SEEING HOW WE HAD FORGOTTEN THE OLD TIMES [WARS]

ANY WAY THEY WOULD BE HURT BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO HIT MORE TAN MECCA YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO HIT THE HOLY PLACES FOR THE SHIA AS WELL??

I AM TIRED OF THOSE WHO SAY WE WOULD JUST STIR UP THE HORNETS NEST WHAT DO THEY THINK IS GOING ON KNOW??

MOST OF THE MULSUM WORLD CANT LEAVE THEIR OWN SANDBOX??

AND THE ONES IN THE WEST THE PEOPLE CAN TAKE CARE OFIF THEY WANTA DANCE??

WAKE UP PEOPLE WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED ON YOU ARE YOU GOING TO FIGHT OR WHAT??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD SOME BALLS TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

PS
Remember how they always say it is gods will??

this means if you take out the big black box it will be gods will??

Posted by: Catherine at July 28, 2005 6:18 PM

An idea...

We know that terrorists use our freedoms and liberties against us. Why don't we use our legal system to our advantage and raise a legal challenge stating that the Koran is hate literature. We have enough quotations to demonstrate the religion is based on violence and is not compatible in a modern, civilised world. Let's let Muslims defend these statements in a court of OUR law. Let's expose this dealth cult for what it is once and for all. The world-wide media publicity would surely make MJ and OJ look smalltime.

Posted by: myiironu at July 28, 2005 6:29 PM

Trust is a valuable commodity, given generously by Americans. Islam has lost that trust and everything the Muslims say and do will be clouded with suspicion. That's just the way it works.

Now that the world is understanding taqiyya, kittman, tuqoque, and all the various ways that Muslims connive to deceive and mislead and eventually conquer the West, their statements ring hollow. Mohammed, who they believe is the perfect man, said it succinctly, "War is deceit."

It is sad that we have allowed so many Muslims to immigrate here. Who can we trust in their population? How can you tell? Stop all inbound Muslim immigration just to give us time to fully understand the danger.

Posted by: reset at July 28, 2005 6:38 PM

Muslims are really feeling the heat now and they will do or say anything to protect their investment in the West.

Taqqiya is starting up in earnest. Deception will go even as far as abrogating certain verses in the koran( but not in the Arabic version), to suit the sensibility of a particular Western audience.

The main problem is still this.

Let us consider the situation that all muslims at present living in the West, accepted the call to clean their communities of extremism. They even went further and made the changes in their teachings of the koran and the jihad. Such an outcome would no doubt come as a relief to many on this site. But I counter, that all such changes were being done merely to protect the ummah while it grows at ever increasing pace in the West. Once a near majority is achieved, that future generation of muslims will simply revoke any changes and return to the traditions of the koran. They will even praise this generation of muslims for having done what was necessary to protect islam.

If muslims had said and done these immediately after 9/11, one would have some cause for satisfaction. But this fatwa against terror is just a little too little and too late.

Posted by: DP111 at July 28, 2005 7:24 PM

Skeet Street,

I love Islamocognitive.

May I use it sometime?

all the best, Rebecca

Posted by: Rebecca JW at July 28, 2005 7:28 PM

I want to clarification on what their definition of "innocent" is. According to classical Islamic thought only those in dar-al-Islam/the house of Submission are considered "innocent". Those in dar-al-harb/the house of war are fair game. This fatwa is meant to pacify those in the dar-al-harb who are beginning to sense that something is amiss and say "business as usual" to jihadis.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 28, 2005 7:48 PM

DP111 - has hit the nail on the head. The evolutionary Muslims (the "Moderate" or Peaceful ones) have the same goal as the Revolutionary Muslims - to have Sharia rule the West.

If either group wins, it won't matter one bit to our children and grandkids, they will be persecuted infidels.

Islam is a cancer, be it "Moderate" or "fanatic". In my book there is NO difference. Look at the "Moderate" Muslims in the Balkins. They are now a hotbed of terrorists (which NATO helped to create by bombing the crap out of the Serbs - some thanks we gave them for being our allies in WW2, while the Balkin Muslims supported Hitler)

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at July 28, 2005 7:54 PM

myiironu - it won't do any good. Get a book called Mosques and Miricles (it is a Christian Book on Islam - a very realistic and scary one) it goes into detail about how Islamic oil money is used to influence our West, our uni's, our courts.

In Melbourne Australia (as seen on DW) two pastors were set up by a government body for basically doing what you suggest. They were convicted in court as criminals for telling the truth.

Meanwhile Islamic bookstores are allowed by the same government body, the Equal Opportunity Commission of Victoria - (under a Labor (left wing)Gov't) to sell books on how to kill, main and muder us infidels, why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to befriend the Jews and Christians, oh and also how to kill them.

Freedom of speech only is given to Muslims in Australia, not infidels. Oh the same government body in Victoria has also tolerated the hate speeches of various Mufti's in the Religion of Peace.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at July 28, 2005 7:59 PM

Remember, the key is what al-Azhar, the most prestigious Muslim seminary in the world, says or does. Until it issues fatwas against bin Laden, Zarqawi, al-Zarwahiri, Hamas and Hezbollah by name, (much as Khomeini did with Salman Rushdie), it doesn't matter what these domestic Muslim groups say or don't say (then again, you knew that).

Posted by: Joseph D'Hippolito at July 28, 2005 8:03 PM

Rebecca,

I would be honored. Thank you for noticing. :-)

Posted by: Skeet Street at July 28, 2005 8:10 PM

Joseph,

You gave me an idea: Al-Azhar (and other major Muslim bodies) should issue a DEATH FATWA, not just a toothless fatwa, against Jihadists.

That, and clarifying that this death fatwa relates to a proclamation that non-Muslims should NEVER be the object of violence in defense of Islam, period.

Posted by: metaxy at July 28, 2005 8:20 PM

Carolyn,

I think that you should realize that your Caps Lock is on.

Secondly, I don't think any of you people realize that everything that is written in the Qur'an, or any book for that matter, is to be taken in context.

Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion."

Wouldn't this prove that Muslims, by the Qur'an, are forbidden to force their religion upon others? It's happened, yes. But it has happened with almost evry other major religion.

I'm sure you all think that you are very smart, knowing something that the public doesn't know. That "the Muslims of America are desperately trying to hide." But the fact is, CAIR and the other groups are trying to convince people to research more about Islam. Most people who do so realize that Islam is no different in it's set of morals than Judaism or Christianity is. Then there are others who take things out of context, who take the words that could be used to mislead, and twist them into any sentence that you want.

The verses in the Qur'an that are frequently quoted in this site only show one verse. They don't show what was said before or after the verse. They don't state that at the time this verse was revealed, the Muslims were fighting a war for their survival against the Quraysh tribe.

Take things in context.

Posted by: Capulet at July 28, 2005 8:33 PM

Capulet, actually my cap lock is not on.
Have you ever heard of abrogation?
Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion." Later writings are not so peaceful.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 8:45 PM

A funny thing happened on the way to Afghanistan , Muslim leaders in Canada are so upset that Canadian soldiers are heading there to kill Taliban Jihadist they managed to get a personal meeting with the Prime Minister Paul Martin at a hotel conference room.
These Imams spewed the usual hollow rants of denouncing terrorism and suicide bombers as un-Islamic , yet they're offended at Canada protecting itself since Muslims cremated 24 Canadians in the 9/11/01 slaughter by the "Bomb to kill" mind set of Al-Qeada followers funded by the Saudis.

The meeting is tonight,but what better way for Al-Qaeda members like the "Khadr Klan Kids" (KKK) to get close to a leader of a "Christian Nation" to blow themselves up and kill other Muslims that will be seen as a plot by the CIA,Massad,Bush and the Christian-right .

It is a bit amazing that I was ordered to remit the money from a error on my 2002 tax form that is alleged to have been made and I must pay it first and then file for a review to dispute
this claim which has the onus on me to get an accountant to review the calculations and documents, yet while I'm left hanging in the breeze before the Government can help me, a group of hypersensitive Muslims get a meeting with the P.M. within 2 days of a complaint from the voters in Carolyn Parish's Liberal ridding.

It was just three days after the London subway attack that the Liberal Government met with a group that was on the "Banned terror Org.'s" , and today the Toronto Subway system was shut down for about 1 hour from a Al-Qaeda bomb threat and the Politician heading the TTC (Howard Moscoe)
laughed it off since terrorists don't bomb the transit systems at 10:30 am when its not very busy.
Howard is the same guy that claimed we were safe because terrorists had to find Toronto first before bombing our trains.

THESE are the yahoo's running our Country and this is exactly the same mind set for border security that's going to get allot of people killed.

Posted by: ala-sux at July 28, 2005 8:48 PM

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
Qur’an 8:15 “Believers, when you meet unbelieving infidels in battle while you are marching for war, never turn your backs to them. If any turns his back on such a day, unless it be in a stratagem of war, a maneuver to rally his side, he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge!”
Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

**Out of context again?**

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 8:48 PM

Islam is the religion of peace!

the Quraysh are now at peace.
hundreds of thousands of Hindus are now at peace.
in the last 1400 years millions have found peace at the hands of islam.
3000 New Yorkers are now at peace.
Israelies on a daily basis are finding peace.
Thousands in Dufar are finding peace.
Hundreds of Iraqis are finding peace every day.
And most recently 52 Londoners have found peace at the hands of muslims.

Posted by: Sharku at July 28, 2005 8:51 PM

regarding;

The Qur’an, Islam’s revealed text, states: "Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur’an, 5:32)

the actual verse, the muslims NEVER quote

005.032
YUSUFALI:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people:

and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Posted by: ploome at July 28, 2005 8:56 PM

I know I repeat myself, but here is...
All the Explanation Anyone Should Need

Muhammad:-
Hey people I am a prophet!

People: -
Where are your credentials?

Muhammad: -
Here is a letter that I have written that says I am a prophet.

People: -
But this is your own words.

Muhammad: -
No this is what Allah dictated and I wrote it.

People: -
How can we know you are not lying?

Muhammad: -
You are deaf, dumb and blind and you’ll burn in hellfire. 2.171. 6.39, 8.22. 17.97

Stupid people aka Muslims: -
Whoa! What a convincing argument! We believe.

Muhammad: -
Now let us go and raid merchant caravans.

Muslims: -
But isn’t stealing unethical?

Muhammad: -
No! Because you became poor after following me and are no more working, Allah has given you the right to lay hand on other people’s property. Also they oppressed you. You can kill them. Oppression is worse than killing 2:217 Now let us attack villages without warning and take the population by surprise while they are heedless and their cattle is being watered at places of water. We will kill their fighting men and take their women and children as captives. Remember that the prettiest of the captives is my share. [Bukhari 3.46.717 ]

Muslims: -
But isn’t raping married women sin?

Muhammad: -
No! Incidentally Allah sent me a verse this morning saying it is okay to have sex with your right hand possessions. 4:24 So rape them with clear conscience. But always remember that the prettiest captive belongs to Allah and his messenger. [Bukhari1.8.367]

Also from now on you don’t have to practice coitus interruptus. Go ahead and ejaculate inside your victims "for if any soul is predestined to exist, it will exist". [Bukhari 3.46.718 5.59.459 Abu Dawood 29.29.32.95 29.29.32.96]

Faith Freedom

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 8:56 PM

"Capulet, actually my cap lock is not on.
Have you ever heard of abrogation?
Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion." Later writings are not so peaceful.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 08:45 PM "

they invite you to islam, there is no compulsion, you resist, you die or pay the jizya and are subdued

but you are not compelled to convert

Posted by: ploome at July 28, 2005 9:00 PM

special quest query's, appropriately:

"So, CAIR says that violence against infidels is haraam, while the Qur'an says that it is compulsory. Which one would a pious Muslim listen to?"

Badda bing--the problem in a nutshell.

myiironu opines:

Let's let Muslims defend these (Qur'anic)statements in a court of OUR law.

A logical course of action, for whomever is willing and able to make that happen. Any attorneys in the house?

One of my favorite questions is:

What does a 'moderate' Muslim's Qur'an state that Usama bin Laden's doesn't?

Posted by: PRCS at July 28, 2005 9:01 PM

I have been wondering about that too, PRCS.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2005 9:30 PM

What does a 'moderate' Muslim's Qur'an state that Usama bin Laden's doesn't?
-- from a posting above

PCRS was merely asking a rhetorical question, but nonetheless the answer should be given yet again:

There is not a "moderate" version of the Qur'an.

There is not a "moderate" edition of the Hadith as collected and ranked according to putative authenticity by the most respected muhaddithin, Bukhari and Muslim.

There is not a "moderate" version of the Sira.

There is only one version of each. That is the one Bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri read, and so do hundreds of millions of Muslims in dar al-Islam, where they do not have to engage, or do not feel they have to engage, in the kind of sly taqiyya-and-kitman, and highly selective quotation of passages, with many telling yet unexplained ellipses in what they quote, of those Muslims in the dar al-Harb, and above all here in America, who today have given ample demonstration of their ability to misstate and mislead, all in the service of continuing to misinform and fool Infidels, as many as they can, for as long as they can, as they try to figure out how to do what may become impossible: to keep lying about the tenets and history of Islam, until they are so firmly entrenched that they cannot be dislodged. But they are far behind the Muslims in Europe, and we Americans are watching how those "entrenched" Muslims in Europe are behaving, as well as those in the Middle East. And there is nothing the Muslims in this country can do to keep us either from drawing certain conclusions from what we can so clearly observe (or from the ever-more frantic calls, from within Europe, for something to be done about the islamization of Europe and its peoples), or from studying, without the bowdlerized versions of the Qur'an (Michael Sells' preposterously dishonest "Approaching the Qur'an"), or without those "guides" who are in fact professors and members of MESA Nostra, and who generously offer their "services" to students and government officdials alike, akin to some smiling fellow who offers to take Western tourists, for the slightest of fees (and possibly just a little more at the end, please effendi?) through some Middle Eastern tourist attraction or trap, or through the souk, assuring us he has only one thing in mind, Effendi, to make your trip as authentic an experience as possible, effendi, as he carefuly steers you to the stalls where the owners have previously paid him off, bringing the Infidel tourist sheep to be well and truly sheared.

Posted by: Hugh at July 28, 2005 10:19 PM

Hugh writes:

"There is not a "moderate" version of the Qur'an."

That's true, of course, and therein lies both THE problem and THE solution.

The problem:

Language translations aside, thousands and thousands of American Muslims, from Seattle to Orlando, and New York to Los Angeles, and so many points in between, including children, convicts, school teachers, military chaplains, elected officials, etc., read the same chapters and verses from their own, personal Qur'ans as Usama bin Laden and Abu Musab al Zarqawi read from theirs. And, of course, most westerners have little factual knowledge of Islam.

From another thread above, the London Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, has asserted that "there is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist Muslim."

The commissioner has correctely stated the problem (Islamic fundamentalism), while simultaneously refusing to admit that it really is the problem.

Here's a clue, Ian:

Jerry Falwell and Usama bin Laden are both religious fundamentalists--with two primary differences between them.

1) The religion which each follows
2) If the bible contains murderous, seditious text (which I'm unaware of), Falwell has not acted upon that.

One of these two people will kill you in the name of their religion.

On the other hand, talk show host Laura Ingraham repeats, night after night, to her listening audience that the terrorists are practicing a "twisted, twisted version of Islam."

I suspect that neither of them knows anything about the Qur'an or Islam--and the folks they speak to aren't getting the truth from them.

The solution:

A high profile law suit (maybe London) in which Islamic fundamentalists are sued, by their victims, for crimes committed in compliance with the Qur'anic text and Islamic teachings known to every 'moderate' Muslim.

Posted by: PRCS at July 29, 2005 1:13 AM

Capulet, Ryan. 1a678, Mujaheddin Ibramsha, all the Muzzi trolls:

How about this:

10. Here is a statement from the Ayatollah Khomeini. Do you think that this statement, from a leading Shi’a theologian, misstates Islamic theology, and is simply one man’s view, or do you think that it correctly expresses a view that can be easily derived from a reading of Qur’an and the hadith contained, for example, in the “sahih” collections of Bukhari and Muslim?

“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.

But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world….Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies[. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we sould surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Porphet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

Posted by: Terminator at July 29, 2005 6:55 AM

"The Qur’an, Islam’s revealed text, states: "Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind." (Qur’an, 5:32)"

Any Old Testament scholars out there who think this little passage has a rather familiar ring to it? Seems to me that this is what is proclaimed of the Righteous Gentiles who have been recognized at Yad Vashim for saving Jews during the Holocaust.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 29, 2005 8:42 AM

They always quote 5:32. Note that 5:32 presents this particular teaching as having been given to the Jews. And 5:43 through 5:48 clearly provide that that each community (Jews, Christians, Muslims) should be true to the revelations that were given to that community by Allah.

Does 5:32 bind Muslims at all?

Posted by: Ben F at July 29, 2005 9:51 AM

waterdragon52:

As I just noted, Sura 5:32 states that this teaching was given by God to the Jews. While based on Gen. 4:10 (your brother's blood*s* cry out to me, signifying Abel as well as his descendants that now would never be born), its direct source is the Babylonian Talmud, in tractate Sanhedrin (the Court).

It is part of the instructions given to witnesses in capital cases, to emphasize the gravity of the testimony that they are about to give.

Posted by: Ben F at July 29, 2005 9:59 AM

Ben F:

Thanks for the info. As for your question, it would seem not much binds Muslims to anything as they have all sorts of exculpatory clauses to rely on to justify whatever.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 29, 2005 11:41 AM