We hear very little about the Christian 'Palestinians'. Does anyone know how many there are?

Posted by: Sebastien at September 5, 2005 8:14 AM

Now they reap the harvest they sowed.
Edward Said, Hanan Ashrawi, Diana Buttu et al all vocal for this `palestinian rights` humbug and now the just dessert.

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 5, 2005 8:18 AM

Sebastien
The flippant answer is a lot less than there were.
The BBC reported in 2001 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1727060.stm that "two generations ago Palestinian Christians made up 15% of the population, they now comprise only 2%.
Only 150,000 Christians remain in Israel and the Palestinian territories.
In contrast, more than 200,000 Palestinian Christians live abroad - in North and South America, in Europe, in Australia, in other parts of the Middle East."
This will have widened in 4 years. When my husband and I visited Nazareth in 1992 it was described to us as a Christian town. I do wonder what the situation is now.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 5, 2005 9:06 AM

My Christian brothers in Palestine are being slaughtered and massacred and humiliated!

Time to go and strap a bomb to myself and kill as many muslims as I can find in Australia.

Whoever perpetrated this outrage against my Christian brothers in Palestine are muslims so any muslims I can find in Australia must be equally responsible.

That is the accepted line of reasoning....... is it not?

Wonder if Noam Chomsky would call me a freedom fighter?

Posted by: Anthony at September 5, 2005 9:07 AM

Sebastien:

There are about a million Arabs in Israel, of which some 100,000 are Christian. It's reasonable to assume that this ratio holds true in the West Bank as well (though not in Gaza, which is almost all Muslim).

Estimates of the West Bank population vary between 2-3 million. That suggests that there are anywhere between 200,000-300,000 Christians in that area.

Almost all these Christians are Arab. A tiny sliver are Armenians. There are also a few members of the Assyrian-Chaldean churches who do not define themselves as Arabs.

Most of the Arab Christians are members of the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches. There are also some Latin-rite Catholics, Maronites and Melkites, and a very few Copts and non-Arab Ethiopians.

Protestant churches have a miniscule presence, mostly the result of modern-day missionary activity.

A good survey of Holy Land churches can be found here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/Christian_communities.html

Posted by: Paul at September 5, 2005 9:32 AM

The Israelis also took their sweet time when the Church in Bethlehem was seized and desecrated by Paleoswinian thugs. Of course, it doesn't help when the Greek patriarch, ahem, "christian" sanctions suicide bombings. Too bad the Christians in the PA can't find common cause with the Jews in Israel.

Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at September 5, 2005 9:52 AM

I have no first hand knowledge of the Christians in Palestine/Israel, but it seems from public remarks over the years that the the political leaders and church leaders of the Christians sided and identified strongly with the PLO cause. I have never understood that line of thinking...I guess the work dhimmi comes to mind to describe the attitude. Israel, like any other country, is not perfect but it offered much more freedom, security and opportunities for Christians than Arafat and the PLO ever did. I would think that by now the ordinary Christians, those that are left, are seeing the hand-writing on the wall..and it spells jihad and death to all non-Muslims.

Posted by: maryrose at September 5, 2005 10:50 AM

Thanks for those figures. I don't suppose the BCC would ever ask one why none of these Palestinian Christians have been suicide bombers.

I can quite believe that they are as antisemetic as the muslims. I have a friend who recently returned from spending a few months with a Christian family in Syria. Their young children used the term 'jew dog' as their favorite insult.

Posted by: Sebastien at September 5, 2005 11:02 AM

In reference to the comment that the Israelis were slow to react: My impression (I'm an American Jew of no particular consequence) is that most Israelis view the ongoing conflict as the Arab vs. Israeli conflict, a national conflict, rather than a muslim vs. non-muslim conflict, a religious conflict (which it more accurately is). This may result in thoughts along the lines of: let the arabs kill each other... . good riddance to all of them. The national conflict view, also, I think, is responsible for the wishful thinking embodied in Peace Now, and the Oslo accords, and subsequent negotiations.

The actions and words of nominal christians such as hanan ashrawi, edward said, diana buttu, the old-line "plo" terrorist george habash, and many (not all) Christian clergymen, both arab and western, visiting Israel, tend to confirm this point of view.

Until the 1980s, the conflict did, more reasonably, seem to be arab vs. Israeli. An outsider, first viewing events since the 1980s, may have a clearer view than a participant/resident who has seen and heard the news since before Israel was refounded in 1948.

Posted by: del at September 5, 2005 11:09 AM

maryrose

After seeing the Christian response to Arafat's slaughter of the inhabitants of Damour in Lebanon in 1976, and the the other atrocities the PLO commited with the Saika I never more asked why or how.
It is beyond my comprehension that any Christian could associate with the PLO and co.

Jauhara Al-Kafirah
The Israelis also took their sweet time when the Church in Bethlehem was seized and desecrated by Paleoswinian thugs.

You have forgotten of course the European reaction to the Israelis cornering those thugs?
La Stampa's infamous cartoon showing an Israeli tank threatening the Christ Child with the caption that he was being crucified again.
Then think of the haven the Europeans provided for those (13 if I remember correctly) bastards after the 'standoff'.

Posted by: Cynic at September 5, 2005 11:13 AM

This is painfully resembling of the infamous Lebanese Scenario, so vividly recalled by Brigitte Gabriel here. It is all but natural to expect similar incidents occuring wherever Muslims hold a sizeable majority.

-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org

Posted by: dolphin at September 5, 2005 12:00 PM

The front page of the Corriere della Sera for Sunday, September 4, carries an article on the attacks -- rapes and murders and theft of land -carried out, with the knowledge and connivance of the "Palestinian" Authority, by members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, against Christians living in Bethlehem. The article by Lorenzo Cremonesi gives dates, facts, and quotes supplied by the few intrepid Christians in Bethelehem willint to be identified by name. The newly-named Custodian of the Sacred Places, a Franciscan friar, does not mince words either. There is a full-page spread inside about the matter.

The piece can be found at www.corriere.org; the newsppaer, published here by satellite, can be picked up in many large cities.

Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2005 12:13 PM

Paul,

Your figures of 100,000 to 200,000 seem to me to be inflated.

Palestinian Christians on the West Bank prospered during the Israeli occupation...until the 1st intifada (1987-92) when constant chaos, stone-throwing and road-blocks strangled commerce.

After Oslo (1993), when the PA took administrative control over population centers on the West Bank and Gaza, the plight of Palestinian Christians worsened considerably. Their Churches and graveyards were desecrated with regularity and a general air of insecurity has become pervasive. Tens of thousands have emigrated. I would guess that certainly less than 100,000 remain, probably less than 50,000.

And yet, the psychological effects of dhimmitude once again show their utility; Palestinian Christians readily identify with the very Palestinian nationalism that is facilitating their exile.

Posted by: Cornelius at September 5, 2005 1:38 PM

No-one has yet touched on the "logic" of this article.

An Islamic woman has a relationship with a Christian man. Her Islamic family finds out about the relationship and murders her. The Islamic PLO/PA decides to dig up her body.

The reaction? An Islamic mob burns down a Christian village and steals their belongings.

The reporter doesn't go "Huh?".

Posted by: special_guest at September 5, 2005 2:00 PM

Just another example of how the 7th century death cult of Flaming Mo' continues to menace the civilized world...

Posted by: SeifulKaffir at September 5, 2005 2:39 PM

Many of the Bethlehem Christians were not eager to have arafat ruling over them, though of course, in public, they are not going to make a fuss, and may even join in chanting the slogans they're expected to. To illustrate, I know a man who works in Jerusalem and lives in Efrat, the new Jewish town south of Bethlehem. On his way home one day about eight or nine years ago he picked up a woman at a hitchhiking stop. She looked like somebody in Efrat and he offered her a lift. Then, while seated in the car, she asked him, Why did you do this to us? He answered, What did I do? "You put yasser arafat over us to rule us."
In other words, it turned out that she was not a Jewess from Efrat but a Christian Arab woman from Bethlehem. She explained that she and her people in Bethlehem were terribly afraid of arafat government in particular, and Muslim govt in general. And she blamed Israel for bringing in arafat. As a matter of fact, the fellow who was giving her a lift was also against giving arafat territory to govern. He too was against Oslo. But she was very distraught, as he described the encounter. Bear in mind that giving Bethlehem to arafat & Co. was the work of Rabin and Peres, with the hearty approval of the EU, the State Dept, Prez Clinton, etc.
[in fact, there have been quite a few incidents of persecuting Christians, since arafat and his gang took over Jericho and Gaza in 1994, and were allowed to roam at will on both sides of the 1949 armistice line, for the first few years afterwards.]
To conclude, many of the Christians, and even some Muslims were not keen on having arafat rule over them.

Posted by: Eliyahu at September 5, 2005 4:45 PM

That headline should read:
Muslims ransack Christian village, again.

How many hundreds of stories like this have we posted here?

It is amazing to me, how the plain facts in everyday news can be ignored by all our elite. Everybody who isn't braindead, let me correct that, those of us over forty, who pay attention to these things and read the paper, can make the connections simply because the connection between Islam and violence is as plain as the nose on your face. That our leadership, on both sides of the aisle, are in some perverse form of denial is plain to us as well.

Where are the politicians who have America's and the Americans true interests at heart, who will not pander for the Muslim vote? Tancredo, any others? I see a real opportunity for a black old fashioned Christian leader in the Martin Luther King mode. Regular black Christians are under-represented by the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons of this world that have tarnished King's legacy as a peace-maker who showed the way for non-violent social change. Why aren't they immitating him? Because these supposed "Reverends" are not truly men of God. And whatever you want to throw at King personally, he was a godsend to us all socially.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at September 5, 2005 5:55 PM

Cornelius:

The CIA World Fact Book gives the population of the West Bank as 2.4 million, 75% of whom are Muslim, 17% are Jews and 8% percent, or 184,000, are Christian.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/we.html

The Religous Freedom Coalition puts the number of West Bank Christians at 30,000.

http://www.rfcnet.org/news/default.asp?action=detail&article=296

Another site says the West Bank population is 96% Muslim.

http://almashriq.hiof.no/general/300/320/327/fafo/reports/FAFO151/2_5.html

The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (No. 24 at the link below) put the West Bank population in 1999 at 1.6 million and the number of Christians at 38,000.

http://www.pcbs.org/publicat/populat.aspx

These conflicting numbers at least in part reflect whether the Arab population of Jerusalem is tallied in the count. Israel formally annexed Arab-East Jerusalem many years ago and issued its population "blue" identity cards. A blue card gives its bearer the right to work in Israel proper as well as Israeli healthcare, pension and other benefits. It is thus much sought after by people who in fact live outside Jerusalem. At a guess, the Arab population of Jerusalem is 200,000.

By all accounts, Christians have been leaving the area, in part because they're able to. They tend to be wealthier, better educated and have fewer children than Muslims. There's probably also a bias on the part of government clerks towards accepting them as immigrants into Western countries. I believe only about a quarter of Arabs in the United States are Muslims.

BTW, I've never heard of Jewish Israelis disparaging Christian Arabs. Perhaps Israel should indeed allow the Arabs the right of return -- but only the Christian ones.

Posted by: Paul at September 5, 2005 8:04 PM

I would reply to the above, that Muslim mentality belongs in the Middle Ages... but then again - that's too much of an insult to the Middle Ages.

Posted by: Timbo at September 6, 2005 4:31 AM

Not that “getting along” is too taxing for Muslims. Shoebat declares: “The treatment today of Christians is deplorable. . . . Christians have no one to stand for them. Leaders like Michael Sabbah [the Roman Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem] work with the PLO, making it hard for Holy Land Christians to remain there.”

The ultimate purpose of all this? A Palestinian state established by jihad and ruled by Sharia: “Today,” concludes Shoebat, “with the almost total eradication of the Christian presence, one can see that in our mind [as Muslims] it all goes to one thing: the end justifies the means. In jihad one can lie and use others to promote the cause, since jihad is in stages.”

As Muhammad himself said, “War is deceit.” Has Michael Sabbah heard that one?
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3023

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 6, 2005 7:04 AM

The Bible has passages that instruct Christans to marry inside the faith. Following this may have prevented this entire event, so perhaps it is worth considering. Perhaps others here also know the passages.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at September 6, 2005 10:25 AM

First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people...

http://www.katinaproductions.com/rehov/previewhl.html

Posted by: Kemaste at September 7, 2005 1:50 AM

I dont know about how many christians in Arab countries but I do know how many Jews there were in 2000, so I would suppose that it is not to much different for Christians.
what all Arab nations have done to their Jewish population (who greatly contributed to making their Arab nations great)? The Arabs and Muslims stole everything the Jews had, and then either kicked them out or murdered them. Statistics of Jews in Arab Countries: Shocking - These stats were taken from "Myths and Facts" - a great book by Mitchell B. Bard. You can go to the internet link for this book at: http://standwithus.com/links.asp

First number is from the year 1948, the second number is taken from the year 2000:
Algeria 140,000,.............. ..Less than 100
Egypt 75,000,............................. 200
Iran 100,000,.................12,000 to 40,000
Iraq 150,000,..............................100
Lebanon 20,000,........................... 100
Libya 38,000,............................... 0
Morocco 265,000,....... .................5,800
Syria 30,000,................. ............200
Tunisia 105,000,.........................1,500
Yemen 55,000,............... ..............200

See a pattern???? and what do Muslims think of pagans/infidel, are we in for any better,,,,,hmmmm
Even though they wont become citizens they insist on Sharia law in Canada, where will it stop..

Posted by: Gaye at September 7, 2005 9:04 AM

I dont know what christians are there, but I am posting this on what Jews were there and I dare say it is similar to Christians...
What all Arab nations have done to their Jewish population (who greatly contributed to making their Arab nations great)? The Arabs and Muslims stole everything the Jews had, and then either kicked them out or murdered them. Statistics of Jews in Arab Countries: Shocking - These stats were taken from "Myths and Facts" - a great book by Mitchell B. Bard. You can go to the internet link for this book at: http://standwithus.com/links.asp

First number is from the year 1948, the second number is taken from the year 2000:
Algeria 140,000,..............Less than 100
Egypt 75,000,.......................... 200
Iran 100,000,..............12,000 to 40,000
Iraq 150,000,...........................100
Lebanon 20,000,........................ 100
Libya 38,000,............................ 0
Morocco 265,000,....... ..............5,800
Syria 30,000,.............. ............200
Tunisia 105,000,......................1,500
Yemen 55,000,............ ..............200

See a pattern???? and what do Muslims think of pagans/infidel, are we in for any better,,,,,hmmmm
Even though they wont become citizens they insist on Sharia law in Canada, where will it stop..

Posted by: Gaye at September 7, 2005 9:13 AM

sorry guys, the first one sid that it hadnt gone through... eheheh...

Posted by: Gaye at September 7, 2005 9:15 AM

Yes, the Bible says in Corinthians 6:14, “Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers;
I think as most of the Bible teaches common sense this is just the same... Along with its spiritual meaning, it stands to reason that if you marry someone with different ideas and background, that it will make it harder for the marriage to work...

Posted by: Gaye at September 7, 2005 9:27 AM

And 2nd Corinthians 6:15 As well. Thanks for the reply..

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at September 8, 2005 1:55 AM

And 2nd Corinthians 6:15 As well. Thanks for the reply..

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at September 8, 2005 1:56 AM