"No Future Without Islam" in an Islamic country.

I cannot get over the fact that this should be a surprise to the world of infedels.

Ofcourse there will be no future without Islam in an Islamic country. What is there to be surprised about, get over it?

As Islamic countries modernise (i.e. in terms of infrastructure, heating, lighting etc?), these countries will have populace who will have a little more time and will devote it towards politics. In Pakistan for example, politics takes pride of place...despite this... the fact that we have a dictator is one of the wierd ironies of Pakistan.

At any rate, in the future Islamic countries will have more elections in one year than a chinaman has on his wedding night".

This must be expected, Islam is a very political as well as religious movement, "bending but not breaking" is important in Islam.

Instead the question that the infedel should ask is:

"Is there a future without Islam in the West?"

I suspect that the answer to this question is NO....and the reasons.

1) There is an increasing population of muslims in the west.

2) The muslims in the west will start to see their home country of origin, e.g. Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq taking part in elections (& fair ones too). They will see their countries bend but not break. The habit will take root in the west too, with many many muslim politicans being elected....and (slowly) pushing the Islamic model. Now, today this model is not favoured by the majority ......

but tommorow....who will the majority be....why muslim ofcourse....and with a few tweaks here and there...the model will become more favoured.

There just seems an inevitability about the whole thing.....and I guess it is the reason why there are so many who integrate and stick with Allah (S.W.T).

Now I know many will be seething reading this...so what can you do? Well, ignore the bumper stickers and start bumping in other ways.

The non-muslim population in the West needs to grow...send them to sunday school from the age of 6....every week without fail , push the christianity, sikh, hindu models and then we may see some results.

Posted by: Naseem at September 21, 2005 8:15 AM

i fervently wish all muslims living in the united states of america and all our troops currently in the middle east could somehow trade places. nothing personal you understand. im just really tired of the whole mess. im sick and tired of people coming to america and trying to remake us in their own image instead of assimilating into our society. america. love it or leave it is my feeling. got that naseem?

Posted by: dms at September 21, 2005 9:03 AM

sorry, that was slightly off topic but i just had to get my feelings out there afer reading naseems post.

Posted by: dms at September 21, 2005 9:09 AM

dms:

Naseem isn't cheering on the demise of western civilization, she's telling us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps or suffer the consequences:

"Now I know many will be seething reading this...so what can you do? Well, ignore the bumper stickers and start bumping in other ways.

The non-muslim population in the West needs to grow...send them to sunday school from the age of 6....every week without fail , push the christianity, sikh, hindu models and then we may see some results."

As a persecuted Amhedayyan Muslim (pardon the spelling), posting from Pakistan, she is no fan of the Islamists at home or abroad. She's terrified of them.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at September 21, 2005 9:14 AM

So Robert, is it the attempt at nation-building that you object to, or was it the invasion itself?

Should we have left the Taliban in power?...to remain a sanctuary for those who attacked us on 9-11?

Or, assuming you supported the invasion but oppose nation-building, should we have made no effort at all to build a civil society in Afghanistan, however imperfect? What were our alternatives, let the warlords run rampant? Exit quickly and let the Taliban reconquer the country?

I have great respect for your work and am genuinely interested in how you would respond to these questions.

Posted by: Cornelius at September 21, 2005 9:41 AM

I know very little about the history of Afghanistan. I know that there were great upheavals in the l970's. I recently came across a travel book about Afghanistan written in 1958. I was shocked. Although it was certainly a rural country for the most part and Kabul was not London or Paris, progress was being made. There were pictures of a university, with women students, without any cover. There were government buildings, in tact. The hospital had nurses in white Western uniforms. In one photo, they were being instructed by a beardless doctor in a white coat. In another photo, several nurses in Western style uniforms were at the bedside of a male patient. There were photos of a bakery/ factory, with men in white uniforms, and gleeming stainless steel vats. It looked as if things were happening, at least in the cities. There were formal gardens. For sure, Islam was present in that country, but not the insanity that it is now. Somewhere I read that the old King, who lived in Italy in exile for years, had the last Christian church in Afghanistan burned down in the early 1970's. From what I gathered from that travel book,there was an attempt to enter the 20th century. It is now back to the Stone (and stoning)Age..really sad. And, the West seems happy with all of that Islam, just as long as the citizens show up at the polling places. Oh yes, and the Americans have done some rebuilding, a number of mosques, courtesy of the US military.

Posted by: maryrose at September 21, 2005 10:19 AM

Ahh.. Naseem the gr8 taquiyya ***** is back. Look at how she refers to us as infidels. Ahamadiyya or not all Muslims are same. Needless to say, same things would have happened to Sunnis or Shias in Puke-e-stan had Ahamadiyya majority.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at September 21, 2005 11:48 AM

Vikrant, please read Naseem's post carefully. She used the term 'infidels' purposely to create a stronger effect... after all that is what muslims think of us as. As Waterdragon52 reiterates, Naseem is only trying to point out the danger Western countries face from an ever-expanding muslim population.

Posted by: Razdan at September 21, 2005 12:02 PM

No Razdan me dear boy.... In one of her old posts she mentions that she sent her son to infedel country (no quotes). I used tah think Kashmiri Pandits recognise Muzzies for what they are... Tell me arent those Bhats and Geelanis out there s'posed to follow the "benovelent" Kashmiri Sufism?

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at September 21, 2005 12:27 PM

Nasseem sez:

"...send them to sunday school from the age of 6....every week without fail , push the christianity, sikh, hindu models and then we may see some results..."

I'm afraid it is too late for that. The West is too secular for that and religion will not fill the vacuum that it has created. But the West will pull itself together, it just needs a few more attacks and as we all know, these attacks will come with the increasing numbers of muslim "grievances..."

Maryrose:

"...Somewhere I read that the old King, who lived in Italy in exile for years, had the last Christian church in Afghanistan burned down in the early 1970's..."

Several posters here on JW/DW have posted that previously.
Why would he do that and is there any evidence?

Wasn't the King already ousted in the the mid-thirdies for trying to bring the country into the modern ages? The king of Afghanistan was ousted -just like the Shah of Iran- for banning the chador, for trying to get the women to participate in the society, perhaps by trying to copy Ataturk of Turkey. Perhaps Hugh can help us out here?

My travels brought me to Afghanistan in the seventies on several occasions, when mild attempts at modernization seemed -at least in Kabul,Kandahar and Herat-, on the way.

Then the Russians invaded...

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 21, 2005 12:51 PM

Vikrant:

With Naseem, it could be a matter of an old habit dying hard or employing a term of convenience rather than an intention to alienate us by employing a derisive term. I remember some years ago when a non-Jewish friend getting the point across to some Jewish friends of mine that it was offensive to be referred to as "goyim", I decided to drop the term from my vocab.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at September 21, 2005 1:01 PM

Islam only ensures the failure.

Know Islam, no future.

Posted by: JanuaryMan at September 21, 2005 1:03 PM

Vikrant, on second thought you may be right. I had taken Naseem's post at face value... and it seemed to me that she was saying that all of us infidels (Hindus/Buddhists/Christians/etc) better start breeding heavily if we want to avoid being overtaken by the moosies. I, of course, made the assumption that she must have given up her Islamic faith... otherwise why would she make such a point. I have since then read some of her other postings and it is pretty clear that she is a practicing muslim (of the Ahmediya sect), which makes her writing what she did quite bizarre to say the least. Unless, of course, she was only making fun of us.

Posted by: Razdan at September 21, 2005 1:12 PM

Afghanistan's move toward modernization will be glacial speed. Even if Islam disappeared (from my computer to God's ears) there would still be the warlords, the opium, the illiteracy, the lack of a rule of law.

We have to keep on keeping on. There is simply no other choice. The world has gone too far technologically for us to pull in our horns and trot home. Even if we wanted it, isolationism is an anachronism. We just have to decide how big our footprint will be and how heavy it will fall on any particular country's neck. This fact alone makes TROTW (the rest of the world) impotently rageful.

As if the sheer numbers of Muslims mattered. Exactly what are they going to do with all those people? Load them in cannons and shoot them at us?

Human beings are hard-wired for social interaction and for seeking patterns and meaning in things. Those two basic aspects of the human brain have been given free play in the US and the benefit has redounded to us and to the rest of the world. Envy and hatred doesn't change the story of our success.

Islam seeks to supress both of these characteristics of what it means to be human. The absolute soul murder they practice on their children creates the monsters who populate those snake-bitten lands where Islam is a majority. Because it so perverts what it means to be human it will be defeated eventually.

Think of Russia and its central planning. That kind of polity was doomed by its very nature because it suppressed the core of what it means to be human. That it took it awhile to implode is simply a measure of their determination to make a silk purse out of a sow's behind.

The world ignored Islam for generations because it didn't present a problem. Now it does, and we will solve this one just as we have the others. And then some other form of utopian socialism will raise its ugly head...the Pslamist didn't call this place "the valley of the shadow of death" for nothing.

Posted by: Dymphna at September 21, 2005 1:36 PM

As if the sheer numbers of Muslims mattered. Exactly what are they going to do with all those people? Load them in cannons and shoot them at us?

No, but pretty close. They are going to load them with explosives to blow themselves amongst us.

Dymphna, unfortunately sheer numbers do matter, especially in democracies like ours that are governed by the will of the majority.

Posted by: Razdan at September 21, 2005 1:46 PM

ISLAMIC BANKING IN INDIA - ARE WE AWAKE?

I would like to draw your attention to a very grave matter which has the potential of affecting the economy and security of India in a drastic way. Under the present government a conspiracy has been hatched to introduce one more Islamic evil into the already contaminated Indian society. The name of the evil is Islamic banking and the Central Government is exploring ways to launch it.

Following is the news item as reported by Jamaat-e-Islami Hind in Milligazette, an Indian Muslim English fortnightly newspaper:
Jamaat welcomes move to introduce Islamic banking in India
New Delhi, 16 July, 2005: Jamaat-e-Islami Hind has welcomed the Governments move to introduce Islamic Banking in the country. In a statement issued today, the State Chief of Jamaat-e-Islami Hind Mr. H. Abdur Raqeeb has said: "We are very happy and immensely pleased to know that Government of India has asked the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) to explore ways to bring Islamic banking into India. We welcome this historic, momentous decision by our Government. This is a positive step towards economic reforms with a human face as mentioned in the Common Minimum Programme of UPA. Islamic Banking will help the poor and marginalised segments of society, petty traders, small farmers, skilled persons and women encouraging saving as well as providing micro credit along with other macro banking operations". Moreover, he pointed out the fact that banking products which comply with Islamic Law are becoming increasingly popular, not only in Gulf countries and Far eastern states like Malaysia, but also in other developed markets such as the United Kingdom. Reputed banks like Citibank, Standard Chartered Bank, HBSC are operating interest free windows in several West Asian countries, Europe and USA. There is a huge potential market in India for Islamic banking products, as well, he opined.
It may be recalled here that Jamaat had pleaded to chalk out ways and means to establish Islamic Banks in India. In its People's Manifesto released on the eve of Parliamentary Elections 2004 Jamaat had reiterated that: The rise of interest as a gigantic social evil is alarming. One of the most gruesome dimensions of this draconian evil manifests itself in "family suicides". To get rid of this menace and save the society and nation from the clutches of interest, suitable amendments should be made in Banking Act, facilitating the establishment of interest free banks and interest free financial institutions,(People's Manifesto, (C) Economy- 6).
The Finance Ministry has asked the Reserve Bank of India to explore ways to bring Islamic Banking into our country and the bank has already formed a senior team headed by Mr. Anand Sinha, chief general Manager Incharge, department of banking operations & development to look into the matter. The Jamaat chief, who is also a member of central executive council and the Interest free Islamic Banking cell, has written letters of appreciation to Mr. Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister and Mr. P. Chidambaram, Finance Minister welcoming the move. He has also expressed: "Jamaat-e-Islami Hind has a separate cell consisting of Islamic Banking experts and Indian Association for Islamic Economics, Aligarh also have the data and detail regarding the same and will be happy to associate and assist the RBI committee and place its services".

http://www.milligazette.com/IndMusStat/2005a/038-JIHind-16july05.htm

Our deep concerns:

Is the existing network of banking infrastructure in India insufficient to cater to the needs of all sections of the society like the poor and marginalised segments of society, petty traders, small farmers, skilled persons and women? Don’t they encourage saving as well as provide micro credit along with other macro banking operations? Well the answer is certainly yes. Then what is the need for thrusting upon the country another form of banking which is based upon the desert laws of the medieval times? Are the 7th century stagnant Arab laws more economically feasible, practical, rationally and logically implemental and humane than the present international banking system which has evolved over a long period and constantly improvising upon the complex needs of the modern society? What is the requirement of having two sets of banking laws for the citizens in the same country? Has India not suffered enough due to the existence of different sets of personal laws? The demand for the practice of Sharia laws led to the partition of our motherland. Even after the tragic incident the Muslims in India have been allowed to have a separate code of laws. We all know about the evil consequences of such a horrible decision made in the past.

This leads us to the critical question - What is the hidden agenda of this present UPA government?

Does this UPA government intend to promote organized terror in India fully funded officially by the oil rich Arab countries? It is because after the establishment of such Islamic banks in India large amount of petro dollars can find their way easily inside the country. It is a matter of common knowledge that these funds are used to instigate and fuel Islamic fundamentalist activities and extremism. More Islamic terror schools or madrassas will be opened throughout the length and breadth of the country hence leading to the in-house breeding of terrorists. The regulatory authorities will eventually have little or no control over these Islamic institutions. More Islamic missionary activities will be undertaken and more conversions will follow with the help of the free flow of funds. So are we heading towards strengthening the long cherished Arab movement for carving out another Islamic state from within India? And the allies of this sinister motive are our own politicians ruling in the centre. God save our motherland!

The present banking machinery will lose out on revenue too due to the exodus of funds and business by Islamic zealots living in India.

Just try to imagine the drastic and extremely far-reaching consequences such a move can bring about in the economic, social and political horizon of India. You do not have to be a Nobel laureate in finance or economics or politics to figure that out. It is time we unite and fight together to protect and free our motherland from the clutches of her enemies.

Posted by: AmoghShaikh at September 21, 2005 2:24 PM

Mr. Razdan asks why I would speak up against muslims being an Ahmaddia muslim myself.

There are good solid reasons for this. My beloved Pakistan far from being the secular state that Ali Jinnah spoke about has been turned into a land of "black or white", a land of "in or out", a land of the "pure and the rest".

I put my right foot after marriage & entered my husband's home in the traditional Islamic way.

My father-in law treated me like a princess and I was happy with the open green space, and blurred lines between Ahmadi, Sunni and Shia.

Now Ahmadis are black, they are white, we are out they are in, they are pure we are not. WE are forced to pray in our own mosques.

No more green space, only hordes of crowds, Pakistan population has mushroomed no space to swing a cat and loads of army types for neighbors....but the worst...the worst thing was when my father-in-law died. We were denied burial ground in our local area....you see "Ahmadi infedels" pollute pure burial ground.

That single incident had quite a blow to my physcie.

By teaching the pure to vote you do not get democracy. You get the pure who learn western politics. They learn to get more of their own way.

So the infedel wants spread democracy. What you are teaching them is how to takeover the west peacefully....while squandering billions.

Ofcourse it goes without saying that some will see the pull of democracy and genuinely want to live that way....but you are talking of women like me...people who will get killed before they are allowed thier way.

DMS says he is fed up.....If that's how you feel now, all I can say to you then is don't have any children....because you aint seen nothing yet.

You are only at the start of the Islamic revolution. Country by country, area by area and house by house, each will become pure....like my area in Lahore did. It is like a lava flow which sets fire in the water, turning it orange with rising plumes of steam...only to be replaced by more. Eventually the water recedes from the pressure, the heat and you see new land there.....

........dark and barren but pure.

Posted by: Naseem at September 21, 2005 3:23 PM

"Islam is a very tolerant and progressive religion... " Taqiyyah (lies). Islam is, in truth, a repressive and backward cult.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2005 3:38 PM

"Afghanistan’s future is tied with Islam" Then Afghanistan is doomed.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2005 3:53 PM

"Islam is the modern system" No, Islam is a backward 7th century cult that oppresses women, permits slavery, forbids music, has an "eye for an eye" legalistic system, etc., etc. It will never be compatible with other religions. It calls Jesus a liar because it says he cannot be the son of God because "Allah has no sons". It says Jesus did not die on the cross. No tolerance, no forgiveness. Is it any wonder that every Muslim nation is a third world country???

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2005 4:02 PM

Naseem has been posting here for quite some time.
I think she is well aware of the derisive nature of the term "infidel", and how it is viewed on this site. Sorry, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Posted by: treehugger at September 21, 2005 6:00 PM

So Islam is now being hyped by its zombie-esque shills as being "MODERN"!!!!

I always knew I was the 'old-fashioned type'. You know one of the ones who thinks that human life actually MEANS SOMETHING....

--and that killing was WRONG unless it was in self-defense.

--and that torture and dismembering human beings was unnecessary and not even fit for animals.

--goodwill towards all other human beings was the secret to a decent existence in this life.

You know, I'd be willing to bet that the now-extinct Cro-Magnons that once roamed this planet believed themselves to be the latest thing in modernity too and look where they are now.

Posted by: pythagoras at September 21, 2005 8:49 PM

Mr. Razdan asks why I would speak up against muslims being an Ahmaddia muslim myself.

Naseem, while I am happy that you do have the courage to speak up against muslims, I would be much more convinced of your intentions if you had the courage to speak up against Islam itself. After all it is Islam from which these muslims are deriving their intolerant behavior. This intolerance exhibited by muslims is nothing new, its been there from day 1, starting with Muhammad himself who exhibited some of the worst forms of intolerance.

Posted by: Razdan at September 21, 2005 11:05 PM