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Nuclear and other WMD jihad update from The Guardian, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
The determination of countries across the Middle East and Asia to develop nuclear arsenals and other weapons of mass destruction is laid bare by a secret British intelligence document which has been seen by the Guardian.More than 360 private companies, university departments and government organisations in eight countries, including the Pakistan high commission in London, are identified as having procured goods or technology for use in weapons programmes.
The length of the list, compiled by MI5, suggests that the arms trade supermarket is bigger than has so far been publicly realised. MI5 warns against exports to organisations in Iran, Pakistan, India, Israel, Syria and Egypt and to beware of front companies in the United Arab Emirates, which appears to be a hub for the trade.
Perhaps MI5 would be well-advised to look into the differing motives and ideologies of the countries listed, and gauge the threat from each accordingly. But that may be too much trouble.
Posted by Robert at October 8, 2005 8:16 AM
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at October 8, 2005 8:51 AM
India and Israel are not Islamic countries, therefore their nuclear ambitions are not comparable to those of islamic countries. India and Israel, have real mortal threat from Islam and thier nuclear weapons are in fact are ultimate weapons to be used against Islamic wars, if waged against them. All Islamic countries are persuing nculear weapons to annhilate Kafirs from the earth.
Posted by: iqbal at October 8, 2005 9:12 AM
It is vital to keep important weapon technologies out of Islamic hands, as well pointed out by Hugh.
Islam must be contained and shunned.
Kudos to M15
Posted by: dgene at October 8, 2005 9:19 AM
I really do not see how MI5 is in any position to safeguard the security of Britain. Just a brief glance at their stafflist will show you that many of their operatives are non-white 'British' and we have seen how patriotic they feel towards the country that nurtured them.
I recently emailed MI5 with a question regarding the gatekeepers (those who ensure that people higher up do/do not get to see the mail from outside). I made the observation that I suspected my email would not be seen by anyone beyond the gatekeepers since their interests would not be served by their position being questioned. Needless to say, I received no answer from the gatekeepers nor their seniors, which I think proves my point.
Athena
Posted by: Athena at October 8, 2005 9:58 AM
Big supporter of yours Robert, but your last paragraph illustrates one for the big turn-offs in your writing style:
It implies that MI5 haven't thought of looking into or analysing this data and suggesting that they may be too lazy to do so. Based on what ? Just because it's not included in a leaked document doesn't mean that it hasn't been done.
There is nothing to warrant the sneering tone of this comment. Perhaps you should reserve this attitude for those who have actually shown themselves to be dim-bulbs and refrain from unwarranted sarcasm.
Athena: As far as I know this is not a white supremacist site - please return to the BNP.
Vern
Posted by: Vern at October 8, 2005 10:42 AM
I don't think Robert was "sneering." He was alluding to the absurd inclusion of Israel, which must not only retain, but should be helped by other Infidel powers to enlarge and improve, its nuclear capability. After all, Israel has been threatened clearly and repeatedly, most recently by the assorted rulers of the Islamic Republic of Iran, with nuclear or any other possible kind of annihilation. They mean it. It is intolerable to them that a sliver of land, no matter how tiny, no matter how devoid of resources (practically none -- save for the industry and intelligence of its population), should be peopled and ruled by non-Muslims. That they are the Jews, who by rights should be completely powerless, and are only to be despised, is a psychic wound that cannot be healed.
Why did MI5 list Israel in this otherwise entirely Muslim list of countries? Out of "fairness"? What would you think if the C.I.A. were to issue a report on The Dangers of Nuclear Proliferation in the Pacific Rim Area, said that it was "concerned about the gorwing nuclear capabilities of North Korea and Australia"?
Hmm? What's Wrong With This Picture?
That is all that Robert meant -- quite correctly.
Posted by: Hugh at October 8, 2005 11:42 AM
Athena... I'ma non-white Bri. Please dont club Asians with Moslems.. Indians have known menance of Islam and what it stands for a millenia before Muslims landed on British shores..
Anyways as far as i take you guys are never gonna regard me as true Brit so whats the point in engaging u in a debate...
Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at October 8, 2005 12:21 PM
sorry 4 tha typos.
Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at October 8, 2005 12:24 PM
Why don't you have a trackback field. My response is on my blog
Posted by: Don Singleton at October 8, 2005 12:44 PM
The seventh paragraph of the Guardian article says the list was prepared two years ago.
This whole "disclosure" is not all it appears to be. The British secrecy laws are much stricter than those in the United States, where the press is virtually immune from prosecution unless they actually aided in "stealing secrets" and not just reporting ones that have come to them.
One has to wonder if the timing is connected to Bush's speech, or the latest Peace Prize fiasco, or something else, like an up-coming summit. This is more of a "signal" than a revelation. Listen for the other shoe.
Posted by: texan at October 8, 2005 12:44 PM
I certainly do hope that the intelligence agencies of western nations (at least the anglo-saxon ones) haven't been infected with lethal doses of political correctness and that basic survival instinct is even now strong enough in them to do the right thing and really understand the nature of the islamo-cancerous beast.
Texan, I too think something big is in the offing. A coordinated US-UK-Israeli strike on Iranian nuke reactors maybe? If Syria has any remnants of Saddam's WMD program, I expect baby Assad to puke out the secrets pretty soon when he sees what's happening to his Ayatollah pals in Tehran....
Posted by: voletti at October 8, 2005 1:26 PM
Vikrant,
I'm American so I can't really say I have a grasp of what you deal with specific to the UK, but I for one have always appreciated your comments, coming as they do from a perspective and set of experiences other than my own. Just as Islam is not a race but an ideology that we must struggle against, we, the infidels must by neccessity be a cooperative of all peoples from all walks of life. But there is a flip side to the coin whereby some of that variety is unpleasant or even abhorent, not to mention ignorant. It's the nature of the human beast. The times call for strange bedfellows. You would think that after taking a look around at who is saying what in the world today, people would realize how unimportant a man's color is compared to the content of his heart and mind.
I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
at October 8, 2005 1:28 PM
Vikrant - I may tease you occassionally about your reasons for reading the Currant Bun but to be serious for a moment your posts are informative, mature and worthwhile. I find them of great value.
I have never come across the civil service grade of "gatekeeper". I did once meet a retired civil servant who, in the days before electric shredders, had been a papertearer at the Royal Courts. Is gatekeeper a grade pequliar to MI5? It makes me think of that scene in Ghostbusters where Sigouney Weaver has been possessed, or was she the keykeeper? I forget.
at October 8, 2005 2:10 PM
Athena the moron,
"many of their operatives are non-white 'British' and we have seen how patriotic they feel towards the country that nurtured them."
For your info one of the first soldiers killed during the Falklands war was of Indian decent (a darkie !)infact strangly enough his name was "Gandhi" he was a commando with 59 Commando, Royal Engineers, 3 Cdo Brig.
If you go to the 59 commando sqd web site you can do your own research (you thick idiot)
Also I did my time in a British uniform, my relations in India were very impressed !
I am sure that you have years & years of intelligence gathering experience, real cloak and dagger stuff, sneaky beaky to the hilt, with your Fairburn Sykes always in your hand.
What better way to infiltrate mosques, and islamic organisations than to employ some
"non white operatives".
This is the first time I have ever responded in this manner to ignorant comments.
so let me spell it out to you.
WHAT AMERICANS FOUND OUT ON SEPT 11TH 2001,
WHAT AUSTRAILIANS FOUND OUT WHEN THE BOMB ATTACK OCCURED IN BALI,
WHAT THE SPANISH REALISED IN MADRID.
WE "NON WHITES OF DUBIOUS LOYALTY"
HAVE KNOWN SINCE ABOUT THE 8-9TH CENTURY.
I hope this is clear to you.
Infact I think the introduction to this web site should be changed from "Because the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists"
To
"Because the Humanity is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists"
But hey I'm just a "non white" as were all those 90,000 Indian soldiers who died in WW2 and the others from WW1 along with the other commonwealth troops.
People like you really P**s me off, because you know nothing.
How many times have you called the met Police hotline with credible info from sources you trust ?
You are a thick cow, go to another web site
Regards
AI
at October 8, 2005 4:24 PM
MI5 should get the Nobel Prize, not the International Agency that's Everywhere Asinine.
Posted by: chsw at October 8, 2005 5:09 PM
Cf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4488247.stm
and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/768673.stm
at October 8, 2005 5:16 PM
More appropriate than Baradei would have been Ayaan Hirsi Ali. That would be a statement, and not one so goody-goody, obvious, and in the end, dangerous.
Posted by: Hugh at October 8, 2005 7:15 PM
More appropriate than Baradei would have been Ayaan Hirsi Ali. That would be a statement, and not one so goody-goody, obvious, and in the end, dangerous.
Posted by: Hugh at October 8, 2005 7:15 PM
More appropriate than Baradei would have been Ayaan Hirsi Ali. That would be a statement, and not one so goody-goody, obvious, and in the end, dangerous.
Posted by: Hugh at October 8, 2005 7:15 PM
I wonder if we are all being to harsh on Athena, I can't be certain what she means by her comment,
"many of their operatives are non-white 'British' and we have seen how patriotic they feel towards the country that nurtured them."
Does she mean non-white British as Muslims? or those of other religions.
Before we condemn Athena, why not ask her to clarify what she means?
Vikrant_Camberleykar, we all have a place in the fight against Islam, as we all have been it's victims, I welcome your contribution we can't win the fight without your help and yhe help of people of all races and religions.
As much as I disagree with the positions of the BMP, of which here in America I know very little, can't we find a way without agreeing with it's exclusionary white character, to validate it's national and cultural pride.
There are nationalist all over the world, I don't agree with their excessive and exclusionary stances, but out of this excessive pride in ones race or culture, there is some truth and some will to fight Islam.
We must separate, pride in ones culture from fear and rejection of others.
Why can't we respect England's or any other place's native culture at the same time embrace those that emigrated and integrated into their host countries.
I don't feel that every country and every place has to be a multicultural melting pot.
Vikrant_Camberleykar, when I lived in India I realized that I would never be totally accepted as Indian, but this didn't lower my respect for the richness of it's culture and I didn't reproach any of my Hindu friends for feelings of national and cultural pride, even when it bordered on excess.
One the reasons we are all in this struggle with Islam is to preserve what makes us British, or Dutch or German or India or Thai.
Long live our differences, it is a source of our strength and we need all the strength we have to survive and win.
Posted by: thecid at October 9, 2005 1:38 AM
I wonder if we are all being to harsh on Athena, I can't be certain what she means by her comment,
"many of their operatives are non-white 'British' and we have seen how patriotic they feel towards the country that nurtured them."
Does she mean non-white British as Muslims? or those of other religions.
Before we condemn Athena, why not ask her to clarify what she means?
Vikrant_Camberleykar, we all have a place in the fight against Islam, as we all have been it's victims, I welcome your contribution we can't win the fight without your help and yhe help of people of all races and religions.
As much as I disagree with the positions of the BMP, of which here in America I know very little, can't we find a way without agreeing with it's exclusionary white character, to validate it's national and cultural pride.
There are nationalist all over the world, I don't agree with their excessive and exclusionary stances, but out of this excessive pride in ones race or culture, there is some truth and some will to fight Islam.
We must separate, pride in ones culture from fear and rejection of others.
Why can't we respect England's or any other place's native culture at the same time embrace those that emigrated and integrated into their host countries.
I don't feel that every country and every place has to be a multicultural melting pot.
Vikrant_Camberleykar, when I lived in India I realized that I would never be totally accepted as Indian, but this didn't lower my respect for the richness of it's culture and I didn't reproach any of my Hindu friends for feelings of national and cultural pride, even when it bordered on excess.
One the reasons we are all in this struggle with Islam is to preserve what makes us British, or Dutch or German or India or Thai.
Long live our differences, it is a source of our strength and we need all the strength we have to survive and win.
Posted by: thecid at October 9, 2005 1:39 AM
"Anyways as far as i take you guys are never gonna regard me as true Brit so whats the point in engaging u in a debate..."
That's right. Sorry Vikrant, but I'm glad you've understood your "dhimmi" status when in white countries. I hope you realize that you aren't British, and you never will be, quite simply because you're Indian. And someone who copped out of fixing problems in your own country and came running away to England to indulge in the luxurious lifestyle the British have created through sheer hard work (and other things not PC on this website).
I too am an Indian, btw. But your sycophantic posts here make me sick. I signed on just to post this. Grow a spine, and don't
rant about Muslims here to "fit in" with the whites, most of whom hold us in contempt, for God's sake. Don't try to act like the Briton you'll never be considered to be. Frankly, it's embarrassing.
Our India has her own journey and her own experiences. And we _will_ overcome both the Arab threat disguised as a religion, as well as other problems in our own way. It's only been 50 years, and look at how far we've come, and that inspite of our post-colonial experimenting with socialism. So come home, and strive to fix this your own country, not luxuriate in a readymade hostile one. Your India needs people like you to remake it into the scientific and philosophical mecca that it was in the past. I speak from experience, so believe me when I say that the joy and satisfaction from this will far outweigh any superficial "easy life" you will have in that cold dreary place where people don't want a Third-Worlder like you around.
If it's already too late to move back, I understand and deeply sympathize. But at the minimum, please don't make your second-classness evident by posting here calling yourself a Briton when you're clearly not considered to be one. To the world, you're an Indian with a British passport (a piece of parchment), whatever else you or reactionary replies here convince you of. You're the only pretend-Briton Indian here who's doing this. Please stop.
at October 9, 2005 3:34 AM
Vikrant_Camberleykar
Please dont club Asians with Moslems..
Unfortunately for you the PC world you live in has already done that.
For us, on the outside looking in, the crimes that were commited by essentially hoodlums of the Muslim faith were portrayed by the British media as being carried out by Asian Gangs.
The one of the Scottish teengaer who was stabbed and then burned to death being a case in point.
The hypocritical nature of the society you live in has lumped you together with those who seek to destroy it by applying racial stereotypes while trumpeting how morally upstanding their multicultural society is by not naming names!
In a manner of speaking you find yourself in the same boat as the Jews, who even after hundreds of years of faithful service to 'their' country, are derided and scorned by large segments of the population.
Posted by: Cynic at October 9, 2005 7:27 AM
kufr , You can not build India in isolation, the world must and will interact as part of a global economy. I think a strong, vibrant, democratic and prosperous India is a good thing for the world and a necessity if we are going to defeat Islam and give the Muslim world a chance to transform themselves into peaceful neighbors.
I can admire and respect your desire to return to India and build a better life, but the tone of anger and dirision of the West can only help to hold those asperations back.
You can not build, the India you desire on foundations of hate.
You must build it on respect for others.
I wish you luck in building your India and hope that the America will pay a positive role out of shared soliderity facing the common enemy of Islam.
Do not lose sight of the fact that the whole world is in this togehter.
Kufr, the West has come a long way since it's colonial period, to it's credit, it has learned to respect the good in other cultures and accept many immigrants from all over. I'm of Spanish origin... take pride in the past of my ancestors. the good and the bad, yet have lived in New York for over 30 years, among immigrants from many different countries and grown to appriciate the openess and acceptance of me and my family. I still have one foot somewhere else, but my kids can think of no other place to live then America.
Vikrant_Camberleykar, you will have greater acceptance and respect for who you are in Britian and America then in any other place on this planet.
This site brings together people from all over the world and from many countries, in the fight against Islam.
I for one welcome your participation.
at October 9, 2005 11:23 AM
thecid, not sure where you got "derision, hatred and anger" towards the West from. Of course, I want India to re-engage with the world. Here's a quote by Gandhi to convey what I'm trying to say:
"I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any. I refuse to live in other people's houses as an interloper, a beggar or a slave." - Mohandas Gandhi
Even better, I'll summarize my post in one admittedly tribalist poem, by a British author, both for Vikrant's sake and to put your concerns at ease:
Breathes there the man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burned,
As home his footsteps he hath turned
From wandering on a foreign strand?
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim,
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, double dying, shall go down
To the vile dust from whence he sprung
Unwept, unhonored, and unsung.
-- Sir Walter Scott,
"Breathes There the Man"
at October 9, 2005 1:07 PM
ahh... did i kick up a storm here? Ahh.. sorry. I was refering to BNP guys... Native Britons are probably the most accepting and accomodating people ever. As for racism.. Indians are amongst the most racist people ever. Views of an average Indian regarding Afro-Carribeans and they're stereotypes of whites can be termed racist. Indians wont marry outside they're immediate gene pool letalone outside their race.
@kufr: excuse me... i didnt run away from India's problems.. nor am i trying to "fit in". I'm a third generation. Given a chance i'd always have liked to stay with my own people. For world i'm Indian but for you i'll be that stupid, submissive Marathi. Have you ever realised how insesitive and ignorant the Hindis are about non-Hindis. Take your movies for example, Marathi is always going to be some stupid bum or a maid, Gujarathi is always goin to be a miserly trader and Sikh, the Indian version of dumb blonde. While Maharshtra and Gujarat almost entirely bankroll the New Delhi's coffers, the center of political power is firmly situated in the Hindi heartland. No wonder India has such a dhimmi govt. since the Muslim infested backward cesspools of Bihar and UP collectively have 1/3rd resprentation in parliament. For all our services to protecting India from Muslims, and ensuring that it retains its Hindu character, NCERT has reduced Marathas to a mere footnote in History books. Not too longago, Nehru went about describing us a "barbaric looters" and our greatest hero Shivaji as "communalist". The fact that the demand for the state of Maharashtra wasnt granted in 1955 States Reorganisation act, is graling example of Hindi insensitivity. Only after a violent campaign, was Mahrashtra created in 1961. I've seen firsthand the deep feelings of alienation amongst Marathis in "meltingpot" Mumbai. It is only place on earth where natives had to adopt language and culture of the migrants (O.. yess i cant criticise those 10 million migrants, since i'm an immigrant meself.. albiet that i dont force locals to speak Marathi and nor do i squat on public land and insist that government give me proper houses). Marathis are looked down upon, their language and their Hindi accent ridiculed in their own land. Anyways.. lets not wash our dirty linen in public... With all our faults, your afterall my brothers...
Lastly I dont get it why are you so vitriolic against the diapora. If it wasnt for the 30 million "traitors" India wont have those fantastic foreign exchange reserves . Big chunk of FDI in India comes from the diapora. Who else has patientance to deal with ur Babudom. Most of the Indian immigrants to Britain came here in the dark days of License Raj. You cant blame them.
P.S Sorry for hurting your misplaced sense of nationalism and Indianess.
at October 10, 2005 7:35 AM
Vikrant, if you're third-generation, I take back all I said.
I've also been part of the diaspora and bear them no illwill at all.
Regarding your response, another quote: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". In other words, for Indians who emigrated (not you), the correct sentence is not "ur Babudom", but our Babudom. That's where the improvement in Indian govt will begin.
Peace.
Posted by: kufr at October 10, 2005 11:58 AM
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