As to the effect of roommates -- I know of a boy, now a man, who attended a famous preparatory school in Massachusetts. His roommate at that school was a rich Pakistani, son of some zamindar, who first introduced him, smilingly, to the wonders and delights of Islam. The boy went on to a very famous college, where his interest in, enthusiasm for, Islam -- oh, did I say that he converted along the way -- led him to major in MIddle Eastern studies. When last heard from he was making his way to Yemen to find an appropriate bride.

When there is no there there, it is easy to fill up minds with other things. It doesn't take much. A nice, Western-educated, smiling and plausible -- oh, and very rich, did I forget to add that -- roommate from Pakistan, or for that matter Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, can make all the difference.

Unless one has been well-armed, mentally, ahead of time. And what parents in the past, or even now, fully sense the danger -- and are willing to take the time to fully warn about all the ways that Islam can be, and is, presented, to innocent Infidels, who may start out on what they think is some primrose path of dalliance with Islam, and end up marching fi sabih Allah, on the path of Allah.

And we all know what that means.

Posted by: Hugh at October 5, 2005 12:15 PM

"Joe would have become a Muslim fanatic when pigs fly," the father side
Remember what Mohammad Atta's father said about his involvement in 9-11?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 12:35 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5961724/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 12:44 PM

In all fairness to the bomber's father, the man is probably still in shock and, in all probability, not of the same mindset as Mohammed Atta's father, who has contradicted himself with respect to his infamous son's infamous deed.

As for the vulnerability of university students, ask anyone working in the counselling department of any institution. If you have someone who is predisposed toward any mental instability, both the strains of adjusting to college life, which may or may not take students far from their normal supports, and age, all sorts of things can happen. Typically, such major mental illnesses as bipolar disorder may not fully manifest until late adolescence and earlier symptoms be dismissed as minor behavioural/maturity problems. Suicide rates are also probably highest in the late adolescent/early adult years.

Whether Joel Heinrichs III was primed for this by his roomie remains to be seen. He seems the obvious instigator, but his presence may have been coincidental.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 5, 2005 12:47 PM

I hope that converting to Islam does not become the new method of rebellion for this generation of disaffected youth. Instead of the infamous “free love” and “dropping acid and dropping out” type rebellion modes of the past, could converting to Islam and joining the Jihad be the new way to strike back at your parents and the system? For some I fear it will be. This makes education about and rational argument against Islam something that needs to happen on every college campus around the country.

Care has to be taken though. I have talked to people who are attracted to various dangerous things simply because of what they perceived to be irrational and hateful persecution of a particular group or belief. I once worked with a fellow who became interested in and converted to Mormonism simply because of a program at his local church which criticized Mormon beliefs. In educating people about Islam we should give this phenomenon some consideration.,

I don't know that I have clearly expressed myself here or not. What I'm trying to say is that in educating folks, particularly young people, that we take pains to not alienate the audience to the extent they are driven to the other side.

I would not be surprised to see Islam booming on college campuses with kids walking around with beards and long shirts toting Korans and boiling over with sympathy for the plight of their fellow Muslims in the Middle-East.

Posted by: f.g. at October 5, 2005 12:48 PM

I think we all better start carrying umbrellas, a bird is one thing...
Yogs

Posted by: Yogurt at October 5, 2005 12:49 PM

I agree that the two fathers have little in common except to defend their sons, which is natural and to be expected. But also, fathers do not always know what lies deep in the hearts and minds of their sons. Like a poster said at LGF, who knows more about what a college age kid (and away from home)thinks than his father? Almost anyone.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 1:02 PM

F.G. - "I hope that converting to Islam does not become the new method of rebellion for this generation of disaffected youth."

It already is.

As part of my [fairly] extensive research into the modern Islamic phonomenon, I used to visit many blogs run by young Muslims. Plenty of the bloggers/ contributors openly stated that they converted at first out of rebellion, then found that they agreed with the ideology. How many of these "reverts" have converted/ will convert back, I don't know.

But I do know that "reverts" are often more fervent in their following of the cult than those who were born into it.

Posted by: Sneaky at October 5, 2005 1:11 PM

From a FreeRepublic Post article:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/530336/posts]]

Interesting info about the room mates last name, Cheema...Muslim Student Association involvement, etc.

"Khalil has also been associated in Tulsa with Mujeeb Cheema, a Pakistani and organizer of a radical campus student group. There are several high level officials in the Pakistani Intelligence services close to Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein who have the same last name Cheema.

It is not known if they are related but Pakistanis are believed to have been hired by Sadam Hussein to help McVeigh. Cheema was employed in Tulsa by a company owned in part by Terry Lenzner, a close friend and investigator for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Cheema is a strong backer and promoter of a Tulsa mosque that could have aided two pilots who lived in Tulsa and were involved in the suicide attacks on the WTC. The Tulsa World reported on 9/18/2001 in the article “Possible Spartan Link Investigated” that one of the pilots in the WTC attack trained at the Spartan Flight school in Tulsa and another pilot used a Tulsa address as his residence on hi pilot’s license"

Posted by: jawa at October 5, 2005 1:22 PM

Sneaky:

I am one of those "reverts" who has converted back this time back to smells and bells Catholicism. Your observations are spot on in regards to the fanatism of some converts, I believe the only way to combat this flow of conversions is for people to educate themselves about Islam with particular emphasis on Muhammad's bloodthirstiness and unscrupulousness. Some concerned novelist should write a book about Muhammad's life through the eyes of a member of the Jewish Banu Quraiza tribe. Or even better imagine the storm if the British humor magazin "VIZ" lampooned the "Prophet" in one of its editions.
I've always argued, destroy the reputation of Muhammad and the whole facade of Islam will come tumbling down.

Posted by: spencerd at October 5, 2005 1:32 PM

A fine example of how Islam is a form of organized group insanity. A virulent form.

Christians? They go to Guyana and drink the Koolaid. Moslems? They go to the nearest infidel and attempt murder.

Posted by: Shaughn at October 5, 2005 1:34 PM

On another site I saw an interview with the owner of a feed store in Norman. Just four days before Hinrich blew himself up, he was in the store asking to buy amonia nitrate. The owner said that Hinrich was wearing a green (!!) vest with some wires sticking out of it. He become very suspecious of the soon-to-be-bomber and refused to sell him anything. I have also seen a photo of the now deceased. He was sporting a beard, maybe like his new friends at the nearby mosque.

Posted by: maryrose at October 5, 2005 1:39 PM

>Some concerned novelist should write a book about >Muhammad's life through the eyes of a member of the >Jewish Banu Quraiza tribe.

SpencerD, this idea is brilliant. A bit like "Rosecrans and Guildenstern are Dead". I wonder if making the film would put people under a death fatwa. It would take some serious courage to do this in light of what happened to Theo Van Gogh.

Quijybo

Posted by: Quijybo at October 5, 2005 1:47 PM

Spencerd. - "I've always argued, destroy the reputation of Muhammad and the whole facade of Islam will come tumbling down."

I'm sorry, but I think that you are only half correct about that.

It's clear for anyone to see that Muhammad was a man of psychopathic rage - all anyone has to do is to read the Hadiths (and to a lesser extent, the Qu'ran). It is not hidden from us.

The problem is that not everyone is of sound mind to begin with. For every "x" people who would rightly be appalled by Mohammad's character there are "x-y" people who would admire him for it. This is also why some people admire Hitler, Stalin & Co. There are always people who are drawn towards these supremacist mass-murdering types. They want to ally themselves to figures they see as strong and radical.

So, whilst to dispel the myth that Muhammad was a man of peace would go some way to solving the problem, it would still be totally inadequate in the face of those who convert BECAUSE Muhammad was an exceptionally strong [albeit phychopathic] personality.

Even though I partially disagree with your point, I do not myself have the answer. Well, in saying that, I mean that I do not have an answer outside of the obvious, and that it to confine, one way or another, those true Muslims who wish to enforce the idea of global jihad and shariah.

I think ultimately, in years to come, as Islam is seen by Muslims to be the word of god and therefore immune to change, it will come down to, quite simply, subjugating entire swathes of people who cannot live amongst unbelievers without wanting to kill/ rape/ enslave/ forcibly convert them, as per their instructions in Islamic jurisprudence.

I truly think that Islam beats even fascism and socialism/ communism as the greatest challenge to survival on this planet.

Posted by: Sneaky at October 5, 2005 1:59 PM

On another site I saw an interview with the owner of a feed store in Norman. Just four days before Hinrich blew himself up, he was in the store asking to buy amonia nitrate. The owner said that Hinrich was wearing a green (!!) vest with some wires sticking out of it. He become very suspecious of the soon-to-be-bomber and refused to sell him anything. I have also seen a photo of the now deceased. He was sporting a beard, maybe like his new friends at the nearby mosque.

Posted by: maryrose at October 5, 2005 01:39 PM

Too bad the proprietor didn't think to or was unable to get ID from him. That's how the suicide pilot wannabee got caught. The proprietor of Sporty's the company that sells pilots' equipment and uniforms tipped the security/policy agency.

Meanwhile, over on DW, ia786 tells me to loosen up and not worry when I see notice worrisome sights like a young "Asian-looking" male dressed up in full camoflage gear for a ride on the subway in the middle of August, nowhere near any place he would require such gear and very unlikely to be a bonafide hunter of wild game and way out of season.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 5, 2005 2:29 PM

When there is no there there, it is easy to fill up minds with other things

I don't think it's a matter of no there there -- "no there there" implies a kind of inert pop nihilism. What is more likely the case with this boy is that there was, there (in between his ears), the buzzing and blooming confusion of the home-grown anti-Western, anti-American sentiments that has become all too common in our Western societies.

In a sense, this confusion is as insubstantial as thin air; but it's misleading to simply call it nothing, as the phrase "no there there" implies. It has positively negative content. And that is one powerful reason why it is receptive to the largest and most aesthetically ethnically "cool" anti-Western nebula in existence today, Islam.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at October 5, 2005 4:31 PM

Interesting post on another blog,.
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showpost.php?s=a4eaf4697e6923fc5478745f526611a0&p=1568607&postcount=222

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 4:52 PM

Mark Tapscott has a lot at his site:
http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 5:11 PM

Students during thr 60s Peace Movement proved that young people don't have to be estranged or alienated to fall victim to extreme ideas. At this time in their life they are open to new experiences and new ideas. Jihad is a idealistic concept that falls into this category.

Posted by: epg at October 5, 2005 6:36 PM

Spencerd,

I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. Discussion of this verse or that verse in the Quran is easily bogged down in the obfuscations of interpretations, translations, semantics and most commonly, moral equivalence ("similar passages of intolerance exist in the Old Testement").

Much more clearly evident are the pronounced moral failings of the Prophet Muhammad as exposed in the books of the Ahadith. Upon a solid reading of this particular scripture, attempts to paint Muhammad on an equal moral plain as Jesus become impossible.

Anyone imbued with Western sensibilities would be compelled to reject such a creature as a "prophet of God"; the pedophelia (Aisha), the expressed misogyny (the women of Mecca are "deficient in religion and intelligence"), the commands to mutilate renegades and slaughter whole tribes (the adult males of the Bani Qurayzah), the approval of the rape of female captives (the question of coitus interruptus), the conspiratorial solicitation of murder (K'ab and others)...all this is spelled out in horrific detail.

Posted by: Cornelius at October 5, 2005 6:45 PM

Inshallah -- this is no joke -- I'm sitting in my beautiful house, up in the hollywood hills -- and a PIG just flew past my deck -- no mistake -- classic Santa Ana wind conditions make visibility nearly infinite, and well - this pig just swooped past me in a helluva hurry somewhere -- anyway, a little OT, but I thought you'd all like to know.

That pathetic scraggly beard on that "youth" who blew himself up was nothing -- NOTHING. Just move along people, there's nothing to see here...

Posted by: jsla at October 5, 2005 7:10 PM

jsla, that pig that flew by was just trying not to be bar-b-qued in the brush fire coming your way.

Posted by: texan at October 5, 2005 7:36 PM

OT, But jihad related,
If you have not read the exchange between Ali Sina and Faisal Siddiqui, read it here. Hard head and hard heart.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/FaisalSiddiqui50929.htm

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 5, 2005 8:14 PM

I don't know the facts, but is it possible that the guy who blew up was an unwilling dupe? Could the "room mate" have put a bomb on him, knowing that he would go to the crowded event? After all, it is odd that he blew up when it wasn't near anyone, which doesn't make much sense. Just a thought...

Posted by: ReligionofPeas at October 5, 2005 9:11 PM

Looks like the idiot blew himself up prematurely,probably by mistake,thank God for that...
Arrest the roommate,arrest everybody at the mosque,send them to an undisclosed location and torture the truth out of them,then send them to islamistan and hope they`ll have an unfortunate accident on their way there.

Posted by: adela at October 6, 2005 12:06 AM

I agree with those who feel pointing out the dangers of Islam do little to persuade angry, thrill-seeking, angst-filled, novelty-minded rebels away from it.

There is another approach, however --- highlight the embarassments and failures of Islam. And there are many.

Remind them that ---

• Most Muslim countries, as most know, fare as or more poorly economically, educationally, and technologically than most non-Muslim countries. Very embarassing for the self-proclaimed "perfect way of life".
• Allah supposedly smiles on those who pursue His will and damns those who don't. Yet looking at the world today, it seems Allah actually blesses countries (e.g. Canada, Finland, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, China, New Zealand) who want nothing to do with Allah and His ways, while damning many Islam-pursuing countries with horrifically-deadly earthquakes, tsunamis, war, famine, disease, and poverty. Very embarassing, theologically-speaking.
• Blaming colonialism for the despair of Islamic nations ironically does more to emphasize Islam's weakness and impotence before the non-Islamic. Very embarassing, politically-speaking.
• Ask all non-Arab Muslims why they must learn Arabic to know God, talk religion using Arabic words, bow daily towards an Arab city, make pilgrimages to Arab lands, and dress like Arabs. And ironically, why they welcome this while decrying non-Arab imperialism elsewhere....swapping their own precious non-Arab identities for superficial Arab ones without knowing it. In other words, Islam does indeed mean "surrender"....to Arab imperialism. Very embarassing, culturally-speaking.
• Terrorist acts committed by Muslims in the name of Islam are nothing to be proud of. Muslims deny, distance, soft-pedal, shift blame, say nothing, invent conspiracy theories, defend....do everything but admit guilt and apologize. Because deep down, it's very embarassing to those who want to disassociate Islam from terrorism. Yet the more some lash out in their shame and frustration, the more the shame piles on for rest of the ummah. A relentless cycle of embarassment after embarassment that Islam is powerless to control, in full view of a skeptical, head-shaking world.
• 1400 years after the revelations and the ummah still hasn't gotten sharia down right anywhere. Very embarassing, legislatively.

Posted by: yadayada at October 6, 2005 4:45 AM