No doubt, a preview of coming events.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at August 22, 2005 8:27 PM

Oh the glory of Islam, the religion of peace...

Moose

Posted by: Moose at August 22, 2005 8:38 PM

Unfortunately, that's what we're going to see all over Iraq if the Shari'a constitution gets pushed through, which I have very little doubt about.

Meanwhile, the folks at the White House should scratch their heads and ask themselves a question: how come those taleban-style governments took a foothold in so many Iraqi towns so easily. Are the Iraqi people truly aspiring to freedom and democracy or something quite different? What can we — and Muslims as well — do to change this mindset and modernize these people to enable them to live in harmony - or at least in peace - with the rest of the World?

The complete denial of the existence and the true scale of the jihadist sentiments will prove to be lethal one day.

-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org

Posted by: dolphin at August 22, 2005 9:01 PM

There is nothing i can say about this one...

Notice how they are training their children in these dispicable acts..

And i was worring about my kids playing to many violent video games...

We better wake up and FAST...

Posted by: jingoist at August 22, 2005 9:09 PM

Saddam was a fit leader for these lunatics.

As de Maistre noted:

"Every people gets the government it deserves."

And as Epictetus added:

"Only the educated are free."

And M.G. De Lornos concluded:

"A Constitution, in a very significant sense, is not a mechanism for making decisions but preventing them."

Posted by: BigSleep at August 22, 2005 9:52 PM

This only highlights the absurdity of our politicians saying "Islam is Peace" and that this "Religion of Peace" is compatible with Western Secular Democracy.

Of the 110 Muslim countries how many are democratic as we know it?? (that is they actually give freedom to women, and other religions). Two come close but have appalling human rights records. Indonesia and Turkey are the two. Both have a constant battle with True Islam. Islam is not peace, it is prison. As for Indonesia they have just let off the cleric responsible for the Bali bombings. He kills almost 100 people, and only gets a few months in jail for his troubles. Infidels in Indonesia get 20 years for smuggling pot.

Demcracy and Islam do not mix. When will our politicians wake up and smell what they are shovelling?

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at August 22, 2005 10:10 PM

Bigsleep-

I've heard this comment fairly often.
However, it ignores people like the journalist in Iran who is starving himself to death in protest against the Iranian government. Or the Iranian activist who was beaten to death by Iranian Security Forces, and the picture of whose bloodied, bruised, body I saw. Or Steven Vincent's female interpreter, who was well aware that her life was on the line for working with an infidel. Or the Iraqis who continue to join the army and police, knowing that they and their families will be targets. Or the Iraqi policeman who threw himself on a suicide bomber in order to save his fellow citizens. And so on.....

How many of us so comfortably and safely ensconced here in the US, would have the courage to speak out if we knew that we could be publically beheaded? How many of us would speak out if we knew that it meant the death of our children, or our parents?

I am willing to bet that the comments on Jihadwatch would be a h^ll of a lot more circumspect under those conditions.

**There are two races, the decent and the indecent** Victor Frankel

Posted by: treehugger at August 22, 2005 10:11 PM

This is what you get when the politician and the state department are allowed to have a say in the prosecution of a war. We have gotten so adverse to collateral damage that we resist doing what we should. While I abhor the loss of innocent life, one must realize that the potential loss of innocent life in this type of situation is caused by the terrorist hiding amongst the population, not by our attack upon the terrorists.

Posted by: R W Frog at August 22, 2005 10:48 PM

Posted by: treehugger at August 22, 2005 10:11 PM

Gold Star for you today!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY[FREEDOM] THO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE FOOLED BY THEM AMEN

PS
SAW SOME VIDEO TODAY OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ON THE RUN AND THEY HAD BLACK MASKS BUT LOOKED LIKE CHECHENS???

LEANING ON CHILDREN??

WAS IN IRAQ ??

Posted by: Catherine at August 22, 2005 10:54 PM

treehugger - I agree with your comments, and I too believe that their are many Muslims who want a peaceful government. But those very same Muslims cannot see that their own Muslim faith will hinder this free democratic government from developing.

Just the fact that there is NO Islamic democracy that is like any in North America, Europe, UK, or Australia/NZ, despite their being around 110 Islamic countries, shows that Islam and democracy don't mix.

Those soldiers of ours in Iraq are dying for a utopian idea, that cannot exist.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at August 22, 2005 10:54 PM

Bombing in Baruit an attack on Christian??

This was expected because of the FAT GUY FROM BRITIAN??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER AMEN

PS
REMEMBER A GUN IN HAND IS BETTER THAN 2 COPS ON THE PHONE

WHAT IS CHINA DOING IN AFRICA??

Posted by: Catherine at August 22, 2005 10:59 PM

"Inside 9/11" a two part documentary(2 hours each)now showing on the National Geographic channel.
No liberal bias,no islamic appoligists,just the facts.
I`m crying again,just like i did on that infamous day,watching it.
This documentary whould be seen by all americans.
THIS IS WHY WE FIGHT!

Posted by: adela at August 22, 2005 11:39 PM

treehugger, I agree with your comments entirely. I am a jihadwatch fan but the comments of some people on this site boggle my mind. I think it is safe to say that most of us here agree that Islam is not a religion of peace. However, what I can't say is what you people are advocating as a tactic to fight the war on Islamist terrorism. Most of you seem to be against the war in Iraq because you believe that spreading democracy to a muslim population is futile. You also are not part of the looney-left who argue that our western imperialism, exploitation and support for Israel is the 'root-cause' of terrorism. You are stuck in a strange middle, simply advocating western society awareness to the jihadist threat. You don't suggest anything other than awareness. Although awareness is incredibly important for resolve, both political and military, it does not offer a tactic to fight the jihadists. You advocate an offensive and agressive military posture yet you warn about spreading democracy in the middle-east. What would you do? You put down the Bush doctrine of reforming the middle-east at every turn. Pessimism never eludes you when discussing what is happening in Iraq. What are your ideas? Isolating the west and ridding it of islamist elements? Let the middle-east rot on its own? Don't intervene just create an isolated western culture beside a barbaric one? That is the most anti-western solution I've ever heard. Wake up people...stop crying about awareness and start defending a strategy!

Posted by: CyberJaak at August 23, 2005 12:27 AM

CyberJakk, I've been reading here and posting only rarely for nearly 2 years. There have been many good ideas to spring from this site. The west is seperate because we will never lower what we are to become beheaders of anyone. Maybe we are meant to be seperate and apart from this vile thing. Sorry to bust up anyones line of thought, but just maybe this site has been an eyeopener for thousands of us. I know it has been for me. If people are not aware of the dangers they can't take action. Because of everyone here we know what's going on and that is worth a million.

Posted by: fox1 at August 23, 2005 1:06 AM

That is the most anti-western solution I've ever heard. Wake up people...stop crying about awareness and start defending a strategy!

Posted by: CyberJaak at August 23, 2005 12:27 AM

NOW THAT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

Gold Star for you today!!

This game has high stakes and like in WW2 many are still hiding their heads in the sand I ALWAYS SAY THAT WILL ONLY GET YOUR BUTT SHOOT OFF!!

THERE AINT NO WHERE ELSE TO RUN HAVE TO TAKE A STAND AND FIGHT!!

And Fighting those who fight is no way to win and the Enemy knows this!!

Like the Song People have Forgotten that day when Islamic terrorist who were among us here in the USA ATTACKED this GREAT Country and Her people that the Seas no longer keep us safe we have let in the enemy??

I can see how they are worried that our leaders don't see this?

But running and not finnishing the job will for sure make things worse and things they do not see is that WE ARE WINNING WE ARE KILLING ISLAMIC TERRORIST!!

THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO DROP BIG BOMBS BECAUSE THEY STILL FEEL SOMEWHAT SAFE???

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY[FREEDOM] TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPORT THEM AMEN

PS
If Mr. Spencer is have a problem with the comments maybe we can do like the Minutemen and someone here who can do it Mon. the comment line for him??

Posted by: Catherine at August 23, 2005 1:08 AM

Catherine, I agree with you. This is our last stand. God give us the strength and the will to see it all the way to victory.

Posted by: fox1 at August 23, 2005 1:23 AM

treehugger-

I WAS speaking specifically to the festering town of Haditha involved in this article, not Iraq in general (or Iran, at all) but if you want to broaden it to other comparisons, fine.

Starving yourself to prove anything in Iran is like trying to feed cultured pearls to uncultured pigs.

Just get the hell out of Dodge (Tehran) and work from the safety of freedom.

Or die trying.

The ayatollahs and mullahs and imams there are psychotic. (Koran-oholics.)

All you prove to them by staying (to "fight by their rules") is that you are a complete sacrificial sucker.

In Baghdad-

The Iraqis surely know who the "insurgents" are. (Everybody is somebody's cousin, and they all are aware of who is supposed to be in what neighborhood, as very clannish and tribal people tend to.) And the police and Iraqi national guardsmen surely, by now, know how to wear guns and shoot back rather than be led off to be beheaded. (Better to go down killing those attacking you than marching meekly away to your dismal death.)

And they should also know that to 'allow' vehicles (potentially with bombs) onto streets where you are LINING UP FOR RECRUITMENT TO BE A COP is pretty damned stupid. Or not frisking "potential recruits" before they are permitted to join a long line of job-seekers (and blow themselves and their beighbors to bits) isnt the swiftest of strategies.

There doesn't seem to be much a of self-preservational learning curve going on.

Are they that fatalistic, INSHALLAH?

If they don't get some stronger instincts, they won't be able to defend their weak new state.

And if the people are not educated in anything but the brainwash of the Koran, there's little hope for anything but jihadist numbskulls (or wannabes) regurgitating sick suras as a result.

We need to contain them, send in Radio Free World, donate CD's, videos, books, etc., and hope a little of the sense of the Western Enlightenment, from Socrates to Vicktor "From Death Camp To Existentialism" Frankl, seeps between the cracks of the Sharia prison bars.

It'll take time.

CyberJack-

Meanwhile, we need to keep killing the terrorists, whether in Haditha or Jakarta, Islamabad or Fez. Since they sure as hell aren't going to relent in their drive toward the Caliphate Hallucination.

The president and his crew need to take off the oil-soaked blinders and start naming names.

Jihadis. Wahhabis. Saudis. Arab "princes".

And say what we are NOT willing to stand for:

-Saudis shredding Bibles in Mecca while their payrolled flunkies at U.S.A. CAIR bleat about swearing on the Koran during depositions in North Carolina courts.

-Contempt for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that Islamic Laws enshrine.

-Coddling those who come to kill you is about as bright as apologizing for guards touching the 'holy' Koran in a prison... when there should be nothing from the captured terrorists to read at Gitmo but the label on their Government Issue skivvies saying: "Property of the U.S. Ar,med Forces".

Period.

Posted by: BigSleep at August 23, 2005 2:23 AM

treehugger-

I WAS speaking specifically to the festering town of Haditha involved in this article, not Iraq in general (or Iran, at all) but if you want to broaden it to other comparisons, fine.

Starving yourself to prove anything in Iran is like trying to feed cultured pearls to uncultured pigs.

Just get the hell out of Dodge (Tehran) and work from the safety of freedom.

Or die trying.

The ayatollahs and mullahs and imams there are psychotic. (Koran-oholics.)

All you prove to them by staying (to "fight by their rules") is that you are a complete sacrificial sucker.

In Baghdad-

The Iraqis surely know who the "insurgents" are. (Everybody is somebody's cousin, and they all are aware of who is supposed to be in what neighborhood, as very clannish and tribal people tend to.) And the police and Iraqi national guardsmen surely, by now, know how to wear guns and shoot back rather than be led off to be beheaded. (Better to go down killing those attacking you than marching meekly away to your dismal death.)

And they should also know that to 'allow' vehicles (potentially with bombs) onto streets where you are LINING UP FOR RECRUITMENT TO BE A COP is pretty damned stupid. Or not frisking "potential recruits" before they are permitted to join a long line of job-seekers (and blow themselves and their beighbors to bits) isnt the swiftest of strategies.

There doesn't seem to be much a of self-preservational learning curve going on.

Are they that fatalistic, INSHALLAH?

If they don't get some stronger instincts, they won't be able to defend their weak new state.

And if the people are not educated in anything but the brainwash of the Koran, there's little hope for anything but jihadist numbskulls (or wannabes) regurgitating sick suras as a result.

We need to contain them, send in Radio Free World, donate CD's, videos, books, etc., and hope a little of the sense of the Western Enlightenment, from Socrates to Vicktor "From Death Camp To Existentialism" Frankl, seeps between the cracks of the Sharia prison bars.

It'll take time.

CyberJack-

Meanwhile, we need to keep killing the terrorists, whether in Haditha or Jakarta, Islamabad or Fez. Since they sure as hell aren't going to relent in their drive toward the Caliphate Hallucination.

The president and his crew need to take off the oil-soaked blinders and start naming names.

Jihadis. Wahhabis. Saudis. Arab "princes".

And say what we are NOT willing to stand for:

-Saudis shredding Bibles in Mecca while their payrolled flunkies at U.S.A. CAIR bleat about swearing on the Koran during depositions in North Carolina courts.

-Contempt for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that Islamic Laws enshrine.

-Coddling those who come to kill you is about as bright as apologizing for guards touching the 'holy' Koran in a prison... when there should be nothing for the captured terrorists to read at Gitmo but the label on their Government Issue skivvies saying: "Property of the U.S. Armed Forces".

Period.

Posted by: BigSleep at August 23, 2005 2:26 AM

Somehow removing a last stray comma from "Armed" (Forces) got two postings?

One final thought:

"Battle: A method of untying with the teeth of a political knot that would not yield to the tongue."
-Ambrose Bierce.

Posted by: BigSleep at August 23, 2005 2:48 AM

treehugger said "How many of us so comfortably and safely ensconced here in the US, would have the courage to speak out if we knew that we could be publically beheaded? How many of us would speak out if we knew that it meant the death of our children, or our parents?"

But the point is that we know we will not be publically beheaded, because our society is built on values of justice, equality, freedom, etc. Maybe we don't always live up to those values, but at least we get it right to the point that we don't murder each other in the name of religion.

The point is that the Islamic nations are built on values that support brutality in the name of religion. The Qur'an is the only law that exists, and to criticize it means death. The Taliban in Afghanistan was not some aberrant version of Islam, it was the perfect example of what the ideal Islamic nation would look like.

Posted by: special_guest at August 23, 2005 2:56 AM

CyberJaak said "Most of you seem to be against the war in Iraq because you believe that spreading democracy to a muslim population is futile."

Someone used the following analogy about Iraq: It's as if after Pearl Harbor we declared war on Mexico and invaded it. That may be an overstatement, but Iraq was not the center of the jihad movement, and it was not a war that needed to be fought at that moment, based on the intelligence we had at that time and what we've learned since.

As for democracy vs. Islam, several JW articles have quoted Islamic clerics proclaiming that democracy (ie. the law of man) is incompatible with sharia (ie. the law of Allah). I'll take their word for it, they are the experts.

As for having a strategy, pay better attention, mate. Hugh has posted several excellent articles about what is probably the best way to take the wind out of the jihadists sails: weaning ourselves off the Islamic oil. Another often-discussed strategy is limiting immigration of Islamists. Another is to actually punish those who are convicted of jihad (I'm thinking of the cleric in Indonesia who was sentenced to 7 months for participating in mass murder).

As for military action, I can only say that before WW2, it would have been idiotically idealistic to try to spread democracy and freedom to Japan or Germany. Afterwards, they became two of our strongest and most stable allies. What will it take to allow democracy to flourish in the Middle East? It'll take a h*ll of alot more than killing a few hundred secular Baathists in Iraq, that much is clear now even to die-hard Bushies. And it will take more than unilateral action by the U.S.

I do share your interest in taking the next step beyond becoming aware of what Islam is. But most of the world is still at step 1. Be patient with them, and help them along. Building consensus is another important strategy.

Posted by: special_guest at August 23, 2005 3:23 AM

Haditha was part of the recent forward operation to secure the Anbar Province this month. There are several phases to the operation. I don't know where we are right now. Bill Riggio at the Fourth Rail blog gives a lot of insight/info into the military missions going on. There have been several posts about Haditha and the Anbar Offensive activities. The main post can be found here for some general insight (would need to search his blog for the other articles):

http://billroggio.com/archives/2005/08/the_anbar_campa.php
Anbar Campaign

This will take time to clean up the insurgents and get Iraqi forces to hold the towns; but, we are definately on the move to clean up insurgent strongholds.

Support the troops and they will complete the mission.

Posted by: Frogg at August 23, 2005 3:35 AM

special guest;

"perfect example..."

Exactly.

CyberJaak;

"advovating...awareness.."

Good point. But I think the impression that we are stuck(or stubbornly banging away) at advocating awareness is less our lack of a plan than it is our understanding that said awareness is the critical 1st step, and our understanding that it is a step, in reality, not yet achieved. It is the accomplishment of that first step, or current lack there of, that keeps us treading water. Broad awareness is neccessary 1st so that, being the democracy we are, all voices, now hopefully informed can contribute to the discussion and construction of the strategy. Until that time, we push for awareness, knowing full well that the clock is ticking. I think it is safe to say that the gang here doesn't restrict our efforts to "preaching to the choir" here at JW/DW, but use this as a resource for our efforts where we live. Personally, I don't let a day go by where I don't engage someone in a discussion on the dangers facing the West.

This brings up a thought I had yesterday that I was going to pose to Hugh, but I'll pose it here for all and you are welcome to take the first shot at it. A straightforward question.

How do we deal with an absolutist threat, without resorting to absolutist remedies? Can we?

Posted by: t-ham at August 23, 2005 10:30 AM

Al Qaeda tried to break our will on September 11, 2001 as they believed we were weak and afraid to fight. But they misjudged the character and spirit of this nation. We will hunt them down and destroy their sanctuaries, one by one. Our success over the course of three years has been astonishing in light of the opposition we have encountered in the international community. We have liberated two nations, Afghanistan, the home of al Qaeda, and Iraq, one of the most oppressive fascist states in the Middle East. We have eliminated 75% of al Qaeda's pre 9-11 leadership, and have captured the operational masterminds of this attack. We are hunting al Qaeda cells in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, in North and South America, in Australia, Russia and elsewhere. It will be a long struggle, much like the Cold War, except against an enemy more cruel and elusive that operates outside of the rule of laws, nations and humanity.

Some say those that point out the dangers we face are practicing the politics of fear. They are wrong, and they are only listening to half of the message. It is very important for us to identify our enemy and maintain due diligence. But we must commit to building a better world for our children. We must make the sacrifices needed to change the culture of death and violence that exists in the Islamic world, just as our forefathers sacrificed to defeat fascism and Communism. This is a message of hope, not fear; hope that our children and the children of families throughout the world can look forward to a future of peace, not one of suicide bombers, school hostage situations and the potential release of nuclear weapons. We must fight with all of our strength to prevent another 9-11 from occurring here, using all the tools available: our economy, diplomacy, military, and culture. It is our duty as Americans. It is our debt to those who died on this fateful day and those who died fighting our enemies thereafter. We must not dishonor their memories by ceding the field of battle to the forces of evil

I REMEMBER AND WILL NOT REST UNTIL WE HAVE DESTROYED THIS ENEMY!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Let Not the World be Decieved by them Amen

Posted by: Catherine at August 23, 2005 2:56 PM

forgot the link?

http://billroggio.com/archives/911/index.php

READ TE WHOLE THING!!! AND REMEMBER!!

GOD BLESS THE COUNTRY WHO HAS HEROS AMEN
pity the country who needs them not!!

Posted by: Catherine at August 23, 2005 3:51 PM

special_guest wrote:

"The Taliban in Afghanistan was not some aberrant version of Islam, it was the perfect example of what the ideal Islamic nation would look like."

He knows that. I know that. And plenty of JW/DW readers know that.

The trick is to get the MSM to know it. And for GWB and Condi to know it. And Prime Minister's Howard and Blair. And our neighbors, and co-workers, and friends.

Keep writing those emails, and dropping those business cards, and distributing flyers.

Make them THINK.

Posted by: PRCS at August 23, 2005 11:03 PM

Let me throughout the sad conclusion that I have come to believe is inevitable - at some point in the next 20 years, the West will need to pursue a 21st century "final solution" against the Muslim world. We are dealing with a "defective" group of peoples and the only realistic solution (and this seriously bums me out that i've come to believe this) is for us to exterminate the entire muslim peoples. All 2 billion of them.

Beware and enraged western democracy.....

Alfred Gubfenstuppen

Posted by: Alfred G at August 24, 2005 2:08 AM